Bobby and Alex discuss a go-to phrase for ESPN reporter Jeff Passan. Then, they pepper around some thoughts about this year’s trade deadline so far, including Garret Crochet’s surprising demands, Jesse Winker’s heel reverse, and the “state of market value.” Finally, they share some more in-depth thoughts about the amendment to the CBA’s luxury tax provisions before Bobby hands Alex a breakfast related list to rank.
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Transcript
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and be able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitch and kind of help out so he wasn’t tipping his pitches. So tipping pitches we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand what tipping pitches all about? That’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, do you know what they tell you to do when you have a baseball podcast? They tell you, “Record your episode 36 hours before the MLB trade deadline.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And then release it 24 hours before the MLB trade deadline. That’s what they tell you to do. So that’s— that’s what we’re doing today. But I thought in honor of the trade deadline, I would prepare you a special cold open, because, you know, like—okay, you’re sitting around. You get a Jeff Passan push notification, right? And the tweet comes through.
ALEX: UH-hmm.
BOBBY: And you’re like, “Okay. What’s Jeff— what’s Jeff on today? Is he just talking about a macro trend in the standings? Is he just talking about, you know, what the Yankees did today? Or is this a trade?” Well, I received a push notification yesterday from Jeff Passan, that’s full trade per ESPN sources, Baltimore Orioles receive right-handed starter Zach Eflin. Tampa Bay Rays receive outfielder Matthew Etzel, right-handed pitcher Jackson Baumeister, and super utility man Mac Horvath.
ALEX: Three great prospects, I’ll just say.
BOBBY: Okay, sure.
ALEX: I’ve been following all of them for a really long time.
BOBBY: I’m sure you have. Super utility man Mac Horvath.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: That— that caught my attention.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Because I don’t know who that is. So how can you call him a super utility man if Is he a Major Leaguer? Is he a prospect?
ALEX: I— I don’t— I don’t actually know who any of these people are, to be very clear. My assumption is that he is a prospect who plays a range of different positions.
BOBBY: Right. So then that got me wondering, because I had been thinking, you know what is a word or a phrase that Jeff Passan uses a lot, super utility man? So, you know what I did? I searched for all the times that Jeff Passan has called people super utility man, and here’s the list of those players, Cavan Biggio, Esteury Ruiz, Chris Taylor, Mac Horvath, of course. Dylan Moore, Kike Hernandez on February 26th of this year. Kike Hernandez on July 25 of last year. And Whit Merrifield, those are the super utility men across baseball, or at least the ones who have been involved in transactions or notable eve— or events notable enough to be tweeted about by Jeff Passan.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Now, here’s— you may be asking yourself an obvious question, if those are the super utility men, then who are the utility men?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Well, I have the answer for you, dear listener. The utility men are Tyler Wade, Marwin Gonzalez, Tony Kemp, Brock Holt, Mark Mathias. You know Mark Matthias, right?
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: All his— all this great work. Ezequiel Duran, Brock Holt again, Josh Harrison, Jose Ramirez had progressed from a no name prospect to a super utility man, to an everyday player, to an MVP candidate, according to a Jeff Passan tweet. Josh VanMeter, Brandon Drury, Franklin Barreto, old friend, Wilmer Flores, old friend of mine, Garrett Hampson, and Brandon Lowe. Those are the utility men, but the super utility men are like Whit Merrifield past his prime, and Mac Horvath, the prospect, and Cavan Biggio, a guy that got DFA’d a week earlier.
ALEX: Hey, man, sorry, they know ball.
BOBBY: I just— we’re never gonna have Jeff Passan on the podcast, probably. Never say never, I suppose. He might come on.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Probably not. If he did, this would be the first question I would ask him, what makes them super utility men?
ALEX: What’s— what’s— what sets it apart? Yeah.
BOBBY: Right. Like, what is the Mendoza Line between utility and super utility?
ALEX: Right. Because I think of a guy like Tony Kemp or Brock Holt, I think was another regular— Brock Holt, regular utility guy, right? See, in my mind, I think of him as—
BOBBY: He was a utility guy twice.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: That feels like the second time he should have been a super utility man. You know who the number one utility man is— super utility man? Sorry. Put some respect on his name. It’s Ben Zobrist. He, like, kind of invented this phrase as far as I’m concerned.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: In the modern era.
ALEX: Yeah, I’m just— I’m— I’m at a loss a little bit, you know? I’m— I’m going to Baseball Reference pages, seeing what the designated positions are, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Whit Merrifield listed as a second baseman and outfielder.
BOBBY: I think that there has to—
ALEX: Doesn’t feel very super to me.
BOBBY: There has to be a combination of infield and outfield.
ALEX: Yes, I agree.
BOBBY: But you can’t be that good, because, like Kris Bryant, when he was on the Cubs, would not have— he— Passan wouldn’t have called him a super utility man.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He would have called him a star.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Or a superstar even. Who knows? What’s the line between those two things?
ALEX: I think—
BOBBY: Is there a war cut off between star and superstar?
ALEX: Oh, Jesus.
BOBBY: We’re introducing some great questions.
ALEX: You’re breaking my brain a little bit.
BOBBY: Ignore that. That’ll be for the Patreon. Back to utility man, you— because you can’t just play like— you can’t be flexible enough to play both middle and field positions and be called a super utility man, I don’t think.
ALEX: Right. I— I think that if you— there are natural pairings of positions, middle infield, corner infield. If you, like, play either of those, like, say, Jose Ramirez plays third and probably has played for— or like Rafael Devers—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —like first and third, that’s not a utility guy.
BOBBY: No. No.
ALEX: He’s also very good.
BOBBY: But if you’re— if you’re Jose Iglesias, yeah, he’s too good to be a utility guy. Utility man, by the way.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Super utility man. Jose Iglesias plays third and second for the Mets. Utility man.
ALEX: Super.
BOBBY: Utility man.
ALEX: Utility man. Yeah, he plays outfield.
BOBBY: Jeff— Jeff McNeil plays left, right, second for the Mets, super utility man, and he can’t hit this year, which makes it even better candidate to be a super utility man. He’s better than Cavan Biggio. He’s better than Esteury Ruiz.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: He’s better than 2023 Chris Taylor.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Although I think this tweet came from 2021 when Chris Taylor was still good.
ALEX: I was gonna say Chris Taylor, actually, is probably the best player on this list.
BOBBY: He’s like the— he— I think he took the torch from Ben Zobrist.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Yeah. And he’s even a Friedman guy too.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So this—
ALEX: See, I mean, this is only raising more credit— I really need to see, like, the WAR breakdown. Are there— do they tear themselves out? Is there— is there a set number of games that you have to hit at a position?
BOBBY: So many of these tweets come when— when Pa— Passan is breaking news, so I have to think that he’s not thinking that deeply about it. He’s not, like, consulting a WAR spreadsheet, being like, “Is this guy utility man or a super utility man?” Honestly, the best players are in the utility man list.
ALEX: Yes. There— yeah.
BOBBY: I guess— I don’t know. Some of the guys on the super utility man are riding off of their reputation. Like Kike Hernandez in 2023 and 2024.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: He’s no longer a super utility man. He can’t really hit, and he’s not good at playing shortstop.
ALEX: Well, I thought— wait, I thought— well, okay. Well, is that— so is that the bar? Is you have to be good at all of these positions, or is it just like you can play left in a pinch, even though you’re a second baseman?
BOBBY: Can’t anyone play left in a pinch?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Then we’re all super utility—
ALEX: [7:22] all playing left, right? Like—
BOBBY: Name someone who you would never put in left no matter what. You’d like call someone up for the Minors before doing it. Pete Alonso. Now, you go.
ALEX: No, I’d put him in left. I want to see how that goes.
BOBBY: Oh, that’d be fascinating. Joey Gallo, super utility man?
ALEX: Takes one to know one [7:37] hmm, see, I don’t associate utility with, like, power.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And maybe that’s incorrect of me, but—
BOBBY: Slugger.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Can you be a slugger and a utility man?
ALEX: Well, because I think that, like, a lot of utility men are a little speedier—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —right? Which affords them that flexibility to play a range of positions.
BOBBY: That’s one of their utilities.
ALEX: That’s one of their utilities, is speed. So— so what you’re saying is you don’t think that Jeff is making a distinction as he’s doing—
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: It’s— he’s just— he’s writing down a name and saying, “This guy is a super utility guy, because he’s— he plays a lot of positions. He’s really good.”
BOBBY: Yeah. But if we—
ALEX: [8:16] a utility guy, because I forgot to include the word super this time.
BOBBY: I bet if we broke this out into a Twitter breakout and tagged him in it, he would respond.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So we could— we could get the answer. It’s a matter of whether we want to.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Or do we want to just live in this nether region.
ALEX: You’ve piqued my interest doing analysis on dumb, meaningless shit.
BOBBY: Well, I’ll share this list with you, and you can put together—
ALEX: Please— please do.
BOBBY: —a WAR spreadsheet. Who’s another person you’ve never put in left no matter what, under any circumstances? Honestly, the first person that came to mind was Mark McGwire, and he, like, actually played the outfield.
ALEX: Oh, we’re doing, like, retired players too?
BOBBY: I mean, you can do whoever you want. It’s our podcast.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: All business today.
ALEX: Bartolo Colon.
BOBBY: Great one. Mike Piazza.
ALEX: Yeah. Paul Skenes— no, I— he could play left field.
BOBBY: That would be fun.
ALEX: That would be fun.
BOBBY: Can you imagine running on Paul Skenes? Third base coach is just like— has the stop sign up no matter what.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Well, if Jeff Passan is listening, please reach out. Let us know. What is the difference between super utility man and utility man? What does it take to be a utility ma— are we utility men, as podcasters? Are we super utility men? I don’t think so.
ALEX: I think we have very narrow skill set.
BOBBY: That leads us beautifully into the trade deadline, which we want to talk about a few different— I guess, kind of. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a good enough segue for me.
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It’s good.
BOBBY: Don’t laugh at my segues.
