Bobby and Alex talk about an ill-planned graphic on Fox Sports’s Yankees/Red Sox matchup, then discuss the settlement in Senne v. MLB and what it means in the fight for better minor league pay, as well as Juan Soto v. Nationals and how a prospective buyer muddies the conversation. Then they bring on filmmaker Randy Wilkins to talk about his ESPN Derek Jeter docuseries “The Captain” and what it was like telling the story of a favorite player of his, how it changed his perception of Jeter as a human, literally just what Alex Rodriguez is like, and much more.
Follow Randy on Twitter @pamsson and watch the premiere of “The Captain” on ESPN on July 18.
Links:
Fox Sports’s strange 9/11 tribute
MLB settles minor league pay lawsuit for $185 million
Songs featured in this episode:
Good Charlotte — “The Anthem” • Fountains of Wayne — “Stacy’s Mom” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and, and, and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about? That’s amazing! That’s remarkable.
ALEX: Bobby, every so often, a moment comes along that reminds you on why you’re proud to be an American.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm. So many of these moments in baseball history.
ALEX: Many of these moments in, in baseball history, you know, it, it maybe, maybe Election Day? It, it maybe, maybe the 4th of July.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: It, it may be seeing, you know, the, the AL and the NL bridge, the gap at the All-Star game, right? Well, one of those moments occurred last night for me. This was on the, the Saturday night broadcast of baseball in America, on Fox Sports between the Boston Red Sox, and the New York Yankees. And Fox Sports, wanting to remind you–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –of those of the characters in play here, right? Which is the Boston Red Sox, the New York Yankees, and [1:27]–
BOBBY: In case you forgot who was playing–
ALEX: –Fox Sports. Yes. Before cutting to commercial late in the game, they just did a little flyover
BOBBY: Drone shot, very popular in cinema this days.
ALEX: Drone shot, yes. Yeah. Of the, the, the two, two memorial sites for 911. With, with the Boston Red Sox, and New York Yankees, and Fox Sports Baseball Night in America logo superimposed over at all. I just, I mean, I stood up, you know–
BOBBY: And saluted?
ALEX: –and saluted.
BOBBY: Right. Were you watching this game live?
ALEX: No!
BOBBY: I know, you weren’t–
ALEX: No, no [2:12] the question.
BOBBY: –watching this game live. Watching you not watch this game live. This is one of the more, I don’t, I don’t mean to like, blow it out of proportions, but like surreal things that you could open up Twitter too and see yourself tagged in. Because it’s not like that that graphic just makes itself. And it’s not like–
ALEX: Not yet, yeah.
BOBBY: –it’s not, it’s not like, you make the, the graphic and then you also cut to it during the live broadcast of the game. So at least three to five people saw this and thought it was a good idea. Superimposing baseball teams logos onto the 911 memorial.
ALEX: Right. This was not an unfortunate accident where you know, a–
BOBBY: No!
ALEX: –a graphic happens to coincide with an unfortunate scene on the camera. This was someone saw–
BOBBY: Like everything that’s ever happened in Nick Castellanos’ career, it wasn’t like that.
ALEX: Exactly. It’s not like this.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Someone saw these two, I guess, pools sort of endless waterfalls.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm. Infinity pools.
ALEX: In, in, yeah, infinity waterfalls?
BOBBY: I don’t know.
ALEX: Located right next to One World Trade, right? And it, and at night, they’re lit up. So they look like these, these two, these two squares in the ground. And someone said, you know what that’s missing?
BOBBY: Corporate branding!
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I, like, like if an alien comes to earth and asks you and it’s like, so how you guys doing? Where, where you at?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: This–
BOBBY: Is not the worst–
ALEX: –it actually kind of speaks volumes.
BOBBY: Yeah, it’s like kind of maybe the best 10 second clip that you show the alien, to show where we’re at. I’m glad I wasn’t watching a live for a couple of reasons. But mainly because I don’t think I would have even really realized what I was looking at. My brain, as soon as the inning ends, my brain is just like, time to stop functioning. So I don’t think when I first watched the video, I was like, I don’t really know what I’m looking at out of context.
ALEX: Right. It’s a very quick shot, is there, they’re relatively high up and obviously it’s dark. So and there are as, as we noted, a handful of graphics plastered over it. So it’s a little tough to distinguish maybe at first glance.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm. I think that the reason to start the podcast out with this is just to remind people, this is the best Major League Baseball has to offer. Just in case you thought that they, that Major League Baseball and its corporate broadcast partners are Machiavellian puppet-masters pulling strings in dark rooms and, and have the sport of baseball and a vise grip and they’re very competent over there. There’s this just to prove to you. The, the clowns are running the circus.
ALEX: Yep. It’s nice to get that reassurance. Every once in a while, you know.
BOBBY: You just gotta, you just, you have to handed to them.
ALEX: The way, the way, the way it’s kind of framed to is like, you see the Boston logo. And you see like the, the Fox Sports logo. And One World Trade Center is kind of obscuring the Yankees logo. So like, you’re again, you’re not really sure what you’re looking at because you only see this kind of one half of it. And then, and then as they fly past One World Trade, the Yankees logo slowly comes into focus and you’re like–
BOBBY: Oh, God!
ALEX: –ohhh, Go- huh.
BOBBY: Oh, thank you to the fine folks over at Fox for giving us a tailor made called up into the podcast. Alex, I’m excited for this one, later in the episode we’re going to be talking to acclaimed filmmaker and friend of the show, Randy Wilkins, who directed and produced the seven part ESPN Docu series about Derek Jeter entitled ‘The Captain’. We’re gonna be talking about that series. Randy’s directing career and his Yankee fandom and how all these things interact with each other. We’re also going to hit a couple topics that happened in the last week since we talked last including the landmark and groundbreaking settlement in San. versus MLB, $185 million settlement. But before we do all of that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I am Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[6:29]
[Music Theme]
BOBBY: Okay, before we talk about Major League Baseball, settling San versus MLB, I want to talk, I want to give a quick update to those folks who listened to last week’s episode about the Dodger Stadium concession workers 99% Strike authorization vote. We, if you listened to last week’s episode, we talked to Laura Ortiz the Dodger Stadium concession worker, and Maria Hernandez, who’s a union organizer at UNITE HERE Local 11, which is the union that represents the concessions for workers at Dodger Stadium. And we talked about their working conditions and how their CBA had been expired since 2019. And they had authorized to strike ahead of the All-Star game. It came out in this past week from UNITE HERE 11 that they have agreed to not call a strike during the All-Star game. So they will be there, working the All-Star game because of the progress that they’ve made in bargaining in the last week. And I wonder why the company actually came to the table and wanted to make some progress. Some, some real life-changing progress for the first time since 2019. I wonder what forced their hand there?
