Alex still isn’t back from his so-called “vacation,” so please enjoy this special episode of “three up, three down” with friend of the show Hannah Keyser (unlocked from our Patreon)! Follow Hannah on Twitter @HannahRKeyser.
To find more episodes like this, you can subscribe to our Patreon for the full back catalogue at patreon.com/tippingpitches.
Tipping Pitches features original music from Steve Sladkowski of PUP.
Transcript
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and be able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitch and kind of help out so he wasn’t tipping his pitches. So tipping pitches we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand what tipping pitches all about? That’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Hello, dear listener, as you might have gleaned from the title and the description of this episode, Alex is still not back. Scheduling around the travel was just a little bit more challenging than we anticipated, so I wanted to do a little housekeeping before we start this episode here, which is an unlocked episode from our Patreon with friend of the show, Hannah Keyser, doing Three Up, Three Down. An old segment that you might recognize here on the main feed, and one that we do every other week over on the Patreon feed. That’s patreon.com/tippingpitches. So if you like what you are about to hear, you can go find our entire back catalog of the last, I guess, half year of doing Patreon episodes every other week, a lot of really great stuff in there that we’re, I guess, proud of. Alex will be back next week, and on that episode, we will catch up on everything that he missed in the time that he was away traipsing around Europe. I’m really looking forward to talking about some of these stories over the past couple weeks. It’d be super helpful if you all have topics that you want to hear us cover, if you could send them over to tippingpitchespod@gmail.com. If you want to call our voicemail, it’s 785-422-5881. DM us on Twitter, tipping_pitches. Sorry, DM us on X, the everything app. Yeah. Questions, topics, concerns, thoughts, heading into the final stretch of the 2024 Major League Baseball regular season. We’re taking any and all suggestions, because I know that Alex was not following baseball that closely while he was on vacation. Those are the first two things. The final thing is over these last couple weeks, I know many of you listened and reached out, and said very nice things about our betting pod, our fictional betting scandal pod. And if you haven’t listened to that, and you’ll listen to that right now, I would suggest, along with listening to this episode with Hannah, which was really fun to record, and thank you to Hannah for filling in, guest co-host on the Patreon feed, the first ever. Along with listening to this episode, go back and check those two episodes out. Part one, where we scripted and sound designed and voice acted, and all of that good stuff, a betting scandal of our own design. And part two, where we talked with friend of the show, Bradford William Davis, about how Major League Baseball might actually handle a scandal like this, what would come of it, whether they’re prepared for it, how different scandals over the last decade, half decade have informed how we think they might handle it. Bradford, incredibly smart, one of the smartest baseball writers and thinkers out there, and a good friend of ours. So that was really great, too. That was last week, and then the previous week. So if you’re behind on Tipping Pitches, lot of really great stuff for you, as well as a lot of great stuff coming up when Alex comes back next week. And I hope you enjoy this unlocked Patreon— this unlocked Patreon episode from last week. We’ll talk to you soon.
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BOBBY: Hannah Keyser, hello. We are breaking format today on the Patreon feed. You’re the first person who is not me or Alex to ever appear on a bonus episode. How does that make you feel? Is that a lot of pressure? Am I putting too much pressure on you off the jump?
HANNAH: I wonder if I didn’t— I— I didn’t know that. Well, no, I’m honored. It’s actually, in some ways— this is maybe a— this is a— a compliment to your Patreon subscribers, but it’s less pressure because, like— you gotta— you gotta, actually already have bought into the concept of the pod to be listening to me.
BOBBY: I completely agree. That’s why every week we do the Patreon, we’re like, “Should we just only do this? Should we just only do the ones where, like, the people are really nice?”
HANNAH: Yeah. Right. The only people listening— yes, yes. Like, people already like what you do, so less pressure in that sense.
BOBBY: You’re here to do Three Up, Three Down.
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: Which is the segment that we used to do on the public feed, and now we just decided that would be our Patreon every couple weeks, because it’s a reliable way—
HANNAH: Because these people already like you.
BOBBY: —to talk about baseball and a format that keeps us on the rails, somewhat.
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: Normally, we would start with like a— like Alex would probably be in the middle of doing, like, a five-minute Bruce Springsteen impression, and I would just leave all that shit in, because it’s a Patreon feed, you know? People are already here, but we— we can just jump right into it if— if you’re ready, if you feel good, unless you want to like—
HANNAH: Well, no— I mean, now, I feel like I should be doing an impression of someone or something, but I mean—
BOBBY: Would you like to do an impression of one of the 30 baseball GMs maybe?
HANNAH: No. I was going to say I am— this is like— my— my— my husband could vouch for this. I am constantly weirdly doing an impression of— if you can hear an ump. If an ump gets caught on a— a loud on, like, a hot mic, I instinctively mimic him. Like, this is the kind of shit you find out when you’ve, like, lived with someone for, like, 11 years. Like, it’s— I would never have noticed about myself, except for that— there’s, like, another person who’s been observing me watch baseball for over a decade and, like— just, like, under my breath, I’ll do this. So, like, if they catch the— the ump— like, not even the interesting, like, strikeout calls. I mean, literally, he’s just like, “That’s a little outside.” Like—
BOBBY: Right.
HANNAH: —at home on the— I go, “That’s a little outside.” Like, I don’t know why.
BOBBY: It’s funny to imagine, like, your long-term partner basically being like a— a scout who was assigned to you who was— whether or not—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —the team wants to sign you. There was a—
HANNAH: That’s exactly right. He would be like, “For some reason— so he’s mimicking the umps.”
BOBBY: Right. My scouting report would be like, “For some reason, he just walks around singing just the hook of OMG by Jose Iglesias, but not the rest of the words.”
HANNAH: I— yesterday, I was at the ballpark— you— we were just talking about this, and Kenley Jansen, not of the Mets, was wearing an OMG shirt.
BOBBY: I know, I almost put that in my ups this week. I did not—
HANNAH: Oh, really?
BOBBY: —so we’re not stepping on the ups, yeah.
HANNAH: Oh, it’d be good.
BOBBY: But that was really cool.
HANNAH: And he was walking around and— and again, my spouse is [6:31] talking about baseball. When I got home, I had posted a picture, and he was like, “Why was he wearing an OMG shirt?” And I said, “I don’t know. Somebody asked him that, and I walked away before I could hear the answer. Sorry, I’m no help.” But he was walking around the park, going, “Oh, my God.” So he at least had heard the song [6:46] or he could infer what the lyrics were from the title.
BOBBY: Kenley Jansen, extremely relatable. I did see that— apparently, like, he owns his own record label, and so he admires—
HANNAH: I [6:57]
BOBBY: —what Jose Iglesias is doing and— and how successful it’s become. Particularly across the league, I think OMG seems to be popular in all clubhouses.
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: Not just in the New York Mets clubhouse.
HANNAH: Kenley is truly delightful. Like, I— I find him to be, like, one of the more incongruously relatable baseball players. Like, there’s no reason for that—
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
HANNAH: —man to be relatable to me. He is— how tall? Let’s Google. He’s a Curaçaoan baseball player who’s, like, six-foot-seven maybe, six-foot-five. And yet, I find him easy to talk to and, like, chill.
BOBBY: He has an incredible vibe and—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: —that means a lot for a closer. I feel like closer is really your vibe, burns out in 18 months. Like as soon as you start blowing saves, but somehow he has maintained— I mean, various fan bases, particularly the Dodgers, have had their—
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: —ups and downs with him over the years. But every Dodgers fan that I know just had a lot of love and respect for him. And when he would come into the game, it would be such a thing. Like he was coming into California love every time. It was just a fun thing at Dodger Stadium. Like, I— I miss those days. Now, it’s just sort of sad that he has to be walking four people in one inning for the Boston Red Sox, who, at the moment, are incredibly cursed.
HANNAH: Big— big therapy guy. I don’t know if your listeners know that, but—
BOBBY: Oh, is that right?
HANNAH: Yes, I love a baseball player who goes to therapy, and he is—
BOBBY: There are so few of them. Well, actually, I think they’re probably more than we think, but there are so few of them who are willing to talk about it.
HANNAH: Right. I was going to put as one of my downs, so again, not stepping on your toes, just Edwin Diaz being even slightly diminished. I— I—
BOBBY: I know.
HANNAH: That’s— I want him to never be even a little bit— bit— like that’s the thing with Edwin Diaz. And that’s true about the thing with— this is sort of what you’re getting at. With all closers, it’s like I am only interested if— if you’re perfect, sorry. Like, that’s— and that’s hard. That’s— I— I could never be a closer, because that’s an impossible way to go through life, but it’s true. That it’s like Edwin Diaz as completely lights out, sure thing, utterly reliable. The only kind of tension is like, will he have a perfect inning? Sort of—
BOBBY: Right.
HANNAH: Love it. Great. Fantastic character in baseball. Even slightly diminished Edwin Diaz, you’re like, “Oh, it’s a guy who pitches one inning sometimes.” I—
BOBBY: I—
HANNAH: —I feel bad saying that, but it’s true. You know what I mean? It’s like— it’s closer really the— the razor thin bar between, like, line— between being like, this is the most interesting person at the ballpark right now and, like, that’s just a guy who doesn’t do as much work as the other guys.
BOBBY: To me, it’s sort of— it’s like Wizard of Oz syndrome. Like, as soon as you pull back the curtain and see him—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —blow up a couple times, you’re like, “Well, shit, this is just a guy.” You know, this is just like—
HANNAH: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: This is not the superstar guy who comes in with this music that’s so dramatic and like— although Edwin looked good yesterday. He touched one on one, two, three straight times to close out that game, so I don’t know. Encouraging sign. Mets fans are like, “We gotta find a way to get him the sticky stuff back.”
HANNAH: I mean, reasonable. All right.
BOBBY: You ready to do it? You want to do some Three Up, Three Down?
HANNAH: So let’s do it.
BOBBY: So we usually start with the downs—
HANNAH: Let’s just [10:04]
BOBBY: —so we can get them out of the way first.
HANNAH: Okay.
BOBBY: So since you’re the guest—
HANNAH: Okay.
