Bobby and Alex reflect on the legacy of Willie Mays after this passing this week, discussing his singular place in the game and how fans internalize his legacy. Then they place the Orioles and Pirates’ new jersey patches on the Most Evil Jersey Sponsorship list, answer some listener questions, check in on a couple friends of the pod, and rank baseball superstitions.
Links:
Clinton Yates on Tipping Pitches
Clinton Yates on Willie Mays’ Life and Legacy
Bat Flips and Nerds rates our accents
Join the Tipping Pitches Patreon
Songs featured in this episode:
John Fogerty — “Center Field” , Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Transcript
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and be able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitch and kind of help out so he wasn’t tipping his pitches. So tipping pitches we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand what tipping pitches all about? That’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, we lost the greatest living baseball player. Willie Mays died at 93 this past week. And so this week, I wanted to start the podcast by honoring him with a quote from one of the other greatest baseball players who’s ever lived. This quote, which I came across while reading friend of the podcast, Clinton Yates column about the passing of Willie Mays. This quote comes from Ted Williams who—
ALEX: Heard of him.
BOBBY: —essentially in— invented modern hitting. Ted Williams said about Willie Mays, “They invented the All-Star game for Willie Mays.” I don’t know why I was reading that and it stuck with me so much. But having one guy like Ted Williams say that about another guy, like Willie Mays, and then think about everything what the All-Star game has become, to think about a time before the All-Star game existed and the player is so great, that you have to create a celebratory weekend in honor of his talents, and his magnitude, and his superstardom. For some reason, as I think about all of the retrospectives and the commemorative, and the commemorations of Willie Mays this past week that I’ve consumed, I’m just thinking about him as the all-star. Not the all-star in the way that we talk about, like voting someone into the All-Star game or the one representative from their teams, but he is the star to end all stars. And we lost him this past week, and the baseball world is a little dimmer without that star.
ALEX: Yeah, it was one of those notifications that I did a real-life double take at. I think he’s someone who like is— is easy to sort of take for granted in terms of his place in the game. And the fact that he was still with us for so long, his— his legacy had such a long tail. And I mean, growing up in the Bay Area, I kind of would— would see— you know, he would make his appearances at— at Giants, games and that sort of thing. And so there was clearly an awareness of, like, how large his shadow loomed over the sport. But there are no words, I think, that aptly describe his legacy in the sport. And the impact that he had on it, there’s a very real and maybe easy case to be made that he’s the greatest player of all-time. I mean, your mileage—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —may vary on this one way or the other. You mentioned Ted Williams, people will bring up Babe Ruth. But, like, taking it all into consideration, the— the timeframe in which he played, the— the way that the sport was growing, and the recent integration of the sport. Like, he not only, like, statistically was one of the best to ever play the game, but just in terms of like a cultural figure who helped bring the sport to new masses.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: It’s impossible to, like, overstate the impact that he had.
BOBBY: He’s one of the greatest but also one of the most singular. There’s nobody—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —who’s had a career quite like that, that length in that time period as you mentioned. We’re going to try to talk a little bit about more— we’re going to try to talk a little more about the enormity of Willie Mays’ career. We have some updating to do of our Most Evil Jersey Sponsors ranking. We have some listener questions and some fun stuff to chat about at the end of this podcast. But before we get to all of that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I’m Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[theme]
BOBBY: You know, you mentioned seen the notification when Willie Mays passed, coming across and it’s one of those ones that you truly do a double take on, because you just never imagined that series of words together, even though you can think about the fact that he was 93, even though you think about— when was his peak? It was the 1950s. Like, logically, it all makes sense, but emotionally, it just doesn’t click into place until you really realize that we’ve lost one of the greatest baseball players of all-time. And I think that was one of the things that people immediately started to talk about was this was the greatest living baseball player. Now, who is it? Now, who does this torch pass down to? It’s somewhat unbelievable that the person that it probably passes down to is literally his godson, Barry Bonds.
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: —which is just a quirk of— a quirk of our beloved sport, you know? That this is— it’s a small world when you really think about it, these collection of 1,200 baseball players at any one time, and they all know each other, seemingly. I— I might argue that he’s now the greatest non-living baseball player, too. He may have just been the greatest—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —to have ever done it.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s— it’s a fool’s errand to try to capture what his career looked like statistically in just a couple of bullet points that I’ve had here in my notes, but of the ones that stuck out to me just from opening up his Baseball- Reference page while I was waiting for you to get over here this morning, first player to have 300 home runs and 300 steals. He just invented that.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’s just— he’s like, “Oh, no— nobody ever did that before me. I’m just gonna do it.”
ALEX: Right. For the first seven years of the sport, he did one or the other.
BOBBY: Right. Exactly. 24 All-Star games, tied for the most effort. 24, that’s four fewer years than you’ve been alive.
ALEX: I’m sorry, hang on. I thought you said 24 All-Star games. I have to have misheard you, though.
BOBBY: Four fewer years than we’ve been alive. 156.2 career WAR. Number one is like the biggest accomplishment ever when Albert Pujols crossed a 100 and [5:53] just another 50%.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: 660 career home runs, 339 stolen bases, 3,187 career hits, two-time MVP, first ballot Hall of Famer. He was top six in MVP voting, 12 times, including 10 years in a row. And that’s just a— that’s just a smattering of his accomplishments. Obviously, he is one of the most decorated players in baseball, but I think what you mentioned about the time period that he was doing it really struck a chord with me. He started his career— we had this celebration this past week, which is just unbelievably coincidental that all of this was happening in this past week, the celebration of the legacy of Birmingham baseball at Rickwood Field, which was the home of the Birmingham Barons, a Negro Leagues team that Willie Mays made his professional debut with at the age of 17. After he completed high school, he played one year there before being selected by the Giants— before being signed by the Giants. The draft did not exist yet. Before being signed by the Giants. An MLB had decided to host a game there. This is the oldest professional ballpark in America, Rickwood Field. MLB had decided prior to the season to host the game. They’re honoring the legacy of the Negro Leagues as part of this sort of ongoing conversation, ongoing commemoration of the impact of the Negro Leagues on the history of baseball. And now as statistics have been folded in and as we passed the centennial a couple of years ago, MLB is making an effort to continue this— this commemorative spirit of the history of the Negro Leagues. It was announced a few days in advance that Willie Mays would not be able to travel for this event, even though he was hoping to have been able to do that, because this is his hometown and this was— he grew up like a 20-minute drive from Birmingham. And he was obviously going to feature heavily in the discussion and the commemoration of what this field, and what this team, and what the Negro Leagues— the Negro American leagues, which was what Birmingham was part of, meant to the history of baseball. And then a couple days later, we find out that he passed away at the age of 93 in a statement from the Giants. It’s— it’s an unbelievable coincidence, a moment of serendipity to give people the chance to gather in this way, and honor Willie Mays’ legacy, and career, and life, and respect the— the person that he was and how much he meant to the entirety of the baseball community. But it’s just one of those things where you look at it and you’re like, “How— it’s— it’s— I can’t believe this happened. I can’t believe this happened this way. As all part of this, we know how far things have to be scheduled in advance for Major League Baseball to pull off executions like this, to host games in places, to have teams agree to come play on this field that is not either of their home fields. And it was— this was a game between the Giants, Willie Mays’ team, longest tenured team, I guess, 23 seasons, the Giants. And the St. Louis Cardinals. So I just— you just have to shake your head and just think about the fact that there’s something divine there. There’s something divine going on, whether it’s the baseball gods, or your own personal god, or whatever you believe in, just a stroke of luck of the universe, that everybody was already gathered in Birmingham this week to— to celebrate not just Willie Mays, but the history of— the history that Willie Mays was such a large part of. And I think about— I think about that, I think about his career, and I think about the way that we’ve talked about some of the— some of the icons of the baseball world that we’ve lost since we started doing this podcast. And one of the things that we appreciate and admire, and love, and respect the most about baseball is its history. It’s a game that’s steeped in its history, steeped deeply in its history. And that’s something that, I think, when done well adds a lot of value to the present. You can appreciate historical significance of things and it can put into perspective what we’re seeing now and everything that led us to this point. And when I envision baseball history, I envision it as this weaved thread, everything weaved together by the different strands of players, and teams, and places, and communities. And sometimes I think of it more like a chain, you know? And Willie Mays maybe the biggest link in the chain from baseball past through baseball present, into baseball’s future. He is the type of star, he is the type of player, the quintessential five-tool player that makes baseball sensational, and unique, and something that we love. And it’s up to baseball media, it’s up to baseball fans, it’s up to baseball communities, it’s up to Major League Baseball, the brand, to reinforce that chain and make sure that his legacy is properly acknowledged. And make sure— and I think that they’ve done a good job of that. I think that this event, this game at Rickwood Field this past week, but also just his standing in Cooperstown, his standing across different organizations, across Major League Baseball. You know, I think of the Mets, I think of what the Cohens have done to retire his number and reinforce his legacy for the New York Mets. Even though he didn’t play for very long there, he came back and was honored as a legendary figure of New York baseball. Because I think a lot of people just thought of his career as taking place in San Francisco, but he was with the Giants before they moved. He was part of a huge expansion, but also his roots were in New York, and those roots are very deep in New York, and in his community of Harlem and, you know, his legacy of playing stickball while walking to the Polo Grounds. All of those things and— and the Mets retiring has number commemorated that. I realized I’ve just been talking for, like, seven straight minutes about— just dumping all of my thoughts about this past week. But when you lose someone this big, it’s like you’re just catching it from all angles. You’re just catching— like, there’s no way you can go. It’s almost like the sun doesn’t set on Willie Mays’ empire in the baseball world. And so this past week, I’ve just been delighted— delighted, but saddened. You know, it’s bittersweet to be awash in his legacy.
ALEX: Yeah. I mean— well said. I— I don’t think there’s any way that you can kind of singularly capture the importance he’s had on the game, beyond just a sort of endless stream of— of thoughts, right? Because he’s so ubiquitous. He’s so woven into the fabric of the sport. And— and for a while— and— and this is still kind of the case, he was sort of a stand-in for, like, the idea of baseball, right?
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: And he was— he was the sport. I mean, he— everyone knows about the basket catch, right? That’s kind of one of the first things you learn as, like, a kid growing up. It’s like, you know—
BOBBY: He has the game’s most famous play.
ALEX: Yes. And also, he likes to say that was not even his best catch. He did that all the time during the regular season.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Like, he would downplay that. And— and yet, it’s one of those things that you did on the— on the field as a kid, right? It was like, “Watch my backflip and watch my Mays catch.”
BOBBY: How good were you at them?
ALEX: At the Mays catch?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Not very good, but I wasn’t— I wasn’t an outfielder. You know, it’s a lot less—
BOBBY: I was such a bad outfielder.
ALEX: It’s a lot less interesting when you’re doing it at a second base, you know, on the pop-up. They’re like, “Why are you turning around to catch the ball when it’s—”
BOBBY: Right, exactly.
ALEX: “You don’t need to do that.”
BOBBY: Just let the right fielder get that one.
