Alex and Bobby banter about the best moments in baseball Twitter history, then briefly check in on Mike Trout’s commisionership before discussing Chris Woodward’s explicitly apolitical comments on the wake of Uvalde, as well as Ron DeSantis pulling funding for a new Rays player development complex. Then they answer listener questions about baseball’s true golden age and whether lineup construction really makes a difference.
Links:
How the Rangers responded to the Uvalde tragedy
Ron DeSantis vetoes funding for new Rays training facility
Songs featured in this episode:
Shonen Knife — “Top of the World” • Bee Gees — “I Started A Joke” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and, and, and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about? That’s amazing! That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, we’re gonna start the podcast this week with a very important question. Very, very important. And that question is, should the Dodgers be disqualified from the 2022 postseason and World Series? Because they tried to put a position player into pitch with only a five run lead, which is against the rules.
ALEX: To be fair, it’s asking a lot of Dave Roberts. And frankly, the umpires to know the, the rules.
BOBBY: No, I’m back in the blue here. The umps did know the rules. As soon as they tried to pull that move, the ups knew the rule–
ALEX: That’s–
BOBBY: –Come on!
ALEX: That’s true. But Dave Roberts, I think got in their heads, right? And said I, can you please, can you please look into this for us, right? Run it up the, run it up the ladder to the, to the big man upstairs.
BOBBY: The big man upstairs being Rob? Rob Manfred?
ALEX: Right. Do you think he’s the one who is fielding all of, all of the calls?
BOBBY: Yes, I do think he is the one fielding all the calls. No, I don’t want to talk about this. This is not the important question that I was talking about. I’m just, that was wishful thinking, trying to get the Dodgers disqualified from the 2022 postseason. Because if that were the case, maybe the the Mets would be the favorite. But–
ALEX: There’s an ulterior motive there.
BOBBY: Currently they’re not because the Dodgers are very good. I know the, the important question we’re starting this podcast out with is one that came from a listener, in our Slack. This question came from Becca, as many of the good questions that we receive do. It is, “What was the best moment in baseball Twitter history?” We’ve talked around this question on the podcast a couple times. We’ve brought up a few of our favorites. But I figured it’d be a fun and chaotic way to start this episode. So that’s the mood I’m in.
ALEX: The, the kind of question perfectly tailored to us, to this environment, to extremely online people.
BOBBY: I’m not online. No, nope, nope. I hire someone to do all my tweets. It’s not me.
ALEX: Tipping Pitches ghostwriter?
BOBBY: Yep. It’s you, you do my personal account and Tipping Pitches tweets. So long running bit. I think there are some really obvious ones here. The first one that jumps to mind is the Nick Castellanos deep to left field mid apology by Thom Brennaman.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That was, for a long time, the platonic ideal of what baseball Twitter could do.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And has since become a, a very long lasting, that meme has legs. It obviously got blown up and was chronicled by copypasta Hall of Famer, Jen Mack Ramos. By creating a bot that would respond to people anytime they tweeted deep to left field and tagged that bot. But that, that, I don’t know, that, that was great. But that feels like too obvious of an answer.
ALEX: It is too obvious of an answer. I mean that the, tough part with this is I don’t remember most things, just generally, generally speaking. That was the first one that jumped to mind because it’s the perfect kind of amalgamation of absurdity and repulsiveness. And feels like it, it kind of encapsulated the, the moment that baseball is in right now, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Well, I mean, I mean, obviously we’re, you know, we’re talking about the, the Thom Brennaman on-air apology for, for uttering an anti-gay slur on, on a hot mic. And obviously calling a Nick Castellanos’ home run. In the middle of that apology. And–
BOBBY: I like that you’re doing like the full context for the deep to left field as if there’s anyone listening to this podcast that doesn’t know. But thank you, journalist Alex.
ALEX: Well, I, I think it’s important to just note all the moving parts here, right?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: This was not, this was not one kind of isolated moment that, that was enacted by, by a singular actor, right? There’s, there’s a lot to unpack there, there’s a lot to unpack there. You can go in so many different directions. But I think what I appreciate about it most is that Castellanos himself has only fed the legend–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –right? Of, of his homerun prowess by proceeding to swat dingers in other are less than ideal scenarios.
BOBBY: See, but that doesn’t count though. Because that’s, that means that that’s just, that’s no longer a moment in Twitter history. That, but that, but this, the, the, deep left field is clearly the moment that set all of those other events in motion. It’s like the Big Bang–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –what Nick Castellanos became.
ALEX: Right, exactly. So I think it’s important to note that this, this really was the, the catalyst for, for what would come.
BOBBY: Right. Some other suggestions that I saw in our Slack where when the White Sox memorialized is still living Eloy Jimenez with us forever and always. I think was the caption to their tweet about him going out with a torn pectoral muscle. And then, this one was one of the ones that immediately came to my head, which was the Carlos Beltran’s fake, niece burner account. After the sign stealing scandal, and someone who proclaim themselves to be Carlos Beltran’s niece. Who turned out not to be Carlos Beltran’s niece, said that they had all this inside knowledge about whether Beltran would be fired by the Mets. And it, it was like it only lasted for like 16 hours–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –before we realized that it wasn’t true.
ALEX: But, but–
BOBBY: And then there was a real resolution to the Beltran situation with the Mets which was that they just, they fired him. Regardless of what, you know, Carlos Beltran’s niece actually did or did not know.
ALEX: Right. Well, that notably really fed the, the notion that the Astros were in fact using buzzers, right? That was a, there was–
BOBBY: [6:34]
ALEX: –Carlos Beltran’s niece had inside knowledge that yes, Jose Altuve actually was wearing a, a buzzer. And that really captivated people for a, a long time, right? It kind of took a while for that to really get disproven fully.
BOBBY: When you think back on that. It’s really more of an indictment of us than the fake niece.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: That we were, we were so easily fooled and so willing to run with this like locked Twitter account–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –that had no proof that they were Carlos Beltran’s niece at all. And then, as we were discussing this before the podcast, you brought up a really great one. Which happened just very recently. And that was Bob Nightengale’s no one is moving as the two sides are moving ever so closer.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Mid lockout, as we thought we were going to get a CBA at the 11th hour. And Bob Nightengale tweeted something so cryptic, that made no sense to anybody at all and clearly was a typo. But ultimately came out sounding like, you know, Langston Hughes style peaceful poetry. [7:39] sweet to the point really cuts to the core of humanity. No one is moving as the two sides are moving ever so closer.
