Please enjoy this ‘Moneyball’ watchalong commentary track, unlocked from the Tipping Pitches Patreon, while Alex and Bobby take the week off from the feed to recover from the chaos of Billionaire Hunting. ‘Moneyball’ is currently streaming on Netflix in the United States.
Transcript
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and be able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitch and kind of help out so he wasn’t typical pitches. So tipping pitches we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand what tipping pitches all about? That’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: What is your [0:32] David Sims, known for his great work on the Blank Check Podcast.
DAVID: I should be introduced that way all the time.
BOBBY: Is here to talk about Moneyball with us, which everybody listening is probably gathered from the— the title of this here podcast. But Alex, this will be our first experience doing a watchalong with anyone else and only our sec— second experience doing a watchalong together. How are you feeling?
ALEX: I— I would not have it any other way, watching— watching this movie with this man sitting beside us.
BOBBY: There’s no one else on Earth that you’d like to watch this movie.
DAVID: What was the first one you did?
BOBBY: Sandlot. What’s your take on the Sandlot, before we start? Because once the movie starts—
DAVID: Oh.
BOBBY: —there’s no reason for anyone here to talk about Sandlot.
DAVID: I— I’m not sure that I’ve seen it. I think I saw it as a kid.
ALEX: That’s— wow.
Bobby: What?
DAVID: But I have no memory of it and I’ve never seen it as a grown man. Which sounds weird when I say that. Like grown men should see The Sandlot.
BOBBY: Do— do people need to know anything about Blank Check before we start?
DAVID: A movie podcast that I host. I mean, not really. I mean, I don’t know. You can tell— you— you’re supposed to set me up.
BOBBY: No, no.
DAVID: You want me to plug my show?
BOBBY: Introduce yourself.
DAVID: Oh! I’m David Sims. I host a movie podcast called Blank Check.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: There it is.
DAVID: I’m also a big baseball fan.
BOBBY: There it is.
DAVID: I— you know, we would love to do this movie, because honestly, my co-host loves this movie, but this director, we’re sort of a director-based podcast—
BOBBY: Yes, exactly.
DAVID: —works so infrequently. And whenever— he— all the movies he’s made are interesting. All three of them.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: And whenever I ask people in the industry about him, like, “Hey, why don’t [2:03]” like, he doesn’t— he— he finds [2:07]
BOBBY: He doesn’t like making movies.
DAVID: Yeah. Yeah. Like, he likes movies and he likes the movies he— like— but like he— it just takes him— so he just, like, makes commercials and makes money off of that.
BOBBY: Maybe that’s the right thing to do. [2:18]
ALEX: That’s kind of the way to go.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: I mean, it might be. He’s basically three for three and, you know, maybe he just wants to just chill.
ALEX: [2:23] laurels.
BOBBY: Batting a— batting a thousand as we say in the industry. Are— are you guys ready to start? You want to— anything you want to clear off your chest before we start this— this movie? I’m going to warn you up top, David. Alex and I have very strong feelings about the concept of Moneyball. Like—
DAVID: I do, too.
BOBBY: —the movie Moneyball is tremendous. I’m excited to start it.
DAVID: It’s a winning movie cast. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: But I’m excited to talk about the concept of Moneyball.
DAVID: Well, about the actual concept of Moneyball, and then also maybe the concept of Moneyball as presented in the—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: You know, the sort of sanded down, you know, what’s wrong with a little math?
BOBBY: We’re gonna do it. We’re gonna start, so I’m gonna give everybody a quick little countdown, in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
DAVID: Click. I said— when I said click, you click.
BOBBY: Thank you for doing that work.
DAVID: You’re welcome.
BOBBY: I really appreciate it.
DAVID: It’s fine. It’s fine, Bobby. The Columbia logo, it’s loud. You know?
BOBBY: You’re right. Right off the bat, when did you see this movie first? In theaters, I assume?
DAVID: I saw this film in theaters. I had read the book by Michael Lewis, and was kind of— I— I kind of loved that book—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: —at the time, six years ago.
BOBBY: Not— not trying to get yourself canceled.
DAVID: Yes, yes. He’s— he’s doing enough work on that [3:46]
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: And I had tracked this movie because it was supposed to be a Soderbergh movie, which I assume you guys know. Soderbergh worked on this movie for a while.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: For years, he didn’t do it.
DAVID: He had like a different concept for it. And then it was kind of coming out, you know, oh, it went over to Bennett Miller and he came up with, like, fanfare, but everyone was kind of like, “Eh, it’s like baseball nerd movie.” And I saw it and I was like, “That was terrific. Like, I loved that.” And I think for me, and I’m assuming maybe for you guys, and I think for a lot of people, it’s just— it had like the 10-year journey from a movie that I saw and liked in theaters to just a— a canonic— sort of the Michael Clayton journey.
ALEX: Hmm.
DAVID: Like, if it’s on, it’s— it’s essential to watch it. I can quote whole scenes of boring dialogue from it.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: You can watch this movie from an additional provider [4:41] on the screen.
BOBBY: Why is that on—
DAVID: And Roku is so—
ALEX: So weird.
BOBBY: Where did it come from?
DAVID: —so trashy. It’s just so weird.
ALEX: How did it— how did it know?
BOBBY: I don’t know. I’m not really sure.
DAVID: Something is so janky about Roku.
BOBBY: There really is. Alex— right off the bat here, so Alex is an A’s fan.
ALEX: I am.
BOBBY: He is from the city of Oakland, so he carries—
DAVID: I’m so sorry.
BOBBY: Hey.
ALEX: Yeah. I appreciate it.
BOBBY: I think actually the last time we recorded in your apartment, Alex, was the A’s—
ALEX: Yeah, the emergency stadium.
BOBBY: —emergency— they’re moving to Las Vegas pod.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: I listened to that pod.
BOBBY: Which was—
DAVID: It’s tough, man.
BOBBY: Bummer town.
ALEX: A real bummer town.
DAVID: You’re from— so you’re from Oakland.
ALEX: So I’m from Oakland’s—
DAVID: So you’re about to lose your last team.
ALEX: Yes. Quite literally.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Just what I said.
ALEX: It’s— I think the latest update is they want to play in Salt Lake City.
BOBBY: Giuliani sighting. Giuliani sighting.
ALEX: Go for it.
BOBBY: Giuliani sighting.
DAVID: Yeah. He was there. I mean, it’s— this was the 9/11 year. I mean, this was the—
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: This is the bat— this is the— the flip.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Is it— is it in this playoffs or is it in the next—
BOBBY: No.
DAVID: I forget when the flip was.
BOBBY: You mean the flip where he was safe?
ALEX: Right. Exactly. No, I think it was— it must have been the year before, right?
DAVID: Look, this was the one we kind of rooted for the Yankees, I’m sorry. It— I know that sounds so trite.
BOBBY: I was five, so I didn’t really root for anyone.
DAVID: Root— can I swear?
BOBBY: Yeah, you can swear as much as you like.
ALEX: Yeah, that’s fine.
DAVID: I love asking if I can swear on other people’s podcast. All right. Alex, I’m sorry.
ALEX: I— no, no, no, not at all. I— I have never read Moneyball. I will just— I will just say, which like is always— again—
DAVID: That is crazy.
ALEX: It is— it is crazy.
DAVID: It’s a pretty good read.
BOBBY: Did I—
ALEX: I should read it.
DAVID: It’s not hard to read it.
ALEX: And my— my excuse has always been like—
BOBBY: Did I know this?
ALEX: Yeah. You’ve talked— we’ve talked about this, I think, at— at length on the podcast.
BOBBY: My brain is suplexed. [6:14]
DAVID: Oh, man, look at Pitt. He’s so pissy.
BOBBY: He’s just like me for real.
ALEX: My excuse has always been like, “Oh, it’s the A’s. I grew up watching them.”
BOBBY: You lived it.
ALEX: “I lived it.” whatever.
BOBBY: Sure.
ALEX: But also, I was like five years old, like can I really say that I lived— like was I—
DAVID: Okay. So you were five years old for this, right?
ALEX: Yes. Right.
DAVID: You guys are the same age, right?
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I was 15, guys.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: I was 15 and I was a deep baseball nerd.
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
DAVID: And I— I— this— this was an exciting team.
ALEX: It really was.
BOBBY: So at 15 years old— this is an important question, because I— I almost feel like we should get all of the anti-Moneyball propaganda elements of the podcasts out of the way.
DAVID: Before he’s even started doing it.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Maybe, because— I mean, everybody listening to this, presumably has seen the movie Moneyball and know—
DAVID: Oh, probably.
BOBBY: —knows what’s coming, you know? Some— some real—
DAVID: Yeah. And also, if you want to watch Moneyball— this is— we— we do commentaries on Blank Check and I’m like, “If someone wants to just watch the movie, they’re not gonna listen to this.”
BOBBY: Hopefully not.
DAVID: Like this is more for— yeah, yeah, yeah. People— people aren’t really gonna sit this out.
BOBBY: And we— we know what happened with Moneyball. They erased the three-headed monster of the starting pitching and made it seem like it didn’t happen at all. And they just made it seem like Chris Pratt save the A’s.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: But if we’re going to talk about Moneyball, like up top, so when you were 15—
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: Did you have any awareness of like the idea of Moneyball?
DAVID: No.
BOBBY: What Billy Beane was doing?
DAVID: No.
BOBBY: You just thought it was like a fun plucky underdog team?
DAVID: Exactly. Yeah, I don’t think I read enough. So I lived in Britain at the time, and when I moved to Britain, age nine, I was a big baseball fan and I clung to baseball, kind of dropped my other American sports. I think because baseball is such a pen and paper sport. I could still get the scores. We got the—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —Herald Tribune, which was like an International Paper and you could read the scores.
BOBBY: Nice.
DAVID: And I would like read Sports Illustrated, I guess. And I— and you could watch TV late at night and watch baseball. So I don’t think— if there were— were there pieces being written at the time about like, “Hey, Billy Beane’s doing something different over here.”? I don’t even know. This is our pre-internet. This is like— you know, I knew they were a cheap team, but I associated the 2001 A’s with Barry Zito and Mark Mulder, and— wait, who’s the third guy?
ALEX: Tim Hudson.
BOBBY: We always— we always forget the third guy, Tim Hudson.
ALEX: Tim Hudson. Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Who was good.
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah.
DAVID: And, like, I don’t think I even really had that sort of sense of like—
BOBBY: Here’s your man, Alex.
DAVID: —”Oh, man, they lost Giambi.” Like—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —they’re, like— you know, like, the A’s were always good. That was kind of what they were. Like, they were the Rays now.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Where it was like, “Oh, yeah, they’re kind of a cheap team, but like, yeah, they always figure it out.” And there’s always, like, new young guys and, like, that’s what they are. That’s the A’s. And they play in the AL West, where everyone’s good, and they always sort of like, you know, scrape it out.
ALEX: Yeah. This— Oakland A’s owner Stephen Schott right here played by Activision and Blizzard CEO, the— the one who’s, like, got in a lot of trouble over the last few years for his, like [9:05]
BOBBY: [9:05]
DAVID: I did not know that— who that is.
ALEX: —his, like, abusive relationship with like—
DAVID: Yeah, he— he’s totally—
BOBBY: He’s the one—
DAVID: —canceled now.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: [9:10]
DAVID: And I think it was probably hot stuff, you know, 15 years.
BOBBY: Wow. Deep cut.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Look at you with the fucking IMDb trivia [9:16]
DAVID: He really— you know what, though? He’s great casting.
ALEX: He is great. He is—
DAVID: Like him in this sweater, you’re—
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: —like, “Yeah.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm. I’d buy it. 100%.
BOBBY: Directors love to do this shit where when they have like a— like a random cameo of an important person, they love to put a non-actor in that role to make it seem like he’s a business tycoon. Like, they did this in Social Network, too, right?
DAVID: They did this in Social Network with Douglas Urbanski.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: They do it here again with Spike Jones. I mean, he’s—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: —sort of an act— you know, like, yeah, I do think—
BOBBY: Is he not, like, even credited in this movie?
DAVID: He may not be.
ALEX: No, I don’t think so [9:41]
DAVID: He’s— you know, he’s cool like that, you know?
ALEX: So sick
BOBBY: [9:43]
DAVID: This just feels—
BOBBY: Like, come— come home, baby. Direct another movie.
DAVID: This does feel super realistic, though, right? Billy Beane probably did go to this guy every year and go like—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: —”Hey, by the way, like any interest in spending more than like $30 million?” And the guy was always just like, “Oh, you’re— you always do great.”
ALEX: “You’re doing great.”
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: You’re— we’re a small market team, you’re a small market GM. That’s it right there, dude. That’s the whole Tipping Pitches Podcast, born of this.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Okay. So— so what— okay. So your guys’ main beef with the movie is it— that it smoothens out some of the facts of the Oakland A’s.
ALEX: I— to be honest, I’m— again, not having read the book. I— I hear the book has some of the similar shortcomings of maybe obscuring the ways in which the— the team is put together— when it comes to the movie, I kind of find myself not caring just as much—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —because it’s, like, not what the movie is about, right? I mean, yeah, they’re—
DAVID: And also like, what he did was important.
ALEX: Right. Exactly.
DAVID: Like, it’s not like—
ALEX: You’re talking about, like, institutional change in a sport that like— like, this is a kind of, you know, I don’t know, siren for, like, what was to come in the industry.
DAVID: That’s the thing.
ALEX: Well—
BOBBY: I think that my beef with Moneyball— I mean— I mean, part— partially, the book, partially—
ALEX: The— the— the book, the movie, or the concept?
DAVID: Yeah, you have to say Moneyball movie, Moneyball concept, we have to say it.
BOBBY: Kind of all three.
DAVID: All right, fine. All three.
ALEX: All right.
BOBBY: But mostly the concept is that— it just is not the type of thing that needed to be applied to everything in life.
DAVID: Well, that’s fine. But—
BOBBY: The lessons we learned from this—
DAVID: What?
BOBBY: —were the wrong ones.
DAVID: But there’s kind of a bitterness and darkness to this movie—
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: —that makes the movie okay to me, where it’s like the movie is not just like, “And he was right.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: “And he cramped it up all their asses, and he won.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: It’s like he was kind of ahead of the game, and he was smart about things. And they got lucky and won a playoff— yeah, got into the playoffs and then they lost. Like— like, the— the triumph is, you know, mediocre.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: And like—
ALEX: We’re already at iconic scenes.
DAVID: This [11:48]
BOBBY: Waste no time.
DAVID: I’ve watched this scene 4 billion times on YouTube. I don’t know about you guys.
ALEX: I was kind of saying that before we started rolling to him, just like— I would just go on at, like, 1:00 AM—
DAVID: It’s— like that guy’s a real scout, right? Like, he like— he like—
BOBBY: Yes [11:59]
DAVID: —half these guys— like that guy over there, that’s Nick Searcy. That’s an actor. This guy’s an actor, right?
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: But like a couple— you know, some of the— the really crusty guys are—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —are true scouts.
BOBBY: This is sort of a tough watchalong movie because they talk really fast. The dialogue pings back and forth. But this scene in particular is the most memorable from this movie.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I mean—
DAVID: Well, especially because Pitt is doing what he, like, starts to understand about himself as a movie star later in his career. Early in his career, he was motormouth a lot of the time.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: And he starts to realize like, “Oh, I’m like— me simmering is actually very powerful.”
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: The droll [12:35] and the ground toss to myself, yeah. If he’s a good hitter, why doesn’t he hit good?
ALEX: Got an ugly girlfriend.
DAVID: Ugly girlfriend means no confidence. You told me that you subscribed to that theory. The ugly girlfriend theory—
BOBBY: Yeah. Yeah.
DAVID: —about everybody.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly. You just go around—
DAVID: I mean, podcast engineers are like, “Ugly girlfriend, no confidence.” The— my favorite— and it might not be this one. It might be another scout scene as the guys like, “The all explodes off his bat.”
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Like, he’s talking about it, where I’m like, “That does sound great. What does that mean?”
BOBBY: It does.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: “Like, what are you talking about?”
ALEX: Well, that’s one of the great things about this movie. And— and again, a testament to the fact that, like, a lot of these guys are actual scouts.
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: Who were just using their natural parlance, but like—
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: It does feel so real. This is what these conversations went, like, for— for century.
DAVID: For— forever. And like that’s the thing about when people complain about Barry Zito and Mark Mulder and all that, I’m like, “Look, man, when I was 15, I was obsessed with wins and losses. Like, I’m willing to accept that was basically nonsense.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: You know, like, I was obsessed with a lot of stats, that now I’m kind of like, “Well, even at the time, if you’d sat me down and been like, ‘Hey, you understand that it doesn’t really matter what a pitcher’s win-loss record is, right?’”
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Like, I would have been like, “I guess that makes sense.” And they were just cramming this in the Sports Illustrated. It was like, “Oh, this guy had 24 wins. Can you believe it?” It’s like, “I don’t know. Yeah, that’s the best.” Like, maybe they weren’t all that mattered.
BOBBY: Do you think— here— here’s another question that I have. Do you think Billy Beane was this much of a prick all the time?
DAVID: I don’t— you know what? I actually don’t know much about Billy Beane’s reputation as a dude. Have— he’s still around. What’s his— his—
ALEX: He is.
BOBBY: Yeah, he’s like a senior [14:11]
ALEX: At this point, he’s like—
DAVID: What’s his, like, public persona?
BOBBY: He is—
DAVID: I mean, he is handsome. Like, he has, like— he has like a handsome player look.
ALEX: He’s— he’s handsome. He’s— right. He does. He— yeah, I— I don’t know. He’s, I mean, kind of faded out of public eye even more over the last few years.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: I don’t know, running soccer teams in Europe or whatever. But, like, has notoriously been a very sort of private, reserved—
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: —guy, who’s not bombastic or anything like that.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: I— but I believe that he maybe had a bit of an edge to him in these conversations.
DAVID: And he had to, like, rattle these— Pitt— I mean, look, I’ll talk about Pitt in a second. But read the book, the book is good, but the book— a lot of the book is about Bill James, like—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: —which obviously this can’t get into.
BOBBY: Right.
DAVID: And all that’s— all that—
BOBBY: And I think they, like, briefly mentioned him when the [14:57]
DAVID: They mentioned him, but like, you know—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: There— there are chapters in the book that are about like— let me— let me make you understand what Bill James did.
BOBBY: That’s my favorite line I’m reading in the whole movie.
DAVID: I mean, it’s incredible.
BOBBY: “What the fuck are you talking about, man?” Anyway, the book.
DAVID: So all that stuff’s interesting, and then the personal stuff about Billy Beane being drafted by the Mets—
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: —you know, this prospect who didn’t work out, all that—
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: —is interesting. The— the A’s stuff is— is fine. That’s the spine of the book. He gets that there needs to be like a triumph.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: But it’s really— I— what I remember is like the Bill James stuff, is the stuff where I was— like, having my eyes opened about a sport I loved.
BOBBY: This is why it’s so shocking to me that you never read this book, Alex, because, like you and I were raised by an internet that took this book and made a whole media career out of it. You know, they like [15:48]
ALEX: Right. They like took as Bible.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly. And like—
ALEX: [15:52]
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: —you and I grew up reading fucking Baseball Prospectus, and FanGraphs, and all these places that took the foundational Bill James stuff, which was made public by this book.
DAVID: See, I didn’t have that.
BOBBY: And built whole content arms off of it.
DAVID: Here’s what I had. I’m gonna sound like such an old— I had baseball cards, which I was obsessed with. I had—
ALEX: What— what— you had what?
DAVID: The—
ALEX: I’m— I’m not familiar.
DAVID: I still got them. I’ve still got all my baseball cards from like—
BOBBY: You have those as NFTs now or—
ALEX: Right. Exactly. Yes.
DAVID: It’s from like ’91 to ’93. like that’s my baseball card collection. You know, you want a Steve Farr, I’ve got, like, six. It was the Game Gear game World Series Baseball, which was surprisingly in-depth, like had every single player on it, all their averages, and everything—
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: —like that, so you learn everyone’s names and stuff. And then it was like Sports Illustrated, like reading Sports Illustrated. That was all I had for, like, learning—
BOBBY: Now they’re taking that away.
DAVID: —how baseball works. Yeah, they are taking that away. That Sports Illustrated baseball preview issue was the most important thing in my life every year.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Like, when that came out.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah. This is so good.
ALEX: There’s— there’s the chief.
BOBBY: Well, this is like Billy on his sort of, like, self-discovery mission—
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: —is tremendous movie stuff.
ALEX: I will say, I don’t know how true to life it is—
DAVID: [17:10]
ALEX: —that he always had a shirt half unbuttoned.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: That may have been—
DAVID: But like this guy feels right too, right? Like, the polo shirt.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: This is Mark Shapiro, right?
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: But the actor is Reed Diamond, right? You guys know Reed Diamond?
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: Kind of.
ALEX: No.
DAVID: So in The Shield, in the pilot episode of The Shield, you think he’s in the show? He’s like in the main credits.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: He was on Homicide: Life on the Street before then, at the end of the first episode. And he’s playing the guy who’s trying to work his way into the corrupt cops to catch him.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: The end of the first episode, Michael Chiklis shoots him in the face, and he dies. And you’re like, “What?” And like in 2003, like that was not [17:50]
BOBBY: Psycho moment [17:51]
DAVID: It was crazy.
ALEX: [17:53] honestly.
BOBBY: We need to do more stuff like that.
DAVID: Shoot people in the face?
