To celebrate the seventh anniversary of the podcast, Alex and Bobby share seven notable instances of the number seven throughout baseball history, including legendary players to wear the number, rules oriented around it, customs and traditions involving seven, and much more. By the end of this episode, if you still want to hear the number seven, you need to take a long, hard look in the mirror.
Links:
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Songs featured in this episode:
Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Transcript
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and be able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitch and kind of help out so he wasn’t tipping his pitches. So tipping pitches we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand what tipping pitches all about? That’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, our boy made news this week. Well, really, our boy provided a platform for Fox’s Kevin Burkhardt to make news this week.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Did you see this?
ALEX: I saw that Burkhart was— was chatting with him, but I didn’t actually see the nature of the conversation.
BOBBY: Hang on, before I— so Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly, who, as far as I’m concerned, is not a real person, even though he’s in this photo with Alex Rodriguez. Could be AI, not sure. They host a podcast for Bloomberg called The Deal.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: This— this podcast has come up on our podcast before.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And you’ve scoured it on the internet, I think, on YouTube. Do you watch the YouTube version?
ALEX: I— I’ve done some of the YouTube versions recently. I’ve been getting the transcripts of— of all of them for a yet to be revealed project.
BOBBY: Is that right?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Did we talk about this offline?
ALEX: We did, briefly.
BOBBY: Okay. That’s great. Moving on, from the fact that I’m forgetting conversations that we have in real life, Kevin Burkhardt was the guest on this week’s episode— this past week’s episode released on the same day that we released our most recent episode.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: Hmm. Competition.
ALEX: Counter programming.
BOBBY: It was counter programming, the way that they were talking about [1:43]
ALEX: Sure.
BOBBY: My biggest takeaway— I listened to this. In fact, I was listening actively to this as you showed up to my apartment today, to record this podcast, because I was looking for the moment that got pulled out into an awful announcing article about Kevin Burkhardt’s take about strikeouts in today’s game.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And now, listener, I am going to play that take for you. We are going to talk about it here in the cold open. But before we do, this podcast is bad, bro.
ALEX: Yeah, I know.
BOBBY: It’s a badly made podcast and it’s weirdly edited. It—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You can easily tell that the conversation was, like, three times as long.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: And it was cut down to 45 minutes for the sake of the pod.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: That’s bad. That’s a bad— that’s bad job. That’s a bad job.
ALEX: I agree.
BOBBY: The first thing that stuck out to me about why the podcast is bad is Alex Rodriguez’s ad reads, which is the first thing that you hear when you listen to it, and I’m gonna play one for you.
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: We could all use more time. amazon business offers smart business buying solutions, so you can spend more time growing your business and less time doing admin. I can see why they call it smart. Learn more at amazonbusiness.com.
SPEAKER 4: A new era of—
BOBBY: “I can see why they call it smart.” Should I pull that clip and put that in our— in our intro? Tipping Pitches—
ALEX: I can see—
BOBBY: —I can see why they call it smart. What is that ad read?
ALEX: Zero— zero rizz. Zer rizz, whatsoever.
BOBBY: It— no, I’m— I’m gonna try to do this without getting myself in trouble.
ALEX: Okay. That’s good.
BOBBY: A technology exists in the world that can create the likeness of someone else’s voice and have an AI read it.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: So basically, like if you have— if you have a person say a bunch of phrases using every possible syllabic combination in the English language, and then you can train it like a Siri voice—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —to sound like that. Do you think that that was actually Alex Rodriguez reading that ad, or do you think it was AI? Not A-Rod but AI?
ALEX: I— a part of me thinks that A-Rod wouldn’t want to give that up. You know, he’s like—
BOBBY: He wants to put his voice behind Amazon Business.
ALEX: Exactly. He’s like, “This is a product I believe in.”
BOBBY: But like— okay, wait.
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: We could all use more time. Amazon Business offers smart business buying solutions, so you can spend more time growing your business and less time doing admin. I can see why they call it smart. Learn more at amazonbusiness.com.
SPEAKER 4: A new era—
BOBBY: The rest sounds like him but , “I can see why they call it smart”—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —sounds like AI.
ALEX: I— I— I mean, like, obviously, you know, there are a couple words that are repeated in there. He says business a couple times, and the inflections are different, which makes me think that it’s real. He, once again, just doesn’t have the charisma to be like, “Hey, here’s a script. Read this like you give an ounce of shit.”
BOBBY: He’s TV-trained, though. Like ,they should be able to do this— someone who’s TV-trained should be able to do an ad spot, a 15-second ad spot in their sleep and sound better than that.
ALEX: Right. But, like—
BOBBY: It’s almost insulting to the Bloomberg listeners, who believe in Amazon Business such as myself.
ALEX: I don’t know. I— if you’re listening to The Deal with Jason Kelly and Alex Rodriguez, I— you— you get what you pay for.
BOBBY: Honestly, you said The Deal and I was like, “That’s not what it’s called.” And then I rechecked the photo and, like, that is what it’s called.
ALEX: That it’s—
[laughter]
BOBBY: But I— I didn’t pay anything. This is free content.
ALEX: That’s— yes, exactly.
BOBBY: Okay. Now, I’m gonna get to the clip that I actually went and found about Kevin— Fox’s— Fox Sports’ Kevin Burkhardt, who, by the way, I am pro. I’m pro Kevin Burkhardt.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I think he’s a fine guy. He got to start with the Mets broadcast, so I have a soft spot for him.
ALEX: He’s a— he’s a good broadcaster.
BOBBY: However, this take, it comes on the heels of them talking about— they spend a lot of time talking about the Olympics, and Alex Rodriguez’s time over in France, watching the Olympics, and what has stood out. And he talked a lot about, like, the Timberwolves players who are there, who he’s been observing. And after that whole conversation, they got into a conversation about— I believe the Jason Kelly question was just like, “So what do you think about the state of baseball?” And of course, they got started talking about the age-old thing that we have banned from this podcast at least once, if not multiple times. The baseball is dying conversation.
ALEX: Oh, God.
BOBBY: And how we need— oh, I’m not sure if you know this, Alex, we need to market our players better.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: Should you think anyone at MLB is considering marketing the players?
ALEX: That’s a really good idea.
BOBBY: We should write them an email.
ALEX: We should, and say, “Hey, I heard this spot on The Deal with Jason Kelly and Alex Rodriguez featuring Kevin Burkhardt.”
BOBBY: So they spent about 10 minutes talking about how baseball could market their players better, including Alex Rodriguez insinuating that MLB should have had a presence at the Olympics, even though there’s not baseball there.
ALEX: Yeah. I— I mean, I know that conversation’s been happening about, like, baseball in the Olympics, 2028, some players are in favor of it.
BOBBY: I’m in favor of it.
ALEX: I’m in favor of it. I think it’s weird. I—
BOBBY: We’d probably lose.
ALEX: I— we’d probably lose. Also, I don’t know how it would happen in, like, the middle of the season, but that’s not what this is about. We’re— we’re talking Kevin Burkhardt on the state of the game.
BOBBY: We had a 60-game season. We had a 60 game season.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Okay?
ALEX: That’s true.
BOBBY: We can have a three-week break for the fucking Olympics, which are happening in the United States of America, against everybody’s desires. Here’s what Kevin Burkhardt then followed up and said about another thing that is hindering the expansion of our great game.
KEVIN: And then I get why we’ve gotten to where we’ve gotten with the lack of action, with the three true outcomes, which is home or walk, strikeout. I understand it’s because what the numbers have said and we’re following the math, which I get. But I would find some way to penalize a strikeout more than just it’s an out. There needs to be some way and I’m— I’m not sure, just off the top of my head, answering your question what it would be, but the strikeout has become all too commonplace. You know, when you played— I mean, you’ve told me this, you were embarrassed to strikeout. You talked to all the greats. They were embarrassed to strikeout. Doesn’t matter anymore. And I think we’ve got to find a way to make that a penalty to increase contact.
JASON: All right. So we do have to talk football for just a second in part because—
BOBBY: What? I— I left that part in the end, because Jason Kelly hears that take and just immediately— he’s like, “Let’s talk football.”
ALEX: he’s like, “All right. Never mind. I’m sorry I asked.”
BOBBY: No, actually, what definitely happened there was they cut the rest of that conversation.
ALEX: Right. Yeah. What do you mean— like— like, what— I— I would like Kevin to come on our podcast—
BOBBY: If you strike out—
ALEX: —and tell us what his ideas are.
BOBBY: Inning over? Strikeout, inning over?
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: Two outs? You lose your spot in the lineup?
ALEX: Right. Maybe— maybe we incorporate up like a penalty box.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like, this player sits out for the next inning.
BOBBY: Oh.
ALEX: It’s like, “Sorry, you lost your center fielder.”
BOBBY: Yeah. Ooh. I kind of like that. It’s like dodgeball, you know? If you strike out, you’re out. And you’re just like— if your whole lineup strikes out, the game ends—
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: —really. I mean, this is like Savannah Bananas stuff, man.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: We— stop trying to change the game. Why are people—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Everybody’s trying to change the game. They did talk about the rule changes and how they’ve had a positive impact on a lot of the things that maybe felt a little bit stale about the game over the last four or five years. But then they immediately are just like, “Well, we need to chase that high again. We need to penalize strikeouts more. Got— back in your day, Alex Rodriguez, people used to take pride in not striking out.” It’s like, is a weak ground ball to the right side that much better than striking out in terms of attracting young viewers?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like, that’s what you’re asking for.
ALEX: It’s also like— this— and—
BOBBY: By the way, we have a whole offense crisis in baseball, and so you’re gonna penalize the offense—
ALEX: I know. That’s— yes.
BOBBY: —more for the thing that they can’t help but keep doing?
ALEX: That’s the other thing that I was gonna say. It’s like, are you saying that players are just, like, not—
BOBBY: Choosing to strike out?
ALEX: Or choosing to strike out, like, actually, don’t care that much? Because I don’t think that’s the case.
BOBBY: It’s a macro change that’s happened to the game. It’s not micro players individual fault that there are more strikeouts. It’—s it’s a confluence of things. And— but unfortunately, we have a lot of people being like, “Well, if players just cared more about not striking out.” It’s like— it’s not that easy, man.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: “Look at this shit that’s up there. Like, look at what they’re seeing.”
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s— it’s this generation, man. They just want instant gratification.
BOBBY: They don’t want to work anymore.
ALEX: They don’t want to work— you know, they want— they’re like, “I need— I need that fix. I need the ball going the other way. Come on.” I don’t know, the long arc of the game bends towards, like, baseball. At the end of the day, we’re still gonna be playing it. It’s gonna be here tomorrow. It’s gonna be here the next day. Like, you don’t have to reflexively respond to everything. It’s like the game go— goes through ebbs and flows. Let that— let that happen. Don’t try and put your thumb on the scale every time you think the game is changing slightly.