ALEX: The thing about this question is that you can kind of break it down in a couple different ways, right? So there are moments that happen in the baseball world that are perfectly suited to, like the conversation on fire on baseball, Twitter, right? And then there are the, the moments like the Bob Nightengale tweet. Which are people in the baseball world who through no intention of their own traded something that would, that would resonate and, and last for a generation, right? Be the defining–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –literary moment of, of the baseball year.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm. I still don’t think that that was the greatest moment to be on baseball Twitter, though. Because there was a lot of like, angst online–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –at that time. That’s why I wrote two other moments that were, like you said, to fit into that category of things that actually happened in baseball. It’s two game, two World Series games and back to back years. 2017 World Series, game five. Was a wonderful time to be on baseball Twitter, because everyone’s–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –heads were exploding, everybody’s brains were melting out of their ears. That was the game that I think finished, you know, 13, 12 or something insane like that. And there was a ton of home runs started with Clayton Kershaw getting knocked out and Houston. We obviously know now that there was some sign stealing going on during that series. But I think that game specifically had more to do with the extremely juiced ball and the extremely short porch in Houston. And it completely broke our brands. And then 2018 World Series, game three, which was the 18 innings game, between the Red Sox and the Dodgers. There are some real going through it tweets happening–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –on the timeline. There’s nothing specific that I remember, but people having to stay up until 4 am Eastern to cover that game or watch that game. I fortunately was on the West Coast at that time, but still, it was, it was pretty late.
ALEX: Yup!
BOBBY: I left work, listen to the game on the radio, got dinner. Watch the game on TV at dinner and then got home. Which was about a three hour process and there was still like another hour and a half of that game.
ALEX: Yeah, weird baseball is fodder enough for baseball Twitter, right? But weird playoff baseball–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –is just like, all bets are off. No holds barred. Any, anything goes past, past midnight. Once the, once the clock strikes 12.
BOBBY: I kind of wish I was more on baseball Twitter, for the Jose Batista home run. I was not, we obviously didn’t have Tipping Pitches yet then.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: But I wonder how we would have reacted or how our sort of Twitter circle would have felt in that moment. That was a more of a, just a you and me in real life responding to that.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Not quite a baseball Twitter moment. Alright, what else do you have? Those, that’s my list.
ALEX: So I mean, you mentioned the, the Astros and, and they’re, that the 2017 game that broke all of our brains. I, in that same lineage, the slow unraveling of the trash can banging on Twitter was something to behold. In part because these were not stories that were coming from Major League Baseball.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: That were not even necessarily coming directly from top sources with the league, right? Or, or the, the sports premier journalists. It was largely also to online people who had too much video to, to or had too much time to look through videos.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I don’t know if it’s a, if it’s a band topic to say the words John Boyd on this podcast. They, you may blip it out, I don’t know. But, but really all of that and–
BOBBY: John Boyd was on his Tipping Pitches shit this weekend.
ALEX: He, he was, yeah.
BOBBY: Helping or hurting our SEO? I don’t really know.
ALEX: But all of that really played out on Twitter, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And then obviously, there was like, there was an athletic article that really kind of went in deep and tried to really back up those claims. But that was unlike anything I’ve, I’ve seen, right? Because it was effectively a fan finding out what would be the defining scandal in the league in the coming years. And I don’t think any one of us could have predicted that coming.
BOBBY: Yeah. And then there was the Astros fan afterwards, who used the program that listened to the audio to automatically identify–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –all of the times and all of the instances after it was discovered that the banging was indicative. And yeah, that was I don’t know if that was a good time to be on baseball Twitter.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: It was certainly you would put that in the pantheon of baseball Twitter moments. Because it proved how weirdly powerful baseball Twitter is.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And, and how there are certain elements of baseball, of baseball Twitter that go beyond what baseball media can do.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Just because you know, the old cliche of you watch your team closer than any reporter, any national reporter ever has the time to watch, watch your team. And because of that, it was a Yankees fan who ultimately discovered the team that was cheating against the Yankees.
ALEX: Yep.
BOBBY: It was, that was a ridiculous time. I’ve never gone back and listened to any of our stuff from that time period. Because I’m sure we didn’t handle it like, I’m sure we weren’t revelatory or anything like that. But it was a weird time to be a baseball fan, that’s for sure.
ALEX: Yeah, absolutely. Well, just a, just a couple other ones. I’m surprised this did not come up on your list. Because you will remember in 2016, this is in late May. The, the New York Metropolitans playing the Los Angeles Dodgers. Chase Utley had in, in the playoffs–
BOBBY: Oh, yeah.
ALEX: –playoffs the prior year issue to take out slide that, that many Mets fans and fans around baseball took issue with, right?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: So in that game in, in 2016, Noah Syndergaard throws a pitch behind Chase Utley is immediately tossed from the game, right? And there’s kind of a dust–
BOBBY: Immediately know, immediately know. The umpire, immediately know.
ALEX: There’s a, there’s a practice on the field, so to speak, right? Syndergaard is not, is not happy with, with the call. Terry Collins comes out is not happy with the call and–
BOBBY: Syndergaard some of the worst acting of all time in that clip.
ALEX: Exactly–
BOBBY: When the umpires, umpire comes over, he’s like, nope, you can’t do that. And syndergaard is like, “What I’m just trying to throw a pitch!”
ALEX: Right. He kind of like–
BOBBY: He just can’t do what? Throw a pitch?
ALEX: Throws his hands up, like shrugging, like, wuhhh!
BOBBY: So bad.
ALEX: It was really bad. But it was not until two years later that we actually got the full lowdown of, of what unfolded on the field, right?
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: Notably, Terry Collins, ripping Tom Hallion and a new one and forever etching into our minds the phrase our asses are in the jackpot.
BOBBY: Yep. This was, this really was a wonderful moment.
ALEX: I like, I remember exactly where I was when, when the video came out like–
BOBBY: I still don’t, I still never got a valid explanation for why or how this audio leaked? Or why this umpire was mic’d up–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –in this moment. Are umpires always mic’d up? Or they doing a documentary on Tom Hallion’s life? It just doesn’t make any sense because Hallion was the one who was mic’d up. Because you could only hear as players were approaching him to talk. Nobody else on the field was mic’d up. And you can only hear Collins who had been arguing with the home plate umpire who tossed him. Hallion was the crew chief, he was in the field. You can only hear Collins, you can only hear Collins once Hallion intercepts him.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: But just steps in front of him, he’s like he says, you take him! Yep, our assets are at the jackpot now. This one I do feel like we, we effectively chronicle it at the time, I remember this.
ALEX: I think so, yeah.
BOBBY: Is that all of them? Do you have any more on your list?
ALEX: One other thing that, that kind of crossed my mind. And this is years ago, really at this point. So it’s hard for me to actually visualize how exactly baseball Twitter interacted with it. Although I know it, it blew everything up at the time. And that was the story about Melky Cabrera and his agent, creating a fake website in order to cover for his PED usage, right? Just backed into a corner, man just started swinging.
BOBBY: This is a great segment that we should actually do in the future, is moments that you wish we had baseball Twitter for.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Moments throughout baseball history. The 10 moments you wish we could transplant baseball Twitter back to.
ALEX: Yeah, yeah. Well, this is back in 2012. Right and yeah, baseball Twitter is kind of, in–
BOBBY: Nascent.
ALEX: –in its nascent days, it’s early days. That we’re actually coming up, I believe, on the, on the 10-year anniversary of that moment. So maybe we’ll, maybe we’ll have to dive deep into that later this year. But it was just the first perfect example of the hubris of Major League Baseball players. And I don’t know, it really stuck with me. It really resonated. I admire Melky Cabrera’s commitment to not getting caught man.