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Okay. So—
BOBBY: It’s kind of wild that this like— he doesn’t get a screen writing— like, for writing the book, he doesn’t get a screenwriting credit on this movie. This is like— I know it’s adapted from real life, but like, it’s pretty beat for beat, the book.
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: He does pull some, like, lines from the book.
BOBBY: Yeah
DAVID: What— what is this?
ALEX: Once again, it’s all I’m told.
DAVID: Come on, man. You gotta— you gotta get in final draft. You gotta hit your tabs. It’s Zaillian, and Sorkin, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: And you can tell—
BOBBY: Stan Chervin as well?
DAVID: He might have done it, because there were a lot of versions of this movie, and there’s the— the famous Soderbergh version, where David Justice was gonna play himself and like—
ALEX: Right. Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: [18:39] was gonna be—
ALEX: They were gonna have like Lenny Dykstra and like—
DAVID: Yes.
ALEX: —Darryl Strawberry in it.
DAVID: It— it— I think he was— he was trying— he was like, “How do we get the stats in there?”
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: “Like, we’ll get like— we’ll have like pop-ups.” And I forget what studio it is. It’s not Sony. It’s eventually just like, “Dude, we can’t do this.”
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: This sounds insane. And they— they— and then— and then it’s gonna get turned around against it, right? Yeah, I love this, though. Right. Like, the— the grumpy old scouts—
BOBBY: I—
DAVID: “Well, yeah, sure, trade that guy.” And Jonah Hill was like—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —”Nice spreadsheet.”
ALEX: I think I would watch this movie if it was only Brad Pitt eating peanuts. Just— just sitting there, just like wrapping them around a little bit.
BOBBY: Popping them?
DAVID: I think it’s around notional Ocean— Ocean’s 11 when he figures it out, right? Like, the— his superpower is eating on screen.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: And he just like builds it into so many characters. And now if I met Billy Beane and if he wasn’t, like, eating nuts, I’d be like, “Are you— who are you? You’re— you’re not Billy Beane. Like, what the—”
BOBBY: You’re like a poor Elvis impersonation of Billy Beane.
DAVID: Do you think this is what this is like?
BOBBY: No.
DAVID: It’s not— like maybe it was back in the day a little more.
BOBBY: I don’t even— but like—
ALEX: At this point, I don’t even think—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: It wasn’t just two GMs sitting down.
BOBBY: I— I almost think that, like, GMs basically never talk face-to-face, except for at the GM meetings, which is why they’re such a big deal.
DAVID: So you don’t— you don’t think they ever, like, call each other and—
BOBBY: I think they may— they might like call or text, but I— I don’t—
DAVID: But they— oh, you’re saying like face-to-face?
BOBBY: I don’t get the impression that they’re, like—
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: —face-to-face hammering it out, because the—
DAVID: It— it— it’s a movie convention. He has to— like, it can’t all be phone calls, right?
ALEX: [20:10]
BOBBY: Yeah. Well, he has to meet Jonah’s character here.
DAVID: And he has to meet Jonah here. Right.
BOBBY: Who, by the way, the— he’s nothing like the mark— like Mark DePodesta, who the character is supposedly based. I mean, it’s like a couple characters rolled into one.
DAVID: But I believe that’s why he’s named something else.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Because they’ve decided, right, he doesn’t really fit.
BOBBY: But he is basically just like analytics come to life.
DAVID: Right, because he’s the solo numbers boy.
BOBBY: That is the whole—
ALEX: He’s like the amalgamation of everything that was going on—
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —at that point.
DAVID: But I think it’s a brilliant performance and like he was not— you know, he had not done anything like this when this movie came out, right? He’s not just [20:47]
ALEX: Right. He’s like— he’s— I was like— I was like, “Oh, the super bad guy.”
DAVID: Right. And why I like him in this movie is that he really loves baseball. Like, you can tell that he, like, loves baseball.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Even though he’s this annoying nerd with spreadsheets. Like it’d be so easy for this character to just sort of be like, “Yeah, I don’t even watch the game.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: “Like, I— I just know how to do math.”
ALEX: It is pretty remarkable the— the feat of this movie to be completely about baseball, as seen through spreadsheets—
BOBBY: Which is like—
ALEX: —and yet— and yet, I still tear up like through— like throughout the movie.
DAVID: Me, too. But, like, I don’t watch a lot of baseball right now, because I have a kid.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: A young kid. And I mostly experienced baseball through spreadsheets, right?
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: And I think that’s true for a lot of people. Wow. He doesn’t care what his name [21:40]
BOBBY: He doesn’t know— no, he doesn’t give a rat’s ass.
DAVID: He doesn’t give one rat’s ass.
BOBBY: He’s a straight shooter respected by all.
DAVID: Was he working with the Indians, DePodesta? Like does Beane poach him this year? Is this also somewhat streamlined?
ALEX: No, he had been with the A’s, actually, for a few years at this point.
DAVID: So they’re kind of—
ALEX: He joined them like ’98 or ’99.
DAVID: Right [22:07]
ALEX: So, again, like a little movie magic there.
DAVID: Right. It’s fine. So— so you’re an A’s fan, but when do you really get into the— like, into baseball?
ALEX: Yeah. I mean— I mean, I watched the A’s grow, like I have— I have like—
DAVID: Memories of this—
ALEX: I have like— I have this, like, season— some of these games on, like, VHS and so like in the years afterwards, I would be like, “Oh, I’m going back to watch the 2002, like, A’s playoff game or whatever.”
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: The win streak, yeah.
ALEX: The win streak, yeah. I— I was gonna say this later when we actually had the win streak, but I— in my house growing up, we had this, like, giveaway bottle opener—
DAVID: Okay.
ALEX: —that we’d got from some sort of A’s game. And when you open, like, a bottle or like a, you know, soda or whatever, it would play Bill King’s, like, radio call—
DAVID: Okay.
ALEX: —of the 20-game win streak. And I loved— I killed the battery on it because I would open the drawer, and then just press it over and over because I was like, “This is the coolest thing ever. I have nothing to drink right now, but—
BOBBY: This is it. This is— to me, this is what makes the Jonah performance—
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: —actually good. I think maybe people were a little bit just, like, struck by the fact that he— this was his first dramatic role.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: But this is pretty amazing shit right here.
DAVID: He’s— yeah.
BOBBY: [23:28]
ALEX: An imperfect idea of where the runs come from. I’m like, “Oh, my God. Just [23:36] it all.”
DAVID: Was Johnny Damon worth over 7.5 million a year? He probably was. That’s the thing— that’s the thing about this movie is he’s right, but then also at the same time, I’m like, “Yeah, but Johnny Damon, like, won a— won a World Series with the Red Sox.” Like—
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: —he didn’t do it alone.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: But like he was kind of pivotal.
ALEX: That’s why, like, I feel like with us watching this movie, it’s very interesting, because I’m like— I emotionally am rooting for this team for this guy that I’m watching—
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: —right? And— and also, well, I should probably pay them all, right? Like I know Stephen Schott got the cash [24:08] around a little more.
DAVID: Oh, sure. You have to just accept the truth, which is true, right? There’s like— yeah, there’s some cheap-ass owners and—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: —that’s what Billy Beane— Billy Beane was dealing with.
BOBBY: And those are seen as their sports teams, that’s [24:16]
ALEX: That’s right. Spoiler alert.
DAVID: They play in a concrete hellhole. No offense to— if you— if you [24:24]
ALEX: None taken.
BOBBY: So— the hate on the Coliseum is so overrated. It’s a totally normal place to watch a ballgame.
ALEX: There you go.
BOBBY: It’s like— it’s— it could not be—
DAVID: I don’t know, man.
BOBBY: I mean, obviously, like, there’s some sewage and stuff, you know?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like, it needs some [24:37]
DAVID: It’s not great. It’s too big.
BOBBY: Bu— but why? They have half of it closed off. I mean—
DAVID: That’s what I’m talking about. It’s kind of a weird vibe.
BOBBY: But when you’re there, like you can still see the game. You can still—
DAVID: You can see the game. I’m like— one of my best friends, Ellen, is a— is a Bay Area native who is an Oakland A’s season ticket holder for many years as well.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: And, you know, she would stick up for the Coliseum to a point.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: But she— you know, it’s not—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —the— it’s not the spiffiest place.
ALEX: No, it is not. But I will say like in terms of— again, like streamlined baseball viewing experience that—
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: —you can get from the gate to, like, view of the field in, like, 20 seconds.
DAVID: That’s— that’s [25:15]
ALEX: Which would most— you know, like we’ll go up the elevator, and we’ll go down around the concourse. And it just— it does feel very, like, streamlined, just this postmodern like, “Nope, it’s just concrete and baseball in the middle.”
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: I’m like, “All right. I’ll take it.”
BOBBY: It could be worse.
ALEX: It could be worse.
DAVID: Well, what is worse? What’s a bad stadium to you? And I’m someone who has not been to a lot of [25:36]
BOBBY: I have to, like, tread lightly here because people get really offended by stadium chat.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: You guys aren’t allowed to talk shit about stadiums on your podcast?
BOBBY: Angel Stadium is horrendous.
DAVID: Never been there. Why would I go there?
BOBBY: It’s— it’s like— it’s—
DAVID: It’s best that team should be wiped off the mat. I’m sorry. Or— or moved. I would move them.
BOBBY: It’s confounding that—
DAVID: Am I gonna get in trouble for saying—
BOBBY: —in a place that is so beautiful, Southern California—
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: —that is so naturally beautiful.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: They chose to put fake mountains in center field and draw attention to how fake they look.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: They’re just, like, right there on the broadcast. It looked so fake. That’s a pretty bad stadium, I would say. I— the— I haven’t been in person, but the Rangers new stadium, Globe Life Field, is just horrendously ugly on television and—
DAVID: It looks bad.
BOBBY: [0:26:17] it’s really bad.
DAVID: I— I watched the World Series, obviously, right, it did look crummy. And their last stadium was all right.
BOBBY: Marlins stadium, terrible, awful, feels like a natatorium, like a high school natatorium—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —when the roof is closed.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Also kind of like smells like a natatorium. Like, why does it smell like chlorine?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, you’re playing a baseball game.
DAVID: Well, have you been to the Trop? I’ve been to the Trop.
BOBBY: I have not been to the Trop.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: That place is insane.
BOBBY: Alex, have you been to the Trop?
ALEX: I have not been to the Trop.
DAVID: That feels like it should be, like, condemned, though, Like, that just feels odd.
ALEX: Yeah. Well, they’re trying.
DAVID: I know they’re trying and it’s like— I mean, like— I— I mean
BOBBY: No, no. They’re not trying to be condemn it. They’re trying to just play half their games there and half of their games in Montreal.
DAVID: That’s so offensive.
BOBBY: The worst idea ever.
DAVID: But like that’s— that’s a team and the— I mean, no offense to any, you know, Tampa residents or Anaheim residents, but like those teams should just move. Move them immediately. Like if I was just— our sports, there’s like six teams across the— for sports.
BOBBY: You’re not the [27:07]
DAVID: I wish I was.
BOBBY: Well, I don’t know why we invited you for this.
DAVID: Like— and I would just kind of be, like, you don’t deserve to be here and these— these guys deserve a team.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Like, this is just happening.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Right? And the Angels—
ALEX: And as a— as a— as a fan of a team who’s currently being moved, I can’t wade into this—
DAVID: Your team should exist, though.
ALEX: —too— too deeply. I do think it should— they should exist.
DAVID: Yeah. That— that’s like— yeah. That— that’s a fan base that’s being mistreated.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: I mean, I assume there are Angels fans. I’ve never met an Angels fan. But like people do show up to those games.
BOBBY: I mean, there are significantly—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —more Angels— Angels fans now after the last five years and Shohei Ohtani playing for that team.
DAVID: Uh-hmm. I think so.
BOBBY: But I think that all of them are probably—
DAVID: [27:44]
BOBBY: —are Dodgers fans now.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: I mean, that team is sick.
BOBBY: I don’t know why they talk like [27:48] accents, but—
DAVID: He should not be allowed to move— that should also be banned. What if I just do baseball hot takes on this podcast?
BOBBY: Well, I actually was going to ask you to do some of that. So, wait, you’re anti-Ohtani to the Dodgers. Do you think it should be banned?
DAVID: Crosstown moves like that, if they happen—
BOBBY: Oh.
DAVID: —should prompt like, you know—
BOBBY: Like [28:04]
DAVID: [28:04] and the fact that it was just like— he’s just going to the Dodgers and was like, “That’s fine.” I’m like, “So this is just fake, that there are two LA teams.”
BOBBY: Yeah. Oh, well, they’re— they’re, like—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —legitimately like an hour and a half apart.
DAVID: I know they’re far from each other, but like, I’m just like— am I not— I’m not hearing from one Angels fan who’s like, “How dare he go to the hated Dodgers?” Like—
BOBBY: Look how beautiful that is. You don’t think that’s beautiful?
DAVID: Oh, God.
BOBBY: This is gorgeous.
DAVID: It’s so grim.
BOBBY: The executive office is in the fucking basement.
ALEX: The score in this movie knocks—
DAVID: Oh.
ALEX: —me on my ass every single—
DAVID: The explosions on this [28:34] yeah, yeah, yeah.
ALEX: Exactly. Like Friday Night Lights. Yeah.
DAVID: It’s so good. And it’s a perfect fit.
BOBBY: You should—
DAVID: That’s the thing. When you hear about all the other versions of this movie, you’re like, “Well, but that’s crazy, because, like, this is how you make the movie.”
BOBBY: It’s a perfect movie.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: Exactly. You can get yourself really just down a rabbit hole, trying to imagine how this movie would have been if it was made in any of the previous iterations of it.
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like I— I was listening— so I was just trying to listen to, like, a couple of people talk about Moneyball before we did this. And so I was listening to, like, you know, big picks, like Top 10 of the Decade that we did and the Rewatchables about Moneyball. And in the course of listening to the Top 10 of the Decade, Sean brought up Whiplash.
DAVID: Okay.
BOBBY: And I think it was like number four for him, which is a great— great movie, a tremendous movie.
DAVID: Yeah [29:15]
BOBBY: And he was talk— we were talking about Chazelle, they were talking about Chazelle.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: And he had not yet made Babylon, and he was like— his— his next movie is an old Hollywood project starring Emma Stone, which is obviously not what Babylon turned out to be [29:27]
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: Emma Stone was the reverse pick for it.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly. Margot Robbie, and it’s not— it’s like— it is about—
DAVID: I mean, it’s about old Hollywood.
BOBBY: It is about old Hollywood, but it’s also about like cocaine, just like—
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: —audacity and a lot of other things. And, you know, we maybe overrate some of that stuff, like how much movies changed and we should probably just talk about, like, the text and what is here in front of us, but—
DAVID: No, but it’s—
BOBBY: —when it’s like Steven Soderbergh instead of Bennett Miller, who didn’t really go on to have much of a— like—
DAVID: Well—
BOBBY: —[29:51] legacy to him, too. It’s like— it’s hard to imagine, because Soderbergh clearly is interested in sports movies, too, because was when he came— sports movies with, like, high-minded sports movies, because High Flying Bird—
DAVID: Yeah, High Flying Bird is a very interesting— it’s pro— High Flying Bird is probably has some of the leftover because it has those interviews—
BOBBY: The spiritual successor—
DAVID: —with Karl-Anthony Towns—
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: —and Reggie Jackson and stuff were— which are interesting. I like that.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: But that’s a movie about like labor, which is great. Like that’s a great way to make a sports movie.
BOBBY: Oh, my God. Look at the— look at the spreadsheet.
ALEX: It’s like [30:24]
BOBBY: Like, look at it right now, they just look so good.
DAVID: Algorithms. So many algorithms.
BOBBY: But I would argue that this is also a movie about labor. This is a movie about—
DAVID: It is. Sure. Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —identifying a labor market in the public baseball [30:34]
DAVID: A 100%. But like in this movie, the players are largely little puppets that he moves around.
BOBBY: I know.
DAVID: And the movie is sort of about how the players themselves, while he’s doing that, are like, “What the hell are you doing to me, man?” You know, but like—
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly.
DAVID: You know?
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: And I do think you can, like me, think baseball became this kind of like awful— well, he just said Bill James. You know, a lot of this Moneyball stuff kind of [30:59]
BOBBY: Drinking games for this, you just take a shot every time there’s a formula on the screen.
ALEX: God.
DAVID: Wow. Albert Pujols?
BOBBY: Talk about naming some guys— I feel like his hair changed a lot between the first scene and now.
DAVID: Well, he combed it.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: He’s excited for his new job.
ALEX: Yeah, new job.
DAVID: You can be rooting for what they’re doing—
BOBBY: This is so— so power-coded.
DAVID: Yes.
BOBBY: These movies are so closely—
DAVID: Well, this is one year after.
ALEX: Behind— right. Yeah.
DAVID: Yeah, they are very— they are very linked.
BOBBY: Chad Bradford—
DAVID: Yeah. That’s the thing. The— in the book, the Chad Bradford chapter is so good.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Not because you love Chad Bradford, but just because he’s like, “Let me help you understand how they—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —identified someone who just offended traditional baseball people—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —in ways that make no sense, right, like on paper. Did you like Chad Bradford? No, you’re too young to care.
ALEX: No, I— I did like Chad Radford. No, this— I mean, this whole team, like guys like Jermaine Dye and like Terrence long. Eric Chavez was my— was my guy.
DAVID: Did they ever say Terrence Long’s name in this movie?
BOBBY: I don’t think so.
ALEX: No, I don’t— I don’t think they do.
BOBBY: No. No.
DAVID: He fucking rocked.
BOBBY: Did they even say Eric Chavez’s in this movie? Did they say anybody who’s actually—
DAVID: Terrence Long—
BOBBY: —the best player on the team?
DAVID: —was one of those players where the ball exploded off his bat like a firework where—
ALEX: Yes. Right, exactly.
DAVID: —like— where he was like that, you know?
ALEX: Like that is an accurate representation, yeah.
DAVID: They never say Nick Swisher. There’s so much about Nick Swisher in the book.
BOBBY: Dude—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —Nick Swisher should be all fucking over this movie.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: He’s the most cinematic baseball player who has ever lived. He’s so funny. He’s like slapstick comedy.
DAVID: That’s what Michael Lewis is obsessed with in the book, where he’s like, “That’s one of the guys where both the nerds and the old school guys liked him.”
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And they got him. And they got him.
DAVID: And they got him. Right, right, right.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Like— but like—
BOBBY: And it was an open question, because they were like, “Oh, we’re not sure who’s gonna try to take him ahead of us.”
DAVID: Yes.
BOBBY: “Who’s gonna try to offer him more money in the draft and [32:40]
DAVID: They’re obsessed with him. They talked about Kevin Youkilis a lot, too.
BOBBY: They did.
ALEX: Right. Yeah.
BOBBY: The whole— the movie ends on Kevin Youkilis. I mean, no spoilers, but it’s like he’s fucking crushing [32:46]
DAVID: And the movie ends— so— okay.
BOBBY: Just like with me, Alex [0:32:48]
DAVID: I’m a Mets fan, Art Ho
we—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —is so different for me than he might be for you.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: I don’t know how you feel about Art Howe.
ALEX: Well, I don’t know how you feel about Art Howe. Now, I’m curious.
DAVID: Well, he was— he was— like to me, when we hired him, the epitome of like Mets, like, idiocy of like—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —”Oh, this guy just [0:33:10] against the A’s. We’ll hire him. He’ll make our team good.” And he was a horrible coach.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: For the Mets. Didn’t seem like a— didn’t have a great finesse with players.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: Like, just seem like an asshole, right? And then this movie comes out and everyone’s like, “God, this movie is so rude to Art Howe.” You know, Philip Seymour Hoffman looks nothing like him, makes him the villain. And I was like, “Yeah, fuck Art Howe.” Like this movie nails him into the wall. But then the A’s fans, I think, are like, “Well, he was—”
BOBBY: I think he [33:34]
DAVID: “You know, he was good. He was like Coach of the Year.”
BOBBY: I love [33:36] yes. This is like a baseball hot take and a Moneyball movie hot take.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: Where it just like—
DAVID: And I like this— I mean, Philip Seymour Hoffman is kind of overqualified for this—
BOBBY: Look at the size of the forearms, dawg.
DAVID: —like movie. Like—
ALEX: Yeah, it’s a very understated performance from him.
BOBBY: I know. Why would you cast me— why would you cast him in this if you were not gonna let him cook a little more?
DAVID: Well, he cooks, though. Like, he’s—
BOBBY: Is this movie one year before the Master or—
DAVID: One year before the Master, but you know, he—
BOBBY: Which I just watched last night [33:59]
DAVID: Miller had directed him to an Oscar—
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
DAVID: —in Capote, and so they— I’m sure just, you know, knew each other and he was like, “Come on, you know?”
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: “It’d be on the poster.”
ALEX: I kind of— the, like, quiet, simmering rage—
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: —that he displays throughout the movie is— is really, like, on point, though.
BOBBY: I think he, like, kind of nails baseball guy energy.
ALEX: Yes. Yeah.
DAVID: Right. That’s— and he has to just stand in for like, “Right now, I care about righty-lefty.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: “I care about, you know, whatever, fucking bunting,” or, you know, whatever it is you don’t like [0:34:27]
BOBBY: Right. Exactly. I care about defense. You know, I care about not having to teach my first baseman how to play first baseman.
