Bobby and Alex give some quick reactions to the owners’ unanimous vote to relocate the Oakland A’s to Las Vegas, then bring on recently-retired reliever Trevor May to talk about his second career as a content creator, how his rant against A’s owner John Fisher went viral, what Fisher’s motivations for selling the team might be, the end-of-season gift the notoriously penny-pinching A’s owner got all the players, Beats by Rob, what he puts on when he has the aux cord in the clubhouse, and more.
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Songs featured in this episode:
Kississippi — “Around Your Room” • Antarctigo Vespucci — “Freakin’ U Out’” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Transcript
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and be able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitch and kind of help out so he wasn’t typical pitches.
So tipping pitches we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand what tipping pitches all about? That’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: You know, Alex, the way that this podcast usually starts is that I ask you a question. And then even though that question might be hard to answer or confusing, you still try. You do try to answer the quest— you try your darndest. Is that— is that true?
ALEX: I would say I put a good amount of effort into providing intellectual sounding responses to your often out— out there questions.
BOBBY: Are you calling me an anti-intellectual? Is that what you’re saying about my questions that they’re— that they’re maybe dumb?
ALEX: No, not at all. I think— I think you throw the gauntlet. There— there are oftentimes so highbrow that it’s a— it’s a high bar for me to meet.
BOBBY: You make it sound like every podcast starts with, like, a new trolly question.
ALEX: You’re right.
BOBBY: The— the fact that you try to answer my questions— well, first of all, I— I appreciate that. Thank you. You know, we’re engaging here—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —human to human in the normal form, which is—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —podcasting for thousands of people to listen to.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: But second of all, it’s just one of the many ways that you’re different from the man named Dave Kaval, who is the president of the Oakland Athletics.
ALEX: Tell me more.
BOBBY: I would like to read you the first question in the Q&A article that our friend Evan Drellich wrote after the Oakland Athletics had their move to Las Vegas plan unanimously approved by Major League Baseball’s ownership. Evan did a Q&A with Dave Kaval who has been the— the relocation guy. He has been the guy at the center of this charge. He was tasked with finding a new stadium. Come hell or high water, anywhere, in any jurisdiction across this great land that is the United States of America. Here’s the question, in light of the owners voting 30-0 to approve this, “Could anything halt the move to Las Vegas now?” Here’s Dave Kaval’s response. Let me know when you hear him answer that question. Stop me when you hear him answer that question.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: “I think today was the big step, today was the key step. It was a four-month, very thoughtful and deliberate process with the league, with many different levels of approval and pushback and negotiation to get to this point. And I think it was handled very professionally, in accordance with the original memo on relocation. We’re really excited about where we are, and we’re really proud that we were able to get a unanimous vote. I think that’s a big deal.” And end of the answer.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: Let me just remind you of the question. “Could anything halt the move to Las Vegas now?” “I think today was the big step.”
ALEX: They’re really good at— at posing answers that make it hard to disagree with, because it’s hard to tell what the stance is that they are actually taking. Today sure was a big step. I feel like I can’t— I can’t push back on that.
BOBBY: Evan follow with a question. “The Athletic has reported the success of the team could potentially hinge on tourism. Do you see it that way, if not, how do you see it?” Kaval responds, ” I think our success on the business side is going to be balanced. There’s gonna be two things that need to be balanced.” Okay, wait, wait. Are you ready to write this down? There’s two things.
ALEX: Two things?
BOBBY: I’ll make sure your notebook—
ALEX: I have my Notepad ready.
BOBBY: ” One is the strength of the local market, and local fans, the 2.2 million people who live in Southern Nevada coming to games and supporting the team. Everybody will come.”
ALEX: Everyone will come.
BOBBY: If this is what they meant when they said, “If you build it, they will come.” If you build a stadium in the desert that nobody asked for, millions of people who live in Southern Nevada will drive hundreds of miles to come to it—
ALEX: They’ll—
BOBBY: —to a— to a team that lost 112 games and has no top 100 prospects coming.
ALEX: They’ll drive to it without even knowing why they’re driving there, right? They’ll be— they’ll be tossing the names around in their mind, Shea Langeliers, Zack Gelof.
BOBBY: Okay, that was the first— the first side of the balanced equation that we have here that Kaval was talking about.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And then there’s the tourists, the 45 million people a year who come to Las Vegas, and both of those are going to need to be part of a successful financial business, a business plan. And we feel that if you look at the Raiders, and if you look at the Golden Knights, you see two examples, shining stars, actually, in terms of success. Those teams both in the 40th media market in the country and [4:43] cellphone have the highest ticket revenue in their respective sports. I was led to believe that ticket revenue wasn’t important.
ALEX: Right. I’m struggling to see the correlation between that and product that fans are interested in engaging with. You could actually argue that the— the higher the ticket revenue, the more of an indictment that is on the accessibility of the product that you’re putting onto the field maybe? That’s like when— when Elon says, “No, we’re— we’re going for total user seconds.” It’s like, “Well, I guess.”
BOBBY: That very real metric that we all can agree on, total user seconds.
ALEX: Right. I guess a small of people are spending a lot of resources.
BOBBY: The Vegas— the Raiders being the example for why you shouldn’t move your team to Vegas is so sick. They built that stadium, and nobody really comes there. The reason that the ticket revenue is high because they sold a bunch of box seats to companies, not because the dedicated Raider fans are flying out from Oakland every week to spend the weekend in Las Vegas—
ALEX: Right. The Raiders are—
BOBBY: —and see their Raiders
ALEX: —are— are 30th out of 32nd in— in attendance this year. So I just I just want to throw that out there.
BOBBY: Even better than I could have imagined. Even better. Oh, it’s so beautiful. We don’t have time to do the entire Evan Drellich, Dave Kaval Q&A, but I did want to— I did want to do one more question. ” Two other Las Vegas attractions, F1 and the Sphere, are not meeting expectations. Do you see any concern in that?” Here’s Dave Kaval’s response, “Those are such different products in so many ways.”
ALEX: That— wow.
BOBBY: ” I’ve tangentially been involved in both: I’ve been to the events, and I’ve gotten the tours, and I’ve seen it, and they’re very impressive. I don’t know if they’re the best example.”
ALEX: That’s— hang on, that’s not being— that is not being involved in either of those projects. I’ve been to both and taken a— I’ve taken a tour of Yankee Stadium. I’m not— I’m—
BOBBY: You’re involved with the— you’re involved with the Yankees?
ALEX: I wouldn’t say I’m involved with that enterprise.
BOBBY: You’re in bed with the Yankees in many ways.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I think one thing is clear that Vegas attracts so much interest globally, whether it— whether it is F1, or the Sphere. And it really is the place where people are having the global conversation about these new trends. And whatever the new Zeitgeist is in the world, and I think that’s exciting for baseball and the A’s.
ALEX: That—
BOBBY: So he takes Evans question about how F1 and the Sphere are failing and he’s like, “Actually, no, this is the global Zeitgeist.” Amazing response.
ALEX: I love how— how people are— he— he implies that this is where people are having the conversations about these trends, right? And all I can think of is people sitting in the stands at an F1 race being like, “What a shitty trend this is. Boy, what a mistake it was to decimate our city for this.”
BOBBY: People at the Sphere being like, “We’re the global Zeitgeist right now.” Do you— like you’re looking around pointing at each other like the Paul Rudd meme.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Who would have thought? “We’re the global Zeitgeist.” What an—
ALEX: Oh, my God.
BOBBY: —amazing— one more bonus one for you.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: ” Top level, is this a bet to move to Las Vegas? A gamble? At least some in ownership think that it could go one direction, but it could also go another direction.” Dave Kaval’s response, “That’s true in any business decision, I suppose.” Oh.
ALEX: Oh, Dave. Oh, Davey.
BOBBY: He just keeps doing it. You know, he just keeps doing it. It’s like every time you think he can’t top himself, he throws on a pair of sunglasses and an A’s lanyard.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And he’s like, “Evan, call me when you get a second.”
ALEX: This is why I’m really mad that he’s off Twitter these days, because he’s got these gems in the chamber.
BOBBY: Well, we have to cherish this because as soon as the A’s break ground in Las Vegas, his ass is getting the pink slip. He’s dunzo.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’s canned.
ALEX: Can I—
BOBBY: That’s when you— that’s when you apply. That’s when you come in.
ALEX: Right. Well, I’ve obviously been involved in this project from the very beginning, since I was born, you could say.
BOBBY: “I’ve been tangentially related to these projects.”
ALEX: I want to read more one more question and answer for you. Is that all right?
BOBBY: Right. At this point, we’re just gonna do the whole interview. It doesn’t even matter.
ALEX: We are— I’ve— I should— I—
BOBBY: We have an interview with Trevor May coming up, but we’re doing— we’re recreating an interview that ran in print first.
ALEX: Well, actually, I— I should note that— that is not from— what I’m about to read is not from this interview. Actually, it’s from a— it’s from— it’s a couple weeks old. You may have seen this, but I— we would not be staying true to who we are here on Tipping Pitches if we did not at least reference this on the podcast once.
BOBBY: Okay, great.
ALEX: I’m gonna read the question and answer and then maybe you can try and divine who— who the person is, who is giving this interview. “Your ticketing startup jump is trying to compete with Ticketmaster at a time when many customers are looking for a more level playing field of fan swarms. Are you a Swifty or in a Beyhive?” “Oh, I’m both. What they’re doing is incredible. I mean, what they’re doing for young women out there, equality. All the good things we want our young daughters to have. I mean, Beyonce and Taylor, they couldn’t have two better.” Do— do you know who said this?
BOBBY: Wait, so it’s someone in the baseball world, I have to assume.
ALEX: It is someone in the baseball world. Someone— someone you— you— what some might say we know very well, who’s very near and dear to our hearts.
BOBBY: Alex Rodriguez.
ALEX: Boom. Boom. “You know, what they’re doing for young women out there, equality.”
BOBBY: Anything else, Alex? I— so A-Rod is so many things, but you do have to remember, he is a father of daughters.
ALEX: He is.
BOBBY: You have to factor that in, when you factor in his weird behavior. He’s just a guy trying to be a dad to teenage daughters. It’s tough out there.
ALEX: It is.
BOBBY: From what I’ve heard, I’m 27. I don’t know.
ALEX: I— I love the— because he very clearly did not want to wade into this discourse and get— get one fan base mad at him, right? So he’s like, “I’m gonna— I’m gonna kind of toe the line a little bit, go middle of the road, and just talk about what— what they do.” They’re— they’re women artists. There haven’t always been— there haven’t always been women artists. So what they’re doing is fighting for equality.
BOBBY: Oh, A-Rod. That was from a Wall Street Journal interview he gave a couple of weeks ago where he also divulged that he doesn’t actually, personally interview everyone who is hired at his company. Only— only the— the four or five direct reports that he has, which just means I need to set my bar a little bit higher in my job applications.
BOBBY: Well, I thought you were applying to be his executive assistant. So presumably, he would want to interview the person who’s going to be his [11:37] assistant.
ALEX: [11:38]
BOBBY: You— again, you already have a leg up. Your name is Alex. Like, listen, here, you don’t have to remember another name. You know, a lot of people— like anybody whose name is Alex, Derek, David, Pedro, you’re in. Those are, like, five names he already knows.