ALEX: Yeah, yeah. I, it’s a mystery to me. Pressure from labor works.
BOBBY: This another in a long line of a, a long, long, long line of examples of corporations needing to be forced to do the right thing.
ALEX: Right. I mean, as always has, as it always has been, right?
BOBBY: Yeah. And then, we’re a stranger to that in baseball is we’re going to talk about just one second here. But I’m, I’m really happy for those concessions workers, that the bargaining progressed to a point where they felt comfortable not calling their strike. Though I would have, you know, been rooting for them just the same had they called the strike. And I would have, it would have been really interesting to see what the players did.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Candidly, I was, I was curious to see how that played out with, you know, Maria, mentioning how supportive the MLB Players Association has been in this effort. They sent them words of encouragement, they told them that they’re behind them, they put out a statement on Twitter. And they released a statement in the Los Angeles Times to Bill Shaikin. So all signs pointing to the fact that they would have stood behind them in negotiations. But if the weekend rolled around, and the All-Star game was about to start and the strike had been called I, I just really have no idea what would have happened.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So it’s a hypothetical that we don’t need to dwell on for too long because it’s just a hypothetical. So, so let’s move on to San versus MLB unless you have anything else to add about the, the Dodger Stadium concession worker situation.
ALEX: No! Let’s talk settlements, baby.
BOBBY: Okay, let’s talk settlements. Just want to Rob’s favorite thing to do is settle. I don’t, we’ve talked on and off about San versus Major League Baseball, which is a class action lawsuit that has been in the courts for years and years now at this point, it was started by Garrett Broshuis, and a collection of foreign minor league players who many of whom are affiliated with or directly involved in founding Advocates for Minor Leaguers. A nonprofit that we have discussed at length on this podcast. San versus MLB is like slightly different than that. It’s like the legal version of Advocates for Minor Leaguers and what they’re trying to accomplish. But the, the bullet list of what San versus Major League Baseball is, is thata collection of, at this point 1000s of players, which is way more than we had ever thought it was when we’ve been discussing this in the past, frankly. Who had their workers rights violated by MLBs practices in terms of not paying them for travel time. Not paying for them for extended spring training, not paying them for, you know, fall leagues and things of that nature. That the lawsuit alleged was illegally conspiring against these these players to not get paid for that time. And we got news a couple months ago that a judge in California had preliminarily awarded them damages and agreed with their legal case. And now, a couple of months later, this past week, we found out that Major League Baseball decided to settle with this class action collection of 1000s of Minor League Baseball, current and former Minor League Baseball players for a total sum of $185 million. So that’s the news. We don’t know exactly the terms of the settlement, we don’t know how much money is going to what players, under what circumstances. We don’t have a list of all of the 20,000 names of players. What we know is that MLB stole enough wages to be afraid of this court case that they’re willing to just admit and turn over $185 million cash today. And I think that we should just let that sit for a second. Because the value of this league, the value of these teams, has been built on the, the player development and the stars that they eventually turn into. But you need all of these players to make any of that happen. And so the boom of franchise values of TV contracts of all of those things, is literally now admittedly, I mean, I know that when you settle you don’t actually admit fault, but come on. Is admittedly built on the backs have wage theft. And not just like anti trust exempt protected wage theft. Like wage theft that extended beyond what they’re already federally protected to be allowed to do. And that is fucking wild!
ALEX: Yeah, I mean, it was clear as day what was going on here, right? Like to anyone who kind of looked at the nuts and bolts of it. Minor leaguers only get paid during the actual season. And even then, obviously, it’s mostly peanuts. But it’s that kind of six month gap, right? Where you are not necessarily actively playing baseball games, but you’re still training, you are still a member of the organization, right? You are still an employee of whatever team system you’re in. And yet you are just not receiving a paycheck during that period, right? Which is why you see the stories of so many players turning to second jobs, right? Gig work, and the like, real quick, I just want to read the opening the opening lines to the complaint, is that alright with you? “MLB traces its roots to the 19th century. Unfortunately, for many of its employees, its wage and labor practices remain stuck there.” What’s a bar–
BOBBY: Bar–
ALEX: –how are you gonna–
BOBBY: –bar.
ALEX: –disagree with that?
BOBBY: bar? That’s the type of thing that, that’s the type of line that you’d be like, ooh, they put that in a script. For a movie, you’d be like, do people actually say that in court?
ALEX: Right, yeah.
BOBBY: But I guess they do. I’ll, I’ll quickly read the Advocates for Minor Leaguers statement that they put out afterwards. They said, “For decades, Major League Baseball 30 team owners have openly conspired,’ conspired Alex, “to underpaid Minor League Baseball players. Perhaps the most egregious aspect of the minor league Conspiracy.” Conspiracy capital C. “Which is currently being investigated by Congress, is that players are required to provide between six and nine months of free labor each year. Today’s settlement announcement is acknowledgement of an important first step toward remedying that injustice. Every MLB organization will soon have the option to pay minor leaguers outside the quote championship playing season.” And then they go on to say that they’ll hold these teams accountable where they are not doing such. So that’s the other part of the settlement that we should talk about really quickly, which is that it’s not just $185 million, in retrospect to all of the players that this is affected. It’s also a, a reversal of the policy that doesn’t allow teams to pay players outside of the championship window. Which is the basically just the minor league season. So as it currently stands, there is an edict from Major League Baseball that says you 30 teams cannot pay your players for extended spring training, for offseason workouts, for anything that is not the official Minor League Baseball season once it starts and once it ends. And I think that is the part that they like over stretched their pounds on. And what got them in this trouble where–
ALEX: The fact that they just literally wrote some wage theft allowed in the contract for every minor league, like–
BOBBY: Yes, exactly. And so now every minor leaguers contract will not have that, in it ever, all the uniform player contract will need to remove that. And so in theory, the dominoes could start to fall where teams could say, we will pay you 12 months out of the year because we’re allowed to do that now. I don’t know if that will be the case. I would imagine that most of these teams will still act in lockstep. But, you know, we’ve now talked about the Senate Judiciary Committee’s letter about carving minor leaguers out of the antitrust exemption, which would prevent teams from getting together and saying no, we’re not going to pay the minor leaguers. The current reason that you can pay minor leaguers less than minimum wage is because they are considered seasonal employees under the Save America’s Pastime Act, if they’re going to carve minor leaguers out of the antitrust exemption, you would think maybe they would do some sort of repeal of the Save America’s Pastime Act too. Because we’re already in the legislative sphere where we’re repealing stuff or changing things about how minor leaguers is being treated in the save America’s Pastime Act is a huge offender in that respect. So even if this doesn’t mean that the dominoes are all falling quickly, I do think $185 million settlement indicates the severity with which Major League Baseball is treating the situation, how seriously they’re worried about it all falling down around them.