DAVID: My guys have to have it.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Oh, this is so good.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: All the scouting scenes are really, really special.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Literally, every guy in— like Glenn Morshower, Jack McGee, Nick Searcy, these are— who are the actors, among these guys have all been on like FX shows. Like, you know what I mean? Like, tho— that’s who they are.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Like, they play like firemen, and cops—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —and, like, soldiers and shit. That guy must be— no, I don’t actually— that’s Nick Searcy.
ALEX: I— hmm.
DAVID: He loves to post about MAGA stuff on Twitter now.
ALEX: Okay. All right.
BOBBY: Some of these guys look like the— like Sopranos cast-offs.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Yeah. Do you think it’s fun being a scout? That must—
BOBBY: No.
DAVID: —stink, right?
BOBBY: No. That’s why all these guys have a fucking stick up their ass.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: They have to go to like Tuscaloosa to watch someone—
BOBBY: And then your GM passes it off to the nerds.
ALEX: Right. And then says, “Eh, we’ll run this through the— the system.”
DAVID: Yeah. The GM is like, “Yeah, I looked at a sheet of paper and—”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: “—your— your life is now worthless to me.” Right. This is another scene. I don’t know about you guys. TikTok serves me Moneyball all the time, that’s why—
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah. I’m not on TikTok.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: But, you know, Instagram, they’re the same thing.
DAVID: Yeah. Right.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Did Ron Washington just die? He just died, right? No, he just got hired.
ALEX: No, he’s— he just—
DAVID: He’s with us. He’s with us.
ALEX: He’s with the Angels now.
DAVID: I almost— I was like, “Ron Washington was just in the news. Is he dead?” This is like—
BOBBY: Did this happen while I was setting up the audio equipment?
DAVID: Wait— I know. I was like, why is he the head coach of the Angels?
ALEX: Yeah, he is.
BOBBY: Is he really?
ALEX: I think so, yeah.
DAVID: That’s kind of a— that’s a wild—
BOBBY: That’s rude.
DAVID: I mean, I—
BOBBY: That’s rude.
DAVID: I— so I love Ron Washington, who I feel—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —like it’s also unfashionable now.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: But I liked him when he was a coach.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: And I love that in this movie, he’s the kind of, like, the intermediary between Billy and—
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: —old school baseball.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Which now—
DAVID: Which he likes it, but he also is like, “This is gonna be hard.” Like, you know—
BOBBY: The intermediary figure, like the baseball guy, or the former baseball player who also understands analytics and can be, you know, a— a keen, like, liaise in business terms between like all the nerds, and the risk analysts, and all this bullshit with the baseball guys and help them explain it. Like, that’s a whole fucking genre of a guy now. Like, A.J. Hinch is that dude.
DAVID: Hmm.
BOBBY: You know? And that’s why they wanted to hire him to run the Astros. That’s why they—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —wanted to hire him to run the Tigers. Like—
DAVID: You need, right, somebody who can talk to both sides.
BOBBY: You need someone who can— who can basically, like, translate code switch for lack of a better term.
DAVID: Yeah. No, that makes sense.
BOBBY: And this movie, I think, like— and just the book too, I mean, introduces the idea that that was going to be like a 20-year problem that organizations were going to have to figure out. And I don’t think they have figured it out.
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: Like you hear, like, Yankees brain, the Yankees are always like, “We want to do less analytics.”
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: And you’re just like, “What— I thought we fucking— haven’t you guys watched Moneyball?”
DAVID: But I do feel like that’s true for a lot of sports. Those big teams are kind of like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: “—Can we not do this, though?”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Like, you know?
BOBBY: Not only— yeah, not basketball, though. Everybody is just launching threes, you know?
DAVID: Less basketball. Yeah. There’s always like one team a year in basketball that, like, half-heartedly is like, “Now, we’re gonna— we’re gonna go big this year. We’re gonna go big.” And then, like, you know, that doesn’t work and no one ever talks about it.
ALEX: So much of it is messaging. Like, it’s not like the Yankees word of the analytics team, either. Like, I’m like, “You guys let Joe Girardi, like, run things. You’ve let Aaron Boone run things. Like you’re— you’re okay.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: “You’re not leaning too far in.” Also, watch his sweater.”
BOBBY: It’s really special, yeah.
ALEX: His sweater is actually throughout this movie—
BOBBY: Yeah, it’s really good.
ALEX: —on another level.
DAVID: Gets on base.
ALEX: Gets on base.
DAVID: But, like, I know, it’s trite, but when I read that goddamn book, and it was like, “You know what’s important? Walks in, getting hit by a pitch.” I’m like, “It is?”
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: And it’s just the same as when basketball— as a teenager, someone finally was like, “You know, three is more than two.”
BOBBY: Three is more— is more than two.” Not only is it—
ALEX: I was like, “Yeah, but they’re so hard to hit.” And they were like, “Not that hard, considering you get an extra point.”
BOBBY: It’s not just more than two, it’s just— it’s 50%—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —more to do, you know? Like, this is not an insignificant amount.
DAVID: And like the way those two simple things, in the two sports, like completely under— you know— and, like, me as a teenager, I was like, “Okay, I’m on board. You convinced me.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Like, the— the whole, yeah, organizations had to be like, “Well, what if just the [38:58] flew off their bat, though? Like, you know, how hot is their girlfriend?” Yeah, six and a half weeks doesn’t sound that long.
ALEX: Yeah, that’s— that’s not that long.
BOBBY: Nobody wants to work anymore. I— I have a question.
DAVID: Do you—
BOBBY: I have a Moneyball legacy question.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: Moneyball the movie book or concept?
BOBBY: Moneyball the concept.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Why do you think Business Bros latched onto it like it was cocaine?
DAVID: It’s really— it’s really a good sweater. ‘Cause it means you don’t— I mean— like, I mean— I mean, not to generalize about Business Bros, but—
BOBBY: I would like to know.
DAVID: —you don’t have to be [39:46]
BOBBY: The whole point of this podcast is generalizing about Business Bros.
DAVID: Right. You don’t have to be like a good athlete with an actual sense of sports in an old-fashioned way to, like, be smarter than everyone else in— in a room, I guess.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Did Business Bros latch on— see, this— I don’t interact with Business Bros. You are always going to Business Bro parties.
ALEX: Right. Bobby is in a business cap with them and— yeah.
DAVID: Right, right, right, right, right.
BOBBY: I’m at a lot of Venture Capital meetings.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You know, it’s [40:11] always come to me.
ALEX: Trying to get us funding.
DAVID: And are— are they always, like, arguing with you about like W-H-I-P, or whatever. I’m trying to think of like, what— what— what did it— Jaws.
BOBBY: They always love— they love isolated power. I don’t know why.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: I used to only kind of understand slugging percentage. Like, I’m not—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —great on baseball stats. Like, my whole problem was also, like, they— you know, I was sat down as a child and was like, “You want your average? Give me .300. Your homerun should be 30 and your RBIs needs to be 100.” And I was like—
BOBBY: Yeah. Cool.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. It’s— it’s really hard to let that go. Even for me—
DAVID: It’s really hard to let that go.
ALEX: —it’s something— it’s like, “Yeah, I’ve been— been doing that for a year.” And then—
DAVID: What’s a good slugging percentage?
ALEX: It’s like .450.
DAVID: Is that true?
ALEX: Right? That’s—
DAVID: I don’t know. .500?
BOBBY: .450 is a good slugging percentage. It depends, because it’s— it’s more— OPS is more important.
DAVID: I know it is.
BOBBY: It’s always [40:58]
DAVID: But I don’t care about that.
BOBBY: The average OPS is usually between .700 and .800 depending on the year.
DAVID: Okay.
BOBBY: Depending on how good [41:05]
DAVID: So if I have an OPS of, like, .900, I’m—
BOBBY: You’re very good.
ALEX: Yeah [41:09]
BOBBY: [41:09]
DAVID: So if I have an OPS of 1, right, that’s really good.
BOBBY: So if you have an OPS of a thousand, you’re like an MVP, basically.
ALEX: I—
BOBBY: Like, you’re Mike Trout.
ALEX: I love the—
DAVID: I remember all this, but—
ALEX: I love that little wrinkle of baseball statistics that are like, “This is everything like boiled down into one number.” And then we just subtracted it from another one. Isolated power, well, subtract OBP from slugging. And there you go. Or add them together and you have a whole different— so I’m like, “You can do that? I could have just been adding home runs and stolen bases?”
DAVID: Pratt, great in this movie.
BOBBY: Yeah. And it’s the last time he’s good.
DAVID: I don’t think that’s true. Although, obviously, he has turned it to a—
BOBBY: A terrible actor?
DAVID: Just a weirdly charmless actor for a guy who was a charming actor.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Not like funny, whatsoever at all anymore?
DAVID: No, not really. It— for me, like, again, like, I’m— how old am I? 2011, Jesus. I’m 25 years old, yes, when this movie came out. Saw it in theaters. Chris Pratt was the guy from Everwood and The O.C., which are shows I watched as a teenager. And then he had kind of gone away, and then he returned on Parks and Rec and was chubby.
BOBBY: I can’t believe we missed, “Tell him, Wash.” It’s incredibly hard.
DAVID: It’s incredibly hard. Yeah, it’s the best part of the movie.
BOBBY: Goddammit. It’s my fault.
DAVID: I’m talking over this.
BOBBY: Fuck, fuck, fuck.
DAVID: We were talking about Chris Pratt.
ALEX: Reminded.
DAVID: But it was just so weird to see him here, like, sort of in baseball shape.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: And it was kind of like, you know, “Ah, good for him. He got in shape.” He’s amazing.
BOBBY: I find him kind of like amazing in this movie for somebody that I absolutely hate.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Just like—
DAVID: He’s perfect for this. Like—
ALEX: He’s perfect.
BOBBY: He’s a charisma vacuum to me now. He does nothing for me.
ALEX: But—
DAVID: Well—
ALEX: And what’s great about baseball players is most of them are—
BOBBY: Charismatic.
DAVID: I was about to say like—
ALEX: —charismatic vacuums, [42:52] so like he’s—
DAVID: —like his performance here is whether or not—
BOBBY: Those genes [42:56] for him?
DAVID: —it’s intentional— right. It nails what a Scott Hatteberg type would be, which is like, yeah—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —like, kind of like a door doofy guy who’s friendly.
BOBBY: Right. Yeah.
ALEX: Who just wants— who just wants to play baseball and be with his family.
DAVID: He plays baseball.
BOBBY: Okay. It’s a closed loop on the Business Bros thing from a business [43:09]
DAVID: Yeah. Why do you think— you— you have an answer to your own question.
BOBBY: I just think people got really obsessed with the concept of market inefficiencies.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Sure. Right.
BOBBY: Like— like Wall Street Bros have always been obsessed with it, right? And it’s the thing that makes them money, whatever.
DAVID: That’s how they make their money.
BOBBY: But now, we try to, like, market inefficiency, everything in life.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: Like, we need to hack our brains.
DAVID: Right. I need to be—
BOBBY: We need to hack our lives.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: We can’t just do things well now. We have to, like, find a code to live by.
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: And I think Moneyball was the first code that people were like, “Whoa.”
DAVID: But—
BOBBY: This was just a guy sitting in a room who thought of this.
DAVID: And you—
BOBBY: And you can apply it to everything in life. We can find the undervalued Misfit Toys people—
DAVID: The early things—
BOBBY: —and we make them valuable.
DAVID: —that this movie talks about, like— right. Like, “Oh, he’s a submarine pitcher, so people don’t get it. Spike Jones really is amazing.”
BOBBY: Oh, my God, he’s so good. He’s so good.
DAVID: Are—
BOBBY: Can you believe he was just like fucking making Her during this?
DAVID: Yeah, he was. That’s right. Robin Wright also insanely overqualified for this part.
BOBBY: Oh, my God. I know.
ALEX: I know. I know.
DAVID: You can understand it. You’re like, “Oh, that makes sense to me.” Right? That how he did that.
BOBBY: Right, exactly.
DAVID: It makes sense to me. And now, whatever’s happening in baseball often is— it’s much more marginal and I don’t really understand.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: I mean, it— this movie does feel very— it’s partially, I think, why it still resonates, at least, for me today is because I’m like, “Yeah. Oh, this is happening everywhere. Oh, robots are coming for your— computers are going to do your jobs. Like, you’re going to be run through that spreadsheet, and they’re going to decide your salary for you.” Yeah, that’s what happens when I go back to work on Monday. Like—
BOBBY: Yeah,
ALEX: Like it— it captured the sort of zeit— coming, I guess, zeitgeist of like, I don’t know, automation versus ,like, human nature.
DAVID: Yeah. Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And I think Business Bros were probably like, “Yeah, let’s automate the hell out of it. Let’s go.”
BOBBY: I also think that, like, it effectively weaponizes people’s hatred for, like, learned behavior.
You know, like— like passed down wisdom that you’re not—
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: —that—
DAVID: You’re not my dad.
BOBBY: —you’re mad about— yeah, you—
DAVID: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: I— I’m told that I have to believe that I have to hit a 100— I have to get a 120 RBIs. But if I don’t have to listen to that, then great. I’m like some— somewhat of a rebel. A lot of people fashion themselves, like, bad boys when they bought into Moneyball. They were like, “We’re the bad boys of the baseball world.”
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: And I was like, “We maybe give those people a little too much clout. It’s my one— like, my one lasting—
DAVID: I mean, I’m sure that’s true.
BOBBY: —feeling about Moneyball.
DAVID: And but also it’s—
BOBBY: And this movie is kind of like a part of that story, because it makes it seem really fucking cool.
DAVID: But, like, I do think if you’re a baseball fan, you spend your whole life, young Life with baseball hearing from older, wise—
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: —types, be they columnist, or old players, or whatever, being like, “Well, that’s not how it’s done in the Major Leagues,” or whatever. And you— and, you know, it’s such a traditional sport more than any other, and it’s the most resistant to change. And so you sort of start to hate that kind of thinking. So anyone like being—
BOBBY: Right.
DAVID: —being like, “Listen, you old crusty scout, I don’t care if—”
BOBBY: Look at this man’s hair. This is so unbelievable.
DAVID: The— these— this is like—
BOBBY: This hits you right in the gut?
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: It— it destroys me and like—
ALEX: This is a movie about dads.
DAVID: It’s such Sorkin, like shortcut stuff.
BOBBY: I invented this shit, yeah.
DAVID: Like— and he does it in Steve Jobs as well like— but that doesn’t mean it’s not smart of him, where he’s just like, the movie can’t just be him yelling at scouts, right?” You know, like Art Howe.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Like— and you— you have to understand that this is a human being.
BOBBY: Right. It needs— it needs pathos as well as ethos, you know?
DAVID: But also Pitt is a genius, I think, in that they— they’re— they’re lovely together, but there is something, like, tense about their relationship. Oh, she’s so sweet. My friend, Katie Rich, she looks so much like her. So we always used to— down to the big ears. And we used to joke that, like, she is young Katie Rich, if anyone who listens to my podcast. Like, you can see in Pitts’ eyes like, “I’m kind of wasting, like, these years with her.” Right?
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Like, “I’m not seeing her enough. I’m not connected to her enough.”
BOBBY: Right. I need to hack my life.
ALEX: I need to hack my life.
DAVID: There’s a scene earlier—
BOBBY: You should’ve hacked his family life, bro. Where the inefficiency is there.
DAVID: I think— is it— when— I think it’s Hatteberg who asks him, “Do you have kids?”
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: [47:26] “Hey, hey, whoa, whoa [47:26]
DAVID: And he goes— he goes kind of stone face, he’s like, “Yeah.”
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: You know? And, like, you can just tell, like, he doesn’t want to talk about that because, like, he do— one, he doesn’t want to bond with anyone because he’s gonna have to trade them or whatever. But two, like, it’s the thing he’s the most sensitive about.
BOBBY: Picking nits about real life here, I feel like Billy Beane should have been a lefty.
DAVID: Is he a lefty?
BOBBY: He just strikes me as more of a lefty.
DAVID: But is he a lefty?
BOBBY: No, he’s not.
DAVID: Oh, so you just think [47:47]
BOBBY: [47:48]
DAVID: —like reality.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Just that—
DAVID: Real life, I thought you meant like—
BOBBY: No. No, no.
DAVID: —depiction of real life.
BOBBY: I think he should have been left-handed.
DAVID: I do think it’s rude that he couldn’t be great for the Mets. Like, what the fuck?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah. What the fuck? The Mets and the A’s are the most two— the two most cosmically linked franchises in sports, by the way, and Alex—
DAVID: It is sort of true.
BOBBY: —and I have— we’ve— we’ve really, you know—
DAVID: Bonded over that.
BOBBY: Yeah, we’ve— yeah.
DAVID: Well, like—
BOBBY: Like, an archeological deep dive of their link over the last five years on this podcast.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: But it’s interesting, because like, you guys didn’t grow up in the shadow of the Giants quite as much, because the Giants never won. And you guys did win the World Series, I mean, before you were born.
ALEX: Right. Uh-hmm.
DAVID: But it still counts.
ALEX: Yeah. Right, yes. No. And then the Giant— and then the Giants got good kind of when I like went off to college.
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: And they had their whole run and— so—
BOBBY: They’re like— when you were in high school, too, though. They won two World Series when you were in high school.
ALEX: I guess— I guess so. Wow. 2010, ’12 [48:42]
DAVID: 2012, 2014 [48:42]
ALEX: Right, yeah.
DAVID: It’s the easiest [48:43]
BOBBY: The ’14— ’14 was, like, two months after we went to college.
ALEX: Freshman year.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: All right. I’m just remembering a little bit.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Maybe intentionally.
BOBBY: Don’t make us older than we are.
DAVID: A lot—
BOBBY: [48:52] us 34.
DAVID: A lot of— I’m 37, thank you very much. A lot of my family is from San Francisco, and so they were Giants fans. My great aunt was a Giants season ticket holder until she died like— for like 60 years. So I always have kind of a soft spot for the Giants, unfortunately,
ALEX: Yeah, yeah. That’s fair.
BOBBY: I never really—
DAVID: And she was very happy that she got to experience their triumph, like later in her life.
BOBBY: I like— I— I retconned hatred for the Giants after the— after the Madison Bumgarner ten inning, complete game against the Mets in the 2016—
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: —Wild Card game.
DAVID: I got no real beef with the Giants. Do you have beef with the Giants? It’s sort of weird that—
BOBBY: [49:27] look at him, look at him what he does.
DAVID: Like, but it is weird. You’re— you’re— you’re an A’s fan.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Your true rivals are, like, the Angels and the Mariners, I guess.
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah. And so— right.
DAVID: The Rangers. Like— but, like, it was so weird as a kid, like he never played those teams. Now, I guess he played them.
ALEX: Right. I mean— I mean, I— I think similar to, like, the Mets and the Yankees, there was a bit of that, like, little sibling syndrome.
DAVID: Big brother, yeah, yeah, yeah.
ALEX: Exactly. And— and the sort of like level of smarminess, especially after the kind of, you know, winning of the World Series, like, “Oh, you guys have a little baseball team over there, too.”
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: I think a lot of it is probably me projecting my own anxieties and insecurities onto this relationship. I have—
DAVID: No.
ALEX: Mo— most of my friends are Giants fans.
DAVID: Most of your fans are Giants fans. Okay.
ALEX: And— and—
DAVID: Why were you an A’s fan? Were your whole family an A’s fan or did you grow up an A’s fan?
BOBBY: We— we spent—
ALEX: We were all—
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah.
ALEX: And— but like my parents were raised on the— on the— you know, they watched them throughout the, like, ’80s and ’90s and stuff, and—
BOBBY: When they were actually good and fun [50:21] the team.
ALEX: When they were actually good, yes, exactly.
DAVID: Most of my family are Dodgers fans because they were Brooklyn Dodgers fans, and they stuck with the team.
ALEX: Oh.
DAVID: My Uncle Dan is an LA Dodgers fan and like—
BOBBY: It’s so wild that he’s [50:32]
DAVID: —it’s because— because his players moved to LA, so he’s just stuck with them. And he’s stuck with them forever.
BOBBY: You heard about this, when they moved the Dodgers to LA? Did you hear about this?
DAVID: Isn’t that crazy? Now, my mom was only, like, six years old when they moved.
BOBBY: Okay.
DAVID: And so when she moved to New York, she became a Mets fan.
BOBBY: So—
DAVID: Because that’s what the Mets were created as the sort of like, “Okay, we’re here to replace the Giants and the Dodgers, like, you know—”
BOBBY: I actually have a similar story and that my grandfather was a New York Giants fan.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: Did not follow them to San Francisco—
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: —when they moved and—
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: —just waited for the Mets.
DAVID: Yeah, I mean, like that’s the point of the Mets.
BOBBY: Because I was not gonna root for the Yankees. Yeah.
DAVID: No, you’re not gonna root for the Yankees. Exactly. So like my—
BOBBY: You know, it’s a real sliding doors moment for your boy. Imagine if I was a Yankees fan.
DAVID: [51:08] Yankees fan? I mean—
BOBBY: I feel like being a Mets fan—
ALEX: I can is the thing.
BOBBY: You can?
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: I think—
BOBBY: Why?
DAVID: I’ll say this.
BOBBY: I’ll never root for the— the winner, you know? I never root for the people empire.
DAVID: You can be a hot Yankees fan, like it exists. You can be a cool, hot Yankees fan, but—
BOBBY: Like, aesthetically hot or like emotionally hot?
DAVID: Emotionally hot. You can be aesthetically hot and awful as a Yankees fan, I suppose. But I don’t—
ALEX: I don’t know. I just feel they do the persecution complex very well, you know?