BOBBY: I particularly love it because he’s just like, you know what I have? A Gmail and I can sign up for a WordPress.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: This is how I’m gonna do it.
ALEX: It was 1 am he was, he had not had that much sleep.
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: He was like, you know what? I’m just going to, I’m going to try something.
BOBBY: I’m going to start a blog.
ALEX: I’m going to start- and then we can use this.
BOBBY: Yep!
ALEX: It might help. Alright, two, two last ones real quick.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: These are not moments that unfolded on baseball Twitter, but to me they are defining moments.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: The first one is when Brandon McCarthy, the retired pitcher, tweeted, “It’s ridiculous. But when I started against the Mets, I’m very aware that Jerry Seinfeld’s mood is in my hands. Sometimes baseball players are good at Twitter.
BOBBY: He was actually the G.O.A.T. poster.
ALEX: Yes, he really well.
BOBBY: I mean, he still is, he’s not playing anymore. So he’s not relevant. I don’t even know if he’s still on Twitter or still, still tweeting. But he was the G.O.A.T. Twitter.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Wow, wow, still playing.
ALEX: Right. I mean, this is this is a man who ended his career with 69 wins and a 4.20 ERA. Like, come on! You don’t, you don’t just become a shit poster, right? The–
BOBBY: You’re born like the band name.
ALEX: You’re born- exactly. It was always gonna end up this way.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: All right, last moment. And it’s one that once again has existed for almost a decade at this point. And it was, it was three words. I guess technically four, if you include the handle, tweeted by one Ken Rosenthal, on March 8, 2013. And he replied, to Twitter user, Mr. Sugar Penis. With those three fateful words in all caps, read the column.
BOBBY: In many ways this tweet came to define an entire era of media.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: If you want to be really dramatic with it. This tweet is basically the embodiment of pivot to video. Because people weren’t reading the columns.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: So they were like, oh, maybe we have to make videos now. Because in terms of responsibility for the pivot to video, it goes Mark Zuckerberg. Then Mr. Sugar Penis.
ALEX: Right. Like this was are–
BOBBY: Right on his heels.
ALEX: –this was our collapse of Napster, you know.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: That, that heralded the new age of streaming. Like, like this was.
BOBBY: We should have known.
ALEX: We really, we really should have known.
BOBBY: And Ken Rosen- Ken Rosenthal is still fighting the good fight for the written word. Written word gotten fired from MLB Network.
ALEX: So true. The way I wish I could read this column. Like I don’t know what the column was.
BOBBY: We probably find it, right?
ALEX: Possibly, but like the tweet itself is not up. So there’s no contact.
BOBBY: I know, it coward.
ALEX: I, yeah.
BOBBY: Coward.
ALEX: And even Rosenthal at this point, I believe is, is in on the bid. He’s–
BOBBY: Yeah, he’s–
ALEX: –referenced it before.
BOBBY: Exactly. If only Rob Manfred had been Mr. Sugar Penis not read the Ken Rosenthal column. Still begin that $2 million a year.
ALEX: Do we think he’s a burner? Rob Manfred has a Twitter–
BOBBY: Rob?
ALEX: –right?
BOBBY: Oooh, this is an excellent question. Thank you for asking. I think he does not have a burner, because he’s not native enough to Twitter.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And the way that at least I’ve observed his brain to work. Doesn’t seem like it would work on Twitter. But he definitely has a Facebook, you know, and it’s like just pictures of his family.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And it’s, it would actually be kind of wholesome if you friended him on Facebook and–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –watch it and be like, well, Rob’s a person. But I think that he probably has people at the MLB Commissioner’s Office, either physically printing tweets out to him, emailing them–
ALEX: Like Trump, like Trump style?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Like he was [21:32]–
BOBBY: Emailing them to him.
ALEX: –tweets on his desk.
BOBBY: Or basically like synthesizing what’s going on on Twitter, like, what’s the current on Twitter today?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And then he has, you know, he reads that while he’s getting a car driving him around Manhattan. Because he seems very insecure about things that peo- like about discussion points about baseball on Twitter.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: It seems like he knows what they are but doesn’t really, you know, live in them.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: If that makes sense.
ALEX: He doesn’t necessarily want to engage but he wants to say, he but he wants to see what people are saying about him. And–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –sometimes somewhat asinine. moves that he makes.
BOBBY: The real question is does, does Rob Manfred have a Reddit burner account?
ALEX: He’s getting dragged into discussion.
BOBBY: I can [22:22]–
ALEX: Whether Luis Severino actually is like an A’s or not like–
BOBBY: I could weirdly see him doing better on Reddit than Twitter.
ALEX: Yeah, well, it’s certainly encourages open debate, spirited–
BOBBY: RIght.
ALEX: –debate.
BOBBY: And as a lawyer, a very successful debate lawyer.
ALEX: I’m certain Rob Manfred would thrive in that environment.
BOBBY: Okay. Those are some great moments in baseball Twitter history. There is no right answer, and no wrong answer to this question. Because everybody’s experience on Twitter is different. But if you have moments that we left out, please feel free to let us know. Reply to, you know, reply to us on Twitter. Slack ’em in our episode discussion channel. Email us, tippingpitchespod, whatever you want to do. Call in to our voicemail, 785-422-5881. And we’ll play your favorite moment in baseball Twitter history next week on the pod. We are going to talk about, we’re going to follow up on last week’s story about Gabe Kapler. And his National Anthem protest. We are going to talk about Ron DeSantis. That’s tough, I mean, it’s tough. It’s here written on my page. But I still don’t really know why. But we’re gonna talk about Ron DeSantis. And then we’re going to answer a couple listener questions to round it out this week. Before we do all of that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I am Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[23:46]
[Music Theme]
ALEX: Before we dive into all of these things, I’m, I’m wondering, I’d like to get like to get your perspective. When–
BOBBY: All right.
ALEX: –when–
BOBBY: So we’re entering the marketplace of ideas here. Is that what we’re doing?
ALEX: Exactly. Yes.
BOBBY: AIl right. I’m opening my mind.
ALEX: Was Mike Trout is common about how every Commissioner he knows gets booed. Was that a direct dig at Rob Manfred, do you think?
BOBBY: See, I read it the opposite way. Like it’s a tough job kind of situation.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Nobody, nobody knows what it takes to be a Commissioner. He, he was sort of like–
ALEX: It was very diplomatic response.
BOBBY: Right, exactly. Every Commissioner he knows gets booed. Good or bad, you know? Adam Silver gets booed.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Fucking, I’m trying to think of another Commissioner that anybody even remotely likes gets booed. I don’t know. No, I thought, I don’t think Mike Trout would be taking swipes at Rob Manford. Though, if you’ll recall, during CBA negotiations, Mike Trout was getting kind of spicy.
ALEX: He was.
BOBBY: He was gonna little spicy–
ALEX: He’s coming out of his shell a little bit.
BOBBY: Also, did you see, this now we’re totally down the, the rabbit hole here. But did you see Trout and Michael Lorenzen getting in each other’s faces a little bit in the dugout.