ALEX: Yeah. You know, he’s— he’s memorialized in John Fogerty’s Centerfield, right? One of the quintessential, like, baseball songs that sort of tries to capture that— that magic of playing baseball as a kid. As was pointed out in the New York Times obituary for him, he was frequently referenced in the comic strip, Peanuts, Charlie Brown, with whom I feel a— a kindred spirit. Loved Willie Mays, and would like bring him up all the time in his— and so it’s just like a— I feel like a testament to a time when baseball was actually bleeding into other parts of the culture in a somewhat meaningful way.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: And Mays was that touchpoint for a lot of folks. I love reading about his participation in the Home Run Derby TV show, which they televised for one year. It was like a weekly TV show, where baseball stars would come on and do a Home Run Derby. And so, he—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —and he was one of the most, like, recurring characters, I suppose you could say, because he was really good and one— and so he would be invited back next week, right? And he’s playing alongside guys like Hank Aaron and Mickey Mantle. And— like that Mickey Mantle.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like, and—
BOBBY: And that Hank Aaron.
ALEX: And that Hank Aaron, right? He’s also pretty well-celebrated in Japan and was among the players who sort of— when doing tours over there in the 1950s, helped sort of elevate the popularity of the sport there. So, like, it’s really impossible to distill down the importance of him—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —into just a few sentences or anything like that. But I feel like the best way to sort of recognize is important to see all the ways he touched the sport off the field, and the culture off the field.
BOBBY: I mean, you listen to people up and down the baseball world, players, broadcasters, journalists, fans. It doesn’t even matter what category you’re trying to pick and choose from, say that Willie Mays was the person who made them get— who got them into baseball. And I think it’s— it’s so fascinating because it’s— it’s— it’s a lot about him as a player, watching him as a player and what he could do. This is a guy who hit 660 home runs, 660 home runs. He started his career on a field that was like 480 to left center. And he’s a right-handed hitter.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know? Granted, it was 287 down the line, but I don’t think every single home run that he hit when he played at the Polo Grounds was a dead pole. Not the way that baseball was played back then, at least.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: But this is also a guy who could do everything. His most famous play is a defensive play. He stole bases at a time when the game desperately needed an infusion of athleticism and bang, bang excitement.
ALEX: Right. I think most outfield put outs in history.
BOBBY: Exactly. So he had the arm, and the five tools as well. And also at the same time, you know, he wasn’t called “The Say Hey Kid” for nothing. He had this unbelievable smile, he had this youthful joy the way that he went about the game. You know, when I’m— when you mentioned the basket catch and you say— and he says, “I used to do that all the time.” Like, that’s funny.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That’s— that’s a guy who understands the swagger that his talent can afford him. And you watch some of the highlights, and granted, this is like— these are truly really old timey highlights. It’s like shot on film, black and white. You know, you don’t get— he didn’t play into the hugely televised 1980s, ’90s, and 20— and 2000s. But his final season was 1973. This is the season that the Mets met the A’s in the World Series. Like, we have television highlights of him playing and I know we’re— we’re talking a lot about the basket catch, but you watch some of his— also the highlights and it’s like he’s just kind of fucking around a little bit out there, because he knows he’s so good.
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: He can catch line drives and pop flies underhand because he just has such a— a control and a— and a grasp on— on his talents. And— I mean, talk about someone who maximize those talents. But, again, off the field, this is somebody who clearly deeply cared about the game of baseball. He is not someone who really waded into politics or social issues very much publicly. Granted, situationally, he was kind of forced into— into particularly race in America. This is someone who started his baseball career right after integration. Not immediately after, but a few years after integration and while the league was still being fully integrated. So this is not to say that he had no opinions on this. Of course, he had opinions on this, but he is someone who wanted to play for the love of the game and play at the highest level. And who dreamt of playing at Rickwood Field from the time that he was a child. And said that if he could play there, then that would be as satisfying an outcome to his baseball playing life as ever. And look— look at where that brought him. You know, look at the heights that that brought him. And it’s almost— I think that the largest compliment that I can pay him, I think it’s impossible to imagine another career ever approaching his, because of the way the game has changed, because of the way that our relationship to the game as a culture has changed. But his combination of talent and hard work, longevity, and cultural relevance will likely never be seen again.
ALEX: Completely agree. I mean, it does feel like a sort of end of an era for baseball, because he was the sort of bridge between old and new. You pointed out his relationship to Barry Bonds and so many players today, from Mookie to Trout, to Griffey, like sight Mays as one of their inspirations as a base— baseball player. One of the—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: —people who they looked up to. And so to lose a figure like him, yeah, it feels like a sort of, I don’t know, tectonic shift in the history of baseball. I don’t know. We’re— we’re all far better fans and far better people for him having graced our sport.
BOBBY: Agreed. I feel lucky that he played baseball, you know?
ALEX: Uh-huh. Yeah.
BOBBY: Because he probably could have played any sport.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Do you think—
ALEX: Because he played— he played basketball growing up as well. Like—
BOBBY: Right. He played a lot of sports growing up. And this is like— I know we— we joke about this a lot, but like when you talk about someone like Jackie Robbins, when you talk about someone like Willie Mays, they’re growing up— they’re like four-sport athletes. You know, Jackie at UCLA could have gone to the Olympics as a sprinter.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And they just decided to play baseball.
ALEX: To play— to play the sport.
BOBBY: Like, this dumb sport.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: This frustrating sport. But honestly, this deeply human sport, and I think that the humans that they are allowed us— that clarified what baseball is, you know? Like, it’s— it’s almost impossible to comprehend what baseball is, the humanity behind it, the passion behind it, the— the frustration behind it, without thinking about these transcendent figures like Willie Mays, who put it into perspective just how good someone could be at it. Because then you’re like, “Well, damn. I’m never going to be Willie Mays.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know? Like, “But I can— I can try. I can dream.” And that’s like— that’s what baseball is. I could go up to the plate, and I can dream that I will get a hit, but most likely I will not.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So, obviously, RIP, rest in peace to one of the greatest, if not the greatest baseball players of all-time. I think the baseball world will feel the ripple effects of— of this loss, but also of his life for a long time to come. Why don’t we take a quick break? Because there’s no good segue that we could have out of this. And when we come back, we’re going to do a handful of listener questions. We’re gonna play a couple audio clips for you. And then we will also place two new sponsors, two long awaited sponsors, Alex, in our Most Evil Jersey Patch Rankings.
SPEAKER 3: So say hey, Willie, tell the Cobb and Joe DiMaggio. Don’t say it ain’t so. You know the time is now.
BOBBY: Okay. Two new teams. They sewed those patches onto those jerseys this past week. Well, the last couple of weeks, really. We’ve been kind of tied up doing another stuff. Our first pod back together in—
ALEX: In person, yeah.
BOBBY: —in a month, month or so? You feel the energy. There’s a little—
ALEX: I feel it, it’s crackling between us.
BOBBY: [22:16] in the room.
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: This brings us up to 20 jersey patches now, right? 21. 21 of 30 teams.
ALEX: 21.
BOBBY: Who are the nine teams that are holding out?
ALEX: That’s a great— you’re going— you’re about to see how many baseball teams I can actually name. The A’s don’t have one— the— I guess I can go divisionally.
BOBBY: I think underneath I wrote all the teams that don’t have one.
ALEX: God. You’re such a good producer. The Nats don’t have one. The Rays don’t have one.
BOBBY: I don’t think the Angels have one.
ALEX: The Angels don’t have one. The Mariners don’t have one.
BOBBY: Based—
ALEX: Phillies don’t have one.
BOBBY: Oh, they’ll get one soon.
ALEX: Twins don’t have one.
BOBBY: That’s sick. They’re gonna put the Joe Biden patch on [23:08]
ALEX: Yeah, I know. They do.
BOBBY: Just really trying to get Joe reelected.
ALEX: No Rockies, no White Sox, no Cubs.
BOBBY: That’s 10. You just need 10. Whatever.
ALEX: I— so there’s roughly 20 teams do have a jersey patch.
BOBBY: 20 teams, give or take. Some teams have a jersey patch.
ALEX: Oh, the— the Angels do have one.
BOBBY: Oh, they do?
ALEX: FBM, bro.
BOBBY: Oh, right. Sorry. I’m so sorry to Arte Moreno. Those checks are still coming through. Don’t worry. I know he’s a valued listener of this pod. Okay. The Pirates and the Orioles got jersey patches this past week.
ALEX: Yes, they did.
BOBBY: And we’re gonna talk about those jersey patches. And we are going to slot them into our ranking of the Most Evil Jersey Patches. As a reminder, if you have not listened to that episode of this podcast, it is some of the greatest work that we have ever done. I suggest you go back and listen to it. It was the most fun I’ve ever had doing an episode of this podcast. It is— number one is the most evil. Okay? And number 21, now in this case, is the least evil. I’m— I’m not trying to spoil anything, but I believe that both of those will be unchanged by these two additions. So the least evil right now is the New York Mets. They are sponsored by New York Presbyterian Hospital. Those people are fucking saving lives.
ALEX: Yes, they are.
BOBBY: Okay? The New York Mets are saving lives. The most evil is the Houston Astros, will be the New York Mets opponent next weekend on Pride night. Wow. Coincidence?
ALEX: Hmm. Fascinating.
BOBBY: I think not.
ALEX: Fascinating.
BOBBY: Coincidence? I think not. Their jersey sponsor is a little company called Oxy.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: What do they do, Alex?
ALEX: [24:42] a cheeky little rebrand from them, to name it after a different product—
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: —that’s ruining society. No. Better known as Occidental Petroleum.
BOBBY: Yes. And they— they dig up petroleum.
ALEX: They dig up petroleum. That’s—
BOBBY: One other thing that they do is they transport that petroleum in pipelines.
ALEX: That’s true.
BOBBY: Do they have anything to do with weapons manufacturing, too? Or is that— no?
ALEX: I— probably. I mean, don’t fossil fuels make like most products?
BOBBY: That’s true.
ALEX: That’s like— it’s kind of the foundation of a lot of things.
BOBBY: Honestly— yo, when I realized that fossil fuels created plastic.
ALEX: Yeah. Uh-huh.
BOBBY: That sent me on like a three-week spiral.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I’m— when I was like 16. I’m not saying like I didn’t—
ALEX: Right [25:28] yesterday, yeah.
BOBBY: —realize this like, last week. And I was like, “Oh, okay.”
ALEX: But it’s like, “Oh, that— that hill we have to climb just got that much bigger.”
BOBBY: Right, exactly. It went from like Kilimanjaro to Everest.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Okay. Without further ado, let’s do it. Which team do you want to do first?
ALEX: Let’s do the Pirates first.
BOBBY: Okay. The Pittsburgh Pirates have chosen Sheetz Incorporated, Alex. Sheetz Incorporated. Sheetz Incorporated is an American chain of convenience stores and coffee shops. That’s a stretch. Owned by the Sheetz family. The stores sell custom food, beverages and convenience store items with all locations having offered 24/7 services since the 1980s. Sheetz is not a member of the Fortune 500, though they did clear $7.2 billion in revenue—
ALEX: Good for them.