ALEX: No, I was—
[laughter]
BOBBY: We want to talk about a few different topics from the trade deadline— trade deadline. Obviously, a few trades have happened, a few big trades have happened. I think a couple are still to come. And we don’t know those trades quite yet, maybe we’ll get breaking news over the course of this podcast. So we’re gonna talk about that. We’re going to revisit a thing that we talked about in the Patreon feed a couple days ago, and that is the amendment to the collective bargaining agreement to be— to allow a little bit more flexibility about how the money that is collected via the luxury tax is redistributed to teams and why. And I believe you have point of order to raise about the bingo card, which I can’t wait to hear.
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah.
BOBBY: And then, of course, our ranking segment. But before we get to all of that great stuff, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I’m Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[theme]
BOBBY: Thank you to this week’s new patron, Rebecca. patreon.com/tipping pitches, three different tiers, gets you all types of different stuff. That top tier gets you access to biweekly bonus episodes in which we do one of our favorite segments, 3UP, 3DOWN, talking about three things that bring us joy in the baseball world, three things that take our joy away in the baseball world. Life is a balance.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: What— what was I talking about? It’s like a very Catholic idea. I was talking about that on the Patreon a few weeks ago. Like, for every sin, there has to be a salvation.
ALEX: I don’t know. We’ve— we’ve had a lot of Catholic talk over the last few weeks.
BOBBY: Just a window into my psyche.
ALEX: You just have so much Jordan Peterson on your timeline.
BOBBY: Is he Catholic? He strikes me as like Westboro Baptist. I think he is like [11:40] Catholic.
ALEX: I think those— Westboro Baptist is probably not intellectual enough for him.
BOBBY: I guess that’s true. There is an intellectualism in Catholicism. You gotta think really hard about some of that shit.
ALEX: Yeah, no, true.
BOBBY: A lot of it doesn’t even make sense. There’s a lot— one thing that’s consistent between intellectuals and Catholics is that there’s a lot of convincing yourself that you understand something—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —that’s a core tenant to the ideology.
ALEX: Yes, yeah.
BOBBY: Even though you definitely don’t. Anyway, patreon.com/tippingpitches.
ALEX: Yeah. More Catholicism [12:07]
BOBBY: Many patrons were at our Brooklyn Cyclones meetup yesterday, and many non-patrons, just many listeners. It was really great to meet up with everybody and hang out at a Cyclones game. Maimonides Park, Maimonides, we— we learn, we grow, we evolve, we learn how to pronounce things. I learned Maimonides was a very important Jewish thinker, and also relevant to the New York City medical community.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And that’s what happens at Tipping Pitches meetups, you learn very important facts like that, and then you go ride roller coasters afterwards. So that was a lot of fun. Thanks to everybody for coming out. It was a really great time. Tipping Pitches Chicago meetup less than a month away, August 17th. Please, please, please fill out the Google form that is in the description, because if you don’t fill it out within the next few days from the time that this podcast posts, we will not be able to account for you, and we will have to go back and add more tickets. So we’re really trying to get a solid headcount. So if you want to come, but only if you’re pretty confident that you will be able to come, please fill that out. Indicate how many tickets you would like, because we’re going to be doing kind of like one big group order and then figuring out how to redistribute the tickets later. Because Wrigley Field is like, “We don’t want to help you out.” I blame Tim Ricketts himself.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Tim Ricketts?
ALEX: Tim—
BOBBY: Tom Ricketts?
ALEX: Tom Ricketts, there you go.
BOBBY: All right. Well, I’m just gonna call him Tim to insult him, because he’s not helping us, so why should I help him? Pete is the other one, right?
ALEX: Pete, he’s the one who we’re— we’re hoping for a campaign finance.
BOBBY: So I’m gonna call him Pat, and I’m gonna call Tom Tim.
ALEX: Pat and Tim Ricketts.
BOBBY: Right. Exactly. You wanna talk about the trade deadline?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So we’re just gonna popcorn back and forth with a couple topics that each of us are interested in talking about, with regards to the trade deadline so far. I’ll kick us off. Mets traded for Jesse Winker—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —last night. I’m conflicted.
ALEX: Say more.
BOBBY: It’s always weird where your team— it sort of pokes a hole in the idea of, like, rivalries and villains, because Jesse Winker has been booed at Citi Field, like, the last three or four times he’s been there. I believe he had a walk-off and then he had, like, a walk-off game-ending catch, where he was taunting the fans. And also, like, he’s had a couple weird interactions with the fans while on the Nationals this year.
ALEX: With Nationals fans?
BOBBY: I— I don’t remember if it was with Nationals fans or with the opposing teams fans. But he’s been kind of like a heel, you know? And then the Mets just go and— that’s, like, their big trade.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: We’re just gonna go get the guy that, like, fans have been booing and disliking for the last year, year or two. I don’t know. I mean, I guess it’s exciting. I sort of missed the days when, like, big players moved at the deadline.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: And this is like a fine, good trade. I have something coming up later about this, but I figured out we could acknowledge that David Stearns is in buy mode. And this is buy mode for David Stearns.
ALEX: Yeah, this is a coup for him.
BOBBY: He is— he’s such a wonk, you know? He’s not gonna make anything that is outside of his little error bars. That’s not happening.
ALEX: You know, Jesse Winker does—
BOBBY: [15:24] that’s fine. He gets on base.
ALEX: He gets on base.
BOBBY: Yeah, I know. I know. Mets offense is kind of great.
ALEX: Yep. Just think about the Mets is they’re pretty— pretty good.
BOBBY: I don’t want to jinx it.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: Kind of like a bad vibe last few days. They took two off the Braves, right? But Kodai Senga in his return to the mound after his shoulder injury kept him out for more than half the season. He finally made his return. He was pitching very well. He looked very good. He looked like Kodai Senga. And he strained his calf/potentially tore his calf, trying to get out of the way of a pop pop-up in the infield to allow Pete Alonso to catch it. Initially, sort of looked like a cramp— there’s always a thing in sports when you see someone get injured and you’re like, “God, really—” the announcers are all like, “Could be a cramp.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: “Everybody, hang tight. Maybe it’s just a cramp.” Real testament to the power of cramps. They look like torn Achilles, but he will be out for the rest of the regular season, which— that was a bad vibe. Then they lose 4-0 to the Braves. And I don’t know, maybe the trade deadline can turn the vibes back to good. I think they’re playing like they should be.
ALEX: Yeah. I think they’ve got another big move coming, just saying.
BOBBY: Do you?
ALEX: Think they got one more in the chamber.
BOBBY: Are they in— are they— do you have a Mets trade in part of your trade deadline [16:49]
ALEX: I just— I just wrote down some random trade— being like with— with no real knowledge about the various positional needs of any team or available players.
BOBBY: That’s kind of a trade deadline preview that I’m looking for.
ALEX: No. I mean, they need a pitcher, right?
BOBBY: Yeah. Yeah, they do.
ALEX: Little— maybe a— maybe a Logan Gilbert action.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: Brett Baty , you know?
BOBBY: Baty for Logan Gilbert?
ALEX: Straight up. Dude, straight up. Who says no?
BOBBY: Yo, nobody does straight up trades anymore.
ALEX: I know. We— I love a challenge trade.
BOBBY: The Orioles and Phillies just did one, kind of, kind of. The— the main pieces of that trade was Seranthony Domínguez for Austin Hays.
ALEX: Hmm. Right, yeah.
BOBBY: Which is kind of like, “Here’s the thing that I don’t want anymore, for the thing that you don’t really want anymore, and we’ll see if it fixes both of our problems.”
ALEX: Are— I mean, like—
BOBBY: Do you think Austin Hays could be a utility man if he tries hard enough? Austin Hays at second?
ALEX: No, you want to talk religious, though. That’s—
BOBBY: Yeah, that’s tough. That Instagram post on Pride Night?
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: Boo.
ALEX: Boo.
BOBBY: Boo. All right, that’s my Jesse Winker take. Do you want to move on to your trade the deadline topic?
ALEX: Sure. I’ll just— I’ll just rattle off more trades.
BOBBY: Okay, great.
ALEX: No. Actually, what I do want to just mention is, like, meet the new Rays, same as the old Rays. Well—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —they’re shedding payroll again.
BOBBY: Let’s just all collectively agree to ignore the part where I predicted them to win the AL East this year.
ALEX: Okay. I forgot that happened, so I— you shouldn’t— you cut it out and it’s like it never happened.
BOBBY: No, no. I’m here about honesty and integrity.
ALEX: I— like, I understand this is their kind of MO at this point, and Erik Neander even came out and was kind of like, “You know, like, it’s— we have to retool, we—” when— I think he— he had a quote where he was like, “Yes. Objectively, we’re a worse team than we were, like, 24 hours ago, having traded away, you know, Zach Eflin and Randy Arozarena,” which is always something you want to be saying after you make trades.
BOBBY: And they just traded the— the— that reliever, the homophobic one.
ALEX: Oh, Jason Adam. Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah. I always want to say Jason Aldean. Not meant to slander Jason Aldean. It’s just that Jason A and then—
ALEX: And then—
BOBBY: —associating it with conservatism.
ALEX: Right. [19:15]
BOBBY: And country music and—
ALEX: I don’t know nothing about Jason Aldean, so—
BOBBY: I don’t either. And I was telling you yesterday that I don’t know the difference between Zach Bryan and Zach— what’s the other one?
ALEX: Well, there’s Zach Bryan and then there’s Zach Brown, and there’s Luke Bryan.
BOBBY: Okay. Come on. I mean, come on.
[laughter]
BOBBY: And then there’s Luke Combs.
ALEX: And then there’s Luke combs, yeah.
BOBBY: Which is which? I need, like, a political alignment chart for the country singers that have similar names.
ALEX: I don’t think I want to see that political alignment chart.
BOBBY: I don’t, either. They’re all just in the upper right quadrant.
ALEX: All this to say is, like, I— I understand that, like, this is how the Rays operate at this point, but like, it still doesn’t stop being a bit of a shock to the system when it’s like, “Oh, this professional baseball team with millions of dollars at its disposa— at its disposal, is once again trying to get payroll down for the next year, to retool.” And I just— I— I don’t know. When does it end? Is this just what the Rays are like for the time that—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —Stu Sternberg owns them?
