Bobby and Alex discuss a $9 million sale of a copy of the U.S. Constitution and whether or not it relates to a very important figure in the baseball world. Then, they field your voicemails and emails about the teams that have been eliminated from the 2024 playoffs and try to provide some therapeutic advice for fans of those squads.
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A rare copy of the US Constitution sells for $9 million at auction
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Tipping Pitches features original music from Steve Sladkowski of PUP.
Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and be able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitch and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand what Tipping Pitches all about? That’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, I have some news to share with you.
ALEX: I love when you do this.
BOBBY: This is— this is from apnews.com, the Associated Press. US News, a rare copy of the United States Constitution sells for $9 million at auction. “A rare copy of the U.S. Constitution printed 237 years ago and sent to the states to be ratified was sold for $9 million at an auction Thursday evening in North Carolina. Brunk Auctions,” that’s a real company name, “sold the document, the only copy of its type and thought to be privately owned, at a private auction. The name of the buyer was not immediately released.”
ALEX: Oh.
BOBBY: What do we think?
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: What do we think?
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: Did he do it?
ALEX: He had to, right? I mean, who else do we know who’s doing it like him?
BOBBY: Great question. I have to imagine there’s more than just one person out there who’s in the market for documents that sell for $9 million. Like I don’t think that they’re just paying that because that’s what they think that it should be for.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: I think that is somewhat of a market price.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And I think it’s some people’s like, whole, probably, job to just buy and sell important documents.
ALEX: Well, so this is maybe where it’s a good time to share with listeners that we—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —actually did participate in the bidding of this.
BOBBY: Hmm. Uh-hmm. Right.
ALEX: We opened the bidding—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —at $5.
BOBBY: Right. But then we decided that it was more important to go to the National League Championship Series.
ALEX: Yeah, pretty much.
BOBBY: So we had to save our pennies. I thought you were gonna say, “This is a good time to tell the listeners what we’re talking about,” because, you know, every once in a while, there might be a new person listening to this podcast, and they’re not in on the seven years of lore.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: As the kids say these days, that went into the making of Tipping Pitches. We’re referring, of course—
ALEX: What, lore as the kids say these days?
BOBBY: Yeah, lore. Isn’t that what— isn’t that what everybody’s saying?
ALEX: I guess.
BOBBY: Why are you trying to derail me?
ALEX: This is what I do.
BOBBY: David Rubenstein, newly minted owner of the Baltimore Orioles.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Bought the team one year ago. He is a private equity billionaire. He’s a philanthropist, for whatever that is worth, and he is personally interested in historical documents.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: He owns one of the early copies of the Magna Carta.
ALEX: Right. Not the original copy, I will say.
BOBBY: Where is the original copy? Look that up on your little laptop over there, instead of derailing me.
ALEX: Where’s the original copy of the Magna Carta?
BOBBY: I hate when you do this, because it never works and then you’re like, “Look, it doesn’t work.” And I’m like, ” know it’s not gonna work.”
ALEX: Four copies, the original Magna Carta of 1215, exists today.
BOBBY: Here’s a question.
ALEX: Oh, my God.
BOBBY: How could it be the original if there are four of them?
ALEX: Right. They were writing them at the same time.
BOBBY: Now, I don’t—
ALEX: They have four—
BOBBY: They probably were—
ALEX: They have four scribes who said, “No, Joe is getting a little far ahead.”
BOBBY: They probably were.
ALEX: You know Joe.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: What people went by back then.
BOBBY: That was the way that they verified that it was real and didn’t have, like, on video. They had four different guys cross-referencing so that one person didn’t have too much power. They didn’t want, like, an Ippei situation where he’s translating it wrong. Where is it? You didn’t even finish reading it.
ALEX: I know. Well, now, I closed it. Now, I have to ask again.
BOBBY: Ask again.
ALEX: And I’m a little scared to do it.
BOBBY: No, do it again.
ALEX: Where’s the original Magna Carta? Interesting that it gave me a different answer.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I mean— I mean—
BOBBY: Really reliable.
ALEX: —explain— oh, Siri is still listening. There are four known surviving copies. Two of them are held by Cathedral Churches, the Lincoln and Salisbury, and the other two are in the British Library in London.
BOBBY: Hmm. So probably he’s not going to free any of those up anytime soon.
ALEX: Probably not.
BOBBY: So he has one that came out, like, 20 years later. We are obsessed with this fact. When we found out that he was buying the Orioles, of course, we did what we do, which we do a deep dive onto a new owner, because what you come here is for shitposting about owners, not for baseball analysis.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Because we’re, like, halfway through MLB playoffs, in the middle of two really barn burner series and championship series and we’re talking about—
ALEX: Talking about the constitution, baby.
BOBBY: We’re talking about constitution. And you revealed to me that he was a collector and he was collecting historical documents, including the Magna Carta. And this, I would say, like, top five times, like, on air that my mind has been blown. I was like, “So he has the Magna Carta.”
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like he has it. I mean, he— it’s currently being displayed in a museum in DC, I think, but he owns it.
ALEX: Right. It says—
BOBBY: Owned by David Rubenstein.
ALEX: —Courtesy of the David Rubenstein Foundation or whatever.
BOBBY: Yeah. And now, a copy of the U.S. Constitution, a real one, which was sent around to each state and ratified, sold for $9 million and I’m supposed to believe he wasn’t involved?
ALEX: Was this like— did they send the same constitution to each state? It was, like, sign it and pass it on? You know, they were like, “All right, California, you’re up first.” California, which—
BOBBY: Definitely was a constitutional state, yeah. Yeah.
ALEX: —existed— existed as it’s— in its form back then.
BOBBY: Well, I could tell you, except it closed out of the article for me, so hang on. Well, you open it up on X, the everything app? AP told— is telling me how long the bidding took, but not telling me that much about the document. Seven minutes bids at $500,000 interviews. Who needs all this information?
ALEX: So interestingly, another version of the constitution that was sold in 2021. Take a— take a guess at the sell price.
BOBBY: 10 million.
ALEX: Higher.
BOBBY: 20 million.
ALEX: Higher.
BOBBY: 50 million?
ALEX: 43 million.
BOBBY: Wow.
ALEX: So this is a— if— if David is not in on this, then, frankly, I don’t trust his business acumen.
BOBBY: So why? Why did it sell for so much more? Was it, like, just in better shape, you know? Did someone’s, like, kid draw on this one that sold for 9 million?
ALEX: Right. It still has the original Ben Franklin doodles in the corner.
BOBBY: They’re gonna sell my notes one day and people are gonna be like, “Why did he draw so many triangles?”
ALEX: Ooh, you’re a triangles guy, too?
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah. You didn’t know that?
ALEX: I guess I didn’t know that probably.
BOBBY: You did know that, because I used to— we used to print out our— these little triangles up in the corner here that I’m showing you.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: We used to print out our budget doc, we called it, when we ran our student newspaper together, and it was, like, all the stories that were coming out that day. And I would spend the whole meeting, like, kind of half listening to whatever all the editors talking about their stories, but mostly just drawing triangles on my paper.
ALEX: Yeah. I— I’m learning so much right now. I hope you— the listeners are, too. This constitution that was just sold, this is not the 2021 version, but the recent one. Roughly one of a 100 copies that was created on September 28th. That’s where the article cut off. 1787.
BOBBY: I was waiting with bated breath. I knew the year. I didn’t know that that’s what you’re waiting to say.
ALEX: Oh, okay.
BOBBY: They found it just in a desk drawer.
ALEX: Yeah. They found a copy of the Declaration of Independence there, like, four decades ago. Well—
BOBBY: Bro.
ALEX: So they were like—
BOBBY: This is how I’m different—
ALEX: They found a copy of the Declaration of Independence in the ’80s and they were like, “That’s probably the only thing here, right?”
BOBBY: This is how I’m different from these people. If I bought a house and I opened a drawer and I saw a copy of the Declaration of Independence, I’d be like, “This is just fake,” and I’d throw it away.
ALEX: Right. My souvenir.
BOBBY: This is a really impressive art project for the person’s kid who used to live here. So we— we await further updates on whether or not David Rubenstein just spent his whole Corbin Burnes extension fund on the U.S. Constitution.
ALEX: Brunk Auctions is closed this week due a con— due to a continuing lack of water.
BOBBY: What? Okay.
ALEX: Just reading from their home— in case you wanted to go there and see what else they had for sale. It looks like this was Brunk’s big— big get.
BOBBY: Big break?
ALEX: Yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: Interesting. Do you think they ran out of water because they got face ID’ed by Kroger and then walked in and tried to buy it, but they couldn’t afford it?
ALEX: That’s— kind of an impressive connection there.
BOBBY: I was just really looking for an opportunity to bury you under the Kroger.
ALEX: [8:32] that up? Yeah, I know. It’s not— that— that ages worse by the day.
BOBBY: I tried to tell you. I tried to tell you and look who’s keeping America strong and going to work, Chevrolet.
ALEX: Sorry, I’m just seeing what else they have for— for— for auction.
BOBBY: All right. Well, you keep looking into that. I’m going to keep— I’m going to do the rest of the podcast.
ALEX: You want to do this podcast?
BOBBY: Yeah, I think we’ll do the rest of the podcast.
ALEX: Okay. All right, all right.
BOBBY: So— so today on the— on the podcast, obviously, we’re going to talk about the 2024 Major League Baseball Playoffs. And we’re going to do that by doing some what we are calling postseason therapy. So if your team has been eliminated, we’ve asked you to call into the podcast and leave a voicemail about— leave a voicemail about your team and what you were hoping for, what kind of advice you were hoping for as they head into their offseason. So we’re going to go through every team that’s been eliminated. We’ll talk about the series within that. Maybe talk about the ALCS and the NLCS as they currently stand. We’re recording this on Saturday afternoon before the Yankees-Guardians play game five. Five, right?