BOBBY: —in 2023. Headquartered in Altoona, Pennsylvania, they have 700 stores located in Central and Western Pennsylvania, not Eastern, though. Not Eastern PA. You know why? Because fucking— that’s Wawa territory, brother.
ALEX: That’s Wawa territory, yeah.
BOBBY: I feel like the Philies—
ALEX: The [26:34]
BOBBY: I feel like the Phillies are gonna do Wawa now.
ALEX: They ha— I mean, they absolutely have to.
BOBBY: They kind of believe to do it. I mean, we— we’ll cross that bridge when it comes to it. West Virginia, Maryland, Ohio, Virginia, and North Carolina, with plans to expand to Michigan. Sheetz and Wawa are like Coke and Pepsi. Okay? What are two other products that are like that? I don’t know. 7Up and Sprite?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I— I know more than just sodas.
ALEX: Dude, that’s—
BOBBY: I do. They’re like the Mets and the Yankees.
ALEX: Oh.
BOBBY: I refuse to say which is which?
ALEX: Like— like Mac and PC, you know? Like—
BOBBY: Great one.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Great one.
ALEX: They’re—
BOBBY: They’re like Apple and Android.
ALEX: Yep. Uh-huh.
BOBBY: And— and they stay off each other’s turf, that— which is why—
ALEX: Like Fruit of the Loom and — and Gildan.
BOBBY: These are [27:19]
ALEX: That’s true.
BOBBY: Gildan—
ALEX: Gildan.
BOBBY: Wow. Big shouts for Gildan. Sheetz is a gas station, and it has a deli and an convenience store inside, just like Wawa. Wawa started— I think they both started as convenience stores, and then they added gas, because what else would you do?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: As America continues to be centered around cars. Yeah, Sheetz is in Western PA and they expand more into the Midwest. And Wawa is in Eastern PA and they expand more on the Eastern Seaboard. Like the DC area, they have locations in Florida as well. New Jersey is Wawa country. Sheetz is bad.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: It’s a disaster. Their food is hardly edible.
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: Last time I was in a Sheetz, I stopped in there because there was nowhere else to stop. And they had gas, I was driving through Pennsylvania, which is a tough sit. And I went over and I got their coffee, their hot coffee, which comes out of a ma— like a machine that you have to press buttons on. It’s very similar— I feel very similarly to that as Michael Baumann feels about SodaStream, which you have to press buttons and stuff. And I got my coffee and I was like, “All right, great. They had no lids.” So then I just have this gigantic hot coffee, no lid. Is this an anecdotal experience? Yes.
ALEX: Sounds like a skill issue.
BOBBY: Is this cons— whose skill are we talking about?
ALEX: I just— what are you afraid of spilling your coffee?
BOBBY: While driving? Yeah. I— that’s a pretty fearful thing. I wouldn’t want my coffee to go everywhere. Imagine you get into a fucking little fender bender and you have third-degree burns now. Okay?
ALEX: All right. Fair. I— my favorite part about their Wikipedia page is just at the very top, not to be confused with Sheetz, you know, like bedsheets? I think that’s happened before [29:08]
BOBBY: That’s what I was gonna read it to you.
ALEX: Oh, damn it.
BOBBY: No, it’s great. You crushed it. Do I think that’s ever happened before?
ALEX: Like, is there someone who was like looking for bedsheets and was like—
BOBBY: And they’re like, “I can’t find them. I’m not—”
ALEX: —”Hang on. I’m really confused.” What do you mean bedsheets are 24/7 convenience store?
BOBBY: That’s all I got on Sheetz. The place kind of stinks, but it is a staple of Western PA, just like the Pittsburgh Pirates. So I’m— I’m not mad at the choice. Now all that being said, where would you put Sheetz on our list of the jersey sponsors ranked by how evil they are?
ALEX: It’s a great question, Bobby. Some say the reason we’re here today. I will say in my— in my cursory research, the history of Sheetz. I did see that they are currently being sued by the federal government for—
BOBBY: Badge of honor?
ALEX: —discrimination—
BOBBY: Ooh.
ALEX: —in their hiring practice.
BOBBY: Never mind. I take that back.
ALEX: Because they— because I think they were basically tossing anyone who had any sort of like criminal history, which is like disproportionately discriminating against black Native American or multiracial job seekers. So not great.
BOBBY: Yeah, it’s not good.
ALEX: That said, it’s tough because you have some offenses on this list.
BOBBY: You’ve already decided to place Meyer and Kwik Trip— Meyer and Kwik Trip are— were 18th and 17th out of 19—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —on our original list. And Sheetz is just kind of in the Meyer and Kwik Trip zone.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: In terms of company structure. For some insane reason, you decided to place Kroger at 14th.
ALEX: You say you decided, like I’m the only one who had a stake in this.
BOBBY: I was advocating for them to be like 6th.
ALEX: You could’ve moved them up.
BOBBY: I tried. You had them at 18 to start. I feel like I bumped those numbers up pretty good.
ALEX: Where— all right. Well—
BOBBY: FBM is somehow more evil than Kroger.
ALEX: Oh, the FBM [31:11] all right. Well, at— at risk—
BOBBY: Centered around nails and fucking two by fours. I don’t know what they did.
ALEX: At— at risk of diluting this rip— this list even more, then why don’t you— where would you put them—
BOBBY: I think I would put them—
ALEX: —big— big guy?
BOBBY: I— I would put them like— this is—
ALEX: Yeah, not so fucking easy, is it?
BOBBY: I would put them 15th— no. 16th. I would put them between Avnet and Motorola.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: I think they’re less evil than Motor— sorry. Less evil than Avnet, more evil than Motorola. This is like when you take the SAT. It’s like you have to put things— if this is like this, then this is like that.
ALEX: Right. Yeah.
BOBBY: What do you think about that? I think Sheetz is more evil than Kwik Trip and Meyer. I still don’t know what Meyer is. And Kwik—
ALEX: No. Yeah.
BOBBY: And Kwik Trip is like Sheetz but smaller.
ALEX: Right. So can’t possibly be as evil, just like impact-wise.
BOBBY: Hold on—
ALEX: Or— wait, no. Kwik Trip— wait. Sheetz is smaller than Kwik Trip?
BOBBY: I think Kwik Trip is smaller than Sheetz.
ALEX: Oh, right.
BOBBY: But I could be wrong. Hold on, I’m looking at their locations.
ALEX: Ne— by the way, next week’s episode is going to be us in each of these locations, talking to the real Americans.
BOBBY: I don’t think the people at Sheetz would want to talk to you. Ooh, Kwik Trip has 400 more locations— no, sorry. 300 more locations. However, they were ranked as one of the 100 Best Companies to Work For.
ALEX: Sheetz, or Kwik Trip?
BOBBY: Kwik Trip in 2006. I think Sheetz is more evil than Kwik Trip.
ALEX: I think we should start our own publication that ranks places to work.
BOBBY: I agree.
ALEX: Just so we can get our name on one of these lists.
BOBBY: I feel like we could have a whole podcast just doing this.
ALEX: Just doing this ranking?
BOBBY: Every company.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, this could be our power broker.
ALEX: Our Buy Woke-Free.
BOBBY: I was gonna say like our life’s work. Like, every time every week someone submits a new company and we place them into our running list. We have like a whole composite score.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: You know, like how Forbes has their composite scores for how fucking important companies are or whatever.
ALEX: Don’t joke about this, because I’ll— there’s nothing I love more than like a z score, bro.
BOBBY: If you think I’m joking, I— it’s like you’ve never even met me before.
ALEX: I know. I know. It’s like we haven’t done seven years of this podcast together.
BOBBY: It’s like we don’t have 700 recorded hours of speaking to each other.
ALEX: I— I like that placement.
BOBBY: Okay. I don’t remember what it was.
ALEX: It— it—
BOBBY: It was 16th, right.
ALEX: It was 16th between Avnet and Motorola.
BOBBY: Because we have Motorola and Avnet.
ALEX: I was kind of toying with Motorola. I don’t— I don’t know if Sheetz is more evil than Motorola. I just— there’s—
BOBBY: You have to remember, it’s just Motorola, the phone company.
ALEX: True. It’s not Motorola Solutions.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: The surveillance company.
BOBBY: Yes. It’s just Motorola, just—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —the ones who make Razrs.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Not the ones who are providing the [34:19]
ALEX: The [34:19] exactly.
BOBBY: Easy— easy mistake to make, frankly.
ALEX: That’s fair. That’s fair.
BOBBY: And if you’re listening at home, I don’t blame you.
ALEX: I get them confused all the time.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly.
ALEX: All right. So I see you— you are writing it in at 17 now?
BOBBY: I’m just saying how it feels.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: I think it feels right there. Oh, no, no. Oh, sorry. I put it in the wrong spot.
ALEX: That’s where I was a little confused by that.
BOBBY: Pay no attention to the man putting it in the wrong place. I still don’t know what Avnet does.
ALEX: I don’t know.
BOBBY: They’re like a software company. I just know that Ken Kendrick chose them, and that feels bad to me.
ALEX: They’re— oh, right. They’re a supply chain and logistics, bro.
BOBBY: They’re on the— they’re on the Fortune 500, number 163.
ALEX: Oh.
BOBBY: Oh, this was the Charles Avnet guy, the 33-year-old Russian-Jewish immigrant. And he started by buying radio parts. Remember I talked for like 40 minutes about him—
ALEX: Yeah, you milked [35:08] this.
BOBBY: —during World War Two?
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: He made antennas for the US Armed Forces.
ALEX: Yep.
BOBBY: His son Lester joined the business around that time, in case you weren’t— in case you wanted to know.
ALEX: I had forgotten that fact.
BOBBY: All right.
ALEX: But I appreciate you refreshing my memory. All right.
BOBBY: Oh, in March 2019, Avnet announced it was working with blockchain payment provider BitPay to accept cryptocurrency as payment for products and services.
ALEX: About fucking time, too. I’ve been trying to pay like that for years with them.
BOBBY: Top three places that you pay BitPay, pay with BitPay. X, the Everything App.
ALEX: Right. Matt Yglesias newsletter.
BOBBY: Okay, great. That’s number three. Fucking Matty— Matty [35:50] you know?
ALEX: That, and then just to powered appliance.
BOBBY: Hmm. Oh.
ALEX: Marketplaces.
BOBBY: Samsung.
ALEX: Yeah. Well, Samsung and then there’s another one, that’s— but I’m not gonna put y’all on to that one.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: That’s my secret.
BOBBY: Where would Starbucks slot? I know you go there every day.
ALEX: Yeah. Unfortunately, they don’t accept my BitPay yet, so— okay. Sheetz, Between Avnet and Motorola.
BOBBY: Great.
ALEX: 16th on this list. That would make it the fifth least Evil Jersey Patch sponsor.
BOBBY: Congrats to Bob Nutting finishing fifth to worst once again.
ALEX: Well, that’s fifth to best.
BOBBY: Right. True.
ALEX: Once again—
BOBBY: Congrats to Bob Nutting finishing in fifth again.
ALEX: —months after doing this, we still cannot get right what is first and what is last.