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: During the Angels recent, long losing streak that they’re on right now. There was like, you know, 30 games in a row. It wasn’t really that he did. They were, I think expressing differing opinions. But no yelling–
ALEX: Once again, market- marketplace ideas, etc.
BOBBY: Right exactly. Jordan Peterson was off to the side, about to step in and start crying.
ALEX: The real intellectual darkweb.
BOBBY: Exactly. Mike Trout. And Joe Maddon, speaking of their intellectual darkweb. Joe Maddon–
ALEX: [25:41]
BOBBY: –stepped in between them, and ended it. But I don’t think I’ve ever seen Mike Trout argue with a teammate.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I don’t know, man. He’s, he’s in the midst of the longest [25:50] of his career right now. The Angels have lost 10 straight, I believe. And maybe he’s pivoting to firebrand.
ALEX: It’s possible that he took the recent allegations of corruptions, around Angel Stadium to heart too.
BOBBY: Ohh, ohh. I thought you’re gonna say the recent allegation of corruption of, of his Fantasy Football League. That he is–
ALEX: Well, well that is well.
BOBBY: –over an anarchist state.
ALEX: He’s being attacked from all sides, right?
BOBBY: Exactly.
ALEX: I his, his home field is–
BOBBY: Mike Trout reactionary pivot starts now.
ALEX: He said, you know what? I hope it rains.
BOBBY: You, you want more than whether you got it? Okay?
ALEX: Let’s talk dew point, baby.
BOBBY: I don’t even remember how we started talking about this.
ALEX: I, I just started, I just brought it up.
BOBBY: About his Commissionership?
ALEX: Commissionership. Which I, again, I’m I don’t even know how he ended up in that position. He doesn’t seem like the kind of person who is. He doesn’t seem like the kind of person who would be really like aggressive about like, wanting to manage–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –a, a league or something like that. But then again, I mean, he is kind of like a numbers like nerd. And he’s very into like, you know, optimization, right of himself, his swing himself as a player, that sort of thing. So it’s possible, he was just like, look, guys–
BOBBY: I think he’s just the biggest football fan.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Based on the fact that he goes to all the Eagles games, when he can. And he, he, he might have gotten elected Commissioner, though. Because he alluded to the fact that he would step down as Commissioner and the league will go on.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Now, there’s probably going to be a jockeying for power between Joc Pederson and Tommy Pham.
ALEX: Right, this is where the the allegiances start to appear, right? This is a–
BOBBY: This is just like–
ALEX: I mean, this is–
BOBBY: –in the red split, you know.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like the Russian ref [28:00]
ALEX: This is a codified cout, it for being quite honest.
BOBBY: This segment already makes no sense to anybody who doesn’t give a shit about the Joc Pederson, a Tommy Pham thing. Which I sort of count myself of like those people. But anyway. Alex, can we talk about your newsletter?
ALEX: Sure.
BOBBY: You wrote it.
ALEX: It is.
BOBBY: Nice job! [28:20] a round of applause. Woooo! You wrote something, first–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –time in how long?
ALEX: Are we, we’re not counting tweets.
BOBBY: Nope. Although you don’t write very many of those anymore, either.
ALEX: No, that’s true. No–
BOBBY: Unless you’re arguing with members of baseball media.
ALEX: Yeah, pretty much. No, it’s been a while. It’s been a couple years at least. Felt good to, to break out the old pen and paper.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: The old microchip and keyboard.
BOBBY: And once again, enter the marketplace of ideas. You wrote a, a newsletter for the Tipping Pitches, Patreon newsletter. The newsletter is a place where we try stuff out and go a little bit more in depth on ideas that we might talk about on the podcast, or we might not have space to talk about on the podcast. It’s a place where we can solicit feedback from listeners. And I think test stuff out for the future of the podcast. So it’s a great place if you really liked the show. And you are able to sign up for the Patreon and get that newsletter. I think it’s a cool supplementary thing to this, to these episodes that we do every week. And the reason I wanted to start by talking about it is because you wrote a really interesting piece I thought for the newsletter about the Gabe Kapler protest. But not, not only the fact that he sort of backed out of the full extent of protesting the National Anthem, by not doing it on Memorial Day, and standing with his hand over his heart for God Bless America during the seventh inning. Which as we discussed last week, you know, shares a lot of sentiments with the National Anthem in many ways it’s more direct than the National Anthem even is. But all so Chris Woodward, the Rangers Managers response to the idea that a manager might be protesting the National Anthem. And Chris Woodward shut that down. And said that he essentially wanted to stick to sports. And, and what that means, what that means in our current climate of professional sports in America. Because even if, I think reasonable people could, could look at each other and say, I don’t think of myself as a very politically motivated person. And therefore, when I’m watching a baseball game, I don’t exactly want political things to be in my face. I think, in a vacuum, that conversation could exist amongst 60 something year old white guys, as they’re watching a game together on a Sunday, let’s say. However, I think then, when politics does appear in sports, I think we miss appropriate the quote, unquote, “blame”? If you don’t want that we misappropriate the blame for that, in our culture. Where it’s not really like Gabe Kapler sat down and was like, you know, what I want to bring to the table? Politics and sports. And it’s not like Colin Kaepernick sat down and was like, I want to make sports a political realm. It’s the existence of big business, and then the crossover from big business directly into politics. And I thought it was clever, and crushing the way you pointed out that Lockheed Martin has a gigantic ad in centerfield in the middle of the Rangers game, in the same game that Chris Woodward, right after that said that he didn’t want politics. Didn’t want to have an opinion on politics, in sports, or in baseball. It’s like, well, so then if I asked you about the Lockheed Martin ad, is that on the table? Like, what are your thoughts on them as a company? Because it’s, it’s right there. It’s on the television broadcast. So who really made the decision to get quote, unquote, “political”? And I don’t know, I just don’t think that we, of course, most people are bad faith. Most people are not having that conversation in a vacuum. Most people are like, I don’t want politics in my sports, because I don’t want to have to deal with problems in society. Not because they actually want to have things separated. They just don’t want to deal with it in any part of their lives. But I don’t know, I feel like certain people get branded as politically radical members of the sports world, when I kind of feel like it’s, it’s radically conservative not to talk about these things in sports at this point in our world, with the way that capitalism has infiltrated professional sports.
ALEX: Yeah, I mean, there’s this notion that you can be apolitical when it comes to conversations around gun violence, or LGBTQ representation in the, in the sport or anything like that, right? Like that, it’s possible to keep these issues separate. And that suggests that the sport is not already a platform for political ideas, maybe more nefarious ones, right? And ones that maybe aren’t as in your face. But, but when you play a song, about how much you love America, in the, in the seventh inning stretch, right? And ask everyone to stand up and sing along, like that’s a, that’s inherently political. And there’s, there’s this misconception that it’s possible to bow out from the conversation, right? Even when that in itself is a political choice, right? The status quo is political. And so I think there’s room to, to say, you know, I’m not well-versed on this topic. I, you know, I, I think it’s probably mistake to expect everyone to come out with a Steve Kerr esque monologue, right? About gun violence. It’d be nice. It’d be nice if we were at this space where–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –everyone had somewhat developed coherent ideas on the state of the culture and could, could talk about them. But again, I, I also don’t necessarily want that, right? Like I’m sure many baseball players have their thoughts. And I don’t necessarily need to see them all litigated out in the open. But–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –but I think to pretend that you can not have these discussions and just avoid the, the idea of politics all together is it’s a myth. That’s not possible.