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: We have—
BOBBY: But it’s better to be—
DAVID: They kind of have a weird fan base now, because their team kind of sucks.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Like even if they do well, you’re kind of like, “You guys are stinking.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: It’s kind of like the Lakers.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Where you’re just like— you have one title, they’re—
BOBBY: I have to say, they’re very kind of like cocked as an organization right now.
DAVID: Yeah, they’re kind of just lame like. Like, it’s kind of hard to hate— like, I hate the Red Sox, I hate the Braves.
BOBBY: I know, but the Red Sox are way more fun and interesting than the Yankees. I hate the Braves.
DAVID: I hate— I mean, I hate the Braves. I’m a Mets fan from the ’90s. I hate the Braves.
BOBBY: Oh, my God. They’re the worst.
DAVID: I don’t like the Phillies, although, I grew up thinking of them as kind of, you know, not that good, and so I have— I hate the Braves. They’re the ones I hate the most.
BOBBY: Lot of great windbreaker content for Brad in this movie.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Defining [52:24]
ALEX: No, he— he gets to fit on.
BOBBY: I’ve never looked cool in a windbreaker. David, I’d like to pitch you a theory that I pitched to Alex before this.
DAVID: Go ahead.
BOBBY: Hang on.
DAVID: Put a little T-ball.
BOBBY: I think that, in my mind, Sorkin not only like thinks of himself as the Billy Beane of this world, but kind of is. Like, Billy Beane did something very well and he was kind of like the first person to do it in that way.
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: And then it inspired a lot of really bad copies, which sort of ruined the baseball fandom.
DAVID: Right. For like a while.
BOBBY: And the exper— for a long time.
DAVID: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: And it’s like still— we’re still maybe pulling ourselves out of it.
DAVID: We’re still dealing with it. Yeah, exactly. Right.
BOBBY: And Sorkin’s style—
DAVID: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s much copied—
BOBBY: —inspired a lot of really bad copies that made—
DAVID: And—
BOBBY: —a lot of very bad movies and TV shows for, like, 25 years.
DAVID: He also copied himself to like— like diminishing returns for a while in the TV world, like Studio 60 and the Newsroom.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: I also think he really identifies with Beane’s like, “I know how to do this. Like, just let me do it. And, like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —you know, people above him, being like, “No, no, no, no.” Because, like, that was Sorkin’s whole thing when he was hot, was he was like, “I can just write all the episodes of the TV show.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: And they were like, “That’s not— that’s 22 a year, you— you need a staff and stuff.” And he was like, “Ah, fine. They can, like, do research for me or, you know, like—”
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: And so, yeah, I think that’s a fair take. I love how this movie just absolutely bodies Jeremy Giambi.
ALEX: Oh, yeah.
DAVID: They’d be like, “Billy Beane was wrong.”
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: “He suck.”
BOBBY: Is he dead?
ALEX: He is.
BOBBY: He died?
ALEX: Uh-hmm. He did die. Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: That’s tragic.
ALEX: It is tragic.
BOBBY: He wasn’t very good.
ALEX: He was not. He was not very good. But he was— but he was fun, you know? He was—
BOBBY: Sure. He was— he was—
ALEX: He was not great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: He was like— so in— in the Moneyball story is like a casualty of the idea that nobody really understood what Billy Beane was trying to do.
ALEX: Yeah. Right.
BOBBY: Which is that you take the flyer on the players who are not going to cost you as much—
DAVID: Right. A couple of them are not [54:36]
BOBBY: —because you can’t afford—
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: —to take— to— to lose out on a player that you actually spend what little capital you’ve been offered.
DAVID: If I’m Art Howe, I am stressed out that my first baseman cannot catch the ball—
ALEX: Yes.
DAVID: —with his glove.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. I understand the anxiety.
DAVID: I mean, I do understand anxiety, like— like, “Excuse me, I really need that guy.”
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: The first base—
DAVID: “He’s not able to catch the ball.”
ALEX: “You’re telling me he throws upside down?”
BOBBY: First base is the moon to him is a really funny thing.
DAVID: Yeah. It’s a great line.
BOBBY: Sometimes you really just got to hand it to Aaron, you know?
ALEX: Just— but also a testament to the other folks who, like, were involved in this, you know?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: That they were able to take, you know, a Sorkin script that is oftentimes so, like, manic almost in its monologuing and it’s— that they were able to kind of, like, make it—
BOBBY: Slow it down.
ALEX: —a little more measured.
DAVID: Absolutely. It does not have the really jabber-y kind of style of like Social Network.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: Hey, good job. Yay, [55:35]. You sure fielded that ball.
BOBBY: He made a scoop that most Little Leaguers can make.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Unfortunately, I do think that Pratt looks like he’s never played baseball a day in his life.
DAVID: I wonder. I mean, I don’t know much about Pratt’s, like, backstory.
BOBBY: Me, either.
ALEX: I heard they told him he was initially overweight for this.
DAVID: Yeah, ’cause he was in—
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
DAVID: —like Parks and Rec shape.
ALEX: Right. Exactly.
DAVID: He was— he was chubbier, and then— then he needed— he— he got in shape. And he gets Guardians of the Galaxy.
ALEX: Yeah. See like years— now— now we’re getting [56:08]
DAVID: Few years after this—
BOBBY: This is the shit right here, dawg.
ALEX: My heart is like—
BOBBY: Like, what are you talking about? This is great. This is—
ALEX: You’re walking over the— the bridge from the BART train.
BOBBY: Have you ever heard of—
DAVID: [56:14]
BOBBY: —For The Love Of The Game, David?
DAVID: I went to Shea for years and Shea was kind of like the coliseum and that we were kind of like— we know there’s not a lot of character to this place and it’s not— you can’t like get food—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —that’s good, you know? Apart from like a hot dog, like— but like we love it. So, yeah, I remember.
BOBBY: They nailed it with his goatee.
ALEX: Oh, totally.
BOBBY: Exactly what Chad Bradford look like.
DAVID: Maybe more of them should have puka shell necklaces, but maybe it’s a little early for that. I don’t know.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Amazing casting.
DAVID: He kind of looks like Nick Swisher too, though.
BOBBY: He does.
ALEX: He does, yeah.
DAVID: Whoever this guy is.
BOBBY: It’s insane that we don’t get Nick Swisher in this. Like, Nick Swisher can play himself in real time.
DAVID: I think Nick Swisher just can— have— but it—
BOBBY: For this movie.
DAVID: But, like, you could do a whole movie about Nick Swisher.
ALEX: But Swisher wasn’t on this team, was he? On the 2002 team?
DAVID: No, that’s the thing. That’s the thing.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: He’s not on this team.
ALEX: Right. So they like—
BOBBY: Oh, okay. Okay.
DAVID: They want to draft them this year maybe.
BOBBY: That makes sense. That makes sense. That makes sense.
DAVID: But that’s the thing. The book covers more than just 2001.
ALEX: Right. They— I mean, they easily— again, given the liberties they took, they could have put him in here, but—
DAVID: Did— did you like David Justice?
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Kind of a hard guy to love because he would just sort of— when I was— like, he would just kind of show up, but he was fine.
ALEX: Right. Yeah.
DAVID: All right. Who’s your favorite A at the time?
ALEX: Oh, man. I mean, I really— I love Eric Chavez. I like—
DAVID: Sure.
ALEX: I— I’ve always been drawn to Mark Ellis as well. The scrappy, little second baseman that Bobby knows—
BOBBY: That’s your guy. Yeah.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: —that’s my guy, who I think you— we see briefly—
DAVID: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: —in this.
BOBBY: We— we got asked on the podcast, who is your favorite player from your favorite team who never made an all-star team? And that was Alex’s response, Mark Ellis.
DAVID: Mark— Mulder.
ALEX: I— we share the same birthday and so growing— growing up, I like—
DAVID: He was so good.
ALEX: One time, I like— I wrote him a letter and was like, “I’m such a huge fan. Like, we share the same birthday.” Da, da, da. And he sent me back a signed baseball card and I like—
BOBBY: Goated.
ALEX: I was like, “You have a fan for life.” And now—
BOBBY: Goated.
ALEX: —now, he— now he shitposts about like MAGA stuff as— as well.
DAVID: It’s crazy how like half of them just fucking shitposts MAGA stuff.
BOBBY: I know.
DAVID: It’s so bad.
ALEX: It’s bad.
DAVID: What happened to the— to the crack of the bat? Come on, guys, baseball, the beautiful game.
BOBBY: There’s a really— really, really, really wonderful video of Alex and one of his classmates in elementary school interviewing Jason Richardson when he was on the Warriors.
DAVID: Sure.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Sure. Sure.
BOBBY: You have a weird— like a weirdly high amount of interaction with professional sports players from the Oakland area.
ALEX: Right. I was like 12 years old. I was like, “So what’s your favorite song right now?”
DAVID: What was his favorite song?
ALEX: God, now, I’m—
DAVID: What—
ALEX: What’s—
BOBBY: I don’t remember.
ALEX: I don’t even remember [58:53]
BOBBY: You’re looking at me like I’m the archivist or something.
ALEX: Yeah, I know. I know.
DAVID: I’ll find it. He was good.
ALEX: He was good.
BOBBY: He was so good.
DAVID: He— he rocked.
BOBBY: So good.
ALEX: I— this scene, to me, I’m not entirely sure what—
DAVID: The point of it is?
BOBBY: Yeah, me, either.
ALEX: —the point of it is.
DAVID: I think it’s just like as much as— it’s kind of Beane being like— it’s sort of sticking up for Beane being like, “This is all kind of weird. We gotta have— guitars doing the national anthem.”
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: “People aren’t sitting in the upper deck. Like—”
BOBBY: Now, this is where you get the good stuff.
DAVID: “Don’t talk to me about the magic of baseball. Anyway, I’m gonna, yeah, go hit the Stairmaster and watch on a CRT, like while I hate myself.”
BOBBY: This is where you hit every demographic.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: It’s— you— you got the sports fans. You know, you got the cinephiles.
DAVID: Right. You got the stat nerds.
BOBBY: You got the sports movies people, and now you’re getting like all of America. It’s like, “We’re gonna watch Brad Pitt work out.”
DAVID: Yeah. And look at his pager. Look at this 2001 BlackBerry. This— so I think this is Pitts best performance.
BOBBY: Okay.
DAVID: Of his career. And I think it is something— he’s— he’s tapped into it in other roles he’s had, but this is the one where— like, so the whole thing with Brad Pitt was he was so handsome and—
BOBBY: Still is, some might say.
DAVID: Still is. But, like, he emerges on the scene in the early ’90s, such a pretty boy. And they start putting him in stuff, and he became famous. I mean, he— he emerges in Thelma and Louise, in like a small role, which he’s so good in, which is one of those kind of like, “Where did this guy come from? Like, get him in everything.” And then his early ’90s are all these movies—
BOBBY: [1:00:30]
DAVID: Yeah. I don’t know if you guys have seen these movies, like Legends of the Fall and A River Runs Through It, and Interview the vampire where he’s kind of a drip, and he’s kind of this like, pretty boy, and people love to bag on him. And then he swerves, and he does like Seven and 12 monkeys. And then, you know, Fight Club, eventually, people come around like, “Okay, he’s cool.”
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: “Right.” But I feel like he so strongly identifies what Billy Beane is. The— like, “You set me up to fail with this draft pick shit.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: “Like— and I am a movie star,” but I miss, like, movie star who’s almost betrayed by his looks.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: And, like, so in playing Billy Beane, he’s playing this guy who was betrayed by— like, he looks like a baseball player.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Especially younger Billy Beane. You’re like, “Oh, yeah, that guy— that guy didn’t play centerfield for 20 years. Like—”
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: And that’s how he just understands this guy so well, and the weird chip on his shoulder he has about like, “Don’t tell me about his hot girlfriend or whatever.” And that’s what I love what— all so much of what Beane does is [1:01:31] like, “Get me away from [1:01:33]” so it’s just gonna—
ALEX: I know. He’s so resigned to— to this. Yeah.
DAVID: Like, he knows like about the romance of baseball and he’s like, “If I’m too close to it, it’s gonna scramble my antenna. Like, I’m not going to be able to, you know, play Scott Hatteberg or whatever.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I think that— so I— I love that reading on it, that this is the character that he relates to, and that his—
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: —career arc follows the most. And that’s why he fits into the shoe so perfectly, or whatever, however you want to put it. But, like, I think that this—
ALEX: Another great line alert.
DAVID: Incredible line reading, yeah. Every time we talk [1:02:05] yes.
BOBBY: I think that this is his best leading performance, and I struggle to think of who would have played this as well as him.
DAVID: I do, too. Yeah. It’s very hard to imagine.
ALEX: Right. And he wa— and he was there through every iteration—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —of this, right? It was, like, he was always gonna be Beane.
BOBBY: Yeah. Like, we’re not doing this without Brad.
DAVID: Yes.
BOBBY: I— I like him as a character actor, like supporting actor more.
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: And so I find myself like more fond of performances like—
DAVID: Such as?
BOBBY: Even like Fight Club, which I actually don’t really liked that movie very much.
DAVID: Well, he’s— he’s great, but—
BOBBY: It’s like not one of my favorite movies, but he’s tremendous.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: And Inglourious Basterds is probably my favorite performance of his.
DAVID: Great [1:02:42] but obviously there’s [1:02:43]
BOBBY: But obviously he was not asked to do—
ALEX: There he is.
BOBBY: Oh, my God. Look at him. Getting that fit off.
DAVID: He kind of doesn’t post MAGA stuff, but he kind of posts grumpy, like centrist stuff. And then his daughter always yells at him, right?
ALEX: Right. Yeah.
DAVID: His daughter is always like, “Dad, do a Google. Don’t post about gender, or whatever it is you just did.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: You’re such a loser dad.
DAVID: You like— yeah. Sure. You like Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood Brad. But although I think that’s another movie that is— is kind of like— this is about like him being like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —”Just because I look like this doesn’t mean that I am like this.” I mean—
BOBBY: Yes. Doesn’t mean that I’m not— yeah.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: I— I love the sports radio stuff in this movie. It’s like not— the Bay Area—
DAVID: Oh, you’re listening to the— to the, you know—
BOBBY: Yeah, the Bay Area’s not even really— like a particularly— that’s not the reputation that that sports town has.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like the radio is just going to crush you no matter what you do. But I do feel like— especially in like the early 2000s when baseball is kind of like still, you know, the main event for a lot of places and a lot of towns, that like the GM would be listening to— reading the comments, for lack of a better phrase.
ALEX: Yeah. Which is a— a nice way of doing exposition throughout the middle— like you don’t have to explain to any— basically, no baseball concepts explained in this movie and you just get what’s going on—
DAVID: Yes.
ALEX: —because you can just hear the chatter in the background.
DAVID: And, like, I can start yelling at my wife when I watch this with her, being like, “You don’t understand. This is the Ichiro year.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: “Like the Mariners are the story of the season.”
ALEX: Uh-huh. Yeah.
DAVID: Like that’s what everyone’s actually talking about in 2001.
BOBBY: It’s why they were the wildcards to begin with and they won like over a hundred games.
DAVID: Right, exactly. Like that’s— the thing about the AL West is it was like crazy. All those teams were good. And then like— what else is happening this year? Oh, yeah, 9/11 happens this year.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Like it’s a weird baseball year. And then like the fucking Diamondbacks won the World Series, like, at the end—
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: —of all that.
BOBBY: So— but this is the 2002 season, though. So this is the year after.
DAVID: Oh, this is ’02? Right. Then why does nobody mention the fucking 9/11 [1:04:38]
BOBBY: Because this movie opens on them losing in 2001.
DAVID: Right. This is ’02, this is not ’01.
BOBBY: And this was in response—
DAVID: That’s right.
BOBBY: —to falling just short. That’s why.
DAVID: Okay. So wait, so— so the Angels win that year?
BOBBY: In ’02?
ALEX: Yeah. Against the Giants, yeah.
DAVID: The secret rally amongst the Angels.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: It’s Angels-Giants is the—
BOBBY: Put some respect on Bartolo Colon’s name.
DAVID: Sure. Yeah, Colon. Who’s on that team?
BOBBY: Put some respect on fucking Troy Glaus’ name.
ALEX: Right. Yeah.
DAVID: Uh-huh.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Who else?
ALEX: Troy— Tim Salmon.
DAVID: Tim Salmon, he was good.
BOBBY: That’s right. Tim Salmon [1:05:04]
DAVID: [1:05:05]
ALEX: David Eckstein.
BOBBY: Ugh.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: God
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: Don’t say that name around two Mets fans.
DAVID: That’s like the— yeah, seriously. That’s like the— the Dusty Baker Giants—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: —who are like—
ALEX: A little— little guy named Barry Bonds, I think, was on that team.
BOBBY: Yeah, that’s right.
DAVID: Right. It’s like the one year Barry Bonds did—
BOBBY: [1:05:20] the big moment, though. Could have hit another bomb. Should have done more steroids before the playoffs.”
DAVID: The Mets are—
ALEX: You could have done that impression for this movie.
DAVID: —are god-awful.
BOBBY: I could have done the accent.
DAVID: The Mets are god-awful, right?
BOBBY: It was like two years after the Subway Series team, which was like ancient.
DAVID: They’re— they’re— right.
BOBBY: You know, all those guys are like in the ground.
DAVID: They’re terrible.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: It’s like Rey Ordonez. It’s like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Is he still around? Like, I’m trying to remember the Mets of this year.
BOBBY: I don’t know. I was six.
DAVID: All right. Okay. You know what? You know what? Just shut the fuck up.
BOBBY: So— okay, David, I’m—
DAVID: I’m trying to remember, like, what’s happening in baseball around this time is what I mean.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don’t know. I— I guess like Randy Johnson is still the best pitcher [1:05:59]
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: Randy and Pedro—
ALEX: Pedro is—
BOBBY: —you know, was like really on the scene and peaking. And the Red Sox are starting to, like, arm up for their run to break the curse. 2003, the Red Sox were great.
DAVID: Yes, they were.
BOBBY: In ’04, they finally actually did it.
DAVID: I’m aware. Yes, I— I remember that one.
BOBBY: We’re kind of at, like, the intermediary period of this movie.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: They’re on their own plane.
DAVID: We’re in the middle.
BOBBY: You know, they’re talking to David Justice, trying— we’re— we’re seeing now the relationship between the nerds and the athletes really play out.
DAVID: Well, also, it is David Justice being like, “By the way, you guys might be nerds who are saving money, but like, I would like to be able to, like, drink soda in my [1:06:36] “
ALEX: Yeah, I just— I would like a Gatorade, please. Like—
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: I— so I— I’m gonna use this moment to ask you, David.
DAVID: Yes.
BOBBY: I asked you what— if you could do any movie for a Tipping Pitches Watchalong, any baseball movie, what movie would you choose? And you chose Moneyball, why?
DAVID: Well, I love this movie more than anything and I also [1:06:52] I mean, I was obsessed with [1:06:53]
BOBBY: Who isn’t?
DAVID: Who isn’t?
BOBBY: Remember when he said he would never play for the Yankees?
DAVID: Yeah. Well, then he did.
ALEX: And then he did.
DAVID: And he shaved his beard. But honestly, he was kind of sweet on the Yankees, because you were like, you know, “There he is.”
BOBBY: Remember when he said he didn’t know who Tom Brady was?
DAVID: I also—
ALEX: I—
DAVID: Well, there’s a whole thing where—
ALEX: [1:07:10] just bits. That’s all he does.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: People were like, “What’s the name of your dog?” And he’s like, “I can’t tell you. I need to ask my dog’s permission before I tell you.”
BOBBY: That’s good work right there.
DAVID: Yeah, seriously.
BOBBY: Billy Beane, come on [1:07:24]
ALEX: [1:07:23]
BOBBY: Really good.
DAVID: My favorite—
BOBBY: Although, those are the easier style of pull-ups where your hands are facing inwards rather than like [1:07:29]
DAVID: This— this is my favorite baseball movie.
BOBBY: Okay.
DAVID: That’s why I picked it. My other favorite baseball movie is The Natural—
BOBBY: Good one.
DAVID: —which I think is the opposite of this movie. Which is about how baseball is like a magic gladiatorial sport where like—
BOBBY: There’s nothing to be known about it at all.
DAVID: Exactly. Like, it’s— it’s all vibes and, like, legend.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: And, like, everyone should just be called like the chipper. You know, like everyone should just have like a weird nickname and you’re riding like a rail car.
BOBBY: Like a [1:07:56]
DAVID: Like, I love how that movie leans all the way into the sort of mythic fairytale—
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
DAVID: —part of baseball. And I think that movie rules. What are other good baseball movies? I mean, Field of Dreams is a good movie, but like—
ALEX: That is— that is a good one.
DAVID: That’s a good movie about—
BOBBY: Some people would think that was a hot take that you said that.
DAVID: I know that, and I think that’s absurd. But like that movie is— that movie is wonderful. But that movie is about like baseball is like a family tradition that you pass down. It’s not like about like the sport of baseball.
ALEX: Really incredible—
BOBBY: I love the real baseball footage that they used in this [1:08:26]
ALEX: I do, too. Also—
DAVID: Well, because the glean [1:08:27] on it, like the weird compression.
ALEX: It’s so good. Incredible that they got Rickey Henderson into an A’s movie and he’s wearing a Red Sox jersey.
BOBBY: That’s elite.
ALEX: That’s [1:08:36]
DAVID: He’s the best [1:08:36] of all time.
ALEX: Without a doubt.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: It’s not even close.
DAVID: That’s not even close.