BOBBY: Fuck. That’s really annoying, because that’s a much funnier joke if I said, “Congrats to Bob Nutting for finishing fifth again.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Goddamn it. Goddamn it.
ALEX: Cut it out. I’ll pretend like you didn’t say anything.
BOBBY: This is— no. So this is the level of transparency we’re coming to you with.
ALEX: I know, yeah.
BOBBY: We’re working it out in real time. This is basically like we’re doing a 15-minute set at the Comedy Cellar—
ALEX: Exactly. Yeah.
BOBBY: —before our Netflix special. The Netflix, of course, being our pod with A-Rod.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Okay. That takes us to our next jersey sponsor, the Baltimore Orioles. This one’s perfect. Just for the whole New Orleans vibe.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Baltimore Orioles have sewed a patch on to their jersey, to advertise for the company, T. Rowe Price. T. Rowe Price Group Incorporated is an American publicly owned global investment management firm that offers funds, subadvisory services, separate account management, and retirement plans and services for individuals, institutions, and financial intermediaries. The firm has assets under management of more than 1.51 trillion and annual revenues of 6.48 billion as of 2023, placing at 537 on the Fortune 1000. Didn’t crack the top 500.
ALEX: Work harder.
BOBBY: Headquartered at 100 East Pratt Street in Baltimore, Maryland. It has nearly 8,000 employees across 17 international offices serving clients in 55 countries. The firm was founded in 1937 by Thomas Rowe Price, Jr. I’m going to refer to them by their government name, Thomas Rowe Price.
ALEX: Thomas Rowe Price.
BOBBY: Okay. So we got another— we got another investment firm.
ALEX: [38:20]
BOBBY: How do you even— how do you judge this?
ALEX: It’s one of these things where the fact that there is nothing out there on them makes me more skeptical, you know?
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
ALEX: I’m like, what are you hiding?
BOBBY: Yeah. Right.
ALEX: You’re a wealth management fund that doesn’t have a controversy section on your Wikipedia.
BOBBY: Maybe they’re trying to hide the fact that they’re getting great returns for their 401K’s.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And—
ALEX: Which is something famously you want to hide as a wealth management fund, that your fund performs as well.
BOBBY: You don’t want— they— they want to be the boring ones, you know? They don’t want to be like Bernie Madoff. They attract all the attention for the wrong reasons. Just to remind people, we have a little bit of a car crash in the middle of our list here of mutual funds, investment funds in [39:05]
ALEX: Yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: I’m going to read you number nine through number 12. The Milwaukee Brewers with Northwestern Mutual, the Boston Red Sox with MassMutual, the Miami Marlins with ADT, that’s home security, and 12 is the Toronto Blue Jays with TD Bank. We got a lot of feedback on that TD Bank segment, by the way, because we kept talking about TD Bank thinking that it was the same as the TD Bank here, but apparently, they have like separately headquartered Canadian TD Bank, and that’s the one that’s— I think it’s the same.
ALEX: That sounds same to me.
BOBBY: They have the same name and logo. Same to me. So where would you slot T. Rowe Price among— among this list?
ALEX: Once again, a great question.
BOBBY: Thank you.
ALEX: So interestingly, actually, you know the Carlyle Group?
BOBBY: I— I’m— I’m familiar with the Carlyle Group.
ALEX: Founded one by one David Rubenstein.
BOBBY: Exactly. Founding member, Carlyle Group.
ALEX: Now—
BOBBY: [40:06] where they were—
ALEX: Now owner—
BOBBY: —two weeks before 9/11.
[laughter]
ALEX: Now owner of the Baltimore Orioles. The Carlyle Group was actually founded in part with an investment from one T— sorry, Thomas Rowe Price.
BOBBY: Fascinating. And look how far they’ve come. They leapfrogged them.
ALEX: So— so they make their way back.
BOBBY: Yeah. But the Carlyle Group manages, like, way more money.
ALEX: No, I do. Yeah— yes, they do.
BOBBY: Wow, Freudian slip. You are the Carlyle Group. I always knew that you were moonlighting for them.
ALEX: Oh.
BOBBY: Do you think that listeners at home can tell when the podcast becomes just like a little unhinged? Like, when we start doing segments like this, do you think they can tell like, “Oh—”
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: “An energy has shifted?”
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: Because we start sounding more confident.
BOBBY: Who out— who out there is doing it better than us when it comes to—
ALEX: Who’s doing—
BOBBY: —ranking the jersey sponsors?
ALEX: T. Rowe Price has moved from passive management to active management—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: —of investments.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm. That’s when you really start to lose them.
ALEX: That’s— yeah. I was like, “I’m a— I’m more of a passive income guy.”
BOBBY: Person.
Alex Passive person. Also true. I’m the—
BOBBY: What—
ALEX: —passive management of Tipping Pitches and you’re the active management.
[laughter]
BOBBY: What is the difference between passive and active management?
ALEX: I think active management is like you are the one selecting your portfolio and— of investments.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: And passive—
BOBBY: Passive means like I can go on to T. Rowe Price and they choose what to do with them.
ALEX: I’ve— uh-hmm. Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s about a 50/50 shot as to whether you got that right.
ALEX: Yep. And someone will let me know. But I do think like passive is more meant to like track the broader, like— you know, it— it will be like ETF funds like index funds. Like things—
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: —that are tracking the broader performance of the market, you know?
BOBBY: Explain to me what the ETF fund does.
ALEX: So it’s an— you asked me this like six months ago, you remember this, right?
BOBBY: I do, yeah.
ALEX: And I got it wrong, then. I don’t remember that much.
BOBBY: Uh-huh. I’m over here on Investopedia, so—
ALEX: Oh.
BOBBY: —I’m working with the facts.
ALEX: The Investopedia guy.
BOBBY: Yeah. ETF fund for beginners.
ALEX: I don’t even know that it’s worth trying to guess if I’m— if I’m being honest.
BOBBY: Exchange—
ALEX: —because I think I’m gonna— I’m gonna say the same thing I said last time.
BOBBY: —Traded Fund— yeah, last time you said electronic.
ALEX: Electronic. Yep. That’s what I was gonna say this time. Cool.
BOBBY: You’re nothing if not consistent.
ALEX: I’m nothing if not a millennial boy. I see the word E and I’m—
BOBBY: An exchange-traded fund is a pooled investment security that can be bought and sold like an individual stock. ETFs can be structured to track anything from the price of a commodity to a large and diverse collection of securities. ETFs can even be designed to track specific investment strategies. Various types of ETFs are available to investors for income generation, speculation, and price increases, and to hedge or partly offset risk in an investor’s portfolio.
ALEX: I don’t know anything you just said.
BOBBY: So you— an ETF is basically like this is a group of things.
ALEX: Right. Yes.
BOBBY: So the S&P 500, for example, you can trade on—
ALEX: On— on the—
BOBBY: —the S&P 500 as an ETF.
ALEX: Right. If you just want to trade on the actual stock market.
BOBBY: Here’s a question.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Could I pool all of the stocks of the jersey sponsors and trade them as an ETF?
ALEX: I mean, yes, you could.
BOBBY: Did you make this joke when we did this pod a few months ago?
ALEX: I think we— I think we discussed it when we did it, yes.
BOBBY: Phenomenal. Phenomenal.
ALEX: We’re— we’re firmly in retreading jokes territory.
BOBBY: It’s working really well for Jerry Seinfeld at the moment.
ALEX: Okay. T. Rowe Price.
BOBBY: Okay. Dun, dun, dun.
ALEX: I’m feeling— hmm.
BOBBY: And saying that Quikrete is number six on this list. What did they ever do to you?
ALEX: I was going big with, like, environmental impact when we were making this list.
BOBBY: You really were?
ALEX: I still feel vindicated by that.
BOBBY: You’re an environmental anarchist.
ALEX: I— I am.
BOBBY: That’s what you are.
ALEX: I don’t know. I’m feeling maybe like a— like a light seven.
BOBBY: So you think they’re—
ALEX: I— it’s in like the seven to 10 range, I think.
BOBBY: Fascinating. So for some reason, you think they’re more evil than Northwestern Mutual, MassMutual, and TD Bank?
ALEX: Well, I—
BOBBY: What about them— that’s— what about them makes them more evil than the other financial companies on this list?
ALEX: That’s a great question.
BOBBY: Is it the ETFs?
ALEX: It— frankly, I was more—
BOBBY: It’s your speculation about them not having a controversy [44:40]
ALEX: Kind of. I’m— I’m fascinated with our rationale of— of bumping down Stifle and Guggenheim, also Wealth Management funds.
BOBBY: Oh, I see. I don’t remember the rationale for that. Guggenheim, I definitely remember it just being so huge.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That we were like, “There’s no way there’s anything good going on here.”
ALEX: So you’re— so you’re advocating for T. Rowe Price, it sounds like. You think they’re, what, like top 10— or bottom 10, I guess?
BOBBY: I think that they’re just somewhere closer to like— honestly, I would probably split the difference between Northwestern and MassMutual.
ALEX: Put them at 10.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly. That’s probably what I would do.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: But then again, I’m all for anything that will continue to move Chevrolet down the list, because I think that they’re doing great stuff for the people of America.
ALEX: They’re good. Yes. Yeah.
BOBBY: Yes. So we can put them right behind Starr Insurance. I just don’t know why the other mutual funds are so low then at that point.
ALEX: All right. All right, fine. Put them at—
BOBBY: And what is—
ALEX: Put them at 11.
BOBBY: How did TD Bank slip all the way down to number 12?
ALEX: That— well, because I didn’t know we were talking about the Canadian TD. American TD Bank, I’m all for.
BOBBY: Okay. So I’m putting them at 11?
ALEX: Sure. Yeah.
BOBBY: I don’t know.
ALEX: Sure, yeah.
BOBBY: I don’t know. This is—
ALEX: This is—
BOBBY: This feels bad.
ALEX: It does— it doesn’t feel great—
BOBBY: It— it feels bad as I go to type it in. Three days ago on their website, they have an article titled, A New Era for Commodities. And I clicked on it to go read it, thinking that it would let us know whether or not I could invest in, like, water or something. And it says, “We apologize for the inconvenience, but this page has temporarily encountered an issue. Thank you for your patience.”
ALEX: Is that what— did you want to invest in water? Is that what you’re saying? You think that’s the next frontier? You saw Mad Max and you were like, “Fuck, I gotta get along with [46:29]”
BOBBY: Well, I saw that our friends at Walmart, conveniently not on this list because no baseball team has the bravery to allow Walmart to give them money—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —to advertise. I saw that our good friends at Walmart have decided to pivot to all electronic pricing models, so they no longer put a printed out version of the price. They put electronic price pricing next to all of their items. And an industry analyst said that the reason for that is because, quote, if it’s hot outside, we can raise the price of water and ice cream.
ALEX: How are you going to break news to me like that, like 40 minutes into this episode?
BOBBY: You’re not online enough anymore.
ALEX: I know. I know.
BOBBY: You should see stuff like that.
ALEX: I know, I should. T. Rowe Price was— was among a dozen US financial companies to put language in their annual reports, warning about, quote-unquote, “divergent views” or competing demands around ESG investing.