BOBBY: Yes. This is a—
ALEX: Great. That’s amazing.
BOBBY: This is what I’ve been saying.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: For years.
ALEX: No, the— the Rays’ bullshit has always been bullshit, but I don’t know, I feel for Rays fans.
BOBBY: I do, too. Doesn’t it feel a little bit like the league has squashed their marginal advantage? The league’s caught up to some of the stuff that the Rays were able to do for cheap. This goes to my larger point about the trade deadline. I have two more topics about the trade deadline. One of them is Garrett Crochet’s comments, which maybe we can save for last.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And the other one is that “market value”, quote-unquote, whatever that meant, this is not a market. I mean, it’s a sort of market, but it’s a manipulated market. Market value has never been more homogenous and controlled by the league and the teams. What— what you get for a player from one team is basically what you’re going to get for that player from a different team, too.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: It’s just a matter of whether or not the results and the standings, and the fan bases’ desire, and the ownership’s willingness to spend happens to align for that personal year. It has nothing— there are very few front offices who are identifying archetypes of players that they want to go for, that they think are undervalued or overvalued. I feel like all the teams just want all the same stuff. They want relievers who miss bats and they want three true outcomes guys, right? That seems like all anyone is going for?
ALEX: And super utility men.
BOBBY: Not even.
ALEX: No, I mean, I think—
BOBBY: The super utility men are the throw-ins in the trades.
ALEX: I think you are right that this is the approach that a lot of teams are taking. I don’t know they all do it to the same successful ends. I still think that the Rays are probably better at, I don’t know—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —identifying young pitcher, you know? Like the—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —the Dodgers, again, are in a league of their own.
BOBBY: The Dodgers do this thing where they find guys who were good six years ago and they make them good again.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I don’t know how they do that.
ALEX: I don’t, either.
BOBBY: It’s really weird. It’s kind of upsetting being at a Dodgers game. It just feels very hard to go to another GM and be like, “I want this guy.” And he can be like, “Well, I also like that guy, you know? Why would I want to give you that guy?” There are very few variations in what people value, and so it feels like there are very few big swing trades that even can happen, you know? There can’t be a real, quote-unquote, “fleece,” you know? Like everybody responds to fleece to every trade, like the— whatever. That’s like a meme now on the internet. But there can’t really be a real fleece now unless one owner is like, “Just get the payroll away from me.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: “Please, get the salary away from me. We’ll get fleeced just to get off— get off salary. That’s fine. That’s when the value doesn’t align.” But for the rest of the time, if you have like-minded owners, which 24 owners are like-minded about how they want to spend and how much they want to invest in the team, you’re going to get a— a same for same trade. It’s just that one— one package is going to be three years away from the Majors, and the other package is going to be a reliever. That’s it. The trades are boring.
ALEX: Yeah. Well, and I think—
BOBBY: There’s no Yoenis Céspedes trade coming.
ALEX: No. And complicating factors, too, is the expansion of the playoffs means that more teams are, quote-unquote, “in it than ever,” right? More teams can—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —convince themselves that they have a wild card shot. And so I think there are fewer teams that are in, like, full-on sell mode, because for a lot of— the Pirates right now are, like, in soft buy mode, you know?
BOBBY: Meh.
ALEX: I mean, no, but like they’re not—
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: —selling. Like, they’re in a position—
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: —where they’re like, “Hey, we can actually build towards something.” So I do think all of these factors have meant that both this year and the last, I feel like a year or two, we’ve had a— we’ve had a much more depressed market—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —in terms of, like, blockbuster trades.
BOBBY: I mean, the Mets— the Mets made two
ALEX: At the— at the trade— at the trade deadline.
BOBBY: —two blockbuster trades last year. Both of them were for 40-year-old starting pitchers to Texas teams, and they paid the salary of all of them.
ALEX: Yeah. Trade deadline is in a weird spot.
BOBBY: I don’t know. This is my overall opinion about how the trade deadline has morphed over the time of us doing the show. These are boom and bust cycles. I’m fully aware of that. There will be a boom cycle for chips in the center of the table trades again. Just like there was five years ago, or six years ago, or seven years ago, or whatever. But right now, whether that’s a come— whether it’s the expansion of the playoffs, whether it’s that— there’s a lot of like-mindedness in the way that teams think about value, or whether that’s just the fact that teams are doing their work in the off season signing free agents. Like the teams who want to be in are doing their work in the off season signing free agents. Like, the Phillies, or the Dodgers, or the Mets or— or the Yankees or whoever. Like the Juan Soto trade that the Yankees made, just happened before the season. It would have been a blockbuster—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: If it had happened at any point in the season.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I just think it’s— we’re in a sleepy period for the trade deadline. I’m saying all this stuff and then, like, I don’t know, who even could get traded that’s— that interesting. That’s what I’m say— like, no— no one’s really—
ALEX: I know. I believe—
BOBBY: —even on the block.
ALEX: —even— even the bigger like— well, I think that— that is the general consensus too, right? Is, like, there— there’s not the caliber of star just this time around, right? There are no upcoming free agents who would, like, radically change your dynamic of a team, like a Juan Soto type player.
BOBBY: Pete Alonso. Alonso for Dylan Cease straight up.
ALEX: Well, it’s a lot of, like, dependable starters.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah.
ALEX: [26:20]
BOBBY: Pete— Pete not that dependable this year. No, he’s on tear, and the Mets are going to extend him, I hope. I don’t know. What’s your next topic? Wait, wait, before your next topic, “Breaking, the Chicago Cubs are acquiring third baseman Isaac Paredes in a trade with the Tampa Bay Rays, sources tell ESPN.” This is from Jeff Passan. This is such a weird one.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I mean, to your point about all— all the stuff we just said about the Rays.
ALEX: Like, this is the—
BOBBY: Plus one.
ALEX: This is their thing. They retool every two to three years.
BOBBY: Hey, bro, what are the Cubs doing?
ALEX: Dude.
BOBBY: Besides losing a lot of games, and I guess buying.
ALEX: They’re in fifth place.
BOBBY: They’re horrible.
ALEX: They are in the last place— wait, no, sorry, sorry. I’m sorry. They’re in fifth place and— oh, no, they are in last place. Wow. What?
BOBBY: Yeah, dude.
ALEX: Jesus.
BOBBY: It’s been brutal.
ALEX: I was like— I— I said that and was like, “No, I have to be misreading that. They must be in fifth place in the league.”
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: That’s not true.
BOBBY: They’re like 10 games under, right?
ALEX: It’s like six games under, yeah.
BOBBY: Expanded playoffs, bro. They could still do it.
ALEX: I mean, sure. Do— do we know who they gave up?
BOBBY: No. We don’t know who they give up. And also, does Paredes have team control left? Like, this could be—
ALEX: Yeah, he—
BOBBY: —a next year thing or you just don’t know?
ALEX: Yes, he does, because I think that he’s not a free agent until like 2028 or after 2027.
BOBBY: Goddamn.
ALEX: So, like, he’s—
BOBBY: Three years team control.
ALEX: You got some— you got some time—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —to work with him.
BOBBY: I don’t know who plays for the Cubs, really.
ALEX: I don’t really, either.
BOBBY: I kind of do, but what I mean by that is, like, I don’t know who’s gonna play for the Cubs, like, in 18 months.
ALEX: No. Like, Nico Hoerner.
BOBBY: I guess. Is Cody Bellinger— are they gonna trade Cody Bellinger away? The contract that they signed up to him makes it almost impossible to trade him.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: Because he has an opt out so, like, you don’t know whether he’s gonna be there, what his value is. Like— I don’t know. Really interesting move from their front office.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Okay. Anyway. I mean, we got some breaking news.
ALEX: We got some breaking news.
BOBBY: You asked for it. Ask and you shall receive. I asked for a large blockbuster starting pitcher trade to the New York Mets. Like Logan Gilbert.
BOBBY: Right. Why would— why would they get Logan Gilbert?
ALEX: I don’t know.
BOBBY: Why would the Mariners be giving up Logan Gilbert? Because they have a plethora of starting pitching?
ALEX: Yeah, they do. Who do you want, George Kirby?
BOBBY: What problem— what problem— well, I mean, sure. What problem does Brett Baty solve for them? They already have enough guys who can’t hit the ball.
[laughter]
BOBBY: You want to send Brett Baty who, like, could be an excellent third baseman with the right hitter— hitter development? You want to send that guy to the Mariners organization?
ALEX: Do I look like— what am I— I’m fucking Jeff Passan? What— what— give me a— give me a trade you think is gonna happen, huh?
BOBBY: I didn’t commit to doing that.
ALEX: You actually— last night, you were like, “We should just throw out some trades we think that’ll happen without any knowledge.”
BOBBY: I—
ALEX: All I’m saying is I came prepared with no knowledge in tow.
BOBBY: If I was going to tell you a trade that seems more fair, or that seems more like it will benefit both sides, the Mets should be sending back a starting pitching prospect instead, because the Mariners will actually be able to develop that player. Maybe just Christian Scott—
ALEX: Christian Scott, yeah.
BOBBY: —for Logan Gilbert, straight up. No, but Christ— Christian, Christian Scott’s good.
ALEX: How about Logan Webb?
BOBBY: I mean, that would be the biggest trade haul of all time. He has, like, six years left on his deal, right? Didn’t Logan Webb sign an extension?
ALEX: Yeah, he did. Yeah. Are there any other Logans you could go for?
BOBBY: Logan Paul?
ALEX: All right, fine. What do you want? You want Erick Fedde? Is that who you’re—
BOBBY: Fetty Wap.
ALEX: —gunning for? You want Cal Quantrill?
BOBBY: Kind of now I do, actually. Yeah.
ALEX: Exactly, yeah.
[laughter]
BOBBY: He’s kind of funny. No, no. Logan Gilbert would be good. I just don’t know why the Mariners would be selling.
ALEX: All right. We’ll see.