BOBBY: I think it’s true than ever in baseball too. Because I guess this has always been the case. But it’s, it’s never been so plain how interested in amassing political influence the ownership side is. And whether that comes in the form of selling an ad to Lockheed Martin so that you can keep a good relationship with the United States military, which is absurd. Or whether that comes in the form of the Ricketts who members of their ownership literally hold political office with the Republican Party. So I don’t know, I don’t know why we have to pretend, or how long we’re gonna pretend like this is not a political realm of society baseball is, it is. If you want to get rid of all political influence in baseball, it’s gonna look a lot different. It’s gonna look like, I don’t know, socialist? Like, if you want to take the money making profit seeking element out of baseball to get rid of politics, then by all means, let’s do it. But I don’t know, we’re not, we’re decades away from that. So in the meantime, in the meantime, I honestly find it insulting to, to suggest that baseball is not political, and therefore you don’t need to have an opinion on it. You can say, you don’t, you’re not comfortable sharing your opinion on it, because you don’t feel like a person who either has been affected personally enough by this or knows enough about it to speak intelligently and answer questions about it. So that you can, you know, spread important thoughts about gun violence in America. That would be okay, as you said. But it just feels like a cop out. And it’s a cop out that feels out of time. Like if you said this in 2010, all right. But like, it’s 12 years later, you know, we’re, we’re three presidencies removed from Sandy Hook. I don’t know. And, and for, for the manager of the Rangers, the team that is closest to where this incredible tragedy happened, it just it feels even more out of touch, frankly.
ALEX: Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I won’t say I’m surprised, kind of by, by not only Woodward’s response, but kind of the response across the league, right teams kind of took varying approaches with how they were going to address gun violence. And, and Woodward himself really, more just feels like an appropriate kind of poster boy for baseball’s lack of literacy when it comes to–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –meeting the moment, right? Actually [37:50]
BOBBY: –I don’t think Chris [37:50], acted with malice [37:53]–
ALEX: Right, exactly. No, no.
BOBBY: –I think he was trying to like hurt people.
ALEX: Right. You could have put, you could have put any manager in his place. And he probably would have said the same thing.
BOBBY: Yep. And the ones who don’t are the exceptions that prove the rule?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Steve Kerr.
ALEX: Yeah, exactly.
BOBBY: The Gregg Popovich is.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: The Gabe Kapler’s, I guess. I don’t know. [38:09] in baseball.
ALEX: He is, he is the rule and the exception.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like–
BOBBY: I don’t know what he is. He’s confounding as a person. Anyway, it’s a good newsletter, you should go read it by, I don’t know signing up for our new- for our newsletter? And I’ll, I’ll send you the old one if you want. If you are interested in, in hearing more of what Alex had to say, because I was interested in reading it. Before we move on, and talk about Ron DeSantis, which also weirdly ties back to this [38:42]
ALEX: Politics and sports.
BOBBY: Politics and sports. Really wanting to go as long as possible without ever saying the name Ron DeSantis on this podcast, but I don’t think we’ve ever had to do it. And, you know, today’s the day, we had a good run. Before we move on, I, I will remind people that similar to the newsletter at the top level of our Patreon, you also get access to live Q&As with us once every other month. That first live Q&A is coming up. It is eight days from when this podcast releases, Tuesday, June 14 8 pm Eastern. It’ll be in a zoom and everybody can just pop in. We’re still working on the format of how this is going to work. But you know, it’ll be in a basically an open forum, a hangout session. And there are some other hangout type things in the works at Tipping Pitches. So though they will likely be related to the Patreon, so if you’re interested in doing something like that, a sort of virtual, virtual hangout Q&A type event, then I suggest signing up for the patreon at patreon.com\tippingpitches. Thanks to our new patrons this week, Jonathan, Mica, Peter, and Nicholas. Okay, Alex It’s time to talk about Florida politics. Only as it pertains to the Tampa Bay Rays. This past week, Ron DeSantis. In the wake of the Rays organization and social media partnering with the New York Yankees during their series in late May. Those two social media accounts the Yankees and the Rays, they decided to not tweet about the game and instead tweet about some facts about gun violence in America. Not taking a side, necessarily, but just sharing plain facts about gun violence and how it happens and why it happens in America versus other countries in the world. And because of this move, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, ever an important member of the culture wars, decided that the Tampa Bay Rays appeal for $35 million of public funds for a new stadium in Florida would be denied. I saw a lot of people being like this is an accidentally based moment by Ron DeSantis. Not handing out public buddy for a private corporation to make Stu Sternberg rich. And I guess that’s true. But I did think it was sort of a weird precedent. I don’t know, what is it, what did you make of this story when you saw it come across?
ALEX: I think it’s great to see that defense of free speech is alive and well. As you mentioned, DeSantis, vetoed this bill when it came across the desk after the after Pasco County had successfully lobbied for the inclusion of this money that would, that would act as both like kind of community Sports Center for, for youth wanting to play baseball. And also, that would act as a sort of player development site for the Rays and while DeSantis It seemed as displeased by the, the tweets, as you mentioned, it was really the donation to the organization of every town. Which promotes action to combat gun violence. That was what pushed it over the edge for him, right?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: And, and he said that, you know, companies are, are free to engage or not. Engage with whatever discourse they want. But it’s inappropriate to subsidize political activism of a private, private organization.
BOBBY: That’s an interesting quote.
ALEX: It’s a really interesting quote.
BOBBY: And watching the gears, turning your head for which way you want to pick this quote apart.
ALEX: I mean, this may be a belief that he holds dear and true to his heart. We shouldn’t subsidize companies that take political actions. I wonder how he feels about every other company ever? That just does anything, that just acts within the culture of today?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I don’t even think the Rays don’t need it that much.