BOBBY: Also, like there’s no other better punishment for a strikeout. That is the worst kind of out.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And teams know that.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: That’s why pitchers who can’t strike people out don’t make the Majors. And that’s why hitters who strike out too much, there is a line.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You know? You can’t— you can’t be Amed Rosario. You can’t. You can’t be Amed Rosario, it’d be an everyday player. You get DFA’d and then the Dodgers pick you up, year over year.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: I mean, teams know this. Analytics people know this, like the big bad werewolf, the analytics community knows this. It’s just like people who are just really looking for low-hanging fruit—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —and ways to criticize the game, because, for whatever reason, as sports fans, we just have a— a critique fix, you know? We just have an absolute need and desire to criticize something. And I mean, who am I to say? Like, we sit here and criticize something about baseball every single day.
ALEX: I think they should slime the players who— who strike out, you know?
BOBBY: They should wear a dunce cap.
ALEX: They should wear— well, and then it’s great, because you can, like, look out onto the field, no— no showers or anything, so it’s like, “Wow, everyone’s green, except for Luis Arraez. Must be good, must be nice.”
BOBBY: Except Luis Arraez is not even that good.
ALEX: Yeah, I know, I know.
BOBBY: That’s the thing. They would have Shohei Ohtani trade strikeouts for his 475-foot home runs. People like this. It’s like he’s hitting 307, but if he didn’t swing so hard all the time. Just think, he could be hitting 320—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —with 15 fewer home runs. I mean, then— I mean, the fans would be rolling.
ALEX: People would be flocking at the gates.
BOBBY: We— we’d have to turn people away at the gates.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So dumb. Okay. We actually have a fun podcast lined up for you guys today. It’s fun and it’s— it’s funny that we forgot our own seven-year anniversary. This is maybe like the fourth time in the history of the podcast that we have forgotten the anniversary of the podcast and forgotten to talk about it, and done it one or two or three weeks late on the feed. But this year, we came up with an idea for an episode to do, and then we forgot to do it. And that idea is we are going to— since it is our seventh anniversary of doing the show, where it was on July 31st, we are going to do an exploration of the number seven in the history of baseball. Now, I’m cribbing this idea in large part from my friends at the Blank Check Podcast, who for their live show this past year, when they had their ninth anniversary of doing the show, they did an exploration of the nine most nine things in movie history, which was very funny. Lovely show. Love those guys. Very creative execution of an anniversary show. So we’re going to do something akin to that here on the Tipping Pitches feed, and we’re going to put our own little flavor on it as well. So I’m excited to do this, and it wouldn’t be the seventh year of doing the podcast if we didn’t bury the actual real episode idea behind 15 minutes of making fun of Alex Rodriguez’s podcast.
ALEX: Of course, that’s what you come here for.
BOBBY: So the Tipping Pitches seventh anniversary pod, two and a half weeks late, is coming up. But before we get to it, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I’m Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[theme]
BOBBY: Thank you to this week’s new patrons, Samuel and Andrew. See, look at this. You sign up to be a patron, and it just so happens that you are a patron on the seventh anniversary podcast that is two weeks late.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: This is the— the type of reward that you can get for signing up to be a Tipping Pitches patron. You will forever live in fame, not in infamy.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: That’s how the phrase usually goes, but this is not an infamous moment.
ALEX: Not yet, at least.
BOBBY: Not until—
ALEX: Another— another— another Sam, another Samuel.
BOBBY: Has anyone ever struck out seven times in the game?
ALEX: I— I feel like after six, you probably get benched, right? Like—
BOBBY: Well, what if you’re really good?
ALEX: Are you looking it up right now?
BOBBY: I am. No, I don’t want the AI answer. The professional baseball record for strikeouts in a single game belongs to Khalil Lee, who was a member of the Minor League Lexington legends. So this is not Major League.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Class A affiliate of the Kansas City Royals, struck out eight times in a 21-inning game in 2017.
ALEX: Jesus.
BOBBY: He made the majors after that.
ALEX: Yeah, I know. When— you said that was not too long ago?
BOBBY: 2017.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I mean, Khalil Lee, I know him, he was on the Mets.
ALEX: Right, yeah. All right. So the answer is yea— as we were—
BOBBY: Only eight players have had six strikeouts in one game, so six is the Major League record. And it’s happened eight times. Most recently, Jeff Jenkins in 2004 for the Milwaukee Brewers. All of them were in extra-inning games, though.
ALEX: Well, yes. Yeah.
BOBBY: This was in a 17-inning game. The lowest amount of innings here is 13. Alex Gonzalez struck out 13— struck out six times in a 13-inning game for the Blue Jays in 1998.
ALEX: That’s brutal.
BOBBY: Nobody struck out seven times in a game.
ALEX: Well, Khalil Lee.
BOBBY: No, he struck out eight. That’s not seven.
ALEX: But— but he did also strike out seven times.
BOBBY: For a brief moment.
ALEX: For a brief moment.
BOBBY: And then he came up one more time, and he was like, “I’m just gonna watch three right down the middle, I guess.”
ALEX: Here’s the thing, they’re a little more motivated if they were gonna get slimed while they were up there. Maybe— maybe Khalil Lee says, “I’m gonna try and put bat to ball on this one.”
BOBBY: If they were gonna have to sit out the next inning—
ALEX: Yeah, exactly.
BOBBY: —they were gonna have to go sit in the penalty box like dodgeball. Now, we’re talking.
ALEX: Bobby, we had an opportunity this week for the bingo card, an opportunity—
BOBBY: Did we?
ALEX: —that we didn’t think was gonna arise at one point.
BOBBY: Oh, this is true. My reporting— my fake news reporting was foiled mere weeks after I reported it out.
ALEX: The Texas Rangers did, in fact, go to the White House.
BOBBY: Now, we can’t say for certain that Biden didn’t mess up a player’s name, but we don’t have evidence of it.
ALEX: Right. He may have in private. I did watch the—
BOBBY: Yeah, you did.
ALEX: Of course, I did. Like, I watched it twice.
BOBBY: Like, you’re the best. You’re the best.[16:35]
ALEX: To make sure I didn’t miss it.
BOBBY: You could have fed it into AI and asked the AI the question.
ALEX: Right. Yeah. It’d be like, “Joe Biden’s not the president.”
BOBBY: By the way, wait, now that you mentioned Biden and not being the president, I have to ask.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: What do you think about the 2020 election? No, I’m just kidding. I have to ask, have you been watching all of these videos of Trump being like, “And then Biden’s not running, and what are they doing to him?”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: “You know, I— I went up there and I debated him, and now he’s not going to be there anymore.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And it just sounds really like he misses him?
ALEX: He does miss him, yeah. He is not looking too great these days, I’m just gonna say.
BOBBY: Who, Don?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I mean, I saw a lot of people joking that he’s basically going through Final Fantasy right now.
ALEX: I mean, he looks despondent, you know? I thi— I do think he appreciated Joe as—
BOBBY: It’s—
ALEX: —as a worthy foe.
BOBBY: It’s like that episode where SpongeBob and Mr. Krabs get separated, and SpongeBob has to go work for the Chum Bucket, and they’re like singing to each other in the middle of the night.
ALEX: Yeah. Wow. Great reference.
BOBBY: Thank you. I work hard at this.
ALEX: You do work hard at this.
BOBBY: For nothing, but I do work hard.
ALEX: All that to say, I think the only full name he said was Corey Seager. Thereafter, he just—
BOBBY: God, I would have loved if he said Bob Seger. That would have been all time.
ALEX: Thereafter, he just started using single names, and I— my theory is that he was like, “Corey Seager, I can do that.” And then he got— the next name he said was— was— he was referring to Nathan Eovaldi.
BOBBY: Ooh, tough one.
ALEX: And so my theory is that who he just referred to as Nathan, he was like, “You’re a good pitcher, Nathan.”
BOBBY: What if he was like, “Nasty Nate.”?
ALEX: That— that would— he’d be back [18:19]
BOBBY: Surging in the polls. Running as independent.
ALEX: Yup. I’m running— I’m running into November. He— he—
BOBBY: “And you came back after your third TJ. Nasty Nate, get up here, Jack.”
ALEX: I think he just— I think he saw Eovaldi and was like, “Ooh, I can’t do that.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: “Your pitcher, Nathan.” And then he realized he dug himself a hole because he just referred to him with a— so he was like, “And Garcia had— had the most RBI. And— and your manager, Bruce, and your GM, Chris.” And I’m like, “Are you on—” like I think he’s—
BOBBY: Sounds like he was nailing it.
ALEX: He was nailing it, actually. He did a— he did a great job. But he did say that 28 out of every high school student is Latino.
BOBBY: Should we be dropping audio of this in the pod?
ALEX: I know, right. Yeah, maybe.
BOBBY: Where did you watch this? Like, on their YouTube channel?
ALEX: Yeah, they like—
BOBBY: On the White House’s YouTube channel?
ALEX: It was on their X the everything app, X the everything platform.
BOBBY: Platform, platform.
ALEX: Their—
BOBBY: It’s not just an app.
ALEX: No, it’s— no, it’s not. It’s way more than that.
BOBBY: It’s a fucking marketplace.
ALEX: Well, that’s where I— that’s where I look for jobs these days.
BOBBY: A forum?
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Yeah, a job board.
ALEX: Right. Town square.
BOBBY: A town— that’s what I was trying to think of. Just— thinking Rome, you know, The Forum.
ALEX: Right, right.
BOBBY: You got there, eventually. You’re going to Rome soon. Forums are on the mind.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: What do you think your best pod from Rome is going to be?
ALEX: My best—
BOBBY: Because we’re going to be doing live— live diary entries from your— your honeymoon in Rome.
ALEX: Right, yeah. I— well, I don’t— it’s— it’s hard to say.
BOBBY: Men on the street interviews.
ALEX: I [19:54] experience—
BOBBY: Asking what they think about Alex Rodriguez.
ALEX: What do you think about the state of baseball these days?
BOBBY: Sorry, [19:59]
ALEX: What do you think we can do to—
BOBBY: Strike out less?
ALEX: —to strike out less? To get more people invested in the game?
BOBBY: More betting, more betting, less strikeouts. That pretty much does it right there.
ALEX: That’s— that’s it.
BOBBY: Well, do they have the virtual ballpark in Italy yet? Or is that just a USA beta program?
ALEX: Oh, that’s a— you know, I— I’m gonna be locked in on this over there. I’m exclusively consuming—
BOBBY: Dude, when you’re in a foreign country, you can watch every game blackout-free. It’s awesome. I was in Canada just watching the Mets.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s great. I mean, Canada is the one where you actually can’t watch every [20:32]
ALEX: Right, yes.
BOBBY: But I wasn’t trying to watch the Blue Jays. No offense. I think Blue Jays fans are often not trying to watch the Blue Jays this season.