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Yankees lead that series 3-1, and obviously, one day before the Mets and Dodgers play game six in Los Angeles. So no World Series preview yet. The plan is to do another podcast midweek before the World Series starts, just specifically previewing the World Series once we know what the matchup for that is. So we’ll get you more World Series talk on that episode. This will be more of a— how far we’ve come in the postseason so far, and that’s pretty much it. I don’t have any other shenanigans on the podcast, but I’m sure we’ll get into them. But before we do that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I’m Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[theme]
BOBBY: Thank you to this week’s new patrons, Chris, Joe, Matthew, Ally, [10:27] and Elizabeth. Thank you to everybody who bought our individual NLDS Audio Diary episode, Alex. Did you know that five people purchased that?
ALEX: No, I don’t.
BOBBY: I didn’t know anyone was going to purchase it. First of all, didn’t even know that you could purchase it.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I just said that because I learned it like 20 minutes before recording last week.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And then people did it. Hope you enjoyed it. Hope it maybe convince you to be a be a patron going forward. I said before the beautiful musical introduction there, that we were not going to get into any other shenanigans on this episode, but I was lying. Did you see the postgame on Fox yesterday?
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Where—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Where David Ortiz attempted— the only way I can phrase it honestly, is to seduce Mrs. Met live on television.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Yeah.
BOBBY: And Mr. Met came over and sort of, like, wagged his finger. They literalized, like, all the sort of Mr. Met cock [11:23] fantasies—
Alex: Uh-hmm.
Bobby: —that happen in the deepest corners of the baseball internet—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —on X, the everything app. They literalized it on Fox. And you know who didn’t enjoy that? Fox analyst Derek Jeter. He dropped his mic and walked off the set.
ALEX: He did.
BOBBY: What was happening there.
ALEX: Why— why is Jeter here?
BOBBY: I don’t know.
ALEX: What— what purpose is he serving?
BOBBY: He— does he need the money, is what I said to you, because—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —he doesn’t seem like he wants to be there. And he just came from running a team and this is not helping him get back to running a team. I—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: It’s just— it’s— it’s all very weird. I would like to say thank you to David Ortiz for all of his great work on television over the last 10 years.
ALEX: I would— I would, too. Hey, I— we were breathing the same air as them on— on Wednesday.
BOBBY: See, I didn’t realize that they went on to the field after the game.
ALEX: I didn’t, either.
BOBBY: That was my mistake.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: On Wednesday, Alex and I after the game, we did try to go get in the background of the shot of Fox, and maybe, like, chant, “Tipping Pitches,” or yell, “A-Rod, come on the pod,” or something like that. And we were sort of walking to center field, and some security guards diverted us, and said, “Please leave the stadium.”
ALEX: Yeah. I think they knew who we were. They were using that Kroger tech.
BOBBY: They were using that Kroger tech. That’s not even— when it comes to sports, that’s more James Dolan tech.
ALEX: That’s true.
BOBBY: You know this.
ALEX: Yeah, I do know this. Look, I— I was—
BOBBY: We didn’t get in the shot.
ALEX: We didn’t get in the shot.
BOBBY: We didn’t meet A-Rod, although you tried.
ALEX: I— I tried my very best before the game, and I will say—
BOBBY: You were close to him.
ALEX: I was close to him. I was within about 25 feet of him or so.
BOBBY: And you claim he made eye contact with you?
ALEX: I claim he made eye contact with me. I will take this with me to my grave. He— you know, they were kind of between segments or whatever, and folks started chanting, “Let’s go Mets.” And he sort of leaned back in his chair, looked off to the right, and I— we sort of— I don’t— I don’t want to say we locked eyes, because that’s maybe overselling it a little bit, but I was staring directly at him. So if his eyes crossed— crossed me in any shape or form, then we did make eye contact.
BOBBY: Okay. What was your plant?
ALEX: I was just going to mouth agape like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I don’t— I don’t know. My mind went blank.
BOBBY: You were like live texting me updates about this.
ALEX: I was.
BOBBY: And I was sort of like, “I don’t know what to do.”
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like, I don’t know how to help. Please ask him if he’ll come on the podcast, I guess.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You did or did not approach his assistant.
ALEX: Look, I ultimately did not approach, and that’s on me.
BOBBY: The fact that you even know who his assistant is, is— is how I know that I would never—
ALEX: We’re into deep?
BOBBY: —ever in a million years, want to host this podcast with anyone else. You know, like, his name, you know his LinkedIn profile. Like all— you can identify A-Rod’s assistant in a crowd of people at a baseball game is so funny to me. Look, we just want to have him on.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know, Jake from Cespedes Family Barbecue, he met Yoenis Céspedes.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I don’t know how long their exchange was. I just saw a photo. They took a photo together.
ALEX: Yeah,
BOBBY: Lord, I’ve seen what you’ve done for other people, and I’m wondering, when will you do it for me?
ALEX: I feel like we’re getting closer, you know?
BOBBY: Yeah. Well, when he buys the Twins.
ALEX: Well, I was sitting there just kind of in—
BOBBY: Or the White Sox.
ALEX: Or the White Sox.
BOBBY: Two teams that are up for sale, for sure.
ALEX: Yeah. Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Definitely— the White Sox are definitely up for sale. He definitely really is going to do that.
ALEX: I was trying to figure out what my pitch would be, you know? And I was like, “I feel like I need to approach him— because people who come up to him—
BOBBY: Just don’t say too much.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Just be like, “Hey, I have a baseball podcast. You know, we talk about, like, our favorite figures of the game.” That’s definitely what we do.
ALEX: That’s— we talk about our favorite figures of the game.
BOBBY: And he would be like, “Oh, that’s great.”
ALEX: You think that’s what he would say?
BOBBY: Or, or, or, or alternative path, “Hey, we have a baseball podcast. We focus a lot on the business of the game.”
ALEX: No, that’s actually exactly what I was gonna say. So—
BOBBY: We don’t have to say how we focus on it.
ALEX: No, 100— you— you— say I was gonna say, “Look, I’m a huge fan of The Deal.”
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: “I really appreciate—”
BOBBY: To be clear, not Art of the Deal?
ALEX: No, The Deal.
BOBBY: The Deal? Okay.
ALEX: Yes. This is hosted by Jason— I don’t know, the less important one.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I don’t know.
BOBBY: The one who’s not A-Rod.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: His name is Jason.
ALEX: And I said, “Look, I— I really appreciate the sensibilities with which you discuss the business of sports and beyond.”
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: “And we would like you to come do that for us.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I think he would get it.
BOBBY: Just—
ALEX: I think if I had a little presidente in my hand, he’d be like, ” This guy knows me.”
BOBBY: We are looking for some insight.
ALEX: Yeah. “Sir, I want to know how the book’s coming.”
BOBBY: From one person who loves macroeconomics to another, please come on Tipping Pitches.
ALEX: Exactly. Yes.
BOBBY: How do you think the book is coming? It’s been years—
ALEX: It has been a couple years.
BOBBY: —since he tweeted out that photo of an empty notepad on his knees.
ALEX: Saying, “book.”
BOBBY: He’s just one of one. He’s one of one, man. I hope he never stops.
ALEX: Same.
BOBBY: I don’t want him to buy the Twins, because then he won’t be on TV anymore.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: And he won’t do The Deal, he won’t do all of this stuff.
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: But on the other hand, then he would be an MLB owner, and then we would truly have an excuse to talk about him every week.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That’s what this podcast is about. Okay. Would you like to do postseason therapy?
ALEX: Let’s do it.
BOBBY: How about we start with the National League? How’s that sound?
ALEX: That sounds great, Bobby.
BOBBY: Thanks.
ALEX: You’re such a good producer.
BOBBY: You sound a little bit like ChatGPT, there, you know? Like I’m having you say all these phrases that I’ve—
ALEX: Right. That’s— that’s a lovely idea, Robert.
BOBBY: —that I’ve— all these phrases— that I’ve always wanted to hear, you know? Just a little affirmation from my friend Alex. We did not get any calls about two teams. I’d say one of those two teams is on us. We did not get any calls about the Atlanta Braves.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: We have, I would say, alienated the Braves fan base over the years.
ALEX: I said I don’t really know if they’re gonna respond well to—
BOBBY: I think if a Braves fan— we have Braves fans in the Slack.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Wonderful Braves fans who have been supporters of Tipping Pitches and listeners of Tipping Pitches for years, whom I deeply appreciate.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: These fans did not make this organization this way. Okay? I don’t think that Braves fans are like, “John Smoltz is a good guy.” But hey, I don’t know. I’m just giving you the evidence. They didn’t call.
ALEX: They didn’t call.
BOBBY: They didn’t call, so therefore, fuck them.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Fuck the Braves.
ALEX: You didn’t show up for your therapy session, sorry. I’m charging you the cancelation fee.
BOBBY: The— the podcast therapy session— segment is a two-way street is what I always say.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Exactly.
BOBBY: If you’re a Braves fan and you’re upset about your team getting bounced this year, I would— here’s my advice to you. You have the best roster in baseball and you will return Ronald Acuna, Jr. and Spencer Strider next year, so it’s gonna be all right. You’ll be all right. We also didn’t get any calls about the Milwaukee Brewers, and I think I was pretty nice to the Brewers when the Mets eliminated them, I have to say.
ALEX: You were.
BOBBY: I was cordial. I was friendly. Nick, friend of the podcast, was going to call in, but it turns out he’s on a wonderful international vacation instead, so I hope that he’s enjoying it.
ALEX: Are you seriously sharing his real-time assassination coordinates?
BOBBY: Yeah, he’s not in the United States. That narrows it down.
ALEX: A little bit.
BOBBY: Honestly, no. That makes it wider than usual, where he usually does live in the United States. Thank you to Nick and sorry about your team. Hope you’re enjoying your vacation. That brings us to the Philadelphia Phillies.
ALEX: Wow. What a place to start.
BOBBY: Call ’em like I see ’em, you know? I’m doing it for content. Here’s the first voice. We got two voicemails about the Philadelphia Phillies. Here is the first.