ALEX: Well, and God willing, it, it will.
BOBBY: Exactly.
ALEX: Yeah, this is a, this certainly is by no means a, a resolution to this whole issue. But it is a, a massive step. It’s, it’s a win, both for these players. And certainly for the, the minor leaguers, who now may be able to benefit from this language being stricken from the uniform player contract.
BOBBY: And this last thing I want to say, which is, I’m just very happy for all of the people who have poured so much into this effort. You know, care approaches and the people who are involved in getting San versus MLB through the court system. But also just every minor leaguer who’s had to go through this experience to enrich the 30 billionaire owners of Major League Baseball. And, you know, I think that, I think that there, there are people who when a settlement happens, they’re like, oh, I would have loved to see what would have happened if they went, if this went all the way up. And they took it to the very last minute. But I don’t know how much that always actually helps the people who need the support when they need it. And they need it quickly–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –because of how little they’re paid. So this is like legitimate money going in the pockets of these players.
ALEX: I know, I’ll have to find another lawsuit that’s aimed at toppling MLB’s financial system, to, to focus my energy on in the coming months and years.
BOBBY: I saw some people after this news came out that the settlement was $185 million. They were like, emergency pod time. And I’m just like, if we did an emergency pod about a $185 million settlement that we’re not even privy to the entire documentation of. I don’t know how entertaining that would be, gotta say.
ALEX: Yeah. So I think we’re kind of the losers, now one.
BOBBY: I mean, more power to all the people who were saying we should do an emergency pod. It just goes to show how, how dedicated, honestly, how dedicated fans are.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: To like the economic justice of the workers that are Minor League Baseball players. But I don’t know if we could have made an entire pod out of this because we are not principally involved in this lawsuit. Let’s really quickly before we go to our conversation with Randy, let’s really quickly talk about something that’s very important to me, Alex.
ALEX: Of course.
BOBBY: It’s Juan Soto no longer being on the Washington Nationals, that’s a very important idea that I hold in my head and my heart. News leaked this last week that conversation extension talks between Juan Soto and the Nationals are not going exactly swimmingly. I think there’s probably a little bit of a dramatization going on in terms of the animosity on both sides. When you leak something like Juan Soto rejects $440 million offer, Nationals are now putting him on the trading block, which if you didn’t know that, at this point. Breaking news Juan Soto was on the trading, on the trading block. I think that a lot of people think, oh man, things have completely broken down. But I, I, I tend to think that in most situations, those two divergent paths are on the table for basically every star. Like if, if we cannot get the negotiations to the final finish line, then we will explore trading him, we will listen to calls. But that doesn’t mean that they don’t want him to be there. And that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t want to find an extension that works for him. But I have no inside information on this. If they’re asking him to take a 15-year contract, where the average annual value is still under $30,000,000 in 15 years from now. Like that’s go- going to look like a bargain, probably. For most of the, the length of that contract. I don’t think that it’s, I don’t think it’s gonna get done. So, Juan Soto, you are a New York Mets. All of it–
ALEX: We’ll see, we’ll see.
BOBBY: –to say, Juan Soto, you are a New York Mets.
ALEX: Maybe the A’s have purposefully not been spending money up until this?
BOBBY: Oh, yeah.
ALEX: So that they could, they could just pull a dump truck up to Juan Soto’s house, still good cash.
BOBBY: I honestly, would love that. That would be so chaotic and hilarious.
ALEX: Yup! Yes.
BOBBY: What if he signs with the Pirates? Bob Nutting is like, fine, you want some, you want a big splash and free agency? Okay, here’s 500 million for Juan Soto.
ALEX: That would be great. Except then it would simply justify them refusing to spend any more money elsewhere, right? Well, we paid for the star, we did it!
BOBBY: It’s just on the worst team in baseball for the next decade and a half. I don’t know, a lot of people are talking about trade packages that could fetch Juan Soto. This is sort of like the Invoke conversation as we enter into MLB All-Star Weekend in all baseball circles. I don’t have a lot to offer on that front. Except that if you are one of the teams that potentially has the chance to get Juan Soto there is not a single or multiple prospects that you should not be willing to give up for one Soto.
ALEX: Yeah, absolutely. The only other kind of adjacent detail to this story, right? Is that we obviously talked a couple months ago about how the Lerners are exploring–
BOBBY: Yes!
ALEX: –selling the Washington Nationals.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And these kind of, these two narratives, developing side by side is really–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –fascinating to me. That was I, I think, like last week, or maybe the week before it came out that a, a South Korean businessman, he was in private equity, was potentially interested in buying the Nationals. And he took a tour of the park, right? And–
BOBBY: They just give tours to the park out to people who want to buy the team. Could we get a tour of the park?
ALEX: Right. Yeah.
BOBBY: Like how much do you have to prove?
ALEX: [22:43] tell, right.
BOBBY: How much you have to prove before you can get the tour of the park?
ALEX: Like don’t you have a Wikipedia page?
BOBBY: Like, don’t you think that if we dressed a certain kind of tech bro way we could convince Ted Lerner or–
ALEX: Easily.
BOBBY: –who, whoever is running the franchise right now.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: That we’re like Mark Zuckerberg, not literally Mark Zuckerberg, but that were like, you know, you’re literally from the Bay Area?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: You could calm them you know, enough. Come on. You’re the money.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: I’m the, muscle?