ALEX: Yeah, it’s not even close.
DAVID: That’s the Bill James quote I think about all the time.
BOBBY: Which one?
DAVID: If you split them in two, it would be two Hall of Famers. It’s like the coolest—
ALEX: That is— yeah.
DAVID: It’s the coolest way for a stats guy to talk about his nerdy thing. You know what I mean?
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Look at your man. Look at your man. Look at the fit.
DAVID: He’s got the same damn sweater.
ALEX: Yeah, I know.
BOBBY: Look at his visor.
DAVID: Do you guys have visors?
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: I’ve never been a visor guy.
BOBBY: I haven’t.
DAVID: Should we rock a visor this summer? Should we, like, try and bring visors back?
ALEX: Should we bring them back?
BOBBY: Okay, big dawg, I see you’re trying to start— trying to start fashion trends on the Tipping Pitches Patreon feed.
ALEX: This is— we— this is the— the second— the second episode we’ve recorded today and the second one that has featured menswear discussion.
BOBBY: Hat— hat chat, too.
ALEX: Ha— hat chat, specifically.
BOBBY: Oh, wow, that’s true. Yeah, but you don’t know since— that we already recorded the whole pod today.
DAVID: What was it about?
BOBBY: Just like our normal— our normal weekly—
DAVID: [1:09:29] your normal pod?
BOBBY: —episode, yeah, ’cause we usually record on Sundays.
DAVID: You know what’s a pain in the ass?
BOBBY: Patreon?
DAVID: Recording a podcast is a fucking grind. You guys don’t go too long, though, at least.
BOBBY: Yeah, no.
DAVID: You guys— you guys— you don’t— you don’t go Blank Check link. [1:09:43]
BOBBY: I mean, you guys are just truly doing a different—
ALEX: Pow— power house is sick.
BOBBY: It’s all great.
DAVID: [1:09:48] she’s so sweet. She was on this show, Brothers And Sisters at the same time. It’s like a family, soap-y drama that I, like [1:09:58] to watch.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: This is very like— to me, like, this is what dads and daughters do, right? They like eat— they eat ice cream sundaes.
BOBBY: eat ice cream.
DAVID: Like [1:10:10]
BOBBY: Like, put some more fucking whipped cream on top.
DAVID: And then, like, the dad maybe tries to venture, “So— so do you wanna— everything’s okay?”
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: You know, like— because he doesn’t really know how to talk about like her social life or whatever.
ALEX: Has— so— so you have— you were mentioning you have a—
DAVID: I have a daughter.
ALEX: You have a— you have a daughter and ha— has—
BOBBY: As a father of a daughter—
ALEX: As a father of a daughter—
DAVID: She’s— she’s not even three years old, so we don’t have, like, you know, involved conversations, but—
ALEX: But has, like, your experience watching a movie like this—
DAVID: Oh, no.
ALEX: —that explores fatherhood, like— like—
DAVID: Yes, it completely transformed my experience—
BOBBY: Have you watched this movie since you had a daughter?
DAVID: Yes. And I like sobbed in front of my wife, talk— just talking about— like, this aspect of the film. But that— like every movie with a parent relationship in it, you react to it differently. And then any movie where a kid is in peril, you react to it.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: And you’re like, “What was the matter with me? Like, I was like— didn’t give a shit about this before I had a kid?” Like— but they’re just something is like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Something like a panic button gets pushed in your brain. Like, the— what— fucking Aquaman 2, there’s a baby in peril. I’m a soft [1:11:14] person.
BOBBY: Five stars.
DAVID: Good movie.
BOBBY: Five stars.
DAVID: You know, I’m watching and I’m like—
BOBBY: I didn’t— I— I have to admit something. I did not listen to Wankelman, [1:11:20] because I did not watch either of those movies exactly.
DAVID: Well, you don’t— you don’t have to watch those movies or listen to that episode, but I did those things. He’s so grumpy, Billy.
ALEX: He’s so grumpy.
BOBBY: This is kind of Alex’s. He flips the desk all the time whenever we record.
DAVID: No, like, this helps [1:11:37]
ALEX: This is what Bobby is like when the recording setup doesn’t work, the chairs start going flying and—
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: I had a question— I had that question. Who do you relate to the most in this movie? Like, who do you think—
DAVID: Oh, that’s a good question.
BOBBY: —you are most like? And also like, who do you think you would want to play in this movie? Two separate questions, but related.
DAVID: I’m thinking, I’m thinking. Who do I relate to the most? I might relate the most to Art Howe.
BOBBY: Yeah, like I was thinking the same thing.
DAVID: Who is currently on screen. But, like, I do think my dynamic in the podcast I do with Griffin Newman, my co-host, I’m more of the Art Howe like, “Oh, no. We don’t want to— we don’t want to shake anything up. Like, let’s just do what we do. What we do is fine.” Like, we don’t need to be doing something complicated.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: So I sympathize with Art Howe a lot. Who would I play? I’d play the Jonah Hill part.
BOBBY: Probably.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: That’d be fun.
DAVID: Right? I’m more enthusiastic than Peter Brand, though. Peter Brand is very, like, usually low-key.
BOBBY: Yeah, but I mean, Jonah is usually more enthusiastic too, in the roles that he plays. Or usually chattier.
DAVID: He is. That’s what he’s doing. He’s kind of tamping down his natural thing.
BOBBY: Who would you play, Alex? Well, I guess who do you relate to first?
ALEX: Who do I relate to? I—
BOBBY: I relate to Mark Mulder. Pretty good at my job, but nobody wants to talk about it.
DAVID: He’s not in the movie.
ALEX: Right. I don’t know. I kind of relate to, like, David Justice.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: Like—
DAVID: David Justice is like I’m trying to do my job.
ALEX: Like, how much— can you— can you squeeze a little more out of me?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like, I’m putting it all out there, but my body hurts.
DAVID: But, like, they’re— and everyone’s kind of rude to him with, like, “David, you’re— you’re almost dead.”
ALEX: Right. Yeah.
DAVID: He’s like—
BOBBY: He’s like 36—
DAVID: [1:13:21]
ALEX: Billy Beane, like, nagged him repeatedly.
DAVID: He’s like jacking [1:13:23] right. And like, “David, we’re getting to every, like, bit of blood out of the stone here, but we all know you’re almost, you know, done.” Oh, they’re—
ALEX: There it is.
DAVID: Jeremy. Right. It’s like they’ve lost, right?
BOBBY: Maybe I’ll— maybe I’ll play Jeremy Giambi.
DAVID: Yeah, you could Jeremy— no, but you could nail that.
BOBBY: I don’t relate to him the most, but I could play him. I could play him.
DAVID: He’s grumpy because they lost, right?
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: And it’s like they’re celebrating and he’s like, “Why are you celebrating?”
BOBBY: He’s grumpy and they’re in last still I—
DAVID: They stink.
BOBBY: —I think.
DAVID: This is also great. This is the year Tejada wins MVP.
ALEX: MVP and not mentioned.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Not mentioned, whatsoever.
DAVID: Not mentioned? Maybe mentioned one time, I think. I don’t know. It is funny. Like, do
you think there was a conversation?
ALEX: I— well, like—
DAVID: Like, you know, like one baseball expert who was like, “Hey, by the way, like, do you know, like, you have three aces on this team?” Like—
ALEX: You should probably like [1:14:09]
BOBBY: Miguel Tejada is like it’s seven more players this year.
ALEX: Yeah. And I think that’s— I think that’s supposed to be Mark Mulder right there. I think Tejada is supposed to be— so like they clearly recognized we should have stand-ins—
DAVID: This should be there.
ALEX: —at the very least—
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: —should be around.
BOBBY: I do think he has one brief conversation with Tejada, like in the weight room or something.
DAVID: Right. You guys lost to Minnesota in the Divisional Series?
BOBBY: Not only that, it was the last playoff game that Minnesota won until this year.
DAVID: Until this year— like who the fuck was on Minnesota then? Like what was that team?
ALEX: I— I generally don’t know.
DAVID: Like, this is— I’m real remembering the 2002 was kind of a weird year.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Because 2001 was so dramatic with the 9/11 and then all that, you know? Like—
BOBBY: Did Miguel Tejada won the MVP this year?
DAVID: He won MVP in 2002.
ALEX: Yeah, bro.
DAVID: And, like, you’re right.
BOBBY: What the fuck?
DAVID: This year was like— San Francisco was a wild card and Anaheim was a wild card. They both kind of like surprisingly snuck through. And then they played like a seven-game thriller World Series that no—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —one remembers because no one really cared.
ALEX: Right, exactly.
DAVID: Like— like if you look at the World Series on paper, you’re like, “Damn, this is crazy.”
ALEX: Yeah. Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Like, lead changes and like, you know, it was neck and neck the whole time. And then you’re like, “Well, who was on the teams, though?”
ALEX: Right. Yeah.
DAVID: And, like, I don’t even— yeah.
BOBBY: I think I—
DAVID: It’s a weird year.
BOBBY: I relate to Art Howe also. You know, like—
DAVID: Yeah. Definitely.
BOBBY: —I’m pretty good at my job. I don’t like someone telling me that I need to do things differently. I’m going to do things the way that I do them.
DAVID: But he wasn’t— I don’t think he was good at his job. Is that rude?
BOBBY: If there’s one thing that listeners should take from this podcast—
DAVID: I think I subscribed to the Moneyball theory of like, “No, he wasn’t good at his job.
BOBBY: Why didn’t Billy Beane just—
DAVID: Fire him?
BOBBY: —fire him?
DAVID: I mean, my guess is money, right? Because I think—
BOBBY: And nowadays, you would fire him. Nowadays, like a GM would be like, “I need a manager who is going to do what I want him to do.”
ALEX: Right. I think it’s a— I mean, he doesn’t have buy-in from like anyone at this point, right? It’s like you need a respectable face. Like, who— who are you going to bring in to run your— run your team?
DAVID: Right. You can’t bring in some— some puppet, because, right, they’ll— the people will see through. Also, it’s like Art Howe was like, “I win games.”
ALEX: Right. It’s like— he’s like, “I’ve been around, I know what I’m doing.”
DAVID: But, like, I’m pretty sure he left the A’s because once his contract was up, and he was like, “Hello? Like, I’m successful.”
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah.
DAVID: Beane was like, “I’m never paying you.”
BOBBY: Kick rocks.
DAVID: And so the Mets were like, “Hey, do you want lots of money to come drive our team further into the ground?” Fucking Art Howe. 2002 Minnesota Twins.
BOBBY: I love all the whiteboards in this movie.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: It’s the really underrated part of working for a sports team or whatever, is that there’s just whiteboards with names on them everywhere. Like, there was just a whiteboard in the background, Julio Franco and Barry Bonds’ name on it. Why is that so?
ALEX: we should have one of those in— in our studio.
DAVID: Maybe it’s like—
BOBBY: Well, I— I was gonna say like in the scouting scene earlier when he throws the magnet and it lands on the whiteboard. I was like, “That’s fucking baller move.”[1:17:00]”
DAVID: [1:17:00] toss, the over— overhand toss.
BOBBY: What are we talking about this week?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And I throw a magnet and it hits the whiteboard—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —and it’s like fucking—
ALEX: Leveraged buyout.
DAVID: Barry Bonds.
BOBBY: Regional Sports Networks.
DAVID: Oh, I love those things. So do we think this is an accurate depiction of trading?
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: I think it is.
BOBBY: This I actually think—
DAVID: Because this is— this is how I think this goes.
BOBBY: Yes. You call, you call, you call, you call. You get a promise, you get a promise. You call another— a GM. You call, like, the third GM. Yeah.
DAVID: Like it— it feels crazy to me that there has to be this kind of, like, verbal agreement thing in sports, where it’s like once we’ve agreed, we’ve agreed.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: —even though, yeah, we’ve now have to file paperwork and call people and like—
BOBBY: No, he’s calling the god, bro. He’s calling Dave Dombrowski.
ALEX: Dave, Big Dom.
DAVID: Hell yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah, brother.
DAVID: So this is— you know, the— the twins were just like pretty good. It’s the first one Gardenhire season. It’s the last David Ortiz season—
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: Oh, before he goes to the Sox.
DAVID: Before he goes to the Sox.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: It’s Torii Hunter, Doug Mientkiewicz who is like one of those guys—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —that I, a little nerd, was like, “You know, people underrate this guy, but he gets on base.” Like, I was like one of those guys.
BOBBY: I can’t believe they traded Pena. They make such a big deal out of this in the book.
DAVID: It’s [1:18:18]
BOBBY: They’re like—
DAVID: Yes.
BOBBY: —he might have been assassinated in the streets for trading Pena.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: He won the rookie of the year the year before.
DAVID: Yes. It was crazy, I think. It’s a homegrown player.
BOBBY: Kind of— kind of a baller move. This is— it’s like whenever I wanna do my—
DAVID: It’s a pretty— he’s trading Pena to play an incompetent first baseman.
BOBBY: Whenever I wanted to do my, like, anti-Moneyball, anti-Billy Beane, you ruined the sport that I love bullshit and I see him do stuff like this, where it’s like, at least this man had the courage of his fucking convictions. Nowadays, it’s like Mike Elias just does this stuff because he wants to save some owner a couple more dollars.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: He doesn’t actually believe that it’s the best way to build a baseball team—
ALEX: Right. Exactly.
BOBBY: —otherwise, he would have fucking won a World Series for—
DAVID: You guys know more about, right, like baseball currently than I do. Now, pay attention, you guys are in, so like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —how ruined is baseball right now? Because my perception was that eventually—
BOBBY: We’re like—
DAVID: —everyone started doing this shit, and it evened out a little bit, and it got a little less annoying. But is that not the case?
BOBBY: We’re a little back.
DAVID: We’re a little back?
BOBBY: We’re a little back. There’s enough— there’s seemingly enough owners at the moment who understand that the market inefficiency, in an ironic way, is like spending a lot of money on the best players. Which like back in the day, there was not like the aggressive free agency pursuit of certain type of superstars. There was like the A-Rods, but that was pretty much it, you know?
DAVID: Which is— oh, yeah, it was really rare to have something like that, right.
BOBBY: And like you were a fucking asshole if you were trying to go do what like Scott Boras does for all of his clients now, which is like go get the biggest and longest contract from whatever team is willing to give it to you.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: And now there’s like five or six owners that are willing to do that and then the rest of the league is sort of operating on the assumptions that are foundational—
DAVID: Through this.
BOBBY: —supported by this movie.
DAVID: Right. Yes.
BOBBY: But—
DAVID: But aren’t there—
BOBBY: —we all like as a fan— like we— we’re in a healthier place, because we recognize this bullshit when it’s the only stuff that— that is being done by a franchise.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: I mean, obviously— I was about to say we— we do— I feel like we have less teams now that are like, “We fundamentally exist is like a money laundering operation. We have no interest in being good.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: But then the A’s are bad.
ALEX: There a few— there are few of those in the A’s, I would— I would count among them. Yeah. But it’s like—
DAVID: I mean, the A’s are there for a specific reason of like, “We actually have to prove that we cannot function.”
ALEX: Right. Right. Yeah.
DAVID: Right? Like, this is like we’re making a point. Like, you— you awful Oaklanders—
ALEX: That literally is— is what they’re doing. Yeah.
DAVID: —won’t let us be good. Right. Like who’s actually still being bad for like— like, ju— and just collecting, like, the talent, the— the revenue [1:20:47]
BOBBY: Pirates.
ALEX: I mean, the Pirates and the Rays.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I think people [1:20:49]
BOBBY: But no, no, no [1:20:49]
DAVID: But the Rays are good.
BOBBY: Not being bad.
ALEX: Oh, oh, yes. Okay. That’s right.
BOBBY: The Rays are truly like if you took the 2002 A’s and put them in the 2020.
DAVID: Yeah. I understand that.
BOBBY: And they are the exact same thing.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: And they’ve been that for 15 years.
BOBBY: 15 years.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: But they also have like this weirdly, like, cultish philosophy about what the Rays believe in and how they’re like on the cutting edge of everything. They are like Moneyball bastardized in my mind.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: I think they should go, like, back to being the Devil Rays.
BOBBY: I agree with that.
ALEX: I agree.
DAVID: Thank you.
BOBBY: I completely agree that was such woke nonsense that they had to take— take— take the devil out of their name.
DAVID: Yes.
ALEX: I know. Yeah, that’s big like early 2000’s energy, you know?
BOBBY: Yeah, Satanic Panic nonsense.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Like get the fuck out of here. Come on.
DAVID: I actually don’t— I mean, I think they took it out of their name because it was undeniably the dorkiest name in baseball.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: And their— their goddamn logo was of a manta ray. And they had lost for 10 years.
BOBBY: Another logo is of a sun ray.
ALEX: It’s like a sun burst, yeah.
BOBBY: [1:21:41]
DAVID: But they should— right. They should have pivoted all the way off. Like, they did the kind of half-assed like, “But we’ll still be the Rays.” And it’s like, “What?”
BOBBY: It’s like the most—
ALEX: Yeah, so why are you—
BOBBY: —fucking like Microsoft Word pre-created clipart nonsense bullshit I have ever seen.
DAVID: Like the other Tampa Bay teams are the Lightning. That’s a great name.
BOBBY: That’s sick. So sick.
DAVID: And the Buccaneers was—
BOBBY: It’s fine.
DAVID: It’s all right.
ALEX: I think they should move to St. Petersburg and bring back the Devil Rays, so you’re the St. Petersburg—
DAVID: St. PTRs.
ALEX: Right. Saint— St. PTRs.
DAVID: No, they should be moved to Montreal, that’s— that should just happen. Again, If I’m— I just pick you up, you’re in Montreal. You’re the Montreal Expos. The Tampa Bay Devil Rays, we seal them in concrete.
BOBBY: This is a real—
DAVID: This is a great scene.
BOBBY: —sigma move.
ALEX: Is this Thomas Jefferson hanging on the wall right there?
DAVID: He sure does have a Thomas Johnson—
BOBBY: Wow, I never saw that.
DAVID: I don’t know.
BOBBY: This is why you do events like this.
ALEX: This is why do this, yeah.
BOBBY: You know, you notice this shit.
DAVID: You are outside your mind is a real Aaron Sorkin line.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: What’s like— what’s a cooler way to say you’re out of your mind? “Hey, Jeremy, grab a seat. Fuck you. Now, leave.” It’s tough.
BOBBY: Elite arm crossing.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Which is such a manager move.
DAVID: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It must be so annoying, especially baseball, to be a manager.
BOBBY: He cried.
DAVID: And know they can always cut to me.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Like in the dugout.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: So I always have to kind of have [1:23:15]
BOBBY: Exactly. Exactly.
ALEX: Always have to be on.
BOBBY: Exactly. You know who has mastered that? Buck Showalter.
DAVID: Of course.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Well, that guy is a pro at all of the old baseball’s [1:23:22]
BOBBY: I have a question, was he managing someone right now? Did he get a new job?
DAVID: I don’t think so. Buck Showalter?
ALEX: I don’t— I don’t think so.
DAVID: He’s old as dust. I mean, God bless him, but he was managing—
BOBBY: Managing the Mets last year.
DAVID: I’m aware of that, but he was managing the Yankees when I was a little child. When I was in elementary school. Like when we hired him, I was like— you guys are— are cute but like this guy is—- I mean, I like— I like Buck though, so, you know, whatever.
ALEX: [1:23:51]
DAVID: That is secret alpha shit for him. That’s Peter Brand being the alpha.
ALEX: Yeah. Uh-huh.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[laughter]
BOBBY: That’s [1:24:12]
ALEX: He does a great job of looking absolutely petrified anytime his name is called.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
ALEX: Well put.
BOBBY: That was like some Inglourious Basterds Brad right there.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Uh-hmm. So rousing stuff.
BOBBY: Descend— direct descendant of the mountain man, Jim Bridger.
DAVID: If the A’s moved to Las Vegas, which I assume is going to happen.
ALEX: Is likely.
DAVID: Will they still green and yellow?
BOBBY: You said 50/50 on our most recent podcast.
ALEX: Who knows? It’s a coin flip.
DAVID: Will they—
BOBBY: But will they still be green and yellow?
DAVID: Yeah, will they keep— because they have one of the best color schemes in baseball.
ALEX: I know. They have a beautiful color scheme. Well, and that’s been the whole thing with— the city— the city of Oakland is trying to, like, negotiate now, you can’t keep the name.
DAVID: Like, will— like do Seattle SuperSonics thing of like, “We hold on to all of that.”
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: Yeah. Intellectual property.
ALEX: Which like I don’t— I don’t know why they didn’t try and negotiate that— like they’re negotiating that as their way— on their way out the door.
DAVID: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: Like he should have gotten that down on paper—
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: —years ago, but I— they want to keep it. I don’t— I just don’t know why they would. Like I— why don’t you start fresh?
BOBBY: That— that was Tejada, by the way. He was sitting there next to the guy who was talking to Billy Beane.
DAVID: There you go.
BOBBY: [1:25:30]
DAVID: The MVP of holding an MVP trophy.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: You think they might not move just because this Vegas thing seems like it’s built on quick sand?
ALEX: I— yes.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Exactly.
DAVID: That’s weird.
ALEX: Just because it’s all very weird. It’s just been a year’s long process and we have zero details on this.
DAVID: Right. But they’re like— it’s gonna be a 30,000 seat arena and you’re like, “Well, that’s pretty small.”
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: Where’s it going? They’re like, “Here.”
ALEX: It is gonna be the smallest baseball stadium and the smallest market, and— and the—
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: Also there’s questions about if the A’s owner John Fisher has any money?