AMANDA: Hello, Tipping Pitches. I’m Amanda. I am a Philadelphia Phillies fan. I hope that we can still be cordial in our relationship between podcaster and podcast listeners, even though I have some choice words about the Mets, but this is part of the grieving process. And that’s also what I want to talk about in this voice message, which I am thinking about the realness of sports grief. I’ve dealt with real grief in my life, and by that, I mean, you know, real grief. But even in that, I’m just counting the real impact of how much it sucks when you really, really believe in a team, and you invest so much time and money and energy into them, and they just let you down year after year. Yeah, it doesn’t hurt as much as actually, like, losing a person close to you, but it is a form of grief, and I find that really interesting. And as a Phillies fan, I find that this particular postseason ending is worse for me than the last two years that we were in the playoffs and lost first in the World Series and then in the NLCS. But losing in the NLCS this year, it’s not even about the mess of it all, even though I think that the OMG thing has gone too far and, I don’t know, Grimace was fun six months ago, sorry, I’m angry. But it just feels like this lineup is very similar to what it was the previous year, and we’ve developed, like, such a deep relationship with these players and all their little antics, except for Austin Hayes. We don’t know what he’s doing here. And for them to just let us down again, it’s like I feel just really let down, but I’m having fun watching the rest of the postseason. I’m sorry to say I’m rooting for the Dodgers in the NLCS, but at least I respect the Mets, unlike the Braves. Sorry to the Braves. Goodbye.
BOBBY: Just had to get that Braves dig in there at the end.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: That’s good stuff. All right, Alex. You’ve jettisoned the Philadelphia Phillies, however, you are being put in a tough spot here. You have to soothe to their fans, even though they’re ready to, like, flay you in the town square, I guess, for what you’ve done—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —to their organization.
ALEX: I rise above, and Phillies fans go low.
BOBBY: You go high. What do you say?
ALEX: I mean, Amanda, thank you for calling. That’s real. The grief is real.
BOBBY: Should we try to talk, like, in therapy speak for this?
ALEX: Yes, I was going to try to.
BOBBY: Okay, go for it.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: All right.
ALEX: You were valid.
BOBBY: How are you using this to create a wall around— against those around you?
ALEX: No, it’s true. I mean, it’s like you pour yourself into a— into a team for six months and sports have such a way of connecting us to hope and— and community, really. It’s like if you were watching a baseball team or a sports team at all on your own, and experience of that alone, I think that would feel much different than sort of having this communal spirit that, you know, you go through the emotional ebbs and flows with this group of like-minded people throughout the year, right? And then the—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —rug is just pulled out from— from under you. So I—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: —think that that’s— you— you are valid. You are valid. I mean, you know, just a few weeks ago, I was sitting there on my couch, sobbing over the last game of the Oakland Coliseum, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And— and, yeah, I— you know, it’s different from, like, the real life trials and tribulations that we have to go through, but it’s like— it takes up a lot of our emotional and mental space and capacity. And when that just doesn’t exist anymore, it’s— it’s tough.
BOBBY: Yes. I was thinking about that, too, when Amanda here— and thank you for calling, Amanda, was talking about the difference between sports grief and real life grief, and sometimes when they intersect, basically—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —and I was thinking about you, and I was thinking about the A’s that’s like— that’s real— pretty real grief, because that is like an actual manifestation of something that you’ve poured your heart and soul and personality into for a really long time, being fully taken away. The Phillies season coming to an end, it happens every year, basically. Most of the time they’re not going to win the World Series.
ALEX: Well, it’s— it— the season coming to an end does, technically happen for every team every year.
BOBBY: Right. Exactly. And I’m saying most of the time—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —your team is not the one out of the 30 who gets to experience that joy. What I will say is— and I think that this is sort of an offshoot of the conversation that we’ve been having about, how does this playoff format honor the regular season? Does it— you know, does the buy mess with the fact that you’ve been playing basically every day for the last six months? Is this an inaccurate representation of what baseball is supposed to be? I think we are maybe like all a little bit in our own heads a little— too much about this and translating like, did my team win this tournament, basically? And applying it to, did I enjoy myself this season? Was this team good? Was this team worth my time? And I think resoundingly, you have to say yes to the Phillies 2024 season, that it was worth your time to be a fan, that the team is full of players who are worth watching. The management of the team is attempting to push the team in the right direction. They respect and understand the fan base, unique though they are. And are they doing everything perfectly? No. No team is. But, again, there’s a reason that you picked them to be a fake fan of, it’s because, like, out of all of the teams of the 30, I do think that the Phillies are one of the teams that are most worse— most worth investing your time, and I think that that is the thing that leads to grief, is that we invest so much of our time into this and that it’s [snaps fingers] over in no time. But I think with, like, a slight paradigm shift, we can think like it was either we invested our team— we invested our time in a team like this, or compare it to what you could have been doing with that time, which is like doomscrolling or following the White Sox or— you know, like it’s not bad.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s not so bad. And sometimes if you feel like that calculation is not working for you, step back for a little bit. You know, watch more movies, listen to more music. Like I’ve done that at times throughout my Mets fandom. There were years in there where I just, like, wasn’t really following the team, years. And now, this is, like, my profession, and that’s okay. So I think as fans, we should, again, like you’re saying, have a little bit of a paradigm shift. Did you enjoy the time spent with others and with this team? Probably. So— and is by no means over for this specific core, either, for the guys that you like on this team.
ALEX: Yeah. I mean, like you look at next year and the years beyond, and it’s not a question of, will they be in contention, right? It’s how far will they go.
BOBBY: Yeah. Will they get over the hump?
ALEX: What will that— what will that contention looks like? And that’s part of where all this grief, so to speak, comes from, is because the expectations were so high for them, right? Like it is a testament to how much potential there is that— there is for them. And so I think it’s okay to— you know, after a long season of highs and lows where things looked really great for a while, to sort of take a moment to step back, refresh, reset, and then gear up for next year. It’s not over.
BOBBY: You got to kill the World Series expectations in your head. Like you can’t— you basically have to go into every baseball season being like, I have to be happy with the 162, and anything on top of that is gravy.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Because even the best teams, they don’t— I mean, look what’s happened to the Dodgers over the last 10 years. They’re easily the most success of any team, and they have won to show for it—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —in a weird year. I’m not going to make any qualitative judgments about that. I mean, they very well could win this year too, but this is not the best team that they’ve had, especially with all of the injuries, and they might win. It’s just pretty random.
ALEX: Yeah. Right. But that— but that passion that you feel is why it hurts, and it’s also what’s going to make it feel even that much better when they eventually do win.
BOBBY: The Phillies already got one, you know? They— they can’t take that away. Flags fly forever. Okay. We have one more about the Phillies, but really about being sort of fan agnostic as well.
BECCA: Hey, guys. It’s Becca. [27:44] I am calling for some fan therapy. So I, for nearly all of my life, you know, watched baseball as an agnostic viewer, as team agnostic. And just enjoyed the sport. I didn’t have a favorite team. But in the past three years, the Phillies have really endeared themselves to me, and I found myself watching more of them, and this is the first season where I fully admitted that I am now a Phillies fan. And for the longest time, I thought that watching a sport without a favorite team was the best way to do it because, you know, you could just watch your favorite players. But now that I had some sort of stake in the game with a favorite team, it was so much better, but also so much more devastating. And so I’m coming to you for some fan therapy, as a fan of an eliminated team but also a first time fan, since I’ve never had a favorite team. Thanks. I’ll hang up and listen.
BOBBY: Becca, [28:51] thank you for calling. This one’s tough because I don’t know what this feels like. I’ve never been team agnostic. I suppose that I’m like I was kind of team agnostic for a while in the NBA, and kind of followed the players that I liked the most, or basically made a judgment about each series or each final series based on which player I’d rather have win. And that put— put us at odds at times, since you’re a fan of the Golden State Warriors, and I’m a fan of LeBron James and anyone playing against Draymond Green. But from the baseball world, it’s pretty clear that you have always just been rooting with your whole heart for the A’s and—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —I’ve always been rooting for my whole heart with the Mets. I think that there’s been this sort of push in the last, like, five or 10 years, as we’ve been doing this podcast, that I’ve noticed online, where it’s like being team agnostic is the best thing to be, because then you aren’t tied to the actions of one owner and you’re not tied to the fortunes of one team, and you can sort of lean in and lean out as you see fit, based on how you’re being treated as a fan, or based on what players you like the best. And you’re also not tied to, like, your team committing to shitty people, either. You can really step away quicker. But I think Becca [30:09] makes a good point here. It does feel better when you, like, throw your lot in with another group of people who are, like, uncomplicatedly throwing their lot in for that team. and obviously, that means you have a higher fall. You have a larger fall when that team gets eliminated. But all the stuff that we said about the Phillies withstand— still withstands. And I would say about your choice to move from agnostic to Phillies fan, it doesn’t mean that you can’t still orient the rest of your fandom, like, around players that you like, and around teams that appeal to you more because they have more of those players that you like. I’m in a weird spot right now, because essentially, I have rooted for the Dodgers to win every game of the last five years that wasn’t against the Mets. They are easily my second favorite team, and they’re playing the Mets right now, and I find it hard to want— like, I find it hard to drum up that same sort of, like, sports hate for them that I have for other organizations and that I had for the Phillies during the Phillies series. And it hasn’t made the wins any worse being a Mets fan, you know? And it had— it hasn’t really made the losses any better. So ultimately, I think that you’re making that choice to lean into the Phillies for a reason, and you should trust that reason. And that reason is because they have a collection of players that haven’t, as you said, endear themselves to you. And I think over time, it just becomes more and more endearing as you sort of, like, collect memories, collect trials and tribulations, collect highs and lows with this team that are kind of, like, basically always present. Like, I’m essentially always thinking about Matt Harvey’s game five start in the World Series, even If I’m not directly thinking about it when I watch the Mets. It’s all there. And to have the opportunity to do that with the Phillies who— who have endeared themselves to you, is still really cool, even though they got eliminated this year.
ALEX: Yeah. I mean, it’s an interesting evolution of fandom that Becca [32:16] is experiencing. As you— as you pointed out, I think a lot of folks maybe start— you know, grow up as a kid as a fan of a specific team, and then maybe as you get older, you kind of grow out of that a little bit, or you decide it’s more interesting to watch— to just watch the— the players you like or whatever. And I imagine that it’s really weird to kind of go from not needing to invest your whole heart into a team to falling for a collection of— of players and really pouring yourself into it, and then feeling that heartbreak. Like that’s most sports fans, I think, you know, grow up learning that heartbreak is a part of it and I imagine it’s very strange to sort of not have to experience that. And then as an adult, you, all of a sudden, are like, “Whoa. I really threw myself behind them.”
