Bobby and Alex discuss questionable algorithm-generated sports predictions, then give an update on corruption in Anaheim, try to make sense of Tommy Pham and Joc Pederson’s fantasy football dust-up, and take stock of Gabe Kapler’s national anthem half-protest. Then they bring on PUP guitarist Steve Sladkowski to talk about the parallels between a touring musician and the minor leagues, why baseball fans like punk music, the cravenness inherent to baseball ownership, the state of walk-up songs in baseball, and more.
Links:
Follow Steve Sladkowski on Twitter
Listen to The Unraveling of PUPTheBand
“What Are The Odds?” On Effectively Wild
Gabe Kapler’s blog post about the national anthem
Tipping Pitches on Patreon
Get Tipping Pitches merchandise
Songs featured in this episode:
PUP — “Lionheart” • Rush — “YYZ” • R.E.M — “Losing My Religion” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and, and, and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about? That’s amazing! That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, I’d like to start this week with a self-indulgent hypothetical. Is that sound okay to you?
ALEX: So in other words, a hypothetical that we usually start the podcast off with?
BOBBY: Correct, exactly.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: So I was listening to effectively weld earlier today, the interview that they did with N. Venu, CEO and founder, Kelly Pratt, hope I’m pronouncing her name right. This has been much discussed in the baseball world in the last couple of days. This, this company N. Venu who provides the predictive statistics on the Apple TV+ broadcasts. Which those broadcasts, you’ll remember, were a big talking point in the offseason that they were going to exist. Now, without getting into the whole controversy over N. Venu and the stats that they provide. Long story short, some, some baseball, people are questioning the validity of those stats and probabilities that they provide on the broadcast. It got me thinking, whether listeners of this podcast could put together a predictive model for what you and I are going to talk about. And you know what? I thought about it for a couple of minutes. And I came to the conclusion that it wouldn’t be that hard.
ALEX: Nope!
BOBBY: –for listeners to do.
ALEX: It’s like those Twitter accounts, right? There’s like, there’s like AI generated, like, drill tweets in AI generally. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, ours would be pretty easy. I mean, we also a couple of years ago, we had a we had a listener who made a bingo board for for each episode of Tipping Pitches. And that was really just one step removed, right?
BOBBY: So is this a good thing or a bad thing? So on one hand, you know, glass half full, we give the people what they come here for.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: They know what to expect, and we provide [2:29]–
ALEX: No sur- no surprises.
BOBBY: Exactly, we’re like, in and out. You know, what’s on the menu, you might be able to go off menu if you really are a hardcore fan, and you’re gonna love it. It’s going to be consistent. No matter what in and out you go to. But on the other hands, are we too predictable? Do we need to mix it up? Do we need to, do we need to spend 25 minutes before our interview with PUP guitarist, Steve Sladkowski. Talking about the tOPS+ of Eduardo Escobar, just to keep people on their toes.
ALEX: Right, but is, would that be like in and out introducing like a Southwestern Burger, you know–
BOBBY: Like a hotdog?
ALEX: –something like, right. Like something that no one asked for. And is so far out of their lane, that the people are like, hey, stick to what you know. Maybe Shake Shack introducing a mushroom burger.
BOBBY: Or Shake Shack–
ALEX: Hypothetically–
BOBBY: –introducing something that’s under $15. This is a pro in and out podcast.
ALEX: If you, if you couldn’t tell.
BOBBY: Okay, so, so now we’re, we’re finding where we are is what you’re saying.
ALEX: Yes, I think we are. Before we move on entirely from that, that topic that you mentioned, N. Venu, and, and the, the absolute grilling that they received from one Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley.
BOBBY: Our friends.
ALEX: Our good friends.
BOBBY: I listen to that interview, I listened to that interview. And I was like, damn, that’s how you do a real interview. Something that we could never do here.
ALEX: Right. I don’t really think we, we grilled Steve, to the extent that [4:10]
BOBBY: Maybe Steve feels differently?
ALEX: That’s true. We, we did put him on the spot about Walk-Up Songs.