ALEX: He has a limited capacity for names that he can retain.
BOBBY: No, because he’s thinking about assets.
ALEX: He really is.
BOBBY: He has to remember every ticker symbol for all of the Fortune 500 companies that are publicly traded. He can’t remember names like Bobby. I could never get that job.
ALEX: No. I— I didn’t know he start— was starting a ticketing startup. Like, I— I guess I could’ve guessed that.
BOBBY: Yeah, that’s news to me.
ALEX: — but—
BOBBY: Everybody wants to have a ticketing startup. The amount of like random ticket apps that I’ve had to download just to, like, go to one concert, it’s like—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: At least appreciate it when it works, you know?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: If you’re gonna force me to download a new app, it better work well.
ALEX: Access.
BOBBY: Better work well.
ALEX: DICE— Dice—
BOBBY: DICE?
ALEX: —is the— is the big one in the— in, like, the—
BOBBY: DICE?
ALEX: —email world.
BOBBY: Right, DICE is hot right now.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I emailed— I— I sent you a ticket on the DICE app, and I feared that it might be lost in the ether because I didn’t know what email address it sent it to. And then all of a sudden, it was in your app. I don’t know how they did it.
ALEX: I love—
BOBBY: Science.
ALEX: I love your—
BOBBY: Divine rites.
ALEX: —your just, like, utter confusion that— like, that arises in you when there’s like a piece of technology that you— that, like, especially works with the Cloud or something. It’s like you immediately revert to Boomer— we were talking about RSS feeds the other day when launching the— the Patreon feed and you were like, “I just— I don’t understand how this technology works. Like— so how is it gonna—”
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: “—get into each person’s feed? They’re gonna have a different—
BOBBY: I—
ALEX: “What’s going to happen when they unsubscribe? How does this— I don’t understand.”
BOBBY: I do understand how an RSS feed reads.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: How— how an RSS feed works and how an RSS feed reader takes it. But how—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —for each individual patron if they unsubscribe and re-subscribe, so it makes its own RSS feed for every single person? I mean, it’s not like RSS feeds are a finite resource that— that it’s just a couple of digits, you know—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —in code. It’s not like we’re running out of it. It doesn’t cost that much to make an RSS feed. But it just feels like a— kind of—
ALEX: You actually— you have to mine Bitcoin to create new RSS feeds.
BOBBY: Well, you’re always mining Bitcoin with your server farms offshore.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: You work for— you work for an environmental sustainability company, because you’re trying to offset all of the negative effects that you’ve had by mining Bitcoin for the last five years. I was just like— so it’s just a unique RSS feed for every single person. Like, how does this work? I don’t get it. I don’t get it. I don’t want to get it. I don’t get it. But the DICE thing— now there’s just so much free promotion for DICE.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s that I am so shocked when things actually do work, because so few things are functional—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —in our technological world these days. Like, you try opening up the Criterion app on Samsung Television. There’s no search bar. You just have to scroll and hope you find the movie. Hope you find the director. Who decided that? Who decided that?
ALEX: I love it. You’re becoming— you’re becoming a— a UX guy just like me.
BOBBY: I’ve always been a UX guy but not out of, like, personal interest, mostly out of, like, deep frustration.
ALEX: Right. Like, personal inconvenience.
BOBBY: I’m not like when the UX is good, I’m not like, “Oh, thank you. This is— this is lovely.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: “I appreciate the delicate differences between this and another thing that has good UX.” But when it’s bad, I know how to complain. I mean—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: —six years of this podcast is evidence of that.
ALEX: Although I should know you were— you were singing— you were singing the virtues of the Patreon podcast player—
BOBBY: Yeah, it’s pretty good.
ALEX: —just— just the other day.
BOBBY: Pretty good. And you know what? It didn’t downgrade the audio or anything. Sounded good. Listened to it in multiple places. And I care about that kind of stuff.
ALEX: You do. You can take this man’s word for it.
BOBBY: I’m just a craftsman. I don’t know what to tell you. I just approach life like it’s one big craft. I was never good at arts and crafts in schools, and I have to be good at a craft in my profession, too. Get over that. Okay. Someone who’s good at his craft is Trevor May, and we talked to him for a good hour about many things, about the Major League Baseball Players Association, of course, about his feelings about the A’s and John Fisher, which are in the news this week. Pop punk music. He actually, legitimately broke some news. It’s not like important news, but it’s funny news.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And everybody listening will— will appreciate it. And Trevor was really— really generous with his time, and we were happy to finally make it happen since when he went on his John Fisher rant, there was just dozens and dozens of people in both of our mentions being like, “Trevor May, go on Tipping Pitches.” Before we go to Trevor, do you want to talk at all about the owner vote to say that the A’s can move to Las Vegas? Is there anything else that you want to say that Dave Kaval didn’t already openly, and honestly, and transparently elicited in Evan Drellich’s Q&A?
ALEX: I feel like I could probably go on for hours, and end up sounding like a broken record with it [16:55]
BOBBY: Save it for the bonus— the bonus feed, bro.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Alex monopod— a three-hour monopod about the A’s.
ALEX: I— Like, I mean, I don’t really know what to say. The— the slow sort of drip, drip of infamy information about this move over the last year or two has probably softened the edges of this sort of thing, right? Because it doesn’t feel like the rug getting ripped out from— from under me. It sort of feels like the final piece of the puzzle in my— my masterpiece of misery, you know? Like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like, “All right. Well, I was wait— I was waiting for that. At least, now, I don’t—”
BOBBY: That was kind of [17:30] by the way.
ALEX: Thanks.
BOBBY: Go off, king.
ALEX: Like, at least—
BOBBY: “The Final Piece of the Puzzle in my Masterpiece of Misery.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That’s our— that’s our first two emo album titles. The Final Piece of the Puzzle and Masterpiece of Misery.
ALEX: I don’t know, man. I’m sure we will talk more about it this offseason? I feel for all
the folks who work for the A’s who are going to have to answer for the whims of one very rich man. Trevor does a really good job of sort of laying out where the blame in this scenario lies, and it’s very clear. But I don’t know, man. I just feel desensitized. And, you know, there’s talk about them playing in the Giants Stadium in the interim between the— the lease of the Coliseum being up and then opening the stadium in Las Vegas. There’s talk of them playing in their Triple-A stadium. I— I just don’t understand how this is not completely embarrassing, that this is what you’re doing to a Major League Baseball team. This is what you’re doing to an entire fan base and encouraging them to stick around. “Oh, hey, A’s fans, why don’t you just come over to Oracle and watch the A’s play there until they move?” I— I won’t. I mean,
I won’t because I live on the other side of the country. But I think many A’s fans feel like that is probably a slap in the face. And I have no interest in bending over backwards to support a team that has abandoned them. I just— I don’t— I don’t see it happening.
BOBBY: Yeah. They— so— hmm, let’s read one of Evan’s tweets. “Nothing was decided as to where the A’s play in 2025-2027.” Which is the period of time when the lease of— the current lease the Coliseum expires. But supposedly, they won’t be ready to move in— to move to Las Vegas and actually play there until 2020— the 2028 season, I guess. So having said that the possibilities include staying at the Oakland Coliseum going to Triple-A Sacramento stadium, among others. I don’t know. None of those seemed like bad options— or none of those seemed like good options. All of them seemed pretty bad. I— I— I would guess that they’re just gonna stay in the Coliseum for two extra years. But I— it would be cool if they were— if the city was like, “No. Good luck.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: “Go find a little league field to play on. We don’t care.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I think that that would be better, because then that would make— that would solidify— that— that would be like making the clown put on the clown suit, you know?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like, making them go play at a Triple-A stadium, making them play in a— in a— in— at Oracle, where there’s just Giants stuff all— up all over— all over the place. No home games, basically. Like—
ALEX: Especially given— I mean, there—
BOBBY: That’s [20:39]
ALEX: —there’s obviously like a— you know, a level of rivalry that exists between the A’s fans and Giants fans, and— but especially with the way that that has kind of come out in the last couple years, and Kaval, like, purposefully needling the Giants and Giants fans over, like, attendance—
BOBBY: Yeah. Their attendance.
ALEX: —and stuff, you know?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: I— I think it’s such— it’s so backwards that— the— the first time that I think many A’s fans are seeing the owner of the team talk is at a press conference where he announces the unfortunate move to Las Vegas. I just— if you want this to be your crowning moment in your ownership tenure, own it. Own it. Come out and say this is what you’re doing. This is why you’re doing it. You can’t have it both ways. I’m sorry.
BOBBY: Quote— John Fisher quote—
ALEX: Or may— or maybe you can.
BOBBY: “—I understand that it is an incredibly difficult day for Oakland fans and I just want to say we did everything we could to try to find a solution there and it was only the last couple years we started to turn our attention to another market.” “Everything we could.” That’s like me saying, “We did everything we could to cover international soccer on this podcast for the last five years. We did everything we could to talk about Supreme Court decisions of the 1910s.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Honestly, we did more than that.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: We did that more than the A’s tried to stay in Oakland.
ALEX: I just— that’s interest— did you consider paying more of your own money?
BOBBY: Did you consider finding a site that actually wasn’t a joke?—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Like, did you consider finding a site that made— made sense?
ALEX: Right. Did you consider not ripping off taxpayers to pay for your vanity project? Because maybe— maybe you did, maybe you did. In which case, this is all fair. Fair game.
John, I hear you.
BOBBY: I love that— that there was just never on the table. Just build on the Coliseum site. Like, that is just—
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: —so clearly the right answer. Like—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —from the very beginning. But he just got downtown ballpark pilled, like everybody in the world is. But for some reason, he didn’t come to his senses when he realized that that was never going to actually happen. Especially in Oakland, in California, like it’s much harder thing to just ram through, and this is what happened. This is what came of it. Sidenote— okay, final thing on this and then we can go to our interview with Trevor. I gotta say, I’m pretty disappointed that this is like not a bigger deal. Even if you don’t—
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Even if you don’t fault John Fisher. Like, even if you don’t come out and be like, “John Fisher Must Die.” To borrow a movie title from the 2000s.
ALEX: Unfortunately, I don’t think I can name this episode that.
BOBBY: We could if it was on the Patreon feed, though. We’re gonna be going crazy over there. How is this still not like a bigger story than, like, where Yamamoto is going to take meetings with? Like, I— I love him. I hope he comes to the Mets, but, like, this is the second time this has happened in the last 50 years.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s just—
ALEX: And— and the whole—
BOBBY: And then we’ll specifically pick on Tom Verducci because he wrote 11 articles about the pitch clock this year and zero articles about the Oakland Athletics moving from Oakland. But like, come on, this is the guy— this is the guy who’s been covering baseball longer than anyone in baseball media who is like one of the biggest baseball reporters. And he presents as a sideline reporter on the World Series, so he is meant to have some gravitas. And if all you did was read Tom Verducci’s columns and watch your team play, you literally would not know that the A’s are moving. Like, you lit— wouldn’t even know.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, he didn’t even write a column that was being like, “The A’s are moving. This is crazy. Here’s some historical context.” Not even like not faulting John Fisher or blaming it on Rob Manfred or whatever. He just straight up— just— it’s a stay away from me, bro.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Let’s not really touch that.