BOBBY: —I’ll let you do the honors and go first.
HANNAH: Okay. This is good because I’m starting with one that really feels like I knew you were going to start there, because it’s very holistic. Things that I think are bad this baseball season is this baseball season. It’s a bad baseball season.
BOBBY: Wow. Great. Great take. I love this. I have been circling a take like this for the last—
HANNAH: Really?
BOBBY: —basically two months on the pod. Yeah. I’m like, “What is the story here?”
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: “What are we doing?”
HANNAH: What is the story here?
BOBBY: “Like, what— what is this year?”
HANNAH: I have so many— I have so many ways that I can get into this. Okay. I’ll work a little peek behind the scenes. I’ve been doing some freelancing and— and I had a story. I was, like, working on, like, a long list of pitches. And I thought it was interesting that there were— we’re on pace for no 100-win teams for the first time in a decade.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
HANNAH: And I was kind of, like, “Interesting.” And thinking of super teams, what’s, like, an interesting angle on that? I’m like, “Well, everyone’s mediocre, so, like, expanded postseason field, maybe that’s made everybody a mediocre.” And so I was, like, working on this pitch that was, like, what’s more interesting or what’s better, like, super teams? Or everyone’s kind of hanging around in it ’till the end? And then I looked and everyone is not hanging around in it ’till the end. Somehow, there are no good teams, and not even that many— there are great teams and not even that many good teams. I was like, “Where— where are the wins? How—”
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: “Who is winning?” Because there are no— we are not on pace for any 100-winning teams. The Dodgers are on pace for, like, 97 and that’s the best. And yet, the playoff races are already decided.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
HANNAH: That doesn’t— those two things seem mutually exclusive. It seems like it’s like if they’re not separating out to the extremes, shouldn’t they all be close? But they’re not, somehow. So how’s that— how’s that happening? There is only— the— the wild card— like the— the divisions, whatever, but the wild card picture, the Boston Red Sox are the closest to the wild card picture in the AL. They are five and a half games back, and, as you said, currently cursed.
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: The only reason they have lost, like, more ground is because the Kansas City Royals are also playing poorly, but they’re in the postseason picture. In the AL, no team not currently in the postseason has playoff odds over 8.4%.
BOBBY: That’s just godawful. Like, that is really bad.
HANNAH: There’s just nothing left to be determined. Like— and then it’s in— it’s only the Mets in the NL. Mets are half a game back. Very exciting. And then it just falls off from there. In— in May, Sam Miller tweeted, “There are only six good teams. I’ve never seen anything like it.” And I have thought about that tweet constantly—
BOBBY: It’s [12:36]
HANNAH: —since, because I’m like, “You’re right. That’s the problem.” It’s like, there are no great teams, and really only six good teams.
BOBBY: I saw that tweet, and I was like, “Six? Name ’em.”
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: It’s tough, because also—
HANNAH: How—
BOBBY: —like, even the teams or the division races that are supposedly supposed to be contentious, there’s, like, varying degrees of dissatisfaction with all of them. You know, the Orioles—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: —and the Yankees, in theory, are hammering it out, or have been hammering it out for most of this calendar year for the best record in baseball, and yet, they both feel incredibly flawed.
HANNAH: I was gonna say— yeah.
BOBBY: The Orioles should have been ascending and, like, they’re going to win fewer games than last year, and have questions just as pressing as they did heading into the postseason last year. Now, granted just small sample size, they got eliminated by a team that was incredibly hot last year. They could go on to win the World Series this year, very likely. Well, not very likely, but as likely as likely gets in this sport. But it’s just like— you would like to see the two teams that are sort of like, you know, butting heads all season. You’d like to see them humming a little bit more. It seems like which team can—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: —fail less, which is not super compelling. And on top of all of that, the White Sox have lost approximately 297 games this year.
HANNAH: Uh-huh. Yeah.
BOBBY: And still those wins have not been distributed to— to other teams to make them appear better.
HANNAH: Right. Like, where—
BOBBY: And it’s like— it’s like they’re just losing— they’ve lost all the teams that they would have lost to last year, as well as the teams that are supposed to be bad, too. They’ve just lost everyone. And so, like—
HANNAH: It’s—
BOBBY: —for example, the 80s are, like, 18 games under.
HANNAH: It feels like a mad conundrum almost.
BOBBY: It’s— it’s really bad.
HANNAH: Like— like where are the wins going? Who is good? I— I do SNY occasionally, like TV and stuff, and we always like to talk some Yankees, even though it’s primarily Mets. And it feels like every time we talk about the Yankees, we’re talking about how bad the Yankees are and— right. Like, that’s—
BOBBY: Yeah, and how poorly constructed and how everyone’s making the wrong decisions.
HANNAH: Right. It’s like, “Ah, it’s not looking good. They don’t have, like—” like, it’s— and we truly they do a segment that’s like, “How are the vibes?” or whatever, and—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: —frequently, we are diagnosing the vibes are better on the Mets than they are in the Yankees. And I’m like, “The Yankees are a very good team. And you’re right, the vibes are not that good.”
BOBBY: The power of love and the power of friendship is power in the New York Mets. Sean Manaea and Luis Severino—
HANNAH: It’s so bad.
BOBBY: —being the two guys you would most want to be around in a baseball clubhouse. That’s right.
HANNAH: It’s— this season is bad. It’s a bad baseball season. I would have been interested in— to get back to this sort of, like, original pitch that I had, which was like, is it more interesting to have super teams or is it more interesting to have close races? That’s a— that would have been— if we actually had close races, that would have been an interesting kind of, like, counterbalance to a decade of super teams, because we really have had, like, a decade of super teams, and it’s been— it’s like— been 100 plus win teams, and several seasons with many 100-win teams. And so—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: —to— to kind of have, like, a break from that would have been an interesting, potentially, like analytical point, narrative point, something new for us to consider [15:32] But then instead, we’re just getting, like, no one’s happy with their team.
BOBBY: Yeah. And one of the things that I was trying to articulate, I think, on the Patreon a couple months ago, was that also it feels like no team knows why they’re good or bad. Like—
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: —it feels like GMs are less in control of whether they want to be all in or all out, or just, like, shooting the gap than they ever have been.
HANNAH: We all have been shooting the gap [15:58]
BOBBY: Well, that’s what I mean. Like, I feel like—
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: —that’s the problem. This is the logical conclusion of 15 years of everyone building their team exactly the same way, which is to say everyone trying to do as much of the Rays shit as their fan base will accept.
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: Like, that’s basically what’s been happening for the last 15 years, all to lead a bunch of teams to be very similar. Like, they’re all just very— every team is, like, pretty similar.
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: Similarly constructed, similarly managed. And this is not even, like, an anti-analytics rant. This is not even like a we should all be Ned Yost free thinkers rant. Like this— it’s just like every team is just kind of the same, you know? And they’re all just, like, good and bad in the same ways, except for the teams that are just intentionally trying to lose as many games as possible, of which there is always going to be somewhere between five and 10. Just because that’s the [16:43]
HANNAH: And yet somehow that’s not the White Sox.
BOBBY: No. No. No. What’s going on there is, like, there’s some spiritual stuff.
HANNAH: They’re not trying to lose as many games as possible, and yet, here we are.
BOBBY: I’m like, surprised that— at the— what’s— what’s going on with the A’s, because heading into the season, we were kind of like, “Wow, this is really— they’ve cut bait.”
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: Everybody last year, maybe not record-wise, they weren’t as bad as the White Sox’s like, run differential. They were just as bad. They were getting smoked every night. And they’re, like, not that bad this year. So I’m almost like, “Can you even build a bad team for three straight years, if everyone is just developing players the exact same?”
HANNAH: No. Right. It’s like—
BOBBY: And can you build a great team for 10 straight years? Unless you’re going to be like the Dodgers and— and just spend—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —$270 million every year.
HANNAH: At the draft last year, so 2023 [17:29] I wrote something about that was, like, looking back at, like, starting with the Sixers and the process and the whole, like— the history, because I was in— it was the occasion of the draft lottery, kind of coming in. Like, what happened to tanking and all of that. And, you know, it’s the— the conclusion was that, like, someone has to finish last every year, but also only one team can finish last every year. So, like, tanking kind of had like a— like, an expiration date as soon as it started as a strategy, just because it was like—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
HANNAH: —this is really only going to work when, like, two teams are out ahead of everybody else, as soon as, like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: —anyone else catches on. You just— you just get stuck, like, mired in what we have now, which is, like, teams that aren’t quite willing to commit to being the worst team, because they can’t kind of guarantee they’re going to be the worst team. But then they’re also like, “But we’re not good.” It’s like, instead of tanking, we’ve replaced that with just, like, teams that are like, “It doesn’t look great for us this year, so we’re just gonna hang out in the kind of, like, middle back.”
BOBBY: Yeah. We’ve replaced it with, like, rate-limiting teams. Like teams that are just like—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: They’ve put a ceiling on themselves.
HANNAH: Right. Exactly. Probably like, “Yeah—”
BOBBY: And they’re like— probably get somewhere near that, but we don’t know how close to that we’ll get.
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like the A’s— the A’s will never— they could have never with the roster that they had in the investment that they had, finished better than 10 games under .500, right? And that’s like they’ve gotten closer to that than we expected, but that was always going to be the outcome, right?
HANNAH: Right. Right.
BOBBY: I don’t know. It’s—
HANNAH: All right.
BOBBY: My first down, I think, falls right in line with what you’re talking about. My first down is whatever the hell’s happening with the Mariners. Like, they—
HANNAH: Oh, great call.