BOBBY: Anyway.
ALEX: But, I guess I’m just wondering, are we sure that that company exists?
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: Like I obviously they exist to an extent where they have a website and there is someone who can literally go on and and make podcast appearance, right? They, they exist to the extent that Apple and Major League Baseball said, yes. We–
BOBBY: Are you suggesting–
ALEX: –we, we will–
BOBBY: –that she was an actor? Kelly Pratt appearing on Effectively Wild had been hired to act on behalf of whatever N. Venu is out to do.
ALEX: Not necessarily but–
BOBBY: Kelly Pratt crisis actor theory begins today.
ALEX: Like I feel like I’m, I’m gonna get in trouble for, for saying all this. Like I don’t want to actually slander them and say she’s Elizabeth Holmes. But like, you know–
BOBBY: So I, I, I know what you’re getting–
ALEX: Has anyone seen inside the black box?
BOBBY: No, the answer is no. And repeatedly on that effectively wild interview, they tried to not even see inside the black box. Just confirm that there was something inside the black box.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: That was something other than the man behind the curtain, just pressing a number for what the probability of a hit on any specific at bat might be.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And I don’t know if she effectively proved that there is anything inside the black box [5:36] that? I don’t know.
ALEX: I mean–
BOBBY: It all makes no sense if you haven’t heard this interview, or if you haven’t, at least followed along in a Twitter thread of what happened with N. Venu last week. But we will link to in the description where you–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –can go listen to this full interview. Or you can read Ben Clemens piece on FanGraphs. Like I said, up top, there’s a company that is providing real time probabilities of certain outcomes on Apple TV+ broadcasts. And that company has come under question from a lot of the baseball Sabermetrics community. Because some of their predictions are not holding up to, some of the most well-known and time proven things that we know to be true about baseball. Like it–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –being a better it being better for you when you’re ahead in the count, which is pretty widely accepted.
ALEX: It’s also, I think, maybe worth pointing out that this is largely designed to aid betters, right? This is not them trying to just come up with a different model to make predictions and projections. But it’s intended to be used for someone who may want to bet on outcomes pitch a pitch about to a bat, etcetera.
BOBBY: Or, or the reverse to sell to a casino and then you bet against this thing.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Which it would have to be a little better at doing its job for, in order for it to, a casino to want to purchase it, but, yes. It’s fascinating, I recommend, if you liked this show, and maybe you’re not even a big stat head, I still recommend going to Effectively Wild in listening to this. I imagine a lot of people who listen to the show. I already listened to it Effectively Wild, they’ve been doing it for so much longer than us. They’re of course one of our inspirations for starting the show. But go check it out. if you haven’t. Baseball is fucking weird, it’s in a weird place. Major League Baseball, the company and the exhibition of Major League Baseball games are in a strange strange place.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Okay, we have a few things to talk about before our interview with like I said, Steve Sladkowski from PUP. Where we had a great conversation with him about, about baseball. The state of MLB ownership, which he has a lot of thoughts on. The Toronto Blue Jays, the life of touring musician, how it compares to maybe Minor League Baseball? And a lot of other things. So please stick around for that. But we’re going to talk about Gabe Kapler. We’re going to try to make sense of Joc Pederson and Tommy Pham and ultimately fail. And of course, we have to give a status update on our friend Arte Moreno. But before we do all of that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I am Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[8:09]
[Music Theme]
BOBBY: Before court reporter, Alex, shares the latest in the Angels bribery scandal. We have to say a quick thank you to all of our new patrons this week. A reminder for you, you can sign up for our patreon, at patreon.com\tippingpitches. Where there are three tiers that provide you various different things at each tier. All of them provide you access to our Slack, where we have been discussing things such as the N. Venu interview slash scandal where we’ve been discussing the Tommy Pham-Joc Pederson altercation, the very good New York Mets. Anything that you might want to talk about, you can talk about the Tipping Pitches Slack. You can get access to that on our Patreon. Thanks to new patrons. Emily, Jhon, Jhon, spelled differently. Eric, Nat, David, and Peter. Alex, last week we spoke about the Mayor of Anaheim, which you might not expect to hear about on a baseball podcast. Except for if that Mayor allegedly accepted bribes to sell land around one of the 30 Major League Baseball team stadiums to a company headed by one of the 30 Major League Baseball owners. Well, not 24 hours after we released that podcast when Harry Sidhu, the Mayor of Anaheim. He stepped down amidst the FBI investigation. Your, your comments? How does it feel to take down a Mayor on a podcast?