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: “And, you know, they let me down. They let all of us down.” Right? Not for their own fault necessarily, but just because that’s the way the ball bounces. And— and— and like we said, for Amanda, I think that that’s— those lows really are what make the highs so high.
BOBBY: Completely agree. You can’t— maybe this is just my world view, but you can’t possibly be as happy about a team winning that you are not as invested in when they lost.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like it’s just— that is human nature.
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: That’s human nature of emotion. It’s the same way that, like, you can’t experience true happiness if you just avoid your sadness all the time.
ALEX: Oh. Oh, man.
BOBBY: To get real therapeutic on it.
ALEX: Okay. Yeah, yeah. No, yeah.
BOBBY: It’s true in sports, too. Like, the reason that we care so much about sports are because they’re a microcosm of life.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Right? And you are setting yourself up for that much better of a payoff if/when the Phillies actually do win. So that’s kind of the— the light that is at the end of the tunnel there.
ALEX: Yeah. And it’s just— it’s a really lovely thing to be able to join a community, you know, and have that shared experience, because all of a sudden, now you’re processing this grief, this trauma, basically, with like-minded people. And it doesn’t feel great, but there is something to be said for having that— that shared experience that I think maybe eases— it doesn’t ease the pain a little bit.
BOBBY: Eases pain. You’re saying eases pain.
ALEX: I’m saying eases pain, yeah.
BOBBY: Right, exactly.
ALEX: I think sometimes actually probably makes the pain feel even worse. But again—
BOBBY: But commiseration is important.
ALEX: It is.
BOBBY: In life, in sports, in music, in movies. That’s the reason these things matter.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Otherwise, we’re all just moving through life nihilistically.
ALEX: Right. Exactly.
BOBBY: Which sometimes it feels that way in sports too, and you need a little healthy dose of that every once in a while. But speaking of grief, San Diego Padres were eliminated by— what did they call it? The big bad up the highway or something like that?
ALEX: I don’t— who— who called what?
BOBBY: This was— when— when the Padres finally eliminated the Dodgers, they were like, “We slayed the giant.”
ALEX: Oh.
BOBBY: You know, “Up two my— two hours up the 405,” or something like that. I don’t know. There— there was, like, a whole thing. And this year, that wasn’t the case. The Dodgers punched back, and I have to imagine that was incredibly frustrating, because honestly, this probably was the best Padres team, and a lot of people, myself included, thought that they were the best situated to the October playoff format the way that they didn’t really have a weakness in terms of their player groups, great bullpen, good starting pitching, great lineup. And the Dodgers beat them through a combination of guile and super stardom. So we got an email from Padres fan, Steve, says, “Padres fan in need of support. This Padres team seemed so capable and the Dodgers seemed so beatable, but Musgrove going down, Cease faltering in the playoffs and the bats going cold at the wrong time, have me looking at another long winter.” Steve is in need of some support, Alex, for his San Diego Padres getting bounced once again.
ALEX: Yeah. It’s— it’s tough. Especially sort of what that battle with the Dodgers looked like. Things got really testy at times. The Dodgers did look really beatable, right? I mean, there have been questions sort of all year about rotation and, like, will they have the— the—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —folks and whatnot? And, I mean, it’s really funny to be, like, the team with Shohei Ohtani and Mookie Betts and Freddie Freeman looked really beatable, but it’s like— it’s— it’s true. It felt like there was a window there. And combined with the effusive energy from the Padres lineup, it felt like maybe they could capitalize on it. I— I— I feel like I’m gonna end up sounding like a broken record of like, “Well, the, you know, the lows make the highs worth it.” I think it’s even harder when you sort of have these broader narrative arcs that are propelling the team forward, you know? They’re— all season long, the— the team has sort of rallied around the Seidler family, and they were wearing the patch, you know? And it feels like, hey, maybe there’s a little bit of destiny here, right? The— the Padres have been on the verge for years, you know? They’re ready to break through. This could finally be the year.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: And then those dreams are dashed again. And it’s kind of a reminder of how cold sports fandom can be and sports in genera—
BOBBY: Man, you’re bodying [37:49] Steve right here. Poor Steve.
ALEX: Well, I’m not— you know, I’m trying to— to empathize—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —right? Like—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Like, I— I understand—
BOBBY: You’ve been in this position before, as an A’s fan.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Honestly, the teams sort of reminded me of each other, where it’s like, can they get over the hump? Can they get over the hump? They keep putting teams in, and they’re doing in different ways. Obviously, the A’s were never just rolling out a $220 million payroll, but a really good team that seemingly can’t get over the hump and actually translate it to October. Here’s what I will say for the Padres. Number one, they were really close.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Like, really close—
ALEX: Yep.
BOBBY: —to being able to beat the Dodgers and do it, like, without any fluke shit. Like, they almost just straight up beat them. And that’s nothing to scoff at all year long. Like, well, really, after the first couple months, they looked like one of the best teams in baseball. And even though it didn’t end in a World Series this year, what they did do was, like, turn the vibe around.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And the fan base, the organization, the GM, the players, like, there is sort of— everyone is kind of on the same page that this team is good and this team is worth it and worth investing in. I would be surprised if they took a team that is this close and has this much support. They sell out like every game. And it’s an incredible environment when it comes to the postseason. And they have young stars under contract for a long time, so they have expected salaries for these players. I’d be surprised if they were just like, “We’re not interested in this anymore.” They are kind of pot committed, and that’s a good thing as a fan, because you get to set your watch to the fact that Tatis and Machado and a couple of these other guys who are on longer extensions are going to be there for a while. The hardest, I think, hardest pill to swallow for the Padres this October is that they did the right thing by putting four good starting pitchers together, by making these trades, and they were actually all pretty good all year. I mean, I know Yu Darvish had his health concerns and personal issues that kept him out of the lineup for part of the year, but he— when it came to October, he looked like same old Yu Darvish. I think the Cease thing hurts the most because it’s like he was just great all year, and then he had two bad starts against the Dodgers, who, as we’ve seen in the Mets series, can make good starting pitchers look like they don’t know where the strike zone is. And it just ended up being a bad matchup for him, and that’s a bummer. But that happens. Like that’s playoff baseball. So they didn’t— so I would say they didn’t get beat in the way that makes you question what the plan was, you know?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: They have a pretty good plan still.
ALEX: Right. The plan is put together the best team you can, get to the playoffs, and hope the ball bounces your way, right? And there’s not a lot more that you can do.
BOBBY: They turn the vibe around. The vibe around this team was bad last year, and now—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —the vibe around this team is good again.
ALEX: Yes, agreed. Well, and frankly, also, if you told me five years ago, the team in the NL West that is going to be challenging the Dodgers for NL West supremacy is the San Diego Padres, I probably would have been like, “Okay.” You know, coming off the fifth place finish, the Diamondbacks are looking like they’re pretty good, maybe. The Giant— the Giants, I don’t know, are always hanging around, and—
BOBBY: And that’s all they’re doing.
ALEX: —and that’s kind of, at this point, all they’re doing. But, like, it is a testament to the fact that the Dodgers are— have been, for maybe the last decade, the best team in baseball, and the Padres are right there with them.
BOBBY: I think the path for the Padres, honestly, is, like, eclipsing them in the division. You’re playing a dangerous game when you have to constantly make it into the—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —Wild Card because—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —there’s so much variability, and you’re coming off of that three-game series, so you’re not sure about what that did to your team health wise. You’re not sure how that lined up your pitchers. You’re not sure if there’s a cumulative effect of exhaustion from having to go play that three-year— three-game series, and also not knowing for sure that you were going to make it in. And they made a really good push. They just came up short for the division this year. They— the Dodgers beat them in the series at the end of the year that, basically, if the Padres had swept, it would have been a lot more interesting.
ALEX: Yeah, I mean, this is— this is—
BOBBY: But they also spotted them, like, 15 games earlier in the year. So, like, next year, if you know what this team is going to be like, and you have turned the vibe around, and you expect to be good, and this— this— this team is professional and knows how to win regular season games and knows how to not go through these long stretches of malaise. Every team is going to have malaise for a week or two here and there, but two-month stretches of malaise, if this team can avoid that, I— suddenly, like, with the Dodgers and all their health problems, like, you can win— this division is more winnable than it was three years ago or four years.
ALEX: Yeah. Well, this is the closest they’ve been in, like, 15 years—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —winning the division, which, again, is like, I— maybe that’s not a ton of solace, like, oh, flags fly forever.
BOBBY: No, win the division.
ALEX: But, like, it is. It’s—
BOBBY: And make the Dodgers go get bounced in the short series in the Wild Card rounds.
ALEX: Exactly. Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, that’s the path. And—
ALEX: I think— I think the— the turnaround of this team over the last few years has been somewhat nothing short of remarkable, and they’re in a good spot. I know it doesn’t feel great playing next to the Dodgers all the time, but, like—
BOBBY: I think they were, like, the third best team in baseball this year.
ALEX: The Padres?
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah. Behind the Yankees and Dodgers. And those two teams might be in the World Series.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: So most likely will be in the World Series, so—
ALEX: All right.
BOBBY: What?
ALEX: We still got some series left.
BOBBY: Sure, yes, but it would be miraculous if those two teams were not in the World Series. Not like giant miracle, but a small miracle if both of those teams did not make it.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: They both had 3-1 series leads. There hasn’t been a 3-1 series blown in the last four years, so two at the same time would be surprising. Okay. Let’s move to the AL. Let’s start with the Astros. Sort of a weird year and kind of a weird time for the Astros organization, so we’re going to start with this voicemail about the Astros.
CLAIRE: Hey, this is Claire [44:03] in Houston, big Astros fan, big podcast fan. Just calling to see if y’all have any advice for how to karmically punish Ted Cruz for showing up to the [44:15] Wild Card games and taking the streak away from us. I had become a Bama fan and taken for granted that I would get to one last time FaceTime a friend and holler Colin Baton Rouge [44:27] after an Alex Bregman postseason hit. Hmm. It’s just gone. He’s gonna be gone. Hmm. I don’t know what to do. I don’t think it’s the end of an era, but Jim Crane’s little sense of the— thinking he could be a GM, it could be. Any advice for picking yourself back up from post-Bama era depression, let me know. Thanks.