ALEX: That’s not— that’s not really my area. I like to write what I know.
BOBBY: I mean, it’s a real like Chad versus the Virgin situation because Ken Rosenthal is the other sideline reporter, or at least he was.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: He still is, right? He still does the Fox—
ALEX: Yeah. Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: —sideline reports during the World Series? And he’s— as far as huge national columnist with a platform, though, he’s— he’s been with it.
ALEX: Under no circumstances do you have to hand it to Ken Rosenthal, Bobby.
BOBBY: No. Sometimes you gotta handle it— hand it to Ken.
ALEX: Right. A broken clock is right twice a day as they say.
BOBBY: I’ve come around on Ken. I’m in.
ALEX: Yeah?
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah. He annoys me sometimes—
ALEX: It’s just—
BOBBY: —but I’ve come around.
ALEX: But, like, someone has to have the access to the journalism, right?
BOBBY: Well, we got some guys. We got some guys.
ALEX: I love the— the story that’s like kind of been floating out there, which is like, “Don’t worry. Oakland is going to be a top two candidate for eventual MLB expansion. Hang on. Hang on. You— so you’re telling me that maybe Oakland, down the road, might be a viable market for Major League Baseball when—
BOBBY: It’s so awesome.
ALEX: —over the last decade, the only thing we’ve heard out of Oakland A’s management is the market just isn’t right for a baseball team. It’s just not there.
BOBBY: It just is never ending proof that Rob literally cannot make anyone do anything.
ALEX: It’s just like— it’s just like—
BOBBY: He’s the most powerless, powerful man on planet Earth.
ALEX: It’s like how you— like in movies or TV shows or whatever, I guess in— in real life, too, you know, if you’re— if you and your friend are in some trouble, and you’re, like, gonna go— be, I don’t know, interviewed by cops or whatever, like you get your story straight ahead of time.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: You say, “Hey— hey, we should probably be on the same page about what happened that night and why it happened that way.
BOBBY: Yeah, bro. Just like us with the beer pong.
ALEX: Yeah, that—
BOBBY: When we got in trouble for throwing a college party. You were like, “All right. We’re only going to talk about these names that they already have.”
[laughter]
ALEX: Oh, my God. We did interview a— a recently retired baseball player on this podcast. I should— I should just reiterate, just in case folks have forgotten.
BOBBY: We did, and we’re gonna go to that right now. But before we do, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I’m Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[theme]
BOBBY: Okay. We’re finally doing it. After much clamoring, Trevor May is here on the pod. Trevor, hello, welcome. It’s nice to meet you.
TREVOR: It’s nice to be here. Thanks for having me, guys.
BOBBY: Trevor, my first question is, why are you retiring, man? You were— you were really good last year. What’s up?
TREVOR: I was good last year because I’m retiring, is the classic— is the big Poppy effect. Once you see the light at the end of the tunnel, suddenly you can— you can use all your energy, and nothing seems to— that whole like life or death, like if I don’t pitch good, then everyone will hate me situation, kind of just goes away.
BOBBY: Just like the— the Bradley Cooper movie, Limitless? Like you get that extra 1% of your ability when you know you’re retiring?
TREVOR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You unlock something— you unlock something and the— the fear—the fear kind of goes away a little bit. Not away but, you know, you know what I mean? But, yeah, it’s just— it’s just time, and honestly, pitching well was a big part of the reason that it kind of locked it in as opposed to making me think about it. Just a lot— the guys don’t get to do that. I— I just— I think there’s something to be said for just going on in your own terms. I— it’s something that I’ve always wanted.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: Since I was drafted, I knew there was going to be an end and that I was going to like— I like other things and I’ll always have liked other things as you can see in my camera. So I just wanted to start that. I just was ready to go, ready to start.
ALEX: Yeah. I mean, you have stayed busy since retirement. You’ve— you— I mean, you were busy before retirement, off the field. You were already streaming, creating content. And— and I mean, as you said, you have these other interests. You— you have a podcast that you’re doing right now, May Contain Action. You just launched a newsletter, the MayDay Report as well. I mean, I think most baseball players when they retire, would probably take a breath and say, “It’s a— all right. I can— I can put throw my feet up while I’m sitting on the couch.” I mean, what sort of— where does this sort of creative drive come from to really just want to, I don’t know, get out there and share your perspectives, talk to different people?
TREVOR: It’s always been there. Frankly, I’ve been doing this since— had baseball not taken over my life and like— been a real opportunity. Had I grown up maybe a little bit— or was born a little later, I might have just went for the YouTube route from high school. Like I could have—
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: —easily because it just lined up with a lot of the things that I used to do. I was the guy doing all the— putting together all the lip syncs for the class competitions, and I was always in class leadership and coming up with cool ideas for how we could, you know, do things. Like that’s just kind of how I’ve always been, so it just made sense that I would spend my free time doing these things. So— but yeah, I got— I got— anyone who knows me knows that like taking a breath or like going on a vacation and, like, say, hanging out on the beach, not my style. My style is getting some time to pursue the things that pop into my head. That’s my happy place. Yeah, of course, I burned myself out sometimes and I actually do need the rest. And there’s like— even today, I was like, “I probably should have slept more last night.” But I was, like, pumped to get up and— like, I wake up in the morning, like, fired up to get upstairs and it’s like dark out still, and that happens a lot. I just— I just sacrifice sleep for, I don’t
know, working on a newsletter, or writing an article, or just making a video, or,
I don’t know, downloading clips of pitches because I want to make a— like I’m working on a Josh Hader free agency breakdown right now. And I had to get a bunch of clips today, because I want to add a video with the article, so—
ALEX: Sac— sacrificing sleep to work on a newsletter, who can relate?
TREVOR: Yeah [30:55]
BOBBY: It’s—I was gonna say Trevor is gonna put us into shame—
TREVOR: What year is it, you know?
BOBBY: —because we— we’re sometime— times delinquent on our newsletters.
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: And Trevor’s like a professional athlete who’s like ready to rock first thing in the morning with the newsletter and the content.
TREVOR: Well, it’s simple [31:06] gotta be consistent with them or they’re— they aren’t successful. That’s what I would say, so—
BOBBY: That’s exactly right. I— I wanted to ask, have you had much time to really, like, sit down and reflect on your career or is it still kind of sinking in? Have you given yourself— though you’ve been creating content and doing YouTube and doing videos and stuff like that, have you given yourself the time to kind of reflect back on it or is that for next year when the game start and you’re not involved in the activity?
TREVOR: There is a certain level that I can’t do until the season starts, and then I’m not participating in that way. But I also think that that’s going to be— there’s going to be so much stuff to talk about that I’m just gonna get lost in that, and then I’m gonna forget that I even played, frankly. But, yeah, reflecting— this is reflecting kind of.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: It’s like informing the things that I’m doing now, and then I’m pursuing now was— those experiences. So now it’s I’m in, I’ll— I had the experiences and I learned, now it’s time to share. If that makes sense. So as I share, I— I then get to sort through— sort through things and— and think critically about things. Trust me, man, I did plenty of thinking about it during the season.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: And I knew it was in— pending, I knew it was coming. I knew since— I knew since opening day that that was probably it. It was like 98% and then—
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: —like 2% locked in during that may, I— I [32:28] so it’s just— I— I kind of knew and it’s— that’s— that’s kind of what happens. Like, everyone who says they’re retired, and I don’t know if you guys read the— the— the book. It’s probably not a very popular book to read at the moment now, but about the Astros run in ’17. And it was just about Beltran and when he knew.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: His— like, if you just know. You’re just like— you’re like, “Well, yup, I want to stay home with my kids, and I don’t want to go on this road trip.” And it just kind of happens. I don’t have kids, but I was just like, “I don’t want to go to [33:00]
BOBBY: You got a newsletter and a podcast, man. That’s your kids.
TREVOR: Yeah, I got— yeah, I got two cats. I wanna hang out with my cats. I don’t want to—
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: Mostly it was like, “I just want to go to spring training, because I don’t want to get the— I don’t want to do— I don’t want to go— I want to get going again.” But then when I got going, it was like— it’s still fun to play. I still love playing the game. It’s all the other stuff just started to overshadow. All the other stuff that you have to sacrifice, you know, time with your family, time with— time with your wife. You know, like, I just living out of a suitcase. I just don’t want to do it anymore.
ALEX: Yeah, I mean, I— I complete— I think there are a lot of fans, right, who maybe look at a— look at a player statline or something like that and they’re like, “Oh, well, like, why do you hang it up? He’s still got a couple— couple more years in him.” Right? And— and in a— in a certain sense, I think it kind of, you know, cast aside the— the fact that these are like humans, right, who like— who do get tired sometimes at the end of the day.
TREVOR: Right.
ALEX: Right? And— and, yeah, it’s a— it’s a career, but— but it’s not necessarily, you know, how you’re— you want to be defined for the rest of your life necessary—I mean, maybe it is for some players, right?
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: I also— I kind of love the idea that you said, you know, going out, having a good year solidified it for you. Whereas like a lot of people describe it as you have one good year and you’re like, “Oh, I could still— I could keep doing this, keep going.”
TREVOR: Keep going. Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: I get it. I get both sides.
BOBBY: But like for you, like the last feeling of— of still being good, still having a good season, still putting up a good line, not going out because, like— “Oh, I had to have shoulder surgery, and now I don’t feel like rehabbing anymore because I’m— I’m approaching my mid-30s.” Like that’s, I think, an interesting paradigm shift of a perspective. And I like that. I like hearing that. That’s cool.
TREVOR: Yeah, it was— it was— that’s a big part of it. I— I just— I— I just did not— not— not— no part of seeing yourself slowly deteriorate over time and then— and then a group of people tell you, “You’re just not good enough anymore.”
BOBBY: Right.
TREVOR: Didn’t feel like a good way to go out. There’s— and— and to be honest, when you were drafted, man, they just tell you, “You gotta get your 10 years. You— you gotta get your 10 years.” Everyone’s like, “You gotta get— you gotta get it.” I’m like, “Why?” They’re like, “Pension.” I’m like, “You get— well, it’s a pro-rata pension, you’re just getting quarters of year every time. What’s— what’s the difference between nine and 10?” They’re like, “What about 10 and five [35:07] I’m like, “That’s only if you play past 10 years. If you don’t put that [35:10] like there’s nothing— there’s nothing to be gained, really. And— and who knows how much, you know, what is, 220? Yeah, and it hasn’t changed. The pension hasn’t changed in 20 years, either. 200 or— like, it’s gone from like 210 to 220. Like, it’s not gonna be— in 30 years, I don’t even know what that’s gonna be worth. I can’t—
ALEX: Right.
TREVOR: [35:25] on that. And as you know, I wasn’t gonna, like, not work anyways. So like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: —what am I waiting for? And—
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: —I couldn’t answer that question anymore. It was just like— it was— it was just milking money as much as you could, and that’s just not how I want to live my life. So, yeah, it’ll hurt to know that I probably did leave some money on the table. Lots of guys did it. Mike [35:45] had a player option for $13 million . But 2 years after, he want to [35:50] he was like, “Nah.” “What?” He’s like, “Yeah, I’m good.” But he could have just gotten $13 million for free.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: [35:58] because he doesn’t have to perform, really. That’s just not who he was.