ALEX: Right. What is, what is the the R-squared on this, right? What’s the correlation? It’s not low.
BOBBY: Can we contract N. Venu to figure that out?
ALEX: Oh man, I mean, we saw this coming right? As soon as–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –a Mayor ends up at the center of a, a federal corruption probe, headed up by the FBI. I, I feel like you, you’re kind of done, you’re kind of toast.
BOBBY: Yeah. Even if you, even if your name is clear, the just the blowback from that makes it very hard for your political career to ascend.
ALEX: Right, exactly. As, as we mentioned last week, the the deal around Angel Stadium. Which has involved Arte Moreno buying the land, and plenty of acreage around it from the city has had, you could say a, a tumultuous few years.
BOBBY: Yeah, turbulent.
ALEX: And it has, it’s a, it’s a negotiation that has, has lasted across, I think three mayorships at this point. Harry had to make himself stand out, of course by by garnering the corruption probe, right? But following Mayor’s subdues decision to resign on Monday. The, the Anaheim City Council voted unanimously on Tuesday to, to stop the sale on–
BOBBY: [11:04] the sale.
ALEX: On Wednesday, Arte Moreno and his unknown partners? Really just, really just the team, the Angels came out and said, we’ve agreed at this point, maybe it’s probably not in the best interest for us to make a deal with a Mayor who just resigned? So they stepped back from $325 million deal, which is obviously a, a blow to Arte Moreno himself. And, and maybe not many other people.
BOBBY: I don’t know, it seems like a blow to all of those people who love to fanboy over the battery in Atlanta, or Wrigleyville in Chicago, that seems to have a constituency. But when you look at it from the beforehand, it really only seems like it benefits one guy.
ALEX: Right. And obviously, a, a central tenet of this deal was going to be the affordable housing that was going to have to be built on this property. That was at the center of an Attorney General’s probe into it. The, the California, you know, Department of, of housings probe into the deal.
BOBBY: Probes above replacement, dude. The Angels aren’t first in many things, but they are first in federal and state level probes.
ALEX: Yeah–
BOBBY: That might even be true–
ALEX: [12:27] up, up their game.
BOBBY: They might even be getting outpaced by the Dodgers in another category.
ALEX: Yeah, I know, seriously. All that to say, the, the deal is on hold for the foreseeable future. Given what it took to get to this point. I, I don’t think we see, I, I don’t see an easy path to a deal coming anytime soon.
BOBBY: Any next to deal is just going to be under so much scrutiny. And the price of it is going to be so intensely watched. Because, of course, people think that the reason that the price was what it was, is because the Mayor was, it’s unclear who, who’s really thought to be at fault here. But for my understanding of the reporting around the situation, the Mayor was the one who is sort of soliciting the bribes. And whether or not, you know, the underlings of the sale, we’re happy to give it, it’s sort of impossible to tell from the outside. But that would lead you to believe that the $325 million that this land was sold for is not the fair market price?
ALEX: Right. Which it, I mean it, it’s worth pointing out that there were no other bidders because it was never put on, on the market, right?
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Like, like they, they came to a deal before they even technically started negotiating, which I don’t know. That’s, hey, I’m not well-versed in local politics around urbanism. And affordable housing and such in real estate.
BOBBY: But you’re not that unverse.
ALEX: But not too unverse. Not unversed enough to, to not have that raise a red flag.
