Alex and Bobby discuss how the business of “getting good players” and “having a winning team” is not profitable before picking their favorite Vin Scully moments, and sharing what those moments tell us about Scully’s titanic life, career, and impact. Then, they attempt to make sense of the news and discourse surrounding Fernando Tatis Jr.’s 80-game suspension for PEDs. Finally, they answer some listeners questions about their luck as fans, the pitchers they’d want to see most, and their most unshakable trad baseball takes.
Links:
Juan Soto is good…but what does Salesforce think?
Songs featured in this episode:
Bad Books — “The After Party” • Pavement — “Gold Soundz” • Booker T & the M.G.‘s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and, and, and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about? That’s amazing! That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, after five years of doing this pod, there’s honestly something kind of darkly funny about the fact that we’ve spent all five of those years essentially ignoring news and talking about whatever the hell we wanted to talk about. And then we’re going to start this podcast by talking about news that happened almost two full weeks ago.
ALEX: Right. I mean, that’s the only way we know how, right? If we’re going to talk about news, we’re not going to do it in a timely manner. God forbid.
BOBBY: Famously, news is not something that needs to be learned quickly?
ALEX: Yeah, if your first your last, I think is the, the old adage, right?
BOBBY: We’re gonna start this podcast by talking about Juan Soto being traded to the San Diego Padres. Haven’t you heard? Partially because you didn’t get a chance to talk about it. Because you’ve been out of the United States of America galavanting around the world. And partially because it was put on a platter to us by one Jayson Stark. After the Padres made their blockbuster deal for one of the best baseball players of this generation. A 23-year old, almost surefire Hall of Famer, Juan Soto. Who has already been on a World Series winning team and is already potentially Ted Williams. Jayson Stark, as he does every year after the trade deadline. He decided to ask some executives around the league, questions about what transpired at the trade deadline. Now, I don’t think this is a bad exercise. However, you and I have been talking for years on this podcast about how quoting executives anonymously in large media outlets can have some unintended consequences. So I’m going to read you a couple quotes from this article. The first quote, “I don’t know how they’re paying for it.” The second quote from a different executive, “I can’t understand San Diego’s business model.” So Alex, now that you’re back, being the financial expert that you are, for this podcast, you’re our financial analyst. Can you maybe enlighten these two executives on what finan- on what San Diego’s business model is?
ALEX: I think it’s that the Padres ownership group has a lot of money. Lot of money to burn, you could say, as many rich folks in this country tend to have.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: And–
BOBBY: [2:51] one of them.
ALEX: Right, exactly. And being the billionaires that they are, who own a baseball team, they have decided, why not run this like a baseball team.
BOBBY: As opposed to what?
ALEX: As opposed to whatever the, the rest of the 29 teams in the league are doing? Right, which is like a financial investment vehicle.
BOBBY: Hey, now, please leave the New York Mets out of this.
ALEX: It’s, it this felt like so unintentionally enlightening to like, the way that front offices and baseball executives like think about the–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –sport as it exists today. Like this was the perfect illustration of how spending money to make your team better and and try and win is not necessarily objective number one, on a lot of people’s lists.
BOBBY: Not only not necessarily objective number one is not even an objective–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –for a lot of teams in this league. So I’ll give credit where credit is due. There’s a third executive who says, “I give their ownership group a ton of credit, they financially committed to building an incredible Major League product. So obviously, they’re thinking that if you invest in building a strong brand, the money will all work out in the long run. And I also think that if I owned a team, I’d be thinking it’s fun to win. So what’s the most fun thing we could do for me and our fans to watch? Let’s do that.”
ALEX: I’m getting that tattooed on me.
BOBBY: I’m wondering who that third executive is because it does sound like someone who might be following us on Twitter.
ALEX: You think?
BOBBY: No, I don’t know. There is a fourth quote here as well. It’s unclear if it comes from one of the other three people who’ve already been quoted about this trade. Because all of this is anonymous and it just says that this is one of the execs quoted earlier, so that could refer to earlier in the article or earlier about the Padres. This person says, “I’ll say this about A.J.-“, referring to A.J. Preller, the, the GM of the San Diego Padres. “-he’s one of the best acquires of young talent in our game, and he’s one of the best at being willing to give up that talent to bring in Major League players he has a chance to trade for. And he doesn’t seem concerned about the cost if it makes says major league team exponentially better. It’s a very noble way to operate. Because this job would be a lot safer if you just held on to those players.” I mean, we use the phrase saying the quiet part out loud a lot on this pod.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: That phrase almost doesn’t even do this quote, justice.
ALEX: Yeah. I thought, I think that last part of it is really interesting as well, the idea of job security–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –when running a baseball team, right? And that being something that GMs may factor into their calculus in the offseason in the trade deadline or whatever, right?
BOBBY: Oh, it’s definitely something that they factor in.
ALEX: Right. Because if you push all your chips into the middle of the table, and it doesn’t work–
BOBBY: You gotta leave the table.
ALEX: Right. You’re the one left holding the bag at that point, right? So like–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: I, I really admire what the Padres are doing. I also think that it kind of needs to work. Like it doesn’t have to, right? The Padres will be fine, and their, and their franchise will be fine. And, and long term, I’m sure they will still have millions of fans. But whenever a team kind of does this sort of thing bucked the trend–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –of kind of playing the middle ground that so many teams do these days. It sort of feels like this referendum on like whether or not it’s viable to compete, you know. Not necessarily amongst you or, or I or, or many people in our baseball community.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But I do think it’s reflective of kind of where this how the sport reads this sort of competitiveness. Because if the Padres do this, and it doesn’t work, that’s just one more argument you can make, right? Against trading for Juan Soto, even though any team would be lucky to have them in their lineup and, and should, in theory, do everything they can to get him there.
BOBBY: Yeah, I think because it happens so infrequently. Every time it does happen, it just becomes the only example of this kind of all in chips in the center of the table. Philosophy for running a team. A.J. Preller is just kind of the new Dave Dombrowski. But even Dave Dombroski is no longer Dave Dombrowski–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –comparatively speaking. And now you might say, well, the Phillies didn’t have as much young talent to trade away as maybe the Tigers and the Red Sox did when Dave Dombrowski was running those two teams. And that’s true, and the Phillies have given out big contracts to try to, try to turn their rebuild around after 10 years of not finishing over 500 and not making the playoffs in a major market. But Dave Dombrowski, it’s kind of a lightning rod among people, not who run teams, but people who analyze front office’s and GMs. And how, how they run their teams and what is the best strategy. Because it’s not like he had a lifetime contract. You know, he’s not Brian Cashman. He’s not the kind of guy who is maybe executing the vision exactly how the ownership group wanted it to. Because if he was, he would still be in Detroit. He had a lot of success there. And talk about Detroit, a team that’s still reeling, still hasn’t really figured it out after firing Dave Dombroski over a decade ago now. So I don’t know. It’s, the reason that I was so excited to talk to you about this article is because it’s not just that these executives are sharing the things that we suspect that they think. But it’s that there was some writer, a national writer and Jason Stark, who was like time to go ask them what they think about this. Is it finance- that’s one of the sub headers of this article, is it financially viable to have Juan Soto on your team? It’s kind of like a indictment, a 360 indictment.
ALEX: Yeah, absolutely. And honestly, credit where it’s due to Jayson Stark who, I mean, you know, say what you will about the framing of it all. But got a bunch of executives to go out and question the Padres business model of getting the best players in baseball.