BOBBY: If he just opted in and just showed up. Yeah.
ALEX: Right.
TREVOR: He’s just like, “I’m not gonna do that because I’m not gonna be able to give you everything. I know I’m not going to be able to. I’m not going to be into it. And you don’t deserve that, I don’t deserve that. So, like, keep your money.” And then the— the Rockies were like, “Okay. Thank you.” So, yeah, sometimes some guys do that, and yeah, it’s not that— what everyone would do, but it’s what they would do, so—
BOBBY: It’s a really good thing the Rockies had that extra 13 million now. I’m sure they went and— put it in good places.
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, paying to get rid of Nolan Arenado.
TREVOR: Yeah. Well, they— they because— they got some of it, so that’s good. Right.
BOBBY: So Min—
TREVOR: Some of it— I mean, all of it. Yeah.
BOBBY: Minnesota, New York, Oakland, you were drafted by the Phillies, too. So I guess from each— from each stop of your Major League career, what were the— what were your favorite parts or your least favorite parts of living in those places, playing for those organizations? What stands out?
TREVOR: Hmm. Oh, that’s a good— there’s a lot of— both of those things. Well, I’ll start with the A’s. Let’s go backwards, then. First of all, the A’s, I liked the loyalty in that organization. Everyone there has been there for longer than I’ve been alive, mostly. Pretty much everybody. All— all the clubhouse staff, anyone who’s not in their late early 20s, has been there for decades. Head clubhouse guy on the— the way side has been there for 42 years. Mickey Morabito, the— the very famous traveling secretary, he’s been there for 38 years. Like, they’ve all been there forever. I mean, Kotsay played for ’em. All the coaching staff is either from Oakland or played for the A’s. Like— so it’s— it’s very, very, very close-knit in that way. And then you add in the security guards, and the ushers, and the hot dog guy, like they’re all— the guy that’s in the— in the— in the buster— or not the buster, not buster [37:44] he’s been in there for— like they’ve all— everyone’s been there for so long, so like you— that— that becomes apparent really quickly. And you know, security guards been there for 20 plus years, like all of them. So it was awesome to, like, pick people’s brains, have them tell you, because it’s just a storied franchise. So, like, what— what was it like to hang out with, you know, Jace [38:02] Mark— Mark McGwire, like what were they like? And it’s all— like, I got to hear all these cool stories. So that was one of my favorite parts. I’m sneaky— I’m so glad that I got to be on the home side of Coliseum for one year, because you just hear all this stuff, you know? And it’s just like an— it’s like one of those things you gotta experience, you gotta have, and you— I just wasn’t fancy. I didn’t really like— when I came to the Mets, they had everything I had possibly wanted [38:25] I’m just like, “I don’t use this stuff. I use my things and that’s it. And I can— I can manage.” And, yeah, there were days where I was like, “Man, I wish we had a few more things.” But it really was— was— was very unique. And, yeah, if you’re used to walking up and down stairs, you’re good. You’re— there’s a lot of stairs. A lot of stairs/ramps/both ramps and stairs in the same hallway, sometimes, which is very— very— very— very Coliseum. And then— and then we’ll go to New York. New York, the— the fan base there is just— it’s just like— it’s the— it’s the world stage. The big— it’s the big leagues. Like, it’s just the big leagues every day. You’re— you’re never—
BOBBY: Does it— does it really feel appreciably different? Because you hear that a lot.
TREVOR: Yeah. It does.
BOBBY: You hear that saying— phrase a lot, but—
TREVOR: It really does because things are bad— good, bad. Like, you can get used to it a little bit, but like you go play somewhere else where it’s not as, like, loud all the time—
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: —and then you come back, you’re like, “Oh, yeah, I forgot. Wow.” So I did get used to it a little bit to where I was— I enjoyed it when the— the boos or the non-boo. Like, whatever it was, it was— it was— it— it was— they were reacting to you no matter what you did and that was really— like you can internalize that, it’s really fun. The city feels be— awesome. One thing I will say that I hated about both Oakland and New York was the— the traffic to the field. When I was in San Francisco, I did drive over the bridge every day.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: And then there was just nine wrecks because nobody’s— there— nobody signaled on that bridge in the entire— entirety of its existence. And— and then, you know, driving from Long Island City to Flushing was awful. It’s just awful. Though, I think the last game, the last game I went to— our last playoff game, it took me an hour and 40 minutes and I was like—
ALEX: Oh, my God.
TREVOR: “—I hate this so much and I’m so glad that I don’t have to drive this [40:13]
ALEX: Yeah, that’s the same— that’s the same borough. Like, what are we doing here?
TREVOR: It’s the same place— what is it, six miles or something? It was awful.
BOBBY: Yeah. I was gonna say, like, four miles, yeah.
TREVOR: It was awful. And I think it was just like wreck after wreck. And then there was some huge event or— I don’t know, President Biden was in town— something crazy was happening, something insane, and then the Mets were in the playoffs. So, of course, it’s just like people have been tailgating since 4:00 a.m. So it was— it was— it was— but it was— it was fun. I just was like— I— that day, I remember being like, “If I never drive this ever again, I— it will be too soon.” And then I mean, but living in the city, you’re driving home every night and being like— see the Skyline and3 be like, “I live here. That’s crazy.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
TREVOR: Because I’m from a tiny town in Washington. Like, this is crazy. Who— who would have thought that I would be on a— a New York sports team? 12-year-old me would think this was cool as hell. And so I tried to have that thought as much as possible. And then Minnesota, it’s got a lot of both. Very close-knit, extremely loyal. One of the nicest groups of people in the planet is— is the Minneapolis area. It’s a beautiful city. I— very, very slept on, I think, if you like— you’re a coffee buff or like— you like microbreweries and breweries and stuff. They do— they do beer really well there. And Target Field is gorgeous. All the managers were gorgeous. It’s a— the— the organization, especially, you know, towards the end of my tenure there too, were— were [41:39] and Eric kind of got settled and— and then Rocco kind of— you know, he’s gonna be their guy until he doesn’t want to be their guy anymore, right? So when that all set—settled in, and things were kind of, like, pretty clear, they’re a world-class organization, they do good things. They’re always going to be— they’re always going to be in the hunt because that’s how they do things, too. So really well run, very, very open, honest. You ask questions to those guys up in the fifth floor, they’ll answer them for you as best— to the best of their ability. And I really appreciated that. And so then I probably had— that was probably the closest with any president or GM got— group would be probably Minnesota, and I really appreciated them for that. And then, again, they all— everyone there has worked there for 30 years and— and so I got to see them in my la— the last road trip. Second to last city we went to was Minneapolis. I got my last Major League save against the Twins. And that was the last team I needed to just— I got my last team— I struck out somebody on every team. Minnesota was the last one I needed.
BOBBY: Were you— were you gripping kind of tight, making sure you got a strike out on that one? You’re just like—
TREVOR: Oh, I got the first guy and the first— or no second guy was— it was Michael A. Taylor. So I’m like, “Thank God. Got him. We did it.”
BOBBY: Just— just pound in the zone and there was—
TREVOR: And [42:47] that, I wanted to strike out everyone— someone on every team and then I wanted to— I blew another one. I wanted to get— I gave up 60, I think it was 60 professional big league home runs, and I only gave up two— more than one to one guy and that happened this year. I—
BOBBY: Who’s the guy?
TREVOR: Oh, it was Luis Robert. And I was like— when he hit it, he was like, “You threw a slider again.” Oh, I— I knew when he hit it. I was like, “No.” I just thought about it. Like, I’d never given a second homer up to anybody. I lo— I learned my lesson and he got me.
BOBBY: That’s a stay away, man. He’s got—
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: —that light tower power.
TREVOR: “Don’t throw the slider at all. I— everyone thinks like, “Oh, yeah, he can’t— like, just get one thrown over and then”— no. “Just don’t ever throw it. Try fastballs and hope. Right. Don’t throw a slider.”
ALEX: Maybe a sweeper.
TREVOR: Maybe a sweeper, yeah.
ALEX: Is— is that a sort of common thing for players to have to sort of set these internal milestones that maybe mean, you know, nothing to the average fan, but for you is kind of like a feather you can put in your cap? Is that something that, that guys tend to do? Or did— did you feel like you were the only one who was kind of keeping track of these sorts of things in your head?
TREVOR: In my career, I have it on purpose because— being humble like, “I haven’t done anything. I haven’t done anything. I haven’t done anything.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
TREVOR: That’s another thing that players do. And I don’t know, when you get to the idea— like I didn’t make an all-star team. I— I was close once. If there was a second half all-star team, I would’ve made that, but— so I’ll put my— I’ll hang my hat on that. I just did it in the wrong half. But, you know, I didn’t make any all-star teams. I didn’t have all the other accolades, like winning a Gold Glove, no. You know, striking it— what was I going to be, reliever of the year? I wasn’t a closer ever. Like, you have to be a closer.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: And so any awards for me were— weren’t really going to happen, so you gotta— you gotta come up with them on your own. And then this being last year, I tried to focus on those. So, like, in the 500— my 500 Major League strikeout was Justin Turner. That’s sick. That’s awesome, because he doesn’t strikeout that much either. It was a terrible slider up and he— and he just like—
BOBBY: Back— back down on them.
TREVOR: Where it’s [44:45] no, it— it was like— he was like— he— he saw it [44:50] way up and then he realized right at the end, it was gonna break, so he just tried to, like, foul it off and it was still a little bit up, and he swung under it. Which you don’t want— you don’t want a slider to touch the opposite zone. So it was just one of those bad enough to get a swing.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: And I was like, “Oh, I didn’t expect that. Let’s go.” I got that. I— you know, I’d never gotten 20 saves before. I got that. I got an incentive on my last outing of the year. My only incentive was games finished. I had 49 game appearances, 35 games finished. I needed 35 game— I thought I was going— nowhere close. Especially after May, I was like, “There’s no way I’m getting this.” And then the team got behind me, they’re like, “Do more.” So if you go back and— there’s some photos online of— basically Brent Rooker meet me— would meet me, so after— because he was DH-ing all the time. So, like, I’m coming in after— slapping hands— I’m coming and slapped him on his hands, and he always has a number up like— he’s like, “Three, four, five.” And that’s how many games I need. So then we’d like— I put it up and we, like, touch the [45:46] and that’s what was going on. So, like, at the end, we’re, like, “One.” Boom. And then we just high five, at the end when I got it, which was really cool. So— but everyone was behind me. It’s all like— all the guys knew, I told the guys going into that trip, that— that it was set in stone, but like Shea knew from the very beg— he would sit in— on the plane, he always come back to my seat, sit down with me and [46:08] he’s like, “So, like, one more year, bro, just me and you. One more.” But he did guess, like I had, like, seven right? And I’m starting to close, because we don’t have anybody else. And— and everyone else is getting hurt, so—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
TREVOR: —he kept saying, he’s like, “Dude, you’re gonna end of the year with, like, a three.” And he said 25, and I’m like, “Dude, I— I— I don’t think there’s enough innings.” And he’s like, “Okay. Three.”
BOBBY: “That’s just math right there, brother. That’s just math.”