BOBBY: I just feel like the facade just got ripped back from that organization very abruptly this season. Like, they were finally leading the division. Finally felt like, “Okay, we’ve been waiting a decade for the Astros to finally fall off.” You know? There was all these pieces written after the Astros 2017 and after their 2019 appearances in the postseason. Like, all these pieces written about how stacked they were and how set they were for years to come. And we finally were getting to the logical conclusion of that. And then just their fates just changed. And the Mariners just— just went in the tubes, and they just can’t hit, and they can’t develop a hitter. And they can’t even, like, buy a hitter on the free agent market, in part because, I mean, it’s a pitcher’s park, number one. Number two—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: —their— their organization, is clearly, you know, on the seesaw, like, all the way down on the side of pitcher development. They’re so good at that, and maybe they haven’t put the right resources into hitting development, or they just haven’t found the right people or prospects. But then also, like, they don’t pay the premium for the hitters who you know are going to be good no matter what, in all— in all ballparks. They pay like— they try to pay— be like a middle-class team, and you’re going to get, like, middle-class outcomes on free agents when you do that. Like, when you try to pick from the guy— the guys who are a little bit on the older side, or the guys whose power comes and goes year to year. Like, it’s just never going to be as reliable as you’re hoping that it will be to fix this organizational problem that you have. And then from the top down, like they’ve just completely lost the thread this year. Like they fired Scott’s service, but they ha— mishandled it, royally. And I feel like, finally, we are getting the answers to, like, is Jerry Dipoto a good GM? I feel like—
HANNAH: The answer is no.
BOBBY: No. I feel like the answer is no, and— but he’s just a busy GM. And, like, at some point, you kind of just, like, have to have a strategy more than just win today. You know, like— you’re like, win this individual trade. Like you have to be—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —willing to, like, lose a couple things, and in some cases, like, not have the best financial outcome in order to see that that didn’t work out, and hit on a bigger upside player, either in free agency or via trade.
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, they just haven’t been able to get themselves over the hump, and they just left the door open for the Astros, who, as we see, just continue to make a deal with the devil.
HANNAH: Or inevitable.
BOBBY: Yeah, they’re just, like— they’re the Death Star.
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: It just keeps getting rebuilt, you know? Like, so I— I— it just bums me out. Like it— that team should be good. That team should— we should have a sort of, like, replacing of the guard— the old guard. Like, we should be cycling the Astros out. It’s time, and yet, like, the AL West is just sad, and the Mariners just, like, completely just ran out of gas. And due—
HANNAH: I thought about making one of— one of my [21:50] just the firing of Scott Servais, because, like, pretty [21:52] Scott Servais is, like, one of my guys, I really enjoy him. I have— I spent somehow, like completely coincidence, the last weekend of the baseball season in both 2022 and 2023 spent in Seattle. In 2022, it was because they had just made the postseason, and I was—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
HANNAH: —like, “Wow, I’m gonna go. It’s gonna be so much fun.” And then in 2023, it was because the AL West very excitingly, contrary to this season, came down to the last weekend that was, like, such a good end of the— a regular season, where it was like all three—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: —teams could have made it, or only one could make it, or two could make it, and any two could make it out of the Rangers, Astros, and Mariners. And it ended up that the Astros and Rangers made it and the Mariners did not. And I— like, whether it’s because, like, the city is like a really fun place to go to a baseball game. The ballpark is a really fun place to go to a baseball game. Julio is an incredible superstar to, like, build around. The pitching is so singular in that it’s like all homegrown, all really good and actual good rotation, and not just like— like expensive guys who break down midway through the season. Like, it’s such a— it— I, like, want them— to your point, it’s like, I want them to be a new kind of good team, kind of like, “Oh, this is fun.: And it is really remarkable that they have the most obvious, in some ways, problem that they just keep not throwing money yet. Like, it’s kind of, like, the—
BOBBY: Exactly.
HANNAH: —same thing as last year and then the year before. Like, you just—
BOBBY: Right.
HANNAH: —you had not enough hitting, and then you had not enough hitting, and so then you were like, “What have we got, not enough hitting?” Like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: —it’s like a weird like— it’s like I can’t believe that [23:33] got different— like, it’s like they— I’m gonna just check the record. They just missed the postseason, then they just made the postseason, then they just missed the postseason. And I’m kind of like, “Guys, you just— like, 10% more money into hitting or something.” Like, you know what I mean? Like, not that simple, but like, kind of that simple. Like, it’s just like you— it— it was— it’s like, I don’t know how you— being a GM, I know is part in the details—
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: —but that feels like the not details. You’re right. It’s like— it’s like if you’re good in any way—
BOBBY: It does.
HANNAH: —figure out the fact that— yeah, they finished 90 and 72 and missed the postseason in 2021. 90 and 72 and just made the postseason in 2022. And then 88 and 74 and just missed the postseason last year. It’s like just get a little more hitting.
BOBBY: I know. Just do the obvious things. Like, just do—
HANNAH: Do the obvious thing.
BOBBY: It’s not like we’re— people— I don’t think— Mariners fans, I don’t think that people like you and I, who appreciate the Mariners as a team and a vibe and a fan base, like, maybe would consider them like our second or third preferred team.
HANNAH: Yes. Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, I don’t think anybody is reasonably saying, “Go spend $315 million,” like the Mets or the Dodgers. I think people are saying like, “Do one of— one of the seven things that Dave Dombrowski did when he took over the Phillies.” Like, just do the obvious thing. Please, just do the obvious thing.
HANNAH: Right. Right.
BOBBY: And it’s— it’s clear. Like, it’s— it’s become more and more clear over the last few years that, like, Stanton is just like, “No, I won’t do that.” He’s just doesn’t—
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, the owners just do not want to do that. It. And I’ve gone back and forth on Dipoto and GMs like Dipoto, where it’s like, do I judge you based on, like, what I think you’re allowed to do, or do I judge you based on what I think you should be doing? And at the end of the day, like, if you’re still that GM and you’re not willing to, like, make a stand for signing good hitters, like, that’s basically the GM that you want to be. It’s how I felt about Chaim Bloom in Boston. Like, if you took the job knowing—
HANNAH: Hmm.
BOBBY: —you had to trade Mookie Betts, I’m not going to give you a pass for trading Mookie Betts. You still wanted to take the job, you know? And so I have to judge you—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —the same as I would judge anybody who did that— make that move. And it’s a bad move, no matter what. Like, it’s a bad move to not sign any of the hitters who you know will hit for power. Like it just—
HANNAH: Well, and I— I— I haven’t, like, fully worked through this take, so I’m not— we’ll see— we’ll see where it winds up. But it’s kind of like, if you think you’re smarter than having to do the obvious thing, you have to actually be smarter than doing the obvious thing. And, like—
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: —I look at like— I was looking at, like, Teoscar Hernández’s, like, just like WRC+, so, like, just going right to, like, the root force of offensive production. And last year, when he was with the Mariners, was his worst offensive year in, like, five seasons. And so it’s kind of like, I don’t know where you guys went wrong on that. I don’t know if that’s just the ballpark. I don’t know if that’s the— the coaching or the hitting development or something, or what they were telling him to do. You know, kind of, like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: But if you— if you didn’t go for the obvious, “Here’s a really good hitter,” and you tried to get, like, a little bit off beat slightly. You know what I mean? Like, something like— and— and it didn’t work— then you were wrong. You did a— you did a bad job at the thing you thought you were doing a good job at. Like, you didn’t throw, like, $300 million in—[26:39] was a $300 million hitter available in two seasons [26:42] I don’t know. But, like, whatever Bryce Harper level player there was.
BOBBY: He’s—
HANNAH: You know what I mean? It’s like, if you didn’t do that, but you got Teoscar Hernandez for a season, and then he wasn’t good that year, then you— you’re not a good GM, because you didn’t— you weren’t— you weren’t wily in the way you thought you were.
BOBBY: Right. Well—
HANNAH: Right?
BOBBY: —respectfully to Teoscar Hernández, who is a great player.
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: He’s like, a fifth or sixth hitter in a great lineup. Like—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —he’s not— the reason that he looks so good on the Dodgers—
HANNAH: Right. If that’s the guy you’re getting, that has to be his best year. Like—
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly.
HANNAH: —if you’re gonna get him instead of someone more obvious, it’s gotta be because you know that it’s going to work. And if it doesn’t work, then I’m like, “Well, then, yeah. Now, you’ve— now, I’m not convinced that you know what you’re doing. You didn’t—” it’s— in some ways, it’s actually— it’s the like— I’m still— I’m still kind of working out how I feel about David Stearns as the Mets DM, but like, it’s the—
BOBBY: Oh, yeah. I’m open to this.
HANNAH: —in— yeah, it’s the inverse of David Stearns, the Mets GM, signing Severino and Manaea [27:37] which is like, “Oh, you didn’t do the obvious thing and get, like, Yamamoto, but the thing you did do did work, so I’m— you get credit as a GM for that.” You say— I mean, whatever, they spend so much money already, but like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: You didn’t do the—
BOBBY: And they also tried for Yamamoto. Like, I think they would have preferred to have him.
HANNAH: But I mean, like, that’s when it’s like— they wanted— they need to get more pitching. You didn’t get the— the best pitcher available, so you had to settle for something. And it— and it backfired. It would have been like, “Wow. Bad GM-ing. You should have gotten the best pitcher available.” But it didn’t backfire. So I think, “You know what? Good GM-ing.”
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: “You saw something that we didn’t know, and you made it work.” And you’re like, you— why lead your way into— and it’s the— Jerry Dipoto is also doing the opposite in Seattle, where it’s like, stop getting the, like, 40% good hitter, and then he’s 30% good when he’s with you. And I’m like, “Well, then, you— you didn’t make him even better than you— we thought he was gonna—”
BOBBY: Yes. Unfortunately, like, I think what the Mariners need is, like, they need to rate the— raise their risk profile. Like, they need to sign players—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —and they need to not be worried about it looking like shit five years from now, or four years from now. Like, it’s gonna look bad when the Phillies are paying $120 million for, you know, Schwarber, Harper, Castellanos, and Turner, and they’re not playing very well. They’re on all— they’re not all gonna line up, but you know what I mean.
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: Like, the same thing for the Mets. Like, same thing for any of these teams. Same thing for the Dodgers. Like, it’s gonna, quote-unquote, “look bad” if you’re judging yourself based on, like, wins above replacement divided by how much money you spent on this player. Like— but if you want—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —to be good now, like, you kind of have to pay the piper. You know what I mean? Like— and they’re not willing to do that for a lot of reasons. I think, dispositionally, I think that Jerry Dipoto is not willing to do that because he doesn’t want to be wrong, you know? Because, like, his whole thing—
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: —is, like, “I can be right with all these individual trades.” Well, it turns out that, like, it’s nice to be wrong sometimes and really right other times. You know, that makes for good baseball teams, not just being slightly right all of the time. You can’t just hit singles all day.