DAVID: Well, that seems like an issue. Sure, right.
BOBBY: He’s gonna have to sell some Gap stock.
DAVID: I just like—
ALEX: He is.
BOBBY: Are you aware of John Fisher being the descendant of the people who founded Gap Incorporated?
DAVID: No, I’m not.
BOBBY: The clothing company.
DAVID: That’s where he gets his money from?
ALEX: That’s where he gets his money, yeah.
DAVID: Okay. So sell some Gap stock, John. But, like, I have no beef with—
BOBBY: This is— this is— this is—
DAVID: This is—
BOBBY: —badass.
ALEX: Such a [1:26:20]
DAVID: Rude.
BOBBY: This is not how I would motivate people, but—
DAVID: No.
BOBBY: —it’s effective.
DAVID: This guy is great.
ALEX: Yeah,
DAVID: I forget who the actor is. He’s 37, he’s pretty old.
BOBBY: I said 36.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know?
ALEX: He is— so I think he was— he—
DAVID: In my—
ALEX: —actually did play like Minor League Baseball, which is why he actually has a decent swing.
DAVID: Right. He’s got a great swing.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah. That’s one of the best things—
DAVID: And he looks like—
BOBBY: —in any baseball movie ever.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, that’s not messing [1:26:48] the low bar, I know.
DAVID: Vegas— baseball in Vegas makes no sense. Like, that is not a city that makes sense for baseball.
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: No.
DAVID: Like if they want—
BOBBY: This is what we’ve been saying.
DAVID: —to move the A’s, if they want to be assholes about it, move them somewhere else. Sorry, I know this is— you guys talk—
BOBBY: Yeah. Yeah.
ALEX: No [1:27:06]
DAVID: We’re just— we’re watching the Oakland A’s on my television right now.
ALEX: I like how it just resonates.
DAVID: He’s like, “Okay.” He—
BOBBY: That’s coachability right there, dawg.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: He gets it.
BOBBY: Nothing like a left-handed baseball swing. Like, nothing looks better. You know? He should— Billy Beane should’ve been a lefty.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: He might have made it.
DAVID: Yeah, that’s what he need to do. Switch his stance in the middle of his professional career.
[laughter]
DAVID: This is a good scene.
BOBBY: Every scene is good.
DAVID: And David justice played first base, did he not?
BOBBY: Hmm.
DAVID: Or was he an outfielder?
BOBBY: No, he was an outfielder.
ALEX: Largely out.
DAVID: He never played first base?
ALEX: Great delivery.
DAVID: Look at how David— how David Justice about to have the moment of does David Justice post MAGA shit all the time? Which is what happen—
ALEX: Yeah, I know.
DAVID: —anytime I Google any baseball form of baseball player.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Yeah, he was an outfielder. I made that up.
BOBBY: The Gap.
ALEX: There you go.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: What did they know?
ALEX: John Fisher needle drop.
DAVID: Does the Gap have greeters?
BOBBY: No.
DAVID: I don’t think of that as the thing that Gap does.
BOBBY: No. Costco has greeters.
DAVID: Hey, welcome to the Gap.
BOBBY: Walmart has greeters.
ALEX: Walmart.
DAVID: Yeah. David Justice, I think of him as a Cleveland Indian. I know he was on the Braves longer.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: But I— I think I was—
BOBBY: Wasn’t he on the Braves World Series teams?
DAVID: He was on the Braves World Series team, ’95.
BOBBY: Yeah. Yeah.
DAVID: Just one. They only won one time, my friend.
BOBBY: I meant like the ones that went to the World Series.
DAVID: Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, no, but he— was he on the one against the Yankees?
BOBBY: ’92?
DAVID: I guess he might have been, yeah.
BOBBY: ’96, rather.
DAVID: Yeah. Oh, he was injured.
BOBBY: He—
DAVID: Like he was on the team—
BOBBY: Oh.
DAVID: —but he didn’t make it to the World Series.
BOBBY: You know who else was on those teams? Fucking Deion Sanders. That’s who.
DAVID: Yeah. Well, I mean—
ALEX: How the fuck did he do that, then?
DAVID: Well, that— he rocked.
BOBBY: How the fuck did he do—
DAVID: We— we agree with that, right?
ALEX: Yeah. Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Yeah, of course.
DAVID: I mean, I know he’s— he’s had a weird year, but like— like, generally, we could support Deion Sanders, right?
ALEX: Yeah. I’ll just— hey, I’ll go pull out my— my Yankees baseball card of— of his that I have.
DAVID: Maybe you should. How many baseball cards you got?
ALEX: Like three. That one’s framed, which maybe gives you a sense—
DAVID: Hell yeah.
ALEX: —of how many baseball cards I actually have.
DAVID: Hell yeah. I don’t know how he did that, because he would play— he would just switch.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like after the football season was over.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: And he would just be, “All right. Time to play baseball.”
DAVID: I mean, God bless him.
BOBBY: That’s so fucking crazy.
DAVID: But the— it’s just the weirdest thing is that he was one of the most electrifying, insane football players you’ve ever seen and then he was like an okay baseball player. Like— like— he was like pretty good. It’s so funny when it’s that.
BOBBY: Just committed, though. Like he was committed.
DAVID: Where— where you’re just like, “Dude, you totally— you are like the best at your job at football. Like, you don’t need to also be doing this. “
BOBBY: I love the thing he does [1:30:05]
ALEX: The dramatic walks. Hell yeah.
BOBBY: He’s like watching it into the glove.
DAVID: David Justice got on base, man.
ALEX: He did. He goes [1:30:12]
BOBBY: Those pitches look like they’re going at 38 miles per hour.
DAVID: They probably are.
BOBBY: I love how they give the credits to Art Howe.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Look at the— The Clash poster in the background. I like it. I like it.
ALEX: I know.
DAVID: He has cool posters all over, that you clock as you watch [1:30:27]
ALEX: I know. I’m— I’m picking up on more of them than I have before.
DAVID: And like just this sort of general vibe—
BOBBY: Great shirt.
ALEX: —of like, “Yeah, he kind of has a broad, you know, understanding of things.”
BOBBY: Do we think that Billy Beane, like, styled himself like a Goodfella or did that— was that just like Hollywoodization?
ALEX: I think he low-key did.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: Like I think he— he got like a nice like, you know—
BOBBY: Chain and—
ALEX: —chain and— and polo off.
DAVID: I mean, it truly feels like they play in a nuclear bomb shelter.
ALEX: [1:31:00]
DAVID: Like, that’s where they work.
BOBBY: You can’t let go of this.
DAVID: Like, there are no windows ever in this, which is perfect.
BOBBY: They’re in— there’s no windows in any clubhouse. They’re in a fucking basement.
DAVID: But it’s so crucial when he goes to the Red Sox at the end of this movie—
BOBBY: I know, and— yeah [1:31:13]
ALEX: [1:31:15]
DAVID: —and you’re sitting in Fenway and you’re like, “This is baseball. This is the place to be.”
BOBBY: There’s a window.
DAVID: Yeah, there’s a little window.
BOBBY: There’s Mr. Window.
DAVID: Oh, yeah. So good.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: What a view.
BOBBY: There’s a Mark Ellis sighting.
DAVID: You know, when you— in Toronto, there’s a hotel that looks out onto the SkyDome, whatever they call the SkyDome,
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Right. Yeah.
DAVID: Rogers Centre.
BOBBY: The Rogers Centre.
ALEX: Rogers Centre.
DAVID: And every year, I go to TIFF, I want to rent that hotel and, like— because you can, like, have windows—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —that look out onto the field.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: I’ve never done that.
BOBBY: I think it’s like [1:31:49]
ALEX: How much do you think those go for?
BOBBY: It’s quite—
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: Do you think The Atlantic will pay for it?
DAVID: No. They definitely would not. I can— I can testify on your Patreon that they would never forgive me for that.
ALEX: If— if— if [1:31:59]
DAVID: They would pay for me for like an Airbnb where like the bed is in the shower. That— that’s like their budget for me, going to TIFF.
BOBBY: That’s magazine journalism, baby.
DAVID: Yeah, baby.
BOBBY: Oh, talking about our jobs.
ALEX: Hardcore.
DAVID: Yeah, this is where Jonah Hill, Peter Brand, whatev— you know, he’s got a little bit of swag. Like he’s been here for almost a season now.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
ALEX: UH-hmm.
DAVID: He’s like kind of okay being a little more—
ALEX: They’ve got the, like, odd couple rapport going.
DAVID: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He’s got his mug.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: He’s got his hat on. So this is where he does the whole like, “I’ll solve my problem by trading another player to my rival—”
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Uh-huh.
DAVID: “—who needs the”— right. Yeah. Love this. Poor Mike Magnante. I remember him.
BOBBY: When I was listening back to the Top 10 of the Decade and listening to Sean, Chris, and Amanda discuss Moneyball—
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: —I thought Chris boiled it down pretty effectively in— in that— the scene. The movie hinges on Billy Beane trading Ricard— for Ricardo Rincón.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: And that is a movie that is entertaining to Amanda Dobbins.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: Someone who does not give a shit about any of the people involved.
DAVID: Forget— fu— fucking me. I’m like, “Ricardo Rincón, right. I guess I remember who that was.” Like—
BOBBY: Right.
DAVID: And like the— right. That like every person in the theater in 2011 is watching this scene and they’re like, “I understand what he’s doing is— is hard and good.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: “They don’t really know who to [1:33:28] here.”
BOBBY: This is a straight shooter right here, you know? This is why the business people really respect [1:33:31]
DAVID: Get your fire on.
ALEX: This is why it resonated with, like, non-baseball people, right? It’s because—
DAVID: Right, right, right.
ALEX: —it’s like— it’s a baseball movie that’s like not really a baseball movie.
BOBBY: He’s eating popcorn out of a coffee filter.
ALEX: And he spits it like—
BOBBY: That’s kind of a lot like you and me in college, Alex, because we ate a lot of popcorn out of things that shouldn’t be eaten out of.
DAVID: Yeah, the— I like this to where— he then complicates his own situation.
BOBBY: Right.
DAVID: Where he’s like, “Wait a second, though. Like, can I, like, get the Mets going?”
ALEX: But it also is very reflective of how Beane operates, which is like, “I’m gonna back myself into a corner—”
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: “—and then operate from there.”
DAVID: Right. Right. [1:34:18]
ALEX: That’s where he’s comfortable. Yeah.
DAVID: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.. All right. Let me look up Ricardo Rincon.
BOBBY: It’s great because he’s also utilizing the fact that people conceive of them as a very smart front office. And so if he calls the dumb team and he’s like, “I want this guy,” but he doesn’t actually want him.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: And then the dumb teams like, “Why does he want this guy?”
DAVID: [1:34:37]
BOBBY: “I better try to trade for this guy.” You know?
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: I had to type in Ricardo, R-I-N-C, before Wikipedia was like, “Do you mean Ricardo Rincon?” Like, that’s how irrelevant he is. He literally— he has 21 career saves.
ALEX: Ricardo Rincon?
DAVID: Yeah. Like that— that— that’s like the— the highest— like the most interesting thing in his, like, box score. He broke into the Major Leagues when he was 27.
BOBBY: He’s talking to the owner and he calls him Steve O.
ALEX: I know.
DAVID: Steve O.
ALEX: He called Brian Sabean, Sabe— Sabester.
BOBBY: Sabester.
DAVID: I do that— I’ll say, I do that with my bosses where I’m like, “Hey, you know, like it’s a way of, like, kind of being—”
BOBBY: I don’t.
DAVID: “I’m scared of you.” Oh, no? You don’t call Simmons, “Billy. Hey, Billy.”
BOBBY: I don’t, no. I say, “Hello, Mr. Simmons.”
DAVID: Oh, yeah?
BOBBY: No. Of course not. No.
DAVID: I’m sure he loves that. Yeah, that sounds like his energy.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: It’s like—
BOBBY: The thinking man.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: There’s no sports movie that accurately depicts—
BOBBY: [1:35:41]
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Like just like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —The Iron Claw coming up this year—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: I know that, you know, professional wrestling is kind of a quasi sport or whatever. But, like—
BOBBY: I dig it, yeah.
DAVID: Yeah, whatever. You know— you know what I’m— like where a lot of wrestling nerds are like, “I left out this and that.”
BOBBY: Right, right, right.
DAVID: And, like, I don’t know, it really simplified some stuff and I’m like, “Yeah, dude. Like, you can’t make a movie that’s just a season—
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: “—of a sport.”
ALEX: Like, go watch the sport if that’s what you’re looking for.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Boring.
BOBBY: Exactly. Otherwise, the—
DAVID: Or watch like a Jon Bois documentary, which I love those things—
ALEX: Yes, exactly.
DAVID: —but those are eight hours long for a reason.
BOBBY: We went on our little Jon Bois kick this year. [1:36:13] year, right?
DAVID: I did them all. I did them all. It was one of those things—
BOBBY: He was like doing— he was like logging them on Letterboxd—
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: —which I didn’t even know they were on Letterboxd.
ALEX: We didn’t even know they were on Letterboxd.
DAVID: Oh, those things are movies. Like I watched one and I was like, “No one has represented how I experienced sports so well before.” Right? Like, the kind of, like, the mix of like nerd— stat nerdery and, like, narrative obsession. Like—
BOBBY: Yeah, just like totally brain disease deranged behavior.
DAVID: Yes. Right. Yeah.
ALEX: Just like rabbit hole after rabbit hole.
DAVID: But like in a non-aggro—
BOBBY: Right.
DAVID: —way because he’s such a non-aggro guy.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Like he doesn’t have an aggro approach to sports.
ALEX: He’s like, “I’m curious, and this is so weird.”
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: “And you’re gonna find it weird as well.”
DAVID: And I’m gonna, like, call out any person, I think, like was annoying or shitty.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: But not— it doesn’t sound like super self-righteous way where it’s like— you know, like, it’s just kind of, like, the best.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: He’s the best.
ALEX: He really is.
BOBBY: Yes. Well, by the way, Jon Bois is a perfect example of why like all of the media disintegrating around us. Like, that’s something— that like hour and 10-minute movie— or basically movies—
DAVID: Yes.
BOBBY: —that you were— can log on Letterboxd, that he should be paid in perpetuity to be able to make those.
DAVID: Yeah, he—
BOBBY: That, like, nobody just— nobody understands that. That doesn’t pitch well to venture capitalists in a boardroom meeting.
DAVID: It’s a fair point because it’s like— right, like he must take like six months to make one of those things.
BOBBY: Yeah, and you can’t put them on TikTok.
DAVID: Yeah, and it’s right. It’s like a long YouTube video. And I’m sure they do well enough that he is employed.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: But no one is like, “Get me a Jon Bois” or whatever.
BOBBY: Exactly.
DAVID: You know, like—
BOBBY: No one is like, “We gotta get the next Jon Bois.”
DAVID: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: Which is— it’s like—
DAVID: Gonna have to cut someone. So rude.
BOBBY: This is what it’s all about right here, though.
DAVID: Mags. I remember Mike— do you— do you remember Mike Magnante? No, you were—
ALEX: I actually don’t, no.
DAVID: You would have been too young for that. I think he is really old at this point. Maybe he was more of a ’90s guy. This hurts.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: it’s so shitty. Because this is his last team. This is the end of him.
ALEX: Oh, is it really?
DAVID: Yeah, that’s the thing. That’s right. He was— the whole ’90s, he was like, you know, a solid relief guy. He pitched an immaculate inning once.
BOBBY: Nice.
ALEX: Okay.
DAVID: Check it out.
BOBBY: Jacob deGrom did that in the All-Star game, though.
DAVID: Well, that’s a good point. Now, he’s a math teacher.
ALEX: Fake— fake game doesn’t [1:38:31]
BOBBY: Jacob deGrom is a math teacher? That’s alarming. He’s not a very smart guy.
DAVID: Mi— Mike Magnante is a— is a math teacher. Jacob— Jacob deGrom is being paid tens of millions of dollars by the Texas Rangers to do nothing, right? Isn’t that what’s happening to him?
BOBBY: But he’s a girl dad.
DAVID: Is he a girl dad like me?
BOBBY: He is a girl dad, yeah. He’s also a boy dad as well. His boys his son’s name is Jaxxon with two X’s.
DAVID: Uh-hmm. [1:38:51]
ALEX: J-A-X-X-O-N?
BOBBY: Yeah— no. No, X-X.
ALEX: Okay. Well, I didn’t know about [1:38:56]
BOBBY: C-K-S-O-N.
DAVID: But they’re silent. They’re silent.
BOBBY: Here’s Rincon.
DAVID: Hola, senor.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Look at that grain. Look at that scoreboard. You don’t get that anymore.
DAVID: [1:39:19] this is when—
ALEX: This is really—
BOBBY: It’s all LED.
DAVID: Exactly.
BOBBY: You know?
DAVID: This is when things were good. I know it’s literally like in the shadow of 9/11 and [1:39:26] but I’m like this was— this was a better time.
BOBBY: Whoever had the over on seven and a half 9/11 mentions, just [1:39:33]
[laughter]
ALEX: This is— I feel like the movie gets really interesting here because it— it’s like the only time it looks like a sport—
BOBBY: Or a [1:39:44]
ALEX: Like a sports movie in the traditional sense.
DAVID: Right. We’re— we’re getting a montage of victories, right.
ALEX: Where— where it’s like— where it’s like now we have a montage, you need something to root for.
DAVID: Yes.
ALEX: Thus far, we haven’t actually seen any of that.
DAVID: And then again, I think sports nerds sometimes will get mad where they’re like— I mean the streak is kind of this like weird, irrelevant, like, you know—
ALEX: Right. It’s this statistical fluke.
DAVID: It’s a baseball thing.
BOBBY: Nothing to do with Moneyball, you know?
DAVID: And, like, sure, it meant they got to the playoffs where they lost to, by the way, a Minnesota Twins team that only had two pitchers under 4 ERA. It’s— Wikipedia just told me.
BOBBY: But you live by the [1:40:18] and you die by them, I know.
DAVID: I’d love to hear Costas, though.
ALEX: It’s what you do.
DAVID: God.
BOBBY: I know. He’s dunzo, though. He is just absolutely—
DAVID: What happened to Costas?
BOBBY: He’s just not entertaining in front of the microphone anymore. He’s—
DAVID: That’s a bummer.
BOBBY: He’s— you might say lost his fastball.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Does he call a lot of games still?
BOBBY: He just got pulled back into the booth for the playoffs as part— this past year.
DAVID: Oh, yeah, that’s right. I remember that.
BOBBY: As part of, like, some broadcasting deal. I forget where he was calling for.
DAVID: I can still do him calling the ’97 World Series.
BOBBY: It’s like—
DAVID: “The Florida Marlins have won the 199—” like, it’s the best call. He’s so good.
BOBBY: He is really good.
ALEX: Yeah, he is good.
BOBBY: Did we put him— so Alex and I did a—
ALEX: Yeah. Yes.
BOBBY: —30 A-listers.
ALEX: I— I advocated—
DAVID: Wait, I’m sorry, what’s the— what’s the concept here?
ALEX: We— we— we ran down the list, we were— we were like, who are—
BOBBY: The 30 most famous people in the baseball world?
ALEX: —baseball’s A-listers?
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Like who are alive or like of all-time?
BOBBY: Alive.
ALEX: We did alive.
DAVID: So like with all-time, we start with [1:41:17]
ALEX: Right. Exactly.
BOBBY: Yeah, right.
ALEX: We were like, who were the people who, like, might actually have like name recognition outside baseball?
DAVID: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. Sure. Because there’s not a lot right now.
BOBBY: We did this last year after the Oscars.
DAVID: Like, you know—
BOBBY: And that’s what made me want [1:41:29]
DAVID: And— yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure.
ALEX: I said— I said Costas and he gave me so much shit for that.
DAVID: Costas is— absolutely.
ALEX: Because I was like— I was like, look, he called the Olympics. He’s on NBC, like, you know, like—
DAVID: No, no. Of course. Bobby Costas is without a doubt the most famous living baseball—
ALEX: Announcer.
DAVID: The pink guy, the pink guy.
ALEX: The pink guy.
BOBBY: No, he’s not the most famous living [1:41:44]
DAVID: Who is?
BOBBY: Joe Buck.
DAVID: I don’t think—
BOBBY: He has called every World Series since, like, 2005.
DAVID: I— I— look, I defend—
ALEX: Did we include Joe Buck?
DAVID: I defend Joe Buck.
BOBBY: I think so.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: We must have— we must have included Joe Buck.
DAVID: I think Bob Costas—
BOBBY: You included fucking Michael Kay, bro.
DAVID: I— that’s— that’s a little silly. I think Bob Costas is more famous than Joe Buck. I do.
BOBBY: Now, though?
DAVID: Yes.
BOBBY: Because this is like a list of that had Shohei Ohtani at number one. Like, we were very much—
DAVID: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand. I understand.
BOBBY: —like trying to place reality in the present tense.
DAVID: I— I still think Bob Costas is a little more famous, but I do think Joe Buck counts, too.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: But so much of Joe Buck’s mystique is people being mad at him.
BOBBY: 28 announcers.
ALEX: Right, yeah.
DAVID: Like, I think Joe Buck— like Joe Buck has the Minnesota Miracle call, “Diggs, sideline, touchdown, unbelievable.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: It is one of the greatest announced calls as football, as football.
BOBBY: This is football, by the way.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: [1:42:33]
DAVID: But it is— when you listen to it, though, you’re like— and I like Joe Buck more than most people, but I’m like, “Where is this guy when, like, the fucking Cubs won the World Series? Like where is he?”