ALEX: Well, we— aren’t we? We’re trying to watch the Blue Jays very soon and—
BOBBY: We are going to be watching the Blue Jays in seven days’ time from the time that we’re recording this podcast. We are recording this on August 10th, so please, I— I apologize in advance for the plethora of news that happens on August 11th. You’ll be hearing this episode hopefully on August 12th. Also, by the way, I know I said that we would be publishing this on Thursday, but here it is, it’s on Monday. And it’s not going to be a two-part episode. It’s just gonna be a one-part episode. Sometimes things change.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Flexibility, adaptability.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: That’s what it takes to not strike out when you go up to the plate.
ALEX: Super utility?
BOBBY: We’re not quite there yet.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: We are a utility podcast, though.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: We cover a lot of topics. We can be serious. We can be silly. We can do baseball analysis from time to time.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You know, like IKF could catch in a pinch these days, but you wouldn’t want him back there 100 games a year. Shall we do our seven— our seven, seven, and seven?
ALEX: I think let’s— I think let’s get to it. Let’s dive right in.
BOBBY: I don’t know what we’re calling this.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Would you like to reflect on the seven years of doing this podcast at all before we started this exercise? Or would you like—
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: —to just let those things come up naturally as we—
ALEX: It’s been— it’s been seven years.
BOBBY: It’s been— it’s been a ride.
ALEX: And I’ve felt all seven of them. I feel them all in my back right now.
BOBBY: Would you say that we’re seasoned vets, or just vets?
ALEX: Hmm. We— should we bring Jeff Passan on to—
BOBBY: Well, can you be—
ALEX: —help us break down the difference?
BOBBY: Can you be a super utility player and a seasoned vet? I would argue you can.
ALEX: I think so.
BOBBY: So you can’t be a seasoned vet and a superstar, because seasoned vet implies that that’s like the highest title that you hold.
ALEX: Sure. Yeah.
BOBBY: When you if you are, indeed, a superstar [22:28] —
ALEX: Right. Then, of course— of course you are a seasoned vet.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: That comes with the territory.
BOBBY: Exactly. I think we’re seasoned vets.
ALEX: I think—
BOBBY: We’ve been around the block.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: We hit free agency last year. No, we didn’t do anything with it, but our service—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —time clock crossed 6:00. That would have been a good bit to do on the pod a year ago.
ALEX: Yeah, go to free agency?
BOBBY: Yeah. Not a lot of people lining up, though.
ALEX: A lot of offers on the table right now.
BOBBY: We’re like— we could be like Jose Iglesias signing a Minor League for agent deal, turning it into a music contract.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I’ve lost the [23:04]
ALEX: I’m— I’m— I’m lost [23:05]
BOBBY: Okay, great. Let’s start the seventh anniversary pod. So we’re just going to go through seven instances of the number seven in baseball history. We’re just in baseball— in the baseball community.
ALEX: Right. It is— it’s a broad look at the ways that the number seven shows up. And— and, you know, we’re— we’re using this as a sort of excuse to talk about things that we don’t often get to talk about, examine elements of the game that maybe we take for granted. But that— sometimes, you know, have an outsized role in our minds and our experience of watching baseball and consuming baseball, so I’m excited for this. This was— this was fun to talk about and prepare for. We’ve got some honorable mentions coming at the end as well.
BOBBY: No, I mean, the honorable mentions is what everybody came for.
ALEX: That is— yes. We saved some of the best stuff for last.
BOBBY: The first seven in the Tipping Pitches seven for the seventh anniversary of doing this podcast—
ALEX: Which number?
BOBBY: —is players who wear number seven—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —now throughout baseball history.
ALEX: Crazy. There have been seven of them.
BOBBY: Can’t wait ’till get to the 99th player to wear 99.
ALEX: Oh, my God.
BOBBY: We should—
ALEX: What?
BOBBY: We don’t have time for this, but why does Aaron Judge wear number 99?
ALEX: No. Right, we don’t have time for this.
BOBBY: Just, like, that’s dumb, right? It’s actually because of shit like the first player on this players to wear number seven list, Mickey Mantle, because half the Yankees jersey numbers are retired.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Mickey Mantle, the MLB— these are— this is by WAR, by the way. I went to Baseball Reference, and I just sorted by WAR. Mickey Mantle, the— the most WAR ever for a player who primarily wore the number seven. Pudge Rodriguez, number two. Not what I would have guessed. Kenny Lofton number three. Craig Biggio. Twins legend, Joe Mauer with the full support of future Vice President of the United States, Tim Walsh. Did you see this?
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: He just, like, has tweets from the past being like, “So happy to see Joe Mauer get inducted into the Hall of Fame.” And people were passing it around, like, at least he’s not one of those weird Twins fans who, for some reason, hates Joe Mauer and think he’s overrated.
ALEX: That’s— yeah, that’s true.
BOBBY: He passes another test. Just keeps him coming. And J.D. Drew, that’s where I cut the line off. I was like, “J.D. Drew, like we’re good.”
ALEX: You’re like, “Okay.”
BOBBY: Good— good— good career, J.D. Drew. Now, the current players who wear number seven. This is a really talented list of players. Why do you think that is? Is it because seven is, like, a sexy single digit number?
ALEX: I— kind of, yeah.
BOBBY: It seems like a middle infielder’s number and an—an athlete’s position number. Basically, there’s a lot of shortstops and a lot of, like, centerfielders or outfielders on this list.
ALEX: Yeah, I do feel like— I mean, I— I feel like the single digit numbers usually go to those players who are, I don’t know, a little more nimble.
BOBBY: Swaggier.
ALEX: Little swaggier. This is all backed up by data and science. I want to be very clear.
BOBBY: I mean, we are data and science first podcast. I did not write down the players who wear number 77, although I was tempted, because it’s a bunch of weird relievers.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I don’t know— I don’t know how that came to be. Okay, the current players who are number seven, Bobby Witt. Jr.
ALEX: Heard of him.
BOBBY: Corbin Carroll, Jackson Holiday, Masataka Yoshida, Dansby Swanson, Dominic Fletcher who’s on the White Sox. Bet you knew that. Spencer Steer on the Reds. Brendan Rodgers, Shelby Miller, who I don’t know if you know this, he plays for the Tigers. Shelby Miller is still in the league. That’s—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —news to me. Jo Adell, Trea Turner, super utility man IKF, Ha-Seong Kim, Jorge Polanco, Jose Caballero, and that’s it for the current players who were number seven.
ALEX: Not a bad list. You know— you know what I— I will say, couple utility players on here.
BOBBY: Yeah [27:01]
ALEX: At least one super.
BOBBY: One super. I would say Ha-Seong Kim is— is at least utility, if not, super. Everyone else, probably not. I’m sure Corbin Carroll could play second if you give him a couple years. Dansby Swanson could play center field, right?
ALEX: Absolutely.
BOBBY: Now, there is a notable player who wore number seven for one season.
ALEX: Who’s that?
BOBBY: And that player also happened to win seven Most Valuable Player awards. That’s Barry Bonds, who wore seven for his first season in Major League Baseball. I love that idea that he, like, came up and they couldn’t get his number, and then it’s like, “Okay. Now, I’m Barry Bonds.”
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: “I’m not gotta change my number.” Seven MVPs, Alex, is that notable?
ALEX: That is the most.
BOBBY: How is that even possible?
ALEX: I really don’t understand how it’s po— I mean, just like, once again, one of the most insane Baseball Reference pages to look at for very obvious reasons.
BOBBY: The most insane, yeah.
ALEX: Also, 762 home runs.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: That starts with seven.
BOBBY: 688 intentional walks, that rounds up to 700.
ALEX: 73 home runs in a season.
BOBBY: That starts with a seven.
ALEX: And he was the sixth overall pick in the 1985 MLB Draft, which comes right before—
BOBBY: The seventh pick.
ALEX: —the seventh pick.
BOBBY: Wait, what position did he play? Left field.
ALEX: Whoa. No. Wow. Nice— nice pull.
BOBBY: I’m just looking at his Baseball Reference, and there’s a ton of sevens in a row. I’m like, “Wait, what’s that?” Really, he was kind of more of a DH at the end there.
ALEX: Yes, yeah.
BOBBY: But, you know, ate up a couple innings in left field when he needed to. All right. Wanted to start off easy with the— with the players wearing seven, because when you Google baseball and seven, it’s just a bunch of baseball players who wear number seven.
ALEX: Yup. Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Took a little bit of a deeper research to get into the other stuff.
ALEX: It did, yes. So we’re— so we’re starting with some— with some easy ones and— and we’ll get to some— there’s some fun anecdotes in here.
BOBBY: Who’s your favorite player on this list?
ALEX: On the, like, active players list, or—
BOBBY: Either.
ALEX: —or just— or just either?
BOBBY: Either. I mean, you could pick someone from the active player list. I don’t see anyone on here that, like, really is one of your guys.
ALEX: No. Maybe Kenny Lofton.
BOBBY: Great answer.
ALEX: He’s a sick player.
BOBBY: Sick player.
ALEX: So sick.
BOBBY: They don’t make him like that anymore.
ALEX: No, they really don’t.
BOBBY: In the sense that his pants fits so perfectly, and he was really fast.
ALEX: Yes. I mean, I love Joe Mauer, too.
BOBBY: Me, too.
ALEX: He’s— he’s like a— he’s like— I— I don’t know. I don’t want to call him, like, boring, so to speak, but he was so consistent.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Until, obviously, injuries kind of—
BOBBY: Prevented him from his valuable skill.
ALEX: —prevented him— right. Yes, exactly.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But I don’t know, he just— a cornerstone, I feel, like of my sort of baseball experience growing up. It was like, “Oh, yeah. Joe Mauer, he’s like— he’s the best catcher ever, right?”
BOBBY: Well, he’s not.
ALEX: [29:59]
BOBBY: He hasn’t surpassed Pudge.
ALEX: That’s true.
BOBBY: Who’s the best catcher to wear number seven, and I guess he’s not the best catcher ever. Did you ever wear a number seven? What were your baseball numbers? I don’t think we’ve ever talked about this. It actually came up at the bar last night, but—
ALEX: That’s true. Yes. Well, I mean, you don’t know my first number was— when I was—
BOBBY: 99?
ALEX: No. Guess again.
BOBBY: I know the answer.
ALEX: 13.
BOBBY: Yeah. That’s why you have 13 tattooed on your back in the size of jersey lettering.
ALEX: Right. Yeah.
BOBBY: This is a coincidence that you have the name Rodriguez over top of it.
ALEX: That was in— I don’t know, that was my first year of Little League. I was 13. I was— I was going by—
BOBBY: Why did you choose that? Was it like an A’s player who was wearing 13 at the time? Or are you just, like, “That’s a cool number.”?
ALEX: No. I actually— I actually don’t. I think it was just a cool number. I was like, “13, that sounds— that sounds sick.” And hey, my nickname— that’s where I— I— I garnered the nickname, A-Bae, [30:56] which obviously a reference to my Alex.
BOBBY: A-Rod. Right, yeah.
ALEX: A-Rod, who famously for number—
BOBBY: 13.
ALEX: —13. This is great. This is great content. We’re already talking about a different number. What? It was that and four.