TREVOR: Yeah. “Okay. You’re gonna end with a three.” And then at the end, it was like a 328. He’s like, “What’d I say?” I was like, “You’re right, bro.”
BOBBY: “That’s enough.”
TREVOR: I— I— dude, he’s the man. He’s— he— he was always so pumped for me when everything happened, so shout-out to Shea [46:45] what a guy.
BOBBY: And so I imagine it must have been weird playing in Oakland in this year specifically, with everything going on with the team. Of course, your— your rant against A’s owner John Fisher was the inciting incident for people saying, “Okay, Trevor. It’s time for you to go on Tipping Pitches.” And—
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: —we’re happy to have you on to talk about your whole career and also talk about John Fisher and— and throw insults out, if we must. But before we do that, before we do that, I did want to ask, what did it— what did it feel like being on— on the field for the reverse boycott? Just for everything, the energy. Because we were at one of those games, Alex and I were for one of the reverse boycott games. And it was one of the, like, weirder, but life-affirming experiences that I’ve ever had as a baseball fan. And I’m not even the A’s fan here. Alex is the A’s fan on the pod. So I— I can’t even imagine what it was like to be on the field for that.
TREVOR: Yeah, it was— those are highlights of my— my career for sure. And I think— I got [47:41] both of them— both of them. One was against San Francisco and the other one was against the Rays. And the Rays went to— being, like, with their seventh win in a row. Like, I didn’t know— honestly, I didn’t know I was gonna close either. It just kind of— I wasn’t closing at the point— at that point. I think it was my first save of the year. So— and I just— for whatever reason, I just was like, “This is happening Like, this is just gonna ha— of course, it’s gonna happen. This is gonna happen.”
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: And that just carried me through. I obviously still walked a couple guys and made it— made it dicey, because I still wasn’t dialed in yet physically. But mentally, I just— I just, like, was supremely confident. And so— and then just taking in the crowd and just, like, living in the moment. I just was like, “Either way, this is gonna be something I want to— I want to remember.” Because, like I said, I knew it was over. So— and I’m so happy that I did that, because I’ll never forget it. And the people were so— and were so happy— I don’t— like, it was crazy. Every time we won a game— like we lost 104 games, like we know. But every time we won and I was walking and the fan— the fans there by the tunnel were so pumped every day. No matter how many people were at the games. And the high fives were all over the place. And they were also supportive. And they know how things are going. They know what’s going on, and they still found a way to really enjoy the game and show out. So they just— I— I mean, they set out— I think the fans set out to— to— to send a message and that message was sent. I know after the first one, they got belittled [49:10] a little bit by the commissioner, which I didn’t appreciate very much either. What’d he say? He said something like, “Congratulations on getting the league average percentage.”
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: Like—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
TREVOR: —you can’t— you can’t help, but can you?
BOBBY: He’s so petty. He just can’t stop himself.
TREVOR: You just don’t say that.
ALEX: Stepping on [49:26]
TREVOR: Yeah, just be— be like, “Good job, guys.” Like, you’re not— you’re not endorsing it. Don’t worry. No one thinks that. Jesus.”
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That’s that management side lawyer speak, Trevor. You know what that’s like.
TREVOR: It’s just— it’s just petty, is what it is. I don’t appreciate— I don’t— it’s just like— they— come on, man. They just want— they’re— there’s— they’re hurting. You know what I mean? Like—
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: —people are hurting. Just— can we just acknowledge that, please? Like, they’re not just doing this to make your life harder. They’re— they’re doing it because they’re not happy, because you’re taking something—
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: —from them. So I didn’t appreciate that. But I did appreciate the fans that day, and every day. And then there was— really quick, a little shout-out too, at the very— very end, the last, the home, like the Fan Appreciation Day, which I don’t think we actually had a Fan Appreciation Day in the way they usually do, which was weird. But there was a sign that said, it’s like, “Thank you, players and staff. Like, we know it’s not you.” Like that was the big sign. I was like—
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: “—You’re right. It isn’t.” And I like— I like gave one of these and walked over.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: And like, “We’re”— like— because we’re like, “Thank you. We appreciate it.” Because the young guys, I mean, honestly, they see the [50:31] stuff, and they just like—they couldn’t help but be like—
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: Like, I just want to be in the big leagues and like— like, have— like,
not have to worry about this, and I— I totally got them. I totally got it. And, you know, when I— if I were 22, I’d be like, “It’s just another thing to worry about.” But fortunately, I was able to pitch and play enough for everybody. So—
ALEX: What— I mean, so you— you— obviously, I mean, feel very, you know, kind of emboldened to talk about this stuff post-playing career. And— and I won’t— I won’t ask you to rehash the— the— the Fisher rant much as our fans might— might like that. But I— but I am kind of curious, I mean, in the last few years, starting with the— the pandemic negotiations, and then kind of going through the— the CBA negotiations and everything in between. It seems like there’s kind of been more of a willingness on the part of players to maybe either speak out about these— these kinds of riffs or— or point out differences between players and owners. I— I’m kind of curious, your take on that. I mean, have— has— have you seen players maybe feeling a little more willing to step out of line? I know that, like, historically, you know, you’re taught to put your head down and play, and don’t stick your nose into these things, right? The— he’s the guy who’s signing your checks. But I— I wonder how this sort of thing has played out in the locker room over the course of your career, I guess.
BOBBY: Yeah, because from our perspective, it feels like the gloves are off. Just like from the outside, it just feels—
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: —like the gloves have come off a little bit in the last few years in a way that they weren’t when we first started doing this show.
TREVOR: Well, I think that what we’re seeing— we’re seeing this everywhere, but people are— are taking hard looks at the incentives for— to continue putting up with stuff, right? And that’s happening everywhere. That’s not like, “Just look at what the Auto— Auto Union— Auto— Auto Workers Unions did— did.” And they— they had this master plan going behind the scenes for— like they’re planning this thing for— forever, because they were just tired of it. And people are just like, “This amount of money does not give you free rein to do whatever you want now because you’re paying me.” And there’s a— there is— of course not, because we’re human beings. Like, you know, people need to understand I’ve talked about this a lot, is that— because there’s the— here’s the argument I hear a lot. Like, you can’t complain because you have a high net— because you’re making a lot of money. I— I had to explain this to a teammate once because he had a genuine— he had a genuine— well, he wanted my genuine opinion on it, being part of the 1— he goes, “We can’t be mad at our owner because we’re part of the 1%.” I’m like, “We’re actually not because we don’t own anything.” Like, that’s the point. Technically, we might be in the 1— in the top 1%, but the one that is [53:15] said, it means people who own things versus people who do not own things. We’re—
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: —still salaried employees. If that person decided that we’re not worth that money anymore, we have zero money. Like there’s no— there’s no between, right? So the way these things work, what we saw in the— the lockout, and we saw in COVID, and we saw in— with the rule changes now. It’s a lot of like, “Oh, this is what we want.” And then the actions don’t line up with those words. They— what they actually want is to get what they want, And there’s very little consideration about what we want/need. So I— I just had to explain like, “We’re salaried employees. Our system is a closed free market system. Meaning, like, we have to yell at each other for this to work. That’s the point.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: “Or if we didn’t, they would be still billionaires, and we would be hundred thousand-naires.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: Like, if we didn’t do anything, that’s what it would be. And they would just do that, then they would try to lower it forever. And if we just said, “Okay.” Then they would just keep getting lower, or stay as we see in pretty much every other industry. So, like, that’s just the way it is. That’s how it works. That’s the incentive. So— but once you stop being— once money stops being your— the major fire under your butt, then they can’t count on that as much. That’s when the gloves come off a little bit. I think there’s more guys that are willing to— to— to talk about those things publicly because they have enough money, or to—to be okay. And I— I count myself as one of those per— people. And I totally understand why other guys aren’t.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: And— or maybe it’s a lack of understanding, too. There’s like a thing— like they don’t really know. Like young— young guys don’t really know actually how it’s gonna work. Like a lot of people are like, “I don’t even know what ARB is.” Like, I get that. I didn’t— I wasn’t quite clear on ARB until I got to it, either.
BOBBY: I think that might be the point.
TREVOR: Yeah, that— that’s kind of the— that’s kind of the point. So to keep— yeah, to keep you uninformed, so you don’t know like— so you’re just kind of taking it one step at a time, because you’re trying to stab yourself. And I understand it, and that’s going to be advantage ownership every night— 10 out of 10 times, every time.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: So, yeah, it— it’s— I— I hope, though. I— I really do see like— you know, hopefully, you know, when Max is not there to— to lead the flying V of the— the PA or that there’s another younger guy who will take those reins and do the same type thing. So Max just doesn’t put up with it. Like, he was just— he was the reason that lockout even got the word it did, [55:38] because people were terrified of him in going against what he said. And he’s right, and I was with him. And we got— we got a little bit surprised by how the thing ended, we, being me and him. Other people might have known, but I— I didn’t. I thought that was gonna get voted down 100%, it didn’t. And then that’s just the way it is. So hopefully, though, more— more and more of these things get pushed back on— just— and pushing back, it’s healthy. It’s the way it’s supposed to be. It’s not— it’s not like, “Ooh, we hate these people.” Or, “Ooh, we hate Rob.” Like, it’s just like the nature of our relationship is to have friction so that we can come to a con— come to— to— to agreements and not just let one side who has the leverage and is the employer, because they’re always going to have leverage, always. They will take that leverage, because the nature of business is to get value out of your employees, that— that gives you more value than you give them. That’s how it— that’s how it works. You’re supposed to do that.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: [56:37]
BOBBY: They’re not actually— they’re not actually doing anything. They’re not actually creating.
TREVOR: Yeah, but like—
BOBBY: They’re not actually playing.
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: They’re just there.
TREVOR: They’re providing the means to create is—
BOBBY: Yes. So—
TREVOR: —that’s the argument and you think we could go down that rabbit hole, but— which we— which we won’t.
BOBBY: I have like 50,000 questions based on what you just said, but I’m going to keep it to two.
TREVOR: Okay.
BOBBY: The two questions that I have are, what— what was your involvement with the PA? Were you— like, were you involved in bargaining? Were you a player rep for any of the teams that you were on? Is number one. And number two, so when the lockout wrapped up, that— Rob Manfred did his whole press tour where he was like— he called up some reporters, he called up Tony. He called up all these people, and he was like, “I feel bad about how much animosity there is and I want to— I want to make sure that this doesn’t happen again. And I— I came in at a weird time for labor relations because of the mid-2010s and because of the contraction of TV rights.” And all this bullshit that he said. So do— do you think that anything has materially changed or do you think that that was just kind of suppressed cycle?
TREVOR: Suppressed cycle? We operate in [57:33] cycles. It’s the only way to get anything— any sort of acknowledgement or movement on from the— from the— the office down in Manhattan, is PR. It has to be a part— a PR issue. Nothing happened for sticky stuff until Chris Bassitt said, “I can’t grip the ball, and then we might hit people.” Oh, suddenly, someone was in the clubhouse that next day, they’d be like, “Hey, guys, what do you think about the balls?” Like, oh, surprise. Look— look who’s here. Like, you know, Morgan Sword, I mean, suddenly wanted to listen. So it’s just the— yeah, we get it. And— and then, of course, we played ball and we got the— everyone’s like, “Well, here’s— here’s some feedback that”— “Oh, we’ll take that in con”— “No, you won’t. You’re going to do whatever you want that’s going to make money.”