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: Like I’m kind of kind of like, really this dude. But I don’t know, it just strikes me as incredibly hollow. Right? It was an opportunity for him as, you know, he’s really trying, you know, potentially vying for Presidential run. Which to say those words, just made me kind of shudder.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But, you know, he’s trying to really stay his claim as the corner of the new Republican Party, right? And so this is him standing up to big business. I get, which I thought they were pro big business? Maybe they’re [43:46]–
BOBBY: This is the thing, this is the thing that is, I don’t know, I think confusing about the state of, as we harken back to our conversation from earlier in this episode. Confusing about the state of political activism from the organizational side of MLB. Because it seems like conservative politicians just want to take swipes at the public face of these teams, but not the actual organization themselves. This is not like a crippling blow to the Rays. But it is interesting in that you don’t usually see financial repercussions towards sports leagues for public facing political comments from members of their organization, or principal owners of their organization. Or social media from their organization. Accusingly see a Tucker Carlson segment or you see a tweet from Ted Cruz. Are you see a fake lawsuit against Major League Baseball by the collected businesses of Atlanta, Georgia. The Greater Atlanta, Georgia area, everybody take a shot if you’re playing the, the Tipping Pitches, woke MLB All-Star Game, drinking game. But I just, I think we’re in a confusing place around what baseball teams roles are in all of this in socio cultural and socio political discourse. Because it’s not like the Rays are a force for good for the Democratic Party.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Or a, or a force for bad for the Republican Party. Or a force for good for the Republican Party at that same, at that same token. Like they are apolitical when it comes to party and they and all MLB teams. Because of the way that MLB has positioned itself politically. They are apolitical when it comes to party, but just pro capital. And so whatever is going to help them financially, they choose to do. But then in their public discourse, you find them, you find most teams, I think choosing to opt for politically correct or this is like a very charged term, or, or at least politically neutral language. And I don’t know, I just find it hard to square teams making donations to things that are quote unquote, “political activism”. And how that aligns or doesn’t align with the entire purpose of their organization to begin with. Which is to make a few people really rich, and to largely not ruffle any political feathers in the process. This is like a slight deviation from that, but not really, as you said, it’s not very much money. And the $35 million is not going to make or break whether the Rays stay in Tampa Bay or not.
ALEX: Right. And DeSantis has, you know, vocally come out as being opposed to using taxpayer money to fund sports projects.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Which, hey, man–
BOBBY: Horseshoe theory,
ALEX: –you’re welcome to, welcome to the party. And, and he said as much in his decision, right? And he probably could have left it there, right? But still use the opportunity to put the Rays on blast for making any sort of statement, right? The way he phrased it suggests that if they had instead donated to the NRA, they still would have gotten their money pulled, right?
BOBBY: Exactly!
ALEX: Because they made a political statement.
BOBBY: But that’s not true.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: That’s definitely not true. And that’s why it’s all artifice. Like this, the entire, this doesn’t mean anything. Like I don’t, it obviously does, in that we’re talking about it, and that the Rays are not getting $35 million from the State of Florida. Like they fucked up that public money bag or whatever. But I don’t think this signifies some staunch shift in cultural acceptance of giving public money to baseball teams.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: This seems like a one off. And it seems like a one off in an anti productive way, you know.
ALEX: Right. I mean, it felt mostly more like a convenient excuse for DeSantis to show everyone just how, you know, antiwoke liberal agenda he is, right? He may have been interested in pulling the funding anyway, right? Because he didn’t think that the taxpayer money should go to it. And this gave him the perfect out to be able to do that, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: He’s able to signify his ambitions as the next generation Republican, by saying look, I’m going to stand up to the agenda to the folks who want us to, to take aside. I, I’d love to know where he’s getting his campaign money from?
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: Right. Probably not any organizations.
BOBBY: No businesses.
ALEX: No, no businesses.
BOBBY: I don’t know. All of this to say, to put a bow on this conversation. I think it’s in the aggregate good that the Rays did this. And that the Yankees did this. I think it has more positive effect than negative effect. Even after you account for I think all of the general situational hypocrisy that comes from an organization like the Rays or like the Yankees, or like any team in Major League Baseball. Thinking that they are some force for political good. Because you know, if you take everything into account, billion dollar corporations are not forces for political good and you should not trust them with progressivism.
ALEX: Yeah, this was not the, the high-minded political stand that a sports team with the amount of power that wields could actually take if it really wanted to. Yeah, as far as political stands go, so relatively neutral one, right? Which–
BOBBY: I mean–
ALEX: –I mean can, is ma- is maybe admirable, right? That they use the opportunity to kind of say, hey, it’s this is not a political moment. Like we, we really just want to kickstart these discussions.
BOBBY: There’s just so much kickstarting of discussions though.
ALEX: Right, I know.
BOBBY: Like how many discussions that we have going on right now?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That sports teams wanted to just have a dialogue about.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: All right. Dialogue still going.
ALEX: Let’s, let’s, yeah, we’ve, we’ve been, we’ve been doing this for a while. What’s, what do you, what do you got? What’s on your PowerPoint slides?
BOBBY: I mean, it feels even particularly resident as we sit here during pride month as all these teams just like change their logos to have the, the rainbow flag and then don’t do a whole lot else. Yes, it’s better than it used to be. And it’s, it’s a communal space for members of the LGBTQ+ community to come to the ballpark and feel more accepted than, than they ever have. But ultimately it’s a PR–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –move.
ALEX: You get this one month.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: One month to feel, to feel cool here.
BOBBY: In, in Major League Baseball, and then the rest of the time back to the old grind.
ALEX: You exist.
BOBBY: We changed the Bank of America logo to be the rainbow flag and in right field, we changed the health insurance company’s logo to be the pride flag. Like it’s, it’s, it’s political theater, I mean. And that’s what that’s what all of this stuff is and, and even DeSantis choosing to do this in this moment. It’s, it’s a form of political theater. And I don’t know, it feels like we should be, we should be past the point in society where like, baseball teams are active cogs in political theater, but we’re not.
ALEX: Yeah, I’d rather than just be honest about it, you know, that’s why, hey, in a sense, I kind of appreciate the Lockheed Martin decal on the, in the Ranger stadium, right? Because you know, where they–
BOBBY: Might take away from this as your pro Lockheed Martin, and you want them to sponsor this podcast, maybe?
ALEX: It’s like the handshake meme, right? Texas Rangers Top Gun.
BOBBY: Yeah!
ALEX: Lockheed Martin propaganda.
BOBBY: I mean, my Top Gun love is as Pro Lockheed Martin as it comes.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know, it’s a, I saw someone say that the new Top Gun is a two and a half hour commercial for Lockheed Martin.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Guess what? It’s the best fucking commercial I’ve ever watched in my life. It’s like sometimes when you’re watching the Super Bowl, I was thinking about this when I came out of the theater. It’s like sometimes when you’re watching the Super Bowl, and you watch a commercial, and you’re like, that was killer commercial.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And then you think about it, and you’re like, that was a killer commercial. They did a really good job of trying to take money from me. The entire existence of the professional marketing and PR structure to prop up capitalism did a good job.
ALEX: RIght.
BOBBY: Just don’t think about it for too long. Just don’t think about it for too long. Okay, let’s take a quick break. And then when we come back a couple listener questions [53:00].