BOBBY: Yes. You in the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Okay. That was sort of a coda to our conversation about this last week. If you missed that we, we spent a, a good amount of time talking about this last week, because I think it’s pretty indicative of the weird financial state that baseball teams, the corporations that our baseball teams find themselves in. Where it actually makes sense and is necessary for a team to potentially bribe a Mayor. And for that Mayor, to then have to step down. It’s just weird that this is the world that we live in. But I think it’s important to understand when we talk about the broader economics of the game as we do so often here.
ALEX: Yeah. And, and you know what? We’ll be taking suggestions for who to turn our attention to next, you know, where the. the Tipping Pitches political machine as well in [14:58]–
BOBBY: Are you trying to solicit a bribe right now? Are you trying to solicit a bribe? Do you want to find yourself like Harry Sidhu?
ALEX: Can I plead the fifth on that one?
BOBBY: Parody, parody, parody, parody. Okay, so, so from very complicated real estate deals, to something even more complicated, fantasy football, Alex. I don’t know where to start with this. If I’m being totally honest, Tommy Pham slap Joc Pederson, supposedly over a, a disagreement in fantasy sports. This has been, this has kind of held the baseball Twitter’s sphere captive for the last five days. But also makes no sense to really delve into on a podcast. Because we don’t know either side of this, but it felt weird to just go by without mentioning it, it’s been so present.
ALEX: I think the fact that we can’t make heads or tails of it suggests that it might be the most important thing we talked about this. Forget bribes, forget real estate. Did Joc Pederson run afoul of the fantasy football league rules? It’s unclear. From his perspective it doesn’t seem like he did, right? But, but as you mentioned, prior to a game between the, the San Francisco Giants and the Cincinnati Reds, Pham and Peterson were in the outfield–
BOBBY: Raise your hand if this was the thing that taught you that Tommy Pham was on the Cincinnati Reds. I’m raising my hand right now. Anybody else? Thank you. Please only raise one hand if you’re currently driving.
ALEX: I, I like the implication that there are folks out there who would raise both hands to answer that question.
BOBBY: Maybe you just, you really did it [16:42]–
ALEX: Nearly have no idea.
BOBBY: [16:43] like me, me. It’s me calling me.
ALEX: Look over here. After, after some sort of verbal dust up. As you mentioned, Pham slapped Pederson, Pederson did not retaliate. It does not seem but, but both teams sprinted towards the outfield to assess the hullabaloo. And, and after the game Pederson came out and, and gave a very lengthy explanation.
BOBBY: Right. Almost too detailed.
ALEX: Right. The, the clip itself is three minutes long of him talking about what happened. He violated some rules, potentially, maybe with regards to stashing players on his bench and using the injured reserve as a means of doing so. Look, I’m, I’m in no position to make a judgment. Anyway, in this situation.
BOBBY: I know.
ALEX: My biggest might- yeah?
BOBBY: Yep! If the player was on injured reserve in real life, then you can put them on injured reserve and fantasy. If he was not, you can. That’s the rule. No matter what the precedent in your league was, that should be the rule.
ALEX: I mean, it’s it- right. I mean, it feels like if, if the player was eligible to be put on the injured reserve–
BOBBY: Then you can do it.
ALEX: –then you can probably do that. Yeah.
BOBBY: If the system that you’re using like Yahoo or whatever, let you do it, then you can do it. That’s–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –my take.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: It seems like Tommy Pham probably shouldn’t have slapped Joc Pederson for this. But you know, people put a lot of money. We talked a lot about betting on this podcast. People put a lot of money on fantasy sports man.
ALEX: Right. Well, and Pham said as much, right? He said, look, I’m a high roller casinos, man.
BOBBY: It’s Tommy, Tommy. Tommy, let’s have a talk.
ALEX: I guess the, the biggest thing I can’t wrap my head around is that it’s the end of May. The, the football season, as it were.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Ended three months ago. And given that this likely happened in season, there’s a decent chance that Tommy Pham has been stewing on this for–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –six months.
