Bobby and Alex discuss Queen Elizabeth, MLB’s decision to voluntarily recognize the minor league union, and the rule changes coming in 2023. Then they bring on San Francisco Giants reliever Trevor Hildenberger to discuss the timeline of the minor league unionization effort, what the conversations were like in the clubhouse, how life in the minor leagues shifted his perception of labor, and more.
Follow Trevor at @t_hildy.
Links:
Steve Gelbs wrecks Zack Hample
Songs featured in this episode:
Kelly Clarkson — “Breakaway” • Luther Vandross — “Never Too Much” • David Archuleta — “Crush” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and, and, and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about? That’s amazing! That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Now, Alex, I know we usually start the podcast with jokes. But I want to start the podcast by talking about something very serious today. I want to start the podcast by talking about baseball. I thought maybe we could just do a hot 10 minutes on the likelihood of the Mets or the Braves to win the NL East. What do you think?
ALEX: I’m gonna need to do some preparation first, and probably watch some baseball.
BOBBY: Do want to go, and then come back?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And then start recording again? No, just kidding. I want to start by talking about Queen Elizabeth. What else would we start this baseball podcast out?
ALEX: I mean, we would be remiss–
BOBBY: Talking about–
ALEX: –if we, if we did not mention this.
BOBBY: I mean, if we did not mention this, we would be the only figures in the baseball world to not mention it, apparently.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I mean, I know she came to one baseball game in the 1990s. But like, come on.
ALEX: I mean, her shadow looms large over the game, right?
BOBBY: In what way? Explain that. Say more.
ALEX: You know, a, a, a steadfast refusal to change? In the face of cultural growth.
BOBBY: Right. So your argument is that she’s sort of like a template for what baseball has modeled itself after?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Okay. I see it. I like it. I like where your head’s at.
ALEX: I mean, you can’t say that Major League Baseball doesn’t have empirally- imperialist tendencies.
BOBBY: And imperialist desires, you know–
ALEX: Yeah, exactly.
BOBBY: –a refusal to give up on them, you could say.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: The thing that I wanted to note and dialogue with you about was something that our friend Bradford William Davis tweeted. He tweeted a an image at the New York Yankees game of a memorial on the Jumbotron, the big screen there. And then he followed up and said that at that game, that they decided to have a moment of silence, and they asked the crowd to stand up and remove their caps. They asked the crowd at the New York Yankees game, to stand up and have a moment of silence and remove their caps for the Queen of England. I just wanted to get your thoughts, you know.
ALEX: You can get Yankees fans to do so much if you just put it on the Jumbotron.
BOBBY: Well, you could but like, the thing that’s confusing is I feel like Yankees fans have a lot of pride over being the Yankees.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And the Yankees were sort of like the whole thing that undermined, the monarchy.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: They’re like the biggest success story against the monarchy, arguably,
ALEX: I, I mean, maybe they just wanted to tip their cap to, to the crown, you know. You had a good run. Good, good job, good effort.
BOBBY: I think it’s just proved to me that the Yankees are not America’s team.
ALEX: No. Exactly.
BOBBY: The New York Mets on the other hand, now, they also had an [3:20]
ALEX: I love that one.
BOBBY: Is there any baseball team that didn’t have a moment of silence?
ALEX: That’s a good question, actually.
BOBBY: We need to do some boots on the ground reporting about this. We’ll get back to you next week.
ALEX: I love that they had them remove their caps.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Like, by asking folks to do the same gesture that you do during the say National Anthem. Are you equating the weight of the National Anthem and the Queen of England dying?
BOBBY: Do you know why caps are disrespectful? I don’t have the answer, I’m actually asking, do you know like, why we always have to remove our hats?
ALEX: I don’t, I mean–
BOBBY: Is it a sign of respect to take down that wall and show everyone your hat, Harry?
ALEX: I mean, I think it probably has something to do with like, letting people actually see your face, you know. Like, in the old days, you remove your cap when you walk into an establishment so that so that, you know you’re actually presenting your, your full self.
BOBBY: Is that true or did you just make that up?
ALEX: It sounds right, doesn’t it?
BOBBY: That, that sounds pretty good. Yeah, I like that.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: If you remove your cap to prove that you’re not like an outlaw.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: The use, you remove, remove your cap when you stand next to the posters, the wanted posters. And they say, okay, you’re allowed in the establishment. It’s like, they don’t check your ID because you could just drink when you were like seven back in the old days.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: I like it.
ALEX: Maybe it was like you have to be this tall to get on the ride, to enter the saloon.
BOBBY: Well, if you’re a fan of a baseball team, and you know for certain that your team did not have a moment of silence and did not acknowledge the Queen in any way, shape, or form, please let us know, by calling our voicemail–
ALEX: Who these traitors are?
BOBBY: –by calling our voicemail 7854225881, writing to us at tippingpitchespod@gmail.com. I think we’ve made enough monarchy jokes. There was one of the best days on Twitter in a very, very long time.
ALEX: It was pretty remarkable. Yeah, I, it’s kind of funny how like, momentous days in history, for me are marked by like, how much I enjoyed being on Twitter that day.
BOBBY: Right. I saw a lot of people being like, power rank these two days on Twitter, Trump gets COVID, Queen Elizabeth passes away.
ALEX: Kind of 1a, 1b, right?
BOBBY: I mean, yeah, beautiful for such similar and different reasons. I think one of the most momentous days for us on Twitter also happened recently and that was when Rob Manfred just came out and said that he was going to voluntarily recognize the minor leaguers as part of the Major League Baseball Players Association. We are of course going to spend quite a bit of time talking about that. We will have a discussion with Trevor Hildenberger, who is currently with the San Jose Giants. Has spent some time with the Twins and the Mets, is now in the Giants system. About that organizing effort. We’re gonna do a little rule cha- rule change chat, because we can be baited into yelling about these things just like everybody else can. But before we do all of that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I am Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[6:14]
[Music Theme]
BOBBY: Alex, before we start a shout out to our new patrons this week. I’m just gonna read these names slowly. And I want you to tell me if you see anything coincidental in them. New patrons this week, on the week that Queen, Queen Elizabeth has passed. William, Baby Statesman, Camden, and Michael.
ALEX: What are they trying to tell us?
BOBBY: Is this thinkly British feel to those names, am I wrong?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: William, isn’t he, isn’t he the new air now?
ALEX He is. Yeah.
BOBBY: See, I got, I always get that wrong. I kind of thought he was the next King. And now there’s a different one, Char-Charles?
ALEX: It is Charles.
BOBBY: That who it is? So stupid. I don’t even have anything funny to say it’s just stupid. Baby Statesman, Camden, which is a place in England.
ALEX: Right. And it’s also Camden is also the name of the, the ballpark, the, the team that Queen Elizabeth went to see what eventually played.
BOBBY: You’re so right. Nobody is talking about it.
ALEX: Oh. really?
BOBBY: Nobody is talking about this. Thank you to those new patrons this week. We, we’re very deeply appreciate your support and these trying times. I want to start this week’s podcast out in earnest by playing some audio for you.
Reporter: What is the league’s position on it? And do you plan to voluntarily recognize them?
ROB: Yeah. We, I believe, notified the MLBPA today that we’re prepared to execute an agreement on voluntary recognition. I think they’re working on the language as we speak.
ALEX: Let’s go!
BOBBY: That was Commissioner Robert D. Manfred of Major League Baseball. Basically, voluntarily recognizing the minor league players as part of the Major League Baseball Players Association.
ALEX: Yeah. I, first of all, I want to say I love the phrasing here. We today, I believe, let them know. Like I can actually so relate to that. I’m like, I think, I thought I told you.
BOBBY: He’s a–
ALEX: Right? I’m pretty sure, I’m pretty sure i told you.
BOBBY: He’s a lawyer, true and true. He’s always get leaving himself a little wiggle room to get out of this–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –you know? Tap on, Rob. What the hell, man?
ALEX: Yeah. What?
BOBBY: What?
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: What happened?
ALEX: Huh?
BOBBY: How? How did this happen so fast?
ALEX: I do- I don’t know, we really didn’t have enough faith in our man.
BOBBY: Is it that we didn’t have enough faith in our man or is that we spoke so firmly that he decided he wanted to make a fool of us.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Is a question that we need to ask ourselves here.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That we came out so strongly against the idea that Rob Manfred, who is no friend of labor, organized labor. We said it multiple times on our podcast last week with Eugene Freedman. That we said it’s so strongly that, that he was just like, you know what? I’m gonna throw him a curveball. They’re sitting dead rat, I’m throwing him the, the hammer.
ALEX: This is a, this is our high flying bird moment, you know. This is, this is where we scare him into coming to the table.
BOBBY: Right, exactly. So okay, a brief timeline of events, all of which happened this week, Tuesday, September 6, the Major League Baseball Players Association request voluntary recognition for over 5000 new minor leaguers, joining their bargaining unit. This came after Tony Clark said publicly that they had over 50% return rate of the union cards that they had passed out a couple of Sundays ago that we eventually did our emergency reaction podcast for. Wednesday, September 7, the MLBPA joins the AFL-CIO, which is the Federation of a lot of major unions in this country. They all gather under one umbrella to show solidarity with each other, to skill share, to share organizers, to share resources, that sort of thing. Friday, September 9, that clip, Evan Drellich asked Rob Manfred in a press conference. Former guests of the podcast, Evan Drellich asks Rob Manfred in a press conference. If MLB will consider voluntarily recognized in the Union, and Rob says, yes. So, okay, what do you think happened? Because it’s obvious that Rob Manfred is not psyched about this. He’s not like this is what I’ve been waiting for since I became Commissioner in 2015. If he had his druthers, none of this organizing would be happening. I don’t think he necessarily in his heart of heart cares either way, whether the minor leaguers have union, have a union. I don’t think Rob Manfred sits down at night. And he’s like, man, that salad picture was great. We need to keep, we need to keep that going. Man, minor league or sleeping in their cars is good. I don’t think Rod Man- honestly don’t think Rob Manfred thinks that. But do you think that this is moreso Rob acknowledging the inevitable? Or do you think that this is some kind of strategy a larger? Do you think this is part of some kind of strategy, larger strategy on MLB side, to voluntarily recognize it now and then sort of like get their ducks in a row for the actual fight which is the bargaining?