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: You got to hit home runs sometimes. And they don’t do that.
HANNAH: And I was just sad that they fired Scott Serv— I mean, that— this was the most— because I like Scott, the most that I’ve ever been like, “What did he do?” It’s just— we’re like—
BOBBY: Right, right.
HANNAH: Like, we’re— here we are, like, litigating whether it’s even Jerry Dipoto’s fault and I’m like— like, we should just blame the owner. And it’s like, “All right. Well, what did Scott do?” Like—
BOBBY: I know, I know. That’s classic like— just fire him so you don’t fire me move. Like—
HANNAH: Yes. And they’ve been together for so long. Scott and Jerry Dipoto like—
BOBBY: I know.
HANNAH: —they keep [30:05]
BOBBY: And allegedly found out about it from a breaking news push notification. I don’t know how— how true that is, because I’m not a Mariners reporter, but, you know, that’s not a good look.
HANNAH: That’s not a good look. They’ve been— I think— I think Scott Servais and Jerry Dipoto had worked together for, like, 15 years.
BOBBY: That’s insane. That’s insane. 15 years ago, I was in middle school. Like—
HANNAH: Just to be like, “Ah, it was his fault.” And that— that’s the end of that.
BOBBY: It’s unbelievable. All right. What’s your second down?
HANNAH: My second down— this is— this is, like, related to an up, so I’m— I’m gonna try to do just the— I’ve been watching a lot of baseball with my family. I had a baby.
BOBBY: Okay.
HANNAH: That’s context for a lot of this podcast.
BOBBY: Woo.
HANNAH: I had a baby. He’s eight weeks old. From day 10 of his life to, like, the— five weeks old, my husband’s at the Olympics in Paris, and that was hard. So I was staying with my family, which is a lot of my family. Three weeks with my parents, and then, because I was with my parents, and the baby was there, and babies are like a gravitational toll unlike anything we’ve ever seen. The rest of my siblings all came and stayed. Truly, it’s crazy. Do you have nieces, nephews, siblings?
BOBBY: I do. I do.
HANNAH: Like, do you— do you go to, like, the ends of the Earth to see these babies?
BOBBY: Actually— so when I first moved to LA, I was living with my cousin, and they were supposed to have a baby, like, two months later, three months later, and they had a baby, like, 10 days later. Like, super young.
HANNAH: Oh.
BOBBY: And he was a preemie, like very early. And so they were in the hospital with him all of the time. But then over the next few months, as he, like, got healthier and came home and whatnot, just, like, you know, aunts, uncles came, stayed, like— seems like we’re having a lot of backyard parties now because there’s a baby, you know? Like—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: —it was— so, yes, that’s what people do when [31:50]
HANNAH: People travel when [31:50] so I was like— I’m gonna stay with my parents, because I needed help taking care of this baby. And then my sister was like, “I want to come and bring my entire family.” And then my brother was like, “I’m also going to come and bring my wife.” And then my little brother still lives with my parents, so we don’t need to talk about that. So there’s a lot of people, and we watch a lot of Phillies, because I’m from Philly, and they’re all big Phillies fans. And so if I’m not— so one— one of my ups— we’ll get there later. But one of my ups was watching baseball with people who are, like, all a fan of the same team, which is—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: When you do this professionally, not actually a thing to do with that much.
BOBBY: Super rare. Yeah.
HANNAH: Like— you’re like, “Wow, you guys are all rooting for the same thing.” That happened. A down, however, is the— the explanation to all of their frustrations that they say cannot seem to understand is that the other team is trying, too. Just weeks of being like, “Why’d they make it out?” And I’m like, “Because it’s— that’s what the other team is trying to have happened.” It’s insane. My parents— my parents aren’t really just shilling, my dad, because I don’t [32:46] him. My dad’s capacity to be mad about every single one of the 27 outs that Phillies make every single night, as if this is, like, not the most predictable part of the sport, is, like, slightly maddening. Like, “Ah, I know he’s gonna make an out.” And I’m like, “Well, that’s not even a great prediction, honestly.” Right? That’s—
BOBBY: Right. That’s just a good bet, you know? Like, that’s just math.
HANNAH: [33:05] so, yeah, that— it’s— it’s the Phillies are good, too.
BOBBY: I know. They’re really good.
HANNAH: Like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: Really good. Really, really good. Although they were bad for a stretch while I was there, and I— over the course of being there, whether it’s because I became more of a fan, or I just, like, saw the light. My dad’s, like, constant frustration with them. By the end of my time, I was like, “You know what? They are playing poorly. You got a point. They cannot hit the slow stuff.”
BOBBY: Philadelphia sports fans capacity to catastrophize everything, I actually think is, like, the ceiling of theirs is higher than Mets fans, frankly. Like, they have less to stand on. They have less grass to stand on.
HANNAH: That’s— yes.
BOBBY: Like, World Series appearance two years ago, NL— NLCS last year. World Series win 2008. Like, you guys are fine.
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: Super Bowl win. One of the most legendary Super Bowl wins of all time, six years ago. Like, it’s okay. I know that the lows have been low, and I know that they fail in spectacular ways, much like the Mets do. But, like, if you’re a Philadelphia sports fan and you’re my age, like, are you in the top five of outcomes for— for cities like across America?
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: Yeah. Like Boston, Philly, like LA—
HANNAH: Well, and especially with—
BOBBY: —like— that’s it.
HANNAH: —lately with the Phillies, like, I’m kind of like— yes, watching people endlessly complain about, like, Bryce Harper, Trea Turner, Kyle Schwarber because— and it’s really— these are great players. These are fantastic players. They’re fun, they are good, and they were in the World Series two years ago. So it’s like— it’s— you’re right. It’s like this particular [34:39] is a very weird time to complain about [34:41] baseball. It’s not even like they’re good— you know, I don’t even know why. How are they putting it together? It’s like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: —don’t complain about Trea Turner. Trea Turner is a very good baseball player. You are lucky to have Trea Turner.
BOBBY: Yeah. Trea Turner, like, hitting .330, you know? Like, it’s not like—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: — Trea Turner having a bad Trea Turner year too.
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: I— when I watch baseball with people— or when just I [35:00] not sports or whatever when I’m, like, with my extended family, everybody always wants to talk about sports with me, because, like, they know that this is what I do and that this is where I work and whatnot. And it’s nice because it’s like people trying to meet you where you are and— and something that they can relate to, too. But it’s also like that— that, like, tete-a-tete, that, like, little dance that you do with people, and you’re like, “How deep do you really want to get in?” Like, do you want to talk about xwOBA?”
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: Or do you want to talk about, like, I’m mad that he didn’t run out to first? You know, like—
HANNAH: Right. Right.
BOBBY: —where are we at?
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: I need some terms. Like, some terms and conditions I need to sign on to, like—
HANNAH: Yes, exactly.
BOBBY: —when you create a new account somewhere. Like, I need that, but for sports talk with my family.
HANNAH: It did, actually, though, feel like— like I was encountering in the wild, the strain of thought that I know exists, but it’s, like, frustrating, which is like, why aren’t hitters good these days? And you’re like, “Oh, glad you asked. It’s because the pictures are really good.” I mean, like—
BOBBY: Yes, yes. The—
HANNAH: Like, on an individual level, my dad would be like, “Why do you swing at that?” Another— well, because the movement was incredible.
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
HANNAH: It was like 106 miles an hour, whatever. Like— like, I’m like— like— I’m kind of like, “Then this is a good— like a— in the milieu of baseball fan, and there is this huge divide between, like, people who are just, like, baseball’s bad now because the hitters are bad, and people who are, like, “Baseball’s bad not because the pitchers are really good.”
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: And I agree. That does make it bad. That is a frustrating version of the sport to watch. But it’s like not because they all just decided to suck all of a sudden? Like—
BOBBY: I completely agree, or that they, like, suddenly over the last 12 years, and because they were spoiled when they were raised, like, because they got too accepting of being bad, which is like an argument—
HANNAH: Right, exact— yes.
BOBBY: —that is just sort of floating out there, that, like, pitchers are just— they don’t have any dignity— or rather, hitters don’t have any dignity anymore—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —and so the pitchers just walk all over them. This is another reason the Ump Cam is a total tragedy. Like, if the Ump Cam was actually good and could show you how good the pitch was—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: —then people could actually use that as a data point. But instead, it’s just like a shaky camera that doesn’t show you the pitch—
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: —and they just—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —are obsessed with it on Fox. That’s a great one.
HANNAH: But yes, that is— that is the thing that’s now— which is like— right, trying to engage with people who are kind of like, “Why are the hitters bad?” And you’re like, “That— why would that be the case? Why would it—” like human history is an argument against that being the case. Trust me. We did not decide that this is like a multi-billion dollar industry and also, like, technology and training, and everyone’s gotten bigger and stronger and more talented, but hitters, they just got worse.
BOBBY: And they were fine with it, you know? And they didn’t—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —never did anything about it. Agreed.
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: Yeah. The— the— like, some of the most competitive people on planet Earth are just totally okay with it. Yeah, sure. Okay. My next down is— this is something that I’ve been really on since the off season. And it— I— I literally— I don’t want to directly blame the media—
HANNAH: Okay.
BOBBY: —but this is partially a media framing problem, because the whole, like, the Dodgers are a billion dollar baseball team argument that I’ve—
HANNAH: Oh.
BOBBY: —been seeing going on all season has been driving me so crazy. And other fan bases latch onto it, because they’re like, “Oh, you know, we’re this plucky little upstart team and, oh, we took two off the Dodgers, the billion dollar baseball team.” And it’s because, like, in that span of a week, they signed Yamamoto, Ohtani and, I guess—
HANNAH: Glasnow.
BOBBY: And Glasnow and then Freeman the previous off season.