BOBBY: Eeee! Alright, we’re gonna talk more about the Padres because not sure if you’ve heard, Fernando Tatís Jr. is suspended for the rest of the season. We’ll also answer a few listener questions. We’ll talk about some other things as well. Before we do, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I’m Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[9:20]
[Music Theme]
BOBBY: Alright, first things first this week, Alex, the big thank you to our new patrons, Kay and Nathan. Thanks so much for signing up. Before we talk about Tatís, which I think is a massive story, didn’t see coming. And didn’t really factor into having to talk about on this episode. We of course wanted to talk in longer detail about Vin Scully. You were away last week when Vin Scully passed. And so we didn’t get a chance to talk about on the podcast. But this is someone who is tremendously important to you and your fandom I know. And rather than try to shoehorn a tribute into a completed episode of Tipping Pitches last week. I thought that we would, we could wait until this week and actually discuss Vin and his impact on not only our fandoms, but the wider baseball world, and the history of baseball together. So each of us have chosen a moment of Vin Scully moment to talk about why to signify what we think is his impact on baseball. So I’ll let, I’ll let you go first. Anything you want to say more generally about, about Vin? I told the story on Twitter, but I’ll never forget us sitting next to each other in our student newspaper, watching him call his final game. And a bunch of people thinking that we were incredibly weird for shushing everyone shutting off the music and turning the volume all the way up on a regular season baseball game. For a team that neither of us are actually fans of.
ALEX: Yeah. Silence, we’re watching a man’s final miracle before he’s christened the saint.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Like–
BOBBY: Literally.
ALEX: –I like, I mean, urgh! What is there to even say that does justice to the man and his life’s body of work?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like I’ve so many memories of him. Not even being a, a Dodgers fan myself. But he was a part of, obviously, so many of the, you know, important Dodgers moments throughout history, some of which crossed paves with the Oakland A’s, right? He’s, he’s on the call for Kirk Gibson’s iconic homer coming off the bench. It’s a–
BOBBY: Yeah, for you.
ALEX: –real tough beat. But you know, I can’t, I can’t–
BOBBY: Tough beat for negative 15-year old you?
ALEX: Right, yeah. First, me who was, who was not alive yet. But he’s like, he’s woven into these moments so seamlessly that you almost don’t even think about it. Like, I’m like, I knew of that moment for so long. And didn’t even necessarily like, consciously recognize that like, Oh, this is Vin Scully on the call doing this.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: It was just like, oh, is an iconic call of a, of a really iconic moment for Dodgers fans really painful moment for A’s fans. But I feel like that is very emblematic of who he was, which was just like, there, right? Not intruding on the moment. Not trying to center himself in any one call, but simply complement what was going on on the field, right? And that’s what made him so special. He obviously is, is notable for calling baseball games alone, which almost no other broadcaster today should pull off. But he did that, because he enjoyed talking with the fans, not necessarily just talking with another broadcaster, right? Which I love, I love that idea that he was like, no, you guys are, you guys are my buds.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I want to talk about baseball with you.
BOBBY: Yeah. And like knowing how to leave enough space for people to think of their own response, you know.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, he was just obviously the best at then. We’re not the first people to observe that and mine- my choice for his moment. It’s gonna be maybe obvious. But you’re right, in that he’s like, he’s elemental. How do you describe water, air, fire, earth to someone who’s like never experienced those things? If you’re not a baseball fan, it, it would be hard to understand, like the gravity of his, his impact in his career and how wide it spans from like, before the Dodgers even left Brooklyn. To up until when we were getting out of college like that is an unbelievable amount of time, to span and to still be so impactful and sharp, to the very end. And I gotta say like his career, feels like it was divine intervention from the baseball gods if you believe in those things. Because I was listening to a conversation on a, on a Ringer podcast called the press box about Scully and his career after he died. And my co worker Bryan Curtis, who hosts that show, was clever in pointing out that during the 1980s, when he had some of his most famous moments, the 1988 Kirk Gibson home run, being one of those that you’re talking about. He was only calling the World Series every other year. He was only calling it during even years. And so, 1988 with his hometown Dodgers in the World Series, if he had chosen odd years, or if the network had chosen odd years for him, we’d never get that moment. But of course, we have that moment. And it just feels like that was never in doubt. You know, it just feels like that was written into the script, the divine script of baseball. Which I don’t know, I don’t know how I feel about supernatural things. I don’t know how I feel about God in the afterlife. But I do believe that there is some sort of otherworldly force affecting baseball. That’s something that I actually like no bullshit, believe in my core. And he is a very obvious like character in that script to me. And there aren’t that many people who are that important in that script, and he’s one of them.
ALEX: Yeah, he was a person who was so shamelessly himself, and dealt with no shortage of personal trials in his own personal life. Either losing a lot of people who were really close to him over the course of his life. And it’s certainly you, you know, we don’t have the curtain pulled back on, on everything that he said and felt in these moments. But he handled everything with such grace and composure, whether it was on the field or off. And that just feels like an enigma, even today. Do we want to, to get to our moments?
BOBBY: Yeah, I’ll start because mine is, mine is obvious.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: I said 1988, the Kirk Gibson home run. And I mentioned that he was only calling the World Series during even years in the 1980s. How about 1986, Alex?
ALEX: What happened that year?
BOBBY: I’ll tell you what happened, a little rolled up the first baseline. But like you said, you know, you didn’t realize that he was on the call, so to speak. I never realized that that was him. Like that was one of the soundtracks of my childhood, is the Mets winning the 1986 World Series. And I didn’t realize probably until we did a rewatch of that game during the pandemic in 2020 that it was like, oh, Vin Scully is calling this, but he’s the Dodgers announcer.
ALEX: Right.,
BOBBY: But he was also doing national stuff. I, I guess I never really connected like the business of that. And had just how lucky as Met fans, me and my family and you know, my friends who are Mets fans, were that he was the one calling it during that. Truly like surreal and batshit moment. And not just the Mookie Wilson, ground ball, not just Bill Buckner, letting it go through his legs. But that entire ninth inning was complete and total pandemonium, a pass ball to allow the tying run to score. And the winning run to advanced to second base, and then the ground ball in the air. And I think that the reason that I chose this would it’s so in indicative of what he and what other great announcers do as well. But what he did better than anyone else, is that he highlights My favorite thing about baseball. Which is allowing the momentum to slowly build. Just let it do it, just let it happen slowly, just really slowly starting, it’s almost like the frog in water, you know. Before you realize it, you’re boiling, and then the single, or the ground ball up the first baseline, the air, and he’s at full pitch, you know, he’s yelling, and then dead silence, for minutes! He just lets the crowd be what you’re hearing on the television broadcast. And in that moment, after a unforeseeable baseball event. That’s like truly the moment where I feel most alive. Like in the, in the context of things that are trivial and don’t actually matter. Like that, that moment after a wild baseball thing happens, you’re just looking around and you’re like, didn’t know was possible to feel like this. I can’t believe this happened.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I can’t believe baseball. I can’t believe we’re on Earth watching this happen. And, man, if he didn’t do that better than anyone else, it’s just wild.
ALEX: Yeah. The last thing you need is someone to say, and the Mets against all odds. Who you know, we’re, we’re down X games to Y.
BOBBY: And 106–
ALEX: And–
BOBBY: –games in the regular–
ALEX: –[18:55]
BOBBY: –season this year.