BOBBY: They would need— they would need, like, a majorly ready hitter to give up Logan Gilbert, I think, because that’s— you could get that for him.
ALEX: Yes. Pete Alonso.
BOBBY: Ooh. That’s kind of interesting.
ALEX: That is— it is actually not uninteresting.
BOBBY: That would be the true test, like if— if Pete— if Pete’s power goes to Seattle and die, like after what happened with Teoscar Hernández last year, after what’s happened with many hitters who just leave Seattle and flourish or come to Seattle and die on the vine.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Something— something fishy going on there? I mean, I know it’s a pitcher’s park, but come on.
ALEX: Well, okay. Mets— Mets need a pitcher, right? I feel like if they’re gonna make another big move—
BOBBY: I don’t think they are gonna make another big move. I think they’re just gonna be like, “I hope— I hope it’s okay.”
ALEX: Even with Senga out, though, does that not change the calculus a little bit? Isn’t Scott injured, too?
BOBBY: He— yes, he has a UCL sprain.
ALEX: That’s good. Those usually turn out well.
BOBBY: Yeah. I think they got good news from that MRI. He kind of sucked this year, though.
ALEX: Oh, okay.
BOBBY: Like, the— they sent him back down to the Minors because he wasn’t good, not because he was hurt.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: They got Butto, bro. Butto boys are riding fucking high right now, by the way. And I gotta say, it feels good to be right.
ALEX: What about—
BOBBY: David Peterson?
ALEX: —about Garrett Crochet?
BOBBY: I would like that.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Steve could sign him to an extension.
ALEX: He could do that.
BOBBY: Don’t know how I feel about extending Garrett Crochet, honestly.
ALEX: You’re— are you out on him?
BOBBY: Not out on him. I just think that, like, my “I need to sign an extension before pitching an inning for you in the playoffs, because I’m worried about my health” shirt has people asking a lot of questions answered by my shirt?
ALEX: Yeah. Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
BOBBY: I do. Yeah. So Garrett Crochet, White Sox starter, probably their most sought after piece at the deadline. Probably the best starting pitcher who’s like fully on— on the block, on the trading block. Unless I’m forgetting someone.
ALEX: There’s—
BOBBY: I mean, Eflin was the other one, but he’s been already traded.
ALEX: All right. Skubal?
BOBBY: I don’t think Skubal is gonna get traded.
ALEX: All right. Well, he’s like, number one on the athletics like, trade deadline big board. Yeah. I mean, maybe— maybe he won’t. I don’t know.
BOBBY: I would be surprised if he got traded. He’s like too good, you know? This is what I’m talking about with the market. It’s always so cold because it’s like who wants to pay the price that Tarik Skubal demands? No one. They’ll just clean up with the comp pick and we’ll move on, you know? Anyway, not— not the point. Either way, Garrett Crochet, one of the top pitches starting pitchers on the market. Lefty, converted from the bullpen to a starter, pumps a 100, very effective pitcher, misses a lot of bats, but he— he has not historically been a starter at the Major League level. This is his first season doing it. He is already about 25 innings over his career high workload, even dating back to— I guess he was like a starter in the Minors and then they moved him to the bullpen.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Then he came to the Majors, and now he’s back to being a starter. This happens with a lot of guys, because nobody’s ever really sure, because everyone is just going for max effort all the time, so it’s like—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —we’ll— we’ll give you a couple years to decide whether or not your UCL can take this. So he’s back into a starter role again, about 25, 30 innings, already past his career high in innings. And he’s concerned about that, I think, fairly as he should be, you know? He— the White Sox are not going anywhere. He would probably be the biggest return that they could get at this deadline. And so the rumor was that they were going to try to trade him, but he came out and said, via his agent, that if a team wants to trade for him—
ALEX: Did he— did he actually say it or was it just like reported that that’s what teams are concerned about?
BOBBY: It was reported that his agent has told the White Sox to tell teams that.
ALEX: Hmm, okay.
BOBBY: I believe. So, like, pretty solidly—
ALEX: Right, yeah.
BOBBY: —that this was— so, I guess a good caveat to say. Like, this is all speculation. It’s not like you give a press conference about this.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Be a little bit more aggressive if he had done that. But that— that his agent and— and the White Sox are telling teams that if they want to trade for him, that in order for him to pitch in the playoffs, which is a pretty big incentive if you’re trading for a player at the trade deadline, that he would need to be offered an extension, because he’s concerned about his long term health, pushing already during the regular season, well past his career high in workload, and then into October, which is totally unknown territory for him.
ALEX: Yeah. Or— or I will say, it’s also noted that if a team wants to use him as, like, a high leverage reliever—
BOBBY: Yes, willing to go back.
ALEX: —he’s also asking to [35:10]
BOBBY: Yeah. Yeah.
ALEX: So he’s like, I like starting, right now I’m not comfortable with relieving. If you give me a— a— you know, a dump truck of money, ah, we could talk about it.”
BOBBY: When is this free agency?
ALEX: 2027. Hey, I got a question for you. When Baseball Reference says he’s a free agent in 2027, does that mean—
BOBBY: I think that’s like after the ’27 season.
ALEX: After— oh, after the 2027 season?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Okay. Great.
BOBBY: Because otherwise, he would become a free agent in 2026, technically.
ALEX: Yes, yeah.
BOBBY: Because it would be like November.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: So I believe that means he will sign and play for the 2028 season. We’re just pretending like these seasons are going to happen.
ALEX: No, I think you’re right. I mean, he has three years of service time under his belt.
BOBBY: So three more years?
ALEX: Three more years.
BOBBY: This is— this is so interesting to me, because I— there’s not really that many direct comparison points for a player doing this. This feels like a— this feels like pushing through some sort of boundary or ceiling that players have been afraid to tell teams. Obviously, guys want extensions. Guys want to be paid better and want to have the security in order to risk career-changing injuries. I think he’s just in a really unique situation, because he just switched to being a starter this year, switched back to being a starter, and he knows that the White Sox are in full sell mode. They’re one of the few teams that are like, “We are trading everything away, and we actually have something interesting to trade away.” And so he— he’s coming from a position of power, and he’s actually leveraging it.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I don’t know. What do you think?
ALEX: Well, I mean, so it’s not the first time we’ve seen it, right? I mean, the most recent example of this is Josh Hader, right? Who basically—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —works a slightly different—
BOBBY: Slightly different, but yeah, yeah.
ALEX: Well, slightly different, but basically saying, “We’re putting really strict guardrails around my usage.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Right. And—
BOBBY: I can only be used for one inning at a time.
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: I have to come into a clean inning.
ALEX: Yes, exactly. Now, if you— once again, if you want to talk contract extent— contract— contract extension, if you want to give me some level of job security, then that’s great, but I don’t want to risk an injury, tank my value, and then, you know— whatever. And then I don’t have a career anymore.
BOBBY: It’s a little different, because Josh Hader was heading into his first free agency right after that.
ALEX: Yes. And he got— he—
BOBBY: And Garrett Crochet has three more years of team control.
ALEX: I mean, and Hader had much more of a track record, I think, as well, so—
BOBBY: Yes, true. And also had fought hard in arbitration three times already.
ALEX: Yes. So—
BOBBY: Crochet has not gone through that, though.
ALEX: —so it is different, but— but it’s not— I mean, again, they’re repped by the same agency, CAA.
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
ALEX: So— and I’m not necessarily saying that this is an agency directive or anything like that, but it doesn’t seem out of the question to me that there may be players who are like, “Hey, like, do I have any leverage here?”
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: Like, if I don’t want to do this. Or if you’re having those conversations with your agent and saying, “I’m concerned about my health.” You say, “All right. Well, what can we do to put a little pressure on teams?” And I don’t know. I’m a little conflicted by it. I think the starter versus reliever thing is one thing. Like, I kind of think that’s fine. If you want to say, “My role is a starter, I’m going to be a starter. If you want to lock me up for a while, then we’ll be co-workers for a long time, and we can have that discussion.” But like— but like—
BOBBY: Co-workers.
[laughter]
ALEX: And, you know, ’cause he’s co-workers with—with Jerry Reinsdorf.
BOBBY: I think he prefers not to think of it that way.
ALEX: Probably not. I think the playoff thing is kind of come funny.
BOBBY: It’s—
ALEX: Like, I — I understand it.
BOBBY: It does tug on a sort of, like, regressive baseball fan, in my mind, that I haven’t quite totally killed.
ALEX: Right. Where you’re like—
BOBBY: Like, so you’re just gonna go to a playoff team and then not play in the playoffs?
ALEX: Like [39:11]
BOBBY: Don’t you want to do that?
ALEX: I know. Yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: I’m sure he does want to do that. He has genuine medical concerns, though, because, like—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Has he had TJ yet? I don’t know.
ALEX: Yeah, I think he has. Yes.
BOBBY: He has?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So a second TJ is— is a different beast. But—
ALEX: And— and hey, like, you have no idea what— you know, how real any of these, you know, kind of— I don’t want to call them threats, but like these propositions are, you know? Like—
BOBBY: These preferences, these strong preferences.
ALEX: Like— like, is that actually true? If he gets—
BOBBY: I don’t know.
ALEX: If he gets traded to a contender, is he not gonna play?
BOBBY: This is like when Matt Harvey wasn’t gonna pitch more than 180 innings a year after his Tommy John, and then the Mets went to the World Series and he pitched 215 innings.
ALEX: Right. I mean, I think it’s— he has control over his own labor. It’s— it’s entirely his call. And I do think—
BOBBY: I have a question, though.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Does he?
ALEX: Like, are you saying could they force him to go out and start?
BOBBY: They— wouldn’t they fine him? I guess he’s willing to pay the fine.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: But that was my first thought when I saw this, was like, how is he going— yes, you have the leverage that you create. You have control over your own labor. Withholding your labor is the best way to get what you want.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: In this labor management market that we have in this country under capitalism. True. True. All of it is true. Totally agree. Obviously, if you’re listening to this podcast, you know that that’s how I feel about these things. But, like, couldn’t any player say this? I’ll just stop playing unless you give me an extension for $300 million?
ALEX: I mean, not any— only the super utility guys.