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: So, like, the contracts that they had signed over the last off season was, like, 1.2 billion or something like that, in total value. I’m like, “You guys are talking about 2039 as if that’s a real year. Like, that’s—”
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: “I don’t care about that year. That’s not real.” Like, the billion—
HANNAH: I was having this conversation with someone literally yesterday. It was like, “Talk in AAV. Why do we not all talk in AAV all the time?”
BOBBY: Exactly. It’s driving me crazy. They’re not even the—they don’t even have the biggest payroll in the league. Like, what are we talking about here?
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: And also, it’s really rich coming from Padres fans who have just, like, totally shirked payroll. They’re just like, “Fuck it. You know, we’re just gonna keep signing people to the point where, like, there’s anonymous sources— bad natured anonymous sources around the league.” Being like, “I don’t know how they can afford it.” It’s like, you guys are spending a lot of money on players, too. Like, everybody’s spending a lot of money on players, and it’s a good thing. Can we just move on?
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: Like, can we just stop with the—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —whole, like, billion dollar team? And then the other element of is— of it is that, like, average sports fan who complains about the concept of a billion dollar being too much, I’m like, “Just— can you just apply this thought process to literally anything else in life?” Like, you’re—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: In Elon Musk’s replies, being like, “Thank you, sir.” You know? Like, what are we doing? It’s driving me, in particular, so crazy, because I— I like the Dodgers—
HANNAH: The— the money over time element is such a weird like— I’m like— I don’t— I express my rent in how much it is per month. Not in like—
BOBBY: Right.
HANNAH: —how much I might eventually spend.
BOBBY: Well, I think because that would be really crushing, so crushing.
HANNAH: That would be so depressing. It might also be a billion dollars, eventually.
BOBBY: Yeah. Can you imagine if, like— you were like, “Yeah, I think I’ll probably live in New York for five years, so, like, my rent is—” and then you said, like, the total amount that you think—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —you will pay over the next five years. That would be mind-blowing.
HANNAH: People would be like, “Whoa.” And you’re like, “Right, but that’s not how I earn money.” So it’s also not how I spent— like it’s such a— yes.
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: I agree. Sorry for that media framing.
BOBBY: Yeah. I mean, I blame you and all the other mainstream media members.
HANNAH: That’s fair.
BOBBY: You did it, yeah. In terms of culpability, it’s Jeff Passan, Ken Rosenthal, and then you.
HANNAH: It’s not [40:14] though because I don’t have a job. That’s my last down. I don’t have a job in baseball. I mean, I do— I have, like, various little gigs. I thought— I thought about trying to find something, like, more relatable to your listeners. But my— my least favorite thing about this baseball season is that I don’t have a full-time job, and the postseason is approaching, and I would be very sad if I did not get to cover the postseason, because I love covering the postseason. Like, truly, I love the postseason so much. And also, the post season is very difficult, but I think—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
HANNAH: —relative to having a newborn baby, it would be less difficult. Someone should hire me, because I thought I’d be better at it than ever, because my sense of lack of, like— like, I— I can work on very little sleep now. That’s a benefit [40:56]
BOBBY: Like, I’m built different now.
HANNAH: I’m built different now. Yes, truly though, like, I love the World Series. I mean, everyone who, like, loves baseball, loves the World Series, but like I— it’s just so much fun. I really enjoy covering the postseason. It’s my favorite thing I ever get to do. And I hope I get to do it this year.
BOBBY: Will you— if there’s playoff baseball in New York— well, there will be at the Yankees. Well, even if you’re not, like, assigned to a specific thing, will you still try to get credentialed and go, and just work on stuff?
HANNAH: I— you know, I will— it’s— so, again, we’re talking about this [41:29] on the pod. Priorities are tough when you have a baby, because you’re like, “I gotta actually get some work out [41:35] just can’t do like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: You know what will be fun? Is to watch a great baseball game.
BOBBY: Eight hours at the ballpark. Yeah, exactly.
HANNAH: So— although daycare— we do have daycare starting in October, which we did on purpose, but not at night. So we’ll figure—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
HANNAH: —something out in that— that respect. I have stuff that I’m working on, which we’ll get to in the ups, Three Ups. So I would hopefully be at some games. I actually was thinking about it like— easier— easier for me to go to postseason games in Philly, because my parents are there and they can watch the baby.
BOBBY: Good point.
HANNAH: And because, just in general, Yankee Stadium is one of my least favorite places to cover postseason games, because I live so much further from Yankee Stadium than I would ever stay from a ballpark, if I was in town to cover a baseball.
BOBBY: Yeah. Yeah.
HANNAH: Like, whenever I’ve covered postseason games at Yankee Stadium, I’m like, “Oh, my God, it’s like two hours of commuting.” I never do that in any other city, because you can’t—
BOBBY: No.
HANNAH: You, like, can’t get an hour from the ballpark in any other city and still be in the city.
BOBBY: It takes me 90 minutes to get to Citi Field from where I live.
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: People are like, “Oh, you’re new. Are you going to games all the time?” And I’m like, “No.”
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: No. I go—
HANNAH: So—
BOBBY: —but, like, I’m not just going on a whim. You know?
HANNAH: Yes. I always, like, kind of— whenever I have covered the postseasons, I’ve always hoped that the Yankees would get eliminated or— I’m like, “I can’t be coming home from, like, a World Series game where it’s going to take me, like, an hour on the train,” if all the trains are running normally. But who knows—
BOBBY: Sure.
HANNAH: —that—that— you know what I mean?
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: Like, maybe it’s a weekend and it’s gonna take me two hours on the train. I’m like—
BOBBY: Oh, man. This just became, like, Brooklyn resident transit hour, which half of the Patreon listeners will be like, “Oh, my God, it’s so true.” And the other half will be like, “Here they go again.”
HANNAH: So true. Yeah. So that’s my down. I would like to cover baseball again, real time.
BOBBY: My third down is bleak, but kind of related to that. Did you see this story about ESPN will be using generative artificial intelligence to write game recaps—
HANNAH: Oh, no. I didn’t—
BOBBY: —for— for the Premier Lacrosse League and the National Women’s Soccer League. They have decided that they will use basically just generative AI and write, like, incremental recap stories like as the game goes, and that will be how they will cover those leagues. Now, am I going to read game recaps for the National Women’s Soccer League? No. Probably not.
HANNAH: No.
BOBBY: Am I going to read premier Lacrosse League recaps like in the ESPN app? Me, personally, no. But when I— whenever I see something like this, and particularly, like, on the back of what you just said about, like, you not having a full-time job to cover the sport, like, I just know that they’re sinking a ton of money into this. I know that all these places are sinking a ton of money into this, and the payoff will always be to the executives who are involved in this, and will never be to the people who actually, like, lost out on work because of this, number one. But number two, just, like, conceptually speaking, this is the most, like, Russian doll, we’re removing. like, hat on a hat. Like, this is a— areal sport that, like, has value because real people play it, and real people are fans of it. And so why would you remove the real— like, if you think it’s worthwhile, shouldn’t there be a real person who is creating the coverage and, like—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: —the— the genesis point of then the fans get to talk about that and talk about the coverage, and share the article and see what happened. Like, that is the job of a real person in a functioning society. You know what I mean? Like, the only reason this—
HANNAH: It’s—
BOBBY: —has value is because of the community, and now we’re, like, trying to minimize the community and turn it into something that is just, like, done by computer for efficiency sake. It just— it doesn’t make sense.
HANNAH: It’s very strange [45:02] ESPN that’s doing this?
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: Like, dude, you’re fucking ESPN. Like, if you don’t want to cover sports, why do you exist? Like, it’s such a weird— it’s like you’re automating all this stuff. Like, you’re automating the— the main thing, which is the—
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: —like, the sports coverage. And you’re like— it’s not like you’re automating some ancillary thing to make the main thing. Like, you could spend more time and energy on the main thing. It’s like you’re automating the main thing. It’s like, why do it at all then? Got— like, it’s certainly— right. Like, it’s kind of like ESPN exists because someone at some point decided like, “It’d be cool to cover sports and, like, have, like, an interesting, engaging human media element to go with the interesting, engaging on-field element.”
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: And then [45:50] where it’s like automate that, because you’re like, “Well, why don’t— why don’t you just not do it at all then?” In which case, why do any— like, it’s such— like, it truly—
BOBBY: Exactly. Exactly.
HANNAH: —gets in that, like, existential level of being like, if you’re trying to make it as, like, efficient and in personal and inhuman as possible, like, why are you even doing it? Like, automating, like, how you file expense reports? Great.
BOBBY: Exactly.
HANNAH: Because you’re not an expense reports company. You’re a sports media company. But, like, automating sports media is such a weird thing for a sports media company to do, because it’s like you’re automating yourself sort of, like, out of existence, and just to, like— there’s no— there’s no inherent value in game stories about LaCrosse so you don’t need to, like, get there as efficiently as possible.
BOBBY: No. Like, the—
HANNAH: Like, they’re only good if people like them.
BOBBY: The point is that, like, my brain gets to connect to someone else’s brain—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —who saw it with their eyes, and then their eyes—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —told their brain what they saw, and then their brain processed it and gave it to me. This is, like, how I feel about, like, movies are gonna be— you know, directors are gonna be replaced by AI. It’s like, “Okay. Then I just won’t watch movies.” You know, like—
HANNAH: Right, exactly. I’m like—
BOBBY: —I’m not coming to movies because of the pixels.
HANNAH: —I don’t want to— I’m not trying to, like, get to the end of the movie, yeah. I’m trying to, like, enjoy the movie. Not reading a game story just to, like, import those facts into my brain. I want to, like, read the story. I want just like— it’s such a weird— yes. Everything— it’s such a— we could talk about this for [47:16]
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: We should get to the good stuff at some point. But, like, also [47:17] because I have something at two, so we should get to the good stuff, too.
BOBBY: Oh, we’ll be done well before that. Don’t worry.
HANNAH: Okay, good.
BOBBY: I do, too.
HANNAH: We’ll just take, like, way longer and all the bad stuff. But, like—
BOBBY: That’s Tipping Pitches. Woo.