ALEX: And the you know, this manager and Davey Johnson or whoever is–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –going to, you know, take home his first ring.
BOBBY: What a nice night of baseball here.
ALEX: Wow.
BOBBY: And the crowd is having a great time.
ALEX: Queens is rocking right now, you know. Like–
BOBBY: And Shea Stadium a full capacity crowd. No, you didn’t need any of that stuff.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And of course, he knew that you didn’t need any of that stuff. And this is such an obvious choice for me. It, I’m obviously not telling anyone, anything new that this is one of the highlights of his career to most baseball fans. But still, it’s a testament to his scope, that he could mean, that he could have a moment that means so much to me. A Mets fan who never went to Los Angeles until he was 18, you know what I mean?
ALEX: Back before the, the pandemic shortened 2020 season when as you mentioned, we were doing our, our rewatches, it was the, it was the, the 2015 game five of the ALDS between the Blue Jays and the Rangers and you, you talked about kind of the moments before the moment, right? The kind of moments that existed between the actual, like, pieces of action that make you feel alive. And I felt like that’s where Vin lived best, right? Was in those kinds of pockets where nothing’s actually happening. right? And he uses that space to forge a sort of relationship with you the listener, right? And lets the actual moments themselves kind of speak for themselves, right?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: He’s really just kind of shading in the lines. He’s not trying to create something and, and force you to witness it because you’re already witnessing what it is. And that’s what what made him so special.
BOBBY: Yeah. What’s your moment?
ALEX: My moment is, my moment is, is not an iconic call of his it’s. it’s not him calling Hank Aaron’s 715th home run. It’s not Koufax’s perfect game, right? It’s–
BOBBY: Although, man his–
ALEX: I, yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: –called that perfect game is wildly good. Or he’s just reciting what minute is, what minute it is in the evening. He’s like, and it’s 946 now, we’re one pitch aw- it’s just.
ALEX: Yeah. Wow. My moment is, is when a few years ago, the Dodgers were playing the, the Padres. And erstwhile catcher Derek Norris was, was at the plate, and he has this really big, big beard on. And we’re in the top of the second inning. It’s a, it’s a 0-0 ball game. There’s like two outs in the inning. And Vin use this opportunity to talk about the history of beards throughout human civilization. Saying he’s noticed that more and more players are kind of sporting the, the kind of scraggly facial hair, right? And it cuts to various players on the field who, who are sporting said facial hair like Justin Turner and, and Brett Anderson and, and a whole host of players.
BOBBY: Yeah. I mean, this is a guy who called a lot of really important Brian Wilson moments.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Legendary beard.
ALEX: I just, I, I want you to listen to a little bit of, of how he uses a downtime in the second inning of a baseball game to give a brief history of beards.
VIN: Stripling from the first beside of the rubber. Strike two pitch to Norris as promptly hit into right field and it lands in front of Kiké for a base hit. So Norris two out single array, and that will bring up Jemile Weeks.
Unknown Speaker:
[22:39] Jemile Weeks.
VIN: There became a time where a Greek grammatist mind the popular prejudice against clean shaven men. Back then clean shaven men will looked as the old maybe a feminine. And then along came Alexander the Great, that’s another story. Alexander the Great was not only great, but he also thought he was the greatest looking man in the world. Oh absolutely! Stripling ready delivers gets a strike. And how Alexander the Great said there is no reason to cover up my beautiful face with a beard. And so all of a sudden, it started to disappear. I love the idea that he felt he was so beautiful. One- one strike, Stripling ready looks over at Norris back to the hitter and that’s lined into left field for a base hit. Norris Goes to second, so back to back base hits with two out and the batter will be Adam Rosales.
Unknown Speaker: Adam Rosales.
BOBBY: He’s just, he’s the original content creator. He’s the first content creator. He could take anything and turn it into content.
ALEX: Literally. I part of what I love about this is he get, he, he opens up the clip by saying, you know, I’ve, I’ve been noticing this trend among baseball players and it, and it prompted me to do a little bit of research. And so over the course of this game I, you know, I kind of want to throw in little anecdotes here and there. And, and you know, talk about the history of beards. And the inning just keeps going. And so he spends the next five minutes with two outs, just talking about the history of beards.
BOBBY: And you know, like when he brought it up, he was like, this is a one out conversation.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know, like this is, this is a two minute or and then nope, little single to right field off roster. If like our man roster like–
ALEX: Exactly. The inning just keeps going. I mean, and it felt so emblematic of kind of how the moment met Vin Scully and kind of not the other way around.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like the inning was not going to end until Vin Scully was done with his story, right? And I feel like there are so many anecdotal moments that I can think of. Where he is spinning some yarn about Jonny Gomes getting attacked by a wolf or whatever it is.
BOBBY: Yeah. Or Madison Bumgarner and his wife saving the, the baby rabbit.
ALEX: Exactly. And that third out, but not come until he’d put the bow on the story. And he was so great at just finding those little ebbs and flows in the inning. To transport you to Alexander the Great and Leviticus. And, you know, the great Shakespearean storytellers.
BOBBY: He sounds like what it feels like to be at a baseball game with friends.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Because like, you know, when you’re at a baseball game with a little group of friends, you’re talking about other things. You’re catching up. Oh, how’s work? How’s this? How’s that? How’s your family? You know, I just listened to this new album that I really like, I’m really digging, like, you should check it out. And then there’s a single up the middle. And then you talked about the game for a couple seconds. And then you switch back. Oh, you know, how’s, how’s our other friend who couldn’t make it to the game? Let’s talk about them for a second. And then there’s a double to the gap. And you talk about how the score is changing. And then you go back to what you’re talking about. And it’s just this continuous, never ending conversation. That is baseball. And I don’t know, he, he lives on forever. Everything he gave to the baseball world, like that’s, that’s never going away. That’s forever.
ALEX: He’s the only man who could make me like, rethink socialism just a little bit, you know.
BOBBY: Should I play that clip?
ALEX: Please play it.
BOBBY: Okay.
VIN: Socialism failing to work as it always does. This time in Venezuela. He’s talking about giving everybody something free and all of a sudden, there’s no foodie. And who do you think is the richest person in Venezuela? The daughter of Hugo Chavez. Hello. Anyway, oh–
BOBBY: You’re sitting there like, well, maybe I was wrong.
ALEX: What’s, what’s also great is like, this only happens in a one man booth.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Because like in a two man booth or something, there’s, you know, there’s maybe an opportunity to cut it off. There’s, you know, the, the wiser, quieter color guy, you know, kind of redirects the conversation or whatever. And because it’s just been, there’s no like, awkward silence.
BOBBY: Do you know who the richest person in Venezuela is?
ALEX: He just, and then goes anyway, and then goes back to calling the baseball game. Beautiful stuff.
BOBBY: It’s so good.
ALEX: Beautiful.
BOBBY: All right, Vin Scully. All right, Alex. Let’s move along. We must talk about the biggest news in baseball this week. It’s that Fernando Tatís Jr. has received an 80 game suspension for testing positive for performance enhancing drugs. I believe he used a substance called the Clostebol. Not sure if I’m pronouncing that correctly, not sure how much it matters. Uhm, what the hell man? Like I know what happened, but I don’t know what happens. So what happens to our man Fernando?