BOBBY: He’s sort of a super utility pitcher.
ALEX: Right. He— he started [40:44]
BOBBY: Exactly. You know who’s a super utility pitcher?
ALEX: Who?
BOBBY: Jose Butto.
ALEX: Yeah, that’s right. I mean, I guess in theory—
BOBBY: Why wouldn’t anyone do this? I’m saying like, why wouldn’t Justin Verlander do this? Yeah, I’m not going to pitch in the playoffs this year unless you give me another contract.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I guess just because— I think that you can fine him for this.
ALEX: Yes, I think so, too. And frankly, I think that most players are not necessarily willing to go out on that limb—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —and potentially ruin relationships with other teams. I’m not saying that no one’s gonna touch him now, but you know, again, this story broke because it’s the idea that teams are having concerns about what they’re hearing from him and his agent. And— and I do think it’s like— you have to—
BOBBY: Isn’t it tampering if teams are hearing [41:33]
ALEX: What’d you say?
BOBBY: Isn’t it tampering?
ALEX: Well—
BOBBY: Are you technically not supposed to hear from their agent until you trade for him? I mean, unless it’s coming from the White Sox side.
ALEX: [41:43]
BOBBY: Yeah, I’m pretty sure. I’m pretty sure like if you’re another team, you can’t talk to a second team’s player’s agent.
ALEX: Oh. Oh. Oh, I see. It’s— yes. Yes, I got you. Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I mean, I think you have to be in a really specific position to do this—
BOBBY: Who the fuck is running the White Sox right now, by the way?
ALEX: I don’t know.
BOBBY: I don’t know who their GM is. They fired everyone in their baseball ops team, like—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —right before season.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Or, like, a month into the season. Genuinely don’t know who their GM is. Couldn’t tell you.
ALEX: All right. Well, I guess we’ll never know.
BOBBY: They did bring— they did bring back Tony La Russa as a consultant. I’m serious.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: I’m not even kidding.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: This is interesting. You know what I will be interested to see?
ALEX: What?
BOBBY: Is if this happens and he sits out, how an arbitration board will react to this.
ALEX: Right. How do you value that?
BOBBY: I don’t think they will be happy about it.
ALEX: No. I think what’s gonna happen is he’s not gonna get traded. And he’s just gonna get traded—
BOBBY: I agree.
ALEX: —in the offseason.
BOBBY: I think so, too.
ALEX: Then you avoid this whole issue.
BOBBY: Yeah. Sure would be nice—
ALEX: Robert is going to the Dodgers, though. So—
BOBBY: You think Luis Robert is going to the Dodgers?
ALEX: Yeah. Book it.
BOBBY: Ooh. Do you think maybe—
ALEX: Mookie Betts for Luis Robert, who says no?
BOBBY: Who says yes?
ALEX: Who says what problem does that solve?
BOBBY: He makes more than Luis Robert for the next decade. God, I really miss Mookie.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Is he coming back soon?
ALEX: I have no idea.
BOBBY: Cool. All right. Is that—
ALEX: [43:10] podcast.
BOBBY: Is that all of our trade deadline topics?
ALEX: I think so.
BOBBY: That was pretty good.
ALEX: That was good. I think— I think—
BOBBY: A good segment. Round of applause.
ALEX: —we [43:14] our way through it, yes.
BOBBY: Woo! Talked about baseball for 45 minutes. Hang the fucking banner. Do you want to talk about the collective bargaining agreement?
ALEX: Yeah, back in our bullshit.
BOBBY: Yeah, here’s the good stuff. Okay. So they amended the collective bargaining agreement, both sides came together. They reopened a section of the collective bargaining agreement about the luxury tax and how that money can be spent. So this is coming from Evan Drellich’s reporting in The Athletic, where else would it come from? The league came to an agreement with the Players Association about using luxury tax money, so that is the money that is collected when teams pay the tax on the amount that they go over the luxury tax thresholds, no matter what luxury tax threshold they’re blowing through. That money goes into a pool, and previously, it was equally distributed to the teams who did not go over the luxury tax, which is like—
ALEX: Which, like, hang on.
BOBBY: I know. It was split 50/50.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And redistributed between the teams that did not go over the luxury tax, and the other 50% was put towards the pension fund and, like, the, you know, healthcare fund for players after they retire. So that money funded those things. I believe now there are stricter rules about how that money is redistributed, and they came together to sign off on allowing teams who have lost out on TV revenue from contracts that have went bust, namely with Bally Sports for the most part, over the last couple of years. The Players Association has signed off on allowing the league to put together payments to those teams to recoup some of those lost revenues. With a maximum cap of $15 million per team, with a maximum total allotment from the league of— I think it was like 115 million.
ALEX: Something like that. Yeah.
BOBBY: And the Players Association said that they think that this will increase spending because teams who have lost out on this TV revenue can no longer use it as an excuse, because now there is a mechanism with which the commissioner and Major League Baseball can say, “Okay, here’s this money to make up for this.” I’m slightly dubious of this.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Because $15 million cap, that’s not going to pay for all of the money that every team has lost. It’ll pay for— for a good chunk of it. And Bally— Bally and Diamond— Diamond Sports Group—
ALEX: Yup.
BOBBY: —is still responsible for figuring out how to get this money to these teams, eventually, whether it’s through bankruptcy, refinancing, or a— a better business plan. But in the short term, they’re not getting this money. The league is giving them loans from the commissioner’s purse, and now they are able to fund them through this mechanism as well, which essentially like a way to get the commissioner more money—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —to give to the teams. But like the teams, for example, in the article, it says that some of the teams that have taken back their rights and are now running them through MLB TV has started to recoup some of those funds, and it named the— the Padres as the most successful example. The Padres being a team with a lot of marquee talent, a really devout fan base, and a team that is like kind of all-in, has been mostly all in for the last couple years. And they took those— they took those streaming rights back, they centralized them with the league. And you can buy blackout free MLB TV for the Padres in the San Diego market for 19.99 a month. And they’ve sold— and this is according to them, the most successful version of this that they’ve done. They’ve sold 40,000 subscriptions, 40,000. 40,000 times 20, that’s $800,000.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know, times six months. Just to make the math a little bit easier, let’s just say that was a million— that’s $6 million.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Pretty good. Not enough to make up for TV revenue.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Of any contract in the league, let alone a team that has a good TV contract. Some of these TV contracts pay like a 100 million a year.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Most of them pay like between 20 and 50.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Even if you give the Padres $15 million, that’s what— now they’re up to like 20 million. I don’t know. A new Padres owner— because the Padres lost their owner in this past year. A new Padres owner who wants to cut spending a little bit will still use that as an excuse.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Now, will they have less ground to stand on with that excuse? Sure, but is it still a viable excuse? I think so, yes. What do you think?
ALEX: I don’t necessarily know what is viable or not, because it’s— again, because we don’t know what these books look like. But what I will say is I think this shows the perils of— kind of putting all your eggs in one basket when it comes to a sort of new financial model, right? Teams were like— and then the league was like, RSNs are a cash cow. Like, this is— this is the future. This is the future of watching sports, and then it wasn’t. And, like, they seemed— caught a little flat-footed.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And, I don’t know, I think about the increasing the, like, creeping sports betting in baseball, and the way that that in itself is creating new revenue streams, for teams, which is great. I love that. I’m glad they’re making more money off of such a valuable product for fans. But I don’t know. But it also obscures the fact that, like, it’s not the only revenue stream. Like it’s— this is not something you can run your entire franchise on, necessarily, but you also have other stuff. And— and whenever you hear teams cry poor, it’s always— that like— there’s— there’s one revenue stream, you know, that’s, like, dried up a little bit. Oh, we don’t have gate tickets. Yeah, we don’t— you know, we’re not getting the gate receipts.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: Oh, we don’t have TV revenue. You know? My investments went belly up in Covid. Like, whatever— whatever it is, you know?
BOBBY: Right. Money’s not cheap anymore.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Whatever that means.
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, while teams are losing some money on this, for sure— I don’t know. I would be curious to know what sort of guardrails are being put in place to ensure that like— like, are there requirements that this money be spent on competitiveness? Probably not. You can’t really dictate that. Although they’ve tried in the past and most have failed, but like—
BOBBY: All the money that is— all the money that is gained through revenue sharing is supposed to be put into the on-field product.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: There are gray areas for what that means, is refi— refurbishing your stadium, is that putting it into the on-field product?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: I would say no.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Teams would say yes.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Teams would say, “Oh, that’s part of, you know, putting together a quality baseball team as part of attracting free agents. That’s part of making sure that our ball club can withstand the test of time and continue to be competitive.” All that stuff. I personally think that that’s part of raising the franchise value, and raising the franchise value alone.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Nobody goes to a team because they have better seats in the outfield. You know? I don’t think that’s why Ohtani picked the Dodgers. Even though they have great seats in the outfield.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Well, Ohtani’s not worried about the outfield seats. You know, he hits it over that.
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: Hits it out of the stadium.
ALEX: He’s like, “They’re— none of them are gonna be catching this anyway.”
BOBBY: Exactly.
ALEX: Yeah. I don’t know. It’s— this is also slightly complicated by the fact that they were nearing a potential resolution in the Bally case.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And like they reached— they’re— they’re nearing a deal with Comcast, which would bring the dozen teams whose— whose games have not been broadcast back to TV.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: But that also might delay the ultimate bankruptcy proceedings for Bally. This thing just gets weirder and weirder, and like, harder and harder to parse, I think.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I mean, I know I joked about this in the Patreon episode. It’s just really funny when— when the ownership side is always like, “Let us do socialism better.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: “Let us share our money easier.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: “With fewer restrictions.”
ALEX: Yup.
BOBBY: “So we can help the teams that need it. So we can keep everybody afloat.” What a concept, you know?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: What if we applied that to other places? Stu Sternberg, what do you think about that? He’s just one of the cheapest owners, he’s just who came up to mind.
ALEX: So you’re saying that— that he—
BOBBY: Mark Attanasio?
ALEX: —we should be distributing more to him?