HANNAH: Right. It’s like all industry now feels like, why are you training to make efficient, the jobs that people want to do? That’s—
BOBBY: Exactly. Like, we—
HANNAH: Why are you trying to get rid of those?
BOBBY: We’ve always been about, like, output over process, right? Like, as a country and culture, and species and stuff. But, like, we still used to sometimes appreciate the process and certain things, and art and sports were one of them, right?
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: Like, we— the pro— sports is process. You watch the game. You don’t just, like, sim to the end. That’s not fun.
HANNAH: Right. Exactly.
BOBBY: You know? This is simming to the end. Like, we don’t— we don’t need it.
HANNAH: And it— it’s— when— when— now, we’re, like, going too many— like, brain panels deep, but it’s like when shitty people on Twitter who hate journalists, for some reason, like getting the replies, that— it’s like— they’re— and like— are like, “Congrats on all of you losing your job. We love it.” Like, the— the, like, baked in assumption is that, like, having a job is like a— like a antagonistic, competitive thing, where you don’t want people to like their life, which is such a weird way to like— like, why is that— like, why— even if it’s possible to automate out these jobs, like, why do you hate the people, that— you being the person who’s making that decision, at ESPN? Why are you, executive, who works in sports media, like, making it your life’s mission to, like, have fewer— not even your life’s mission, not even your life mission. Even if you’re doing it begrudgingly or whatever.
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: Like— but it’s just kind of like— I don’t understand why we— it’s like— you can see that it would be possible to cut those jobs and then just not cut those jobs, because, like, what’s life about if not, like, fulfilling your pa— even, like, it’s such, like, a weird— like, almost— like, why are we trying to have as few good jobs as possible—
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: —just so we could, like, hate the people who have those jobs more or something? It’s like a weird like—
BOBBY: Completely agree.
HANNAH: Why not— why don’t we all— like, I want everyone— this is like— now, I’m going to get, like, too sentimental maybe because I’m a new parent. But, like, truly, I think one of the things that has changed the most about me as a person, as I’ve, like, gotten older, is that impulse has been completely drained out of me. That impulse that is, like, not wanting other people to have good jobs that they love and are, like, good fits for. I’m, like, now in my mid-30s, there’s nothing I love more than finding out that someone has, like, a good, well-paying job that they enjoy and treats them well, and that they are—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: —like, have the right aptitude for. Like, fantastic. Love that for you. Like, why would I not want— why would I, as a human, not want any other human, ones I do know and don’t know to feel that way? And I don’t understand why, like, anything in our society and industry especially has, like, taken us in that direction. Like, who is pushing us in the direction where fewer people get to have fulfilling, well-paying, sustainable jobs?
BOBBY: I mean, like the people who are hired—
HANNAH: —who’s [50:14]
BOBBY: They’re hired, like, exclusively to try to help a stock price, so that, like, the executives—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —can then sell the stock. You know what I mean? Like— and I’m just wondering, like, in media— but in all things, really, I’m wondering when someone’s gonna, like, take a stand, like—
HANNAH: Right. That’s what I mean.
BOBBY: —for anything?
HANNAH: It just sort of be like— just sort of be like the humane way to go through the world as like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: Is to be, like, everyone should have a good job that allows them to have rent and a family and food.
BOBBY: Yeah. Just—
HANNAH: That’s— like, that’s— just like— that’s what I would want as a boss, is for that to be the case.
BOBBY: It would be nice if someone was like, “This is an option. No.”
HANNAH: Right, right.
BOBBY: You know, “This is an option, and it’s pre-decided because it is the best for the finances.” You know? Or the best, quote-unquote—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —efficiency. Like, I don’t know. Extremely well said. I completely relate to what you were saying. And perhaps in the interest of not pulling us all the way down the rabbit hole and losing the thread of the podcast.
HANNAH: Well, that’s good [51:05] on the good.
BOBBY: Let’s pivot to the goods, yeah. So why don’t you kick us off there, too?
HANNAH: Okay. Well, I’ll— I’ll— I’ll circle back to one that I talked about first, which is watching a lot of Phillies baseball with my family.
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: But specifically I want to talk about— did you see the last night— the Last Week Tonight segment about John Kruk?
BOBBY: No, I did not.
HANNAH: Oh— oh, my God. I’m like— I don’t know— this is like— the— the fact that this happened when I was around with my family, people who love the Phillies and I’ll watch Last Week Tonight with— with John Oliver is insane. Like early August— Last Week Tonight— I— this is— like, it feels surreal to me that they even noticed the Phillies for some reason, but they did. They’re like— and now something else was a montage just of John Kruk saying very random things as John Kruk want to do.
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: And it was beautiful. I don’t know your podcasting capabilities. Can we insert a clip? I don’t know if you can.
BOBBY: Oh, of course. Yes, we can.
HANNAH: Okay, great.
JOHN OLIVER: And Now This.
SPEAKER 4: And now, the delightfully bizarre musings of Phillies color commentator John Kruk.
JOHN KRUK: You know, I was thinking about this today now that we have some time.
TOM: Yeah.
JOHN KRUK: Like— like, why aren’t we born with hair on our chest as men?
TOM: I don’t know that.
JOHN KRUK: Why does it wait to, like, you’re, you know, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, whatever?
TOM: Yeah.
JOHN KRUK: And then it starts growing. Like, where are those— were those follicles dormant? There’s not a lot of shows I watch as a kid, we banned them from one.
TOM: I’m not even gonna ask which one it is.
JOHN KRUK: Oh, I can tell you.
TOM: all right.
JOHN KRUK: Caillou.
TOM: Oh, okay.
JOHN KRUK: All that kid did was complain. We used to do stuff with ESPN down at Disney, like Animal Kingdom. We put— they put us up. So the first day out, open up the shade. There’s a dang giraffe looking in my window.
TOM: Really?
JOHN KRUK: I’m like, “What the hell is this?
TOM: Did you feed it anything?
JOHN KRUK: I did not. I was scared of it. So Kenny Pierce decide, “Hey, I’d like to get my girlfriend to come up here.” So we go down there and pick her up. Her dad comes out with a dang shotgun, trying to shoot at us.
TOM: Of course, he does.
JOHN KRUK: Did I ever tell you about the— playing the prison team and— when I was playing a winter ball? So I asked the catcher, I said— I said, “What did he do? He goes, oh, he found his girlfriend cheating. He burned up her car with her and her boyfriend in it. I’m like, “Oh, my gosh.”
TOM: Oh, my gosh.
JOHN KRUK: Very uncomfortable at that.
HANNAH: Fantastic. Please do that. And a special shout out goes to the Phillies play-by-play broadcaster Tom McCarthy reacting to John Kruk. Like John Kruk would say something like, “[53:42] why aren’t people born with chest hair?” And then Tom McCarthy will be like, “I don’t know the answer to that.” And it’s just fantastic. John Kruk is legitimately quite funny.
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: And, like, not actually bubbling. Like, he’s—
BOBBY: No.
HANNAH: —really, really quick. And, like, makes jokes quickly. And, like— yeah. The— it’s really good.
BOBBY: He’s like a perfect example of one of the beautiful things about baseball. It’s like— that— his sense of humor doesn’t work anywhere else. Like, it doesn’t work in hockey.
HANNAH: [54:15]
BOBBY: It doesn’t work in— not that he couldn’t be, like, a— a funny guy if he had been a hockey player. Like, I’m sure it’d be the same. But in terms of the actual, like, delivery of the jokes, the cadence—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —the pace, the sport lends itself to that. And when people are like, “Baseball’s boring.” I’m like, “No, baseball’s just not, like, constant— constant crush of dopamine and adrenaline like other sports are.”
HANNAH: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Which is fine. Those are the— things are good, too, but, like, it’s— it’s— it’s more relaxed. It’s like podcasting versus—
HANNAH: Exactly.
BOBBY: You know?
HANNAH: It’s like a Patreon episode versus a real episode.
BOBBY: Right. Exactly.
HANNAH: More meandering. No. So that’s been— watching baseball with other fans and then specifically taking in— and this is— this is like— it’s like a microcosm of that larger thing, which is like watching the entire game of one team, even when the game’s like, quote-unquote, “over.”
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
HANNAH: Such that you have time for John Kruk to, like, muse on, why don’t— why aren’t people born with chest hair? Like, that— you— you lose that when you’re so focused on taking in the whole sport, because you’re professionally obligated that you’re like, “What, seven to two?” Switching over to a closer game.
BOBBY: Right, exactly.
HANNAH: You don’t get to hear those musings.
BOBBY: Yes. Exactly. Exactly. It sometimes nice to, like, actually put one team under the microscope and be like, what it’s like—
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: —to be a fan of this team, you know?
HANNAH: Exactly.
BOBBY: My first up is Ohtani is dog throwing out the first pitch.
HANNAH: Nice.
BOBBY: Which was, like, one of those things that kind of really, like, broke containment into the rest of culture. They were like, “Oh, a dog.”
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: “Really exciting.” I was— like, logistically speaking, how— how is this dog so well-trained? How— I know there’s a lot of theories out there about, like, the dog is actually a robot, or like the dog is a paid actor, or whatever. It’s like not actually his dog. I want to squash those theories. I think it’s actually his dog. I just don’t understand, like as someone who has a dog that is reactive and not very good. Like, it’s insane that in the stadium of 45,000 people, this dog can just run out there, no leash, grab a ball, run to Ohtani. Like, not get distracted by anything. It’s unbelievable. To me— I know I said this on Twitter, but like to me, this is as impressive as the moon landing. It’s like—
HANNAH: Thank you for saying that this person has a dog, because I have never had dogs, only been cats. And me watching that, I was just like, “Well, cats could never. I assume dogs are different.” And then just moved on.
BOBBY: No. I’m like, “This is unbelievable.” Like, we should be— we should putting this in his MVP case. Like, this is like— this is part of the whole package to me. It was amazing. And just great work all around. We should have more shit like that. You know? Let the dogs have the first pitch.