ALEX: Right. I mean, I think it’s a little bit of both, right? I mean, I think they probably recognized they could whip up a little goodwill with the coming union, if they didn’t immediately start things out on the bad foot by not recognizing them, right? And, and going through this protracted process. Because, you know, it’s no secret that this is going to be a real struggle, right? If the fight is just beginning. And I think the league probably recognize that their backs were against a wall a little bit. They, they have had this, this lawsuit that was making its way through the courts for years. That was, that was settled back earlier this year. That indicated that they were violating wage laws in California and Arizona. They’ve got the, the Senate Judiciary Committee kind of breathing down their necks about their treatment of minor leaguers. And I think they probably just recognize that the tenor of the conversation has changed a little bit, right? And I think they probably want to save their resources for what the fight is actually going to be. Like my guess is that they probably had a pretty good idea that the MLBPA was going to have the votes for minor leaguers, right? Through whatever means of research they, they do. Whatever ears to the ground, they have. They probably knew that this was the path of least resistance on, on their end. Rather than spending the next few weeks, months, waging what would probably be a fruitless PR war and be just one more stain on Manfred’s legacy, which has quite a few already.
BOBBY: Yeah, that’s actually what roving heading instructors have been doing the last 10 years or so since that became like a really popular position. They just, they’re kind of getting the tenor of whether minor league union is coming. Or not actually helping minor leaguers develop their basketball skills. No, I think you’re right. I’m glad that you brought up the Senate Judiciary Committee. You know, when we talk to Trevor, later in this episode, he’s going to bring up the lawsuit that you referenced as well as being one of the things that was really helpful in terms of organizing. Because it’s something that you could concretely point to and say, here’s something that they did to everybody. And here’s a direct result of that action and us standing together and doing this in the Class Action Forum. But the Senate Judiciary Committee coming after their antitrust exemption just came out like a really terrible time, I think. Because, and I think that that’s part of the calculation, when a guy like Tony Clark gets up there. And he says, this is the right time for all of this. And it’s the right group of players, the group of players that has banded together in the courts. And has organized alongside Advocates for Minor Leaguers coming right in this window where it’s starting to become a little less politically palatable for these clubs to just operate unencumbered of these legal barriers that every other company in the entire world and America has to face. And so I think that it’s to me, almost like a strategic retreat from Rob and from MLB. Where if they go scorched earth right now, there’s, there’s a chance that the Senate Judiciary Committee plays politics and makes an example out of them. Because honestly, that’s how Senators behave. You know, they, they look around and they say, what is the thing that is going to win me the most political points right now? And if 30 billionaires are continuing to, to stand their ground against the right to organize and, and force them to go to an NLRB vote, they clearly have the support and they’re trying to join a union that already exists and is already a labor victory throughout history in the MLBPA. I think that that makes it that much more likely that the Senate Judiciary Committee just torches them, you know. And that comes completely after them. And so if Rob turns to the 30 owners who are probably not happy right now, and he says, look, there’s two options right now. They have the votes, o there’s two options, we can either try our darndest to whittle away all of the support that we can and still probably not get it under 50% for the eventual vote. And in doing so, essentially forced the Senate Judiciary committee’s hand to go all in on us. Or we can voluntary bracket- voluntarily recognized right now. And when when I have my Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, in a couple months from now, I can say here’s what I did, I voluntarily recognize that their union. Case closed, everything’s good now. And hoped that the Senators just get bored, and I don’t know, decided to go after Amazon or something. Or decided to go after Howard Schultz for all of the union busting that they’ve been doing at Starbucks. I really don’t know, that’s because we were so steadfast, we were so certain that they would not voluntarily recognize this union. And so that’s really one of the only explanations that I can think of is that the forces are aligning against them so much that they’re afraid of a worse outcome than just having to bargain with the minor leaguers.
ALEX: The other point that’s important here that you referenced earlier, but I think maybe kind of went slightly overlooked with the, with the bigger news and, and given that it’s a little more inside baseball is the joining of the AFL-CIO, right? Major League Baseball’s decision or the Players Association’s decision to join this, this federation of, of trade unions. Which, which just creates more solidarity, not only within the PA itself, but when it comes to future labor actions, either inside or outside baseball.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Now they have this broader network of people who can stand by a them or who they will stand behind, right? I mean, it’s not a, a union, in and of itself. But it is a collection of unions who can share resources, who can share strategies, who can band together and show public displays of support for each other. And, and that’s, I, I think, an underappreciated aspect of the way that the Players Association is building its worker power.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Because I know that there were, there were moments kind of over the last couple of years where, where things would happen to the broader labor landscape, and it would be a question for us of like, are the players going to come out and address this? Are they going to throw their support behind this, you know, industry of workers? And this feels like a huge step in, in that direction for building long term worker solidarity.
BOBBY: Yeah, I mean, so the AFL-CIO is not a union in and of itself, in the sense that we talk about unions from a legal perspective. Like, from, from the perspective of the National Labor Relations Board, they are not a union that can bargain against anybody, specifically. But I think the AFL-CIO, thinks of themselves as one union together, it’s a collection of unions. And so that is just a stronger union based on the logic of what solidarity really means. And so when people say one union, like #OneU, when you see that at the end of people’s tweets about solidarity, actions, about unions, and that sort of thing. That is what they’re talking about, they’re talking about this larger worker collective that is really all one union. So I, I actually do think it is an MLB, the MLBPA, in conjunction with what they’re doing right now, which is trying to organize the most, most vulnerable workers in their industry, with the exception of we should say, with the exception of the important caveat of the players who are in the Dominican Summer League camps, who are not going to be part of this card check agreement. That is, that is tentatively been drawn up by both sides right now. It will not include the, the Dominican facilities players. And now, there’s a lot of like legalese as to why they can or can’t include those players in this minor league union. They technically are employed in a different country, even though they are employed by a company that is based in the United States, but they don’t, they don’t work under United States workers laws. And so it’s going to be up to the minor league union bargaining committee to try to do their best to get clauses in there that support those players without directly, without them being direct members, right? But I think that joining the AFL-CIO is to other people in labor circles, an indication that they want to work a little bit more collaborative, a little bit more collaboratively, and a little bit more collectively. And that’s a welcome message to me. Because, you know, we, we had reservations about their solidarity across the rest of the organized labor world in the past. And, you know, I’ve, I’ve given the caveat sometimes that that, that a union is only as radical as its current membership, and its current executive leadership. And that leadership turns over a lot. So that that can sort of explain why maybe this iteration of the MLBPA wants to do a little bit more in the wider labor movement. But our friend Bradford William Davis, and now it’s the second time that I’ve referenced Bradford on this, on this podcast. Send us a story or, a story earlier this week and asked if we had seen it. And it was a story from Jason wolf in the Arizona Republic, who did an investigation into MLB and the MLBPA. Who made that joint announcement during the lockout that they would each be providing $1 million in funds to ballpark workers who were going to be affected by the lockout. To help get them through that period of time where they were not going to be getting a paycheck. And Jason discovered that MLB dispersed 160,000 of that. And the Players Association has not given any of the money, that they promised to give to those spring training workers seeking aid. And that it hasn’t rolled out that they’ll give more in the future, but that they haven’t given that money now. And that’s, that’s the sort of thing that if you’re going to join the AFL-CIO, if you’re going to organize the most vulnerable workers in your space, that that is unacceptable. And so I think that there is now more of a mechanism and an expectation on the MLBPA, that they will disperse funds like that. That they will show more support and solidarity. That they won’t cross a picket line to stay in a hotel in 2018, because it’s convenient for the Red Sox. And honestly, I’m not trying to be snarky about it. I’m not, I’m not trying to make a snide comment about it. That’s the type of thing that unions don’t do. When, when Amazon is union busting the ALU, the teamsters don’t deliver for them. Like these are the expectations of being part of the AFL-CIO. And I don’t think that MLBPA takes that lightly by joining them. Because they don’t, they didn’t have to join. They haven’t been part of it, sort of infamously they’re not part of it. When there are other Players Associations, like the NFLPA, who is part of the AFL-CIO. So it also comes at an interesting time where there’s a wider coalition of sports unions who are trying to improve working conditions for some of the league’s in situations that have been left behind. Like the National Women’s Soccer Team. And so hopefully, they can be leaders on this front. Because obviously, the MLBPA, as we’ve discussed many, many times, they’ve been, you know, at the vanguard of some of the most successful labor fights in American history. So I don’t know, it’s, it’s exciting to me.
ALEX: It definitely feels like an kind of the next chapter in MLB’s long storied labor history, right? Which went kind of dormant for a couple of decades, right? Really, I mean, this is the, the biggest thing to happen on the labor landscape since the, since the strike in the ’90s. And in that interim period, I think they kind of lost a little bit of momentum. So this could definitely set up set them up well, to really be leaders in the sports industry. And you know, as it relates to labor into the broader labor community, as you know, as we’ve been saying, given the hopeful solidarity, they’ll show to other unions kind of coming down the road.