ALEX: How quickly they fall, you know? I don’t know what happened. He’s, he’s a human being. Who made a perhaps poorly informed decision on the way back from an injury. I was watching like the Apple TV+, like pregame show, that night.
BOBBY: Yeah, me too. Presented by BetMGM.
ALEX: Right. Exactly. And it was, it was Anthony Recker and another–
BOBBY: It’s Mets legend [28:40] record.
ALEX: Legend. Yeah, right there. And another, another host there. And they were, they were talking about the, the news, which had literally just broken and, and Recker is like kind of trying to get inside Tatís’ head and rationalize it and say, you know, I kind of you never really know what, what, you know, what’s going on with the guy, maybe he–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –was like, so close to coming back. And, you know, he just kind of needed to, you know, try and give himself that, you know, you’re so close, you really want it and the other host just like completely shuts him down and, and is shaking her head and is like, no, come on. And there’s this, there’s this total like moral panic.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: That happens every time this sort of news breaks, especially when it’s a guy like Tatís who is at the center of the baseball conversation, right?
BOBBY: Yeah and it’s already one of the best players in baseball without steroids.
ALEX: Yes, exactly. There’s the, the conversation turns to like, well, what does this mean about him and his future and the future of baseball? And like, how do I talk to my kids about this, you know?
BOBBY: I mean, like, chances are, you’re not going to have to talk about this to your children.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Frankly. We should say that Tatís followed this news up by releasing a statement through his agent and through the Major League Baseball Players Association, that he believes he accidentally ingested this substance while attempting to treat ringworm. So that was a whole curveball and that he is accepting his suspension because even though this was accidental and not performan- performance enhancing purposes, he’s responsible for what goes into his body, essentially. I’ll also say that somebody named Hareed Alsac tweeted, there is a medicine that treats wearing ringworm. That’s called Clobetasol. Tatís got busted for Clostebol an anabolic steroid. Looks like somebody screwed up they’re Googling coming up with that excuse. I’ll just, just presenting all the facts there. I don’t know who’s right, who’s wrong.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Right.
BOBBY: I don’t know what Tatís’ team did.
ALEX: You’re not passing judgment. You’re just, I’m just–
BOBBY: I don’t know–
ALEX: –asking questions.
BOBBY: –I know anything about ringworm, don’t know what that is. Don’t know. I’m just, just giving everybody the proper information to work with as we have a conversation about this. I don’t know man, do you want to talk about, I’ll give you a choice. You come to a road in the woods, because two directions. Do you want to talk about A. J. Preller comments about this? Or do you want to talk about everybody’s dumbass takes about the contract?
ALEX: Oh, Jesus. These are two sides of the same coin, right?
BOBBY: Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
ALEX: Talking about the contract is just like, it feels like we’re beating a dead horse at this point, right? Like–
BOBBY: I mean, that’s what we’re here for.
ALEX: It is what we’re here for. But like, who, who cares, you know?
BOBBY: Right. If the contract was a billion dollars, still wouldn’t care.
ALEX: Yeah. People are like, I don’t know how to judge the rest of his career now, right? And it’s like, it’s good thing you actually don’t have to.
BOBBY: He’s 23.
ALEX: Because he’s gonna be back next year and still have like, 10 years left on his contract.
BOBBY: Yep! Jury’s still out.
ALEX: Jury hasn’t even entered the building. Like–
BOBBY: There’s not even a case yet. The reason that I asked if you wanted to talk about A. J. Preller’s comments is because they were really forceful. I was surprised at how candid he was about this. Because, you know, even if you feel these things, and even if you say these things to Tatís. It’s pretty rare that you get a GM coming out and laying the blame at the feet of their best player. For whatever reason, because they want to handle things internally. Because they don’t want the player to feel even more maligned by people who are supposed to be on their side when you know that the rest of the media, baseball media environment is going to be doing this work for you anyway. So why do you need to come out and say it? But it leads me to believe that they feel like there’s a real problem there with his behavior and that includes not just the PED suspension, but the, the motorcycle incident from the offseason that has kept him out for this year. When he fell off the motorcycle and broke his wrist. Preller said, I think we’re hoping from the offseason to now that there, that there would be some maturity. And obviously with the news today it’s more of a pattern and something we’ve got to dig into a little bit more. I’m sure he’s very disappointed but the e- but at the end of the day, it’s one thing to say it, you have to start by showing it with your actions. Smell like he was you know crushing him but that’s a call out.
ALEX: Well and this felt like a bit of a snap kind of judgment from Preller, right? Kind of heat of the moment. Clearly feeling a little betrayed and disappointed in one of his three stars that he has, right? Among, among Tatís and Machado and Soto.
BOBBY: Wild.
ALEX: Insane.
BOBBY: [33:43]
ALEX: Yeah. Also would have, would have put money on Machado being the one to draw the ire first from, from the GM but that’s a another conversation.
BOBBY: I guess it’s not an immature thing to do to where it lets go Brandon shirt during spring training.
ALEX: But like, something tells me that Preller will cool down, and they’ll have a talk. And then things are gonna get smoothed over. Because he is arguably the face of your franchise.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And it’s not like you’re going to run them out of town anytime soon, right?
BOBBY: No, Nor should you.
ALEX: Nor, nor should you, right? You’ve committed more than a third of, you’ve committed roughly a third of a billion dollars to this man. And you don’t really want to piss him off. You don’t really want to tank his value in the instance that you are looking to flip him say three or four years from now, right? Like he’s still the dude who is going to lead your franchise to a World Series if that actually happens, right? So like, you kind of have to stay in his good graces. Even if he’s being, I don’t know, kind of an asshole at the moment, right?
BOBBY: Yeah. And I do think he is, I, I do think that like, it’s fair for what Peller said to be the actual organizational opinion.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: He was about to come back from an injury that he didn’t need to sustain from acting relatively irresponsible in the offseason. And that on its own, wouldn’t be enough for you to come out and say, these sorts of things about him. But then, when you combine it with the fact that he just got himself suspended for using a banned substance that was used by like East Germany, in the 1970s, during the Olympics. Like that’s, that’s it is a pattern. And it’s not the type of decision making that you want from a player who doesn’t need to make these kinds of unforced errors. Not because he’s making what he’s making on his contract. But because he’s the face of baseball, and because–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –he’s already one of the best players in baseball. And, I don’t know, I always find it so confusing and confounding, if we’re going to widen the scope of this. When the best players in baseball, use PEDs unless like he’s just been using them his whole career and never gotten popped for them. But like, why was A. Rod. using steroids? Why was Robinson Canó using steroids. These things confound me. And the Padres is an organization, like for everything great that they’re doing right now, man, it’s just incredibly turbulent over there. Like it’s a lot of really good and a lot of really bad going on. There’s like the weird stuff that Tatís, there was like that period last year with like the development of MacKenzie Gore and like that they just couldn’t get him to the majors. And he’s having all these control and injury issues and they’re trading for so many guys and some of those guys are working out and some of those guys are not.
ALEX: Notably Machado and Tatís went at it in the dugout last year.
BOBBY: Yeah. They fired their manager like now they have Bob Melvin your guy.
ALEX: Coded.
BOBBY: But like, it’s all just a lot, just a lot is happening. And I just kind of now that, now that they have Soto, they have Machado. Now that we know how long Tatís is going to be out. And when he’s going to come back, I’d like everyone to just chill. Like, can we just relax, just a touch, just stop doing things?