HANNAH: I do think it’s kind of funny. I got— I think it’s kind— I— there’s, like, a part of me that’s, like, cynical about the fact— not that the dog is fake, but that Shohei Ohtani, himself, was sort of like, “I don’t want anyone to know anything about me ever. I want to be like an enigma.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: And then people, like, really latch onto the dog and he was like, “Oh, for sure. You guys [57:09] about the dog. Like, if that’s all you want to know, like, by all means. Eat up this shit.” Like— like, there’s something sort of cynical about the way in which he was, like, “You just needed one personality trait from me, and it could be the most basic, most people feel this way type thing.”
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: “By all means. Knock yourself out. Talk about the dog.”
BOBBY: Right. “Like, you guys— this is gonna satiate you guys, like there’s a dog.”
HANNAH: Exactly.
BOBBY: “And also, like, I have a random Japanese wife that I didn’t tell you about.”
HANNAH: Right. But, like, it’s like—
BOBBY: “Like, who’s a professional basketball player.
HANNAH: Think about— think about the fact that we all learned in quick succession about Shohei Ohtani. It was like, one, he made 700 million over time, made 700 million. Two, he has a wife. Three, he has a dog. Four, he was being swindled by his best friend out of, like, millions of dollars. And then we were all like, “The dog. Tell us more about that.”
BOBBY: I know.
HANNAH: And Shohei Ohtani has been, like, feed them endless information about the dog. “This is working for me.”
BOBBY: [57:59]
HANNAH: Like, it’s just absolutely hilarious that he’s like, “You don’t want— need to know about my personal life. You don’t need to know about my finances. You don’t need to know about the, like, betrayal I feel from the person closest to me in this country. You just wanted to know more— you just want to see pictures of the dog? I can do that all day.”
BOBBY: Extremely relatable, frankly. Extremely relatable. Just talk to me about my dog and nothing else. Great.
HANNAH: Yes. All right.
BOBBY: What’s your second up?
HANNAH: My second up, this is me trying to get your listeners to do my homework for me. Again, don’t have— we’re— we’re tying it all together. I do have a baby, I don’t have a job, I’m trying to freelance. So those are the facts that we’ve established thus far in this podcast. I work—
BOBBY: It’s like an opening statement in court.
HANNAH: [58:42]
BOBBY: “[58:42] ahead of this, honor.” Like—
HANNAH: Job, no. Baby, yes. Freelancing takes up a lot of time, not worth it for the money they pay you, but you have to do it anyway. So I’m working on a story about personalized sliding gear. This is something I like. You know the sliding mitts? Everybody enjoys them because we call them oven mitts.
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: And we’ve been like— people have been making jokes like, “How long could the oven mitts possibly get before MLB litigate this for years?” And I started to notice, the sliding mitts are very fun. And there’s seeming— seemingly no rules about what the sliding mitts can and can’t be. Maybe the [59:15], but Bryce Harper has a legitimately bow for Philly Phanatic theme—
BOBBY: Yep.
HANNAH: —sliding mitt.
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: And I can’t believe that in this— we’re— any sport what— even— like, the thing that happens in sports is uniforms. You’ll have to dress the same. They all have to dress the same, and then we’re letting Bryce Harper have fake green fluff on his hands. Like it’s such a wild departure from— it took, like, years— I don’t know the entire history of this, to get them to be allowed to have, like, shoes of a different color.
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: You can put anything on these sliding mitts seemingly. It’s bonkers.
BOBBY: I mean, as recently— it’s like, 2019 Mike Clevinger, like, got fined for wearing— I mean, Mike Clevinger can go to hell, as far as I’m concerned. But, like, he— he got fined for wearing cleats that had three colors on them.
HANNAH: Right. And now, they’re like, “You can do anything you want to your sliding mitts.” I’m very interested in some— I’m hoping to write about. Specifically, this, like— it seems like such a modern confluence of trends, and businesses, and whatever that, like, padding and personal safety gear is—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
HANNAH: —like experiencing this incredible renaissance of fashion. It’s such a weird like— guys are, like, padded out the wazoo, but then also they’re using that real estate to, like, break of the— from the uniform. So I’m inviting your listeners to tell me about players they’ve noticed having interesting pads, batting gloves, sliding mitts, whatever it is, because I want to talk to them about their weird—
BOBBY: Oh, great idea.
HANNAH: —sliding mitts.
BOBBY: I like that. You’re basically just like— you’re writing, like, a trend story— trend piece for the— for team— the team magazine, but about baseball players.
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: All right. That’s amazing. I’m sure our listeners will be able to kind of help.
HANNAH: Me, too.
BOBBY: And I’ll pass that information along.
HANNAH: That is one of those things where it’s like if you— like, this gets back to, like, watching one team. Like, I’m like, anyone who watches any team, I’m sure you know about it. Like, does a guy have a weird color sliding mitt? Tell me. I haven’t watched your team in a while, if they’re not the Phillies or the Mets.
BOBBY: Yeah, the Mets have a couple. I mean, Nimmo has, like, his own batting— or, like, he has a batting glove company that he is invested in, and they— I forget what it’s called, but it has, like, the big lightning strike, whatever.
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: So, like, those are very noticeable. But everybody else, I feel like they’re sliding stuff is pretty normal.
HANNAH: Harrison Bader, he’s got pink and purple.
BOBBY: Oh, true. True. Harrison Bader— you could write a whole story, like, profiling Harrison Bader and how he dresses, you know? Like—
HANNAH: I— I spoke to him yesterday about his pink and purple sliding mitts. And while we were speaking, he was wearing—
BOBBY: And his crop tees.
HANNAH: He was wearing a pink crop tee, and the Mets logo was, like, Terry cloth material. Like, it was like an— like a— it was like a T-shirt and then, like, embroidered on it, or whatever that would be called. Like, embossed on. It was like a—
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: —Terry cloth Mets logo, and I really wanted to find out more, but I was talking about [1:01:55] instead.
BOBBY: Man. He’s kind of inspirational, honestly. Okay. My second up, speaking of the Mets—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: —it was inspired by the Mets picture day, but really, I just love the fact that they do like picture day for professional baseball teams, and they do it in, like, September. You know? It’s like—
HANNAH: It’s because they’re waiting for the trade deadline.
BOBBY: Exactly. Well, they’re waiting for it to be the full team, number one.
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: But number two, what ends up happening is that, like, the team actually, like, has identified its vibe by them. So, like, the—
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: —picture is actually more accurate to how the season went than it would be if it was like, “Hope springs anew, March 29th. We all have a chance. We’re all 0-0.”
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: “We all have a chance to make the playoffs.” Like, no. This is an accurate representation of the New York Mets 2024 season. We’re, like, getting photos with the OMG sign in it. We’re getting photos where, like, Luis Severino has Sean Manaea in a headlock. Like, we’re getting photos of the Chicago White Sox, where literally nobody looks like they’ve ever been happy in their life. Like, this is accurate. This is how it should be. I just think it’s so funny because, like, you think back on playing Little League and having picture day, and it’s like, these are hilarious photos that will make magnets on your parents’ refrigerators for decades to come, you know? And— but— and decades later, the guys who still get to play baseball still get to have that day. I just think it’s nice.
HANNAH: That’s true.
BOBBY: I think it’s sweet. You don’t get picture day at your professional job anymore.
HANNAH: That’s true.
BOBBY: I feel like we should all have picture day at our professional jobs.
HANNAH: We should all have picture day. When I worked at Deadspin, we did have a picture day, actually.
BOBBY: That’s nice. Well—
HANNAH: They—
BOBBY: —the things they take from us.
HANNAH: I know. And— and—
BOBBY: Deadspin as a concept, and also picture day.
HANNAH: Picture day was— and it’s true. People really liked it. People really got excited for picture day. That would be in the like— in— we— we would love for there to be more jobs that, like, pay a living, sustainable wage, but also, picture day would be a nice thing that, like— like corporate bosses could do for us.
BOBBY: Right. Exactly.
HANNAH: All right. So now, it’s time for my last— my last up?
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: All right. Again, baby, that happened. My— I’ve really enjoyed talking to baseball players about having a baby, and their baby.
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: I— like, truly, I went to spring training for a freelance story, so marketing all the way back to March. And at the time, I was like, cuspy, noticeable pregnant. And so every player who I, like, had any kind of pre-existing relationship would be like, “Hi. What’s up with you?” And I’d be like, [1:04:20] And then they would, like, love being let in on this secret and tell me just the most wildly intimate shit about their wives that I’m not going to repeat here. Baseball players will really find out you’re having a baby and be like, “Do you want to hear about how birth was for my wife? She would love you telling that story.” But also it’s like they love it. They— because— truly like— this is a— this is a— a sweet thing that I will say about baseball players, because, like, so often in the media, I feel like we’re just, like, talking about how they suck as people, not as baseball players. They’re great as baseball players.
BOBBY: Except the hitters.
HANNAH: But they love— exactly. Except the hitters., right? They aren’t trying at all. But they love being dead, and they, like— and they— they are not like ironic people by and large. I mean, they’re different. It’s like a large group of people, but for the most part—
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: —they’re not like tinged with sarcasm and irony.
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: So they just are like—
BOBBY: Like all of us.
HANNAH: —”I love being a dad.” And you’re—
BOBBY: Right.
HANNAH: —”Oh, okay.” And then they’re so happy. A special shout out to Francisco Lindor, who is in the— in the same vein that some people are like wife guys. He’s like a daughter guy.
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
HANNAH: You know what I mean? And he— and I know that— like, you know this from afar, because that’s like his whole persona. But then I know this up close, because I was so impressed. He, like, asked me about my pregnancy when I was pregnant and told him the first trimester was rough like [1:05:43] and this man pulled off the top of his head, the prescription name of the medicine they give you if your nausea is too bad.
BOBBY: Oh, man.
HANNAH: And I was like, “Wow.” I— like that fact ratcheted up my respect for Francisco Lindor right there. I was like, “Damn. You actually really paid attention. Presumably, your wife’s pregnant. She had a tough first trimester perhaps. She had difficult morning sickness. She had to take some medicine. And you were like—” well, I don’t— I don’t even remember it now. I have an eight week old. I don’t— that’s why I’m not using it, because I can’t remember what his name was.