[53:00]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: First question comes from Tom. Tom says, “Here’s a real question for the pod.” Thank you for submitting a real question. And not a, not a fake question, Tom. “What is considering aesthetics watchability, affordability, and enjoyment, the true golden age of baseball?” This is a hard question. Because while some things have improved about baseball over time, some things have declined. And so I think it depends on where you derive your enjoyment of baseball from. I think if you consider yourself a stat head, the golden ages now. And it’s basically like post 2010 to now. And I think that goes the same for if you consider yourself like a, if you consider yourself interested in the optimization and technological advancement of baseball, than the golden ages now. The players are obviously better than they ever have been. And they will continue to get better, they will always be better than they were the previous year. That’s just how, I don’t know, everything works? They’ll always be in terms of like skill perfection better than they, better than they were. That doesn’t mean that every player is better than every other player from the past. That doesn’t mean that the best player now is the best player ever. But in the aggregate, I think players are, are getting better at what you would consider to be the good things in the sport of baseball. But I will just, I, I will take this question to be geared towards the golden age to be a baseball fan? Which I think my answer even though I was not alive, for most of this time, would be the 1980s and first half of the 1990s, I guess? Pre-strike would be the golden age to be a baseball fan. Because it was widely available enough via television. The players were interesting, I think there was a lot of charisma associated with players at this, in this time period. Really, I’m just like picturing Rickey Henderson. But I think baseball had a more distinct personality back then, than it does now. Now, I feel like we have like such an anodyne product, an optimized product. And that’s good for creating better baseball players. But maybe bad for the variation that a sport needs in order for fans to connect to it on multiple levels. And so in the 80s, when they were running more, when there were more mistakes happening, when there were weirder quirks to the game, when guys had different stances and wind ups and the managers were leaving guys in too long, or taking guys out too early, like this sort of thing. I think it’s not that I yearn for managers to start doing that, or for players to get worse necessarily. But to live in a time, it’s sort of a, it’s a kind of like a Catch-22. But I yearned to live in time where I didn’t know that any of that stuff was going on, and I was just enjoying it on its face. Do you know what I mean? Plus the Mets won the World Series 1980s, so–
ALEX: It definitely felt like the kind of the wild, wild west of baseball.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Baseball’s wild, wild west era, because like you said, players were a little more accessible, the game was a little bit more accessible. But a lot of those channels and venues hadn’t been kind of so completely gate kept to the point that there was really just like a machine that was created around access to stars and baseball media, so to speak, right? The, the league is really kind of just coming into its own as a broadcast powerhouse. And is coming out of a somewhat drug fueled era, right? And one filled with–
BOBBY: About to go into a different drug fueled era.
ALEX: Yeah, I see. Seriously. But yeah, the, the personalities were big enough. And like MLB PR reps hadn’t, like started cracking down on–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: –like, players kind of coming out and speaking about, ah fuck, I don’t fucking know, like. How dinosaurs exist? Or whatever, you know, like–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I, I also really appreciate the kind of like, late 50s slash 1960s of baseball.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Just because of kind of the sheer volume of all-time players that we would get to see that, right? Obviously, the sport is really kind of undergoing a shift in the balance between hitters and, and pitchers. Pitching obviously really peaked around the late 1960s. With the year the pitcher Bob Gibson’s fucking like 1.12 ERA year. That’s I was looking at, like his stats the other day, ridiculous, ridiculous thing that happened in baseball. Like not that long ago.
BOBBY: Yeah. Be careful, you’re gonna get Keith Olbermann. On our case, if you don’t properly identify every important member of Major League Baseball in 1968.
ALEX: And it was also I think, kind of on an upswing kind of coming out of like World War II era, right? And so it was really kind of the moment where it started to reposition itself, in like the center–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –of people’s minds. Not to mention everything else that was going on, like outside of ballparks in that time. I imagine that must have been a bizarre, bizarre time to just try and go to a baseball game. And like–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –let it all go, you know.
BOBBY: Going straight from the rally to the baseball game.
ALEX: Right, exactly. You’re like, oh, did you see what happened to JFK? Anyway, I have two tickets to the Cardinals game.
BOBBY: Sitting in the stands talking about this, the lone shooter.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Whether or not there really was one. Yeah, what about it?
ALEX: Did you hear that The Grassy Knoll?
BOBBY: Yeah, what a vibe, what a vibe. I think, okay, here’s the problem with baseball now, here’s the one problem. The only problem with baseball right now, Alex. I think that we’re in a weird era of baseball, and we’ve been in it for 10 years or so. We’ve been in it the entire time that you and I have been doing this podcast for sure. Where baseball is very self-conscious. Baseball people, baseball fans, the way that we talk about the game. General sports fans are self-conscious about the things that make baseball great. All of the sappiness, all of the tradition, all of the, the slow pace of it, the cadence, the, the things that you hear People say about the heyday of baseball in the time that you’re talking about. Like the 1930s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, where it’s like the soundtrack to the summer. And being at a baseball game is what it feels like to be a kid. And you know, to be outside and to be a little too hot, but you’re enjoying it because you’re cooling off of the beer. Like all of those corny cliches that, just because they’re cliches doesn’t mean they’re not true. And I think that we’re at this weird point of baseball, where people inside it are always trying to sell it. Like they’re acting like nobody likes it anymore. And I just think that you can’t be in a golden age of sport, if that’s the discourse around the sport constantly. Is that it’s dying because it’s too slow and it’s boring. Like, we used to talk about those things as the reason that people liked baseball is a different pace. It’s no clock, there’s no game clock, there’s no basket to shoot into. It’s completely different than so many other sports that we have in America. And that’s what makes it beautiful. And particularly your answer like the 19, late 50s and 60s. I think that myth making around baseball, people still believed in it. I don’t think, people don’t quite believe in baseball as much as they used to, you know?
ALEX: Yeah, I think that like coming out of the steroid era. I mean, you really have you have the strike in the mid 90s, right? And then you have the steroid era immediately after that. Steroid era, as it was unfolding, really captured people’s attention, right? And then obviously, it kind of blew up in their faces when they had to admit it, I guess?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: What was going on in the sport, but for a while it was it almost seemed saved, right? It does feel like ever since then. The bubble has been burst just a little bit about the kind of, grandness of, of baseball, this sort of higher petters- pedestal that it’s on.
BOBBY: Yeah. Dare I say this podcast is like, created to be oppositional to that line of thinking.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Somewhere along the way, it just became uncool to like everything, but especially baseball and the sports world. Where, you know, like this, this, there’s like a running joke with, with the NBA where people are like, Oh, my God, this league, it’s crazy. Like every, every beginning of July, when free agency starts and all these people are signing with a bunch of different teams. And it was like, Oh, my God, this league, so crazy, so fun, all that stuff. And now we’re sort of seeing like a blowback to that a little bit. And it just nobody ever talks about baseball in that way. We’re not like Ryan Tepera signed with the Angels this league, but–
ALEX: Maybe not you.
BOBBY: I don’t think, well, that’s what I mean, though. But I don’t think it’s uncool to like baseball. And I kind of feel like we, we are turning the tide around a little bit, not just you and me. But, but there is a whole wave of like New Media style baseball content creation, that’s like no, actually, this is fun and good and I like this thing. And I count players podcasts among that, among that. I count the success of baseball YouTubers amongst that. The, the limited success of some baseball podcasts among that. Like, I don’t know, I think we’re coming out of that era a little bit. If we could get SportsCenter to stop acting like nobody likes baseball anymore. That would help, I think.
ALEX: Is A. Rod. the face of that new movement?
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: Is he the one, the chosen one?
BOBBY: Nope.
ALEX: To bring balance to the sport?