ALEX: So you might Eduardo then?
BOBBY: No, dude! You gonna fuck me over it? No! Can I be uhm, can I be the napster guy> Can I be Sean Parker?
ALEX: Yes, yeah.
BOBBY: I’m currently bankrupt and I need to [23:20]
ALEX: I just, I just find it such an interesting kind of development because the Lerners–
BOBBY: I do too.
ALEX: –have zero long term interest in the Nationals, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But they are actively making decisions that will shape the future of the franchise, right?
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Which is, which is not to say that like that they should be responsible for the, the next owner. But if you are Michael B. Kim, this, who they call it the, the, the godfather of Asian private equity. Which-
BOBBY: Wow!
ALEX: –these [23:56]
BOBBY: New Steve Cohen just drops.
ALEX: But like, if you’re, if you’re Michael Kim, you might be like, hey, like, I’d give him the bag.
BOBBY: Yeah. Or you might be like, hey, I wouldn’t.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And we have no idea, that’s what’s so interesting about it. Like these two things are running parallel. We don’t know if they’re ever going to intersect. We don’t know what the next ownership group wants. Just as likely, it’s just as likely that they don’t want this Soto contract as it is that they do.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And that is an indictment of where Major League Baseball is that any ownership group buying a new team should want Juan Soto to be on it. That’s my thinking there.
ALEX: Yeah, I mean, if you were the, the new owner of a baseball team, what better way to signal that you mean business? Other than literally signing Juan Soto to a lifetime contract.
BOBBY: And not just that you mean business, but what better way to do business?
ALEX: Well that too, yes.
BOBBY: Like you come in–
ALEX: It’s just like, it’s just like a good baseball move.
BOBBY: You come in and not just a good baseball move, it this is like the face of baseball, one of the faces of baseball. You, if you’re buying a team you better be able to market literally Juan Soto. So, if you buy the team and you told the Lerners not to sign him to this contract, you’re a loser.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And Nationals fans should be extremely concerned. If they don’t sign Soto and then the Lerners sell the team? That next ownership group is going to be terrible.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Okay, well, we’re out of time we need to go talk to our friend Randy Wilkins. I’m so excited for you guys to hear. Randy talk about making this seven part Docu series, ‘The Captain’. It premieres on ESPN tonight, as you’re listening to this after the Home Run Derby. And you can get it on ESPN+. And really quickly before we go to that, I just want to give a shout out to our new patron this week, Sophie Ballgame. Thank you to Sophie. Let’s go to our conversation with Randy Wilkins.
[25:44]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Okay, we’re now once again joined by friend of the podcast Randy Wilkins. Randy, what’s up, man?
RANDY: What’s up guys? I’m burning up in this car, like, just so people know, because I know it’s on audio. But, I mean, like, I was having lunch, the service was very slow. So like do my schedule off. And now burning up in his car, Marks forgot to turn the car on before the interview. And I’m like dying here. So hopefully I think–
BOBBY: Would you do like real, like true podcast show, which is like the sound of a car turning on–
RANDY: Yeah.
BOBBY: –like [26:32] podcasts?
RANDY: Yeah, exactly. So I’ll provide all the foley sound effects for you guys throughout the [26:39]
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Slice of life podcast.
BOBBY: Yeah. We’re just like the daily. That’s how we operate over here.
RANDY: Yes.
BOBBY: Randy, I gotta say, man, you’re joining us for much different circumstances than the last time you were on the podcast.
RANDY: Yes. Yes. Indeed.
BOBBY: Last time you came on to draft for the All-GIF Draft. And this time you’re coming on to talk about the seven part ESPN Docu series ‘The Captain’. About Derek Jeter, very important member of your beloved New York Yankees. I want to start by just talking about how the hell did this project come to you, man? Like how like, what was that like for you? How did it land with you? And we’ll get into more about the, the project itself and why we have a million questions for you. But like, take us to page one, like how did this end up with Randy Wilkins?
RANDY: So in June of 2020, I was like everybody else, or mostly everybody else like hiding in my house. So I need to get COVID. And I’d only go outside like to maybe go for a walk and go to the supermarket. I was still in that mode. And one day, I got a call from Spike Lee, who I’ve known pretty much my adult life. Like if anybody knows me, they know that like Spike is a major part of my life and career. And he called me to check up on me so yeah, I was doing? But then he immediately asked me who my favorite Yankee was. And I said Derek Jeter, but I was like, incredibly confused as to why in June of 2020, when there’s nothing going on, why are you asking me who my favorite Yankee is? It’s not like we were gonna go to a game or something like there was nothing going on. And he said, Well, Derek wants to do a documentary on himself. And I recommended you to direct it. And I pretty much came very close to dropping the phone. And, like not being able to speak after that. So, um, you know, I was shocked because one Derek wanted to do a film on himself. Like, that just seemed like the last thing that would ever happen. And the second reason, obviously, is because I would have potentially had this opportunity to tell Derek story. So, um, yeah, I was, especially given the time, like with the pandemic, like really raising at that time, you know, the first wave. I mean, it like lifted my spirits, you know. Even if I didn’t get it, like just to have that opportunity and for Spike to, like, throw my name in the hat. Kind of just, like changed a lot of things for me just emotionally, you know, because you’re in that day to day of like protecting yourself. So, I had a conversation first with Mike Tolan, who was a producer of The Last Dance and he was the EP on this on ‘The Captain’. And then I spoke to Derek on a Zoom. It was the three of us, myself, Derek and Spike. And even then I was like, what the hell is going on here? Like I’m–
ALEX: Insane Zoom room.
BOBBY: Derek Jeter’s iPhone has joined the waiting room.
RANDY: Exactly. And I’m like, before we started, I looked at the both of them and I was like, what is going on? Like, just totally confused and like shock but also excited. And Spike introduced Derek and I, and it felt like I had known this dude for like, 10 years. It was crazy. Like we hit it off right away. I think one of his initial concerns not with me, but any potential director was somebody who didn’t really know baseball, and he was gonna have to, like walk them through his career and the game and all that stuff. Like, dude, man, I–
BOBBY: Clearly he we’re not on Twitter.