BOBBY: We should be distributing more money in a lot of different places. The logic that holds here should hold in other places. We gotta get that money in the Kamala campaign. We gotta find a better way. We gotta take that money from the Biden reserve, and we gotta find a way to redistribute it to the— the Kamala-Shapiro 2024.
ALEX: [52:40] isn’t that— can’t they, like, do that? Are they—
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: All right.
BOBBY: I don’t think they can.
ALEX: All right, no. But like—
BOBBY: No, I don’t think they can.
ALEX: You’re telling me Biden’s just sitting on that pile of cash now?
BOBBY: Legally, I think yes. I think money that went to Super PACs.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: But I think direct campaign donations is just hanging with [52:58]
ALEX: Yes. Joe Biden could not donate a million dollars to Kamala’s [53:01]
BOBBY: What’s he gonna do with that money? Just send it back? If you, Alex Bazeley, hypothetically had given $20 directly to Joe Biden—
ALEX: Yeah, I’m pissed.
BOBBY: —which millions of Americans probably did. Fucked up or not. Where’s that $20 going if it’s not already been spent on commercials for Joe Biden for president? Can he just spend the—
ALEX: The— the Padres monthly TV package.
BOBBY: Joe— Joe signing up—
ALEX: 40,001, baby.
BOBBY: —to catch that Ha-Seong Kim opposite field double, you know?
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Gap to gap hitter.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Great player to watch.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Super utility man.
ALEX: Super u— super utility man.
BOBBY: I don’t know. I don’t think he can play, like, third. He plays second and short.
ALEX: Right. Which, as we discussed, does not qualify him.
BOBBY: Could stick him in left, though, probably. I don’t know.
ALEX: I’m always kind of like, couldn’t like anyone play outfield?
BOBBY: That’s what I just said at the beginning of the pod. Who can’t you stick in the left?
ALEX: Right. Yes. Ex—
BOBBY: We did a whole segment of that.
ALEX: No, I know. That’s—
BOBBY: Okay. Let’s roll right along. Gotta say, like I said, it’s all business today.
ALEX: It is all business.
BOBBY: We’re flying.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Bingo question that you had. You would— you would just like to do a little audit of the bingo board.
ALEX: Well, yes. Do you— should we run through our bingo real quick? Because it’s been a few weeks since we’ve—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: And I think we’ve— we’ve had one or two hit. We talked before— I think you told me we have six—
BOBBY: Yes. We have had— MLB has released a new way to engage with the game.
ALEX: We did— wait, we did have that?
BOBBY: That was the most recent one.
ALEX: What was that one?
BOBBY: You didn’t see this? MLB created a WhatsApp channel. This was from the all-star break.
ALEX: I can’t believe we didn’t— you— you just glossed right over it.
BOBBY: You just— you haven’t— you weren’t following along. There’s a secret ballpark food item hidden at all-star this year, introducing the Gram Slam Burger, two all-beef patties topped with smoked brisket, caramelized onions, American cheese, and ranch aioli. This was like a product activation at all-star break—
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: —for the Rangers. To get it, head to the MLB Life Food Lounge in Esports Stadium within All-Star Village and show that you follow MLB’s WhatsApp channel. So any number of those things could be a new way to engage with the game. The Esports Stadium within All-Star Village, which I— I know what all— you know what All-Star Village is, right?
ALEX: Yeah. Of course.
BOBBY: And show that you follow MLB’s WhatsApp channel. That’s what I’m claiming is the new way to engage with the game. MLB’s WhatsApp channel.
ALEX: Hang on. I’m following it right now.
BOBBY: Do they just like text you stuff? I don’t—
ALEX: But I’m curious. I don’t know. How do I do it? Do it— is it a community? No, I don’t want to create a community.
BOBBY: You should actually.
ALEX: See example community? No. I know the community I wanted. Maybe it’s a— is it a channel? Follow your en— oh, every time I press on a button, it comes up with, like, an explainer of what that button does. I’m like—
BOBBY: Thank— thanks— thanks a lot [55:57] I got it. I got it. I can send it to you.
ALEX: I— I like how there’s an MLB channel and then an MLB India channel.
BOBBY: I’m gonna be real—
ALEX: Those are just the only two.
BOBBY: I’m gonna be real with you, dawg. The channel, the WhatsApp channel has 1.9 million followers, so this might not be a new way to engage with the game. This might be an old way to engage with the game, but we didn’t know about it. I think it still counts.
ALEX: Okay. Well, it— so maybe we— maybe this gets checked off anyway. Because my question was going to be about a new way to engage with the game.
BOBBY: Oh, this was where you wanted to raise the question. Okay.
ALEX: Mine is a little bit of a borderline case, too. But maybe if we get 50% of the WhatsApp and 50% of this one, it would— you know, creates a new way to engage with the game.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: They wrote a— mlb.com wrote an article over all-star week that said, “Watch the All-Stars in a new way in Game Day 3D.” Now, Game Day 3D is not necessarily new, right? Like—
BOBBY: It started last year, yeah.
ALEX: Like, if you know, you know.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: You’ve been in the know.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But the league is touting it—
BOBBY: As a new way to engage.
ALEX: —as quite literally a new way to engage. “Watch the All-Stars in a new way.” I—
BOBBY: I think either of them satisfies.
ALEX: Okay. You think—
BOBBY: We’re— we are not Scalia here. We’re not literalists. We’re taking a wide berth of accepting answers for the bingo card.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Not too wide.
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: Not too wide. I— I would say a couple of these we could have probably said yes on so far, and we haven’t.
ALEX: Probably, yeah.
BOBBY: Like a team gets wrapped up in the culture war. I don’t know. There’s been a couple, like, potentials, but nothing that really felt like it satisfied it, for sure.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Okay, here are the other ones that we’ve gotten so far. Players suspended for betting. Prestige Magazine profile of an owner, which, by the way, I was skeptical of that one, but I put it to a vote. You recall this? There was a Financial Times profile of John Henry.
ALEX: Oh.
BOBBY: It was like the right kind of profile, maybe not the right outlet—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —but people voted yes.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: And that’s democracy, brother. MLBPA files a grievance. @MLB Twitter account tweets out betting lines. And then finally, the Umpires Union releases a statement. They had to release that statement about Pat Hoberg. Remember, he was suspended for betting.
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s all betting-related. Which means we have a lot on here that are not fulfilled. I’m not going to read them all because, like, we’ve done this four times now at this point, and we’ll put a link in the description to the— the latest update to each showing which have been crossed off. But, you know, we’re getting into August now.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You reminded—
ALEX: Clock’s ticking.
BOBBY: You reminded me before we sat down. I’ve been a little down on the bingo card.
ALEX: You’ve been super down on the— you’re like, “We’re doing so bad. It’s already August, we only have six.” And I did have to remind you that the point of bingo is not to cross off everything on your bingo card.
BOBBY: As far as I’m concerned, the point of bingo is to get five in a row right away.
ALEX: Yeah, right.
BOBBY: What’s the number one— I guess juiced ball controversy. All of the seeds have been planted, but we haven’t had the controversy yet.
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah.
BOBBY: Did you see people saying that they feel like it’s re-juiced again?
ALEX: No. I thought it was de-juiced earlier this year.
BOBBY: I think that they turned the juice back up after the all-star break—
ALEX: Oh, okay.
BOBBY: —is the implication.
ALEX: Oh.
BOBBY: Well, someone was saying there’s been three home runs of 470 feet plus. There were none in the first half.
ALEX: There have been a lot of long. Yeah.
BOBBY: Interesting.
ALEX: Interesting. I mean, warmer weather, ball flies.
BOBBY: Two— two of them were [59:17] though, so—
ALEX: Ooh, the plot thickens.
BOBBY: And then there’s that like— that other guy who had, like, six home runs in his last, like, seven games or something like that.
ALEX: Oh, yeah.
BOBBY: What’s his name?
ALEX: Tyler Fitzgerald?
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: He’s— yeah, I think he’s at eight of nine right now. Eight home runs of his last nine games.
BOBBY: Circumstantial— circumstantial evidence at best, a jury would not convict, but we’re getting close. We’re getting close.
ALEX: We’re just waiting for the smoking gun.
BOBBY: Right, exactly. We need forensic evidence, literally. For Meredith Wills, [59:48] What is the one that you’re most disappointed hasn’t hit yet? For me, it’s— I’m really upset that my man, LeBron James, has not tweeted about Shohei Ohtani.
ALEX: I know, I know.
BOBBY: I felt really good about that one. Really good.
ALEX: As I— As I said to you before we started recording, I think if the Dodgers make a run in the playoffs, not out of the question, I would say.
BOBBY: You think the Dodgers are gonna make the playoffs?
ALEX: I know. Hot take.
BOBBY: Not unless they get Luis Robert for Mookie Betts.
ALEX: Dodgers back in the World Series, LeBron kind of has to tweet about Shohei, right?
BOBBY: I mean, yeah.
ALEX: Like, that’s what he does.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: He taps into whatever’s going on at the moment, gives his two cents.
BOBBY: [1:00:26] 3023.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’s gonna lock in. Maybe after the Olympics.
ALEX: Right. He’s a little busy right now.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Crossing the Delaware.
BOBBY: He’s so cool.
ALEX: He’s so sick. I love him.
BOBBY: He’s so corny, but he’s cool.
ALEX: I know. What am I most disappointed about? I’m— frankly, I’m disappointed we haven’t gotten an owner who donates to RFK yet.
BOBBY: I don’t even know how we would find that, though.
ALEX: You do what I did a few weeks ago, which is just go to the fec.gov and type in owner names—
BOBBY: The owner names.
ALEX: —one by one and then search for— I mean, because, like, most of them have not made donations, or not made a large number of donations.
BOBBY: Well, how could they? They didn’t know who was going to be the democratic candidate. They didn’t know whether or not they wanted to support Biden or not.
ALEX: Look, I’m doing my best, but if— if any intrepid listener is interested in— in going on their own search, you know, maybe it was not through a traditional means. It was a little handshake deal under the table.