BOBBY: I’m not going along with this bit. I was trying to be earnest. And here you are being like, it’s actually A. Rod. it’s gonna do it. That, this question took a lot longer than I was expecting to.
ALEX: Yeah, it was a good one.
BOBBY: Put some deep out of me.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: All right, next question. Next and last question. We’ll have time for one more. We did get a question from Dan about baseball books. But I did not prepare to answer that question. So we will get to that at some point in the future. Maybe a Tipping Pitches reading list. But here’s a question from a different–
ALEX: Oh wish a book club.
BOBBY: Yeah, we should do a book club?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: We can’t even–
ALEX: We can’t even do our own.
BOBBY: –can’t even keep up with the book club that we have outside the podcast, Alex. This is, this other questions. Last question came from a different Dan ,multiple Dan, back to back Dans. Thank you to the Dans, who liked the Tipping Pitches Podcast.
ALEX: Dance, dance.
BOBBY: Right. Dan L. asks, “How much do lineups matter? As a fan, should I even care about the lineups?”
ALEX: Short, sweet to the point. I love it!
BOBBY: I think this question comes within the context of the fact that every time a lineup is tweeted out, there’s like 1000 people replying to it being like, why was this manager ever given a job?
ALEX: Right. Leury Garcia batting third?
BOBBY: Maybe that one was right.
ALEX: That was–
BOBBY: [1:04:45]
ALEX: –that was right. Yeah. But–
BOBBY: I, I do feel like there is so much discourse around lineup construction and it matters less than people think it does.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: The lineup matters, in the sense that they are the people are trying to score runs. But on a game to game basis? I don’t think it has as much effect as it as performance in the aggregate over the 162 game season.
ALEX: Right, exactly. Lineups–
BOBBY: You’re gonna feel like 10 games by creating the best lineup that you can that day.
ALEX: Yeah, lineups matter over the course of the season, because they largely dictate who is getting the most played appearances, right? A guy who’s hitting second is just going to have more about them than the guy who’s hitting seventh. So maybe construct your lineup accordingly. But like you said, on a game to game basis, that’s the difference of like, that’s the difference of like, an at bat or two, for some players, right? Pete Alonso probably shouldn’t hit seventh for the next month. But if you want to hit him seventh once to, to like, you know, shake him out of a funk or something like that. Like sure, by all means, like that’s, it’s definitely an art not a science, right? And I–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –think that, I think there’s this conception that because of the kind of analytical revolution in the sport, that it really can become a science, right? So there have been plenty of analysis done about what is the optimal lineup construction look like, right? Do you want a, a speedster or like a high contacts speedster at the top? Do you want to put your best player hitting second, instead of third? Like–
BOBBY: I like second.
ALEX: –I’ve, I like second too.
BOBBY: I like third, also.
ALEX: It doesn’t really matter. I, he’s gonna hit the first inning, regardless.
BOBBY: I think, I think another thing that people conflate with lineup construction is, is lineup depth. Where like, your manager might put out a lineup that looks pretty shitty five through nine. One or one day a week or two days a week or if you’re the Orioles like six days a week. But I often think that we get too mad at managers for that. It’s not the manager’s fault that not every player on the roster has a quality backup. That’s just a function of there being 30 teams and not being 900 really good baseball players on Earth.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know, like, I, I don’t think that we, I don’t know blame GMs enough for this? When we see a bad lineup get, get constructed. Bullpen management on the other hand, that can often be attributed to managers. But there’s so much that we don’t know. Like, is a guy tired one day? That the reason that you’re seeing in a, in a pivotable, pivotal rubber match against a division rival you’re seeing Brandon Nimmo sit out or something like that. Is his wrist sore, and we don’t find out about it until a week later? So much stuff like just don’t waste your time getting mad about lineup construction. That is my opinion.
ALEX: Now–
BOBBY: Don’t go back and check my tweets about whether I’ve ever tweeted about a bad Mets lineup because it’s definitely happened.
ALEX: Right. When I’m playing MLB: The Show are out of the park, do I meticulously make sure that every single lineup looks perfect? Even when I’m just playing one game. Sure! Sure, I do. Do I hit my pitcher eighth? Because someone once was like, you’re the worst player hits eighth and I was like that sounds good. Yeah! Maybe I do or–
BOBBY: Yeah!
ALEX: –not anymore because there’s, there’s no DH.
BOBBY: Alex’s pro table setter.
ALEX: Absolutely! Yeah, little speedster on base guy at the bottom second lead off.
BOBBY: Gavin Lux–
ALEX: [1:08:24]
BOBBY: –[1:08:24] for the Dodgers. Come on! Secondly [1:08:27], that’s the guy who bats least. I don’t know, it, it’s just it’s all, It’s all a wash. I hope that your team hits a bunch of home runs.
ALEX: Yeah, honestly. I mean, hey, neither of us have ever exactly claimed to be Oracle’s when it comes to analytics in baseball. I think we may have even made a point over the last few years to shy away from hardcore statistical analysis. Even though it’s fun to, to think about.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But again, ultimately you and I know just as much as the average fan knows, when it comes to why lineup looks the way it does. So I oftentimes–
BOBBY: Hey, now. Hey, now. The average fan, ahhh, maybe the average Tipping Pitches listener.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: We don’t know more than you guys. But we know more, come on, come on. You know, than the average fan, I mean, come on, Alex!
ALEX: You know–
BOBBY: There’s a lot of dumb fans out there.
ALEX: Yeah, you know what, and on some days I count myself among them.
BOBBY: Okay, let’s end this podcast. But for you take all of our credibility. tippingpitchespod@gmail.com, tipping_pitches on Twitter. 785-422-5881, please call in and tell us your favorite moments in the history of baseball Twitter. Tell us if you think that we were completely wrong about lineup construction. It’s the only thing that matters, no matter who is in your lineup. Tell us what you think the golden era of baseball was. And then you know, maybe consider if you haven’t yet, check out our Patreon. Just go on to patreon.com\tippingpitches and, and seeing what’s there for you. Even if you don’t end up signing up for it. Special thanks to our A. Rod. VIP Club members, five of them get a shout out at the end of every podcast. There are too many to name like we originally thought that we would be able to at the end of every episode, but that’s a good thing. Thank you everyone who has signed up at that tier. Big shouts to Lisa, Grace, Ian, Destin, and Lucas this week. And then lastly, Alex, just a, a periodic reminder to people for listening to this. There’s someone in your life, who you think might also get something out of listening to this podcast. Maybe there’s two or three people in your life who you think might enjoy the Tipping Pitches Podcast. Shoot ’em a link, one link, so all you have to do is say, hey, I like this podcast, you might too. It’s cool to like podcasts.
ALEX: It’s cool like po-
BOBBY: It’s cool to like baseball and it’s cool to give people unsolicited podcast suggestions. Thanks, everybody for listening. We will be back next week. Clear your schedules if you’re a member of the A. Rod. VIP Club here, June 14th, 8pm Eastern. Thanks for listening.
[1:11:11]
[Music]
[1:11:20]
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most, Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya!
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
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