BOBBY: I think we got a reply to our tweet when, when they announced that they were going to be joining the AFL-CIO. And I quote tweeted it, someone replied and said, I’d love to hear you guys talk about like the, basically the politics of Federation’s of unions. And like what it means to be in the AFL-CIO alongside other unions who sometimes don’t have the best politics or don’t have the wider worker movement in mind. I mean, I think there’s this reputation, right? That a coalition of unions that big, can never act as radically as one union could act on their own. I think that is some received wisdom. If you spend enough time in labor circles and read enough labor theory. Because the AFL-CIO, you know, it’s a place where like cop unions are part of the AFL-CIO. And some of the more radical unions within the AFL-CIO would say, kick them out. They’re not allowed to be part of this. And so by joining the AFL-CIO, you might say, okay, well MLBPA, how radical can they want to be when they’re joining this place with, with a bunch of police unions and things like that? And I’m gonna note to that question, it’s kind of a hard, it’s kind of hard question to answer. Because like, unions within the AFL-CIO can act as radical as they want still. The AFL-CIO is never going to say, don’t go on strike. You know, like UNITE HERE, who when, when there was the strike authorization vote with the Dodgers, the UNITE HERE is one of the unions, that represents a lot of hospitality workers, and they’re part of the AFL-CIO. And you have organi- we had organizers on the podcast and they said, we think of ourselves as a radical union, we go on strike where we need to. And so I don’t think that this, I don’t think this is the MLBPA saying we’re going to be more radical or we’re going to be less radical. It’s just them saying, we are going to participate in more things in the wider labor movement. And so that’s why I think this is good. That’s why I think this is a win for the labor movement, as opposed to them sort of just existing on their own and being incredibly beneficial and a success story, but only for a very, very small subset of workers.
ALEX: It’s gonna be really unfortunate when Eric Adams spurns the NYPD, and they turn their back on him and MLB players do the same.
BOBBY: You think Adam is gonna spurn the NYPD?
ALEX: Absolutely not!
BOBBY: I kind of feel like, that’s the last–
ALEX: No!
BOBBY: –thing that you ever do.
ALEX: They did this just to placate him.
BOBBY: It’s gonna be unfortunate when the Mets won the World Series, and Eric Adams is pissed about it. And the Mets have to turn to Eric Adams and say, you’re in our union, dude. You’re supposed to support us. Mets win the World Series, Eric Adams says, solidarity.
ALEX: Did we figure out, did we figure out that he calls himself a Mets fan?
BOBBY: Wait, did we figure that out?
ALEX: I mean, I don’t know how true it was. But he like threw out a first pitch at the game.
BOBBY: Oh, yeah. So then it’s, so then [26:42]–
ALEX: [26:42]
BOBBY: –it’s gonna be unfortunate when the Yankees–
ALEX: When the Yanke- wow! Yeah, you can say no, no.
BOBBY: –literally felt my tongue–
ALEX: Cut the recording.
BOBBY: Okay, anything else to say on the voluntary recognition? Aside from the fact that like, holy shit, it happened?
ALEX: No, I mean, like I said earlier, I think now comes the real fight, right? This was like step zero. It’s the most important step in this process, for sure. But things are not going to be easy in the coming negotiations.
BOBBY: It’s the most important step, but it’s not the hardest step.
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: It’s a good way of thinking about it.
ALEX: Yes, exactly. Because they’re really far apart. I mean, I don’t even know what issues are being discussed. And I already know they’re very far–
BOBBY: That’s for the [27:31]–
ALEX: –apart, you know?
BOBBY: Yeah, that’s for a future podcast. I guess, it’s actua- it’s worthwhile to say, actually, what comes next. Which is that there’ll be a voluntary card check agreement on Wednesday of this week, we’re recording this on a Sunday, it’ll come out on a Monday. So whenever you listen to it. On Wednesday, September 14, I believe is when the card check agreement is happening, according to Trevor, later in this episode. And so after that, as long as everything goes smoothly, and there’s no legal contentions with that voluntary card check, what happens next is that the minor league unit will elect members to their bargaining committee. The same way that the MLBPA has individual team representatives, as well as the executive subcommittee of players who make up their bargaining committee when there is a CBA negotiation. And so I don’t know how many people will be in that bargaining committee, probably a lot. It’s usually about like 10% of your unit. So that would be about like 50 people, all of them would probably not participate in bargaining. Because that would become very unwieldy, very fast every single time. But they will elect those members as representative of the wider unit. And those members will confer back and forth with the rest of the, the unit t, to figure out what they want to fight hardest for. And they’ll have a ton of stuff to bargain over. Because this will be their first time bargaining, they have nothing guaranteed, they have nothing written in stone about what they, nothing written in stone that they can carry over from a previous CBA, and say, we just want to keep everything the same. Every single thing that materially affects their working conditions will need to be bargained over down to the word more or less. And it’s gonna be a big fight. Like you said, it, it’s, it’s gonna be a big fight. But in terms of next steps, it’s electing a bargaining committee. And who knows, maybe some, maybe some friends of the show will be on that bargaining committee.
ALEX: Yeah, I got a couple of recommendations I can put in.
BOBBY: All right, you wanna talk about rule changes?
ALEX: I guess.
BOBBY: So like, I think of rule changes as one of the things that we’ve honestly talked about the most throughout the history of the show, unfortunately. But it’s been such a front and center story–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –for the Rob Manfred–
ALEX: It just keep on coming.
BOBBY: –Commissioner’s Office, you know. Like he’s made this, he said something about rule changes in his introductory press conference. And that’s been a theme of his commissionership ever since then. That he wants to make rule changes, for whatever reason, to make the game more appealing to a younger audience. So we got three rules this past week.
ALEX: Kind of, we got like three new rules, and some of them have like 12 different subsections on how they’re applied.
BOBBY: Right. And it, it they came to us under the process that was outlined in this recent round of CBA negotiations. And that is that there is a competition committee made up of five representatives from teams, one umpire, and four representatives from the players side. And so there is a majority, obviously, on the league side, so they can essentially, if they are all aligned amongst each other, out vote anything that the players want to do in terms of changing the rules. That’s something that I think it’s important to start this conversation by saying, because the players basically gave that up in bargaining and say, you can change the rules, I guess. And it’s been that way for a while. So I imagine that they didn’t think of it as them giving something up. But knowing Rob, it’s basically like giving him carte blanche now to, to make all of his rule changes under the accepted collectively bargained agreement. Those three rule changes are there’ll be a pitch clock, the much discussed pitch clock. It’d be 15 seconds when the bases are empty, 20 seconds when there’s runners on base. A hitter can get one timeout per plate appearance. And that comes along with a limit two pick offs over to first base or I guess over to any base. Because when you perform a pickoff move, the clock will reset. So they want to prevent people from resetting the clock at their whim. To avoid manipulation of this pitch clock. There’ll be bigger basis for second and third. Instead of being a 15-inch square, they will be an 18-inch square. And the third one, perhaps the one that I disliked the most. Is that they’re banning the shift. There will be shift restrictions. There needs to be two infielders with two feet on the dirt on each side of second base to start every single pitch. Alex, your thoughts?
ALEX: I have like no thoughts about 67% of these rules–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –changes.
BOBBY: Which 67% of those?
ALEX: What do you think? Here’s the thing, pitch clock? Fine with it.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Seems like it works. That’s what I’ve all of, all of the people smarter than I who’ve watched more of this in action than I have said it works and you get used to it pretty easily. So that’s fine. I, I know we poke fun at all the kind of hand wringing the, the moral panic over the pace of play and the length of baseball games.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: But I also wouldn’t mind them being shorter like that’s, that’s cool with me if it keeps more action in the game and keeps things moving along, great! That nothing wrong with that.
BOBBY: I was on board with this until I saw someone share that Gary, Keith, and Ron had a conversation in yesterday’s Mets game. That was like, what was the pitch clock, we won’t have enough time to really banter as much? I was like, fuck!
ALEX: You’re right.
BOBBY: That’s core to my fan experience is their banter. But that’s not the case for all announcing booth. It’s not the case for every baseball game. So–
ALEX: Right, actually I–
BOBBY: –don’t let my Mets fan–
ALEX For the most part, it will probably be beneficial in that regard.
BOBBY: Yes, exactly, exactly the probably save a lot of announcers from losing themselves jobs.
ALEX: Yeah. The only thing about the pitch clock is again, it, it gets into the weeds so much–
BOBBY: Yup!
ALEX: –with what counts as a timeout. And what counts as the pitcher. disengaging and–
BOBBY: I love Max Scherzer just immediately was like I’m gonna find a way to manipulate this.
ALEX: Yeah. So fun is Max.
BOBBY: Yeah. And who’s gonna stop?
ALEX: Honestly, well–
BOBBY: [33:44] come out there and be like, Max Scherzer, no?
ALEX: I have- but that that’s kind of my question, right? It’s like–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –how, what is the enforcement of this sort of thing gonna look like?
BOBBY: Yeah, because famously, like 10 years ago, or like in the mid 2000s, or something like that. There was the rule about how you’re not allowed to step out of the batter’s box between pitches, and that rule is still in effect.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Go watch the game. Go watch any baseball game. See if anyone is enforcing that rule.
ALEX: The, the thing that stood out to me most about this specific rule changes that walk-up songs are limited to 10 seconds.
BOBBY: It’s horseshit. You’ve just limited the amount of songs that you can even select from. Because some songs you need more than 10 seconds to really hit home.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know, that hook, you might need 12 seconds. It’s anti-American.
ALEX: Yeah, this the TikTok-facation of Major League Baseball.
BOBBY: Exactly. I was told that patience is a virtue, you know. Like, what, what was my childhood for?
ALEX: Yeah, there’s no payoff anymore. Dude, does Edwin Diaz have to run in to the pitcher’s mound in a 10-second period of time? No way. Dude.
BOBBY: That’s so short.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: Like Usain Bolting it from the–
ALEX: The bullpen park–
BOBBY: –from the bullpen.
ALEX: –bring them back.