RANDY: Yeah, exactly. So I was like, hold up, man, you gotta worry about that. And then, yeah, we went from there. And, and honestly, for like, the first conversation to ever have with him and centered around this project. It was very, like open and intimate, in terms of just like, getting down to the nitty gritty of what this film would need in order for it to be successful. And obviously, with Derek it would be to open up. And he was ready to go, like he knew that we were gonna have to touch on certain things, and that he couldn’t be that like meteor persona- personality that he was with the Yankees. So I know, when this was announced, a lot of people just assumed that it was going to be boring, or how could you have six or seven episodes on Derek, because the only thing they knew about Derek was, you know, this, these terrible quotes that he gave every day.
BOBBY: One game at a time.
RANDY: Yeah, like, all that nonsense. So when I knew, and I was very confident, and I just laughed at everybody, you know, when they were trying to direct the film for me when it was announced, and they were like, oh, it’s going to be this, it’s going to be that, it’s gonna be boring, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, man, the, the bar of expectations is on the ground. So that’s even better for us. So like, when they actually hear him, you know, the responses will be even more, there’ll be even stronger, because they wouldn’t have expected him to be something other than what they knew about.
ALEX: Where do you start with a project like this, right? Because Derek Jeter is, is, you know, both this kind of larger than life figure and also kind of a fly on the wall, right? Like, people feel like they know everything about him, and probably at the same time. Like, feel like they know nothing about him. So like, how do you start, like just digging into this story? Like, were you like, let’s take it back to your, I mean, I mean, the, the documentary series kind of traces his life chronologically. So were you like, let’s start at like, step one, or? Yeah, where do you begin?
RANDY: I mean, the biggest thing that drove this, one of the most important factors was really embracing the fact that he was actually going to be candid and open for the first time. So as a filmmaker, you have to like simplify things. The point is to hear what he has to say, because you’ve never heard him speak like this before. So, you know, chronic- you know, you mentioned the chronological order of the story, I kind of had to do that. Because if I’m jumping around in time, and we’re here, and we’re there, and then we’re over here, somehow, you’re not really paying attention to Derek. And the point is to listen to Derek, tell his side of the story or talk about his life. So we wanted to simplify it as much as possible. That’s why like, the blue background is consistent. Like, we don’t want to have 80 things going on. So your eye goes somewhere else. Or you’re thinking about this or that light or this look. And meanwhile, you’re missing things that Derek is talking about. So that was one of the important tenants. The other thing too, is just we basically use his baseball career as the roadmap to have some semblance of a story structure. So we literally had index cards, on two walls in our office, that just every year of his career, we just had every important baseball moment, whether it was like something that was a big moment or a small moment, whatever we felt was irrelevant. And just like, mapped it out just meticulously for every year. And then we had one section that was for his minor league career. And then the ’80s for the Yankees, and his parents had their own like section. And then when we finished out the baseball structure, then we started putting in personal things that we knew about Derrick. Things that were happening in New York City, larger cultural events. So we started, you know, the, the baseball as a foundation, where we started filling in the blanks with corresponding events, or moments that went beyond baseball so that we can help tell this well-rounded story. And then the last thing we did, because of motion and storytelling is very important to me. Like I don’t treat this like a sports doc. Like it’s a biopic or a documentary on somebody that is incredibly transcendent. So emotions like matter. It’s not just like a Yankee geography, which just like we’re going through his highlights, and that’s it. So for every card that we had that I, that I mentioned, we put a red or blue sticker to tell us if this was like a high moment or a low moment. And we wanted to make sure that those emotional beats were going up and down. So you were kind of going on this roller coaster with him. Because I think one misconception about Derek is that his, his life and career were this fairy tale and it was romanticized to the point that like he was perfect. And that was like not the case, on multiple levels, personal, on a personal level, professional level with the Yankees, all those things Seems like he’s going through a lot of things. There are a lot of tribulations that I think kind of just get washed away because of his success. So we had to make sure that those emotional beats were mapped out to and then eventually, the footage is clean. So where the footage takes you, that’s where you’re going to end up going. But that’s how we started the process.
BOBBY: Speaking of the footage, I wanted to ask you about the archival. Because number one, the archival of the onfield story, which you just kind of gave the roadmap for how you matched up the interviews with the archival of Derek’s career so well, that is just, there, there so winded together beautifully. But then the archival of Derek as a teenager, like his family like that stuff that I don’t know that anybody has ever seen outside of that, that family and that people are going to, I think be fascinated to look at. And just for me, like the shock value of seeing him looks so ridiculously young and lanky, and like a–
RANDY: Yeah.
BOBBY: –moment where he was not like that confident shortstop for the New York Yankees. So at what point, did they turn that archival over to you? And what was your process for like sifting through that and finding the stuff that you really think, hit those emotional beats and added to that story that you’re talking about?
RANDY: Well, I have to give a lot of credit to her sister to Sharlee. She’s the one that’s kind of like, the researcher and archivist for the Jeter family. So she had a lot of it. And she just started letting us know what she had. I think there, there were some things that she forgot that they had in their archives know, as she was going through it. So she let us know pretty early that we had this, yes, we were interested. We said Of course, yes. So she, she just gave us like two or three boxes of VHS tapes. And it was just like all this, like, home footage that we just couldn’t believe that they, that they had. So it obviously adds like a nice layer to it. There is um, I can say this now I couldn’t get it cleared because it’s Michael Jackson. But there’s like film footage of Derek in high school and like some talent show performing PYT by Michael Jackson.
ALEX: Wow!
RANDY: We weren’t, we wanted to use it but obviously with Michael Jackson, like, you know, that would have been the whole budget to get the song cleared.
BOBBY: Yeah.
RANDY: So–
BOBBY: And you clear a couple of good ones too. So you–
RANDY: Oh, yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: –you clear something–
RANDY: Yeah, exactly.
BOBBY: –like this?
RANDY: Yeah. So yeah, just in terms of like weaving it. We just knew that it was important to humanize Derek, you what I mean? Like, it’s, it’s kind of like what you touched upon about, you know, you have this perception of Derek and you have this vision of him and what you’re used to seeing him like star shortstop for the Yankees, but he’s a human being. And I think when you’re seeing him as a kid, see him as a two-year old, you know, see him struggling, see the draft from his perspective at home, it automatically humanizes him. So we just wanted to use it in that way, where again, it’s like emotional words, those beats where, you know, you try to weave in anywhere, there’s some good things, but also some challenging things on the way so that he is more accessible. It’s like everybody feels like, you know, he has a story that a lot of people can connect to.