BOBBY: Right, exactly.
HANNAH: And his kid was, like, two at the time. So—
BOBBY: That’s great. I love— I love hearing Francisco Lindor stories. Like, I feel like one Patreon episode per year could just be us trying to talk to everybody—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: —who has a Francisco Lindor story, because it just seems like he just— is like that all the time. Like all the time.
HANNAH: I was at— yesterday, first time back at the ballpark since I had the baby, and to be fair, we didn’t have a long conversation, but like— and so he saw me on the field, and he was like, “You had the baby.” Because, again, you could tell.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
HANNAH: And I was like, “Wow, you process that—” like that— truly, that is my Francisco Lindor story of the day for you.
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: It’s just that— like, that man saw me. Remembered that three months ago, I haven’t been in a ballpark in a long time [1:07:00]
BOBBY: That’s what I’m saying, imagine how many people he sees every day, you know? Like, that— he just— just, like, remembered two or three things about all of those people, which is incredible.
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: This is why—
HANNAH: It’s—
BOBBY: —this is why he’s a professional baseball player.
HANNAH: That’s why he should be MVP.
BOBBY: That’s exactly right. That trumps the dog factor with Ohtani. It’s a wash on the field, but Francisco Lindor—
HANNAH: But—
BOBBY: —being nice to you about the baby trumps Shohei Ohtani just having a dog.
HANNAH: But, yeah, just like across the board, have genuinely really enjoyed, like, getting to talk to guys about their kids, seeing pictures of their kids. Baseball players, they will— they will, some of them, pull out their phones, show you pictures of their kids, and then all of a sudden, you’re like, “Wow, it’s kind of crazy how I never see your phone because you don’t carry it around when you’re doing the job that we mostly watch [1:07:43]
BOBBY: Except for that want one guy who likes— whose phone fell out of his— who was that?
HANNAH: It was— it was like his pocket, yes.
BOBBY: I for— I think it was like— I don’t know. I don’t want to slander anyone. Not that anyone who’s listening on the Patreon really cares, but whatever. It’s also funny to remember, like, so many of these baseball players are all at, like, this exact period in their lives, which is, like—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: —such a transitory period in people’s lives. Like—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: —late 20s, early 30s, like— and they are people outside of the context of, like, being in their baseball prime. Like, they are also, like—
HANNAH: I absolutely— I’ve had so much fun asking players, like, what’s your best baby advice? Because it’s like— right. It’s— it’s so— I mean, like, we joke about, like, being, quote-unquote, “relatable,” but it’s, like, genuinely so relatable. Like—
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: Like, Aaron Nola was like, buy back up pump parts if you’re pumping.
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: And I was like, “Oh. Okay, yeah. That’s like a— like, a real fact.” That’s not like— you’re like—
BOBBY: Yeah. Because when it— when it breaks, like, yeah, you’re not— that’s not something just gonna come over night.
HANNAH: No, because [1:08:45] you have to wash it, because [1:08:46]
BOBBY: Oh.
HANNAH: He was like— he was saying— again, credit to him, good partner. He was like, “I felt like— my wife, I can’t help her with, like, the breastfeeding and the pumping.” And he’s like, “So I was trying to wash parts.” And he’s like, “And you’re washing the parts constantly. It’s like, it took me weeks to figure out to buy backups.” And I was like, “What a relatable story from Aaron Nola.”
BOBBY: Super relatable. Amazing.
HANNAH: Like, up in the night washing, like, bottles and, like—
BOBBY: It’s funny because, like, honestly, to put up on it, it just makes me think about how the fact that, like, baby doesn’t give a fuck that you throw 95 with movement.
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, the baby does not care. You know what I mean? Like, that’s pretty funny.
HANNAH: So yeah.
BOBBY: Okay. Well, my third and final up is, I guess, probably something that you’ve talked about this exact thing with. My third and final up is Nick Castellanos and his propensity to torture the Atlanta Braves. Which is just so great for me as a Mets fan who grew up on— in outside Philadelphia. Like, there was so little in my life that I could latch on to that would connect me and the other Phillies fans that were— all my friends growing up. And one of those things was a hatred of, particularly, Chipper Jones, honestly, but just really the Atlanta Braves.
HANNAH: Larry—
BOBBY: And then on— on the football side—
HANNAH: To— to Mets fans, Larry to Mets fans.
BOBBY: Yes. And on the football side, like hating the Dallas Cowboys. Like, there’s so few things that just bond us together. And it seems like every couple months, there’s like a really important Phillies-Braves series and I’m just like, “Finally, I could get behind these guys. The Phillies are a fun team. I can relate to all of my friends who are from the Philadelphia area.” Like— and Castellanos, in particular, it just seems like he just really gets up for that series. He’s such an interesting guy. He’s such an interesting player. Really just high highs, low lows. But like when he locks in, it really is fun to watch, because he is just—
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: —such a— like a funny but competitive and introspective and, like, good in ways that are not super popular to be good at anymore. Like hitting, you know, gap to gap. Like, he’s not very good on defense, but when he’s going right, he’s going right. He’s the example, to me, of, like, the risk upside player that, like—
HANNAH: Hmm.
BOBBY: —serious teams take a flyer on, or like that serious teams are willing to, like, pay a premium for, even though it might not look good, you know, dollars and cents at the bottom of the balance sheet when you look at, like, his actual production. But when it’s right, it’s right. And when, like— when he is single-handedly just beating the Braves, it’s exhilarating. And, like, that’s what we’re here for, right? Like, we’re here for a player who just tortures another team’s fan base. And I think that, like, Castellanos has been that against the Braves in the last couple years. I mean, it’s been everybody, right? Like, Harper has hit really important home runs against Kyle Schwarber.
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: Zack Wheeler, like, he’s performed exceptionally well against the Braves too. Like, the Phillies just seem to get up for that franchise. But I just—
HANNAH: That’s a legitimately good rivalry, too. Like—
BOBBY: I know. It is.
HANNAH: Like, so high— such high baseball stakes, and then also feels like a genuine rivalry.
BOBBY: Like, they don’t like each other. Like, they do not fuck with each other.
HANNAH: Right.
BOBBY: Like the RCA—
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: —thing was one thing, but, like, just organizationally, it just doesn’t seem like— and they— they do it in such different ways, too. You know?
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: Like the Braves are like, “We will Hoover vacuum all of your young— good young players, and then we will offer them a below market extension that for some reason they sign.” And then Dombrowski is like, “Fuck it. Fuck it, we ball.” You know, like, “We’ll sign all of—”
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: “—the most obvious free agents and the power of friendship will— will get us over the line and John Middleton’s pocketbooks, so— and his— his cigarette earnings, but— but that’s okay.” I don’t know. That was my third and final up, Nick Castellanos torturing the Braves.
HANNAH: That was great. That would— would put about that on all my stuff. I was watching baseball Phillies with my parents, the Sunday Night Baseball was this past weekend, Labor Day, because it’s like hanging out with them up in the Woodstock. Again, this is— when you have a baby, you hang out with your parents on Labor Day weekend. And Castellanos had a walk-off hit, and then they cut to— I— why does— it’s not— I— I enjoy the Sunday Night Baseball broadcast. I think David Cohen is incredible, especially. Why do they not do the postgame interviews themselves? They have someone in studio for SportsCenter to postpone interview. That person, no discredit to them, has probably not been watching this entire game because they were about to go on TV.
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: [1:13:04] getting ready. And so, like, Nick Castellanos used the walk-off hit. I said— my parents were like, “He’s great. [1:13:13] They previously had said, “He’s, like, the worst person. I don’t know [1:13:14] can’t he hit that pitch?”
BOBBY: Right.
HANNAH: But, like, now he’s great. And I was like, “He’s so, like, weird, actually. Like— like delightfully weird. Like, I was like— just, like, very dry sense of humor and, like, will be really thoughtful sometimes, but then other times, like, if he— he thinks it’s like, a dumb question, like, seriously, shut it down, and then instantly delivered. Like, I was like, “Oh, this is gonna be tough. I forgot they were gonna get— he was gonna get interviewed by someone who, like, is not at the gate and possibly didn’t even watch the game.” First question was like, “What’d you see on that pitch?” And he was like, “Fastball.” And I was like, “Perfect.” I, like, walked out of the room. I was like, “Say no more, Nick Castellanos. I don’t need to see the rest of this interview. You just made me look like I know everything about baseball, because I was able to deliver to my parents, like, a little nugget of insight that—”
BOBBY: Yeah.
HANNAH: —immediately paid off.” So, yeah. That’s great.
BOBBY: He’s been a favorite of the show since 2018 when he was on the Cubs, and they asked him about the trade deadline and— and what the team would feel like— or, actually, I don’t think it was a trade deadline. I think it was like opening day. He was like, “What does Opening Day mean to you?” And Nick Castellanos was like, “Opening Day is just any other day.” And the reporter was kind of like, “Well, you know, it’s like a— it’s a special day.”
HANNAH: Play ball [1:14:18]
BOBBY: “Like, thing— things change.”
HANNAH: Yeah.
BOBBY: “You know?” And he’s like, “Why isn’t every day Opening Day? If you tell yourself every day is Opening Day, then every day could be Opening Day.” You know, like, it’s just— that’s how he is. Like, it’s just—
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: He’s kind of like a Reddit post come to life sometimes.
HANNAH: Yes.
BOBBY: In good and bad ways. Hannah Keyser, thank you so much. This was so much fun, Three Up, Three Down. I— I really appreciate you bringing all of the homework to the exercise and just having a really fun time. I will let you know what our listeners say about the— the protected gear.
HANNAH: The sliding mitts.
BOBBY: Yes.
HANNAH: Yeah, protected gear.
BOBBY: And—
HANNAH: Tell me about the— your favorite protective gear you’ve seen.
BOBBY: And I will pass that information along, but thank you so much for joining on the Patreon episode.
HANNAH: This was fun.
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello, everybody. I’m Alex Rodriguez. Tipping Pitches. Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most. Tipping Pitches. So, we’ll see you next week. See ya!
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