BOBBY: Bullpen cars going like 25 [34:57]. At least gets, get marks in the outfield? Uhm, I think it’s fine. I think the pitch clock is fine, I think it’s good. I agree with the MLBPA’s stance, they released a statement from the competition committee members afterwards as to why they voted unanimously against the pitch clock and this and unanimously against the pitch clock and the shift restrictions. Was because it’s basically going from no rules about this to pretty strict rules really fast. And there hasn’t been, you know, I don’t think that there’s been that big of a sample size of a study that proves to me that people won’t get hurt from this. And I think the reason I’m fine with this is because ultimately, if you can’t gather and throw a pitch within 15 or 20 seconds, you’re probably throwing harder than you should be throwing for your UCL anyway. So I, I think it’s okay to ask players to adjust for the sake of the game, for the sake of having fans of the game. Because I think it’s not just about limiting game length. I think it’s what you’re talking about. It’s about, it’s about game flow. And those are two slightly different things. Maybe that seems a little bit pedantic. But I think that having less time between pitches is probably in the aggregate a good thing. Bigger base is fine, great. Haven’t seen anybody be like, no the bases should be actually smaller. But that’d be a good zag for someone–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –out there listening. You like get on Twitter be like thread 1 of 37, why the bases should be smaller? Let’s talk about the shift, man, ‘cuz we’ve talked about this rule a lot.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Or do you agree with me that it’s insane that they’re doing this?
ALEX: Yes, it’s ridiculous.
BOBBY: Okay. Can you say why? Because I’m not sure if we have the exact same opinion. Like word for word, or if I’m just a crank.
ALEX: I mean, instituting this sort of restriction on where players can play. As a reaction to how the game has developed, is antithetical to the notion of any sense of progress within the game. Teams are getting smarter, they’re finding different ways to gain an edge. They are playing the game different, the game just looks different now than it did 150 years ago. And so the idea that we need to keep it in this antiquated form, just as a way to placate the old heads who, you know, can’t wrap their heads around four players on one side of the base. Or, or to, to supposedly, you know, bring offense back into the game or whatever. Which it’s not going to do. Like the things they want it to do, it’s not going to do.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But like–
BOBBY: Rob Manfred has never read a wrestle Carlton–
ALEX: No, absolutely not.
BOBBY: –article and slide.
ALEX: But like- so, I really, I really don’t get, I don’t get what their you’re doing it. I just don’t. I, not enough people are actually that mad about this, that it’s really something that needed to be addressed right now.
BOBBY: I mean, I, I agree with you. I think it’s fascinating that this is the thing that they landed on. That this is one of the things that they think will bring offense back into the game for a couple of reasons. Because so you know, technocrat Rob, we’ve discussed how Rob has this technocratic approach to trying to fix the game. He thinks that he can lawyer his way out of any problem. He thinks that he can rulebook his way out of any problem. When you look at the shift, you say, Okay, who does this help? This helps power, this helps lefties who hit for power. They’re going to get a few more singles to the right side. Is that the largest subsection of players these days? Is the strikeout problem only confined to left-handed players who gets shifted against? You know, and of course, there’s more, there’s more and more shifts as we go. So they’re starting to shift righties more often, they’re starting to shift in more creative ways. They shift up the middle a little bit more versus they shade all the way to the right. They put the whole infield on the right side. They shift the outfield a different way than they shift to the infield. I just don’t know that that’s the problem. Honestly, you know, if you are an effectively while listener, you’ve probably heard multiple times throughout the, the history of that podcast that you’ve heard them make the argument that this might increase strikeout rate. Because pitchers might just say, okay, well, now I don’t have the shift anymore. So there’s even less of a reason for me to try to induce ground balls. Let me just go all in on trying to strike out as many guys as possible. Because this will make it harder for my defense to make outs if the ball gets put in play. I think that’s pretty reasonable, honestly. I think that that sort of logic is the same type of logic that teams have employed that got us to this point of shifting and three true outcomes. I agree with everything you said. I agree that this is a, this is basically telling teams that they shouldn’t try to progress their strategies in baseball. And that they should just conform to what some people think is aesthetically pleasing version of the game. It’s curious that you think that just, just curious for a reason that I won’t name because it’s banned from talking about it on the podcast. Teams make a deci- making a decision about what they think is better for them. Like, I don’t know, like a certain position not being able to hit but focusing mostly on developing their–
ALEX: I, I love–
BOBBY: –defense.
ALEX: –you can’t let this go. I love that you can’t let it go.
BOBBY: It’s so, it’s so reactionary, that they’re banning this shift. I can’t believe they gave into people who were like, whose best argument was when a ground ball goes up the middle, I expect it to be a hit.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s fucking insane!
ALEX: I know. I mean, I just the, the, the one difference that I see with your unnamed case is that this is penalizing the game for cha–
BOBBY: For changing for this matter.
ALEX: –this is, right. Or just changing at all. Whether or not that shift is good or not doesn’t even matter. But like it’s litigating this idea of baseball that says there is a purest form of it, right? And that is with two players on each side of the base and, and–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: –batters should learn to do. And it’s just like, that doesn’t even track with all of the other rule changes that have–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –been made, you know. Like the baseball is not in its quote unquote, like “purest form” anymore. The game has changed. And–
BOBBY: Right, are you going to, are you going to institute a minimum that pitchers, starting pitchers are allowed to throw now?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Because you thought it was more fun when pitchers went deep in the game?
ALEX: Yes, exactly.
BOBBY: It’s insane. That’s insane. And also, the thing that’s most frustrating about it to me is that it’s just anti intellectual.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s like teams spent years developing strategies for how to defensively align. And that’s good. It made bad defenders passable, and it make good defenders great. And you looked at that, and you said, we should not allow that. It’s, it’s silly. It’s, it’s penalizing the smartest teams for being smart. I don’t get that.
ALEX: Yeah, we do a lot of penalizing good teams for doing good things as of late.
BOBBY: It’s sort of like the, the luxury tax of rule changes. All that being said another effectively wild shout out I was listening to their most recent episode with they do a segment called Past Blast. Where they share stories and facts from baseball’s history. Well, back in the rear view of baseball his- baseball’s history and the guy who assisted with them in that research up until 1900, it’s a guy named Richard Hershberger. And he was on the pod this past week talking about the rule changes, because there were obviously so many rule changes early on in baseball’s history that got it to the sort of purest form that we know it has now. And he made a pretty compelling case to me that in the, in the long, long view of baseball’s history, the shift chain, the, the banning the shift rule change is like one of the, the less radical ones, honestly. And how it’s going to actually change the game. Like it’s much less radical than like moving the mountain back or lowering the mountain in terms of how much it’s actually going to change what we watch next year. And we’ll probably just do it quickly. So for all this fervor that we have right now, I think in like 18 months, we’re just not going to talk about this. Like I’m not going to see a single up the middle and be like that should have been fielded.
ALEX: But that also doesn’t make it any less stupid. Like it’s also–
BOBBY: That’s so [43:30]
ALEX: –it’s also not going to change things for the better, I don’t think. And it’ll probably change the game in ways that we aren’t really aware of–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –right now.
BOBBY: Like it’s gonna make Kyle Tucker the MVP.
ALEX: Actually as he should be.
BOBBY: Because he’s so fuckin’ [43:42]–
ALEX: Frank- yeah.
BOBBY: –guy? Most underrated player in baseball.
ALEX: But like if you’re making a rule change that functionally, the, the fans don’t really notice, but it also doesn’t really change the pace or tenor of the game. Like what was the, what was the point of the rule change?
BOBBY: I don’t know, dude. La- my final thought on this is that everybody gets a trophy culture strikes again.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Oh, you can’t hit the other way. Guess we’re just changing the rules for you then. The worst suffocation of the American baseball player. Oh, can’t learn to hit the other way. I guess, here comes Rob Manfred to save you. Alright, let’s take a quick break. And then when we come back, we’re gonna talk to Trevor Hildenberger, about unionizing the minor leagues.
[44:28]
[Music Transition]
BOBBY: All right, we are now joined by Trevor Hildenberger, friend of the pod Trevor Hildenberger. What’s up, man?
TREVOR: What’s up? I’m a huge fan. You guys have no idea how genuine it is when I say it is an honor to be here.
ALEX: Wow.
BOBBY: You flatter us, sir. You flatter us, sir. Trevor, you are with the San Jose Giants. You of course started with the Twins organization, you’re with the Mets for a bit. Moving all around, recovering from flexor surgery right now. But we’re not here to talk about flexor surgery. We’re here to talk about the minor league union. So–
TREVOR: Yeah, let’s go!
BOBBY: –to all of this, to start all of this. Like, how, how shocked were you? Take us through when all of this unfolded. It’s all happened so damn fast. So what, what is this whole process look like from a real baseball player side? We obviously know how it unfolded on the Tipping Pitches Podcast. Where we just gotten a microphone and, and, and yelled shit that we probably don’t even remember at this point. But take us through what it was like for you, man?
TREVOR: Yeah, I mean, I think the last few weeks have seemed fast. I think this is a, a long time in the making, obviously. Decades in the making. I think people have known about the, the poor working conditions of minor leagues for a long time. But yeah, in terms of how stunning it is, between August 1st and now. Yeah, frankly, I’m shocked.
ALEX: With start with listeners–
TREVOR: Ecstatic.
ALEX: –like giddy-look on your face right now, I love it.
TREVOR: And stop smiling. It’s so cool, man. It’s and it’s going to help so many 1000s of people and their families for hopefully decades to come. So it’s definitely the coolest thing that I’ve been a part of, in my career. I think it’s cooler than pitching the big leagues. I think it’s cooler than graduating college. I think it’s cooler than just about almost everything. To, to be a part of this, you know, with a group of guys that I think it was the right people at the right time. And the events over the last three or four years. Maybe even five years, you know, really came to a head and we made a push made it happen. And here we are, recognized union card verification by third party on Wednesday.