BOBBY: I don’t know what that is.
ALEX: It’s environmental, social and governance invest—
BOBBY: Oh, oh, oh.
ALEX: It’s like what is come into Vogue—
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
ALEX: —in the last couple years, because companies were like, “We need to make it look like we’re doing stuff.” And then everyone got mad at them and was like, “Well, now, black— BlackRock is woke and so they were like, “Whoa. We gotta tone it back a little bit.”
BOBBY: BlackRock is woke.
ALEX: They are— I— if they’re not on Buy Woke-Free yet, someone’s got to get them on there.
BOBBY: All right. This is— for the third time, I have to go to Buy Woke-Free and see if—
ALEX: Jesus.
BOBBY: —BlackRock is on there.
ALEX: We’re arguably giving them too many clicks at this point. Wow. Tesla’s mildly woke, bro.
BOBBY: This is a bad website.
ALEX: Speak for yourself.
BOBBY: What was I just coming here for? Oh, BlackRock. I like how when you search on Buy Woke-Free, it opens a whole different tab. They’re not on here, either. T. Rowe Price feels bad.
ALEX: Well, I— I agree. You advocated to bump them up the— or down the list. You advocated to bump them in one of the directions.
BOBBY: Apparently, Thomas, Thomas Rowe Price, Jr., you know, the founder of T. Rowe Price.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Became well-known as, quote, “The father of growth— growth investing,” and was nicknamed, quote, “The sage of Baltimore.” That’s pretty cool. That’s actually pretty cool. Oh, I have their— I have their board of directors here. Let’s see if we recognize any of these names. Mark Bartlett, you know him from Ernest— Ernst & Young?
ALEX: Yeah, Markie B.? [49:10]
BOBBY: Yeah. Nah. Oh, actually, they have someone— someone on their board of directors is of interest to you, Robert J. Stevens, former chairman and CEO of Lockheed Martin.
ALEX: Also extremely woke.
BOBBY: That’s kind of like par for the course.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I don’t know. I don’t know. This feels like a toss-up. You think they should be eighth and I think they should be 10th. So why don’t we just put them—
ALEX: Ninth? Good work. That’s consensus building right there. Wow, right below— or above Chevrolet.
BOBBY: I just think it’s so crazy that you put Chevrolet there. There’s just no way that Chevrolet is less evil than Kroger.
ALEX: Yeah, but Kroger is woke, according to Buy Woke-Free.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Kroger— Kroger and Marathon, the only two Jersey sponsors on buywokefree.com. I just want to point it out.
BOBBY: Is marathon woke as well?
ALEX: Mildly.
BOBBY: Mildly woke. Okay. Well, now that we’ve cleared that up.
ALEX: Look, do you want to put— you want to put Chevrolet number one right now?
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: You want to— I— sorry. Number 21 right now?
[laughter]
BOBBY: I think we need to move on, frankly.
ALEX: I think we need—
BOBBY: Okay. We’ve added T. Rowe Price. They’re the new number nine. They’re the ninth most evil jersey sponsor. And we have added Sheetz. They’re the 17th most evil jersey sponsor. We will publish this list, like we did not last time on our Twitter account— sorry, on our X, the everything app account. Would you like to—
ALEX: Didn’t you— didn’t you determine that’s not what it’s called? Is it not the everything app?
BOBBY: It’s the everything app, not the everything platform.
ALEX: Oh, I see. I see, I see.
BOBBY: Which is what I had been saying, X, the everything— everything— no. Ah, fuck.
ALEX: Oh, what is it?
BOBBY: Like, it’s the everything platform.
ALEX: Dude, I saw a Cybertruck in the wild the other day.
BOBBY: I see them all the time.
ALEX: What?
BOBBY: There’s— there’s—
ALEX: What are you talking about? There’s like 300 of them in the country.
BOBBY: I’ve seen them everywhere recently. There’s one that parks on Lincoln, on Lincoln’s—
ALEX: No way.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: It’s— it looks remarkably stupid.
BOBBY: It looks so bad.
ALEX: It’s really cool being like, “I found— found the village idiot.”
BOBBY: I shake my head every— I just shake my head in disgust every time I walk past one. So everyone [51:27] around me on the street knows that I disapprove.
ALEX: I actually literally did that. I, like, took a picture of it because I was like, “I need to take a picture of this.” And then I like— I didn’t want people thinking I was, like, taking a picture because it was cool. So I, like, laughed and shook my head as I walked away. I’m like, “I need people to make sure they know.”
BOBBY: Where did you see it?
ALEX: It was at Union Square. Bro, bad vibes. Union Square—
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: —Cybertruck, while there was like a pickleball takeover.
BOBBY: Oh, my God.
ALEX: It was— the vibes were rough.
BOBBY: Yeah, I haven’t seen any in Manhattan. Probably because they don’t fit.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: I’ve see— I feel like I’ve seen a few on the road, on the move in Pennsylvania.
ALEX: Oh, my God.
BOBBY: And then I saw—
ALEX: It made it to the Heartland?
BOBBY: Oh, there was one at Citi Field parked in the parking lot. I told you about that.
ALEX: Oh, you did tell me about that. Yeah.
BOBBY: And people were like over there taking selfies with it.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And I have never been less proud to be a Mets fan.
ALEX: So it’s— do you know that these are distinct— like, were there any distinguishing features of the Tesla?
BOBBY: So are you saying like it could have been the same one?
ALEX: Well, I’m saying— so, like, this one has a decal that says “To The Moon” on it. And I actually think I’ve seen that decal on a Cybertruck before. You know, it’s— don’t laugh, I have one on my car, too.
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
ALEX: On my Chevrolet, my Chevy Cruze.
BOBBY: You have never owned a car.
ALEX: So I’m just wondering, right, is it like the same one?
BOBBY: No, I think it’s a different one.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Did you see the Tesla truck that went through the carwash and shut down?
ALEX: I— I read something about that.
BOBBY: And the person got locked inside of it.
ALEX: Yeah. That’s cool. That, actually, I do have to hand that one to Elon. That’s a cool feature.
BOBBY: What, if you take it through a carwash, or if it rains too hard, this truck stops working?
ALEX: Yeah, it locks you inside the car. Sorry.
BOBBY: Apparently, like, fire departments don’t know how to get into it when that happens.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like, the information about how to disable the different features, it’s not disseminated itself across the first responders of America. So you could just die in that thing. Which, honestly, you are just basically paying $80,000 for a coffin.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Or however much it costs.
ALEX: It does kind of look like one.
BOBBY: It— yeah. It does. And it’ll be in the ground one day, just like everybody’s coffins. Okay. Should we do some listener questions?
ALEX: Yeah. Let’s hear some listener questions.
BOBBY: Okay. First question comes from Eric. “We need a segment on the drama that unfolded in the Bronx this week. Judge getting plunked, Wednesday nights nailbiter, Gunnar getting plunked, O’s going about their business to crush on Thursday [54:02] by David Simon’s masterful take”— David Simon, my personal enemy. “Masterful takedown of Yankees Twitter. O’s did this all with the bottom of the rotation, while the Yankees put up their theoretical best.” Would you like to comment on T. Rowe Price’s Baltimore Orioles takedown of the New York Yankees? First of all, beanball remains one of the dumber things that we have in our sport.
ALEX: Yeah, but you got to witness this.
BOBBY: I did.
ALEX: Live.
BOBBY: Yes, I was at the game on Tuesday. This is actually where I was when I found out that Willie Mays has passed. I was sitting in Yankee Stadium, surrounded by Yankees fans. Yankee Stadium is a disaster. It’s a total nightmare. It’s impossible to get into. I got there— first pitch was at 7:05, and I got there at 6:55, and I made it in at 8:00.
ALEX: Wow. Wow.
BOBBY: 8:00, 8:00 is when I sat down at my seat in the third inning. You know why? Because 40,000 people are trying to get into Yankee Stadium and they’re all filing in through one single file line.
ALEX: Did you hear? That’s how they did NYU’s graduation, too.
BOBBY: Yes. I did hear that. I personally blame Hal Steinbrenner for being too cheap to buy more metal detectors.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, it’s— it’s as simple as that, you know? And on the way out, by the way, all coming out of a single file door, one door, like the size of my door. Everybody was coming out of that from the staircase. It’s so crazy. And Yankees fans are so Yankee-pilled that they’re like, “The greatest city, greatest— greatest team on Earth, greatest stadium on Earth. You don’t like it, get here earlier.” It’s like, “Okay. Okay.” I had to do my part and buy 10 Value Chicken Buckets so that the Yankees can afford to extend Juan Soto.
ALEX: That’s good. Thank you for doing that.
BOBBY: You’re welcome. Yankees, they won’t do a— a City Connect, but they will put Starr Insurance on their jersey. Okay. That’s all my thoughts about the Yankees. They did hit Aaron Judge in the hand. That was really unfortunate. Aaron Judge was pissed. He got hit in the hand, and as he did, I noticed this immediately. It looks kind of like he was walking out to the pitcher’s mound. After he got hit, he took— he kind of dropped his bat and, like, he was walking it off, but he took a very roundabout route that walked close enough to the pitcher’s mound that you could tell that he said something to the pitcher. And I— I believe that the Orioles hit another batter that night, and then there were a couple high and tight pitches from Yankees pitchers that night. And then two nights later, they hit Gunnar Henderson and Gunnar Henderson spiked his bat in frustration, assuming that that was kind of retribution for what had happened to the Yankees hitters and Aaron Judge two nights earlier. And one of the stranger things that I’ve seen a catcher do in that inst— in that circumstance, when Gunnar Henderson spiked his bat, Yankees catcher, Jose Trevino, kicked it back in Henderson’s direction. All that to say, both of these teams are really good. They’re scratching and clawing. They’re gonna be scratching calling for the AL East this year, and probably for years to come. And I’m pretty refreshed by the idea of the American League East not having to constantly be about the Yankees and Red Sox anymore.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: That’s the one thing that I can take from this, even though I’ve been noted as a— even though I’ve been a noted Baltimore Orioles hater and skeptic for years now. The— both of these teams are good and fun to watch.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And I don’t have a larger take about the Yankees— Yankees Twitter or David Simon.
ALEX: Nor I. I— I didn’t— I was not watching this game. I was just experiencing it through like— seeing an occasional tweet from a fan of one fan base. Just like— like I would click on a tweet, and I would scroll up, and I would see there’s like dozens and dozens of replies and I’m like, “All right. This is too much, guys. This is— it’s a fucking baseball game. Chill.”
BOBBY: The two teams have kind of polar opposite vibes. Like, the Yankees are kind of old and patched together with younger, bright spots, you know, Soto and Anthony Volpe, and— and that’s kind of it. And the Orioles, obviously, have this— this youth movement, and they’re incredibly cheap. And they’re kind of like the new team on the block in terms of success. And the Yankees have that sort of, [58:33] we’ve been around forever. We’re the only franchise that matters,” energy about them. And so it is a little bit like oil and water when they come together. There’s like a fun verve about Baltimore’s fan base and team right now. And there’s a institutional annoyingness about the Yankees team and their fan base. And I— I think that makes for high stakes and I’d love to see these teams play in the playoffs, honestly. Two great ballparks to watch on TV. I can’t speak for going to Baltimore, because I’ve never been, but I know that everybody loves that stadium.