BOBBY: Four is a good number for you.
ALEX: Four is a— made more sense, yeah.
BOBBY: You strike me as a four.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: 13, sorry. Don’t imagine you have enough power for the number 13.
ALEX: That’s fair. I did not.
BOBBY: I don’t think I ever wore number seven. I wore 11 my whole life in all sports.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And then in high school, on the basketball team, I wore 21, because 11 was already taken.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: When I played football, I wore number two.
ALEX: So ones and twos, man.
BOBBY: Pretty much. I actually surprised myself by enjoying wearing the number two because I hate even numbers. I hate even numbers. I’m a pure odd number guy. I think odd numbers look—
ALEX: Fascinating.
BOBBY: —cooler.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: They sound cooler.
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: They feel more natural to me. The lettering is better—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —on odd numbers.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Those are the crooked numbers that we’re looking for in baseball.
ALEX: They are crooked numbers, exactly.
BOBBY: However, if I had to choose, I do think two would be the most odd-looking even number. Like it curves and then it has a lot of straight lines in it. Come on, bear with me, right?
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: You kind of see where I’m coming from?
ALEX: I— I do. I had two. Two is a great number.
BOBBY: Two is a good number. I chose it because Matt Ryan was wearing number two at the time, and I sort of liked his vibe as a quarterback.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That’s what I chose for football.
ALEX: You’re like a fan— a Falcons guy?
BOBBY: Not really. No. This was more like Boston College Matt Ryan. He’s gunslinging.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: I grew up with someone who was his cousin, so—
ALEX: Wow.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: That’s—
BOBBY: In case you’re interested.
ALEX: All right. Tuck that one away.
BOBBY: Just keep that one in your back pocket for any future pods.
ALEX: Right. I can’t wait to know what crucial piece of information just left my brain so that I can remember that.
BOBBY: And also that I only wore— or I only like odd numbers.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: When I turn the volume up on the television, always keep it on an odd number.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Always.
ALEX: Five, great number.
BOBBY: Great number.
ALEX: Great number.
BOBBY: Six, dumbass number, horrible number.
ALEX: You know what is a great number, though?
BOBBY: Seven.
ALEX: Seven.
BOBBY: Another odd one. We didn’t do this last year for the sixth anniversary, and guess what? We’re not doing it next year for the eight.
ALEX: This—
BOBBY: But come talk to me at nine.
ALEX: This is already an amazing podcast, I just want to say.
BOBBY: Do you want to go to the second seven?
ALEX: Let’s go.
BOBBY: Let’s go to the second seven on the Tipping Pitches seven—
ALEX: [33:32] yeah.
BOBBY: —for our seventh anniversary. The second seven is game seven, or just game sevens. The idea of game sevens. Take it away. The two most beautiful words in sports, Alex. Game—
ALEX: Game seven.
BOBBY: —seven.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: The, like, Kevin Burkhardt shit.
ALEX: Yeah, they’ve been doing this a while, 1905.
BOBBY: That was when the first game seven was?
ALEX: That’s when they— we had the first game seven in the—
BOBBY: World Series.
ALEX: —World Series. Yeah. The— that—
BOBBY: But that was the only series that they were doing it for at the time. The other series—
ALEX: Correct, correct. The LCS was still a game five and—
BOBBY: Well, they didn’t even have the LCS back then. It was just like you [34:11] best of record—
ALEX: Right, yes.
BOBBY: —went straight to the World Series. Should we bring that back? Should we get rid of playoffs?
ALEX: Yeah, it’s just a fan vote at the end.
BOBBY: Imagine how deranged sports fans would be now about like a regular season lost on August 9th, if it meant that that was actually taking your chance away of going to the World Series.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Whereas now people are really deranged about it, but it means nothing.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: In the case where it would send you to the World Series or not, your regular season record, people would actually, like, jump out of buildings.
ALEX: Actually, I— I’d like to correct myself—
BOBBY: Okay.
Alex —real— real quick. 1905 is when they first employed the game seven format.
BOBBY: Okay. Yeah.
ALEX: But we did not actually get the first game seven until 1909 between the Pittsburgh Pirates and the Detroit Tigers. Pirates won that one, 8-0. So—
BOBBY: Ooh, so close.
ALEX: Yeah. And then— and then again, the LCS—
BOBBY: You could have just lied. You could have just said seven and everyone would be like, “Whoa.”
ALEX: Yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: And then never looked it up.
ALEX: The LCS was implemented in 1969 as a— as a five-game series, and then switched to best of seven in 1985.
BOBBY: And thank God it did, because it took the Mets seven to beat the Houston Astros in 1986 in the National League Championship Series.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And they partied all the way home. I mean, some of baseball’s biggest moments, quite for— for obvious reasons, have happened in game seven, right? As the last— with regards to the World Series, it is the last game of the season, if it makes it that far, right? So, obviously, everything is kind of hinging on this. And— and it’s when you see players, like, really dig deep. We got Madison Bumgarner. Like that is— that is where the legend of Madison Bumgarner is kind of cemented, is when he goes five scoreless out of the bullpen in game seven of the 2014 World Series for the Giants. The— these are recent examples. Obviously, the Cubs game seven, when they won in 2016 was actually one of the most insane baseball games I’ve ever witnessed. Also, I just like to point out, which player has appeared in the most game sevens, Bobby?
BOBBY: In the World Series, or just period?
ALEX: Uh-hmm. I think— I think we’re talking World Series.
BOBBY: Okay. Most game sevens.
ALEX: Yeah. It’s— it’s like a— it tracks for the— for the purposes of this conversation.
BOBBY: Mickey Mantle.
ALEX: Yeah, there you go.
BOBBY: Took me a little bit. I was like— I just— my brain was like, “It’s A-Rod, A-Rod. The answer is A-Rod. Got to be A-Rod.”
ALEX: The answer is always A-Rod.
BOBBY: If he’s asking me a question, it’s A-Rod.
ALEX: Everything’s coming up A-Rod.
BOBBY: I’m like, “But he was only in the World Series once. It can’t be possible.” And that’s— that series didn’t go seven. I was there, I was alive.
ALEX: So game seven, I don’t— I don’t know. Do you have— do you have thoughts on— on game seven? Should we make it eight?
BOBBY: You know how many— okay, wait. Should we make it eight?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know there was a game eight in 1912.
ALEX: There was— yes, there was.
BOBBY: Because they allowed game two of the 1912 World Series to end in a tie.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Because the 11th inning, they just called it for darkness and then didn’t pick up from that point the next day. They called it for darkness and didn’t pay them for the game.
ALEX: That’s [37:40]
BOBBY: They didn’t pay them their revenue sharing check of the playoffs, of the game receipts. And it caused, like, serious discontent amongst the players. But anyway, what I was going to say, no, we should not make it eight. That makes absolutely zero sense at all. We should make it 11, though. Makes a lot more sense. Just keep it going. Just play it ’till December. Do you know how many game sevens have ended in a walk-off in baseball history?
ALEX: No way. Is— is it the obvious answer?
BOBBY: No, it’s 13. Yes, it’s seven. It’s seven game sevens have ended in a walk-off.
ALEX: Wow. Wow. Come on.
BOBBY: 18 game sevens have been one-run affairs. Largest margin of victory in game seven is when the Braves Beat the Cardinals 15-0 in the 1996 NLCS. That should, like, take a game off the series. Like that should be a six-game series. If you lose game seven by 15, it wasn’t even a seven-game series.
ALEX: Doing this exercise, I do feel a little bit— did— did you ever watch the rehearsal?
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: All right. Well, then, that makes my— my point kind of moot. There’s a guy who’s maybe [38:51] numbers in there.
BOBBY: Maybe you should about that.
ALEX: And he, like, sees— he, like, sees a license plate, and he’s like, “That’s a seven.” Like, I feel like— I feel like this guy. Anyway, that was somewhat meeting this reference, because I don’t think you can give me anything back on that.
BOBBY: I— I can.
ALEX: But anyway, that’s what— I’m that’s how I’m feeling as I sit [39:07] anyway.
BOBBY: Listen, I would love to— unfortunately, I just— game seven, I don’t have a lot of positive memories of my team winning a game seven. I— I don’t think the Mets have won a game seven in my life.
ALEX: Seventh game of the season?
BOBBY: They probably haven’t even won one of those in my life. I’m certain that— I guess it’s possible that they could have won one in the ’90s, but they lost game seven of the ’06 NLCS, the Endy Chavez catch, followed by the Carlos Beltran strikeout. And then—
ALEX: Wait, well, 19— 1986?
BOBBY: In my life, I said.
ALEX: Oh, oh, sorry, sorry, sorry, I got— yeah. Yes, you’re right about that. The Mets are—
BOBBY: Plus they lost games— game seven in the 1973 World Series, so that count— that balances out in 1986.
ALEX: Yeah. So they’re— they’re 1-3, Mets are, in game sevens.
BOBBY: And haven’t had one since 2006.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Honestly, I’m kind of thankful for that. My heart can’t handle game sevens. I mean, the game seven is great. Do you think baseball is the best game seven sport?
ALEX: As— as the only sport I remotely—
BOBBY: Like, do you think— do you think—
ALEX: Yes, 100%.
BOBBY: —the game improves the most between game six and game seven in baseball? Or do you think it’s— it’s better in a different sport?
ALEX: I mean—
BOBBY: I think it’s certainly better than, like, basketball.
ALEX: Yeah. Well, I— I think game seven is—
BOBBY: Blowouts in basketball in game seven all the time.
ALEX: Just because of baseball’s unpredictability—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —I think that’s what makes game seven so exciting. And it’s like— obviously, it’s— it’s true that in every sport, it’s like, “Wow, it all comes down to this.” But, like, I feel like in no other sport—
BOBBY: When it all comes down to this, but it’s like 68 LeBron James basketball possessions. It’s like, [40:50] you guys have a lot of control over that.”
ALEX: Right. I’m like, “All right. Okay.”
BOBBY: And it’s like four Mike— well, I was gonna say Mike Trout, that’s what— he’s never been in a game seven. When it’s four Alex Rodriguez at-bats.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Or four Mickey Mantle at-bats. You know, you could still lose that.
ALEX: Yeah. Especially if Madison Bumgarner is on the mound.
BOBBY: Bumgarner versus Mickey Mantle, who you got? What’s he up to?
ALEX: Madison Bumgarner?
BOBBY: No, Mickey Mantle.
[laughter]
ALEX: That’s a good question. I’ll look into that. But while I am, do you— do you have anything else on game seven you want to share?