BOBBY: It’s crazy to imagine that Alex Bregman just might not be on this team next year.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Who— who’s he gonna play for?
ALEX: The Yankees.
BOBBY: That would be in— really interesting. I don’t think they really need him anymore, though. I suppose you could put Jazz back at second and put Bregman at third.
ALEX: Right. I was gonna say, well, Jazz is not very good anyway, right? So they may cut him.
BOBBY: I feel vindicated about Jazz. I feel— I do. I feel he has not looked good this October.
ALEX: But we’re not talking about the Yankees.
BOBBY: No, we’re not.
ALEX: We’re talking about the Astros.
BOBBY: No, no, no. No, we’re not. Here’s my advice for Astros fans. Just look at those World Series rings. No. My— my true advice is there have been times throughout this run where it looked like— and even like in May of this year, we were burying them. And the truth is they still have a lot of infrastructure that develops good players. They still have a good roster. They are not buried. And the AL West is like not that impressive.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: To be honest. The A’s were better than expected, and still 15 games under .500. Like the— the Rangers, coming off a World Series, old roster, a lot of upheaval. Still really good lineup. You expect them to bounce back and be better, and I might pick them to win the division next year. But still, the Mariners, like, I don’t really know what’s going on with them. They cannot seem to figure it out for any long period of time. So my therapeutic advice would be not run it back, necessarily, and not that this is the end of an era, but this is a little bit of an opportunity for, like, a strategic reset with— and also, like, sort of an organizational turning of the page, you know? If— if they don’t bring Bregman back, then you’re left with from the sort of title era. I guess, Verlander, if he’s still gonna pitch. Altuve—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Who’s, like, the guy—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —if we’re being honest. He was up before all of this stuff, and he was the first guy to make it. And he’s been the best player throughout this stretch, so he’s the guy that you want to keep around, and they extended him. Yordan Alvarez.
ALEX: Still one of the best hitters in baseball.
BOBBY: If not the best hitter in baseball.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Jeremy Peña who— still pretty young, like still a few more years of team control left. And like an opportunity to fill out the rest of the roster, right? To not be tied down to, like, semi-expensive veterans, because you know that the championship window is now. It’s like a little bit more of an opportunity to sort of be like, I’m open for business. I don’t know what’s gonna happen. There’s an opportunity that we could have some new guys, some fresh faces, some fun on the horizon of, what— basically something different than I have been expecting for this last— last six years. And honestly, like, you don’t want to become the Yankees. You don’t want it to be like championship or bust every single year. That doesn’t really seem fun to me as a fan base.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And so if you can kind of, like, just take a step back from that, appreciate everything that has happened, appreciate all of the success, all of the ALCS, the sustained success, the knowing you were going to be in it, and actually getting there and winning twice is more than most, quote-unquote, “dynasties” can say for themselves. Like, if you compare them to the ’90s Braves, they only won one, you know? At least the Astros won a few times. So that’s what I would say to Astros fans. I know that it’s going to be weird, but maybe now, like there’s— the pressure’s off a little bit, and that can be its own version of fun.
ALEX: Yeah. Kyle Tucker, too. I don’t even think we said the name Kyle Tucker.
BOBBY: Oh, I didn’t name Kyle Tucker, yeah. Probably because he doesn’t show up in October, so I haven’t thought about him in a while. Come on, you know, I still got it. I still got the fast ball.
ALEX: I know you do. Yeah.
BOBBY: The hater energy is still there when it needs to be.
ALEX: I think perspective is always key, as you’re saying. Things were really bleak for the Astros. The Astros, at one point, not too long ago, were one of the worst baseball teams we have ever seen. And it was really unclear—
BOBBY: You’re talking about, like, 12 years ago?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Okay. I thought you were talking about, like, May. I’m just— I’m just clarifying. I was like, “They weren’t that bad.”
ALEX: No. What I’m saying, things were really, really bleak, and— and they turned it around. Now, yes, is it gonna feel— is it weird when sort of cornerstones of your franchise potentially move on? Yes. I think it’s accepting that things will be different, sure, but doesn’t necessarily mean worse. This team was able to win a World Series or two. Like—
BOBBY: I had to run through it in my head. They did only win two, right?
ALEX: I— I think so.
BOBBY: It’s ’17 and ’22.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s crazy there’s five years between those.
ALEX: That is crazy, yeah.
BOBBY: So they went two and two in the World Series, one in ’17, lost in ’19, lost in ’21 to the Braves, and won in ’22, the Phillies.
ALEX: Not bad.
BOBBY: Pretty good, yeah.
ALEX: I would say not bad.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And again, like, there’s a reason they were able to get there. Like, under no circumstances do you have to hand it to Jim Crane and/or the Astros front office.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But, like, they—
BOBBY: That’s— that’s the toughest part of this whole situation for an Astros fan is, like, he’s just kind of running amok—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —at this point. And he’s like— he already got his World Series ring so he’s—
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: —just like, “Now, it’s time to play house or whatever.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I think if you can maybe, like, drum up something embarrassing about him and force him to sell the team, that’d be great. That’d be great. Then we wouldn’t have to deal with him anymore.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That’d be great.
ALEX: All right. Well, 785-422-5881, if you have Jim Crane dirt—
BOBBY: This is a secure line.
ALEX: —this is a secure line. Hit us up on our signal. Also, I don’t think we need to give Ted Cruz that much power.
BOBBY: So what— what is— what is the implication here that he didn’t show up or something? Or he did show up and—
ALEX: I— yeah. I think the implication is that he— he showed up to the Wild Card games.
BOBBY: Did he get booed?
ALEX: I would have to assume so. I mean, that man gets boo at every—
BOBBY: Should we be checking that off the bingo card, then?
ALEX: Probably— probably yeah, but we already got— I mean, we already got bingo, so—
BOBBY: Yeah, but other people are still playing.
ALEX: True.
BOBBY: I want to get bingo a second time.
ALEX: I think having—
BOBBY: I’m not satisfied.
ALEX: I think having—
BOBBY: Job’s not done. Remember when they said that after they won the World Series last year? Someone on the Rangers was like, “Job’s not done.” And we were kind of like, “The job is done.”
ALEX: The job is done. No, it’s fine. I think having Josh Hader on your roster is far more comic— karmically punishable than having Ted Cruz be a fan of your team, I just want to say.
BOBBY: Yeah, just wanna buy a ticket. Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I mean, Francisco Lindor hugged Chris Christie before game three. Like, what are we talking about here? We can’t keep the politicians away.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: All right, let’s move on to the Orioles. We got three separate Orioles calls.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: So I’m not—
ALEX: Going through it.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s Bummer Town—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —in Baltimore right now. So I’m gonna play selections from those three voicemails.
SPEAKER 6: Hi, Alex. Hi, Bobby. Calling in for postseason therapy on the Baltimore Orioles. Where do I start? They made the postseason in back-to-back years for the first time since the mid-’90s. They jettisoned their old ownership group, fronted by infamous failson John Angelos. They have an exciting young core of Major League players. They have a beautiful ballpark. They have the farm system that ranks sixth in baseball according to FanGraphs. However, they’ve also now been swept out of the postseason for the second year in a row, and their playoff losing streak is now up to 10 games. We’re getting perilously close to Minnesota Twins levels of futility here. They haven’t won a playoff game since 2014. They haven’t been to the World Series in over 40 years. And a few key contributors from the 2024 season are almost certainly leading in free agency this off season, Corbin Burnes and Anthony Santander. A couple of other guys, Adley Rutschman took large steps backwards this year, most notably in his offensive performance, but also in catcher framing. And of course, perhaps most concerning is the performance from our eagerly anticipated top prospect, Jackson Holliday, who was sent down to work out some mechanical [53:17] after a disastrous April debut. But even though he had a hot two-week stretch in August after coming back, his triple slash line over the last six weeks of the season was a painful 180, 259, 230. Right now, our projected 2025 starting rotation is Grayson, Zach Eflin, Tyler Wells, Dean Kremer, and Trevor Rogers. Pretty scary, right? FanGraphs estimated Baltimore’s 2024 payroll at a $103 million, which is the third lowest in the American League and lower than any other playoff participant this year. Current estimates for 2025 are 79 million. I guess we’ll have to wait and kind of see what kind of money David Rubenstein is ready to throw around this winter, but there’s a lot of work to do to make this a team that will inspire hope in the hearts of its fans, or inspire fear in the hearts of its opponents come October. Yeah, can’t wait to hear what you guys have to say. Thanks.
JOEL: This is Joel. I’m an Orioles fan. Yeah. Fa— fan therapy is something we all need. I thought I was done with fan therapy after the team was sold in February. How foolish of me. The Orioles got their ass kicked in the Wild Card round for exactly the same reasons that you guys pointed out in the Narrative Ball episode. The Orioles spent three years dumpster diving for free agents that would not affect their bottom line and building up their farm system to be very good. And enjoyed telling anyone who would listen about how good their farm system was. The players they have, the young roster talent they have, was not experienced enough, was not built up enough to be able to withstand the pressure of October and withstand all collectively slumping at the same time and seemingly having no better leadership offensively to dig them out of that or— or snap them into form when it counted. And they ran into a team in the Royals that just spent over a $100 million in the offseason on new free agents, not even including the Bobby Witt contract, who didn’t even play that well, who just happened to get a couple of good hits with runners in scoring position, and did the absolute bare minimum to beat the Orioles in our own park. We have nothing to show for this rebuild, and the proof of concept of Mike Elias trying to build from the ground up for as little money as possible. And you have this whole segment of Orioles fans who are saying, “Oh, well, you know, you can’t really complain. You can’t do this and that, because the new owner has only been here for a few months, he hasn’t been able to spend money.” Well, their most expensive free agent and the guy that you traded for and took salary on for in Eloy Jimenez and Craig Kimbrel weren’t even on the postseason roster. The money they didn’t spend didn’t go anywhere for this team. And there’s just a feeling for how far you can go with this kind of approach. And I don’t know what the solution is, because Mike Elias has done a good job in the draft. He’s done a good job developing the farm system, but there’s a limit on this thing. I’m fed up with it, and I don’t know how to get past it. Go Mets.