ALEX: Yeah. I mean, I would be pretty pissed too if I had just put together what looks like on paper, the best team, Southern California has seen in years. And the Dodgers were still 20 games ahead of me–
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: –in the division. I’d be, I’d be kind of, kind of ticked off.
BOBBY: Well, this is like what’s going on with me in the Mets right now too. Where they’re having the best season that they’ve had since 1986. And they’re finally all in, they’re finally doing things right. They’re finally making everyone happy. And at the same time, the Dodgers just have one of the best teams ever. So I’m like, cool. That’s cool. Thanks for that. That’s awesome. And the Padres is just exacerbated because they’re literally in the same division.
ALEX: Yeah, they can’t escape them.
BOBBY: Nope. It does sort of make you understand when [38:02] are like you know, let’s pack it up and try next year. Andrew Freeman has broken my spirit.
ALEX: Yeah, under no circumstances do you have to hand it to the Diamondbacks? But–
BOBBY: But! What are you going to do, beat the Dodgers?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, no, no. Like I’m fuckin Tyler Anderson with a sub-2 ERAs like.
ALEX: Stupid.
BOBBY: Okay, they got Andrew Heaney, Heaney, work in great fuckin Tony Gonsolin and looks like Pedro. Like, what are we doing here?
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: We’re talking so much about real baseball. Again, so where what the Padres are doing? I support A. J. Preller’s insanely chaotic productivity. But I would just like, collectively, everything in Padres verse to just have like maybe half of [38:52], half is in, Not a whole one, just half. On the flip side of this, of course, is our nation’s capital. The swamp, swamp being drained of the good players that were on it. I don’t know, do you have, do you want to share your hot takes about the Washington Nationals decided to trade the best player they have, ever had or probably will ever have in their entire franchise?
ALEX: Not really, they shouldn’t have done it.
BOBBY: That’s the take.
ALEX: That’s the take and it’s not even that hot. I don’t think–
BOBBY: I don’t think it’s hot at all.
ALEX: Like I think it’s actually kind of widely agreed upon among many baseball fans.
BOBBY: I know. You know, you screwed up when everyone’s like, yeah, that was not the right call.
ALEX: Right. Yeah. When you have broadcasters on the broadcast of Major League Baseball’s Marquee Network, saying, what the fuck are Nationals doing?
BOBBY: Yeah. And also like, I know, it’s complicated. And we’ve talked about this on the show in the past by the fact that the Lerners are trying to sell the team right now. And that they have a bad TV dealm and that maybe they don’t want the debt. Or they want to clear some of the debt associated with the organization before that. But it’s just like, again, the fact that the, the business and like financials of these teams is so often, directly. Like, there’s not even lines of bullshit between this now, there’s not even levels to it. It’s just directly reaching from one office onto the field, and affecting what the fans have to experience. It’s really tough and many people have said this, but the Nationals and the Cubs to a lesser extent. But the Nationals are really testing the you win one World Series, you get to do anything for the next decade theory. Like it’s like, all right. We’re really on the vanguard of, of that. We’re really trying to innovate in that field, where we actually may not even have enough major league level players to put on a, on a, on a baseball field. But hey, flags fly forever.
ALEX: It’s also just letting the Lerners cash out now, after stripping this team for parts, just feels like rewarding bad behavior, you know. Like, I mean, sure if you’re the guy who’s buying the team, you get to start with a blank slate, right? [41:23]
BOBBY: I kind of would rather not start with a blank slate.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: But maybe that’s why I’m never going to be one of the guys buying the team.
ALEX: I think that’s the reason.
BOBBY: But don’t you feel like a blank slate with Juan Soto on the slate is better than a blank slate with Luke Voit?
ALEX: Probably, yeah.
BOBBY: No shade to Luke Voit, who’s fine.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’s fine. The blank slate isn’t actually blank, by the way. The blank slate has Patrick Corbin and Stephen Strasburg. You know, like–
ALEX: Yeah, I don’t know. It just feels like in any other industry, if you dismantle the core of what made your business so successful prior to selling it–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –you may not get a very good deal on said business, you know?
BOBBY: Amazon’s looking to sell to Apple, except they’re getting rid of Amazon Prime.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: It’s like, okay, so they’re going back to Brick & Mortar bookstores. Like–
ALEX: Right. Yeah. I don’t know, like you said, it’s such bullshit that all this stuff is inherently tied up together. And that, it’s not even, and that it’s not even obscured anymore, right? Like, you cannot talk about trading Juan Soto without talking about his market value. And whether or not the Lerners are willing to take that on or not, especially when they are about to sell the team. Like these things are inextricably linked. And it’s just unfortunate that we got here, man.
BOBBY: It’s unfortunate that we got here. And also, like, via sensible cover that you have, when you’re an executive, or you’re an ownership group demanding that your general manager execute a plan like this. The extensible cover is that okay, now you’re heading into a rebuild, and you’re going to put together a sustainable winner. And without trading Juan Soto, we’re not going to be able to build a winner around him. Because of the financial constraints of his contract, because the other contracts that we have on our books. And because of the state of our farm system currently, and you know, granted, the Nationals got a big return, it’s never going to be enough for Juan Soto. They’re gonna get probably, in all likelihood, like two or three really good players, two or three really good major league players will come out of this trade. I don’t know what two or three those will be because I’m not a prospect analyst. But just based on what I’ve read in the analysis of the trade. Like there’s some really good guys going back to them. But number one, you have to develop all of those players. Number two, two or three really good players is still not going to make you a good team. And number three, the fans don’t know those good players. They don’t have the memory of those good players hitting a rocket to right field that Trent Grisham can’t fields off Josh Hader and winning you the wildcard.
ALEX: Wow! Trent Grisham just catching strays out here.
BOBBY: I mean, everyone involved in that plays now on the Padres [44:10]. You see that? Hader, Soto,–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –and Grisham well all on the Padres? That’s kind of wild, actually.
ALEX: Yeah, it is.
BOBBY: But it’s just, there are bigger things than expected value, you know? There are bigger things than building a sustainable contender. And we’re obviously not the only people to say that, or not the first people to say that. We’re probably like the last at this point with how long ago this happened. But it just, it just deserves to be said anytime we talk about Soto. And you know, I can’t help but think about the fact that Al Avila was fired last week too. And he oversaw the end of a competitive Tigers team era, along with you know, Dombroski, who we talked about earlier, who pushed all of his chips into the center of the table. And Avila comes in with this selling this idea of building a sustainable winner. We’re going to go with the youth movement. We’re going to do what the Astros, and the Cubs, and the Orioles, and all of these teams that have developed young talent in order to try to build a, a stacked team at the major league level. We’re gonna try to do what they’ve done. And it just hasn’t worked out. And like, it’s, it’s even more notable to me with what happened to Detroit. Because they actually did a really good job. Like they didn’t get a lot of, a lot back for what they gave away, who they traded away, necessarily. But their own picks in the amateur draft, they selected really good, good young players. They even develop those good young players into top 50 prospects. And then they got to the major league level, and it’s just not coming together. And I feel like we don’t interrogate GMs enough about that possibility. That you can do every single thing right, and then because baseball is really hard, it still might not work.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So like, what are you doing to plan against that very, very, very likely outcome? It’s much more likely that that happens, then that the Juan Soto contract is a financial inhibition to the point where you can’t build a good team around him for the next 12 years. Because 12 years is a really long time. His contract will not look that, quote unquote, “bad”, 12 years from now, financially speaking.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And so I don’t know, I’m not a betting man. But if I was a betting man, I would bet on that being an easier path towards contention, again. Than me being able to do better than teams like the Tigers, or the Phillies, or any number of other teams who have said that they’re rebuilding with youth movement. Who just haven’t had those players pan out.