ALEX: Yeah, it’s sick.
BOBBY: And my feelings about the Yankee Stadium have been made clear. It’s ugly and impossible to get into, and then Yankees fans, it sucks to be around them. I wanted to wear my Orioles “Nationalize Baseball” T-shirt, but it’s long sleeve and it was like 100 degrees.
ALEX: That’s fair.
BOBBY: But otherwise, I would have done it.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Just know that my heart was in the right place.
ALEX: It was— you were wearing it in your head.
BOBBY: But what I actually ended up wearing was a Derek Jeter jersey.
ALEX: Did you actually?
BOBBY: No.
[laughter]
BOBBY: I wouldn’t be caught dead in a Yankees jersey.
ALEX: What did you— what were you— what were you wearing? So this is— you were not a fan of either of these teams, so what— did you do like neutral team? Did you just—
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: —just get a fit-off?
BOBBY: I just got a fit-off.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Yeah. I was just wearing a black button up— you know, the black button up Everlane jersey that I have?
ALEX: Yes, I do.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: That was what I was wearing. I was kind of Yankees fan coded, honestly.
ALEX: Right, right.
BOBBY: With like the undershirt underneath it.
ALEX: Yankees fan passing.
BOBBY: Yeah. Yankees fan passing. Okay. let’s go to voicemails.
AARON: Hey, Bobby and Alex. This is Aaron. Love the show. Kind of a loss with seeing all this stuff about the Negro Leagues statistics being counted as Major League statistics or how— how I guess it all works. I guess I just don’t trust Major League Baseball that much. Maybe I’m too skeptical, but I kind of feel like by changing up how the statistics work, the league is working in some way to kind of erase everything that they did. By acknowledging a couple of guys accomplishments, they can kind of push under the rug everything that they did, everything that they were complicit in, and, you know, same with [1:00:59] fans and the media, and anybody else who’s involved in everything there. But anyways, love the show. Keep up the good work.
ALEX: Aaron, thanks for calling in. We had a long discussion with Clinton Yates about this, like, a couple of years ago, when they first announced that they were going to do this move. I definitely suggest you go back and take a listen to that, because I— he, unsurprisingly, I think, had some really nuanced and incisive perspectives on this move. I— I really appreciate our conversation with— with him about that. I—
BOBBY: I think Clinton is like the number one person whose opinion you should care about on this specific thing.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So if you haven’t listened to that episode, or you haven’t read what Clinton has written about, or there was actually an episode of the ESPN Daily podcast with Clin— which Clinton now hosts, about this exact thing and diving in a little bit deeper to the history of this effort, which started back in the early 2000s, to acknowledge the Negro League statistics as Major League Baseball statistics. And is now just finally paying dividends. They’re now officially doing that. But this is something that’s been a long time coming. I think the controversy over it had a lot to do with the wording in the statement of elevating the Negro Leagues statistics, which didn’t need elevation. And that was the statement at the time. That’s what we talked to Clinton about. Anyway, long— long way of saying, you should go listen to that episode of the ESPN Daily. It was like 30 minutes and I think was eye-opening even to me, someone who’s been following the story for years.
ALEX: Yeah. We’ll link to it in the description. I think I echo a lot of your concerns, Aaron, and I— and I do think it was really— I mean, I was on FanGraphs the other day and just kind of playing around with it, and navigating over to you know, Josh Gibson’s page. It is a little jarring to see— what level did he play at? MLB. Right? There’s nothing on there if you were just searching for players just bouncing around. There is nothing on there that would necessarily indicate that he did not play in Major League Baseball.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: Like, now, there’s a little story up top, because he was mentioned in the news article that talks about, you know, this— this move, but like—
BOBBY: He did not play— this is weird— weird phrasing, though. He did not play—
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: —in the American League or the National League.
ALEX: Correct.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Yeah. He played professional baseball. He played in the Major Leagues, but he did not play in the institution of Major League Baseball, and that’s something—
BOBBY: As we now know it, yes.
ALEX: As we now know it, yes. And that’s something that like— you know, it’s hard to have reflected in just a list of statistics. But I do think it’s something that, like, the game has not finished reckoning with. I think Major League Baseball’s hopes are that they can say, “Ah, we clean that part up of our history.”
BOBBY: It’s not only not finished reckoning with it, it’s like barely starting.
ALEX: Yes. Right.
BOBBY: You know? Like, to me, that commission that they put together to formalize and codify the Negro Leagues statistics in— in the early 2000s, I think it was 2002, where they were putting together a group of baseball historians to say, “Can you go back and verify that these statistics are real? They are not collected anywhere formally with the multiple sources.” And what these people did is they went through newspaper articles, and they went through box scores throughout the entire history of baseball, the entire history of the Negro Leagues, and they said, “Yes, we believe with confidence that this happened. This is— this is a statistic that we can verify, or no, we didn’t.” And that’s why these are incomplete, the statistics, and some of them are listed— some of the statistics are listed, like, with full confidence and some of them are listed as speculative, or just not listed at all. And that squishiness is a level of squishiness that we don’t perceive that we have with Major League Baseball statistics, because we believe that this was always being codified officially throughout that. But honestly, that to me, they’re just as real. Now, whether you want to talk about— whether you want to talk about the competition levels for the leagues, how would I know that? How would any of us even deign to start to opine about the competition levels between the American League, the National League, the Negro American leagues, the different— you know, the Negro National League? Like, I have no idea. I— I watch a 100 baseball games a year, and I wouldn’t even be able to tell you whether the American League or the National League is more competitive now. Let alone just trying to put myself 100 years in the past and say, “So what do I do? I trust historians, and historians tell me they might— Negro Leagues at the time might not have had the depth or the professionalization, but they certainly did have the top level talent.” That— that’s good enough for me. So I think that it’s important to keep the nuance of talking about the fact that these leagues were different, they were intentionally different, they were intentionally designed to be that way, they were segregated for a reason, but that the Negro Leagues had their own merit, and that merit deserves to be acknowledged as on the same level, as the Major League Baseball statistics that we have always known. I don’t— you don’t need to get— your life isn’t going to change because there’s a different person’s name and a different number next to it than the one that you thought that you knew as the holy number of whoever had the most hits, or whoever had the most home runs, or whoever had the most RBIs, or pitcher wins, or whoever. The hit— it didn’t— it doesn’t change just because we’re putting— it doesn’t change just because we’re codifying those statistics. That— that stuff happened either way. And so I don’t think it hurts to— I don’t think this project is a bad thing. I think that Aaron’s concern is a valid one, though, that MLB will now say, “Done and dusted. We’ve done our job here. We’ve acknowledged that that was a mistake, and now we’ve— we’ve done— this is our— this is the peak compliment that we can give it. We care about statistics more than anything, right? So we’re— now, we’re— we’re acknowledging this is real.” That’s not what I want to see come from this. And, of course, that’s what the league will try to do. That’s what the league tries to do every year with Jackie Robinson as a microcosm of how they feel towards black baseball. I just think it’s incumbent on people not to let them do that. And I think that there are plenty of people within this effort who are not allowing Major League Baseball to do that. It’s just that once those people, the statisticians, that have been asked to do this project, the people like Bob Kendrick who ha— has been the sort of liaison between the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum, and the statistical committee, and Major League Baseball acknowledging the stats and more broadly acknowledging the Negro Leagues history. Once someone like Bob Kendrick is not in— in the picture enough to keep this nuance alive, I think that’s when you start to worry that, like, a next commissioner doesn’t do the justice of talking actively about the differences and the nuances and the legacy of the Negro Leagues.
NICK: Hey, guys, this is Nick. It is one of the preeminent Brewers fans listening in here. Very, very, very frustrated with the past couple of nights in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. As some of you may know, it’s Craig Counsell’s return to Milwaukee for the first time that he took the job with the Cubs. And a lot of people online are kind of really telling themselves a little bit about kind of the way that they’re thinking about Craig Counsell, the way that they’re talking about and moving forward. Saying things like, “Oh, he’s a traitor. He’s a snake. Like, he was born in like a city near Milwaukee, so he’s like a hometown guy. So why is he leaving to go coach the enemy or whatever?” And it’s just the biggest example of how Brewer fans speaking as one with that experience, have a such a little brother complex when it comes to the Brewers and the Cubs rivalry. Like, it’s one of the things, like the meme, where the two guys that are in the elevator and the one guy is like, “I hate you.” And then the other one is like, “I don’t think about you at all.” That’s the relationship here. The Brewer fans, like, have essentially poisoned themselves into thinking that their way of doing business of just running a really low payroll and making the best out of a situation where the owner being incredibly poor and Mark Attanasio has not done enough to— to get the team where it needs to be, and somehow implying and like that’s a better position to be in than a team with a $200 million payroll with the Cubs. So I’m frustrated about it. Not really a question. It’s more just kind of getting that off my chest a little bit.
ALEX: Thank you, Nick. Hey, that’s what this space is for.
BOBBY: Exactly.
ALEX: Honestly, we— you do not have to call in with a question. In fact, I think we initially launched this as like a place to just like—
BOBBY: Complain about your owner.
ALEX: Complain about your owner, vent, do it. So I want to encourage—
BOBBY: There’s like a decent chance—
ALEX: —the listeners to— to do the same.
BOBBY: —that when you call the voicemail, it still says that. Like, “Complain about your owner.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I actually don’t know what it says. You call the voicemail, that voicemail, 785-422-5881, by the way. The whole Craig Counsell situation was weird and that the fan base— parts of the fan base, maybe the organization I don’t really know, was trying to pressure him to staying because he’s from Milwaukee or he’s from Wisconsin, as if he should take some type of hometown discount when the Brewers and Attanasio have shown varying, at best, levels of commitment to spending to win. And it was clearly important to Counsell to reset the manager salary market and to have a— a new challenge to— like, to not have to spend his entire excellent managerial career trying to make the most out of the Island of Misfit Toys approach, for lack of a better phrase, that— and I’m not trying to shit on the Brewers, by the way. Like, I’m— they have done great things with the resources. The people in charge there have done great things with the resources they’ve been afforded.
ALEX: Right. Stearns, primarily.
BOBBY: But sometimes you don’t want to have to play with one hand tied behind your back, like we’ve been talking about. And sometimes you don’t need to. But certain organizations are pot committed to doing that, and the Brewers are one of them. The Brewers are one of them, because Attanasio is a broke boy. Broke boy ownership. Sorry. Money Talks. Let’s go to the next question.
SPEAKER 5: Hey, guys. Love the show, man. I just listened to the last episode. How much do you think of the— the hypocrisy or the— the fear? The Rage over the gambling has to do with keeping the— the sport, “clean,” quote-unquote, so that— that betters don’t— don’t start raising questions. So that— that the— the— the line is true and— and it doesn’t appear that— that it has been tampered with or— or thrown, or whatever. I think it has a lot to do with it, man, but love the show. Yep.