BOBBY: Morgan Sword is the name that more fans need to know, who that is.
TREVOR: He— he’s the next— he is the next commissioner.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: So know that. Dan Halem is not going to be the next commissioner. It’s going to be Morgan Sword, 100%. Now, that’s not based on anything. But, like— like, I don’t know that anything other than me guessing and just seeing how they— seeing how— seeing seen how they’ve spoken to people, listen to them speak to groups. I’m like, “Yeah, we know who that— we know the guy is going to be.” Or what he— what they’re training them to do. And— and again, it has nothing to do with the people as people, it’s just the nature of their jobs. But that is— it’s a— it’s a— it’s a public-facing, very large organization that has— is worth $11 plus billion a year. So you’re gonna get— you have to— you— you have to win the PR battle. That’s just how everything works now. So, yeah, that— that was lip service. Like, again, he said that stuff, he also gave everyone— what we dubbed them as Beats by Rob, so everyone got like Beats headphones and the whole— by the way, the box— they gave us a box. I’m just, “F it. I don’t care.” The box is this thick. We opened it up. There’s a tiny box inside of the big box. I’m like, “Ah! It’s Beats by Rob.” Everyone was like, “I need Beats.” I’m like, “Shut up. Don’t like the gift. You’re not supposed to like the gift.” We all wear them. We all use them.
ALEX: Right.
TREVOR: And there was like a little note in it written and it was just funny. This year, we got— we got though, we did get— we got YETI tumblers and they had, like, little speakers in the caps and—
BOBBY: That’s kind of funny.
TREVOR: The YETI tumbler.
BOBBY: That’s kind of [59:43]
TREVOR: Yeah, I do.
BOBBY: So it’s like I can be bought—
TREVOR: [59:46] and a garment bag, so I’m like, “Yeah, we got some stuff that’s actually like”— I was like, “Yeah, we”— but again, you’re like, “You’re trying to buy us off. I’m gonna take this, but I’m gonna be mad about it.” We did get a— we got a gift also from— from John this year too, but that not quite as good.
BOBBY: Oh.
TREVOR: A lot of people don’t know that, either. No one that actually knows that. I don’t think that was reported on.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: Oh, breaking news here.
TREVOR: Yeah. But yeah, we got cowboy boots.
BOBBY: That’s pretty good.
TREVOR: Okay. No, they’re not.
BOBBY: All right.
TREVOR: They were $100 cowboy boots.
BOBBY: Oh, my God.
ALEX: Oh, okay.
TREVOR: From a company that he owns.
ALEX: Oh, there’s— there it is. There it is.
TREVOR: Just so you know.
BOBBY: I’m just gonna leave— I’m not— I’m not gonna touch that. I’m just gonna let that eat.
TREVOR: There was— there was no— there was no note or anything. And it was around the time we got— it was around the time that it was announced the team was moving. So I think it was like a peace offering for us, but there was no— there was no communication. It was just showed up. And they’re not— in my— like, some guys were like, “Cool.” And I was like, “These are not wearable.” I’m just— I don’t care. They’re made of canvas. They didn’t fit.
BOBBY: Jesus [60:47]
TREVOR: They were, for some reason, wide-sized. I don’t have wide feet. I don’t know why that— like, that’s not his fault. That’s not his fault. That— that is [1:00:54]
BOBBY: No, no, it’s his fault. It’s his fault. Basically, anything bad that happens on this podcast, we attribute it specifically to owners by name.
TREVOR: But it didn’t feel very thoughtful, if that makes sense.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: [1:01:04]
BOBBY: He should’ve went with the $100 Chili’s gift card or something. It would’ve [1:01:06]
TREVOR: I would have taken the $100—
BOBBY: —molt—molten lava cake, you know?
TREVOR: I would have taken— I would have taken $70 in cash [1:01:12] but, you know, it— it— it just— what what struck me was, I’m like, “I don’t think anyone thought about this. They just did it.” Like, no one’s thinking critically about like, “What does this say? Is this a thoughtful thing and do these, like”— just don’t get anything. Like, we were kind of— most people didn’t care. I’m the one— I was walking around with them all day in the clubhouse. Like, I almost wore him out to stretch, but I thought that’d be too much. See, I— I was always very close to this thing, like really going— and I just— I held my tongue, I tried— I really tried not to make a scene. Because it’s not fair to anybody. It’s not fair to them. The [1:01:44]
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: —to the people. Really not fair to the social media group.
ALEX: Like, right.
TREVOR: If I’m just constantly putting them in tough spots. I really didn’t want to do that. And that was— because I liked them. I liked everybody there. So— but, yeah, that was— that was a— that was a silly day. I still have them, I kept them. They’re probably gonna go on a shelf behind me at some point, I think.
BOBBY: Frame them, you know?
TREVOR: Maybe. They’re huge.
BOBBY: So— so were you a player rep for— for the Mets?
TREVOR: Oh, player rep, sorry, your question.
BOBBY: No, no, no, no, no. That was all great. I asked the harder question second, so your mind slipped— slipped on that.
TREVOR: [1:02:14] no, I— I— I was never the— I was always an alternate. I did some, like, just general, like, part of the big group, but I wasn’t part of bargaining. But the only reason I wasn’t a rep was because when I joined the Mets, they had Nimmo already, and he’s gonna be the rep—
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: —probably for his whole career— or his whole thing. He wants to do it, so I’m like, “All right. Go— go for it.” And then we had Lindor on the subcommittee, and then Max on the subcommittee, like we have enough Mets in the room. There’s a [1:02:45]
BOBBY: There was— there was— there was an underlying narrative—
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: —that I— I saw bubbling up, that there was kind of like a lot of Mets representation, Yankee representation.
TREVOR: Like, they didn’t need me.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: They didn’t need me. And— and then Lindor kept me pretty well-appraised. I— he would always answer my questions, and we’ll go into that. And then with Oakland, there— there— it’s so funny, because there’s so much turnover, but the rep didn’t turn over was Kaprielian. And so I’m like, “You’re the rep. You want to keep going?”
BOBBY: Oh.
TREVOR: He’s like, “Sure.” He’s like, ” Yeah, I actually do want to do it.” Like he wanted to be part of it. So, like, everywhere I went, I was like, “I’ll do it.” And they’re like, “No, I actually like doing. I want to do it.” I’m like, “All right. I’ll be around. Just let me know if you need me to take anything— pick anything up.” And then I think when I was with the Twins, like it just— Taylor Rogers got it— oh, Taylor Rogers became the rep when I had Tommy John. And then he was there the whole time. So I was like, “Hey, you need to help?” He goes, “I’ll do it again.” I’m like, “All right.” But I— you know, I was— I participated in the conversations. I was always in the front row and, you know, by Tony, talking to him. Me and— and he just— I just— I just complained to [1:03:50] all— all day. He loved it. He loved listening to me rant. So if you could imagine, I can rant. Yeah, I was— I was pretty— I followed it very closely, though. I was pretty well-informed.
ALEX: Were— I mean, were you surprised that guys were— were, like, really actively excited about— about doing this? Maybe not surprised, but did that— does that feel like a shift at all, I mean, where— where maybe it— at one point felt like kind of a chore to do? Now, there’s something to— to really sort of rally around. Or do you— or do you feel like it’s kind of always been the case where guys are ready to— to, like, you know, to get their hands dirty in this?
TREVOR: Yeah. I think that— eh, maybe a little both. It just depends on the team. There’s some teams that are just like— they’re like, “We don’t have any power.” “Oh. Just tell us what we’re doing, right?” There’s a lot of those, actually.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
TREVOR: And, yeah, he’s one of them, probably. So it’s— it’s— I think the guys are becoming more informed and they’re being— like we said, they’re being a little bit more vocal. And then I think the fear of like, “Am I going to get to 10— like— like the whole I don’t want to rock the boat for very long because I want to be able to get my— get— get the— the opportunity—
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: —where I need to get to. And then that’s kind of not so incentivized anymore. So guys are just like, “I’m more open to just being honest here and— and kind of going in. Because it’s— it’s a good thing long-term.” Like, I was fired up about the lockout a lot and people were like, “Why are you so fired up, man? You’re like— none of this affects you.” I’m like, “Yeah, but I still care about the guys who are— is gonna affect. Why is it so weird that I’m thinking about other guys after me? Like, why is that so”— they— it literally was weird to people. They were like, “Why do you care so much? It’s not about you.” I’m like, “Some people don’t— aren’t always thinking about only themselves all the time. I don’t know what—
ALEX: Is that— is—
TREVOR: —it became the normal thing to do.
ALEX: Is that— is that— that was a response you were getting kind of from the general public [1:05:43]
TREVOR: Yeah, general public. People were just like, “Dude, you’re super— you’re super fired up about this and it’s— you don’t have any skin.” I’m like, “I have some skin in the game, but yeah, like the, you know, arbitration pool is not gonna affect me. But, yeah, we want it to be bigger than smaller. We want to meet in the middle sometimes. We want to— not just like— it’s not okay that claims are made that, like, people— teams are losing money and that it’s hard to make money. And then zero proofs is— is offered and then you’re like, “Hey, okay, cool. Show me.” They’re like, “Nah. No. Like, this dynamic isn’t okay, us doing this is not— you’re saying that and then not— and then doing what you’re doing, it’s just not okay.
Like, we’re adults. I thought we were adults. This feels like I’m at— in middle school.” And so it’s just like— that stuff is important to notice, and I was like trying to show you guys, this is what happens. This is— it’s gonna feel silly. Go through ARB— go through an ARB hearing and just feel how stupid you feel. Like, what are we talking about? And— and the guy is, like, asleep that’s about to make the decision, about your life. And you’re just like—”
BOBBY: I don’t know if you know Jerry Blevins at all, or if you guys have crossed paths at all?
TREVOR: Oh, I know— yeah, I know Jerry.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: Okay.
BOBBY: He— he came on our pod during the lockout. We did a series called CBA ABCs and we did—
TREVOR: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: We, like, focused on one part of, like, the contract negotiation that would— was contentious during the lockout. And he came on for arbitration, and just kind of explained what his ARB was like. He was like, “I was proud to be in ARB, but then I was sitting across from people who didn’t know what baseball was.” And I think that that hit home—
TREVOR: Oh.
BOBBY: —for a lot of people that that was like, “This is who we’re trying to make this case to in an era of where the world knows so much more about baseball.” And you can’t even— you can’t like bring TrackMan into ARB. They would look at you like you had 10 heads.
TREVOR: People are trying.
BOBBY: I know. I know.
TREVOR: It— it’s funny. There’s suddenly— when— when— when they can use TrackMan against you, they suddenly know everything.
BOBBY: And they’re really happy about it. Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: Convenience. It’s insane. Mine was all— I almost went to ARB over— I think it was $5,000, for the principal. We were both gonna lose money. I was like, “I’m gonna take you guys because— because you’re annoying.”
ALEX: Right.