SPEAKER 8: Okay, this is so fun. Currently watching the fourth game, Mets-Dodgers. Could use some post-playoff therapy. I live in Baltimore, number one Orioles fan. My parents live in Atlanta. I lived there for four years, and I spent 12 years in the Kansas City area, so I was prepared to choose one of those teams to root for all the way through. I had hopes. You know, I had three options, and all three of them let me down. So any advice, any uplifting words of wisdom for the rest of this postseason going into next season would be much appreciated. Thank you for all you do. Love the podcast. Okay. Thanks. Bye.
ALEX: Oh, Orioles fans.
BOBBY: Man, if ever there was proof that the Orioles fans are going through it more than any other fan base, that couple minutes stretch right there, that mash-up, that medley of Orioles fans going through it, that was it. Alex, I would say we have not hidden the fact that we don’t support everything going on in the Baltimore Orioles organization. We didn’t support their previous ownership group. We were skeptical about the new ownership group because of the fact that Mike Elias is running the team in his image, and it has reinforced a lot of the things that we felt would as one of the— one of these callers said, put a ceiling on the team. And so I turn it to you, and I say, what do you say to counteract all of that negativity?
ALEX: I say you’re valid. I say sit with that pain a little bit. I mean, frankly, they remind me— the Orioles remind me a little bit of the Padres in that they were, frankly, a punch line for their division for, like, a decade. They—
BOBBY: Except they weren’t though, because they— they had the most wins in the division for, like, a five-year stretch in the mid-2010s.
ALEX: I mean, yes. Okay.
BOBBY: And that’s everyone’s favorite stat to share. They didn’t actually really win the division many— very— many times.
ALEX: Right, right.
BOBBY: But they did a couple times, and they made the Wild Card a bunch of times.
ALEX: Yes, but there were points there when it was like, can the Orioles pull out of this nose dive? Where do they go from here? And they turned it around relatively quickly.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I— I know they didn’t win the division this year, but they won 91 games.
BOBBY: The team is good.
ALEX: It’s a good team.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: You are set up for success. It doesn’t mean you’re going to achieve that success. Certainly, there are plenty of variables to figure out. You’re putting a lot of hope in the hands of Mike Elias, which your mileage may vary on how much you— you trust that sort of thing. But— but between Gunnar, and Grayson, and Adley, it’s like, yes, did not look great at the end of the year. Also, what, their average age is, like, 23 or something like that? Like they got time. They got time.
BOBBY: They do have time. Here’s what I’ll say about the Orioles. It’s kind of put up or shut up time for tanking, I guess, for the Mike Elias way of running a team. Because we were told, right? It’s basically put up or shut up time for Moneyball is what I— what I really want to say, but that’s like a more salacious way of saying it, so I shied away from it, but that’s kind of the truth. We were told that Moneyball happened because they didn’t have the money to spend. Now, they have the money to spend. They have a rich owner who wants to invest in the team, who wants to win, according to him. So I’ve been told for decades at this point, but really with Mike Elias for, like, five years, that this is the smartest guy in baseball, that he develops players, that he chooses players, he drafts them and turns them into MLB talent better than anyone else. He’s doing the hardest part, the Orioles are doing the hardest part. So my advice and therapy to fans would be like, you guys are already ahead of the curve of 24 teams, basically. Nobody develops talent like this team. It’s absurd that they have this many guys at the Major League level who are good and still the sixth best farm system in FanGrab— by— by FanGraphs. That’s insane. When you call up your best players, your farm system is supposed to be like 30th, you know? Like there’s no other team like this that just continues to replenish the farm system. If anything like you— your Padres comparison is an apt one because of that. They keep replenishing— the difference is they actually trade those guys and get more roster depth at the Major League level out of it. The Orioles don’t want to do that because Mike Elias is a baby. He doesn’t actually want his team building strategies tested. He just wants to play in his little spreadsheet. All that being said, they— the Orioles don’t have an excuse anymore now. They’ve been swept out of two straight series. They aren’t good enough. They’re not good enough to win the World Series with this roster. And so you would think that Mike Elias could do the obvious thing. We’ve been told that all of these visionary GMs who have run the team on these Moneyball or advanced Moneyball principles, that the only reason they weren’t spending was because they didn’t have enough money, but if they did, then they would. But now it’s time for them to do it. And the Orioles as a silver lining, I would say, are entering a period of what should be stability. New owner who seems like he knows what he’s doing, and like, quote-unquote, “gets it.” New lease on the ballpark, one of the best ballparks in baseball. Strong, excited fan base, and, like, not a ton of competition in the AL East. Really, the— the Rays took a gigantic step back for a myriad of reasons that we don’t need to get into on this episode. Yankees are good, but like, they’re at the end of a window of their own. And the Yankees are always going to be good. Red Sox, I don’t really know what’s going on over there, to be honest. And the Blue Jays are a mess. So I honestly think that the Orioles will win the division next year, and I honestly think they’re the best team in the AL East for the next three years. So like, I true— I do sympathize with all of the frustration. They’re not going to go sign— they’re not going to extend Corbin Burnes for the biggest pitcher contract ever. They’re not going to sign Juan Soto. They’re not going to do those things, but there’s— there’s a difference between that and doing nothing, which is what they have been doing. And I think that that middle— how they strike that balance will determine how good they actually are. But they are going to have better players than just like— almost, like, definitionally, they have to start signing better players than just, like, Minor League free agents or, like—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —you know, guys that got DFA’d. Because the team demands it. The team is too good now to keep trying to do that. And if they keep doing that, then I’ll be proven wrong and—
ALEX: I don’t really know if this is bringing comfort to Orioles fans.
BOBBY: It should be, though. You know what I mean? Like, they— they are entering this point of stability where, like, the only thing left to do is the obvious thing.
ALEX: Right. Which is go on—
BOBBY: And the obvious thing will help.
ALEX: —and make the big splash.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Like, go out and do it.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: No, you’re right. And— and frankly, like, you can already kickstart the narrative now of—
BOBBY: Even the Astros did that.
ALEX: —of, look, this Orioles team now, they’re hungry. They felt the sting of the October elimination.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: You know? These young guys, they, you know, had a chance to take the league by storm, and they got bounced somewhat surprisingly maybe. Maybe not too—
BOBBY: Chip on their shoulder.
ALEX: Chip on their shoulder, exactly.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: So I do think, like, they certainly have a lane in the AL East. I— I mean, I understand your Moneyball comparison, but— but I think it doesn’t trac— it doesn’t dovetail entirely with the tanking thing, right? Because Moneyball is like, we won’t spend big on the field, but we’ll kind of, like, nibble around the edges, right? And we’ll just like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: We’ll cobble something together and see if we make a run. It’s like, the Orioles have put together a good baseball team. They, like, intentionally have a— a young core that if they want to, they can keep around, and they already will have for— for years at this point. So it’s like, yes, I agree it’s time for them to put up or shut up, but to your point, they’re miles ahead of— of most other baseball teams in the league right now. And so, like, I— that’s a pretty good position to be working from.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: They’ll be back here. No doubt.
BOBBY: Well, there’s a little bit of doubt. There’s always doubt. It’s baseball, right? It’s important to keep that doubt, though, right? It’s important to— like I said, kill the World Series expectations in your head earlier, for the Phillies. That makes it more enjoyable.
ALEX: Well, yes, but I’m not saying you have to expect World— I’m just saying the— the goal is to get to October. The goal is to be playing in October in my—
BOBBY: That’s not the Orioles goal anymore, though, I don’t.
ALEX: I mean—
BOBBY: Or the goal is like proof of concept here, guys, can we win a series when it actually matters?
ALEX: Sure. Okay.
BOBBY: All right, we have two teams left, two AL Central stalwarts, the Detroit Tigers and the Kansas City Royals. Dealer’s choice.
ALEX: Let’s do Royals.
BOBBY: All right.
FRANCESCA: Hi, Bobby. Hi, Alex. This is Francesca [1:05:53] and I’m calling about the Kansas City Royals. They’ve put me in this metaphorical therapy chair today, so look, objectively, incredible season, for reals. They lost 106 games last year. It was one of the most miserable seasons in my living memory. And this year, they made the playoffs. I mean, come on. They spent nearly the entire season above .500, if not actually in playoff contention. They flirted with first place at the end of the season, they made the playoffs, and they advanced in the playoffs. They weren’t— they— they didn’t just get swept and knocked out or anything. Like they showed up for a few games, at least. So I should be feeling incredible, I know that. And I do show a lot of happiness about the season and how it went. However, my overarching feeling is more of hatred, pure, undiluted sports hatred for the New York Yankees, everyone involved in that organization and every single one of their fans. I want nothing but pain and misery for them for the rest of their lives. And this is a very new feeling for me. Most of the time as a Royals fan, I’ve— I’ve had a very Midwestern sense of I just hope everybody has fun, because the implications for my team are— you know, they don’t matter. My team is never in it, except for two glorious seasons. Sorry, Bobby. So I don’t— I don’t know if I— I don’t know if that pain and that anger and that hatred are what I should be feeling, if I should lean into that, or if I should try to return to the sense of happiness and joy that feel like the healthy thing to feel. I don’t know. I don’t know. You guys— you guys tell me. Yeah, I’ll take my answer off the air. Goodbye.