BOBBY: Another one that I’m disappointed in, that I— I don’t think we can get it, and I’m breaking this news to you live on the podcast. I did some reporting.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: I— the Rangers are not going to the White House.
ALEX: Interest— why?
BOBBY: Well, they’re not— they don’t have a trip to DC this year, I guess, which I thought everybody played everybody.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: But I guess not home and away. I guess you can have one series against the opposite league and could be at home.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: So they’re not going to DC this year. They don’t have an off day in the Baltimore trip. And I asked mlb.com Rangers reporter Kennedi Landry, when the Rangers were going to the White House and she said, “I don’t think they are.”
ALEX: They’re not.
BOBBY: So I don’t think Biden’s gonna mess up a Rangers’ player’s name—
ALEX: Is that weird?
BOBBY: —both because I don’t think that he is gonna be there, even if they do come to the White House. Like Kamala was the one who was, like, sending off the— the USA Olympians, right?
ALEX: Yeah, but, like, that’s kind of crazy, right? Like, each team—
BOBBY: It’s interesting.
ALEX: —does this.
BOBBY: Yeah, there was a bunch of teams that didn’t go when Trump was president.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And now, it’s the reverse.
ALEX: Well, there were, like, players who didn’t go when Trump was president. I don’t think there were entire teams—
BOBBY: No, there were whole teams. Like the— the Warriors didn’t go. The Cavs didn’t go.
ALEX: Oh, oh, in ba— in baseball, though, I’m saying.
BOBBY: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yes.
ALEX: Like, you had players abstain, right?
BOBBY: And you had players play golf with him.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: The political divide [1:02:55]
ALEX: I don’t know. I mean, maybe they’re making a political statement.
BOBBY: I find it interesting. It’s not irrelevant.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I think if circumstances were different and the— the team and organization at large had a slightly different political bent.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And was located in a different place, perhaps they would be going a little bit further out of their way to go.
ALEX: It’s a data point.
BOBBY: But they’re like, “Eh, maybe next time.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: “Maybe next time we win the World Series.” Which probably won’t happen with any of these people are on this team. Statistically speaking.
ALEX: Wow. Shots fired.
BOBBY: You think—
ALEX: This is like— this is a good baseball team.
BOBBY: Not this year.
ALEX: Right. But broadly speaking, you think they are bad?
BOBBY: You know that I’ve been down on the Rangers this whole time, like right up to the point that they won the World Series last year.
ALEX: Yeah, I know.
BOBBY: I just didn’t believe. I’m not a believer.
ALEX: I know. And this is what you do. You dig your heels in.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly.
ALEX: Good. You— you’re a man of convictions. I am not. My convictions blow in the wind like a fucking leaf.
BOBBY: You landed that plane.
ALEX: Thanks.
BOBBY: When you started the sentence, you didn’t know what metaphor you were going for.
ALEX: That was really [1:03:55]
BOBBY: And you crushed it. That’s like— that was, like, identifying that you were a sitting fastball. You identified that it was a breaking ball, and you crushed it.
ALEX: Thank you.
BOBBY: Nice work. All right. Okay. Do you want to close out here with our ranking segment?
ALEX: Uh-hmm. By the way, happy birthday, Alex Rodriguez. I know we’re a couple days late.
BOBBY: Oh. Yes, we got an email about this.
ALEX: We did get an email about it. Next— next year, we’ll be more prepared. Kind of snuck up on us, but he’s always invited to the meetup.
BOBBY: Yeah. Why— why haven’t we ever tried to get him to, like, come to something? Tell him it’s like an investor conference. It’s a Tipping Pitches investor conference.
ALEX: Yeah. I think we should seriously start investing in Slam Corp, so that we can go to him and say, “We’re shareholders.”
BOBBY: We set it aside, like people set aside saving for our home.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: We set aside like Slam Corp money—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —and eventually, we just, like, bear hug the company. He would have to be grudgingly respect that.
ALEX: Like, I want to get on those shareholder calls.
BOBBY: Okay. I would like you to rank these five cereals.
ALEX: Like serialized shows?
BOBBY: Presumed innocent. No, cereals, brea—
ALEX: My iPad died while watching the finale like seven minutes before it was over.
BOBBY: Oh.
ALEX: And that I haven’t finished it.
BOBBY: Oh, so you got the verdict, though?
ALEX: I actually did get the verdict, yeah.
BOBBY: Okay. Well, you didn’t get the twist, then.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I don’t even know if I can finish the segment. Knowing that happened to you, I want to stop and show it to you.
ALEX: I know. Just finish right now, yeah.
BOBBY: Okay. These are— these are the five most popular cereal brands in the United States, according to foodandwine.com.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Which was using— this is since 2004. This is accumulative popularity since 2004 according to Google search—
ALEX: According, like, boxes purchased?
BOBBY: According to Google searches, I don’t know what that means. Just ignore the methodology—
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: —for a second.
ALEX: I can’t— you know I can’t do that.
BOBBY: I’m not gonna put them in—
ALEX: I need to be able to replicate this myself.
BOBBY: I’m not gonna put them in order because then— I don’t know, I don’t want to influence you.
ALEX: Yeah. Okay.
BOBBY: Chex.
ALEX: What? Okay. All right.
BOBBY: Special K, Cheerios, Rice Krispies, and Lucky Charms. Those are the five—
ALEX: Those are the five most popular?
BOBBY: We live in a degraded society that has no standards.
ALEX: This is crazy. All right. Okay. This is actually—
BOBBY: It’s harder, because they’re all on bad.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Before you do this, you want to say your favorite cereal?
ALEX: Sure. I’m a big Honey Bunches of Oats guy.
BOBBY: Me, too. 1A and 1B for me is Honey Bunches of Oats and Raisin Bran.
ALEX: And Raisin Bran is the other one, yeah. Okay. We’re the same person.
BOBBY: Oh, my God.
ALEX: Goddammit.
BOBBY: That’s cute. That was a cute moment.
ALEX: Yeah. I like something with, like, some structure, you know, but also some varied textures.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: Which it’s— is maybe the— the problem with a lot of the ones on this list, right?
BOBBY: I mean, there are some varied textures on Lucky Charms.
ALEX: I don’t— right. Yeah, I guess.
BOBBY: They’re varied— the textures are varied.
ALEX: I’m— I had not been a huge cereal guy as of late. I think just ’cause I’m going into the office everyday now, and so, like, I don’t have that time in the morning to sit with my hot coffee and my bowl of cereal.
BOBBY: You should bring a thermos of cereal on the subway.
ALEX: That’d be really good. I should just, like, shake it up, you know? Like, it’s a smoothie.
BOBBY: That’s disgusting.
ALEX: A protein shake. Yeah, this is my Rice Krispie milk.
BOBBY: We could get you into the protein shake game in the morning.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Will you make them for me? If I stop by here before I head off to work?
BOBBY: I actually would.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: What time are you going to stop by, though? ‘Cause if it’s too early, probably not.
ALEX: Like, 8:00?
BOBBY: Ooh. I’ll make it the night before.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: it’ll be in the fridge. I’ll give you a key. Don’t wake me up. I’ll meal prep for you but not for myself.
ALEX: All right. Maybe that’s what we need to do, is like— well, that’s the whole thing, right? It’s like—
BOBBY: It’s so much easier to do stuff for other people—
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: —than it is for yourself.
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: Sorry, I just got really [1:07:59]
ALEX: Yeah, I know.
BOBBY: I used to make overnight oats for myself every morning and then I just stopped. And I’ve enjoyed it a lot. I was like, “This is the best—”
ALEX: You made them in the morning?
BOBBY: No. I made it the night before.
ALEX: Oh, okay. I was gonna say, I think that’s defeating the purpose of the overnight part.
BOBBY: And I’ve loved it so much. Every morning, I was like, ” This is best— this is the best breakfast. Feels so good, perfect amount of food.” And then I just stopped doing it. I don’t know why. I should go back to doing it.
ALEX: You should. I’ll do it for you.
BOBBY: Okay, great. I’ll give you the recipe.
ALEX: All right. Five cereals, five most popular brand. I still am a little stupefied at these being the five most popular cereal brands, but we forge ahead with foodandwine.com.
BOBBY: I trust Food & Wine.
ALEX: I do, too.
BOBBY: That’s a prestige magazine. If they had profiled Ron Henry, I would’ve checked that off in a heartbeat.
ALEX: That’s my favorite profile, is like out of leftfield. Like, he just really wants to talk. Like, look, Bob Castellini—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —purveyor of—
BOBBY: Food.
ALEX: —food.
BOBBY: And— and not wine.
ALEX: No, but maybe the ingredients for wine.
BOBBY: I don’t think so.
ALEX: That’s how that works, right? You just grow grapes, you can just— I guess he’s more—
BOBBY: Maybe.
ALEX: —he’s more of a veggie guy.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: All right.
BOBBY: No, he’s fruits and veggies.
ALEX: Okay. We’re getting a little off topic.
BOBBY: We gave him the carrot moniker because it was funny.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: You know I did it, right? Because carrot king, king of carrot flowers [1:09:25] that’s— that was the connection for me. Just so everybody knows that.
ALEX: I— I should’ve guessed. I’m gonna put Lucky Charms fifth.
BOBBY: Great choice.
ALEX: Lucky Charms is—
BOBBY: It is, indeed, fifth in popularity as well.
ALEX: Lucky Charms is not very good.
BOBBY: It’s so bad.
ALEX: I—
BOBBY: Bro—
ALEX: —liked it as a kid.
BOBBY: I didn’t have it as a kid.
ALEX: But having it— but having it today, just chewing those little, like, marshmallow pieces, and they’re just like all chalky, and I’m like, “I can feel these rotting my teeth.”
BOBBY: That’s really bad.
ALEX: It’s just not very good.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: The marshmallow, just the— the texture is— you want to talk texture, it’s all wrong.
BOBBY: This pod should be on video.
ALEX: This should be [1:10:01]
BOBBY: That was the funniest space that you’ve ever made on the show.
ALEX: I’m getting heated right now.
BOBBY: Okay. What’s next?
ALEX: Next, I’m gonna go Rice Krispies, which I—
BOBBY: Oh.