ALEX: Thanks for the question. I think it’s a more than plausible explanation. I— like, I think that people like Rob Manfred and Adam Silver are elated to bring the hammer down on— on players who run afoul of the sports betting rules, because you indicate that the landscape is safe.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: For the small guy, like you and me, Bob. We’re just placing our little parlays every day. You know, the— the sport is clean. We have gotten rid of these bad actors. We have a no tolerance policy. You know, you can be guaranteed that your money is safe with us. It is being placed on a fair ballgame.
BOBBY: Yeah. And there— there, at some point, could be a critical mass of people, but also just events that happen, that damage that trust in a way that the— it’s not going to— it’s not going to prevent people from betting. Like, the people who want to bet are probably going to bet. But what it will do is that if it starts to create mistrust, and it starts to feel like the sport is too rigged, then you won’t capture new betters. And this is not your eternal cash cow and the way that they’re clearly financially setting themselves up in hopes that it is. And so I think that to continue to grab new betters, there has to be a perception that there’s a chance to win.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And if it seems like it’s stacked against you, or if it seems like there— there’s foul play or bad actors within that, then— and you’re not already committed to gambling, or you’re not already lightly addicted to it, or if you’re not already heavily addicted to it, then why would you start doing it? You know, why would you get yourself into that? It’s like smoking. You know, if you make it to 28, for example, and you’ve never smoked cigarettes before, you start to get the urge—
ALEX: Why would you—
BOBBY: —cigarettes, like why would you do that?
ALEX: The answer is because it’s cool.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But—
BOBBY: Well, the answer is because when you’re coming out of a movie, and you’re walking down the street, and you’re just like, “I need something to do with my hands.” Okay, final question for this—
ALEX: Fid— fidget spinners for adults.
BOBBY: I mean, is it— isn’t that what it is?
ALEX: It kind— it kind of literally what it is, yeah.
BOBBY: Like, not kind of. Like—
SPEAKER 6: Hey, fellas. Look, I got a bone to pick. I— I don’t know, man. This Alex is a— is a Phillies fandom seems like a little bit of a sham. I don’t know. Is he a Phillies fan? Is he a Mets fan? Or is he still an A’s fan? It kind of seems like he’s just an A’s and a Mets fan. I don’t know.
BOBBY: For context, I’m not gonna docs this person, but for context, this— this call comes from a 215 number, so this is a Phillies fan most likely.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Who feels a little hard done by your fraudulence.
ALEX: That’s good. Stand up for yourself, you know? And your team. This is— I admire this.
BOBBY: You’re kind of like Joe Biden, in a way.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Where like you keep saying you’re a Phillies fan, you keep saying you’re progressive. But does the track record align with it?
ALEX: Right. No, it doesn’t. My voting history doesn’t.
BOBBY: Most— most, quote, “pro union president in history,” okay?
[laughter]
BOBBY: And what’s going on? He’s setting all of his time trying to pass border security bills.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Put your money where your mouth is, you know? Crack down on Starbucks, crack down on Amazon, crack down on the Mets.
ALEX: Look, I’ve—
BOBBY: You won’t.
ALEX: I do feel like I’m— I’m between a bit of a rock and a hard place here.
BOBBY: I don’t know how I got to the point where I was comparing the Mets to Starbucks.
ALEX: I don’t really know either, but I’m gonna let you— let you sit with that one.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: I— I have our fans to answer to, of course. All the Phillies fans who listen— listen to us and— and the rest—
BOBBY: You should start calling our listeners partners.
[laughter]
ALEX: I don’t even— but I don’t even know if that really— because they— Starbucks calls their employees partners.
BOBBY: I just— we need— we need to like corporatize it, you know, a little bit like McKinsey calls their company a firm.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: They’re not a company, they’re a firm.
ALEX: Right. So we’re like a, what, a media conglomerate?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Yeah. Maybe we could call— I guess we could just call them friends.
ALEX: Consumers.
BOBBY: That’s worse. We’re going the wrong direction.
ALEX: I thought that— I thought that was the point of it. I didn’t— oh, I— oh, that’s right. We want it to be corporate—
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: —but like with the [1:17:07]
BOBBY: When you— when you said, “I have the fans to answer to.” I was like, “That seems mean. They’re more than just fans. They’re more than just listeners. They’re partners.”
ALEX: Yeah. Okay. You’re right.
BOBBY: “Business endeavor.”
ALEX: Well, which I think it makes my case for me, you know? I— I have—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —I have them and then, look, I have— I have you.
BOBBY: How about associates?
ALEX: I have to answer to you every time we— we sit down and do this podcast.
BOBBY: Yeah, you do.
ALEX: And to be honest, it scares me a little bit.
BOBBY: For whom the bell tolls, Alex.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Allies, nope. Associates, colleagues, companions, friends, accomplices. I was just looking at thesaurus.com. Buddies, cohorts. Cohorts is not bad.
ALEX: Cohorts.
BOBBY: That’s what we call our listeners now.
ALEX: Yeah. So— but what is a individual listener? A cohort?
BOBBY: Cohort.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: I like companion.
ALEX: I like companion, too.
BOBBY: I need, once and for all, a campaign commitment from you to— to truly nail down whether you’re a Phillies fan or not.
ALEX: Look, Jack, it’s a tough issue. Okay? You know, all these— all these kids want to think is black and white these days.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: But we’re having tough conversations behind closed doors.
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: And frankly, this sort of disagreement is what America is fundamentally all about. You know, the fact that you and I can sit down on opposite sides of the table and have a [1:18:27]
BOBBY: One person, a real Mets fan and one person of a closeted Mets fan who’s a fake Phillies fan.
ALEX: Right. A—
BOBBY: That’s what America was founded for.
ALEX: —a civil dialogue.
BOBBY: That’s what they push the tea into the harbor for.
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: This is what it was all for. Speaking of pushing to the— the tea into the harbor, Alex?
ALEX: Yeah. That was a good [1:18:46] I didn’t actually know what you’re— that was well done.
BOBBY: I still got it. Our friends at Bat Flips and Nerds over there, across the proverbial pond, something that you have to say when you’re talking about—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —the UK across the pond from us. They were doing a recap of the events of the London Series and the week around it. And part of that recap— I gotta say I’m just very— very impressed by this. Part of that recap was reviewing your British accent on their podcast, and we’re gonna play that clip here. I haven’t heard this, so this is— I’m just so excited to hear what they have to say about your British accent.
SPEAKER 7: Okay. This one’s a bit left field. So we all listen to Tipping Pitches, right? Tipping Pitches—
SPEAKER 8: We all know what tipping—
SPEAKER 7: —fantastic podcast to enjoy.
SPEAKER 8: We the people, we know what Tipping Pitches is all about.
SPEAKER 7: We do. What it’s all about, absolutely. So listen, I was listening to the— the episode before Alex came over to London, and he briefly debuted his British accent, and I immediately, immediately thought that sounds like an excitable Ben Carter. And I cannot now get that out of my head when he was doing it. Go back, listen to it. You will hear Ben Carter but like more excitable every single time. So it—
SPEAKER 8: Wow.
SPEAKER 7: —it’s from— it’s from the baseball hemisphere, so there you go. It’s— it’s— Alex sounds exactly like Ben Carter when he’s being British.
SPEAKER 8: Yeah. A little wrinkly [1:20:12] here. We didn’t get to catch up with Alex whilst he was over, despite our best efforts. He kept [1:20:17]
SPEAKER 7: I tried. I— I stood— I stood in a stand and shouted Alex really loud but no one showed up.
SPEAKER 8: Yes. I was present when he did that.
SPEAKER 7: [1:20:23]
SPEAKER 8: And then the— the following day, I genuinely thought that a man with the most New York accent I’ve ever heard was going to kill me whilst I was looking for Alex and was apparently— and I, quote, “blocking home plate.”
BOBBY: I— I would say—
ALEX: You’re not— you’re not going to play the clip where they played a clip of our podcast on their podcast?
BOBBY: Do they do that?
ALEX: Yeah, they do.
BOBBY: God, that rules.
ALEX: That— it was certainly something.
[laughter]
BOBBY: I feel like they think you acquitted yourself nicely.
ALEX: I— I think they were far too— far too kind.
BOBBY: Yeah, they— they were maybe— they were maybe a little light on you, because they’re friends of the show.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: John has been on the show before.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Probably overdue for a little crossover again. Hey, guys, thank you for listening.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Thank you for all your support.
ALEX: Good fellas.
BOBBY: Over the years. Check out Bat Flips and nerds.
ALEX: Yeah. Great—
BOBBY: They create stuff all year round, not just around the London series. I have one more piece of audio to play for you, and you don’t know what this is.
ALEX: I don’t know what it is.
BOBBY: Speaking with London Series, Alex, you did a crossover episode with Stephen from Batting Around. And we ran that episode on our Patreon feed. Great conversation, nicely done. Great work. You’re in your host bag on that episode.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You know, you had to do all the formal stuff. You had to move the conversation along. You had to end it.
ALEX: Yeah, it was pretty funny. We both sat down and we were like, “What do we— what’s the move? What do we do here?”
BOBBY: Well, Batting Around also ran that on their Patreon, and Batting Around host and producer Jane Ost created a little intro for that episode that I just thought it’s so funny, so I’m gonna play it here.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: As a shout out to Jane, as well as a vote of confidence for— if you don’t already listen to Batting Around and sign up for their Patreon to— to go check it out, because this is the kind of stuff that you’re gonna— this is the kind of craft— craftsmanship. You’re gonna get over there.
ALEX: These are the only free ads we do on this podcast, by the way.
BOBBY: For others, for our friends.
ALEX: Which is for our friends, for other podcasts.
BOBBY: And for a lot of companies.
[theme]
JANE: Tell us a little bit about what you saw and be able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitch and kind of help out so he wasn’t typical pitches. So tipping pitches we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand what tipping pitches all about? That’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
[theme]
BOBBY: It’s so good. It’s so good.
ALEX: Oh, my goodness.
BOBBY: I know, round of applause. Round of applause. That level of effort and craftsmanship that Jane’s putting in over there, it’s just great stuff.
ALEX: Remarkable work. Go listen to Batting Around.
BOBBY: That’s all I got. I have no more audio clips for you to play this week. I have no more voicemails to play.
ALEX: No, you don’t.
BOBBY: We did just get another listener email, but we’ll save that for next week.
ALEX: You know what you do have left to do, though.
Bobbby: What do I have?
ALEX: You have to rank some shit.
BOBBY: Oh, shit. That’s so true. I forgot about that. Okay.
ALEX: Let’s do it. You have to be out of here in 11 minutes.
BOBBY: True. As always I have a movie to go to.
ALEX: Do you want to share with the listeners? What is it?
BOBBY: Kinds of Kindness.
ALEX: Hmm. Okay.
BOBBY: The new Yorgos Lanthimos movie anthology film. I don’t know. I heard it was kind of a one big middle finger, so I’m looking forward to it.
ALEX: We love that. All right. Back on the— the ranking segment.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: It’s the one, you know what it’s all about.