BOBBY: Right. Well, supposedly the other part of this was that Pham felt that Pederson had since escalated the situation by sending some, some, some jabs in the group chat about it.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: The 2021 San Diego Padres, of which Tommy Pham was a member of.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And so that was just an offense that fam could not let stand.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Insulting the 70 and 92, 2021 San Diego Padres,
ALEX: I just, this whole thing feels so surreal to even say out loud.
BOBBY: No, I know.
ALEX: Like I’m not convinced that this isn’t just an elaborate bit, you know, Allah rat raccoon gate–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –of the, of the noted Francisco Lindor Jeff McNeil dust up.
BOBBY: There was a really funny moment on the last episode of Batting Around where they, they, they were trying to remember that little dust up from the 2021 Mets. But they only knew like kind of 60% of it. And so they were trying to get themselves all the way there. And then one person would remember one more thing. And then the next person remember one more thing. And they still kind of didn’t really get the whole story right. But it was close enough that it was hilarious.
ALEX: I mean, here’s the thing, the details in that situation don’t matter, right?
BOBBY: Don’t matter at all.
ALEX: You could, you could [20:17]–
BOBBY: [20:17] like details were–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –made up.
ALEX: Yeah. So and, and like Pederson’s delivery to reporters about the story after the game is so good.
BOBBY: He’s so–
ALEX: He’s not, he does not break character once, in his retelling of the story.
BOBBY: And he’s, he just looks ridiculous. At this point of his life, just his, his, his hair choices, his wardrobe choices. They’re not like helping the story go away–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –to put it lightly. I saw someone say that he looked like Caillou. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know. If you ever get to the point where you want to slap me over fantasy sports. Just, I’ll pay you the money. How about that?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah, I commit to that on this podcast. Do not ever let yourself get to the point of wanting to fight me over fantasy sports.
ALEX: Yeah, I’m not sure I could let myself get that heated over. What is effectively the, the performance of someone else?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: You know, like at the end of–
BOBBY: The athletes, the funniest thing is that, in my experience, this is obviously anecdotal. But in my experience, man athletes take fantasy sports arguably serio- more serious than fans.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like if you’re–
ALEX: I don’t know what to say.
BOBBY: –either retired, if you’re either a retired athlete, or you’re an athlete playing another sports, fantasy sport. They take that so seriously, man. With a lot of money on the line. So, I don’t know.
ALEX: Which is probably–
BOBBY: [21:48]
ALEX: –[21:48] the biggest difference. Yeah.
BOBBY: Yes, exactly. We have like $10 on the line. Or like–
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: –if you’re, if it’s, if it’s a league that you really trust the people in like $100? I don’t know. From Joc Peterson to his manager, Alex. We, we’re gonna get to our conversation with, with Steve, in just, just a couple of minutes. But got some news this past week. Some interesting news, in the form of a blog post and then subsequent interview from San Francisco Giants Manager Gabe Kapler. About the State of America, I guess. And his choice to not take the field for the National Anthem. Kapler wrote a, a long and I think well-thought out and well-defended blog post about why he felt like he no longer wanted to come out onto the field for the National Anthem. Now we’re in this, we’re in this post Colin Kaepernick world where this is sort of a shorthand for a, a form of protest that, that is meant to widely criticize the state of something in our country is an anthem protest. And Kapler knows this, I think he discu- even discussed this a little bit in the blog post. It was immediately started, sort of part of the conversation after the fact that San Francisco Giants Manager, former San Francisco 49ers quarterback. And in this specific instance, Kapler was referring to the horrific school shooting that happened in Texas last week. And the fact that we seem to be at this point where politicians have no interest in ever addressing mass shootings in this country. And so Kapler, I’ll play a little bit of his audio here about why he felt that this was the proper way to, to address what’s going on right now.
KAPLER: Yeah. I, I just don’t, I don’t plan on coming out for, for the anthem going forward until I feel like there’s, I feel better about the direction of our country. So that, that’ll be the step I don’t, I don’t expect it to, to move the needle necessarily. It’s just something that I feel strongly enough about to, to take that step. I think I, the rest of what I wrote, I think explains the rest of that. Yeah?