ALEX: Hell yeah. Let’s go!
BOBBY: Can’t believe we’re having this conversation.
TREVOR: Let’s fucking go!
BOBBY: We’re having this conversation, like real life in the flesh on a podcast truly.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: I know how many times have you guys speculated on the pod? Like, when do you think it’ll happen?
BOBBY: Well, I joked with Alex that we did our like predictions for the next five years for our five year anniversary. And one of them–
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: –I made was that- the minor leaguers will be unionized. But I certainly didn’t think that that would happen within like five months from when we did that, not five years.
TREVOR: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: Yeah.
ALEX: Can you, can you take us through a little bit of the timeline for this effort? I mean, to the extent that you’re, you’re able to and you’re able to speak kind of from your own–
TREVOR: Sure.
ALEX: –experience. But I think you know, obviously again, it happened so fast on the outside for all of us. But obviously for months and maybe years there was you know, work going on behind closed doors either in the Players Association with Advocates for Minor Leaguers, etc. So can you kind of zoom out for us a little bit and talk about kind of–
TREVOR: Sure.
ALEX: –what, what that effort has been like?
TREVOR: I think over the past few seasons, few years Advocates for Minor Leaguers has been relatively prominent in terms of highlighting some of the, the poor working conditions that minor leaguers endure. In terms of like, and I think that social media has given this era of players the tool to, to share their conditions directly to 1000s of people. And an Advocate has done a good job of compiling some of these stories in these, these images of, of poor working conditions. So yeah, a couple of years, I think that I got involved very, I mean, I’ve always had my kind of ear to the ground I say. Finger on the pulse of what’s going on. Since I started playing, and my eyes were open because I was a fifth year senior when I signed. I got a signing bonu- my round doesn’t even exist anymore. I got a signing bonus–
BOBBY: Rip to the late rounds, man, we really missed those.
TREVOR: It just barely I was a 22nd, but yeah. I got $1,000 signing bonus. It ended up being like 571 bucks after taxes. And I broke my phone like my first week in Florida. So there goes the signing bonus gone.
ALEX: Oh no.
BOBBY: Oh no.
TREVOR: I, I was 23, I got put in the GCL which was the lowest level of professional of the domestic miserable as professional baseball. And so I was a lot older than a lot of these guys and I lived on my own for five years going to college and stuff and the Twins had just built this brand new facility down in Fort Myers with dorms attached to like the cafeteria and obviously the fields and stuff. So they required all the guys in the GCL to live there. No matter how old you were, no matter if you were married or not. Unless you own a property in Florida which of course I don’t have enough money to buy property in Florida. And it cost $17 a day, I was making 1100 a month. So at the time, my paychecks were $185 every two weeks. It was like, that worked out, we did the math one day worked out to a little over two bucks an hour. And so at that point, I was just like, okay, that’s about it!
BOBBY: I’m just gonna have to change here, eventually.
TREVOR: It’s just, it’s fun. Yeah, so over the course of my career, and seeing guys, who I thought had the talent and the, the ability to pitch or play in the big leagues and bail on Minor League Baseball, because it’s an untenable.
BOBBY: Yeah
TREVOR: They had had a kid and can support themselves or their families, and quit with like, a sub two, and then just be like, Nah, I can’t do it anymore. Or they wanted to do something else in terms of travel and time away from their family, which is part of the game. But definitely, you know, salary and, and your experience in the minor leagues affects us. So to watch us lose talent like that in the game and that’s always kind of affected me. And then I would say in the past, what is it September now?
BOBBY: Yup.
TREVOR: Seven months, I got relatively more involved in the last seven months. In February, I had conversations with Harry Marino, what you guys knows, the Executive Director of Advocates now works for the MLBPA. And Andrew Tripp of Advocates who had been a part of several organizing efforts. And including, like nurses, and doctors, and hospitals that he we talked about, you know how it would look to have two different unions under the same umbrella. Guys going back and forth, and stuff like that, and really eye opening and enlightening conversations about details about that stuff that I hadn’t had before.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: So it’s nice to have get that, get some of my answers, or some of my questions answered. And moving forward, I was a point of contact that tried to have conversations in the clubhouse and open guys up to, you know, it doesn’t have to be this way forever. And, you know, we really do have power and our solidarity and our labor, and we create a lot of value for these teams. And there are things we can improve, guys. These conversations happened over the past six months. And, and then the lawsuit, you know, the settlement happened.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: Which guys who don’t pay attention or care about unionization or the labor movement at large. We’re kind of like, you know, do I get a cut of that? Just like, yeah, every minor leaguers is gonna get a piece of that. So that was an easy, an easy inroad to kind of explain to them, if he wants it more than you know, there’s things we can do. So it’s been fun to kind of be, and especially at this point in my career, I’m a bit older, and I was in rehab, and I was the oldest guy there. With a little bit experienced in the big leagues. My, my influence, and I wasn’t scared to get released or anything like that. So it was easy to have these conversations and my influence, I think, hopefully had a positive impact.
BOBBY: I want to ask you about how much has changed in your time in the minors in terms of being able to have those conversations. So you’re drafted in 2014, obviously–
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: –this is pre Advocates for Minor Leaguers. This is pre sort of like the wider media world really focusing in on some of these things about how little minor leagues are making. How poor the conditions are, these things have really accelerated in terms of how much has changed in the last couple of years. But when you started out and you started to realize is two bucks an hour. You started to realize your signing bonus was gone within two weeks, because you dropped your phone. Like things like that when you talk to other minor leaguers. Of course, guys know this stuff, they know that it’s not their actual value. They know that they’re having to struggle through all of this bullshit so that they can hopefully cash in at the bigs one day. But just how much did that change in the last couple years? And I guess what, what would you credit as the driving force behind why it was easier to have these conversations now? And why this is the right group of players at the right time?
TREVOR: Yeah, I think when I was first drafted, and my first few years in the minor leagues, it was just an accepted part of it. It was part of the culture. It was part of, you know, test your mettle, how much could you withstand and still perform well. And when you made it through the grind, and you got to the big leagues, you had somehow earned it even more than if you, you know, made 20,000 a year and so 10,000 a year. Somehow it was about enduring these hardships, which everybody knew and acknowledged. And it’s just like, it’s part of the game, it’s what you got to do. You’re gonna play in the big leagues, this is it. You got to take this path. So I think over when the Save America’s Pastime Act passed, and the language came out, and that said that minor leaguers were seasonal apprentices and weren’t even employees. I think that that, I remember being on a, on a bus, and I think we’re in Pensacola, Florida, and reading that quote, and being and talking to guys. A guy named Todd andStencil was just laughing, like laughing This is what they think of us, they do not care, they do not care. And that for lack of a better term radicalized some guys and, and then the canceled season in which minor leaguers, you know, initially weren’t even gonna get paid at all until there was backlash about that. And then, you know, a lot of owners ended up paying guys. So I think a mix of those two things really allowed people to just speak their minds a little bit more freely.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: And the fear of retaliation for whatever reason, between 2014 and 2021 has, has dissipated a lot. And which is great. And then yeah, in terms of the timeline, coordination, getting contact info for a lot of guys over the past six months, we’re having Zoom calls probably weekly, over the past three months. And then things really ramped up this year, especially since the summer. MLBPA said that they were willing to invite us in, perfect ideal, great situation. You know, we have their, their resources in terms of their labor lawyers and their comms and their PR and their experience negotiating with MLB. And Tony Clark is, a lot of credit to him about getting the executive committee together for them and unanimous support from MLB players who sent the union cards out. And then it was like, did you get this? Did you get this? Did you get this? Did you get this? And all this conversations, following up with people trying to get cards signed. As soon as possible, you know, we really wanted a majority of guys to sign and obviously, it’s a union for all and we want every single minor leaguer to sign a card. So if you’re a minor leaguer, listen this podcast and you haven’t signed it. Find me on Twitter, I will DM you the link, but I doubt that if there’s someone listening this podcast, they probably had have. And then yeah, we passed the 2%, ask for recognition. I think that MLB did the right thing in acknowledging us and as bargaining is going to be difficult? Yeah, of course, it always is. But the fastest we can get to the bargaining table, the faster that we can fight for a fair de- a fair deal, all minor leaguers and improve a lot of conditions.
ALEX: So you mentioned Manfred announcing that they were going to voluntarily recognize the union. Did that come as a surprise to you? Because I know here on Tipping Pitches, we really, we–
BOBBY: Got got it bro, you should just say it. [58:05]
ALEX: [58:06]
TREVOR: Yeah.
ALEX: So like what was your kind of response to when you, when you heard that?
TREVOR: I think I tweeted it. I said, holy fucking shit! We did it. Like, they said, yes. That’s dope. Like I said, I was at my parents house. And I was talking to them before I headed to San Jose Giants game to the field them. I flipped over my phone and, you know, we have a group chat going. I had like 20 notifications. And I thought, oh, we got a response. You know, because we got to ask for voluntary recognition on Thursday. And this was Saturday. No, Friday?
BOBBY: Friday. Yeah.
TREVOR: I don’t know. Yeah, Friday. Then we asked Wednesday, it had been Tuesday. Anyways, so I flipped the phone over. I was like, oh, we got a response. It was not the response I expected. But elated. Like I said, I was pretty over, overjoyed and overwhelmed. Because I just know how many people and families this will help. People that had trouble paying for diapers who memorize the Walmart return policy in terms of air mattresses, bikes to get around town. TVs, because every 90 days they had to go back and get their money back, so they could save money. And the housing has gotten a lot better because of the house- new housing policy. But there are still conditions to be improved there. And, and I just know that, that this is the first step in a long way. But it was the biggest step that needed to be made. And so so proud to be part of this group of guys who sit up use their voice and now we have a seat at the table.