BOBBY: Oh, my God. I know.
DAVID: You know?
BOBBY: He’s had a real change of— he clearly went through, like, a midlife crisis five years ago.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: He wrote a book about his dad.
DAVID: He did.
BOBBY: He stopped trying to impersonate his dad in the booth.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You know? And, like, now is he’s a lot better.
DAVID: He’s— it’s like the fifth most famous thing about Joe Buck, that tweet about the sun rising.
ALEX: Actually, yes.
DAVID: [1:43:00] oh, God or whatever. After 3,000 innings.
BOBBY: “Oh, God, yes.”
DAVID: His best— what’s his best baseball call? Is it, “We will see you tomorrow night.”? I think it’s that.
ALEX: Right. Which— which like isn’t even is—
DAVID: It’s not even a World Series. Yeah, you’re right. Yeah.
ALEX: Right. And I mean, it was like— that was— he was imitating his dad at—
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: —at that one, right? Like—
BOBBY: Was he— was he— wasn’t he imitating the ’86 Mets, the Bucknor call when he did that?
DAVID: No, the Bucknor call is— it gets by Bucknor. That’s all it is, right?
BOBBY: I don’t fucking know.
DAVID: Does he— does he say, “We’ll— we will see you tomorrow night.”? Maybe he does.
BOBBY: I don’t know. I don’t know.
DAVID: The best thing about the Mets winning the World Series is the call is just, “Got him,” and then he doesn’t talk.
BOBBY: So you were born that year?
DAVID: I was born that year.
BOBBY: Goddammit. That’s the worst spot to be in.
DAVID: I was— I was— I was taken to one of those games.
BOBBY: That’s the worst spot to be in.
DAVID: Okay. Yeah.
BOBBY: Is that like, if theoretically, they have won one in your lifetime, but there’s no possible way for you to have any real memory of it.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: There’s no— I have no memory of it beyond like watching tapes, you know, like, little, like, kind of documentary type. And just being raised by parents who are like, “They were— you know, they were great.”
BOBBY: Yeah, but then like ’88 is the most frustrating year in Mets history—
DAVID: But I was—
BOBBY: —because they should have won it again.
DAVID: I was two. I don’t fucking remember that, either.
BOBBY: Yes, man. I know, I know, I know.
DAVID: The Mets were terrible for my entire childhood. And then in like ’90— you know, the late ’90s when I’m a teenager, they are good, but not amazing. They— you know—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: They’re the Piazza Mets.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
DAVID: They’re like pretty good.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: And they kind of fluked their way to a World Series. It’s not like an amazing time to be a Mets fan, like—
ALEX: When is?
DAVID: —for the last 30 years.
ALEX: Yeah, right.
BOBBY: The guy in the crowd looked like John Smoltz.
DAVID: Fuck John Smoltz.
BOBBY: Agreed.
DAVID: Who’s your least favorite of the four Braves guys? The pitchers. Forget your [1:44:40]
BOBBY: I feel like— I feel like it’s hard to be objective about it.
DAVID: Who’s your favorite?
ALEX: Like Smoltz’s exposure like—
DAVID: Yes.
ALEX: I feel like biases against him a lot.
DAVID: You’re right. Smoltz’s— Smoltz’s obviously the worst. You’re right. You’re right.
BOBBY: It’s like become a whole new thing where like we constantly have to, like, unpack things we say on the fucking podcast.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: I think my favorite is probably Maddux.
DAVID: Yeah, mine too.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: It’s the correct answer. I was just wondering.
BOBBY: It’s like, how could you possibly not respect that. But then— but obviously, Glavine went on to be—
DAVID: Yes. Glavine played for the Mets.
BOBBY: —an important Met and he was in the rotate—
DAVID: But I think I—
BOBBY: I think I—
DAVID: [1:45:10]
BOBBY: Maddux is like— that dude rocks.
DAVID: He rocks.
BOBBY: You know? The fact that he just like— this is like so accurate.
DAVID: Just a dork.
BOBBY: And such a good fielder, that he could just like— just nibble off the corner of the plate and make umps give him the calls.
ALEX: Yes..
BOBBY: Like, what a lord. What a lord.
ALEX: I like— I like— that’s when my— my baseball brain regresses back into, and he’s just, like, knows how to throw.
DAVID: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
ALEX: You know, he’s like a—
DAVID: He’s just [1:45:29]
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: You know, he’s a real pitcher.
DAVID: But, like, he— he would also— I just think of him as this like guy with glasses, like writing little things in a notebook where I’m just—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: —like, “Yeah, he’s just like a little computer man.”
BOBBY: And he just looks like a normal guy.
DAVID: He does.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’s like five-foot-eight.
DAVID: He— he— he looked like an actuary.
BOBBY: He’s not actually five-foot-eight. Yeah.
DAVID: Yes. This is great. We’re just watching, like, wordless baseball.
ALEX: I know.
DAVID: Are these—
ALEX: It’s funny that Tim— Tim Hudson’s only— a long appearance in this—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —movie is hitting [1:45:55]
DAVID: He’s getting [1:45:55] and runs.
BOBBY: Are— are these the worst Royals uniforms ever? What the fuck? Why do they look like—
ALEX: They’re—
BOBBY: —the Rockies warmup jerseys?
ALEX: They’re pretty bad, yeah.
DAVID: I don’t think of the Royals as an aesthetically pleasing team, but I guess the powder blue is kind of nice.
BOBBY: Don’t even get me started on the Royals, David.
DAVID: Okay.
BOBBY: Don’t even.
DAVID: Why not?
BOBBY: Because they ruined my fucking life.
DAVID: Well, because they beat the Mets—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —in the World Series.
BOBBY: They had a chance to win the—
DAVID: Eight years ago.
BOBBY: The Mets had a chance to win the World Series when I was 19.
DAVID: Yeah, that would’ve been pretty cool for you.
BOBBY: I would’ve gone crazy. I would have been so annoying for the rest of my life.
ALEX: The trajectory of this podcast would’ve been changed.
DAVID: I live— Bobby, I lived in New York when that— I guess you did, too.
BOBBY: It was insane.
DAVID: [1:46:32] yeah, yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah. We were sophomores in college.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: I— not only with the trajectory of this podcast not be the same, this podcast would not fucking exist.
ALEX: Probably.
BOBBY: This podcast started two years after the Mets lost in the World Series.
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: You know why? Because I had nowhere to put that fucking energy.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: And now, like, this is all happening because of that.
DAVID: It could get out of control for the Athletics and they will not really be affected except their losing streak [1:47:00]
ALEX: Right, exactly.
DAVID: But you feel it. We can no longer [1:47:08] it’s the last game.
BOBBY: Oh, God. Do you think there really was someone who ran on the field during this game?
DAVID: There might have been. It’s the Coliseum, I mean, pretty much anything goes there.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah. Mike Sweeney, name a guy.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: Guys, what do we you think is gonna happen?
DAVID: These are terrible Kansas City uniforms.
ALEX: Yeah, they are.
BOBBY: So bad.
DAVID: Jesus.
BOBBY: So bad.
DAVID: Kind of a stupid franchise.
BOBBY: [1:47:40]
DAVID: But I won’t move them if I’m [1:47:42] they can stay.
ALEX: Yeah. They’re [1:47:44] I— I respect their—
DAVID: They have history.
ALEX: Yeah [1:47:46]
BOBBY: Kansas City is a great town that deserves as much baseball as possible.
ALEX: They have a beautiful ballpark.
BOBBY: It just so happens—
DAVID: You can’t take teams out of the Midwest.
BOBBY: —that fucking Mike Moustakas had to ruin my life.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: You know?
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: It just so happens. It’s like— it’s not my fault Eric Hosmer looks like that.
DAVID: But now they’re pun— you know, it’s like they made a deal with the devil or whatever. They just suck forever.
BOBBY: That’s something anyone cares.
ALEX: Yeah [1:48:09]
BOBBY: Yeah, I mean, the Royals fans, of course, care—
DAVID: True.
BOBBY: —and they’re like mad at the owners who got rich from, you know, propane or whatever.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: I love the— the—
DAVID: I got propane.
ALEX: —temperature in the room just like slowly dropped, because we started talking about the Royals.
DAVID: Fuck the Royals.
ALEX: I was like, “Yeah.” Fuck it, I don’t know.
BOBBY: Goddammit.
DAVID: But I mean, I hate—
BOBBY: Alex Gordon, come on.
DAVID: Who do you hate the most?
BOBBY: Fuck.
ALEX: Like teams-wise?
DAVID: Like, is there a team that still makes your blood boil?
ALEX: There really—
DAVID: There isn’t? You’re— you’re too much of a grownup?
ALEX: I’ve— I’ve—
BOBBY: Well, he won’t admit it, but it’s the Giants.
DAVID: Okay, the Giants
ALEX: It— it has historically been the Giants, but like how— now having moved away, I feel like I’ve— that has softened even— even a lot.
DAVID: You’ve escaped [1:48:45] yeah, yeah, yeah.
ALEX: For a long time, honestly, it was the Red Sox. I fucking hated the Red Sox, because I also like—
DAVID: I mean, I also hated the Red Sox.
ALEX: —moonlighted with, you know, like Yankees fandom as a kid. My mom was like a— a Yankees fan growing up as a kid.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: She still is to this day. She still is a sports fan.
ALEX: Yes. Yeah, exactly. And so that, like, distaste for the Red Sox was, like, ingrained in me.
DAVID: I mean, I just hate the Red Sox, because I had no problem with the Red Sox ’till they won the World Series. And after they won, I was like, “I don’t want to hear another word.”
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: Be quiet. And instead, they not only continued to, you know, whine and talk about their curse and all the shit, they kept winning World Series and being like— I’m just like, “Fuck up.”
ALEX: Right. I feel like a lot of my distaste for teams these days is, like, intellectual, you know? Unlike—
DAVID: Sure.
ALEX: Which is the worst way to, like, engage with the sport.
BOBBY: But it’s s true, though, it’s because like we spend fucking hours every week talking about baseball.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: It’s like we—
DAVID: All right. So talk about this moment, right? I do—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —think this people can make fun of it, but it does get at what this movie is about—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: —which is on one hand, Scott Hatteberg is there because of Billy Beane’s twisted Moneyball concepts, right?
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: On the other hand, his triumphant moment is hitting a world— a homerun, which is not what Billy Beane brought him in, right? As a pinch hitter, which is not what Billy Beane brought him in, you know? And it’s just— this is the magic of baseball.
BOBBY: Yep.
DAVID: And because he hits this homerun at this time, he— he— you know, the streak and he’s had—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: He’s a fucking lefty, by the way.
DAVID: a history.
ALEX: That’s right, he is.
DAVID: And so, like, that’s what the end of the movie is about, right? Like, you know, how can you not love this?
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Even when it’s kind of doesn’t even conform to your like math-y rules of, like, how to hack this sport. You see, he’s got a good eye.
BOBBY: Good take.
DAVID: Good eye.
ALEX: Yeah, I know like—
DAVID: Part of it is—
ALEX: G, double O, D E-Y-E. Good eye. Good eye.
[laughter]
DAVID: Did you play baseball?
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Both of you?
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: What was your positions?
BOBBY: Pitcher.
DAVID: You were a pitcher?
BOBBY: Yeah. My elbow is still feeling it.
ALEX: Second base.
DAVID: I was a second baseman.
ALEX: Yes. That’s why I love Mark Ellis. Little— small, you know, little guy.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: Good with the glove.
BOBBY: Who’s your favorite Met?
DAVID: Of all-time?
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Edgardo Alfonzo.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Isn’t that crazy?
BOBBY: That’s great.
ALEX: Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
DAVID: That like— that was my most intense time of fandom, I think.
BOBBY: Great shot right there.
ALEX: Yep. Great shot.
BOBBY: That’s the natural shot right there.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: The low angle from behind home plate. That’s what they think the umpire cam looks like when they cut to it during the World Series broadcast and it never does.
DAVID: Right. Always.
ALEX: See, here you go, I— pretend I just triggered my little bottle opener.
DAVID: Who— I mean, my—
BOBBY: Good callback.
DAVID: Yeah. My favorite Met, that is the answer. I pulled from the hip on that.
BOBBY: This— this music is so good.
DAVID: It’s so good.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Who’s your favorite Met?
BOBBY: David Wright.
DAVID: Well, that’s— that’s fair,
BOBBY: I know that’s so cliche.
DAVID: No, it’s a great answer.
BOBBY: He’s a lord.
DAVID: He is a lord.
BOBBY: Talk about a guy who would be posting—
DAVID: I was—
BOBBY: —MAGA stuff if he was posting at all, if he knew what the internet was.
DAVID: Don’t— don’t you post, David. Don’t you never post.
BOBBY: Never post.
ALEX: Never post.
DAVID: Never post.
BOBBY: We saw what happened with fucking Mike Piazza. He bought a Italian soccer club.
DAVID: We always— we always knew Mike Piazza was a [1:51:55]
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: We always knew that guy was—
BOBBY: Of course. Of course. He’s from fucking Southern California or whatever.
DAVID: I was a grownup before David Wright, so I think I— I— I loved him, but I— I couldn’t have the same like— I’m—
BOBBY: Right, right, right. Childlike wonder appreciation.
DAVID: Right. Right, right, right. When I was a child, the Mets were pretty bad, so instead my favorite Met is fucking Edgardo Alfonzo.
[laughter]
DAVID: It is. I love that man.
BOBBY: You could have gone like Agbayani.
DAVID: Yeah, I mean, I liked a lot of those guys. Like that team—
BOBBY: Edgardo Alfonzo is a good answer. I mean, underrated.
DAVID: My favorite met like on paper is like Tom Seaver. Heard of that guy?
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah.
DAVID: He was pretty good.
BOBBY: I mean, like, you gotta tip a cap, you know?
DAVID: Exactly.
BOBBY: But I mean, I love Billy Wagner, not just because we share a name.
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: But because that’s like a real self-made guy, you know?
DAVID: I like Billy Wagner. I was always suspicious of him, just because he was such a hayseed, but I loved him.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: I mean, I like a lot of Mets.
BOBBY: Jason Bay is a—
DAVID: You wanna name anyone?
ALEX: I love Jason Bay.
DAVID: But Jason Bay got so bad.
ALEX: Oh, no, he’s— he’s terrible.
DAVID: Oh, my God.
BOBBY: That’s the joke. That’s the joke.
DAVID: Was he a—
BOBBY: Xavier Nady?
DAVID: Yeah, sure.
BOBBY: Interest anyone in a little Xavier Nady?
DAVID: [1:53:05]
BOBBY: You know, actually— unfortunately, deGrom was like getting there for me, as like favorite Met of all-time.
DAVID: Of course. I— I love him.
BOBBY: Just like— because it was just like—
DAVID: I—
BOBBY: Not just the pitching element, but just like the appointment viewing aspect of it.
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: The feeling that like if you were a Mets fan, you were fucking logging on no matter what else was going on in your life.
DAVID: And— well, just— and also like the Seaver-esque kind of like, “We have this.”
BOBBY: Yes, exactly.
DAVID: Like this— but the fact is he’s kind of not that guy. He’s not.
BOBBY: No. And also it just— it leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
DAVID: [1:53:28] in your mouth the way that he left.
BOBBY: Yeah. XXJ.
DAVID: But what about— how do you feel about Pete?
BOBBY: I love Pete.
DAVID: Me, too.
BOBBY: Also, Pete— are you aware of the fact that we’ve recently excavated on the Tipping Pitches Podcast that Pete has excellent taste in punk music?
DAVID: I— I— yes, I am aware of this.
BOBBY: He listens to Pool Kids.
DAVID: So my— my— my— my—
BOBBY: You know, he’s firing up some pop punk.
DAVID: My co-worker, Kaitlin—
BOBBY: A big Paramore fan?
DAVID: Kaitlyn Tiffany, shout-out, is a deep recent Mets fan. Gotten into them— into them in the last few years, and she’s obsessed with Pete, like you’re— would get obsessed with, like, One Direction, right?
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: She’s like— she has like—
BOBBY: She’s, like, making a fan it—
ALEX: She has a stan army with like fan cams.
DAVID: But— but that’s her vibe. And like
BOBBY: Can you introduce me to this person?
DAVID: Of course. We should hang out.
BOBBY: That sounds like someone I would want 1:54:12]
DAVID: We should actually hang up. She’s the best.
BOBBY: Okay.
DAVID: And she because Kaitlin has that kind of a brain, will send me like Instagrams from, like, Mets wives. You know what I mean? Because like it’s a whole world.
BOBBY: I follow [1:54:26] wife on Instagram.
DAVID: It’s a whole fucking world.
BOBBY: It’s a whole world, yeah. Katia Lindor is—
DAVID: And—
BOBBY: A1 since day one right now.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: The vibes of fucking baseball now are so weird.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Like basketball Instagram or whatever, you’re like, “I completely understand the wave like these guys are on.”
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Baseball, it’s like—
BOBBY: They finish the game, they get into the private jet, they smoke weed, and then they drink a couple glasses of red wine, and then this is what you get.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: I— I’ve— we have a Tipping Pitches Instagram account, which we don’t use to post on, but I did go and follow, like, every single active baseball player and it’s the weirdest scroll ever.
BOBBY: It’s so weird.
ALEX: It’s like guys holding fishes, you know?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And—
BOBBY: It’s Mike Trout wearing Eagles gear.
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: It’s A-Rod posting about liabilities.
ALEX: Here— so here you go, here are your— here are your twins.
BOBBY: I love that all you get from this is just the fly out to end the series.
ALEX: Yep.
BOBBY: It’s like— perfectly encapsulates how baseball—
DAVID: Baseball.
BOBBY: You spend fucking eight months— not eight months. You spent six months, seven months watching your team day in and day out, and it’s over in three days.
ALEX: Just like that.
DAVID: [1:55:30] fucking Twins. It’s what— in the book, Billy Beane says, “My shit doesn’t work in the playoffs.” Right? Like, that’s his iconic quote. And, like, you read that, and you’re like, “Well, that makes sense.” Obviously, the playoffs are this statistical anomaly.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: But then you’re also kind of like, “So then why is this your approach?”
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: But that’s the thing about baseball, it’s like— it is the one sport where you can kind of not care about the playoffs.
BOBBY: Kinda, yeah. Because it’s— it’s measuring a different thing.
DAVID: Like Mike Trout where you’re like, “Yeah, that guy never really succeeded in the postseason, but like he’s a Hall of Famer.” Like—
BOBBY: I think that, ultimately, what Billy Beane was admitting, even if he didn’t put it in this way, is that he— what he is doing here is he’s playing with one hand tied behind his back.
DAVID: Yes. Right. Right. He would not have—
BOBBY: And that he acknowledges—
DAVID: —to be this way if he worked for a different team.
BOBBY: But he gets— we’re about to watch him get the chance.
DAVID: But I think that’s—
BOBBY: And he turns it down. You know why? Stockholm Syndrome.
DAVID: I think it’s a little bit Stockholm Syndrome, and it’s a little bit—
BOBBY: Because he doesn’t want to see—
DAVID: What Alex said, he likes to work with his back to the wall. Like— like, that’s how he’s motivated to work.
BOBBY: Yes. I agree.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: But then we kept on giving it— we kept on writing off all of the shortcomings of the methodology, because we never actually saw him tried to put it in practice—
ALEX: Well—
BOBBY: —in another place.
ALEX: Right. The thing is, like, the methodology itself is fine, and reasonable, and, like, works to the extent that teams went and copied it, right? They were like, “Oh, we can’t hire you? We’ll hire—”
BOBBY: But it’s like a square peg in a round hole for a lot of teams. Like, they don’t need to act this way, so why would they?
ALEX: Well, no, they don’t, but I think there’s a reasonable way of saying, “Hey, we’ve been thinking about this baseball thing all wrong. What if we actually start valuing the things that are worth valuing? And also we have a fuck ton of money that we can go spend on superstars.”
BOBBY: But—
ALEX: It’s just like what the Red Sox.
BOBBY: It’s called Moneyball, though. It was never about—
ALEX: I mean— yes.
BOBBY: —valuing those things like they should be valued. It was about getting them because they are undervalued.
ALEX: I mean— absolutely.
BOBBY: And then when it became, “Okay, now we should value guys who get on base a lot more and we should pay them, like they’re Juan Soto, even though they’re on— you know, we should pay Juan Soto like he’s Alex Rodriguez, even though he only hit 240 last year or whatever, which is true.” Now, people don’t want to do it.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Now, the Nationals are like, “I must trade Juan Soto at all costs.” And then the team that trades for him are like, “I must trade Juan Soto at all costs.”
DAVID: Right.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: It’s like now they don’t want to do it because it’s not cheap anymore.
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: It was always about money.
DAVID: Should baseball have a salary cap? You guys wanna talk about it?
BOBBY: This— see, this footage is sick.
DAVID: [1:57:58]
ALEX: [1:57:58]
DAVID: My favorite thing is also like—
BOBBY: I’m gonna take that job like [1:58:01]
DAVID: The weather is appropriate. You know, it’s—
BOBBY: Yep.
DAVID: It’s the offseason, it’s kind of rainy and shitty.
BOBBY: Yep.
DAVID: But you’re just like, “This is— this is a baseball stadium. This is the— this is where—”
BOBBY: God, that’s so sick. Look at that coat.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Look at that coat he dressed up. I just fundamentally don’t believe that John Henry would be walking around in the rain, carrying—
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: —his own fucking umbrella.