REPORTER: [reporter asks question]
KAPLER: I was having a hard time articulating my thoughts, the day of the shooting, and the day we went out there on the line. And sometimes for me, it takes me a couple of days to put everything together. I knew I was, I knew that I was not in my best space mentally. And I knew that it was in connection with some of the hypocrisy of standing for the National Anthem and how it coincided with a moment of silence. And how those two things didn’t sync up well for me, but I wasn’t quite sure. I, I couldn’t make sense of it in real time [24:46]–
BOBBY: This is sort of I- it’s tough to talk about this. Because on the one hand, I think a well-considered protest in sports is a very powerful thing. On the other hand, I think when, when someone in sports organizes a protest, particularly someone on the management side organizes a protest. I have, I reserve some skepticism for what the actionable item is from that protest. And that’s not even to say that all protests needs to have a, a direction that you’re trying to lead in. Because I don’t, I don’t think that’s true, I think you can protest from a, a place of anger, from a place of fear, from a place of sadness. And you don’t necessarily know what you want to do or to come out of this protest. Especially at the beginning, and it might evolve into something more. But I think, I, I bring a healthy skepticism to when someone comes out and wants to protest in this way. Because, ultimately, what are you trying to accomplish? And what are you willing to do to accomplish that, aside from this form of protest. And with Kapler, unfortunately, that, that reservation was pretty quickly confirmed when just earlier today, as we sit here and record this on Sunday, he said that he would still come out for the anthem on Memorial Day, because he felt like that’s a special kind of day in this country. And he didn’t want to disrespect the anthem, on Memorial Day, versus other days. And, and I don’t want to crush Kapler too hard, because I think he is probably a person, I think he’s very likely a person who is deeply affected by what’s going on in our country. And I think that he wants to use his platform, to affect change, and to bring attention and awareness and make people feel uncomfortable. Which was the initial point of the Colin Kaepernick anthem protest. But then when you immediately are like, I’m going to come out and stand with my hand over my heart during God Bless America, I’m going to come out during the National Anthem on Memorial Day, it just feels like a, a little bit of an on the fence protest.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Upon joined–
ALEX: If you’re carving out exceptions for your protest like–
BOBBY: Within less than a week of when you started it. It’s–
ALEX: –like you could argue that the, the protests on Memorial Day means more for precisely the reason that he is sa- saying, right? Precisely because it is deemed such a patriotic day. There’s room for you to have impact there, right? And you’re going to ruffle some feathers, you absolutely are. Do not go over to Fox News, and see what they’re saying about Gabe Kapler right now, right? Like, like, all- right, dipshits are having a meltdown over this. But it just strikes me as, as maybe not being so resolute in your principles, as you initially set them out to be. Like the point of protest is to make a scene, to make people uncomfortable, right? If you, if, if your protest is not actively flying in the face of power, flying in the face of tradition, it, it, it’s probably not doing what it set out to do. You know, does that make sense?
BOBBY: Yeah. And if you dig under it a little bit more. The point of protesting is to disrupt something. You’re either disrupting the, the normal flow of traffic in a city, as you march and, and get your point across about whatever that is. Or you marched to someone’s, you marched to the Mayor’s house and try to affect change that way. And in baseball, what, what is Gabe Kapler trying to disrupt by doing these protests, he’s trying to disrupt the normalcy of playing the National Anthem. The, the routine that we do in this country, which is playing the National Anthem, before every single sporting event. And now, a lot of people who are not from the United States think that that is very weird that we do that. I think that I count myself among that camp of people. And, and by protesting during the Anthem by not coming out, and then saying that what you’re doing is, this is an act of protests. There’s not another reason that you’re not coming out during the National Anthem. You’re trying to disrupt that so that people think, well, why is he doing that? Then you could provide them an explanation. And then let them, let them sit with that explanation. And let them think critically about what you’re upset about. Which I don’t question that Gabe Kapler’s is truly upset about the state of our country as everybody should be. But then when you don’t do it, arguably, like you said, on a day where this routine is centralized as much as any other day on the calendar, except maybe July 4, the patriotism shown on Memorial Day during baseball games, is at the level of Independence Day is as central to the broadcast as it is during Independence Day. Then when you don’t do it on that day. Well, then you have to wonder how disruptive Gabe Kapler is really willing to be from his position of power. You have to wonder how much, how much comfort he’s willing to sacrifice in order to make other people uncomfortable. I hope that he, I mean, we’re recording this on Sunday, we won’t know what actually comes of it. I hope that he turn, I hope that he reneged on this, and hope that he actually does continue the protest on–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –Memorial Day, but I don’t know if he will.