TREVOR: “You’re annoying me. Because I’m a reliever and we’re going for $2 million. Like, come on. Like, I don’t make any money.” I— I— at that point, I’m like, “I’ve never made a million and I’m in— I’m in my sixth year, this is ridiculous.” Just— and they were just like, “Well, we can’t give you that big of a raise.” I’m like, “I thought we were talking about total money. Like, no, no, because you, it’s very convenient talking about raises.” Because with Tommy John in the first year, we’re gonna talk about raises. But for that guy—
BOBBY: It’s the percentage thing.
TREVOR: —we’re talking about total money.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: Right? Like, I couldn’t get the— my [01:08:04] like, you can’t get the raise that he got. I’m like, “Why?” “Because you had Tommy John, and you had— made 900 grand last year, so that’d be too big of a raise.” And I’m like, “That’s dumb. It doesn’t make any sense. What— I thought it was total compensation, not how— versus what I made last year. What— since when it was that way we measured it?” “Right now, when it was super advantageous for us to talk about it.” And that’s—
BOBBY: In this very one specific moment.
TREVOR: In this very specific situation, it is awesome that this is happening. But other than that, we’re never gonna do this again. I’m like, “This is silly.” And the ARB guidelines are set up to let that happen.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: You just do this, or this.
BOBBY: Oh, I’m just kind of shrugging and letting the process grind [1:08:48]
TREVOR: I just realized this is [1:08:49] probably I’m shrugging and throwing my hands in the air. “What? I don’t know.”
BOBBY: Man, I love talking about ARB. I just fucking love it. It’s so— because it just gets me going, you know? These Byzantine structures of collective bargaining agreements are my favorite. I wish— so the one thing that you said in there that I wish came preloaded onto every baseball fan’s brain and every baseball media reporter’s brain is the idea that, like, if the players don’t get it, then the owners get it, and there’s literally no other option. Because I think a lot of people who would say things to you like, “Why do you care? This doesn’t affect you.” Or whatever. Like they don’t understand that if— if you’re not getting the money, it’s not like going to society to do good in the world. It’s not like being donated to charitable [1:09:30]
ALEX: It’s not lowering ticket prices even.
BOBBY: Right, exactly.
TREVOR: Yeah, yeah. Like—
BOBBY: it’s like— it’s not going to the fans. It’s just— it’s going straight to the owners. Like, this is the only thing—
TREVOR: Them taking money in ARB is not lowering your— including your prices. Those are going up no matter what.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
TREVOR: And it’s not because— they’re not like, “Our salary is higher this year, guys. Our— our— our— our payroll is higher so we should raise the ticket prices.” They rose— the A’s raised those ticket prices, they were more expensive. It’s just— that’s market. And this is [1:09:55]
BOBBY: [1:09:55]
TREVOR: Exact— this is— this is just the way business is. And if I hear that one more time, “It was business at the end of the day.” It wasn’t for 90 years, really. It really— the game— until the ’70s, it wasn’t a huge business at all. Not even mid-80s, Like, really it wasn’t. And then it suddenly became one. And— and suddenly, that’s the [1:10:20] we used for every— every crappy decision made. It’s— it’s like, “Well, gotta make money, because that’s the only thing that matters.” I’m like, “If it just isn’t, actually, it’s not, you’re deciding to do that.” Well, then— you know, it’s a prime example, John’s comment yesterday, just like, “It’s harder on me than it is on you.” He said that to a fan. But—
BOBBY: Did he really say that yesterday? Wow. I’m off my game. I’m offline. I’m off my game.
TREVOR: He said that— so he got— he got— some— some guys got into the lobby at the hotel, and he got cornered. And he— he walked over to them. He’s like, “I gotta— like, they’re there. Like, I can’t— this will be really bad if I ignore them.” He’s not stu— like he’s been media trained.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: Not— not speaking, but being me— he’s been media trained. That’s what happens when you grow up like that, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: So he knows— like, I— it’d be— it’d be good PR if I went over there and did this.” But as he was leaving, he was like, “I just want you guys to know that, like, it’s harder on me than it is on you guys.” And I think he was trying to be like, personable, but in reality, just belittle— he just downplayed their pain. And— and so he’s like, “One more question.” He goes, “There’s never just one more question. I gotta go.” And then walked away. Which he’s right, there’s never just one more question. But they were like— they wanted to ask him if there’s any way to get— if— if there was any path forward. And he was gonna say no, probably, he didn’t want to. There— it could be if they really wanted to. He doesn’t want to. And that’s very clear. He doesn’t want to.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: But that comment, that comment is— is an entitled comment. He thinks he’s entitled to this. He thinks he deserves it.
BOBBY: Right. Like, he makes the hard decision and he does the thing that hurts everybody, but he also gets to feel like he’s hurt too, you know? Like, “Don’t yell at me.”
TREVOR: Like— like, “Guys, I have to do this, because that’s what business is.” Like— and it’s— no. No, you don’t and no, it isn’t. Like, no, sorry. Like, no. Like, you’re choosing— this is a choice and you’re making it. So own it. Own your choice. Don’t act like you are a slave to the market forces you’re in. you— you own—
BOBBY: Right. The invisible hand is just forcing you to Las Vegas.
TREVOR: Yeah. No one is forcing you to— and he had some— it’s trying to build the value of the team. It’s not that— it’s not that complicated, and it’s not that sneaky. Like, it’s pretty clear. Don’t be surprised if he’s not the owner much longer past the move, and it’s just an extra $500 million of value he’s getting immediately. And then we’ll just see what else he tries to go do, right? That’s just the way it is. And I just— I— I— all I can do is guess, because there’s no way to know, because he just refuses to get in front of a camera ever. But which is a whole another thing. But like you just— who knows what he was told when he was 12? Like, what is— what the— what the— what the purpose of life was. Like, who knows?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Right.
TREVOR: Maybe making money is all he thinks there is. Maybe living up to the name is all there is. I don’t know.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: I— and I don’t blame him, because— like I just went through a bunch of stuff, a bunch of things in my head that I used to tell myself that it just wasn’t true. And so I had this— I’m going through this stuff as well all the time. And other people— everyone does. And I’m doing the work. It’s like— it’s like, “Okay. Yes. If any of this is going on, could you just like notice,
catch it, and maybe do something else, and have some courage about it?” Or stick by your decision and own it, and then be like, “Hey, I”— and then acknowledge the people that you’re hurting, because you are. They’ve told you that. You can’t deny that. And the only— I feel like the only reason to not get up and defend something or— or talk through something is— because you know it’s indefensible. Or you— or he’s like, “They won’t understand. That’s because it’s indefensible, not because it’s this unique thing that only you know about. It’s because it’s not indefensible, because it’s not very— because it benefits you and only you.” And that’s not cool, not— not a great thing. And— and— and when you live in a society of people, sometimes you got to think about another person. But that’s just my perspective. I just— I didn’t— I— I feel for the people because I know a lot of these people who are going to be adversely affected personally. And I feel for them. I— I— I like them as people. I think they deserve better. Or they deserve at least one of these, like little, “Hey, thank you.”
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: At least that. That’s still probably pissed them off, but— and it— as it should. But at least, it’s— some eye contact. Or maybe they just want a little bit eye contact. That’s all they want. That’s all people want, we’re humans. Or—
ALEX: Or cowboy boots. That’s the other option.
TREVOR: Or, you know, you could try cowboy boots. Good luck with that, though.
BOBBY: Just give it a shot, you know? Just— just spitball in here.
TREVOR: Maybe— maybe— maybe different ones, though.
BOBBY: Trevor, can we close with a handful of rapid fire questions—
TREVOR: Sure.
BOBBY: —that we got from our listeners? Alex, you want to start us off?
ALEX: Yeah, let’s do it. This first one comes from Nick. He wants to know, “Which pitcher in Major League baseball history would you be most interested in seeing their TrackMan data?”
TREVOR: Oh. You know who has a good one? Who I think has— had crazy ride was Jack Morris.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: Hmm, I bet you he was like just— just 21 and that— and that— and then the fourth ball right after it, that’s why that was so good, man. It was the exact opposite. So— but I wouldn’t be surprised the fourth ball didn’t drop as much we thought. It’s just fastball just carried so much that it seemed like— it seemed like [1:15:34]
BOBBY: [1:15:35] random.
TREVOR: Yeah, crazy. So it would have been awesome to see his— carry on his fastball. And I bet you the other way, but Nolan Ryan’s movement stuff. Pretty average.
ALEX: Right.
TREVOR: [1:15:48] I think he threw really hard— I think he threw really, really hard but movement-wise— I’ve seen video— I’m just like— I think that’s just like— I don’t wanna call it dead zone stuff, but like— but then again, it’s— go— I— just so— just for context, go look at Jake deGrom’s movement in a— in a vacuum, none of its elite.
BOBBY: Yeah. Yeah.
TREVOR: It’s just— they’re— they’re very, very, very good friends with each other, and that’s why they’re so good. And it’s probably the same thing with Nol— with Nolan. Very similar kind of [1:16:17] and stuff, but in terms of— so, yeah, those two guys. I would love to see Jack Morris’ [1:16:21] that’d be my—
BOBBY: My answer for this is always the Gibson slider. I just need just the— the Gibson slider.
TREVOR: Oh, yeah, the Gibson slider.
BOBBY: Because that’s— that’s like the cheat code. That’s like the [1:16:28] answer. I
like the [1:16:29]
TREVOR: Brad Ligde’s slider would’ve been cool.
BOBBY: “Lights Out” Lidge.
TREVOR: He’s got a great gyro. The classic gyro. Like, the 85-mile curveball [1:16:38]
BOBBY: How about— this comes from Dawson. “The wildest bullpen conversation or argument you ever heard?”
TREVOR: Oh, my God.
BOBBY: That you can— that is safe for air without exposing anybody.
TREVOR: I— the wildest?
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: Oh. Oh, I don’t even know. I mean, I played with Sergio Romo, man. Like we talked about some stuff. There’s been days where I had no idea what’s going on in the game for a while, because we were just like—
BOBBY: Like day— like days when you knew you weren’t gonna pitch or— or even days when you might be called off—
TREVOR: Or— or like— or, like, the game— like we scored seven in the first and it was 7-0, and I’m like, “Well, I’m probably not gonna— so I— I can just, like, chill to the fifth.” Like— or whatever, we’re way behind, so— so— and then we just saw the [1:17:21] guys were like, arguing over something. I’m trying to think of something specific. Someone— who— who had just a dumb take that we just destroyed this year? All right, let me— let me think about it. We got to go to the next one. I— I gotta—
BOBBY: All right. Okay.
ALEX: Okay. All right. Well, this— this— this next one is another one where you can maybe gas up your teammates a little bit. Owen wants to know, “Who were your favorite teammates that you played with over the course of your career?”