DAVID: No, he’s like on [1:58:22]
BOBBY: What is it, lima beans futures? Is that what—
ALEX: Lima beans futures, exactly.
BOBBY: That’s how he got rich? Trading lima bean futures. Are you aware of this fact, David?
DAVID: I’m not aware of that. That’s how he made his money?
BOBBY: [1:58:31]
DAVID: I love how you guys know how— every baseball owner made their money.
ALEX: Yes, uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Every single one, actually. Like, all of them.
DAVID: I do miss the days— Simmons was ranting about this on his podcast, actually, where he was like, you know [1:58:42]
BOBBY: Which podcast?
DAVID: The Bill Simmons Podcast.
BOBBY: Oh, okay. [1:58:44]
DAVID: Where he was like basketball teams used to be owned by like guys who, like, own bowling— bowling alleys or whatever, like, you know— like, you know?
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: In football, Ameri— English football or soccer—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —like the owner used to just be this like guy with a coat.
BOBBY: Man about town.
ALEX: Right. Yeah.
BOBBY: He, like, owns two pubs.
DAVID: Yeah. Who is like— he own like a hotel or something.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Yeah. And he’s just like, “Ah, I think we should do this.” You know? And you’re just like, “This is great. This guy is a literal gangster.” Like, this guy actually should be in jail. And now, it’s like team—
BOBBY: And now it’s like teams are [1:59:12]
DAVID: —teams are owned by like the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Like they’re owned by, like, sovereign nation.
BOBBY: Well, now, the Mets owner should be in jail for different reasons.
DAVID: He probably should be in jail for the— whatever.
BOBBY: Yeah, probably. But he’s gonna bring that World Series home.
DAVID: Yes! That’s [1:59:26] baby! Right to the ground. Best team money can buy.
ALEX: So you—
DAVID: What— okay.
ALEX: So he plays grownup Smalls in The Sandlot?
BOBBY: Oh. Wow. Connectivity.
ALEX: Connectivity. So—
DAVID: Oh, this guy?
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Who is it?
BOBBY: Should— should he— what’s his name?
ALEX: Ar— Arliss How—
DAVID: It’s not Arliss Howard. Is it? Maybe it is. Maybe it is.
ALEX: I don’t— because he’s— he looks a lot older here.
DAVID: Yeah. Okay. But—so—
BOBBY: Maybe they did the De Niro aging technology on him.
DAVID: The World— the World Sox. The— the World Sox. The Red Sox won the World Series in ’04, and yes, they did use sort of like proto Moneyball stuff.
BOBBY: You heard— heard of Theo?
DAVID: Theo Epstein.
BOBBY: What a [2:00:08]
DAVID: But, like, a lot of other World Series victories in the 2000s—
BOBBY: Were so random.
DAVID: —are random. That’s the thing.
BOBBY: Were so random. Yeah.
DAVID: Right? Like they’re not like everyone copying what Billy did, right?
BOBBY: Yes. If— if the— if it wasn’t so narratively tied up, I don’t know that it would have taken off like it did. Like if the Red Sox didn’t— it— openly admit that, like, you know, James—
DAVID: Yeah. We— we— we picked up on the same stuff. Right.
BOBBY: —influenced Billy Beane, who then influenced Theo Epstein, who then influenced every other GM because he was also this, like, 28-year-old handsome guy from the [2:00:37]
DAVID: [2:00:37] right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly. Cult of personality, then I don’t know that it would have taken off in the way that it did. And then the other underrated part about the 2000s is the 2008 Rays making it.
DAVID: That’s the thing. They were good.
BOBBY: It’s like the lowest they were ever and they almost did it, you know? And so then that— that became very enticing to the ownership class, who was like, “Oh, we can just spend $30 million a year on payroll and then maybe win the World Series. And if we don’t, we can say we tried, because we’re being cutting edge.”
ALEX: Right, which has been— what has happened ever since then.
DAVID: No one— no one’s done it yet.
BOBBY: I know.
ALEX: Still waiting— still waiting for that team to win.
BOBBY: Still waiting.
ALEX: One day.
BOBBY: This shit doesn’t work in the playoffs, man. It’s not gonna work for the Rays, either.
DAVID: Right. But, like, fundamentally—
BOBBY: We’re in the fucking playoff game.
DAVID: —there is no strategy that works in the playoffs. It is just random.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Like, why did the Rangers win the World Series? I don’t know. They had some good guys.
BOBBY: It’s like you can pick shoes—
DAVID: Like injuries broke their way. I mean, like, what is the answer?
BOBBY: You can never [2:01:29] anything.
DAVID: The Rangers won the World Series.
ALEX: Yeah, the Rangers. Yeah.
DAVID: Texas.
BOBBY: The answer is they fucking made as many competitive moves as possible.
DAVID: Right. They— they got some good guys.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: But nowadays, generally, it tends to be that, like, player development is the new Moneyball.
DAVID: Sure. Sure, sure.
BOBBY: But it’s so much harder to quantify than like what he was doing with like, “Oh, this guy has good OBP. Let’s get him.” You know?
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s like so much harder to quantify how you turn someone into—
DAVID: And also, once you have them—
BOBBY: —Mookie Betts [2:01:59]
DAVID: —how pivotal they are to you winning.
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: Like, that’s the thing about baseball. It’s like, you know—
ALEX: Right. You don’t have a guy who’s gonna take over the game. You don’t know—
DAVID: Right. It’s hard to measure who the actual difference maker was at the end of the day.
BOBBY: Why doesn’t he take the job, David?
DAVID: I— like I— he likes to play with his back against the wall.
BOBBY: Because he’s a father of daughters.
DAVID: Well, that’s also true. That’s also true. He doesn’t want to leave the Bay Area.
ALEX: Move schools.
BOBBY: How many times do you think they shot that?
DAVID: 10 to 15. It’s so funny. You knucklehead. This is maybe my favorite scene of the movie.
BOBBY: It’s so good.
DAVID: Right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: This [2:02:36] is getting off is amazing.
DAVID: The caller.
BOBBY: Yeah, it’s so good. I would— I would [2:02:42] this.
DAVID: So soft.
BOBBY: It’s like a dry fit underneath a real sweater. It’s on a piece of paper in his pocket.
DAVID: Did he say the number or did he just say, “This would make you the highest pa— paid GM [2:03:14]?
BOBBY: I think— I think he just says that. Yeah.
DAVID: Do we know what the number was?
BOBBY: It was like 8 million or something.
DAVID: That’s a lot of money.
BOBBY: Yeah. I don’t know why that number is in my head.
DAVID: Let’s find out.
BOBBY: All right. Yeah.
DAVID: Whoa. 12.5 million.
ALEX: That’s a— that’s a good chunk of change.
DAVID: In 2002, that’s a lot of money.
BOBBY: Annually?
DAVID: It just says 12.5.
BOBBY: That’s more than they paid for Johnny Damon.
DAVID: That’s true. It was five years.
BOBBY: All right.
DAVID: Yeah. But for— I mean, like—
BOBBY: That’s like—
DAVID: [2:04:00] don’t make that now.
BOBBY: Yeah, that’s like—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —downpayment on a two-bedroom in New York money.
DAVID: Bill’s lost.
BOBBY: L. L.
DAVID: So handsome. He wanted to win here.
BOBBY: And then he proceeded to never try that hard ever again.
ALEX: Yeah, pretty much.
DAVID: That’s the thing.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: When are you good again after this? The A’s.
ALEX: When are the A’s good again?
DAVID: Yes.
BOBBY: Never.
DAVID: Oh.
BOBBY: I mean, after this movie.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: I mean—
BOBBY: Intermittently. I mean, this is their— the [2:04:38]
DAVID: They’re like okay.
ALEX: Yeah. They have some high— they have some— they have some mids and lows over the course of the 2000. But like 2011, 2012—
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: —they’re do— they’re doing this like magic shit again.
DAVID: Hmm.
ALEX: Where it’s like they’re pulling together the players who they have gotten up— off the like scrap heap.
BOBBY: They [2:04:58]
ALEX: And they— and they worked their way into the playoffs like— like four years in a row.
DAVID: But did they ever win a series?
ALEX: No. No. I mean, they never made it past the DS.
DAVID: The DS?
BOBBY: They won like over 100 games in 2015 or ’16. ’16, I think.
DAVID: I vaguely remember those.
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: One of those.
BOBBY: They— or maybe it was 2007— I don’t really remember. They—
DAVID: This is my— this is my [2:05:29]
ALEX: This is so Sorkin, too. He’s [2:05:31]
DAVID: And it’s— it sums it all up perfectly.
ALEX: Yep. Uh-hmm.
DAVID: He’s gonna go for it. Falls. Rolls. Is this real, this footage?
ALEX: I think this is real.
DAVID: It like— or—
ALEX: But it’s— this guy— I mean, this guy, Jeremy Brown—
DAVID: This is a real guy?
ALEX: —is real.
BOBBY: Is a real guy, yeah. Jeremy Brown comes up in like the first chapter of Moneyball.
DAVID: Sure, sure, sure.
BOBBY: Him and Youkilis—
DAVID: Youkilis.
BOBBY: —and—
DAVID: The Greek god of walks.
BOBBY: Yeah. And Swisher, and like all these guys are [2:06:00]
DAVID: They’re— they’re favorites, yeah. And like Beane’s response to this is the perfect line—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —and it sums up the movie.
BOBBY: I tend to think that’s not real footage because why would they be zooming in on the fir— on him on first base like that?
DAVID: I don’t know.
ALEX: I get— but it’s Minor League Baseball, you know?
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: That’s how these things are shot.
DAVID: Just like a rando.
BOBBY: I think that this scene is like—
DAVID: Say it, Billy. Say the line. Ahh, so good.
BOBBY: Sorkin.
DAVID: That—
BOBBY: That’s—
DAVID: That—
ALEX: That actually is my—
DAVID: —Sorkin—
BOBBY: —is my favorite line.
DAVID: I know.
BOBBY: It’s so good.
DAVID: I know.
ALEX: I like— that— how can you not be romantic about baseball [2:06:54] has been so ingrained in my mind—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: —that, like, I kind of forget that— that’s where I know this from.
DAVID: This is where it’s from.
ALEX: Like, I’m just like, “Oh, well, everyone’s always been saying that.”
DAVID: Pete, you’re a good [2:07:08] what does that sign mean with the head is open—
BOBBY: I don’t know. I just noticed that, too.
DAVID: There’s a sign where someone’s head is cracked open—
BOBBY: I wonder, like, we’re taking the like [2:07:16]
DAVID: —and they’re breaking [2:07:16] through it.
ALEX: Yeah, I know.
BOBBY: —the Moneyball where like—
DAVID: What does it mean?
BOBBY: —this must mean something.
ALEX: They did a really good job of making the A’s stadium look like it [2:07:23]
DAVID: I’m sure they— right. I’m sure they really, like, worked on—
ALEX: [2:07:26] yeah.
DAVID: I mean, the— the monitors— every monitor in this movie is perfect.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: Oh, he’s out there on the field? What’s he doing? It’s like— he’s like communing with the Oakland Coliseum.
BOBBY: But this is the best feeling on Earth. Have you ever laid on a Major League Baseball—
DAVID: No.
BOBBY: —center field?
DAVID: Why would I have done that?
BOBBY: So the Dodgers do this thing where, like, every Friday, they do fireworks and you can go on the field for it.
DAVID: Sure.
BOBBY: Which I’m sure is logistical nightmare for their grounds crew—
DAVID: Probably.
BOBBY: —to clean it up every time. But like being out there and literally laying your face on the grass of a Major League Baseball field—
DAVID: That’s awesome.
BOBBY: Like Dodger stadium’s Major League Baseball field, the most beautiful place on Earth beautiful for my money.
DAVID: And a beautiful city. Absolutely.
BOBBY: Kind of like changed me.
DAVID: So like—
BOBBY: Every stadium should do that.
DAVID: I’m doing a commentary with you guys, so I’m not gonna like crack up at this. But, like, know that I can watch this movie and, like, really crack up [2:08:17]
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Yeah.
BOBBY: Look at the audio fidelity of this recording that she gave him.
ALEX: Oh. I know. I know.
BOBBY: And they got [2:08:24] a professional studio or something.
DAVID: It’s— she’s kind of about what’s going on with you if you just think about it.
ALEX: Yep, I know.
DAVID: Love is a riddle.
BOBBY: Are you telling me— are you telling me it’s a metaphor?
ALEX: It’s a metaphor.
DAVID: [2:08:32] a metaphor. I’m just saying.
BOBBY: Sorkin. Sorkin really did it with this one.
DAVID: He really did.
BOBBY: This is like his emotional—
DAVID: And Pitt— Pitt is crushing this. You know, more— less is more. We get it. He’s not fucking going anywhere. Snap focus.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Great Oakland— great Oakland footage.
ALEX: [2:09:03] scenery.
DAVID: Just shipping containers.
ALEX: Yeah
BOBBY: They drop the net sound out of those scene, too. It’s just the song.
DAVID: Best picture, man.
ALEX: Hmm.
DAVID: They gave it to the fucking artists. Those chumps. God, it’s so good.
BOBBY: The artist is not— is not terrible. It’s just not best picture.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: This just really gets hurt but [2:09:34]
ALEX: Oh, they say the number. Okay.
DAVID: They said that. I forgot they do say it. Right. Yep.
ALEX: And then what happened?
DAVID: The A’s are still waiting to win the World Series. Yeah, that’s the best they can do for kind of like—
BOBBY: Right.
DAVID: —Billy Beane was right.
ALEX: Right.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: Embracing the philosophy champion in them.
DAVID: It’s not untrue.
BOBBY: It’s not.
DAVID: It’s a bit narrativized, but it’s— it’s— it’s true.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: They were gonna do it whether or not Billy Beane became a cult figure anyway.
DAVID: I guess so.
ALEX: Yes.
DAVID: Both Billy Beane and them figured out the Bi— Bill James thing, be it in parallel or not, yeah.
BOBBY: Well, Bill— Bill James has been working for the Red Sox—
DAVID: I know.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —for, like, the better part of 30 years, you know?
DAVID: Yeah. He’s posted. Posting his ass off down there.
BOBBY: Change his password.
DAVID: He’s retiring, right? Like, didn’t he kind of announce, like, “I’m”— Bill James, like he’s winding it down?
ALEX: I don’t know. Is he?
DAVID: I think he is. I don’t know.
ALEX: Wow. Bill Jim’s hanging it up.
DAVID: Well, he’s fucking old as balls.
ALEX: Yes. Yes.
BOBBY: think that basically Billy Beane is retiring too.
DAVID: Right. He— like you said, he basically is—
ALEX: I mean, he’s been retired for, like, two years.
DAVID: He’s pivoted to other sports and stuff.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Mike De Luca, who’s in the producing [2:10:40] that’s the— the kind of maniac who gets a movie like this made—
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: —like for his [2:10:43] Scott Rudin. That’s the kind of moody maniac [2:10:46] will be paid by throwing phones at other people and yelling at assistants. Wally Pfister, Nolan, cinematographer, does an amazing job on this.
BOBBY: Who scored this?
DAVID: It’s literally— well, it’ll say. It’ll say here, though.
BOBBY: We’re about to find out. So we’re in the credits now, of course.
DAVID: I think the score is literally mostly explosions in the sky—
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: —songs and stuff.
ALEX: Is it actually in— because I always—I was never sure if it was like—
DAVID: I’m not sure. Right someone [2:11:12]
ALEX: —someone trying to do an explosion in the sky imitation, but—
BOBBY: I can’t believe Robin Wright is just like the fifth bill name in this, but she’s—
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: —in the— in the movie for, like, 90 seconds.
DAVID: Yeah, she’s famous.
BOBBY: No, I know. So why did—
DAVID: Yeah [2:11:21]
BOBBY: She was there. They should have written in some more things for— for his wife.
DAVID: Jack McGee, Nick Searcy, the— these are the, you know [2:11:28] guys.
ALEX: The [2:11:28] guys, yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah.
DAVID: Casting, Francine Maisler. Do we get a composer? Mychael Danna, right. Okay. So yeah, he’s doing a fake— fake explosions in the— fake post rock.
BOBBY: Any takeaways this time through that you weren’t expecting?
DAVID: Just fun talking to you guys about baseball.
BOBBY: Didn’t remember? Yeah.
DAVID: I don’t talk to enough people about baseball.
BOBBY: Well, the invite is always open for the Tipping Pitches Podcast. You’re always welcome to come on.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Bring me on. I’m just not that smart about current baseball.
BOBBY: That’s okay. You don’t have to say that.
DAVID: I mostly would just ask you guys questions, being like, “Explain to me why this is going.”
BOBBY: That’s actually—
ALEX: That’s honestly probably good.
BOBBY: That’s like a funny [2:11:57]
ALEX: [2:11:58] needs a little bit.
DAVID: Well, I’m gonna really tap it this year. Yeah. I mean, Kaitlin kind of got me a little back into it as well, just like I went to some games with her. She’s so obsessed with the Mets. And like she can tell me about what’s happening right now and I can tell her about like—
BOBBY: Yeah. Putting into context with—
DAVID: That’s it. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: With that Edgardo Alfonzo stats.
DAVID: Oh, yeah. He was a great third baseman.
BOBBY: Alex, final thoughts on Moneyball this time through?
ALEX: You know—
BOBBY: Greatest ba— greatest baseball movie ever?
ALEX: I— in my— in my book, yeah
DAVID: What are your other favorites that we haven’t mentioned?
ALEX: I— that’s a really— I mean, I really—
DAVID: Rookie of the Year?
ALEX: I really do like Field of Dreams. I really like Angels in the Outfield, the, like, Disney-fied version.
DAVID: I— yeah. I haven’t seen that movie since I was a kid. I remember being—
ALEX: I— I— I loved it as a kid.
DAVID: Yeah.
ALEX: It’s like— it’s very corny. It’s very sweet.
DAVID: Yeah. Major League?
ALEX: Major League, I— very similar subject matter, I guess. Yeah, I do—
BOBBY: Major League is a little too dark to watch now that the A’s are actually being stolen.
ALEX: Right. Yes.
DAVID: Sure. Sure.
ALEX: I mean, it’s like— it hits very, very close to home.
DAVID: Right. Right.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Mine is Bull Durham. I mean, that’s [2:13:07]
DAVID: Well, Bull Durham is a great pick. Bull Durham is about like—
BOBBY: Bull Durham, like, invented my personality.
DAVID: —baseball as a personality.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly.
DAVID: Right. You know, it’s less— right. Yeah, yeah. Obviously, that’s first baseball—
BOBBY: [2:13:16] science and more about baseball [2:13:18]
DAVID: A League of Their Own is also like— about like—
BOBBY: Yes.
DAVID: I— like, you know, the best ones usually are about the romance of the sport,
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Right? Like—
BOBBY: Well, that’s why this is such a subversion of that—
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: —but then it don’t let it go. It doesn’t let it go.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: What are some— Mr. 3000. I’m just trying to think of like any baseball movie now.
BOBBY: I think The Natural is great, too.
DAVID: Yeah [2:13:37]
BOBBY: But that would be a wild watchalong for us because there’s— that movie is very slow.
DAVID: It is.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: It is slow, yeah.
BOBBY: It’s just— it’s not paced like 2010s movie.
DAVID: No, not at all.
BOBBY: But Redford is—
DAVID: And also Redford is like—
BOBBY: —down—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
DAVID: —you know, 46 in it, but yeah, he rocks.
BOBBY: David Sims, thank you so much for joining.
DAVID: Thanks for having me guys.
BOBBY: This was so much fun.
DAVID: This was a blast.
BOBBY: Anything that you’d like to plug here at the end of a two-hour and 20-minute—
DAVID: Patreon.
BOBBY: —podcast episode on Patreon? We’re gonna drop this one on the feed, probably, at some point. We’ll unlock it.
DAVID: Oh, yeah, sure whate— whatever.
BOBBY: We’ll unlock it for the people.
DAVID: Let me get you some subscribers if I can. Yeah, Blank Check, we have a Patreon, too, movie podcast. I write for The Atlantic. I’m a film critic there for the last ten years. That’s what I do.
BOBBY: Just on your spare time.
DAVID: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know, you’re doing film criticism for—
DAVID: Right.
BOBBY: —The Atlantic.
DAVID: The Mighty Rio Grande, that’s sort of post-Rocky song—
ALEX: Okay. Yes. Yeah.
DAVID: —right, that they use, right? Yeah. Yeah, that’s it. Thanks for having me, guys. This was a blast. Thanks for doing this with me.
ALEX: Thanks for doing this. Thanks for chilling in my— in my apartment.
DAVID: Your apartment’s great. Great apartment. Haven’t seen Bobby’s, though. Keeping me away.
BOBBY: Blame my landlord.
ALEX: Yeah.
DAVID: Landlord decided to turn your heat off when it’s fucking 18 degrees outside.
BOBBY: I hear that the way to get your landlord to do stuff is to say it on a podcast. You know, you’re like [2:14:50] actual legal—
DAVID: Oh, yeah. But behind the paywall?
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —actions to say at the end of a podcast. Okay.
ALEX: Oh, you’re gonna start saying, “I’ve been advised by my lawyer to inform you.”
BOBBY: Thank you everybody for listening. I don’t know when our— our next Patreon watchalong will be, or what it will be, or who it will feature, but we will provide that information at a later date.
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello, everybody. I’m Alex Rodriguez. Tipping Pitches. Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most. Tipping Pitches. So, we’ll see you next week. See ya!
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