ALEX: Yeah. But I think it doesn’t matter to ownership, right?
BOBBY: Yeah. [46:48]
ALEX: Like, I mean, I mean, it’s obvious. But like, the Tigers are still profitable, right? So if you can lock into a World Series–
BOBBY: Are we sure? In the pandemic, a lot of teams lost money, so- billions of dollars per organization.
ALEX: If you can look into a World Series with a team running a sub 100 million payroll, you’re doing great, right? And I think that’s why the Natio-
BOBBY: But who has done that?
ALEX: I mean, the Rays, they lost, right? But like they got there, right? And that’s–
BOBBY: Wow, you just opened up, Rays discourse can of worms tell me right here
ALEX: I mean, no, I did. And I’m not trying to make the case for it.
BOBBY: You mean that’s the way to get me going?
ALEX: But like, I think that that’s why the Nationals can get away with doing what they’re doing, and then turn around and sell the team. Because at the end of the day, you still get to own a $3 billion franchise, right?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: That’s gonna turn you a profit every year, whether they win or not, right? So rather than take on a team that, that has that Soto contract that, you know, there’s an outside chance that he injures himself in his you know, and it blows up, and then that looks bad in three years. Like, you just get a bunch of prospects, and you just get to cross your fingers and kick back, right?
BOBBY: Yeah, but one the Rays didn’t win the World Series.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And that’s not to say that they couldn’t have. But number two, and more importantly, they didn’t look into that. They hired dozens and dozens and dozens of very, very, very smart people.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Who found inefficiencies within other baseball teams. And that is not what the Nationals are doing. The Nationals are not going to become this analytical powerhouse, like the Tampa Bay.
ALEX: No, that requires investments elsewhere.
BOBBY: Yeah. And it, it also requires like, a decades long, decades, like poor old decades. Like 20-year long process of building out an R&D department and a player development apart- department. That even if you started it now, Juan Soto would be retired before it was as good as the Rays. So that’s it’s irrelevant. Like it’s that, and I’m not even, I’m not even criticizing you for saying that. That’s just what GMs do. They like pointed teams like the Rays and they point it and, you know, we’ve joked many, many times about how the Yankees really just wish they were the Rays. Because it’s way, way more profitable and way less work to actually have to be accountable to your fan base. But I don’t know, for every Rays there’s a Pirates.
ALEX: Yeah, but as we talked about earlier this year, Pirates still turn a profit too, right? So like–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –what does it matter at the end of the day?
BOBBY: Plus Oneil Cruz is cool.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: [49:24]
ALEX: The coolest player in baseball right now, like it’s fine.
BOBBY: Bob Nutting sins are forgiven because Oneil Cruz cool is fuck. All right, let’s take a quick break and when we come back and answer a few listener questions and get out of here.
[49:37]
[Music Transition]
BOBBY: Alright, Alex, couple listener questions and we’ll get out of here. First question, these are all from the Slack by the way. Slack which you can get access to by going to patreon.com/tippingpitches. The listener brought to my attention that I’ve been saying backslash, which is actually the wrong direction of the slash, though, if you put the forward or the backslash, it will take you to the correct place. The backslash just redirects you to the forward slash. This has been URL corner with Bobby and Alex, thank you to the listener for pointing that out to me. First question comes from Dan. Dan says, so when the Biden administration finally gets around to regulating podcasts, and requires a three host minimum, not sure why that would be the case? I guess we’re redistributing the wealth of podcasting to more hosts? Who will be the third Tipping Pitches host? Lots of guests are up to the task. But who is the dream choice for that coveted third microphone? Who is it, Alex?
ALEX: Are we thinking that this is like someone who is already familiar with podcasting? And who’s like, attainable? Or are we just saying like, anyone in the universe who would come on and be a third host?
BOBBY: Do you consider anyone attainable for to be the third co host of this podcast? Like do you think there’s a person on earth who wants to come do this with us every Sunday?
ALEX: I mean, okay, no, not necessarily. But that’s not the question, right? Like, there, there are a handful of people who we did, who we’ve had on before, as, as this listener mentioned, who I think would do perfectly well, just chatting with us every week. But, but the those answers might be too easy.
BOBBY: The phrase is dream choice, the dream choice for the coveted third microphone. Not sure how coveted it is. We do have more microphones here, I can plug them in.
ALEX: Well, I know me, I know you mentioned Alex Rodriguez in the Slack.
BOBBY: Yeah. Well, it’s just the thing is about that joke response is that the reason that it’s not the, the real answer is because it’s just a different podcast, if Alex Rodriguez is co hosting.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like we can’t make fun of Alex Rodriguez, if he’s one of the hosts.
ALEX: Right. Now, I–
BOBBY: Maybe we suddenly can?
ALEX: –I mean, we might need to like kind of delineate some criteria, right? Are we looking for someone who reinforces the ideas that we have? Or do we need someone who can, you know, show us how the other half lives?
BOBBY: Well, I don’t think that we want to abandon what got us here. You know, like all of the lovely listeners of Tipping Pitches, they don’t want us to lose who we are just because A. Rod. is coming aboard as our third co host. Or just because Rob Manfred retires as commissioner and decides to grab the third microphone on the Tipping Pitches podcast. Rob, tippingpitchespod@gmail.com if you’re interested. I think it’s got to be somebody who, like it has to be additive, you know?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: It can’t be like a third carbon copy of you and me because we already got two of those. And so it has to be someone who’s going to add a little spice, but not someone who’s going to change I think the vibe of the show too much.
ALEX: Right. How about like Curtis Granderson?
BOBBY: Yeah. I, you know, it’s funny, he just came into my mind too. I don’t, I mean, I love Curtis. Does he have like strong labor takes?
ALEX: I mean, no, but, but again, like do we want someone who’s just reiterating what we’re saying?
BOBBY: Well, ideally would be like a player who could speak firsthand about some of this shit that we kind of just like.
ALEX: So are we just saying Sean–
BOBBY: Things we know?
ALEX: –Doolittle without saying Sean Doolittle. Like–
BOBBY: It’s probably the right answer. I think that’s probably the right answer it’s probably Sean.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Yeah. Bernie, dude.
ALEX: I don’t know why I thought Bernie Williams when you said that. And I was like, I mean yeah, dude.
BOBBY: He could make us some house music.
ALEX: We do, we do joke about becoming a music podcast. So that’s–
BOBBY: We’re doing more than joking sometimes. Yeah, Bernie Williams too. Bernie Williams, Bernie Sanders. We could just become the Bernie pod.
ALEX: Right. Weekend at Bernie’s, baby.
BOBBY: But they just rotate–
ALEX: Weekend at Bernie’s–
BOBBY: They just rotate in, you know, like, because you know, neither of them want a weekly commitment.
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: This is a lot of work, this podcast.
ALEX: This is a lot of work. Yeah.
BOBBY: So they just do every other one. Do like a rotating cast of co hosts.
ALEX: All right, I think, I think that’s a good shortlist. We’ll start putting out some feelers.