BOBBY: No, I want to do the third seven on the Tipping Pitches seven for the seventh anniversary. That is John Neves. And John Neves, if you aren’t aware, sometimes referred to as Johnny, he was a— a jazz musician who died in 1988 at the age of 57. However, before that, he was a brief professional baseball player. He played in the Minors. Grew up in the Boston area, went to school at Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University in Tallahassee, Florida. Played in the Minors for a little while, and he is notable, Alex, because he wore the number seven on his jersey. However, he wore the number seven mirrored. It was backwards, because his last name Neves is seven spelled backwards. This comes from the Baseball Hall of Fame website. Johnny Neves of the Northern League Fargo Moorhead Twins. You— I mean, you’re a huge Northern League Fargo Moorhead Twins head.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That’s where Joe Mauer got his [42:21] wore— wore uniform number seven backwards on the back of his 1951 jersey. After all, his name spelled backwards is seven. I’m more interested in him as a jazz musician where he played a [42:33] bass.
ALEX: Yeah. Oh, my God.
BOBBY: Amongst something called richardvacca.com.
ALEX: Do you— do you have any of his music to play for us?
BOBBY: Oh, here we go.
[music]
ALEX: Hmm. Hmm.
BOBBY: Do you like jazz?
ALEX: I do like jazz.
BOBBY: Do you, like, listen to jazz a lot?
ALEX: Not actively. I have artists who I, like, follow.
BOBBY: Any suggestions for the listeners at home?
ALEX: This guy, John Coltrane, is crazy. Check him out. Check him out.
BOBBY: Someone at home being like, “I’m gonna write that down. John Coltrane.”
ALEX: John Coltrane.
BOBBY: I love jazz. That’s why I asked. I listened to jazz a lot.
ALEX: Do you— do you do it, like— like, recreationally? You’d be like, “Oh, I want to pop on this jazz album.” And, like— or are you like—
BOBBY: I do it mostly functionally.
ALEX: [43:31] doing something— right. Yeah.
BOBBY: The latter. Although I wish I was the type of person who could recreationally listen to jazz and, like, speak intelligently about my preferences between artists.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Most of the time, I just hear jazz, and I’m like, “Fuck. That’s sick.”
ALEX: Yeah. “That’s— wow, they— they snapped with this one.
BOBBY: I don’t often hear jazz and I’m like, “Well, that’s bad.”
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Because even if— even if I don’t really like it, I’m like, “They probably were going for something artistic here.” And I— I don’t know enough to say whether or not they got there.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: But it’s something that I really relate to about the filmmaker Damien Chazelle, is, like, most of his films are really just like— they answer the question, what if there was a guy who liked jazz too much?
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Yeah.
BOBBY: And I relate. Anyway, John Neves, I don’t have a ton— a ton more to say about him.
ALEX: John Neves—
BOBBY: But— but, like, he’s the perfect kind of example of something that— that comes up only on an episode like this. His— his— his name is spelled seven backwards, and he’s like, “I’m just gonna put a seven backwards.” [44:27] How are you— why are you allowed to do that?”
ALEX: Why are you allowed to do that?
BOBBY: How do you put that into the— the poor manager? Sitting there like, “Okay, how do I write this down into my— into my score book?”
ALEX: What— was it like a one-time thing over the—
BOBBY: They did for the 1951 season.
ALEX: —over the— over the course of the season.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Johnny Neves played in a quintet with trumpeter Herb Pomeroy.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Working with Pomeroy was John’s bread and butter.
ALEX: It was his bread and butter?
BOBBY: It was, according to Richard Vacca.
ALEX: What— what does that mean exactly? Working with him was his bread and bu—
BOBBY: Do you think working with me is your bread and butter?
ALEX: Kind of, yeah.
BOBBY: All right. Would you like to move on to the fourth number seven?
ALEX: Let’s do it.
BOBBY: The Tipping Pitches seven for the seventh anniversary. We’re on number four of number seven.
ALEX: I’m gonna start—
BOBBY: Fourth seven of seven.
ALEX: I’m gonna start calling it neves just from here on out.
BOBBY: That would be really confusing. I’m gonna go in and post and flip it.
ALEX: Okay. And play it backwards.
BOBBY: If you play the entire— by the way, at home, if you play the entire catalog of Tipping Pitches in reverse, it’s the future winning lottery codes.
ALEX: The fourth number seven that we have here on our list—
BOBBY: Fourth of seven, fourth seven of seven.
ALEX: Four of seven.
BOBBY: Fourth out of seven of the sevens.
ALEX: You’re confusing me. Nolan Ryan.
BOBBY: He didn’t wear number seven, Alex.
ALEX: No, he did not, but you—
BOBBY: How did he make it onto this list?
ALEX: But— thank you. I’m so glad you asked, Bobby.
BOBBY: Just— that’s what I’m here for.
ALEX: He threw not one, not two, not three—
BOBBY: Wow. You went LeBron on me.
ALEX: —not four, not five, not six.
BOBBY: Not eight.
ALEX: Not eight, either. Or nine.
BOBBY: Bum, bum. He’s a bum.
ALEX: Seven no-hitters throughout his career over the course of—
BOBBY: Statistically significant amount of no-hitters.
ALEX: That is a large amount of— that is a large sum of—
BOBBY: That is more just complete games than like people who are making their debut now will have in their career.
ALEX: Just go off, king. That’s right. Let’s go.
BOBBY: Why doesn’t Kevin Burkhardt have energy for the fucking starting pitchers who can’t make it past the fifth?
ALEX: It’s true.
BOBBY: Hmm?
ALEX: Uh-hmm. You want the strikeouts to go down? Stop going max effort.
BOBBY: Exactly.
ALEX: No. Stop— no. Hang on. Seven—
BOBBY: Actually, I have a couple more clips from The Deal that I was going to play.
ALEX: Okay. That’s good. That’s fine. I think halfway through this episode, you should just swap in The Deal and see if anyone notices.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: They won’t, because everybody will be tuned out.
ALEX: Seven no-hitters, yeah. That’s a— that’s a lot. He— he do no-hitters over— across three decades with his first coming in 1973 the California Angels.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: The final one coming with the Texas Rangers in 1991 at age 44, 44, so if you add those together, it’s—
BOBBY: You get close.
ALEX: You get pretty darn close.
BOBBY: You get 1912’s version of seven, because they played game eight instead of game seven. I’ve always wanted to be a conspiracy theorist, and this might be the closest that we go to.
ALEX: This is— this is [47:40] yeah.
BOBBY: You’re just like ignoring all logic. Three decades, he had no-hitters, in three separate decades. This is like, how— this is, like, that fact about how Usher has a number one hit in four straight decades or something like that.
ALEX: Yeah, that’s—
BOBBY: Do you know that fact?
ALEX: I did not, actually, know that fact.
BOBBY: I’m trying to find it [48:00]
ALEX: And it’s kind of altering my perception of reality right now. I feel like I just fell out of the [48:07]
BOBBY: The ’90s, 2000s, 2010s, and 2020s.
ALEX: I— I— I guess that tracks.
BOBBY: Okay. I didn’t mean to make this about Usher. Let’s go back to Nolan Ryan.
ALEX: It’s— really? That’s where you’re drawing the line?
BOBBY: Do you want to sing a little bit of Yeah by Usher for us?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You do the Lil’ John part.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: And I’ll do the Usher part.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You see, you’re not putting your back into it.
ALEX: I know. Nolan Ryan at the seventh no-hitter also upstages Ricky Henderson, who, on the same day, breaks the all-time steals record. Fun fact, I don’t have anything more to say about that, and it doesn’t relate to the number seven.
BOBBY: What number did Ricky wear?
ALEX: 24.
BOBBY: Not divi— not divisible by seven, unfortunately. That’s kind of bullshit. The all-time steals record is way cooler than a— something that he already did six times in his career.
ALEX: Yes, I 100% agree.
BOBBY: I’m mad now.
ALEX: Reggie Jackson once said of Nolan Ryan, “Every hitter likes fastballs just like everybody likes ice cream, but you don’t like it when someone’s stuffing it into you by the gallon. And that’s how you feel when Ryan’s throwing balls to you— balls by you.” And I think that’s relatable.
BOBBY: Who’s the number one pitcher that you would want to go back and watch one of their starts from behind home plate?
ALEX: From behind home plate?
BOBBY: Yeah. As the umpire, you have to call the game.
ALEX: Right. Okay.
BOBBY: You do get to wear the arm patch, though, in solidarity with the rest of the Umpires Union.
ALEX: Thank God, thank God. Ryan is up there, 100%.
BOBBY: Well, that’s why I asked.
ALEX: I mean, frankly, I think sit— like sitting directly behind home plate is like almost makes me want to go watch, like, a Tim Wakefield start which I—
BOBBY: Oh, really interesting answer.
ALEX: —which would be—
BOBBY: What number was he? My goal is that anytime this podcast gets any momentum, I derail it immediately.
ALEX: You’re doing an excellent job at that.
BOBBY: You’re never gonna believe what number he was.
ALEX: Nuh-uh. 41.
BOBBY: 49.
ALEX: Wow. Okay.
BOBBY: Seven squared.
[laughter]
ALEX: I can’t do this. I can’t do it, I’m sorry.
BOBBY: Come on. We’re here all week.
ALEX: All right.
BOBBY: Great answer. I love that. Really off the beaten path answer.
ALEX: Yeah. I don’t know. If you have that vantage point, I’m like, “I want to see someone who makes the ball do stupid shit.”
BOBBY: Yeah. I mean, he’s probably, like, the number one most unique-looking pitch—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —delivery.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I think I would still probably go Bob Gibson.
ALEX: Yeah. I mean, that would be incredible.
BOBBY: Imagine sitting be— behind a plate and watching that. Really slider, but it was kind of like a curveball, I guess.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: But they didn’t really call it a slider back then.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Do you think that was a sweeper? So we have the fucking inverted motion, or whatever the fuck, the Y-axis.
ALEX: I don’t even think the Y-axis was invented yet.
BOBBY: I don’t know [51:03] oh, man, I think they had the Y-axis. They were doing astrophysics. I don’t know why one of my, like, top five baseball vendettas is sweepers. It’s a bit. It’s a bit, everyone. I admire all of your axes, and all of your rotations.
ALEX: Planes. You love all the planes.
BOBBY: I mean, I was a huge physics guy myself.
ALEX: Anything else on Nolan Ryan?
BOBBY: No. I’m still riding off the high of Tim Wakefield wearing number 49.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That brings us to our fifth number seven, which, in this construction is kind of like the seventh inning of a nine-inning game, fifth out of seven. And that means that the fifth number seven on the Tipping Pitches seven for the seventh anniversary, seven sevens. Is the seventh-inning stretch something to do a little take me up to the ball game? Would you like to sing?
ALEX: Are we— well, we’re doing God Bless America first, right?
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: I actually wanted to talk about that.
ALEX: Yeah?
BOBBY: So—
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: So— okay. The seventh inning stretch, everyone knows what the seventh inning stretch is. How many people know the history of the seventh inning stretch? Do you know the history of the seventh inning stretch?
ALEX: I— I know, like, the vague lore around it, but I feel like maybe you’ve done some more research on this, and can give me real— the real story.