ALEX: Yeah, that’s well put. And I think that the, I think that the points that he laid out in his blog post on, on why he was making this decision still ring true, right? You know, he–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –it’s a, it’s a questioning of the kind of blind jingoism that we participate in, when we stand for the National Anthem, right?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: And a–
BOBBY: And the exceptionalism, that it reinforces.
ALEX: Right, a lack of questioning of, of what this country might actually stand for, and what we’re doing to backup those values outside of the baseball stadium. But like you said, if, if you’re only protesting when it’s convenient, I dare I say, that’s not a protest. That’s, it’s suggesting that you would like to draw more attention to yourself in that moment than the actual issues that you, you say you’re trying to draw attention to. And so again, I, I don’t want to condemn him at this point. It’s, it’s very early on. But when I was watching the, the Reds, when I was watching the Reds-Giants game this morning, and saw him standing with his, his hand over his heart for God Bless America in the seventh inning. I, I have to wonder what he was thinking about in that moment. Because the, the sentiments of that song are the exact same ones that run through the, the National Anthem.
BOBBY: Even put- even more plainly, maybe.
ALEX: Yes, exactly.
BOBBY: Yes, I agree. Okay, Alex, let’s take a quick break. And then when we come back, our very fun conversation with Steve Sladkowski from PUP.
[32:08]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Okay, Alex, first guest in a long time. We are very excited to be joined by Steve Sladkowski of PUP. Steve, how’s it going, man?
STEVE: Good, you got my last name. That’s impressed, it’s a nice–
BOBBY: Do–
STEVE: –start.
BOBBY: –do people mix it up a lot?
STEVE: Oh, yeah!
BOBBY: I though about, I thought about asking you how to pronounce it. But then I was like, it’s probably just phonetic. Like everything’s–
STEVE: It is.
BOBBY: –there on the page–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –man.
STEVE: Yeah, I think a lot of people see like D and K next to each other in a like, and you’re then they’re like, nah, I can’t- those have to one of those has to be silent.
ALEX: Right or there’s a sound in the middle there Slad- Sladkowski.
STEVE: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But, but no, Sladkowski is the one I get the most.
BOBBY: Oh, they just get right over the K.
STEVE: Yeah, there’s no K there.
BOBBY: The invisible K.
STEVE: Yeah.
BOBBY: Well, Alex, I imagine you probably get people messing your name up a lot to earn school like with the extra E, Bazeley. Did you get that a lot?
ALEX: Yeah, people, people did mess it up, do mess it up. More often the spelling though, than the, than actual pronunciation. It’s often just drop, dropping e, you know. Like the E carries over to after the Z or before the Z. It’s, it’s fine, it works.
BOBBY: Steve, I don’t often read quotes that people have said or written down back to them when we’re interviewing them. But I want to tell you about the moment that we decided we wanted you to come on Tipping Pitches.
STEVE: Okay.
BOBBY: There’s an article in SPIN Magazine previewing the 2022 baseball season. And it is where you called the people who own baseball, greedy scumbags who hate the game, and its labor force. Can you tell us why you decided to use that platform to just take a, take a little swipe at MLB owners?
STEVE: I don’t give a fuck, mostly. I think is the thing. I can swear, right?
BOBBY: Yes, of course.