BOBBY: Alright. If Bernie, either Bernie’s agents are listening to this, please reach out to us. Next question. This next question comes from Tom who is an erstwhile Philadelphia Phillies fan. Tough shit, Tom. Mets really put it on the Phillies this weekend. Anyway, here’s one for the gents, thinking about eliminating the AL and NL now that there’s no actual distinction besides history is anathema to me, despite it being a logical idea. What’s your stalwart trad baseball opinion? These have to be, those that you know you hold on to despite all rationality telling you otherwise. What are your trad baseball takes, Alex? I think mine are pretty obvious.
ALEX: Here’s a pretty obvious, I don’t have any, because all of mine are right. So that makes my job a lot easier.
BOBBY: Well, you’re just such a progressive, you know. You’re just so modern.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Woke Alex never has any trad baseball opinion.
ALEX: I, I mean, I don’t have a lot of like, when it comes to the flow of the game, I don’t have a lot of like, regressive opinions that I know are, are wrong. Like, just because I don’t really care. Like I don’t, like I’m pro DH. But if Rob Manfred woke up tomorrow and said, we’re getting rid of it, I’d be over it in like a week. You know, like, I’m just kind of like what’s–
BOBBY: Wow!
ALEX: –like–
BOBBY: Wow! Really?!
ALEX: I mean, no. But–
BOBBY: Because you haven’t gotten over it in the years of us fighting about it. So would you really get over it if Rob Manfred on high decreed?
ALEX: I mean, I’m, I’m very, I’ve won, right? Like, I don’t need to talk about it.
BOBBY: And you sound like you’re over it, definitely.
ALEX: Which is why you bring it up every like three months.
BOBBY: Isn’t a banned topic? I’m pretty sure we’re violating the banned topics right now.
ALEX: Yeah, I think so. I mean, my, my trad takes are like–
BOBBY: You should be able to be in people. Like you should play their injuries.
ALEX: Like every player needs to wear stirrups.
BOBBY: That’s really good.
ALEX: The manager should be wearing a suit and tie.
BOBBY: Suit and tie?
ALEX: [56:04] you know. Yeah, like they did like, you know, in the–
BOBBY: Oh like–
ALEX: –30s.
BOBBY: –in the 1800s?
ALEX: Right. Yeah. Like mine are all aesthetic choices.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Much as I love the, much that I love the manager wearing the, the uniform, right? Baseball is notably, like the only sport in which the manager does that.
BOBBY: So funny.
ALEX: So again, rationally speaking, I know that like, you know, just let them do it. But I’m also like, very, like anti standardization of the game–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –you know, and like ballparks and stuff. Like put towels [56:37] hill, back in the Astros stadium–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –you know.
BOBBY: Despite the fact that many people got injured trying to feel the ball on that.
ALEX: Yeah, exactly. Like bring back the Polo Grounds, which had like a 7000foot left field or something, you know. Like, that’s kind of what I love about baseball.
BOBBY: Can you imagine how mad? Like, you know, there’s been like, a lot of this, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, Alex a lot. A lot of discourse on Mets Twitter about Braves fans being mad at the Mets for getting bloop singles.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And saying that the Mets are lucky, that beating the Braves in a five game series is the Mets World Series, right? Can you imagine how mad Braves fans would be if there was a 700-foot left field in Citi Field? Like they’re mad that the Mets are getting 75 mile per hour exit velocity singles to score runs. But can you imagine if someone hit it 550 feet and it was a fly out? Like that is–
ALEX: I mean, we’re already like, you know, kind of verging on that discourse with the Baltimore Orioles. And they’re–
BOBBY: Verge? I think it’s cool [57:41]
ALEX: I mean, I mean, we’re, yeah, we’re–
BOBBY: Like this is, yeah.
ALEX: –this is anti competitive. Like–
BOBBY: Yeah, this is a circus.
ALEX: Yeah. No, I think it’s good. The Red Sox should double the size of the green monster, you know?
BOBBY: I don’t know if anyone would want to sit up there, really scary. It’s just me, I mean, I already will never sit on the green mon- on the green monster because I’m very afraid of heights.
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah. Me neither. Look at you, looking out for the fan, the little guy.
BOBBY: That’s what I do. You know, that’s what I do. My other trad baseball opinion is that relievers are bullshit, and I hate them.
ALEX: Just in general?
BOBBY: Yeah, starters [58:16] where it’s at? I’m sick of, I’m sick of seeing relievers in the fifth inning.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: I’m sorry. I, I understand it, I know. Third time through the order, I get it. I understand it. I’ve read a lot of smart people talking about it.
ALEX: So again, I know that like the, the, the premise of this question is things that you hold on to despite, you know, every fiber of your being saying that, like, you know, it’s the, the wrong thing. But like so is your, is the assertion that just we shouldn’t have relievers at all? Like, if you’re a pitcher, you should go the whole game?
BOBBY: Like, no. But I feel like it should be assumed that the, that the game is the starters until proven otherwise. That’s the opinion.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Even though I know that that’s not the correct opinion. I know that after a certain point, it becomes your performance for that day is no longer predictive of–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –how you’re going to do the next time through the order or the next time you face the other team’s best hitters. I know all of that to be true. But like, if you’re winning, my, my opinion, truly, it could be boiled down to this. I was fine that they left in Matt Harvey in the ninth inning in the 2015 World Series.
ALEX: Yeah?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Hell yeah!
BOBBY: It was his to lose. He earned it. And, you know, if we’re, I think most Mets fans would be like, they probably should have just pulled him. But I was sitting there being like, I’d rather go down, you know, on the back of the main character of this game, then pull him in and still lose.
ALEX: Yeah, I don’t want my captain jumping on a life raft while the boat goes down–
BOBBY: Exactly!
ALEX: –you know. Like–
BOBBY: Exactly.
ALEX: –people with the helm.
BOBBY: Interesting captain choice. Okay, next question. Kieran asks, If you could choose to watch a game in person by any pitcher in baseball history. Who would it be? Kieran suggested Bob Gibson, and I don’t mean to make it sound like I’m just stealing his answer. But that’s actually my real answer. We did a special episode of the, of the podcast Ringer baseball before it was canceled a couple of seasons go. Trying to answer the question, what is the greatest single pitch in baseball history. Not like single pitch that was thrown one time, but like one pitchers, fastball or slider or curveball. The, the hardest pitch to hit basically, that any one pitcher threw in their arsenal. And Gibson slider was one of the ones that came up and going back and doing research for that pod and seeing his slider. He’s basically like the first person to do that, to throw like a hard slider that moved that much laterally, and looked so much like his fastball, which was also electric. I would just love to see him adjusting to where like, I’d love to see him with modern technology to tell him why he was so good. And how much better could he be? Or you know, I’d just love to go back in time and be like, I just love to go back in time and see the guy who literally forced them to change the whole game.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That, that’s pretty cool.
ALEX: That’s pretty dope.
BOBBY: Pretty cool.
ALEX: That’s a cool thing to, to have on your resume.
BOBBY: Yeah. Aside from that, Tom Seaver. But that’s personal reasons.
ALEX: Yeah. I, I know, maybe we weren’t talking about like specific games. But I’d love to see Dock Ellis’ LSD no-hitter. Or really, any, any game in that kind of stretch of his in the early 1970s. Where he was really one of a kind, right? I mean, and, you know, maybe this even harkens back to kind of your point that you made on this, on the last listener question. But I think it’d be fun to watch a pitcher who can no doubt like, go the whole game and not break a sweat, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like seeing prime Nolan Ryan, just to go out there and throw 150 pitches and strike out 15 guys and walk seven, you know, and go the whole game! Like that’s, that’s insane to me. But to be able to be there in the stands and know that this man is not giving up the ball.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Is kind of, kind of cool to think about.