BOBBY: A popular story for the origin of the seventh inning stretch, this comes from the seventh inning stretch Wikipedia page, of course, is that on April 14th, numeral of 7, 1910, on opening day, six-foot-two inch, 350-pound president, William Howard Taft was sore from prolonged sitting at a game between the Washington Senators and the Philadelphia Athletics, and stood up to stretch, causing the crowd to feel obligated to join their president in his gestures. This story is set at a far later date than the others, the others being the first times that it appeared in, like, news coverage, you know, of like a team doing some sort of interlude—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —in the seventh inning. So, like, it existed before this, but many people feel that this was the thing that popularized it, because he gave his, quote-unquote, “presidential seal of approval” to the long-standing tradition. So he gave the national— he gave national publicity to the seventh inning stretch.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: To that, I say we used to be a country.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Where presidents cared about stuff like this.
ALEX: We—
BOBBY: Now, it’s all about photo ops.
ALEX: That is a popular story, and that’s the story I’m familiar with, although it does seem that it— right, to your point may date back much earlier than that, and— and— and the stretch element of it—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —was maybe came at a later date, but— but— but, yeah, it used to be called the lucky seventh.
BOBBY: Yes. And I believe that is why it landed on the seventh.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Because there is documentation of teams doing stuff like this as early as the second inning, and then it just normalized to the seventh, because seven is a lucky number, and baseball fans are very superstitious group.
ALEX: Also just kind of weird to do something in a second inning. I’m kind of like, I—
BOBBY: Dodgers fans aren’t even there.
ALEX: Dodgers fans [54:13]
[laughter]
BOBBY: Man, neither of Yankees fans are still standing in the line outside. Oh, man. That was good. In Japan, they still call it the lucky seven, and they have a whole different tradition than we have here, where—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —at the end of the sixth, they play one team’s fight song, and then in between the top of the seventh and the bottom of the seventh, they do the other team’s fight song. In Minor League, double headers, which will come up later, they have a fifth inning stretch to be substituted. Interesting.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: Keep that in mind.
ALEX: Not— not unlike what we’re doing, in fact, right— at this very moment.
BOBBY: Most ballparks in professional baseball mark at this point of the game by playing the crowd sing along song Take Me Out to the Ball Game. If a game goes into a fifth extra inning, a similar 14th inning stretch is celebrated, as well as, in theory, a possible 21st inning stretch, or even a 28th inning stretch. They’ve taken that away from us, though. Rob’s taken that away from us. Have you ever been in a game with a 14th inning stretch?
ALEX: I have not.
BOBBY: I don’t think I have, either. I was trying to think about this. I think the latest— the longest game I’ve ever been to is probably like 11.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Pretty rare to get a game to go 14 innings, even before the rule changes. And now, it never goes 14 innings.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: It’s pretty much not possible.
ALEX: Yeah. Did you know— so— so Take Me Out to the Ball Game, obviously played in the seventh inning stretch. The composers of Take Me Out to the Ball Game had never actually been to a baseball game when they wrote that song, which now makes me think they were actually, literally saying, “Please take me out to the ball— I really want to go to the ball game. Can you please take me out there?”
BOBBY: Moving along, team traditions when it comes to the seventh inning stretch. Many teams will play a local tradition song, either before or after Take Me Out to the Ball Game. Since 1975, the Baltimore Orioles have often played the raucous John Denver song Thank God I’m a Country Boy at the conclusion of Take Me Out to the Ball Game. During the bridge of the song in which Denver holds a long note, fans yell, “Oh,” since the name Orioles is often shortened to O’s. The Atlanta Braves also play this song after Take Me Out to the Ball Game. Stolen Valor.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: The Mets pay— the played the Lou Monte tune, Lazy Mary, as you know.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: When the Cardinals were owned by Anheuser-Busch, Busch Memorial Stadium organist Ernie Hays played Here Comes The King, a commonly recognized jingle for Budweiser Beer during the stretch. We’re using it for ads now. The Toronto Blue Jays take the term seventh inning stretch literally, as Health Canada officials lead fans at the Rogers Centre in stretching exercises while the club song OK Blue Jays plays before Take Me Out to the Ball Game. The Texas Rangers initially played only Cotton Eye Joe during the seventh inning stretch. When the team moved to their new facility in 1994, the ballpark in Arlington, Take Me Out to the Ball Game was added. So they were just going straight Cotton Eye Joe, no— no Take Me Out to the Ball Game. Kind of love it.
ALEX: Incredible move.
BOBBY: Kind of love it. One of the only admirable things that that franchise has ever done. And you know who probably made that change?
ALEX: Who?
BOBBY: Fucking George W. Bush, dawg, 1994. Wasn’t he the owner then?
ALEX: I think so.
BOBBY: Amazing.
ALEX: Maybe. I don’t know.
BOBBY: Now, they do— now, they do Take Me Out to the Ball Game and then instrumental version of Cotton Eye Joe. And then, of course, Alex—
ALEX: How are you gonna do an instrumental version of Cotton Eye Joe? But you don’t get the storytelling of the song then? Or do they— the fans sing it?
BOBBY: Probably. I mean, we all know the lyrics to Cotton Eye Joe.
ALEX: I mean, yeah.
BOBBY: Sing it for us.
ALEX: Bida, biba. It’s a lot of that, right?
BOBBY: Yeah. Where did you come from? Where did you go?
ALEX: Where did you go?
BOBBY: See, here’s a little fun fact for you, or a little— a little— a little tips and tricks, Cotton Eye Joe is a great dance to do if you’re not a very good dancer. It’s just an easy one. You know, two steps forward, two steps back, step forward, step back, spin around.
ALEX: Can you show me real quick?
BOBBY: I did it just then.
ALEX: You’re— right. Yeah.
BOBBY: The listener didn’t know, but I did it just then. And Cotton Eye Joe, the song is in four-four. So if you ever just don’t know how to dance to a song and you know that it’s in four-four, or which most songs are in four-four, honestly. Just do the Cotton Eye Joe.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And you’re on the beat. That’s a little tip for all my bad dancers out there.
ALEX: To be honest, I didn’t know that there was an associated dance.
BOBBY: What?
ALEX: Yeah,
BOBBY: You don’t know the Cotton Eye Joe dance?
ALEX: Well, I do now, that you just did it for me.
BOBBY: Are you fucking with me right now?
ALEX: No, I’m just— I— I— the song means so much to me that I just—
BOBBY: Have you— you just say you’ve never been to a bar mitzvah, then? You never been to a school dance?
ALEX: I— sure, yes, I have.
BOBBY: I’m— I’m offended by this.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: That you don’t know the Cotton— this is like when you didn’t know what a hayride was.
ALEX: I— are you sense like a common theme, though?
BOBBY: Oh, my God. Man. Okay. Well, there’s a— they list every single song that teams play on here. Many of the rest of them are not that interesting, except, of course, that the Seattle Mariners play Can’t Hold Us by Macklemore and the Nationals play Take On Me, which is a great choice. The Twins play Little Red Corvette by Prince, due to the tradition that rookies and newly traded players have to know the lyrics to that song.
ALEX: That’s kind of sick. I didn’t know that.
BOBBY: I didn’t know about this. And then, of course, Alex, the New York Yankees play Take Me Out to the Ball Game during the seventh inning stretch, but it is preceded by none other than God Bless America ever since the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Center—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You think what about this tradition?
ALEX: I think it’s a shame that all other 29 teams stopped doing it, because— because immediately afterwards, I believe Bud Selig, like, requested, like said, “All right. We’re— everyone’s doing this right now.”
BOBBY: Yeah, it was probably really a chill request.
ALEX: Really chill request. And then most of the teams were just like, “Can we stop? Do we— do we have to—”
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: “—every time?”
BOBBY: Do you think they should play it between every inning?
ALEX: I think they should do a line between every inning, you know. You got God bless America first, the [1:00:47] second, Land That I love.
BOBBY: Stand beside me.
ALEX: Stand— stand beside her.
BOBBY: Stand beside her. Stand beside me as well. And guide her—
ALEX: Through—
BOBBY: So we’re up to the fourth inning.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Through the night.
ALEX: I think we’re gonna run out of innings.
BOBBY: With the light from—
ALEX: From above.
BOBBY: With the light from above can be one.
ALEX: Yeah. From the mountains to the prairies.
BOBBY: Yeah, we gotta— we gotta combine.
ALEX: All right. All right. All right. All right. [1:01:12]
BOBBY: We maybe can use the half— the half innings. Let’s go back to the beginning.
[laughter]
ALEX: Oh, wait—
BOBBY: In between the first— after the top of the first, we play the first line. And then after the bottom of the first, we play the second line, and then so on. Then we have 10—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —18 opportunities.
ALEX: Okay. We’re gonna work on this a little bit more. I did not realize how many lyrics we were going to be reading on this show.
BOBBY: See, what I’ve always— what has always offended me about God Bless America, it’s not the blind patriotism. It’s not the boringness of the song, really. It’s like— it’s fine. Our national anthem is boring, too. Like, plenty of countries have boring patriotic songs.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: What has offended me is we have This Land Is Your Land fucking sitting right there. It’s right there. And that is a tune.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That’s a tune.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And it’s actually sick, if you think about the lyrics.
ALEX: I mean, yeah, but that’s why they don’t play it, right? Like, you think we’re— you think the New York Yankees are playing a satirical song about—
BOBBY: From the Redwood Forest, bro, to the Gulf Stream waters.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: This land was made for you and me.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Mostly me.
BOBBY: Stand beside me and guide me. Do you know the— the sing along to Sweet Caroline doesn’t happen in the seventh inning stretch? Happens in the eighth.
ALEX: Interesting. I kind of like that.
BOBBY: I feel like I’ve been kind of lied to. Not that anyone ever told me it did happen in the seventh inning stretch.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: But like I was under the impression of— I was lied to by myself, by my own brain. All right, let’s move on.
ALEX: Seventh inning stretch, good— good tradition. One of like—
BOBBY: It’s one of the best.
ALEX: One of the traditions.
BOBBY: I love—
ALEX: Of all time.
BOBBY: I am so cynical about most things, but I stand up and sing Take Me Out to the Ball Game at every baseball game I go to.
ALEX: Every single game. Every single—
BOBBY: Like, we got to hold on to some traditions.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know?
ALEX: This— this— these cold hearts of ours can be thawed.
BOBBY: I think we should start going to— we should get Yankee season tickets, and when they sing God Bless America, we should sing as loud as we can This Land Is Your Land.
ALEX: Hey, I think we should just sing Take Me Out to the Ball Game.
BOBBY: How do you feel about teams that play Take Me Out to the Ball Game twice? They don’t have another song that they play after it. They just play Take Me Out to the Ball Game two times in a row.
ALEX: Are there teams that do that?
BOBBY: Yeah, the Dodgers.
ALEX: That’s crazy. What?
BOBBY: Spoken like the guy who’s not a Dodgers fan.
ALEX: I—
BOBBY: Like you should be, like I am.
ALEX: Is it just in case any fans who haven’t gotten to the game yet where— missed the first one? The beat that bit into the ground.