ALEX: I on, on the topic of that perception. I mean, I know you I’m, I certainly spent a, a lot of time with him. And I don’t know necessarily kind of your perspective on, on him coming in to the documentary. But you’ve, you’ve talked about, rightly so just this kind of warped sense of who he actually is, right? Where his, his, his baseball feats and flaws are, are underlined, and the kind of nuances to his personality on and off the field. Really get sort of glossed over, right? And I’m, I’m wondering if there was a moment like for you, personally, that sort of broke this perception a little bit. Like whether it was on camera or off camera. Was there, was there a moment where you’re like, Oh, he’s just a, he’s just a dude, right? He’s like–
RANDY: Oh, yeah!
ALEX: –like maybe maybe, like getting his Starbucks. And he’s like, Oh, someone put the wrong milk in this one, you know, like–
RANDY: Oh, yeah, there’s a very, very, very, very specific moment. And it was on their Zoom that I mentioned, it was the first time he cursed. And I was like–
BOBBY: Yeah. Oh, I was–
RANDY: Derek Jeter–
BOBBY: –shocked when I saw that in the doc.
ALEX: Yeah.
RANDY: Dude, I couldn’t believe it. I could not believe it. Like I honestly, I know I made a crazy face when he curse. Because I was in such shock that he like used profanity. I thought this dude had, like, the cleanest language, didn’t even know what a curse word was, you know what I mean? And it also was revealing of like, his, his reputation in a lot of ways. That this dude wouldn’t even curse. And he cursed on a Zoom. And I couldn’t believe it. And then I was like, oh, yeah, just it was like a regular guy. Like he’s a baseball player. You know what I mean? And but before that, like I just didn’t, I knew that that was my intention. But I didn’t know what it looked like. And as soon as he cursed like it just, it just completely destroyed that perception that I had of him prior to speaking to him. You know, like I knew that there was way more to him that he didn’t share. Like, I was one of the few fans, I guess that like, believed that there was way more than what he was presenting to the public and I understood why. But hearing him curse for the first time, I was like, Whoa! Like this is he really is like a regular dude that happened to play baseball on a very high level and won a lot of championships.
BOBBY: Yeah. And I think that’s interesting in and of itself, like I, I had a little bit of a sense before I started watching the doc, just from having such a close relationship with CC that he has these little quirks. Like, he’s funny, he has individual relationships with guys. Like he has a, a stronger personality than he would lead on and that’s intentional. But I think that when you actually see it on the screen. And as you mentioned, Randy, putting him in front of such a plain background and just letting him talk straight to camera, straight in the center of the shot, pretty close up for most of it. I think really, even if you’re not like a, a Jeter guy, like I’m sitting here interviewing you wearing a men’s hat right now, I’m not a Jeter guy. You know, I think that it’s like it’s demystifying but also adding a certain mystique as you like, go back and so- and, and remember like time is where you just didn’t think about the fact that that, that this is now the person that you were watching make all of those highlights. Do all of those things, have that sort of like, blessed Ron at the beginning of his early career where it seemed like nothing could go wrong. And then for a while there, a lot of stuff did go wrong. I’m, I’m curious how you balanced sort of like imagining who would be watching this stock. Like there’s, there will be a subset of Yankees diehards, who will be watching this. But then there will also be people who kind of resent the Yankees, who kind of think Jeter was overrated, Jeter wasn’t that good. Why- like you alluded to, why are we getting a seven part documentary about Jeter? He’s not that interesting. So, so how did you kind of balance those two things in your head? Or did you just kind of let the story dictate?
RANDY: Well, you embrace it. I mean, you go into it, saying that this is going to be the audience is going to be inclusive. So you’re not making this just for diehard Yankees fans, you’re making it for, more people that hate the Yankees. You’re not just making it for baseball fans, you’re making it for people that also don’t know a thing about baseball, but they know who Derek Jeter is, and they’re curious to learn more about them. You know what I mean? You have to go in embracing the fact that this audience has the potential to be global. And in doing that, I think that that helps dictate what’s important in the story. You know what I mean? They go hand in hand, they’re not really mutually exclusive. They have to, they have to be in harmony, harmony with one another to achieve both goals. So you want to tell a great story. But you also want as many people to watch it as possible. So I was very aware of people’s perceptions of him. I knew that people were going to be like, he’s overrated. I mean, we hear it all the time about him. But it was like, but that’s fine. The point of this film is to show to you that he’s more than how you rate him as a baseball player. The point of the film is to reveal as much about the man behind the jersey, as you know, go through his career highlights when he was wearing the jersey. So it’s, it’s meant to, it’s not a sports doc, in my mind. Like it’s about a baseball player. But it’s as if you were watching a film on James Baldwin. You know what I mean, for Sylvester Stallone. Like, whoever, whoever was great at their respective fields in industry. It’s the same thing with Derek Jeter. So you’re trying to break that perception, but you’re also trying to embrace it, because you can use it to your advantage as a storyteller. You know what I mean? So we wanted it to be global. We didn’t want to get too far in the weeds were non baseball fans were like, What is this? Like I want to understand this. Why are you like so focused on baseball? And we also talked about things that challenge people. And I’ve said like multiple times, they’re talking about Derek Jeter, in a lot of ways we’re talking about ourselves. Because he was, like kind of just hits on different parts of our culture, you know, whether it’s intentional or not. And I think that even talking about his struggles right away or introducing, like, starting to feel more talking about his parents instead of him, automatically puts them in a different sphere, you know. And nobody realizes or expects us to talk about his parents first. He’s just like, let’s just, let’s just establish who he is through somebody else. And I think people get it right away. And then you’re like, kind of off to the races. But we wanted it to be global. Like I wanted this to be inclusive. This is not just for Yankees fans, so that would be obnoxious, in my opinion. So, yeah, I, I, and I don’t think too, is like my fandom is not a part of this film. You know, like–
BOBBY: Not at all.
ALEX: Yeah.
RANDY: –I don’t, I don’t treat it that way. Like I’m a filmmaker and storyteller first. Like I’m a Yankees fan after that, like off the, off camera and all that stuff. You know, I’m a Yankees fan. But beyond that, I’m not letting that dictate the story that I’m telling.