BOBBY: That’s exactly right.
ALEX: We don’t have to tell you and we won’t.
BOBBY: Collective bargaining.
ALEX: Collective bargaining. I do like that one.
BOBBY: Yeah, that’s a good one.
ALEX: Yeah. I— you know, I will say I saw Ben in the Slack note that— that for this to be like a blind ranking, what we should be doing is— is ranking before— you’re— you’re already shaking your head.
BOBBY: Yeah, ’cause Ben is like— he’s so Gen Z. This is like what they—
ALEX: Wow.
BOBBY: — you— what you do on TikTok, where you have to just like blind— it just— spit something out and you have to blindly rank it in a TikTok video. That’s not what this is for.
ALEX: Like, I want to say— Ben, I was ready to entertain the idea of a Bobby countdown—
BOBBY: This is for the scholarship.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: This is for scholarship. We’re trying to— I mean, if you want— how about this?
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: How about this, Alex?
ALEX: No. What? No.
BOBBY: How about this, Alex?
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: And how about this, Ben? And how about this, colleagues at home? Almost forgot what we were calling the listeners again.
ALEX: Isn’t it companions?
BOBBY: I think I said colleagues. Companions is good. How about this, companions at home, what if the person who’s creating a list decides whether it’s blind or— or not? So you tell me whether or not you want me to do a blind or you want me to do it knowing everything.
ALEX: All right, fine. Well, since you just spent three minutes denigrating the blind ranking, we’re not going to do a blind ranking.
BOBBY: Fine. I’m going to make you do a blind ranking every time now.
ALEX: Okay, great. This week, I want you to rank these five superstitions.
BOBBY: Okay. I’m a—
ALEX: Based on—
BOBBY: I’m a very superstitious person.
ALEX: You are a very superstitious person.
BOBBY: It’s because I believe in God.
ALEX: It actually is. That’s— you said you were going to— to see a movie, but you’re— what you’re really doing is going to church after this.
BOBBY: Well, this was church.
ALEX: That’s fair. I want you to rank these five superstitions—
BOBBY: Two guys talking. Varying levels of making sense.
ALEX: Yeah, exactly. Incredibly esoteric, weird references.
BOBBY: Right. You have to kind of have, like, been listening for years to really understand what they mean by it.
ALEX: Right. You probably have to disregard a large portion of it anyway.
BOBBY: Right, exactly. And we’re full of shit.
ALEX: Yeah. Good. Glad we got that out of the way. Nothing like a little Catholic Church slander here. Rank these superstitions by, I guess, their effectiveness.
BOBBY: Okay. By how much I believe they matter.
ALEX: By— by how much— right. Your belief in them.
BOBBY: Okay. Yeah, I got, I got it. I got this.
ALEX: These are— these are fan superstitions, I just want to say, okay?
BOBBY: Okay. Okay.
ALEX: Rally cap.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: Wearing, like, the same outfit or item of clothing.
BOBBY: Okay. Like the magical T-shirt.
ALEX: Right. Magic T-shirt.
BOBBY: Principle.
ALEX: This is—
BOBBY: I just coined that.
ALEX: —similar— similar but different. The lucky charm.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: Maybe a little bias there for you.
BOBBY: Oh, you know what my lucky charm?
ALEX: Bro—
BOBBY: The number 11 pool ball.
ALEX: Yeah, of course. You think I don’t— are you kidding me? I’m— I’m offended.
BOBBY: That started my superstition.
ALEX: I’m offended.
BOBBY: Okay. All right. Okay. All right. Okay.
ALEX: Not mentioning the, like, perfect game or no-hitter.
BOBBY: Okay. Yeah.
ALEX: And then sitting in the same spot. So, like, having—
BOBBY: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
ALEX: —like that sort of routine.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Those are your five.
BOBBY: That’s a five-way tie. They’re all important.
ALEX: They’re all important.
BOBBY: Just kidding. I don’t like rally cap.
ALEX: Ooh.
BOBBY: I’m putting rally cap last.
ALEX: Yeah. I mean, it’s a little like— little— it’s one of the ones you learn during the Little League. I feel it’s one of the first superstitions you learn.
BOBBY: Yes, it is, but weirdly one that pervades—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —to Major League Baseball. Like, you see Major League Baseball players doing this in the dugout—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —frequently, but I— I was never much of a rally cap guy. Mostly because my head was too big to turn my head inside out and get it on there.
ALEX: Right, yeah.
BOBBY: You know? It never really worked for me, so that’s coming from a personal place of trauma.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Rally cap number five. Number four not mentioning the no-hitter. I’m a believer in that as a fan, but I guess— damn. Maybe I’m— maybe I’m wrong, though, because I did this to R.A. Dickey, remember?
ALEX: Right, yeah.
BOBBY: I ruined his perfect game.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Shit. What were the— so the other for— not mentioning the— the lucky shirt or piece of outfit, the lucky charm.
ALEX: The lucky charm.
BOBBY: And— and what’s the fourth one? Oh, sitting in the same place.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Ah, they’re all good. Yeah, I’ll do not mentioning at number four. I feel like you can usually get away with mentioning it. And what’s the real difference between being like, “He’s got something really special going on there.”?
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: “He’s not allowed a base run yet.”?
ALEX: Right. The ba— the baseball gods are up there like, “Well, shit. He didn’t actually say it.”
BOBBY: Spoiled again. He didn’t say the word.
ALEX: “Ah! He was so close.” Look, if Vin Scully isn’t afraid to say it on a broadcast, I’m kind of like, “All right.”
BOBBY: I agree.
ALEX: Good enough for me.
BOBBY: He’s sort of a bit of— he’s kind of like the mouthpiece for the— for the baseball gods in my mind.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I was thinking about that, actually, of Vin Scully because I was watching For Love of the Game recently, the Kevin Costner movie—
ALEX: Oh, yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: —it chronicles him throwing a perfect game in his final appearance and Vin Scully is the broadcaster in that movie.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Just calling it like it’s a real baseball game.
ALEX: Amazing stuff.
BOBBY: Okay, number three. I’m gonna go with sitting in the same place. That is important to me. I feel as though I won the Super Bowl for the Giants by doing that, against the undefeated Patriots.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: So I would like if anyone who had the power at home— at home is listening, to get me one of those Giants Super Bowl rings, I would take it. I can send you my address offline. Okay, that’s number three. I stood—
ALEX: I’ll— I’ll tell you that— his address right now. 5—
BOBBY: Both, both, both Giants Super Bowls. The first one, I stood in the back at my family friend’s house. I stood the whole time, leaning against the wall with my hand. The second one, I sat on the staircase in my house, watching next to a jersey that we had hung up to honor the fact that my sister wasn’t there watching it with us. Okay? So I feel like I did it. I feel like I should at least get one Super Bowl ring from those two.
ALEX: Yes. I agree.
BOBBY: Number two, lucky shirt. Number one, lucky charm. Lucky shirt, my— my faith has wavered in lucky shirts recently.
ALEX: Okay. All right.
BOBBY: Because they win, like, two games and you’re like, “Oh, this is the lucky shirt.” And then it’s like— and then it’s not.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Because it always— but I feel like there is something really powerful to a lucky charm. It’s like invigorating. You feel like nothing can touch you because—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —you have this. Famously, I’ve probably told the story of the podcast. I know I’ve told it to you, because you just said that if you were offended that I didn’t know that you knew. But I— I had a little pool ball charm with the number 11, which is my lucky number. That was on my baseball bag, all throughout my entire baseball playing career. It broke off. I used to just keep it in the bottom of the bag after that, because I always had to have it with me. Because the first time I put it on there, I had a great game that day and I was like, “Well, this is the reason, clearly.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Plus, it just— I like magical items, you know? I feel like that’s one thing that baseball has that other sports don’t really have. I think Homer sausage is a perfect example of that. I think Grimace is a perfect example of that.
ALEX: God. I— no. All right. End— end of pod.
BOBBY: You’re out— so you’re out on Grimace?
ALEX: End the pod.
BOBBY: For a man who can be so in on McDonald’s, you’re such a hypocrite for being out on Grimace.
ALEX: I’m not out on Grimace. I think it’s a cute trending—
BOBBY: You are Funding Grimace. Sorry, I think it’s a cute X, the Everything app.
BOBBY: App. Yep.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: It could be everything platform. Not sure.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: When we get Elon on, we’ll ask him.
ALEX: Next week [1:31:30]
BOBBY: Okay. All right. Good list. I like it.
ALEX: All right.
BOBBY: Just a recap. What was the—
ALEX: Recap, you had —you had five, rally cap.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: You had—
BOBBY: Four not saying the name.
ALEX: Four not saying the name. Three was sitting in the same spot.
BOBBY: Two was lucky, your outfit.
ALEX: Two was lucky outfit. Number one is lucky charm. Now, are you like a— like a lucky charm is like— you have to be like holding, it or touching it, or more just like it has to be like present?
BOBBY: It depends on the charm.
ALEX: Okay. Got it. I [1:31:59]
BOBBY: Like for the pool ball, it was like it had to be in my bag.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: But for other things that have been lucky charms along the way, yeah, holding it or like putting it on the coffee table while the game is going on. I’ve— I’ve done all of the above.
ALEX: As long as it works, man. I don’t care.
BOBBY: For a while there. I had a little lucky charm going where I had to eat a Jersey Mike’s sub before every Sunday Mets game. It was like they keep winning on Sundays and we kept going to Jersey Mike’s. No free ads.
ALEX: No free ads.
BOBBY: Now, it’s like—I mean, at McDonald’s just to say thank you to Grimace for all of his hard work.
ALEX: Right. Right. Exactly. You’re just doing your part.
BOBBY: For all of their hard work. I don’t think Grimace is gendered.
ALEX: That’s true.
BOBBY: I don’t mean to gender Grimace.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Okay. Good episode. Definitely a little weird. Just a little weird.
ALEX: I— I always appreciate the qualifier at the end of almost every single one of our episodes of, “That one was little weird.”
BOBBY: Started out by honoring one of the greatest baseball players who has ever lived in a very serious way, ended by talking about Grimace’s gender. This is what you get. This is the Tipping Pitches experience.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Thank you everybody for listening. If you like to call our voicemail—
ALEX: Thank you, our compat—
BOBBY: Colleagues.
ALEX: Compatriots?
BOBBY: I like— that’s good. That’s actually good. I’ll pull up a poll—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —in the— in the Spotify this week. Thanks, everybody, for listening. If you’d like to call our voicemail, 785-422-5881. If you’d like to write us an email, it’s tippingpitchespod@gmail.com. If you’d like to sign up for our Patreon, where we will be doing another episode this week, if you can imagine us doing more talking, and more content, and more jokes. We will be doing an episode of 3UP 3DOWN on Wednesday of this week. That is patreon.com/tippingpitches, three different tiers, top tier gets you access to bonus episodes. I think that’s all I got for this week. And we’ll see you on the Patreon feed in a couple of days and on the main feed in one week.
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello, everybody. I’m Alex Rodriguez. Tipping Pitches. Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most. Tipping Pitches. So, we’ll see you next week. See ya!
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