BOBBY: I think as baseball therapists, we’re not supposed to tell people that they should lean into the anger and the hatred here. And honestly, orienting your fandom around hating the New York Yankees has not worked out for a lot of fan bases. Like just ask the Twins fans. Still waiting. They’re still waiting on that to work out for them. So I would say, yes, Francesca, you should just lean into your own team. Just lean into the young core. Lean into the fact that you probably have the best young player in baseball in Bobby Witt, Jr. The Royals, I think similarly to some of the other things that we’ve talked about, are like ahead of schedule, you know? They— their proof of concept is that they invested in the team in bringing in serious players, in signing their young star to an extension and making sure that he plays the majority, if not all, of his career in Kansas City. They’ve made kind of, like, all the right moves. Now, the moves get a little bit more treacherous now, because going from good to great is much harder than going from bad or mediocre to good, I think, which is crazy. Because, like, they were really bad a year ago. But I think that they are on a— a path, and I would say lean into that. And they’re like— they’re working from a point of strength in comparison to a lot of the other teams that we’ve talked about, because they already have their franchise cornerstone under contract for a decade, and so there is that certainty that sort of falls in line from that point down, that I think a lot of the other teams don’t have the benefit of. And I— I think sometimes we underrate how useful that is in terms of being able to convince a front office or an ownership group that, like, you have to keep trying, because we have Bobby Witt on the team. There’s no sense in being bad. We have Bobby Witt. And he didn’t look very good in this October, but this was his first taste of the playoffs. So, like, he is too good to be that bad again, and again, and again. So if you just keep giving your team chances, there’s going to be one October where he hits .415 and maybe that’s good enough to win the Royals as a World Series. You know, there are very few players in baseball who are like that, and you have one of them.
ALEX: I think it’s okay to lean into the anger and bitterness. I support it, frankly.
BOBBY: How’s that working out for you?
ALEX: Well, you know what? I— what— which anger and bitter— bitterness, what, over the A’s?
BOBBY: Well, I just mean like of the team that eliminates you, you know?
ALEX: Well, I haven’t had—
BOBBY: Have the A’s—
ALEX: I haven’t had to worry about that in a while.
BOBBY: I’m just saying, have the A’s beat the Yankees yet? They’re still waiting.
ALEX: Well, I’m not saying that being angry at the team makes your team perform better, but I do think there’s something to be said in sports fandom about, like, having enemies.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like having rivals a little bit.
BOBBY: True.
ALEX: I think there’s something that drives that passion a little bit more. Look, I’m fully supportive of let everyone have fun, but frankly, I think it’s a little more fun to feel a little anger for the team on the other side of the field.
BOBBY: All right.
ALEX: I’m— I’m not—
BOBBY: I’m into it.
ALEX: I’m not saying you need to approach the whole season that way on— on—
BOBBY: Yeah. How do we beat the Yankees?
ALEX: —on April 2nd, be like, you know, “If I see Aaron Judge, it’s on site.” But, like—
BOBBY: I think you could take them.
ALEX: But I think— I— I think so too, frankly.
BOBBY: Just throw him a slider down in the dirt.
ALEX: I don’t know. Also hating the Yankees is, like, I don’t know, a rite of passage for fans. Like, I think that’s— if nothing else, there is— there’s bonding in that. What— my point is, I think, it’s okay to, like, lean into the bitterness a little bit. You can wallow in that. Don’t try and push it down. Let yourself feel those feelings that you’re feeling. Those feelings are feelings that are worth feeling.
BOBBY: That’s great therapeutic advice. I think the Royals should sign Juan Soto.
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: I think that would be a preferable outcome for me.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Listen, Mets are not going to sign Juan Soto probably,
ALEX: Correct.
BOBBY: I— everybody’s kind of assuming he will just resign with the Yankees.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I guess the Phillies are kind of a dark horse contender and there’s a couple other teams who will probably make offers.
ALEX: The Phillies would be insane.
BOBBY: That would just be absurd at that point. They’re just recreating the 2019 Nationals. But, like, which is somewhat incredible, actually. Every good player on the Phillies, being a former National, is a hilarious bit.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Sorry to the Lerner family. But I don’t want him on the Yankees, and I certainly don’t want him on the Phillies.
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: So we need to get him as far away from the New York Mets as possible, in my mind, because I don’t think the Mets are gonna get him, so send him to the Royals. That’s my take. This is not really therapy so much as wish— wish casting.
ALEX: Yeah. But I— like, I think it’s okay to feel the anger and it’s okay to, like, look back to and feel a little bit of pride, be like, “Damn, look at how far this team has come from literally just a year ago.”
BOBBY: Yeah. Yeah. You— you have to— I know it’s hard to be reasonable sometimes as fans, but you have to be reasonable. I mean, come on, like 106 losses a year ago and a playoff series win this year, like it’s going all right [1:13:29]
ALEX: That’s what my therapist told me. It’s like, “Okay. I need you to be a little more reasonable. Now, can you just take— just take it down a notch? Stop spiraling on me.”
BOBBY: I mean, isn’t that what therapists kind of say?
ALEX: I mean— I mean, yeah. Be like, “Okay, okay. I need you to back up a little bit.”
BOBBY: Don’t let the intrusive thoughts win.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Don’t let the intrusive thoughts about going back to losing 106 games win. That’s not gonna happen.
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: The team is actually good.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: This is actually a legitimately good team.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: They’re good. So— and honestly, I feel like the Guardians are kind of fraudulent, so I feel like the AL Central is up for grabs. I always feel that way.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know? They might just wake up one year and just be like, “Eh, we want to be bad.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You know? That’s always a possibility. Okay. Onto our final team, the Detroit Tigers.
SPEAKER 10: Hey, guys, not first time, but long time, this shocker here. I have— I have a Tigers therapy need. So, you know, miracle run, where Tarik Skubal and a bunch of guys that we found on the street, they took us to the brink of the ALCS. And I’m having trouble kind of grasping this idea that they could get much better in the offseason. They could sign Pete Alonso and Teoscar Hernández. Maybe they reunite with Verlander. They— the— the young kids get better and so on and so forth. And next season, we could still miss the playoffs, because so much had to go right for this team to get to where it is at the end of the year. And replicating that is really just like a crapshoot. And so I guess my question is, how do I, A, like— like, make peace with that, that we could do all of the right things, and the right things could happen for us in terms of development, and we could end up much worse than we were— than we were this year? And I guess, B, like, how do the Tigers turn this into something that is replicable? How can we turn back the clock and pretend it’s 2011 or something and have a chance to go back to the World Series? Thanks. Can’t wait to listen. Bye.
BOBBY: The Tigers, to me, are like the most incomprehensible team in Major League Baseball.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Not only because what they did— they turned this miracle turnaround that they had, and they traded away their good players at the dead— like they traded away their best pitcher. It might have been nice to have Jack Flaherty for this playoff run, honestly.
ALEX: The Ti— well, not their best pitcher.
BOBBY: Well, good point. Good point. They traded away their best pitcher who they were ever gonna trade. Like, the best—
ALEX: Right, right, right. Yeah,
BOBBY: The best players on their roster, they were like, “You guys want ’em?” You know?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And then they turn it around right after that. It just doesn’t follow any narrative or logical sense. And it didn’t— what’s happened in the last five years of the team has also not followed narrative or logical sense. When they have given out a big contract, it’s been for the worst player in baseball. The hitters who came up, who they were expecting to be phenomenal, just can’t hit. What— some of the pitchers who you were like, “Yeah, these are can’t miss prospects,” just missed. I mean, it’s really nice that Tarik Skubal is not one of them, because they would be in really, really, really bad way without him. But it seems like all of the moves that they’ve expected to work out haven’t moved. All of the one— haven’t worked. All of the ones that they haven’t expected to work out kind of have. So I guess my piece of advice would be to— of all of the teams in the playoffs this year, I mean, and maybe this is the case with the Mets too, but they haven’t been eliminated yet, so this doesn’t really apply yet. It’s a real sort of like, don’t cry that it’s over. Smile because it— because it happened kind of year.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, you will get to carry the this team turned it around in bullshit fashion, like, for a while. You’ll be able to coast off of that. The expectations are not sky-high, you know? So, like, there was a little bit of wiggle room just to be able to have fun with it this year, kind of playing loosey-goosey, like, not really stressing about if we don’t advance past the ALDS, like serious change is coming.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So you have the best pitcher in baseball, if you can scrape together, like, anything else, you know, you are operating from a position of strength, again, in a division that is not very good, and was partially the reason that you were able to sneak in this year was because you’re just beating up on the worst team in baseball history.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And, like, the rest of the division kind of had a free fall outside of Cleveland. Or I guess— really, I’m talking about the Twins. The Twins kind of had a free fall too, which they’re kind of in a weird spot too, so I don’t know. I mean, are three teams from the AL Central going to make it in again next year? Probably not. But you’re basically, like, already ahead if you’re talking about it like a casino. Like you went in with basically $10 and you came out with, like, 50. You know? Are you going to be able to turn that into some gigantic jackpot next year? Probably not, but, like, net positive year, I would say.
ALEX: Yeah. I mean, more than any team we’ve talked about here real, like— you know, they weren’t supposed to be here vibes.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And—
BOBBY: Sort of felt that way at the end.
ALEX: Well— but again, there’s a— there is a lot to build off of. I think not a single player on their roster is hitting free agency after this year. Like, they have— they only have room to grow, really, and again, that’s putting a lot of faith in the front office.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But— but I do—
BOBBY: They need, like, three good signings.
ALEX: Yes. Yeah.
BOBBY: You know?
ALEX: But— but you’re starting from an all right spot. You don’t have this exodus of players. You already shipped all of them out at the deadline. So—
BOBBY: But, like, who even were those players that they traded away?
ALEX: I don’t know.
BOBBY: Canha, Flaherty, like—
ALEX: Right. Well, right.
BOBBY: I— they didn’t, like—
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: Nothing lost, nothing gained, really.
ALEX: Right. How’s Jack Flaherty doing?
BOBBY: Well, he did good in one game.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Do you think Jack Flaherty was tipping pitches?
ALEX: No, I’m tipping pitches. I— I think that, like— yeah, again, the— the Tigers arrived probably a little early this year, and so I think that means that, like, there is room for them to grow.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: I don’t think we should expect them to take a huge step forward and win 95 games next year. But, like—
BOBBY: Winning 95 games is overrated, though. That’s what I would say.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: There’s another piece of therapeutic advice for Tigers games— there’s no point winning 95 games.
ALEX: What about 94 or 6? Is it just 95 in particular that you’re anti?