BOBBY: It’s like video game stats doesn’t even begin to describe Nolan Ryan’s career.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: To the point where in my MLB: The Show Road To The Show, my guy after like 18 years in the majors is like cracking the top five and all times strikeouts. And I’m like, what would it take to get to the top?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You look up the stats, and it’s like, I just did 2000 more strikeouts.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: For the real guy who did this in real life. Not me just playing two hours of MLB: The Show every night before I go to bed.
ALEX: Yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: It’s absurd. I mean, Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez. We’re gonna go guys like not that far in the past. Randy Johnson is the person that I would want to stand in the box against the least. And it’s not even close. It’s not even close.
ALEX: Yeah, agreed.
BOBBY: I would maybe just cry? Like I think I would cry.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Any others? Or are those the those the ones? I’d love to just go back in time just to see Jon Niese one last time. I mean Mike Pelfrey. John Maine? Come on!
ALEX: I mean, I there are plenty of guys from like the 80s and 90s who I’d love to just see, you know. Like pragmatics.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I want to see Kerry Wood’s game, you know. Like–
BOBBY: That’s true, that’s a good one. I feel like pragmatics depending on where you’re sitting.
ALEX: [1:03:32]
BOBBY: By that you could be that entertaining, though.
ALEX: Kind of boring.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’s just like–
ALEX: He’s just spotting the zone and you’re sitting up in the nosebleeds like, did that–
BOBBY: Oh, another–
ALEX: –did that kept the corner [1:03:39]–
BOBBY: Another tapper to second. And he’s at 70 pitches through eight.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Okay, last question. This one comes from Francesca. Francesca says, so I’m thinking about Becca, another Tipping Pitches listener. Being a good luck charm, reminded me of my own personal outlandish belief that the Nationals should have me at every game because I’ve never seen them or the Expos lose the game. 7-0 with the Nats, 3-0 with the Expos. And please do not ask me about the quality of opponents in these 10 games. Doesn’t matter, you win–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –10 straight games gonna see a team, that’s, that’s shocking.
ALEX: Yeah, absolutely.
BOBBY: I’m currently two and four with the New York Mets who are 43 games over 500.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Now I know Alex, you’re not as much of a superstitious fan as I am. In terms of you, you have superstitions and routines and stuff like that. But you don’t necessarily fault yourself for when your team loses as much as I do.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: So I’m curious to hear what your answer is to this.
ALEX: The A’s usually performed very poorly on my birthday. For a while growing up, actually, they, they would either not play on my birthday or they would be, they would be out of town. Which would force me to watch from afar or not watched all as this–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –year, this year they didn’t they didn’t play at all and I felt somewhat spared. But I think if I was in attendance on my birthday, then I might actually be able to bring a little magic to them, you know?
BOBBY: Oh, so you’re, so you’re going the other direction? Like you think that if they were to stay in town, then you would be good luck for them?
ALEX: Well, yes. And if, if I was maybe able to attend. Because I always remember like wanting to be like, oh, like I want to go to the game on my birthday. And rarely was that option available and they would usually lose? I don’t know. I, I like correlation? Causation?
BOBBY: Well, I mean, you have an opportunity to talk to John about this.
ALEX: I do. Yes.
BOBBY: You should tell him this idea.
ALEX: I know, I’ll shoot him an email.
BOBBY: I mean, they’re open, they could use any help that anyone has to offer at this point, so. Okay, I have two, the first one, it’s maybe not exactly what Francesca was asking about, but I feel like it still counts. I’ve told the story on the podcast that I cursedR.A. Dickey’s no-hitter.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Against the Phillies, he gave up one hit, and it was to Cole Hamels, and it was basically because I turned to my sister and said, Wouldn’t it be funny if he gave up this no-hitter? Would it be funny if he gave up his no-hitter to Cole Hamels, and then didn’t give up any hits for the rest of the game? And then that’s exactly what happened. I learned a lesson that day. Still, never seen a no-hitter thrown by a Met because it’s only happened one time. I have however, seen Max Scherzer no-hit the Mets at Citi Field. And then this one, the second one, it’s not baseball, but it fits Francesca’s question a lot better. I think that I’m the reason that the Giants won the 2007 Super Bowl.
ALEX: I’m done. I’m done!
BOBBY: You’re done with what? It’s true, it’s true, ready? In 2007, when the Giants won the first Super Bowl of my lifetime. This is when I was still pretty, pretty big Giants and NFL fan. I made a bet with my mom, who would not allow me to play tackle football in middle school for all of the obvious reasons why children shouldn’t be playing tackle football. I made a bet with her that if the Giants won the Super Bowl, then she would let me play football, she would let me try out for the football team the next year. And this was at the point where the Giants were they were not off to the hottest start. And at the same time, we took all of the Giants merchandise that we owned. And we did a ceremonial washing of the merchandise. We lit a candle put it on top of the washer. And from that point on, this is like gangbusters. Giants took off. They won the Super Bowl. I got to play tackle football the following year. And it was, it was truly I think one of the, one of the original like the err texts of my superstitious behavior.
ALEX: That is the kind of thing that would like convince me.
BOBBY: Yeah, no. I really believed after that. I was like, I mean to this day, the way that I introduced it, I won the Giants, the 2007-2008–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –Super Bowl. This is–
ALEX: Through, through your childhood sports betting?
BOBBY: They- come on! They, that was paying out my bets with small concussions to my small little development, developmental brain. They beat, literally beat an undefeated team, Alex. Like with the greatest quarterback ever on their team.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like how does that not make you believe? How does it not? That’s my answer.
ALEX: Alright, you sold me.
BOBBY: Alright, good.
ALEX: I’m in.
BOBBY: That was my goal, to get you to believe in dumb, my dumb superstitions. Okay, I think that does it for this week’s episode of Tipping Pitches. Not only because I’m tired, and not only because we have a live Q&A baseball stream to go perform. But also because of my dog is barking a lot in the background and we just need to wrap it up. That’s a sign to wrap it up. Thank you to the five members of the Alex Rodriguez VIP Club tier that we will thank this week, we thank five of you every week. Those five members this week are Eric, Tom, Samantha, Drew, and Number One Bullshit Guy. Number One Bullshit Guy. Are you number two bullshit guy or?
ALEX: Definitely top five.
BOBBY: Easily, easily top five. Anything else to leave the people with Alex? Remember, you can sign up for the patreon at patreon.com/tippingpitches. And it will get you access to like I said that live Q&A. If you are a member of the top tier, the Alex Rodriguez VIP Club for $12 a month, where you can also sign up for $5 or $7 a month that would get you access to our Slack and many other fun things. The top tier also gives you access to newsletters. It gives you access to holiday cards at the end of the year. And plenty of other good things that I can’t remember right now. Aside from all that good stuff, Alex, anything else to leave the people?
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: No?
ALEX: No!
BOBBY: No?!
ALEX: No! I’m all, I’m all taked out.
BOBBY: Thanks for listening everybody and we will talk to you next week.
[1:09:51]
[Music]
[1:10:07]
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most, Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya!
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
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