BOBBY: No, it’s so that after the first one, fans can leave, and then everyone else who sticks around gets a second chance at it.
ALEX: That’s good. I love you, Dodgers fans.
BOBBY: It’s actually the worst critique of Dodgers fans, like it’s not their fault.
ALEX: It— I know, I know, I know, I know.
BOBBY: Most of the time. Sometimes it is their fault, but most of the time, it’s not their fault. Okay. We’re on to the sixth of seven.
ALEX: Oh. Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Six of seven of the seventh for the seventh anniversary. We’re six of seven. We’re one away from seven of seven. We’re six of seven.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Would you like to do the sixth seven that we have?
ALEX: I don’t know. Sure. Let’s do it. The sixth seven on our list of seven.
BOBBY: Sevens.
ALEX: Sevens for the seventh anniversary of Tipping Sevens.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Seven—
BOBBY: Seventh Pitches. Tipping Sevens is good. I like that. That’s pretty good.
ALEX: Seven Negro Leagues— thank you. Thank you. Seven Negro Leagues.
BOBBY: Seven total Negro Leagues.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Now, the— these are like the seven, sort of recognized, right?
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: When Major League Baseball, a few years ago announced, and then earlier this year, finalized the inclusion of the— the elevation.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
ALEX: These were the seven leagues—
BOBBY: Crazy that they said that.
ALEX: Yes. Uh-hmm. These were the seven lea— now, that is not to say that we’re not other—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: —baseball leagues for black players, but— right. It stems from this, quote-unquote, “gentleman’s agreement” that exists between baseball teams at— at that point in the 19th century, to segregate the leagues, to say black players will— will not be playing in— what was then referred to as organized baseball, right? And obviously, that does not change— that doesn’t change on a broad scale, obviously, until 1946 with Jackie Robinson. Although that doesn’t mean that there were not black players in, I guess, professional but— or— or Major League Baseball, right?
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: You have Moses Fleetwood Walker, who is largely regarded as the first black player, first African-American player, to play in Major League Baseball, or at least, the first player who was open about his heritage. He is a— a— he has a really fascinating story, and I— this episode is not about Moses Fleetwood Walker, although I think maybe that’s a— that’s a story that we should dive into, because he has a really interesting, like, post-baseball playing career.
BOBBY: Guess what his birthday was?
ALEX: What?
BOBBY: October 7th, 1856.
ALEX: Oh. Oh, come on.
BOBBY: Come on. There are sevens everywhere with folks with eyes to see them.
ALEX: That’s right, that’s right. And I mean, we— we’ve talked about the Negro Leagues and their— their rich history on this podcast before, but, you know, they grow to have their own life independent of Major League Baseball.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: Right? They really thrive. And then, again, some of— some of the game’s best players, those who did play in Major League Baseball and who didn’t, at one point, played in the Negro Leagues. Guys like Josh Gibson, again, Jackie Robinson, like Satchel Paige.
BOBBY: Larry Doby.
ALEX: Larry Doby. You have some really remarkable play— and then, of course, when they decide to integrate Major League Baseball, the Negro Leagues are dishonorably decimated because they just siphon away all— all of the best talent, right? So they— you know, it is a—
BOBBY: It’s a financial co-opting as much it is— as it is a dereliction of duty in—
ALEX: Yes. Right.
BOBBY: —making amends for the racism that they instituted 50 years earlier.
ALEX: Right. They said, “Oh, these guys are pretty good. People really like to watch them. We should— we should have them under our umbrella.”
BOBBY: “We should abandon all of our evil morals—”
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: “—and just put those in the closet long enough to make money off of these players.”
ALEX: We have the Negro National League, the— the first Negro National League, the— the Eastern Colored League, the American Negro League, the East-West League, the Negro Southern League, the Negro National League II, the Negro American League. And— and these leagues span roughly from like 1920 to 1950—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: —essentially. After 1950, they— you know, some of them kind of become more like barnstorming leagues, you know, sort of exhibitions. And, right, as we mentioned that the— the— the most talented players make their move to Major League Baseball.
BOBBY: One thing that I’ve always found really fascinating when thinking and talking about the Negro Leagues, but honestly, really just baseball from this time period, is the decentralization of it, and how far we’ve moved away from that as a culture in all things, but certainly in sports and certainly within baseball. We have two leagues now, but really we have one baseball, and they’ve made it very clear that that is their intention to keep pushing things in that direction. But the decentralization of the Negro Leagues and of the different professional leagues for white baseball players at the time too, even though there was a large acknowledgement that, you know, the leagues that we have come to know, the American League and the National League, were the ones that started to stand out there, started to rise above the pack in terms of competition, in terms of revenue generation, and in terms of marketability, in terms of the size of the teams and the locations of the teams in those cities. I just— it’s— kind of blows my mind to think about the idea that there were seven professional leagues. And I know that these were not all concurrent. Like, there’s two Negro National Leagues.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Clearly, they were not all happening at the same time.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: But, like, imagine if there were seven professional baseball leagues right now, or just like within the last 20 years, imagine how different things could be in those leagues.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Feels very— we feel in a time period where things are so centralized that they’re very resistant to change, that is not instituted from on high.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And that is one of the most fascinating things in reading about the Negro Leagues, and listening to people talk about the Negro Leagues, and listening to historians talk about it, is just how different it was, how— how Baseball— baseball is a foundation. You can build a lot on top of baseball. Baseball is not just this one static image that we have now, that we are sold now very often.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: It’s a lot of things, and it’s a lot of different types of players. And it’s— you know, I think, like, Clinton talked about— when we— when we talked about that— the phrasing of elevation, it’s valid, and it always was valid, and it always is going to be.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And it’s not valid for the reasons that MLB would like you to believe now, because, like, they’ve called together the statistics and granted them their approval. It’s valid because it’s like it embodied the spirit of baseball in the context of American identity and culture.
ALEX: Also just want to say, far more creative names, team names.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: You have like the Black Barons, the— the Elite Giants.
BOBBY: I always love the Newark Eagles.
ALEX: Newark Eagles. I always love the— the Monarchs.
BOBBY: Yeah. I have a Kansas City Monarchs jersey.
ALEX: I— I—
BOBBY: Purchased from the [1:11:53] jersey, I guess.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: Not a full-on jersey.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Damn sure, team jersey strikes again. From the Negro League’s baseball museum, which I’ve still never been to. I bought it online. We should make a trip there.
ALEX: We should make that happen.
BOBBY: Tipping Pitches meetup at a Royals game next year.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: You’ve never been to Kauffman, right?
ALEX: I know, I’ve never been.
BOBBY: This might be your last chance. All right. Should we—
ALEX: Oh, okay.
BOBBY: —move on to number seven of the sevens, seventh seven?
ALEX: Let’s— let’s run it out. Let’s run it out.
BOBBY: Seven out of seven.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Seven and seven. Sevens— seventh of the seven.
ALEX: Stop. Why are you— why are you doing this to me and the listeners?
BOBBY: Seventh anniversary for the Tipping Pitches seven. We saved the worst for last.
ALEX: Intentionally.
BOBBY: Yo, you remember when they did seven-inning double headers Major League Baseball games? They still do it in Minor League games.
ALEX: I know, which like— sure, that’s fine. Whatever. I care less about that, but—
BOBBY: Actually, no. It’s actually not fine, but I’m not going to get up in arms about it on a daily basis.
ALEX: Right. I mean, I— that is—
BOBBY: How old are we, 14? We need to play seven-inning game, seven innings?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Seven? Seven? Why did they do this?
ALEX: I mean, the— the actual re— right, I mean, it was like, covid, right? And they were trying to squeeze a lot of games in—
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: —in a— in a shortened season.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I’ve just— you asked why they did it.
BOBBY: So it was just— so the stated logic of the time was like, “We’re gonna have way more double headers because we’re gonna have a lot more cancelation— cancelations.”
ALEX: I guess.
BOBBY: And that is taxing on people to play 14 innings in one— rather to play 18 innings in one day.
ALEX: To play 18 innings.
BOBBY: So we’re gonna play 14.
ALEX: We’ll play 14.
BOBBY: What’s the science behind that, those other four innings?
ALEX: Again, this was—
BOBBY: I guess, for, like, the pitchers, mostly?
ALEX: Right. I don’t know. They were— this is obviously when Rob Manfred is just in his bag. He is just—
BOBBY: No, no, no. This is when Rob Manfred is like— what was he cooking? He’s cooking nothing.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: He was that version of the meme. What is he up to? He’s cooking nothing. That was weird that they did that.
ALEX: It was— it was weird.
BOBBY: It was unserious.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: It was— I mean, the whole season was really uncanny, and I actually was watching—
ALEX: What you’re saying is Mickey Mouse World Series?
BOBBY: I’m not saying that. It’s just a different thing. It’s still—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —a World Series, but it’s a different World Series.
ALEX: Yeah. Well, like, it was— I mean, again, that whole season, you can’t really compare with any other baseball— you literally cannot compare it to any other baseball season.
BOBBY: I was watching a highlight of a Yankees walk-off sac fly from the 2020 season. So, like, legitimately, like, the most boring in life this thing. It was a DJ LeMahieu walk-off sac fly to center field, in which I believe Gleyber Torres was the person who scored, and Michael Kay was calling it. And there were no fans in the stands, of course, because this was 2020. And the comment on the video, the person that shared it, was like, “Is this the most sauceless moment in Yankees history?” Or, like, the most sauceless walk-off in baseball history or something like that. Because he catches the— the sac fly, doesn’t make an effort to throw it home, and the runner just walks in from third. And Michael Kay is like, “And there’s a sac fly. And the Yankees are gonna win the game.” And that’s it. And I’m like— I— I almost wanted to get mad at Michael Kay but, like, I can’t even, because he was just sitting in his house.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Calling this game. And, like, what were we doing? Why were we doing that? If we were— why were we playing baseball that year?
ALEX: I— well, that’s a great question. You want to open that can of worms?
BOBBY: Not really.
ALEX: Can I just say? The league was really doing— was really doing some stuff in 1912, because prior to the pandemic season— seasons—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: —right? You would have seven-inning double headers in college and in the— the Minors, but that had not existed in— in Major League Baseball. Except for in 1912, where it was not— they— there was a double header between the Indians and between— at that point, the Indians and the Red Sox.
BOBBY: You know, I just looked up when World War I started, I was going to try and make it like they were doing this because the world was haywire because of World War I, but didn’t start ’till 1914. [1:16:31]
ALEX: Anyway, they played a doubleheader, the first game was five innings and the second game was six innings. Sure.
BOBBY: Adds up to 11. Goodbye me. If they had played a third game, do you think they would have played seven innings?
ALEX: They probably would have played seven, yeah. The— the rare triple header.
BOBBY: I would go to a triple header.
ALEX: Would you go to a— a nine-inning triple header?
BOBBY: Sure, especially with the pitch clock now.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: See, Dodgers fans in a nine-inning triple header don’t have to show up until inning 20.