BOBBY: It’s also like, it’s, it’s not that important, right? Like they do, they just win. But that’s what happened.
RANDY: Yeah!
BOBBY: Like they literally–
RANDY: Yeah, yeah!
BOBBY: –you know what I mean? Like it’s–
RANDY: Right.
BOBBY: I’m, the first time I saw the Boogie Down Bronx native Chiron. I was like, there’s Randy. He’s just, that’s, that’s Randy’s fingerprint right there on the screen.
RANDY: Oh, okay. All right. I’m very happy that you mentioned that. Because ESPN Charly gave me a get rid of that like, 10 different times.
BOBBY: Nah!
ALEX: No!
RANDY: And I was like, No, never! It’s not happening. Like you can, like, it’s never happening. That’s what it is. I’m from the Bronx, I have way more authority than you do. This is what it is. And then eventually, they stopped giving me that note, so I appreciate it.
ALEX: I, I, I have to ask, because we here at Tipping Pitches are, I guess you could say, fans, enthusiasts have won Alex Rodriguez, right?
RANDY: Yes.
ALEX: Who is at, at a certain point in Derek’s career, a very central character, right? This kind of counter, counter weight to him. I mean, I’m, I’m wondering, first kind of how you navigated telling their relationship. Which I think has been really kind of like, massively blown up, right? As they can’t stand each other, they’re, you know, there was bitterness and resentment throughout their career. But also just like, what was Alex Rodriguez like? Like is he, is he a human? Like, is he real?
RANDY: Uhm, alright this is a tough question to answer. He is real. But he’s very image conscious.
ALEX: Yeah.
RANDY: And I’m not saying that as a critique, or a compliment. I’m just saying it strictly as an observation. I think he is very image conscious. I think that he is very aware now that what he says can lead to certain reactions. But with that said, I do think he spoke his truth about many things, especially the ones relating to Derek. I think the way he sees things is what he told us. Now I’m sure there are some things like to will probably keep to himself, like Derek did like anybody does when you do something like this. But I think he spoke his truth. And he was comfortable speaking on it. And he was honest, like, even with the Esquire stuff, and the quotes, he was like, I still stand by it today. Like nothing has changed. That’s how I feel about it. So I, I respected him saying, yeah, man, that’s how I felt. I still feel that way. And he’s not trying to like sugarcoat it because we’re doing something or Derek Jeter.
BOBBY: Yeah.
RANDY: So I appreciated his voice. And I appreciate him being willing to be a part of it, because he could have easily say, no, I’m not doing this, like you’re gonna vilify me. In fact, there is a moment during the interview, where he, he and I, like kind of got into it. And, you know, he was like, oh, I know, I’m gonna be the villain in a film. And I said, hold on for a second. I told you, I told you before we started, there is not one villain in this story. I told everybody speak their truth, whether it’s critique with Derek or complimentary with Derek, you know, I have a job to do. So this is not, this is not Jeter propaganda, you know. Feel free to, to speak how you feel about certain things, whether it relates to Derek or not, good or, or bad. And I was like, I don’t know you. And I really don’t know Derek. So I don’t have a side in this. The only side I’m on is the film. Nobody’s trying to vilify you. Not trying to make you look like a bad guy. I don’t know you, we’re never going to speak again after this interview. You’re just, like, basically, like, cut it out. You know what I mean? Like, don’t, don’t play this, like, woe is me thing. Like we’ve been doing great in this interview. And you’ve been honest, like, why are we like, changing course? So I think like, we both settled down after that, and then we like, continued the interview. But as everyone will see, Alex is treated fairly, you know, like, we wanted to humanized Alex too, you know what I mean? Like, I think that there are some perceptions of Alex whether they’re true or not that cloud the way they view him. So we wanted to make sure that like, again, he was treated like everybody else in the film. We didn’t want him to be the villain. He doesn’t come across as a villain. I don’t view him as a villain. He just did certain things. And Derek responded. And that’s, I mean, it’s like you said with the Yankees victories, that’s what happened. You know what I mean?
BOBBY: Yup!
RANDY: It’s like we’re not making it up. So we tried to, we tried to be respectful and conscious of everyone’s truth and included in the film.
BOBBY: Yeah, the, the thing that I felt while watching it, I’m not gonna spoil anything for people because I think the interviews are really amazing. And I can’t wait for people to watch them, particularly Tipping Pitches listeners who have an act of investment in all things Alex Rodriguez Incorporated. But I think that it struck me as them talking directly about things that have been talked around so many times.
RANDY: Yeah.
BOBBY: That things that have been passed through so many filters, whether that’s the New York Post, the New York Daily News, Page Six, social media, Reddit. Like all of these things, where these conversations have happened around the periphery of these two people. And in the film, it’s just them talking about it, directly being asked about it directly in a forum that they expect it to be asked about it directly and came ready to answer it. So I’m not gonna give it anything away for people who haven’t seen it yet. Obviously, it, it will trickle out throughout the, the entirety of the Docu series just because their careers are so linked together. But I wanted to ask you really quickly because this is Tipping Pitches, again, without spoiling anything for this episode. But, you know, Derek Jeter comes up to arbitration. And he’s thought of as like, the, the good boy who does everything right by the organization. And that situation, while people maybe weren’t paying attention to it as much as they might now with the way that we talk about players and their salaries and their value to their organizations. Was maybe a little bit more confrontational that people knew at the time? Can you talk about Derek opening up about that stage of his career before he became the multimillion dollar shortstop that we all know him as?
RANDY: Yeah, I mean, that was the first time in Derek’s career where he was told he wasn’t good enough, in the eyes of [51:38] wasn’t worth a certain value that he had placed on himself, you know what I mean? And I think that that set him on a path of not totally trusting the organization. So I want to make a distinction. Like the Steinbrenner family and Jeter are incredibly close. He was close with his teammates, and the fans. But I think that there are multiple moments throughout his career, where he in the front office did not see eye to eye. And when I say the front office, it’s Brian Cashman, they had a rocky relationship, at times, it’s mended now. While he was a player, and Derek talks about it in the film, you know, it’s the arbitration is kind of what told him, alright, this is a business and like certain people in this organization, are going to tow that business line. And they’re not going to value me the way that I value myself. And that, I think that that kind of sets the tone with certain people in the organization moving forward. And that’s something that a lot of Yankees fans, a lot of baseball fans just did not know. Because they did a great job of hiding it. But yeah, that arbitration was this the starting point of a very, I wouldn’t say tumultuous, but definitely like, a conflicted relationship with Derek and the front office for a very long time.