BOBBY: Trevor, I wanted to ask you about just kind of like what your what your like knowledge and stance of labor history and unions was before coming into this process. Like, did you, did you think about these things actively before you were kind of thrust into these situations? Or was this something where like, you got to the minors, you realize this is gonna have to change. And then the logical next step is the only way that we can really, truly change this is to band together and form a union show solidarity and prove our own working conditions on our own terms by getting a seat at the table. Or did, did you kind of have these designs around unions before this process?
TREVOR: You know, I didn’t. I went to college, and I hadn’t, I don’t know how soon I would have had these feelings in any labor force. But I really hadn’t had a job. I mean, I went to high school, and then to Cal and I was playing baseball. And then during the summers, I was either playing baseball or in summer school, and I hadn’t, I hadn’t had a job until I played in the minor leagues. Well, yeah, that’s true minor league is my first job. And then in the offseason, I worked other jobs. But I think, I didn’t have these, these ideas or these understandings of what the value of labor was, and the value of solidarity and collective action was. And I’m embarrassed to say how long it took me to like to, to get to this realization that, you know, we need to do this together. And he shared experiences throughout the minor leagues. And we shared traumas so are really powerful if we can put them into, to action. But yeah, I think, I think Tipping Pitches played a role in that, in terms of learning labor history, and understanding where we are in the labor landscape and the labor movement. And yeah, tip of the hat to you guys, for sure, I think. It was important in my enlightenment.
BOBBY: That’s very kind. So the reason I ask is because, you know, for most people, like where, wherever you’re from, right, like you’re from California. But where, wherever you from–
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: –wherever you’re from, if you played baseball your whole life, you probably never had to think much about like the economics of it until you experienced that for the first time. So we talk a lot about how, you know, the conversation in Minor League Baseball has always been it’s going to be such a difficult thing to organize, because there are people from such disparate places, playing for different teams at different levels, and they all have different life experiences. So, you know, I was just curious, because I imagine most Minor League Baseball players had the exact same experience as you like, they never thought about what the working conditions were going to be like. They maybe had heard stories about it. But you know, like, I think that’s exactly true for, for the vast mast- vast, vast majority of players, but also of just people in the workforce in general. Like, I’d never thought much about unions specifically. Like I had certain politics by the time I got into the workforce. But never thought necessarily about how those unions would line up with those politics. So I was just curious about that.
TREVOR: Yeah, no, I think you’re exactly right. I think, as a 16-year old, cisgender, white guy from the suburbs, I didn’t, I wasn’t forced to think about, you know, unions and the labor movement and what, how people are exploited. And I’m glad that I came to these realizations, and, and we’ve kind of, you know, made a step towards progress. But, but for sure, yeah, I think, not until I was in the minor leagues, that I, I had that.
ALEX: It’s, it’s really interesting, because, you know, I think we, we talked a lot about kind of the culture around baseball. And how, for, for decades, it’s been largely more conservative than maybe other sports, right? It’s, it’s certainly I think, the one that has the most kind of closed doors discussion. The kind of, the kind of thing that maybe doesn’t bleed out onto the field, right? And, and this feels like an interesting kind of corollary to that, where that the experience of the minor leagues, and seeing these conditions kind of upfront can also be a really radicalizing moment. And an introduction to sort of progressive politics, almost. I mean, do, do you think that teammates of yours were kind of going through the same journey that you were on? Or, or was it more most guys are just kind of heads down? I’m gonna play, yes, I’m aware of the conditions, but it’s not worth, you know, ticking up dirt over?
TREVOR: I don’t know, I think that probably some guys are having the same journey that I had. And probably come of the latter, where people are just focused on, on taking care of their families. And, and yeah, they know that the conditions are bad, but they really don’t want to rock the boat, and they don’t have the time or energy to focus on that. And they’re kind of just, it’s so much stress and pressure and–
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: –in terms of being professional athlete, people maybe don’t have the capacity to focus on all these things and just, just want to take care of, take care of their business and I understand that. So when I was having these conversations, I didn’t try to make it a big political stance, right?
BOBBY: Right.
TREVOR: I just wanted to, to communicate that we have some shared experiences and that 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of minor leaguers before us had the same experiences. And I really hope that 1000s and 1000s don’t have to later on.
BOBBY: Yeah.
TREVOR: And that we can make it better.
ALEX: Was, did you, did you get good reception when you were having those conversations?
TREVOR: Oh, absolutely.
ALEX: Like were, were most guys–
TREVOR: Absolutely.
ALEX: –like, like, yes, absolutely. You know, like, I’m not going to stand up on my own necessarily, but if we’re doing a concerted organized effort, like it makes a lot easier.
TREVOR: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that I had to, to have these conversations loud enough, so that it wasn’t like a one on one secret conversation. You know, other people could hear I’d have it over meal or on the bus or whatever. And people could listen, even if I wasn’t talking to them directly. I kind of said it loud enough so that so people didn’t feel like, am I the only one, you know. If people felt like it was a collective action, we were doing it all together. That was really important.
BOBBY: That’s so fascinating to me. And I have to just commend you for being one of the people to have those conversations. Because it’s terrifying, like, I had those conversations when we were forming my union. And it’s the exact same thing. It’s like, at The Ringer, it’s like, it’s the exact same thing where you’re just trying to keep it macro. Like you’re just trying to say, hey, you know, maybe you and I, the person that I’m having this conversation with, we were able to tough it out. Because you know, I had support from my parents or I was living with family and I didn’t have to pay rent at this time. But the next person that comes along like, like you’re saying, Trevor, like guys have sub twos and they’re dropping out of baseball, like that’s just ridiculous. This is not, this is not giving us the best product for anyone. The guys who are trying to make it, the fans, the teams, and this is not the best process for anyone. And so, you know, I have to we have to have our caps you for having those conversations. Because it takes a lot, it takes a lot of courage to have them in a setting like that, where you don’t know how it’s gonna be received by guys.
TREVOR: I was one of many, there were tons of guys across a lot of levels across a lot of organizations that were involved with Advocates who have done the same conversations, I have maybe more, probably more. There are a lot of guys who’ve done a lot of work and I’m just really happy and proud to be a part of the group. I hope that I had a positive, positive impact. I, I try my best but yeah, there was a group effort.
ALEX: Noted early adopter of the Unionize the Minors shirts right here. I remember you, you slid–
TREVOR: Yeah.
ALEX: –into our DMs and said yo, can I, can I cop one? And we were like, yes! Please!
TREVOR: Send the link. And I, and I walked to the field a lot. And nobody said anything. Nobody looked at me weird. And I weren’t. Yeah, I think that people I mean cod players commented on it, for sure, players notice it. But there was never any like pushback from any team official or anything like that. So thank you guys for the merch. I am hoping, is there a Giants one?
BOBBY: Wow, the first live request on the pod for a new shirt. We always get, we always get like, when you get to make a Yankees one? When you get to make a Rays one? Who would look so good and Royals. Is there a–
TREVOR: Yeah.
BOBBY: –Giants one? Great question. There is not but certainly we’re open to creating one.
ALEX: I mean, I mean, we’re–
TREVOR: The Diamondbacks one is dope.
ALEX: Yeah.
TREVOR: The Diamondbacks one is really dope.
ALEX: That one was, that wasn’t was fun to me. I mean, we’re at this crossroads now where people are asking for other teams.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: We’re like, all right, but they, but they did, they did the thing on the shirt, right? Like that is, that was–
TREVOR: You don’t have to make it anymore these days.
BOBBY: What’s your, what’s your stance on that, Trevor? What do you think we should do? Should we change it to like Unionized past tense? Should we changed it to like, Thank Fucking God We Unionized to the Minors or something like that? Like what should it say now?
TREVOR: Like Unionized to the Minors.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Okay. Okay, I like it.
ALEX: I think you kind of rocket?
TREVOR: That’s so yeah, that’s perfect.
BOBBY: What’s next for you, man? What, what what’s the plan in terms of like your rehab coming back? How, how are things?
TREVOR: Yeah, baseball, play baseball again. I think I’m really excited to pitch. Actually throw tonight in the San Jose Giants game. Which is like I said, a nice full circle moment for me. My family will be there. My parents get to see me. So my old high school pitching coach, some friends I played Little League with. That’d be cool. And then yeah, go into the offseason healthy. Try to get even better, even stronger and come back at age 32 and try to contribute in the best way I can.
BOBBY: Man 32 is like the new 28, you know, come on. You’re good.
TREVOR: Oh, yeah. I’m good, I’m in my prime.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly.
TREVOR: I’m in my prime.
BOBBY: Trevor Hildeberger, thank you so much. Thanks for joining the show. Thanks for sharing your experience. Thanks for helping to unionize the damn minor leagues. This is awesome man. We really appreciate it.
TREVOR: Yeah, yeah, let’s go. I wish I don’t have a bottle to pop. I know we said we were gonna pop bottles should have managed to made a trip to the store for someone [1:10:01]. But thanks for having me on. Like I said it was an honor, pleasure. I appreciate all you guys do.
[1:10:06]
[Music Transition]
BOBBY: Alex breaking news on the podcast.
ALEX: That’s right.
BOBBY: Thank you to Trevor Hildenberger. Thank you for all of those kind words. It’s honestly impossible for me to process the potential that we had any kind of positive effect on the literal unionization of the minor leagues. That’s insane to me. Trevor’s the best.
ALEX: Yeah, give him a foot- we didn’t shoutout his Twitter handle, @t_hildy with a Y, on Twitter.
BOBBY: It’s one of the better Twitter.
ALEX: It is one of, yes it is. Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s definitely one of those Twitter handles where you know, he’s just been called that since he was six.