ALEX: Oh.
BOBBY: I’m glad we make ourselves laugh.
ALEX: Yeah. At the very least. All right. I mean, anything else on seven-inning double headers?
BOBBY: No. Let’s just hope I never have to see it again.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: For a number of reasons. If I do have to see one, it’s a bad sign. Do you want to do honorable mentions?
ALEX: Let’s run through some honorable mentions.
BOBBY: Okay. Honorable mentions, let’s just popcorn these.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: My first honorable mention, and truly, this sounds insane now that we’re at the end of this episode, and I wrote this down at the beginning. The David Fincher film Seven.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: 1995 serial killer thriller, directed by David Fincher, written by David Fincher and Andrew Kevin Walker. Made famous for a number of reasons, but most notably the incredible line read of, “What’s in the box?”
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Who read that line?
BOBBY: I’m so glad you asked that, because it was, of course, none other than Brad Pitt, who is in Moneyball.
ALEX: Moneyball.
BOBBY: I wanted to do—
ALEX: Incredible. I feel like you’re Charlie in— in It’s Always Sunny.
BOBBY: I wanted to do this one first so you can really see that like truly, these are honorable mentions.
ALEX: These are—
BOBBY: These were not worthy of making into—
ALEX: Somewhat dishonorable mentions, to be quite honest.
BOBBY: Okay. What’s one from you?
ALEX: Here is my favorite one.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: You’re familiar with the artist, Taylor Swift.
BOBBY: Yeah. Honestly, right now, me and her are on a break.
ALEX: I know you— I know you are, and that’s okay.
BOBBY: It’s been a— it’s been a long [1:18:38]
ALEX: You guys need some space.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: It’s okay.
BOBBY: Yeah. Some blank space.
ALEX: Okay. She has a song on the 2020 album, Folklore.
BOBBY: Yeah. I was probably listening to this during seventh-inning double headers— seven-inning double headers.
ALEX: Maybe. The name of that song is called Seven, and in that song, once again, we’re back just reading lyrics, she says, “I think you should come live with me and we can be pirates.”
BOBBY: Being so— that’s what Paul Skenes says to Livvy Dunne.
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah. Uh-hmm. [1:19:16]
BOBBY: No one knows if she meant it as capital P or lowered case P, pirates.
ALEX: That is— that’s true.
BOBBY: There’s no way of proving that she’s not talking about the Pittsburgh Pirates. In fact, in fact, Alex, she has another lyric in a different song about an Eagles T-shirt hanging on the door.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And she’s talking about the football team.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So she has a history.
ALEX: She does have a history.
BOBBY: Of putting team names sneakily into her songs.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I like where your head’s at here. Okay. My next honorable mention, the 1977 World Series, notable in the seventh— in the Tipping Pitches seven for the seventh anniversary, because it’s ’77, stylized as apostrophe 77. Yankees over the Dodgers. This was the Steinbrenners’ first World Series as owners. Here’s something for you. It was played between October 11th and 18th. Bro, now, the World Series ends, like, November 5th.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: And there’s like two days off between every game.
ALEX: Yeah. Although not necessarily for long. There’s— I think they’re— they’re floating the rule changes that— or not rule changes, but—
BOBBY: Scheduling changes.
ALEX: —the scheduling changes that may accelerate the pace if— if [1:20:20]
BOBBY: I think they should play doubleheaders for every two games in the World Series.
ALEX: Seven-inning double headers, you mean?
BOBBY: Obviously. That’s the only kind. Reggie Jackson got his nickname Mr. October in the series. Dusty Baker was a player on the Dodgers, and this was famous Yankees manager Billy Martin’s only World Series win. He managed against Tommy Lasorda, another famous manager in this series.
ALEX: What a time.
BOBBY: I know.
ALEX: A lot packed in there.
BOBBY: And then the Steinbrenners never won another World Series after that.
ALEX: Nope. They were never heard from again.
BOBBY: Just one.
ALEX: They were never heard from again.
BOBBY: You don’t hear their names much these days.
ALEX: Uh-uh.
BOBBY: Okay. Let’s move on.
ALEX: And finally, it’s on us. That one’s on us. Let’s move on. Here we go. This one, maybe it’s a stretch, seventh commissioner of baseball, a, actually, Angelo Bartlett Giamatti.
BOBBY: What a name.
ALEX: What a name. Incredible name. Most notably, a member of the National Italian-American Sports Hall of Fame. I want to be very clear about that.
BOBBY: That’s fucking right, brother. Who else is in there? A bunch of really good guys.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Famous, really friendly guy, Joe DiMaggio.
ALEX: He was only Commissioner for 154 days.
BOBBY: That’s all you need.
ALEX: That’s— you know? And he made one of the most consequential decisions this sport has ever seen. Actually, an incredible legacy. Of course, I’m talking about Pete Rose and his banishing from the sport.
BOBBY: Nobody wants to work anymore. He’s getting that shit done in 154 days and it took Rob 10 years to do anything. And now, his legacy will ultimately end up being that he helped the A’s— he helped John Fisher hijack the A’s out of Oakland.
ALEX: Well, that, and being the father of—
BOBBY: —the virtual ballpark. Yeah, I know. So you were thinking, it’s what I was thinking. We’re all thinking it, I mean.
ALEX: Hmm. All right. Paul Giamatti, that’s quite literally his boy.
BOBBY: What a lord.
ALEX: Anyway, I mean, like—
BOBBY: Paul Giamatti needs to do a baseball movie.
ALEX: That. Ooh.
BOBBY: Come home, Paul.
ALEX: He—
BOBBY: Stop playing professors. It’s time.
ALEX: What I’ll say about Giamatti is like he was certainly a product of his time, and, like, I— I had a bit of a checkered history when he was president of Yale, presiding over, like, a— a strike of workers refusing to divest from apartheid South Africa. Tough.
BOBBY: Average president of Yale.
ALEX: Yeah, pretty much. Also loved baseball, so it’s hard to say if he was good or bad or not.
BOBBY: Yeah. I mean—
ALEX: Good or bad or not.
BOBBY: —chalk it up to the game.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Does have some of the most notable, like, writings on the sport.
BOBBY: Paul Giamatti was in the Hangover 2.
ALEX: If you say so.
BOBBY: I’m gonna fire that one up after you leave.
ALEX: That’s what I’m nursing right now.
BOBBY: Boo.
ALEX: He was elected Commissioner, because they were so impressed at how he took on the— the Workers Unions at Yale. So, you know, you can’t win them all.
BOBBY: You could win a couple more of them, though. Okay, let’s go to our final honorable— final honorable mention, and I won’t take full credit for this one. This one’s one that you threw onto the list. In the year 1990 and in the year 1991, there were seven no-hitters. Seven no-hitters. How many did we get last year? Wasn’t there like 10 a couple years ago?
ALEX: Were there?
BOBBY: I don’t know.
ALEX: One of those in 1991, by the way, is Nolan Ryan’s seventh no-hitter.
BOBBY: Wow. According to AI overview on Google, it says that the most in a single season was eight in 1884. Now, that’s probably wrong.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: But that’s what I’m working with, so that’s what—
ALEX: Yup.
BOBBY: —everyone at home is working with.
ALEX: And that’s what it is.
BOBBY: We’ll never know. Seven no-hitters. That’s a lot. That’s too many in a season.
ALEX: That is too many. You don’t need one a month.
BOBBY: What— how would your reaction be if we had seven perfect games in a season? Would you be like, “Stop the sport, start over.”?
ALEX: I do think we would have to reset something.
BOBBY: Okay. All right. Good. I’m glad. All right, that’s seven.
ALEX: And frankly, that’s what we’re trending towards with the pitchers these days.
BOBBY: And with players not caring about striking out.
ALEX: Exactly. Once again, slime.
BOBBY: All right. Hey—
ALEX: What a time.
BOBBY: —congratulations.
ALEX: Well done.
BOBBY: Seven years of doing the pod.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Who knows where we’ll be seven years from now? Who knows whether we’ll have a Major League Baseball? All I know is Rob Manfred won’t be the Commissioner of it.
ALEX: That’s for sure.
BOBBY: Paul Giamatti for Commissioner?
ALEX: Ooh. Ooh.
BOBBY: He needs to be in a baseball movie first. Before you do real baseball, you gotta do fake baseball.
ALEX: Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh.
BOBBY: Okay. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Hey, the voicemail number is 785-422-5881.
ALEX: I want to be very clear, we will be changing that for our anniversary next year. 885—
BOBBY: I want to get like a— like a 8— 1-800 number. Like 1-800-TIPS.
ALEX: Right. TIP— I mean, tipping, that’s seven digits. That’s—
BOBBY: Tipping is seven many digits?
ALEX: Oh, my God.
BOBBY: And how many digits is pitches?
ALEX: Five?
BOBBY: Fuck.
ALEX: What—
BOBBY: It’s six, actually.
ALEX: [1:25:54] yeah.
BOBBY: No, it’s not. It’s seven. How many digits is pitches?
ALEX: Oh, my God. Wow. Wait [1:25:59] this is—
BOBBY: It’s seven, tipping seven, pitches seven.
ALEX: It doesn’t feel— I just want to say pitches doesn’t feel like a seven-character word.
BOBBY: Yeah, they snuck a T in there and a C, and then it’s like—
ALEX: Yeah. Well, they needed, I feel, like at least one of those.
BOBBY: They didn’t need both.
ALEX: All right. This is remarkable stuff. Thank you for sticking around if, in fact, you did.
BOBBY: A quick note on the scheduling over the next week or two, we will have a Patreon episode in two days, and then we will have a normal episode next Monday. If you’re listening to this, and you are in the Chicago area, and you did not sign up for the Tipping Pitches meetup, please email us at tippingpitchespod@gmail.com, and you would like to come. I mean, if you’re in the Chicago area, you’re not obligated to come, but if you would like to come, email us and we can see if we can figure out a way to get you a ticket to that. That is Saturday, August 17th at 1:20pm against the Toronto Blue Jays, 1:20pm Central Time. And I guess that’s it. Seventh anniversary, seven. I vow— I solemnly vow to not use the number seven on next week’s episode. No matter what, I will not say that word. I will not.
ALEX: Okay, good. If it comes up, I need you to cut it in post. Don’t replace it with anything, just cut it.
BOBBY: No, I think— that’s a good idea. I think that we should have shock collars, and if we say the number seven, buzz, buzz, buzz.
ALEX: Jazz Chisholm home run.
BOBBY: He’s not number seven, is he?
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: Okay. Well, just checking.
ALEX: So it doesn’t matter, I guess. Four WAR season incoming.
BOBBY: Talk to me when that actually happens. Thank you, everybody, for listening. We’ll be back on the Patreon feed in a couple days, and right here on the main feed in seven days’ time.
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello, everybody. I’m Alex Rodriguez. Tipping Pitches. Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most. Tipping Pitches. So, we’ll see you next week. See ya!
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