BOBBY: Yeah, I mean, it’s a leveling like, it’s, it’s where shit gets real, you know, like, you don’t have the excuse of you’re on your minimum contract anymore, or your pre-arb. Like now is where we actually start to have the difficult conversations. And I think it’s a nice microcosm for the rest of the, rest of the film, honestly, that–
RANDY: Yeah.
BOBBY: –it’s such a humanizing moment to see someone get fucking pissed off about something that he should be pissed off about.
RANDY: Right. Oh, yeah. And he doesn’t run away from it in the film, like, it is very clear that even to this day, he’s not happy about it. And I’m sure there’s still a, a big piece to him that’s very happy that he won. You know what I mean? Like, that’s another victory that people won’t necessarily connect to Derek but he didn’t forget that he won that arbitration case. And you know, he had one up on the organization for a while.
ALEX: Randy you’ve been incredibly generous with your time sitting, sitting there in a, in a hot car talking to- talking to us.
RANDY: Yoh my, my friends are like outside the car like waiting for me and they’re like ahhh. Let’s go guys.
ALEX: Alright, alright.
RANDY: No, it’s my pleasure guys, I love, I love you guys. I love the podcast. It’s my pleasure, it’s my honor to be here.
ALEX: Wait can you, is there anything that’s like, coming next for you? I mean, I’m sure what’s coming next for you is like a long sleep, right?
RANDY: Yes. Yes.
ALEX: Like, just getting into bed. But, but is there anything on the horizon that you’re, that you’re excited about? Or are you kind of like, like, one step at a time? Like, let’s just, let’s get the Jeter doc out there first.
RANDY: Uhm, I was like that until recently, when I was approached with a project that I’m close to signing with. Like, I kind of want to wait to see the reaction and see like what else comes. But I’m, I’m pretty close to one that I’ll just say people will find very interesting. So, yeah, I mean, I, I tried to write it out as long as possible with this one. I, I kind of feel like I can’t pass it up. So I am going to take a nap at some point. I am going to get some sleep. And then I’m going to take a little break and then, you know, all the I’s are dotted and the T’s are crossed, then I’ll jump into something in the fall. Yeah, we’ll see what happens. I’m close, but I haven’t signed anything yet. So I’m still like, I’m still a free agent for now. So I can, you know, try to take advantage of it as much as I can.
BOBBY: Randy Wilkins, thank you so much, sir. ‘The Captain’ premieres tonight, if you listen to this on Monday, the day that it comes out after the Home Run Derby, and then every Thursday for the next six weeks after this. Thanks for coming on Tipping Pitches, it’s great to see you again. And we’re so happy for–
RANDY: Yeah.
BOBBY: —all of your success. And I’m so excited for people to get to watch your project.
RANDY: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Not just now but in the past and thank you. Thank you.
[55:58]
[Transtion Music]
BOBBY: Okay, thank you so much, sir Randy Wilkins. You can follow Randy on Twitter if you don’t already, @pamsson, p-a-m-s-s-o-n. Randy’s been on the podcast before as we mentioned. But his life has blown up man and all if you don’t follow him already. You don’t see, you haven’t seen all of the photos that he took with all of the participants in this documentary. It’s been wild to watch. I’m so excited for people to watch ‘The Captain’. Because I mean, I’m not even trying to be in the bag for our friend here. I don’t like the Yankees, I don’t. I’d never really was much of a big Derek Jeter fan. And I, I got the chance thankfully to see the first few episodes of this. And, it’s, it’s really, really good. So–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –I highly encourage people to go check it out. Like I said, the first episode premieres tonight, if you’re listening to this on Monday, after the Home Run Derby on ESPN and ESPN+ and you can get on ESPN+, I think on-demand as the episodes come out. So and then every Thursday thereafter that you can, you can find this schedule if you just Google it. So big shout out to Randy, incredibly cool to watch.
ALEX: The, the Tipping Pitches to ESPN Docu series pipeline is, is in full swing, baby!
BOBBY: We’re doing, we’re, we’re part of the, the ESPN machine right now.
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: I’m so glad that you asked about Alex Rodriguez. Not only because you had to.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Because we are who we are. But because it gave me a very easy transition to shout out the Alex Rodriguez VIP Club members–
ALEX: Eyyy!
BOBBY: –of the Tipping Pitches Patreon. Thank you for signing up for our top tier, Peter, Drake, Alex, Sam, and Matt. Anytime we get a an Alex in the Patreon I’m like, is that you?
ALEX: Dude–
BOBBY: Just making furners.
ALEX: [57:45] the numbers a little bit?
BOBBY: Well, I thought maybe, you know because you have the Alex group chat with every person named Alex in the world–
ALEX: Oh, right, yeah.
BOBBY: –like one group chat.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I thought maybe you just asked a bunch of people to sign.
ALEX: I did, I did drop the link in there.
BOBBY: Anything else to add for the people this week? Do you want to sing the praises of our karaoke performance last night? It was pretty good.
ALEX: It’s pretty good. I, I lost my voice about halfway through, could not hit those high notes anymore.
BOBBY: There are a couple of photos of us singing karaoke that looks suspiciously like we look while recording podcast. Sitting on couches, sitting across from each other.
ALEX: Microphones and hand.
BOBBY: What tier of the Patreon for us to upload the videos of us singing–
ALEX: Wow!
BOBBY: –Thnks fr th Mmrs or Stacy’s Mom?
ALEX: Honestly, we’re a podcast for the people. Just, just–
BOBBY: Drop it in the Slack?
ALEX: Just drop it in the Slack.
BOBBY: Wow!
ALEX: Just release the tapes.
BOBBY: You’re setting an expectation that I’m not sure that I’m willing to meet.
ALEX: I know, yeah, we should maybe discuss this off air.
BOBBY: Thanks so much to everyone for listening. Thanks again to Randy. And we will be back next week.
[58:52]
[Music]
[59:01]
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most, Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya!
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
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