ALEX: Yeah, [1:10:43].
BOBBY: Thanks to Trevor. The breaking news on the podcast is that Albert Pujols has hit number 697, he has passed none other than the biggest, most famous, most beloved listener of this podcast, Alex Rodriguez. And so you know we’re gonna do right now? We’re gonna take our hats off and we’re gonna stand and we’re gonna have a moment of silence for Alex Rodriguez.
ALEX: Yankees fans would do it.
BOBBY: I’m saluting right now as I speak.
ALEX: I know–
BOBBY: The listeners can’t–
ALEX: –I see you doing it.
BOBBY: –see it I’m saluting.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: The hard salute. Military style.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Marines style.
ALEX: That’s the Joe Biden rest stop salute right there.
BOBBY: Shout out Joe, bro.
ALEX: Shoutout to Joe.
BOBBY: Tweeting out supported the minor leaguers?
ALEX: That’s right.
BOBBY: Making it not cool to support the minor league union anymore. Thanks, Joe. Yeah, shout out Senator Bernie Sanders, who we inched a couple steps closer to having him on the podcast this past weekend.
ALEX: It’s true.
BOBBY: Thank you to all of the people tagging us in his replies saying that he should come on our podcast. To all of those people, you are the foot soldiers of the revolution. You want to do a couple listener questions and then we’ll get out of here?
ALEX: Yeah, let’s do.
VOICEMAIL 1: Hi, Bobby. Hi, Alex. My name is Erica first time longtime. Okay, so I live in Sacramento, I have been in Sacramento or near Sacramento, California for most of my life. And I used to work for the Sacramento River Cats the Triple-A affiliates of the San Francisco Giants. And they were recently purchased or their majority stake was purchased by the Sacramento Kings ownership group, I believe. I want to know your guys’s thoughts on this. How do we feel about the NBA now having a claim in the minor leagues? Will this help? Will this hurt? I just want to get your guys’s thoughts. Thanks.
BOBBY: Erica, thank you for the call. Really interesting question. Something I haven’t thought all that deeply about before but is, is a, is a definite trend in sports ownership. Which is diverse at the diversification of owning minor or major league teams in different sports. This is obviously something that’s relevant as Fenway Sports Group tries to get into owning an NBA expansion team. Those are the rumors out there in the world these days. Fenway Sports Group famously owns Liverpool as well. So it’s international. I think that, it’s probably bad, it’s probably bad for society. For single ownership groups, to have the benefits of being bought into several leagues at once. It’s monopolization of sports, which I think are as if you’re a listener of this podcast, you know, which I think should be a public good. And I think for single ownership groups, especially the, the Kings ownership group, which is not, not very good, hasn’t had a track record of success. But that doesn’t really matter how successful you are. I think it’s bad either way. I think owning teams in multiple sports just makes you like a, a, a robber baron, for lack of a better phrase. I mean, how can you be committed to the betterment of one sport? Or how can you be committed to putting the best product on the field and focusing on what it takes? And how, how hard it is, if people are complaining how hard it is to own these teams all the time? How can you be committed to that process? If you also just have your money pulled around and five other sports at once? It just makes it seem like it’s like they’re stocks, and they shouldn’t be stocks. They’re not stocks. They are public goods that a lot of people have interest in.
ALEX: Yeah, they’re treated like assets that appreciate and depreciate in value. And so as a result, the people who own them, the people whose money it is care about them to the extent that they keep making them money. Which obviously skews the way in which you run your business and it’s worth pointing out that the, the investment company that purchased the minority stake in the Kings. And now the majority stake in the River Cats also has investments in like the Golden State Warriors. The, in Fenway Sports Group, they are invested in European soccer, which is just I mean, that’s getting on the ground floor shit right there.
BOBBY: That’s [1:15:23]
ALEX: If you’re, if you’re a sports investment company, and you’re not in there, like. But you’re right that like, if, if we’re interested in the future, where sports teams and sports leagues actually have meaningful connections to the cities that they are based in and to the communities that rally around them, this is not the way to go about it.
BOBBY: Nope.
ALEX: Have having the control person removed, like 12 steps from the team itself is just not going to be good for actual meaningful investment in the community, and the overall well-being of the club itself.
BOBBY: Yeah, it’s the Silicon Valley-ification of sports teams.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Where you have, just because someone has money, and they invest in a startup, where they give some of that money to get a stake of a company, they just sit on that board. And that gives you a tremendous amount of power. If you sit on all these boards, at the same time, you can line up all of these founders, you can line up all of these sports teams. And you can put them, you can direct them in the interest that you see fit. And often that interest is not widely shared by the public. Often that interest is your bank account and your friends at your country club’s bank account. And I think that that’s pretty shitty, honestly. I think it’s, I think it’s bad. If there’s any kind of silver lining, like I don’t think this is gonna ruin this Minor League Baseball team. I don’t, like I don’t think the experience of you going to the River Cats games is going to be be all that adversely affected. But on a macro scale, I think it’s bad. On a micro scale, I mean, there are things that I think could be beneficial about being bought into multiple sports at once. In terms of like, I think the NBA is probably at the cutting edge of certain strategies in terms of marketing and PR and making your league more attractive to younger people. And even things like recovery and sports science, I think that it’s useful to, it, it would be useful for a sports team to share those strategies across, across different leagues and different sports in different countries and that sort of thing. But I don’t think you need to own multiple teams, in order to be able to conduct that research and share that research. I think you could probably could do that on your own. If you wanted to.
ALEX: Yeah. And I think there’s probably in a perfect world., having multiple sports teams in the same city have connections to each other is probably not a bad thing. Long term, if you’re interested in continuing to build community. If you can create some sort of continuity around like sports in Sacramento or whatever. But my guess is not that all of a sudden they’re going to be like cross promoting each other, retweeting each other’s tweets or shit.
BOBBY: Is that your way of saying that your friend John Fisher’s is, is definitely interested in selling the A’s to Joe Lacob?
ALEX: To Joe Lacob?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Well, it’s why I want the LA–
BOBBY: You kind of pump up the price?
ALEX: It’s why I want the LA Times the owner to buy the Angels, also. Because I think that sort of cross industry–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –monopolization,–
BOBBY: It’s really good.
ALEX: –it’s really, it’s good for brand identity.
BOBBY: I think that’s what Teddy Roosevelt was trying to say.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: He was trying to- so like monopolies bad but monopolies in sports are okay?
ALEX: Right. Like, as long as you have like a common like through line–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –for everything.
BOBBY: That sounds, that sounds right.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: All right, next question. This next question comes from the Slack, comes from Lizzie. Alex, this was a big story on social media last week, where a Tampa Bay Rays fan caught Tristan Casas’ first home run ball. And he held on tight. So Lizzie asks, there’s a Rays fan right now that’s holding on Tristan Casas’ first home run ball. Do you think it’s at the fans discretion or should all first home run balls be returned to the hitter? Famously, this man was kind of a dick about it. He did not want to give the ball back even when employees came over and tried to negotiate with that fan over what he might want in exchange for this, this home run ball. So what are your thoughts? What’s the proper etiquette for how to handle catching someone’s first home run ball? Or any milestone, home run or hit baseball?
ALEX: I mean, I think etiquette and protocol are two different things, right? Baseball has, baseball–
BOBBY: Alright, here we go.
ALEX: –baseball has set it out–
BOBBY: Technicrat Alex have logged on.
ALEX: Well, I’m just say, baseball is the way they’ve set it up is the ball that goes into the stands, is finders keepers, right? That’s kind of–
BOBBY: Wow. The Zach Campbell apologia is jumping out.
ALEX: I know, right? But also is, is that, is that a good thing? Do you know the amount of baseballs we fucking go through every year?
BOBBY: So many baseball.
ALEX: So many baseball.
BOBBY: So you think we should toss him back like Little League?
ALEX: I think–
BOBBY: [1:20:14] get the ball back throw it over the fence to the umpire.
ALEX: I mean, I think you don’t have to be a dick about it. Like I–
BOBBY: That’s a good rule.
ALEX: –just don’t be, just don’t be a dick.
BOBBY: Just don’t be a dick.
ALEX: Yeah, exactly. It’s called–
BOBBY: TBA.
ALEX: –the Zach Campbell rule. Like–
BOBBY: Okay, wait, wait. That’s two Zach Campbell rule right [1:20:35]–
ALEX: Yeah, right.
BOBBY: –means that I need to go on this tangent just, just briefly please entertain.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: So Steve Gelbshuh? Just ether–
ALEX: Ether the man.
BOBBY: –just fucking ether.
ALEX: Yup, yeah.
BOBBY: Where Hampel set himself up for it by tweeting tasty if you need help, tips on how to catch a baseball that’s hit towards you? Because during an SNY broadcast, I think Steve Gelbs was wearing a glove and that ball was hit in his direction and then, and then- go check it out for yourself. We’ll link in the description. Gelbs did it amazingly he ether exactly. What you were saying, don’t be an asshole? Don’t be a dick about it.
ALEX: Right. I mean, our end slide does that Campbell’s mentions that’s part of that practice.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: Right. That’s preventing others from being assholes. But point being like, you don’t need the baseball.
BOBBY: What if he was going to a game after this? The [1:21:26] rule.
ALEX: It’s like, guys no need to stop at the sporting goods store anymore.
BOBBY: It was signed by Baby Ruthie.
ALEX: Good. Sick reference, sick reference.
BOBBY: Yeah, thanks.
ALEX: I don’t- fans, fance are so entitled these days, man.
BOBBY: Yes, the anti fan pivot is finally- I’ve been waiting on this one, dude.
ALEX: It’s about time. It gotten of too easy for too long.
BOBBY: They’re just gonna make a union, fans union? Entitled, entitled.
ALEX: Which has not had anything going on, lately, by the way.