BOBBY: Well, what I mean by that is, like, if it’s gonna be a crapshoot anyway, like if the AL Central is just a crapshoot every other year, or if the playoffs end up feeling like a crapshoot, it’s not like you have to be, like, this big, great team to get in. Now, you need to be good and like, replicably— replicably good. Sort of a hard phrase to say there. How many more years around the Javier Baez contract is an interesting question, because turning that into something else would be nice.
ALEX: Right. You’re saying big contracts don’t work?
BOBBY: I’m saying big contracts for bad players don’t work, and that’s a rare thing.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Bad players don’t usually get big contracts.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I can think of a few. Jason Bay comes to mind. Bryce Harper.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Manny Machado.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Trea Turner.
ALEX: Absolutely.
BOBBY: Waste of money.
ALEX: Waste.
BOBBY: Yeah. I think that whoever signs Juan Soto should only sign him for, like, a year, you know? Because we’re not sure about that guy yet.
ALEX: Right. One year—
BOBBY: Like a prove it deal.
ALEX: —like 20 million.
BOBBY: Prove it.
ALEX: Just with— laden with incentives.
BOBBY: I mean, yes, he’s been great for six full years, and he’s only 25, but what, that can’t turn around?
ALEX: Right. You’re expecting him to just continue to be great?
BOBBY: Yes, he still has five more years of his athletic peak and a skill set that translates seven years beyond that, but I’m supposed to just pay him for that?
ALEX: This is good. Keep going. The Tigers were in such a weird—
BOBBY: They should sign Juan Soto, dude.
ALEX: —limbo— I mean, they— the Tigers were in such a weird limbo period for a while.
BOBBY: Everybody but the Yankees and Phillies should sign Juan Soto.
ALEX: Okay. I mean, yes, that is— my baseball team should sign the best player.
BOBBY: Yeah. Talking about—
ALEX: I don’t know. They’re way— they, like, didn’t hit rock bottom. They didn’t have to hit rock bottom to get back to the playoffs—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —which is, like, weird.
BOBBY: Yeah, no, that’s cool, though.
ALEX: And it— and it is cool.
BOBBY: I think— but they probably felt like rock bottom a little bit there.
ALEX: Sure, yes, but it was not Astros-Orioles kind of take down tank.
BOBBY: Yeah, it wasn’t three or four straight years, yeah.
ALEX: So I don’t know. I guess this is how you build something sustainable, maybe, add bit by bit.
BOBBY: Yeah, don’t have shitty players. They’re like— they’re like the best example, other than the guy who gets— makes the most money on the team, of not having, like, really bad players on the roster.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: They just don’t have— but they also just don’t have very many— they have a lot of, like, league average guys.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I don’t know. And I mean, like—
ALEX: Yeah, lots of bi— wide error bars for this team.
BOBBY: They have, like, a couple young hitters who are like— you feel solid about, like Riley Greene and—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —Kerry Carpenter, and weirdly, like, Matt Vierling was hitting third for this team in the playoffs, so—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —you probably want him hitting like seven through eight.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Ideally. But I don’t know. I mean, they feel like a de— like a team that is, like, decently situated to basically do what the Royals did from last year to this year. It’s just that they didn’t lose a 106 games. They weirdly, for some inexplicable reason when they tried to get worse, got better.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And so it’s not beyond the pale that they might just like be a solid to good team next year, and win enough games in like a mediocre division or in a league that is sort of, like, stars and scrubs at this point that they could sneak into another Wild Card. I wouldn’t hate that.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Did we do a good job?
ALEX: I’ve— I mean, I think that’s up to our patients to decide.
BOBBY: Like— like whether they schedule another session?
ALEX: Yeah, right. Exactly. Do you feel fixed?
BOBBY: I’m gonna go check to see our reviews on Zocdoc. Our reviews on psychologytoday.com.
ALEX: If you did call in—
BOBBY: What health insurances do we take? Besides IBX, the Phillies sponsor.
ALEX: I’ve— goddammit. I was about to make that joke.
[laughter]
BOBBY: We take Starr Insurance, the Yankees jersey—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —sponsor. We take IBX, the Phillies jersey sponsor.
ALEX: Starr Insurance, which is property insurance.
BOBBY: Like, property insurance. Yeah, exactly. Your fandom is your property.
ALEX: Your property, yeah.
BOBBY: I had this thought last night, and I had nowhere to put it, but I have— we have a baseball podcast, so here’s where I’ll put it. The Yankees refusing to put names on the back of their jerseys, and having, like, 38 numbers retired, and acting like the pinstripes is the biggest honor in sports, and not letting their guys grow beards, all of this bullshit pageantry stuff that the Yankees do. And having an insurance company as a jersey patch is truly the most loser shit I could possibly imagine of any sports franchise. They are so embarrassing. Like, I know that they’re good and they’re probably gonna, like, win the World Series or whatever, but like this current moment of MLB, like, squeezing every amount of juice out of this orange feels just the most incongruous with that franchise, specifically, because they are doing debasing nonsense to make an extra $7 million a year.
ALEX: Right. If there’s any team that would say we’re—
BOBBY: While also trying—
ALEX: —too good for a jersey patch—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —like—
BOBBY: But they can’t do it. They can’t do it because Hal is not actually a billionaire. He’s a billionaire’s son.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And he just— he can’t live up to the whole, like, Yankees legend. It’s dead to me. It’s dead. They have a jersey sponsor.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, stop. It’s over. Honestly, tear down Monument Park. Rebuild the stadium. You know what I mean? Like, it’s so embarrassing, and I got really mad about it last night, but I had no, like, impetus for it or no place to put it, so I’m just saying here at the end of this episode.
ALEX: I’m glad you shared that with me. This was good. This is a little bit of your own fan therapy, which, again, mostly centered on hating the Yankees, so that’s why I said, hey, Francesca, you’re not alone.
BOBBY: It’s just so silly. They’re like, “We’re better than you, yet we have a property insurance ad on our fucking arm.” It’s like, “You’re not better than anyone, actually. You’re actually kind of embarrassing.”
ALEX: Yeah. Get their assess—
BOBBY: You’ll cut someone if they grow beard. Like, what is this? What’s happening here?
ALEX: Yeah, it’s a goofy, corny franchise, that— it’s pretty good at baseball, too.
BOBBY: They’re fine.
ALEX: They’re fine.
BOBBY: They’re fine.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Do you have any takes about them cake walking to the World Series, like the easiest path in recent memory?
ALEX: Nope.
BOBBY: I don’t, either.
ALEX: Don’t care. Still had to win the games.
BOBBY: Yeah, they played who was in front of them.
ALEX: Yep.
BOBBY: If you don’t like it, play better.
ALEX: Play better. I gotta say, pretty funny that this whole— these whole playoffs, we’ve been like, oh, the NL side, so fascinating. AL side, so boring. And this ALCS has been riveting. Just loser NLCS.
BOBBY: Yeah, it’s been a dud.
ALEX: Just like— I mean, like, I know that we’re still— you know, 3-2 series at this point, but like not a single competitive game.
BOBBY: This is what happens when you let analytics run the game.
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: Well, stay with your low leverage guys, because that increases the chances of winning tomorrow. If Dave Roberts had gone to the high leverage guys earlier, Dodgers could have won game—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —game five. Yep, game five. They cut the lead in half.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: But no, the woke front office told him send in Brent Honeywell. Brent Honeywell pitching, getting the most outs of any Dodgers pitcher this series is—
ALEX: Really funny.
BOBBY: —awesome.
ALEX: Really sick.
BOBBY: Awesome shit.
ALEX: Also, every time he comes in, I’m like, “Oh, Glasnow is pitching. Just— nope. That’s not him.”
BOBBY: Do you think Brent Honeywell looks like Glasnow?
ALEX: I mean, he’s got the flow.
BOBBY: Yeah, but Glasnow’s hair straight, and Honeywell has curly hair.
ALEX: No, it’s like wavy.
BOBBY: I guess you’re right. It’s wavy.
ALEX: It’s mostly just for whatever reason—
BOBBY: But Brent is like a wet guy, though.
ALEX: No, I know. It’s for whatever reason, it’s just like—
BOBBY: And the turtleneck real—
ALEX: This is a— this is a sort of tall pitcher with—
BOBBY: Yeah. They have similar stuff, too.
ALEX: —with flow, who came from the Rays. That’s it. That’s all it is for me.
BOBBY: Yeah, they have similar pitch profiles as well.
ALEX: I don’t even know what that means.
BOBBY: I’m being sarcastic. Brent’s done a great job this series. Congratulations to Brent.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Friend of the Bar-B-Cast.
ALEX: Wow. Already congratulating Dodgers players on their series?
BOBBY: You know who I won’t be congratulating? Fucking Max Muncy. Fuck that guy. If he wanted to have my appreciation, he should have been good on the A’s. Show up for a small market franchise, Max.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Yeah.
BOBBY: Oh. He goes to the Dodgers, the fat cats in LA, and suddenly, he decides to play well?
ALEX: Yeah, I can fucking play well.
BOBBY: Man, they’re so good. All right. Well, hopefully you enjoyed this episode of Tipping Pitches. If you didn’t, go call your own therapist and ask why you’re spending two hours listening to a podcast that you don’t like very much. If you want to call us, if you’re a fan of the Mets, Dodgers, Yankees or Guardians, and your team gets eliminated over the next few days, and you want some postseason therapy about it, the number is 785-422-5881. We’ll be back later this week, likely on Thursday morning, with a World Series preview and a recap of the rest of the championship series. And if you’re a patron, you should be getting a Patreon episode Three Up, Three Down around Wednesday or Thursday as well. So a lot of stuff on the horizon. Really looking forward to seeing how this championship series play out. Mets with their backs against the wall. It’s going to be fun. We went— somehow went through this whole episode and didn’t talk about Jhonkensy Noel’s home run and the Brian Anderson call, which was just, like, incredible shit.
ALEX: Unbelievable. Yeah.
BOBBY: But hey, you probably already listened to, like, four podcasts about that by now. So thank you for listening, and we will be back later this week.
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello, everybody. I’m Alex Rodriguez. Tipping Pitches. Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most. Tipping Pitches. So, we’ll see you next week. See ya!
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