ALEX: —kind of like, but—
BOBBY: American classic.
ALEX: American classic, but have we found a solve yet for the fact that, like, it just becomes mush after 30 seconds?
BOBBY: No, you have to eat really fast, or not use very much milk. And I’m like a— I’m— I’m kind of— I use more milk than the average person in my cereal.
ALEX: Hmm. See, I’m like a— I’m like a low milk kind of guy. I just—
BOBBY: I like everything—
ALEX: —I just like my cereal—
BOBBY: —to be submerged.
ALEX: I just like them a little, like, moist, you know? I just like— like, wet my cereals. Little douse.
BOBBY: Get a little spray bottle of milk.
ALEX: That’s—
BOBBY: And spray them.
ALEX: That’s a great idea. Okay.
BOBBY: You know, like the really fancy coffee bros. who spray the beans with water before they grind them? That’s you but with cereal.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. That— yeah. That’s me with my little Rice Krispies.
BOBBY: Okay. Rice Krispies fourth.
ALEX: Okay. I’m gonna put Chex third.
BOBBY: You looked at me like you didn’t even know what Chex was, and then they finished third.
ALEX: I don’t really— I— I don’t care about Chex either way. This is not one I have a strong opinion on.
BOBBY: Okay. All right.
ALEX: I did not have it as much as Rice Krispies, but it has slightly more structural integrity to it.
BOBBY: It does, but it has the worst advertising.
ALEX: I’m a fan of— it does have the worst advertising, a fan of Chex Mix. That is where I come in contact with the little Chex pieces the most, I would say.
BOBBY: Right. When they pour a bunch of salt and cheese on it.
ALEX: Yeah. And that shit slaps.
BOBBY: What if— would you feel differently if I told you that, like, we could include all the different variations of the different types of foods— or cereals, rather? Like, if Chocolate Rice Krispies counted.
ALEX: I’m out on chocolate cereals.
BOBBY: Okay. All right. ‘Cause—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Because you’re an adult man.
ALEX: Right, exactly. That’s why I’m out on Lucky Charms. Number two, Cheerios.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: Cheerios pretty—
BOBBY: I like. Cheerios are good.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know who likes Cheerios?
ALEX: Who?
BOBBY: Stevie.
ALEX: Stevie, yeah. Should’ve known.
BOBBY: She loves Cheerios.
ALEX: They’re pretty good. Like, I— they are maybe not the most exciting pick, but it’s like dependable.
BOBBY: Would you call Cheerios the super utility man of cereals?
ALEX: Yeah, I think I would. That’s the Brock Holt right there, you know?
BOBBY: Oh.
ALEX: You’re not gonna get too— sorry [1:12:11]
BOBBY: See, you can’t even remember, because it’s so arbitrary, and we should hold our nation’s most popular journalists to a higher standard of integrity.
ALEX: Yeah, I agree.
BOBBY: For when we use utility or super utility.
ALEX: I agree. Okay.
BOBBY: That makes number one—
ALEX: Cheerios is like the— the— Chris Taylor.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: There you go.
BOBBY: Sure.
ALEX: But that does make number one, Special K.
BOBBY: Some pop in there?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Hmm, I don’t know if Cheerios has Chris Taylor pop.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Cheerio— Cheerios are Kike Hernandez.
ALEX: Was he super?
BOBBY: He was.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: He didn’t earn it either time, but in the past, he was super.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: So I’ll give it to him.
ALEX: But yes, that does make Special K number one.
BOBBY: Special K is awesome.
ALEX: Which is an amazing cereal.
BOBBY: Awesome cereal.
ALEX: That cereal is so good.
BOBBY: I’m on the whole Special K sweet.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know, the—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: — the granola bars—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —cereal?
ALEX: Yup.
BOBBY: The little snack packs.
ALEX: Yeah, it just— it’s a—
BOBBY: Wow. This is the first time that I would have made my list exactly like yours.
ALEX: Really?
BOBBY: Yeah. I think I maybe would have flipped—
ALEX: Like Chex and Rice Krispies?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: But that’s it.
ALEX: I— I mean, I— again, I don’t gravitate to either of those necessarily, which is why my ranking might be a little arbitrary there. None of this is arbitrary, except for that placement. But Special K is just— it’s good. And Bobby, guess what? It’s heart healthy.
BOBBY: All of these cereals are always [1:13:30] it’s heart healthy, part of a balanced breakfast.
ALEX: Right. I’m like—
BOBBY: Part of a balanced breakfast, where the rest of the breakfast is, where you get the nutrients.
ALEX: Yeah. Also, I’m just like— you have to specify that it’s heart healthy.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Let’s say about the cereals that aren’t specifying.
BOBBY: Well, have you ever eaten Reese’s puffs, like even just once?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I ate them once when I was on family— I was at a family reunion, and they just, like, had them lying around, and I had never been allowed to eat anything like that, like ever for breakfast or dessert.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I ate it, and I was like— even I think this is too much.
ALEX: Yeah. Like, Fruit Loops.
BOBBY: Ugh.
ALEX: Ugh.
BOBBY: Bad.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Good advertising, though.
ALEX: Good— good advertising.
BOBBY: That’s the thing is, like, a lot of these, like, Kellogg’s—
ALEX: Frosted Flakes?
BOBBY: Yeah. Too sweet for me, too.
ALEX: Little too sweet for me as well. I—
BOBBY: Closer though, we’re getting the— the Special— especially, the thing about Special K, it’s like it’s got a little fruitier flavor to it than— than sugary. It is definitely sugary, though.
ALEX: Right. It’s got that— it’s got that crunch, but it also has some, like, oats in there.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Right? Mixed in.
BOBBY: Sure.
ALEX: There’s—
BOBBY: It does, it does. That’s like— that’s like not the main nutritional—
ALEX: No, it is not, but— but I’m ju— but I’m just saying it’s—
BOBBY: —signifier.
ALEX: It’s— it’s not just one. You know, Cheerios, Chex, Rice Krispies. There’s— there’s one piece of the cereal. It’s all the same.
BOBBY: Right. Uniform.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Utility. Now, would you eat your Honey Bunches of Oats, do you prefer it with or without almonds?
ALEX: I think I’m probably agnostic. I gravitated towards regular growing up.
BOBBY: Me, too.
ALEX: But In my older age, I’ve come to appreciate the twist that almonds can bring to it.
BOBBY: So you don’t eat cereal for breakfast because you’re on the run. What do you eat for breakfast?
ALEX: Well—
BOBBY: I knew this was gonna be the answer. Nails, right?
ALEX: Wow.
BOBBY: Just nails for breakfast.
ALEX: Nails for breakfast. No, I mean, I’ll get myself a little pastry sometimes.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Have a bar.
BOBBY: I eat a lot of Greek yogurt for breakfast. Just plain.
ALEX: Any granola?
BOBBY: Sometimes I’ll throw a little granola in there if I have just some lying around.
ALEX: [1:15:33] granolas, that’s good.
BOBBY: Throw— maybe throw a little agave on there just— just to take that sour—
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: —taste off a little bit.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah. Honey if I have it.
ALEX: Yeah. Oof. Oof.
BOBBY: Some fruits, some cut up fruits.
ALEX: All right. I’ll see you tomorrow at 8:00.
BOBBY: Or just like a protein bar if I’m feeling really lazy.
ALEX: I’m not coming over for that. I’m sorry.
BOBBY: Yeah. All the innovation that we’ve had in this country, and we can’t make a good protein bar.
ALEX: That’s actually true.
BOBBY: Like we send people to the fucking moon.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Allegedly.
ALEX: Supposedly. I don’t know, I have to wait to see the new movie coming out.
BOBBY: It’s already out.
ALEX: Oh, hell yeah.
BOBBY: Fly Me to the Moon?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah. It came out a couple weeks ago, so they made no noise for you. Okay. What a great— what a great pod. Had so much fun doing this pod, back in person. Energy is right again. As a reminder, link in the description, Tipping Pitches Chicago meetup if you would like to RSVP to that, so that we can acquire you a ticket in the same section as everybody else. patreon.com/tippingpitches, three different tiers. Bonus episode coming like a week from now, right? We did one last week, right?
ALEX: We did one last week, yes.
BOBBY: For sure, definitely remember that. Newsletter coming soon. It’s my turn.
ALEX: It is.
BOBBY: I will write a newsletter soon. And a lot of other good stuff. If you would like to reach out to the podcast, ask a question, leave a note, tippingpitches pod@gmail.com, tipping_pitches on Twitter, or you can call our voicemail line, 785-422-5881. Making an effort to slow down on that. A lot of people are always like, “What’s the voicemail number again?”
ALEX: Send it back for you [1:17:06]
BOBBY: “I— I can’t find it, and also, I can’t hear you when you say it.”
ALEX: Yeah. We started this podcast with some words of wisdom from our friend, Jeff Passan.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: Do you mind— can we end with some words of wisdom from him?
BOBBY: Okay, sure.
ALEX: This came in—
BOBBY: I— I’d prefer to end with words of wisdom from Ken Rosenthal, but—
ALEX: “Just because the Cubs are considering moving players from this current roster doesn’t mean they’re selling, just as because they acquired Isaac Paredes doesn’t mean they’re buying. Modern baseball is a game about opportunity, the furthest thing from a binary. It is a fundamental tenet to understand how team— how teams operate and what motivates them. There— yeah, there can be buyers and sellers, yes, but ultimately, teams view themselves as value gatherer— gatherers.”
BOBBY: Oh, my God. He’s losing me.
ALEX: “The only question is whether they’re gathering that value for today down the road.” I’ve—
BOBBY: He really wrote all that?
ALEX: He really wrote all that.
BOBBY: That’s so weird.
ALEX: That was— I was like—
BOBBY: You know what I took from that?
ALEX: What?
BOBBY: But modern baseball mentioned.
ALEX: That’s right.
BOBBY: Thank you everybody for listening. We’ll be back next week.
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello, everybody. I’m Alex Rodriguez. Tipping Pitches. Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most. Tipping Pitches. So, we’ll see you next week. See ya!
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