BOBBY: I know, no, no emails from them recently?
ALEX: No emails from them, I’ve been checking out their Twitter page. Occasionally, it’s been like a year since they’ve tweeted.
BOBBY: Dude.
ALEX: That’s really unfortunate, because I’ve been giving them dues for the last year and a half.
BOBBY: Your Patreon money, if you’re listening to this has been going straight to the MLB Fans Union. It sounds like they’re ripe for a hostile takeover by you and I.
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: Let’s radicalise the fans union.
ALEX: That’s right.
BOBBY: They started out as this like reactionary conservative union, union in air quotes. And now we could take them and we could start the revolution through the MLB Fans Union.
ALEX: Do you think that–
BOBBY: We already, we already did the minor leagues?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Now it’s time for the fans.
ALEX: Do you think the AFL-CIO would welcome us?
BOBBY: Listen, brother, I’m already in the AFL-CIO.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So I was just talking to some jpeople.
ALEX: Just pull some strings.
BOBBY: Just like usually, I’ll just send a couple emails.
ALEX: Yup.
BOBBY: Like, hey–
ALEX: I know you have a lot of sway in [1:22:50].
BOBBY: The Executive Director of the Writers Guild. What do you think about getting behind organizing the MLB fans? Maybe like you guys don’t work. You don’t make anything. You don’t get paychecks. Which were things that we were saying in the past. But our, our mind, our third eye was just not open, not yet.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I don’t even, I don’t even know what we’re talking about.
ALEX: I don’t, I don’t either. Baseball’s hidden to the–
BOBBY: Oh, right. So–
ALEX: Do you have takes on this?
BOBBY: Yeah, he should give–
ALEX: Great.
BOBBY: –the ball back.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He should–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –he should give the ball back. It’s not hard.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You had a ball and then you give it to the guy, because he hit it. And it’s his first one. Now, I’m not above extorting Major League Baseball clubs.
ALEX: Oh, 100%
BOBBY: For a little merch.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Some free tickets. So I think, you know, the value of a, of a first home run ball on the open market, obviously, is fluid. And to hit it depends how good they are.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: What can you get back in exchange for that home run ball? I don’t know. Is it Barry Bonds’ first home run ball? Is it Albert Pujols’ 700th home run ball? Or is it Thomas Nieto’s first home run? No shade to my man, Thomas. But I think it’s fine to ask for it on the back like a signed ball by the guy who hit it, obviously. Tickets to at least one other game.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yep. I think that’s fine. Anything beyond that? You’re getting a little greedy. You’re like, can I get a glove? Can I get a bat?
ALEX: Can I take the field with them?
BOBBY: Can I get a signed jersey? What are you trying to play? Just get your signed ball. Get your tickets, maybe free concessions at the game that you go to with those tickets? That would be fine too.
ALEX: Right. You can come- if you need consulting, if you’re trying to work out how to make this negotiation go down. We’re tapped in, this is what the union is for.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly. Please email mlbfansunion@gmail.com.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That, that redirects to tippingpitchespod@gmail.com. We’re like the Scott Boras of the MLB span union, holding out for all, all that home run ball’s worth.
ALEX: So you’re saying that we should treat home run balls like a stock on the open market?
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: We’re trying to predict its value long term. So we might say, hey, this is where it’s gonna peak.
BOBBY: No, no.
ALEX: It’s about to plummet, I need to–
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: –get rid of it now, no?
BOBBY: I’m no tsaying that.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Because you can hold a stock on the open market as long as you want. That’s your right as an American, you can hold as fake stock for a fake amount of money, for a fake company–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –that you never have any contact with. That’s what America is founded on.
ALEX: That is what’s founded on.
BOBBY: But I think you should have to make your negotiation and deal before you leave the ballpark. You can’t walk out of there with that ball.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And if you do try to walk out of there without, without that ball, you should be forced to stay in until you negotiate what you want back from it. These are just the small common sense changes that we would make as Executive Directors of the MLB Fans Union. This is easily one of the most strange conversations we’ve ever had,
ALEX: For sure, but I’m never gonna stop thinking about this now at the ballpark. I’ve never caught a baseball.
BOBBY: Sounds like you’re just not built different.
ALEX: Yeah, I’m not.
BOBBY: Like me.
ALEX: I–
BOBBY: I caught a NoriYuki foul ball.
ALEX: That’s right you did.
BOBBY: [1:26:02] 422 New York Mets.
ALEX: Well, you were–
BOBBY: 2018,
ALEX: Well, that’s not really fair. Because you’ve been watching Zach Campbell’s YouTube channel for a while then to get those tips.
BOBBY: No. Because he famously, I didn’t know who he was until three weeks ago.
ALEX: Yeah, which again–
BOBBY: I like his story.
ALEX: –ignorance is bliss, man.
BOBBY: Ignorance really was bliss. Now I’m going I’m Batting Around having to be asked about how to get rid of him. I’m just trying to enjoy foolish baseball’s YouTube content and nobody else.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: The only baseball youtubers that support our foolish baseball Céspedes Family BBQ.
ALEX: I support the official Major League Baseball YouTube channel. I watch all the videos they put out.
BOBBY: I mean, no bullshit. The abbreviated games are pretty useful.
ALEX: Yeah, they’re, they’re super useful, yeah.
BOBBY: I can’t do, I can’t watch three hours of baseball every night.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: I just can’t.
ALEX: [1:26:49] the highlights?
BOBBY: I have commitments in my life that I need to uphold.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like being the Executive Director of the MLB Fans Union. It takes a lot of time. You’ve never caught a ball?
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: Have you like finessed one? You know, like, have you sat by the bullpen and someone tossed you one before?
ALEX: I think it’s happened maybe it’s spring training once and it’s happened a bunch at like college games I’ve gone to. But those don’t really count for, for our purposes here.
BOBBY: Wow, I kind of, I kind of want to get you one.
ALEX: I know. Me too, dude!
BOBBY: Well, I think we just don’t sit in the right sections to catch balls.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: We don’t sit in the outfield that often.
ALEX: I mean–
BOBBY: We sit behind ump plate.
ALEX: –it’s–
BOBBY: In the nosebleeds. Because we don’t have much money.
ALEX: Not yet, but once we catch that foul ball, or that hom erun–
BOBBY: Oh, once we start getting dues from the MLB Fans Union.
ALEX: That, too.
BOBBY: I was just gonna beat this choke to death because I’m gonna forget about it by next week. So I want to get all the best that I can.
ALEX: That’s okay, I won’t. I’ll never forget.
BOBBY: If you have a good story of catching a home run ball, and negotiating what you’re owed, in exchange for it, please write in tippingpitchespod@gmail.com. Or you can call in and tell the story in your own voice 785-422-5881. I think that does it for this week’s episode of Tipping Pitches, Alex. An eventful one, a very eventful one. For the rest of, for the rest of history. This dumb bit about the MLB Fans Union will be part of the same episode that the minor league union becoming official was it.
ALEX: That’s the only way we could do it.
BOBBY: We still haven’t talked about Taylor Swift’s new album.
ALEX: What is there to talk about?
BOBBY: Yeah, that’s true. That’s a good point. What there is to talk about is that I have some reservations about it.
ALEX: Yeah?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: What?
BOBBY: I just don’t think it’s a good concept for an album. Bunch of songs that never made it onto other albums that you’ve been collectively writing over the last 15 years. Sounds like they weren’t good enough to go on the other albums. I just have some reservations. I’m not doubting her. My faith is unwavering.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: But I think that the, the packaging of it. Not ideal not getting me personally. More excited. If I wasn’t already soaks it. You know, it’s, it’s not pulling in the casual viewer. We need Rob Manfred to touch it up a little bit.
ALEX: Oh, man, we’ll get to that one day.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: One day, that’s gonna be our next emergency reaction pod.
BOBBY: That’s gonna be Patreon bonus episode? We’ve never done one of this. So–
ALEX: No time like pressure.
BOBBY: –just restart a new feed just for that album. Thank you, speaking of the patreon to the five members that we will shout out from the Alex Rodriguez VIP Club tier. Those five members this week. Five of many, thank you to all of you, but specifically to these five this week. Eric, Sam, Ben, Ali, and Mike. Alex, we have a, a Patreon livestream of a baseball game coming up soon. Do you want to tell the people when that’s going to be who is going to be playing in that game?
ALEX: I do. I have all of that information up in front of me right now as we speak.
BOBBY: Wow, what a pro, what a pro!
ALEX: Tuesday, September 20. At 6:45pm Eastern Time, the Toronto Blue Jays are playing the Philadelphia Phillies.
BOBBY: Or making the trek to Philly just like you once upon a time.
ALEX: That’s right.
BOBBY: Hopefully they come out less harassed than you did.
ALEX: Must shame the millennials everywhere. Come watch this with us. We’re gonna be doing the watchalong we did one of these, we did one of these a month ago. We had a blast. This one we are opening up to all of our Patreon subscribers. We want you to come join and hang with us. We’re going to talk, we’re gonna have fun, we’re gonna watch Bryce Harper question mark?
BOBBY: We’re gonna talk about milk, again?
ALEX: Talking about milk again, which we did a lot of–
BOBBY: A lot of.
ALEX: –like a surprising amount of.
BOBBY: This the tight 40 minutes on milk.
ALEX: Uh-huh. We’re going to be watching this via Playback, which is a streaming service, social streaming service that allows you to watch sports games with friends. Go check that out and sign up, it’s free. And in the meantime, we’ll be sending out more information via the Patreon messaging system. So keep an eye out for that. But uh, mark your calendars folks.
BOBBY: Thank you to everybody for listening to this week’s very exciting episode of Tipping Pitches. We will be back next week.
[1:31:03]
[Music]
[1:31:03]
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most, Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya!
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
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