TREVOR: Ooh, favorite teammates. I got a lot of really good ones. So my original bullpen mentor was Kevin Jepsen. So Jeppe was one of my— one of my— he was a big like, “Guys, we’re relievers. What we do is we complain. That’s what our job is, and we’re— you’re— you’re gonna do that well.” And he was a master, at just being like— like Jeppe— he’s like, “No. Why?” Like he’s that guy. And we all go, “Yeah. Listen to Jeppe.” Matt [1:18:16] another great guy for learning how to play the game. Wasn’t a teammate, was a bullpen coach, but I’m like— I got throw out Eddie Guardado. His stories are incredible. And then good buddies like Tyler Duffey and Tyler— Taylor Rogers were my guys, so we were like Trevor, Taylor, and Tyler in the bullpen, and we grew up to— grew up through the game and— and that was— it’s awesome to see Taylor’s success and— and Tyler is— Tyler is just hanging on and still playing, too. So we’ve all played for a while. And Romo’s up there, he’s one of my favorites. Tommy Milone was a great teammate, who came to my wedding. Love that guy. This year, I— I had some— like Shea was awesome to— to have as a battery mate. Loved— loved Nido. Love— love Pete Alonso, man. He’s one of— he’s like one of my favorite teammates ever. He’s one of the most genuinely nice people, like, on the planet. I’ve—
BOBBY: Everybody says that about him, that he’s just like the biggest sweetheart.
TREVOR: He’s so goofy. He’s such a goof—
BOBBY: [1:19:18]
TREVOR: [1:19:18] he’s just a goofy dude and he does—
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: —goofy stuff. And he went to Florida and he like— he like— he’s very [1:19:25] and likes to talk about it a lot. Everyone’s got a nickname and he’s— he’s— you know, but he’s just so like— he’s just a goober, so like it’s hard to take him seriously when he’s, like, trying to hype people up. And that’s [1:19:33]
BOBBY: I’ve been led to believe that— I’ve been led to believe that Pete has good music taste. Like he’s in, like, the pop punk, like indie rock genre. Is that true?
TREVOR: Yeah. So— so am I. So—
BOBBY: Okay. So that’s— the next question—
TREVOR: [1:19:41]
BOBBY: —I had for you was, if you have the aux cord, what are we listening to in the clubhouse?
TREVOR: Ooh. So I’m a— I’m a electronic guy. A lot of people know that, so it’s like— this last year, it was— it was— it was pretty much just straight up pop punk, 2000s, ’90s pop punk, and then—
BOBBY: And it’s all just [1:19:58]
TREVOR: —drum and bass. Just like drum and bass made a comeback this year, and I was just playing— and they were like, “What are we”— I’m like, “Don’t worry about it.” Because it was that or— or— or Tony Kemp just— it’s just— it’s just Drake, 21 Savage, Drake, 21 Savage, Drake, 21 Savage. And I’m like, “Guys, anyone else?” I— my— my— my— this— my pet peeve all year was explaining to everyone that, they didn’t know this, but 21 Savage is actually trash and they don’t know that. And so— and then I would, like, break down songs like, “Listen to these lyrics and he just— is monotone.” And they’re like, “But it’s like the vibe.” I’m like, “I got nothing. Like—”
ALEX: You can’t argue with that.
TREVOR: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we got— we got Gelof and Soderstrom walking around just [1:20:43] all’s it is, just 21 and— and I was just like, “All right. Dude, I don’t get it. I”— But then again I didn’t like hip-hop that much when I was their age either. I was still electronic music.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: I was just being— I was just being an old head on purpose.
BOBBY: Well, I gotta dig though, what— what’s like your pop punk zone? Like, what’s your sort of Holy Trinity of pop punk bands?
ALEX: Do you have like a— a ride or die?
TREVOR: Ride or die—
BOBBY: Yeah. Like— are you, like, more like Fall Out Boy, Paramore era or are you more like—
TREVOR: Okay. Anyone who doesn’t say Paramore is—
BOBBY: That’s right.
TREVOR: —crazy.
BOBBY: That’s right.
TREVOR: They’re just amazing. Red Jumpsuit.
BOBBY: Nice.
ALEX: Cool.
TREVOR: Those are my karaoke songs.
ALEX: Yes.
TREVOR: Guardian Angel and— what’s that song? The other one.
BOBBY: Face down?
TREVOR: Face down. Yes. Face down. Those are my two—
BOBBY: Alex did that on karaoke a couple months ago.
ALEX: I did that on karaoke.
BOBBY: Kind of a downer of a song, though.
TREVOR: It is a downer song.
ALEX: Right. And you’re singing the lyrics and I’m like, “Oh, my God. This is— this is some heavy stuff for— for [1:21:33]
TREVOR: Your Guardian Angel is pretty good.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: When it takes off there at the end. Yeah, Fall Out Boy. Even like kind of the pop— the later stuff like Panic! and 3OH!3 and— I like those guys at the very end. I mean, Panic! still, I think, makes music every now— and I’ve also played Fortnite with Brendon Urie, which is weird.
BOBBY: Wow.
TREVOR: Random. One time. And I was like, “Wait, is that Brendon, like, from Panic! At The Disco [1:22:00] What? That’s crazy.” And then Dead Mouse joined. I was like, “I don’t know— I don’t know what to do. I shouldn’t have— I’m not gonna talk— I’m not gonna talk, they’re so famous.” I like talking too, so it was tough for me. There’s another one. There’s one I’m missing, that I loved. Crap [1:22:17]
ALEX: Blink or like [1:22:22]
TREVOR: I mean, we— I love Blink a lot, Offspring.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: Yeah. Well, Blink— Blink is a very easy one. Yeah. All of them. I like them all.
ALEX: This next question comes from Alex, who wants to know, “Which one pitch would you want to steal?” And— and our little addendum to that is— is a pitch from history that you’d want to steal and then maybe a pitch from present day baseball.
TREVOR: I’ll take Duran’s blinker as my fastball.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: That’d be nice. I’ll take—
ALEX: Sick.
TREVOR: —deGrom’s four-seam fastball. I’ll take— I’ll take [1:22:59] because—
BOBBY: Oh, it’s so beautiful.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: It just makes professional hitters look so bad.
TREVOR: But in reality, with— with my stuff and how I— well, okay. So either [1:23:10] can be my changeup or Brash’s slider. Yeah, Brash’s slider is just— I don’t understand how it’s physically possible that he can do that. But every single hitter I’ve talked to is like— I mean, who’s the nastiest guy in the league? Brash— Brash is— it’s Brash. Frat Matt Brash. And the only way you can hit him is if he throws a fastball. If he throws a slider, you’re out. It’s just— and you got to hope he try— he gets behind those fastball. He still throws a 98, so it’s not like it’s easy, but they’re, like, really trying to trick him into throwing one fastball and just not be— that’s why they got such bad swings with sliders, because guys are just sitting on [1:23:44]
ALEX: Right.
TREVOR: But, yeah, Brash’s slider is the top probably right now.
BOBBY: Well, Trevor, you’ve been so generous with your time and we really appreciate it. It’s been really fun talking to you about everything far and wide, pop punk, John Fisher, cowboy boots, the MLBPA Arbitration. Thank you so much for joining us. We— we really—
TREVOR: Of course.
BOBBY: appreciate it. Is there anything that you want to plug specifically by name that we haven’t already talked about, the newsletter, the pod, the streaming, all of it?
TREVOR: Please sign up for the newsletter, and the YouTube channel is getting a lot of videos coming up. Tons of stuff in the works. It’s gonna get regular stuff. So that’s Trevor May Baseball on You— on YouTube. And you want to subscribe to the— we’re— I’m having the hardest time ever getting stuff on my website, so just on Twitter, it’s my pin tweet. That’s the— that’s the— that’s the link for the— for the subscribing to the newsletter. That is the best way to do it at the moment. But eventually, IamTrevorMay, we’ll have it there, too. So if you’re listening to this in three months, check it there.
ALEX: Thanks so much, man.
TREVOR: Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER 4: Are you feeling me? ‘Cause I’m feeling tip-top with you keeping me wide
BOBBY: Thank you to Trevor May. Thank you to everybody for listening. And thank you especially to everybody who signed up for the Patreon this past week. A bit of a big week for the Patreon, obviously, because we restructured how it works, and there will be bonus episodes, which we alluded to a little bit in the first 30 minutes of this show. I told people that I would try not to do the full spiel every time, but I’ll do the brief spiel, which is that if you sign up at the top tier of our Patreon, you get two bonus episodes per month. This every other Thursday, they will be coming out. In addition— in support of our normal weekly Monday episodes. So thank you to our new patrons, that includes Elvis Cade, Brandon, Stephen, G-Mac, Patrick, Ryan, Brian. Ryan and Brian, back-to-back. Love it. Josh, Andrew, Peter, and Sam. If you would like to become one of those patrons and get bonus episodes, we have one live, we have more in the hopper. That’s patreon.com/tippingpitches. Three different tiers, the top tier gets two extra episodes. Every tier gets you access to our Slack, which is a really fun place to be and hang out, and spend time with members in the community and make friends. It’s hard to make friends these days, Alex, you know? You need more opportunities, more avenues for friendship.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And the middle tier, you know, it gets you a newsletter, which it’s Alex Bazeley’s turn to write the newsletter right now.
ALEX: It is— it is my turn, and I don’t— maybe I’ll work some— through some of these thoughts about the A’s on their—
BOBBY: Start— start cooking, bro.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Start whipping it up.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: That four-hour monopod, just put that into the newsletter form. You can write a little novella. Graphic novel about John Fisher—
ALEX: Ooh.
BOBBY: —when?
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Many people are wondering.
ALEX: Intrigued.
BOBBY: We also have some holiday cards coming for our— handwritten holiday cards coming for our top members. It’s a lot— there’s a lot going on the Patreon. Go check that out. Next week on the pod, we will have an interview with one of our favorite bands in the world right now. They are called Pool Kids. Many of you will remember that about halfway through this season in June, Pool Kids sent a tweet out about how the— from their lead singer, her name is Christine Goodwyne. She went to high school with Pete Alonso and had English with him. And he would get so nervous before his speeches and his face would turn red, and his voice would shake. And then he was a really sweet guy. And when we saw that tweet, we were like, “Finally. Our excuse to talk to one of our favorite bands.” Which, otherwise, we would have no reason to talk to you on this baseball podcast. But we did it. We did it anyway. Because that’s our right.
ALEX: I— this is kind of how us booking guests goes, which is go through their Twitter feed in the last few months and see if they’ve referenced anything from baseball, whatsoever.
If they have, book it, book it. And even if they haven’t, you see if, like, maybe they might care about, like, workers and then we all [1:27:44]
ALEX: Right, yeah.
BOBBY: —back into the same big pool.
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: It was a great conversation with Andy and Christine from Pool Kids, and I think people will really enjoy it. We also have a bonus episode coming up that week where we clean up all the questions that we didn’t get— didn’t have time to answer on our 300th Episode mailbag. That’ll be a Patreon episode. And then the following weekend, a normal mailbag and voicemails. I know a lot of people have been calling into the voicemail box to keep it alive, and they’ve been sending— people have been sending us voice— or sending us questions via email. So please continue to do that, because in a couple of weeks, we’re going to do a full episode mailbag out of those voicemails and questions. So that number is 785-422-5881. I think that’s everything. I just gave people, like, the next, like, months’ worth of content. So—
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Ingest it, prepare for it. It’s gonna be exciting. We’ll see you next week.
SPEAKER 5: There goes my head up in the clouds, every time I hear your name out loud.
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello, everybody. I’m Alex Rodriguez. Tipping Pitches. Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most. Tipping Pitches. So, we’ll see you next week. See ya!
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