STEVE: Yeah, I don’t know. But that whole, that, that lockout was so cynical. And I don’t know, I just think like, I’ve, I, Daniel from SPIN has been kind enough to even when I say shit like that, just be like, yeah, you should we should keep actually talking to you. So you know, I think, I think kind of part of that is also knowing that like, you know, it’s a safe kind of place to say it.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: But also I do think like, I think labor, it’s so easy to give a like, like Coles Notes version, or Sparks Notes, I think they’re called in the United States version of–
ALEX: [34:45] Canadian
BOBBY: [34:45] in Canada? Yeah, like what?
STEVE: It was called, it was called Coles Notes.
BOBBY: This is like breaking news!
ALEX: Wow!
BOBBY: Oh, shit!
STEVE: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, it’s like, it’s I feel like an introduction to like labor politics is so easy to be like, if, if someone likes baseball, you’re like, it’s very simple.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: Owner bad, player good. Like, and then from there you can kind of answer all the questions that they might have. Like but he’s a millionaire. It’s like yeah, but he’s a billionaire.
ALEX: Right.
STEVE: Right, like–
BOBBY: I’m having [35:15] next to all of our, all of our lockout discussions now, Alex.
STEVE: Yeah. But yeah, I mean, that lock, it was so just like, you know, everyone loves transactions, and we were denied months of transactions because the owners were like, Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t think we make enough money that we should have more money. You know, and then you’re like, okay, cool, great. Yeah. After, after the two years that we’ve all gone through the idea here is ownership needs more money. I, that’s great. I love it.
ALEX: Yeah, the, the lockout was, was obviously bad for many reasons. But it was, it was I think, largely bad for the owners because it gave baseball fans, like, like there was no distraction anymore.
STEVE: Yeah.
ALEX: Right? Like we couldn’t be forced to just talk about Gerritt Cole’s con- contract or, or whatever it is, right? Or, or–
STEVE: Yeah.
ALEX: Kevin Gausman go into the, the Jays or whatever, right? It was like–
STEVE: Which I forgot, I literally forgot.
BOBBY: Well it’s one thing when, you know, like, guys like me and Alex, who have a podcast about labor and baseball are just coming on here to take shots at owners. But then they’re getting in SPIN Magazine that, that must have been–
STEVE: Yeah.
BOBBY: –when we decided like, oh, we gotta wrap this thing up. [36:25]
STEVE: [36:26] Yeah, that was me. I, listen, I didn’t want to take credit for it.
BOBBY: You did it, Steve. Thank you.
STEVE: Someone, someone has to. Yeah, that’s right.
BOBBY: Tell us about your, your baseball origin story. How did you, how’d you get so into the game?
STEVE: Boy, yeah, one of my earliest kind of childhood memories is I’m in my 30s, I’m 34. So one of my earliest kind of childhood memories is the ’92-’93 World Series teams. And I was like a kid, like, you know, four or five kind of years old. But I was like watching with my grandmother. My dad played baseball for, for quite a competitive level. But it got to the point where my, my grandparents who were like immigrants to Canada couldn’t afford to. Like take him, he was playing for a team that was kind of playing closer to Windsor. Because I guess they had some affiliation with Detroit, and the Tigers. And they couldn’t afford to, like take him out there because they worked, you know, factory jobs, basically. And he coached a little bit when I was a kid, and I played and I played pretty competitively until I was about 18. Like, kind of knew that playing like, like rep state level, whatever.
BOBBY: What’s the scouting report? What’s the what’s the quick elevator pitch for Steve’s?
STEVE: I was a, high contact, high on base percentage, fast first baseman.
BOBBY: Wow! Don’t see those all the time.
ALEX: Flip in the narrative.
STEVE: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I like to tell people that like there’s not that that’s actually not that big of a difference between me and Joey Votto, really. If you think about it, like it’s not. You know, if you ignore all the big differences between us. But yeah, so, so you know, and then it was, it was a big bonding thing obviously, for my dad and I. Still is, we still go to games and watch games and all that stuff. And yeah, I mean, the Jays were kind of an in an interesting spot for a lot of like, my kind of adolescence and like teenage years. Where it was like a lot of those kind of like, the initial John Gibbons run, were like, you know, they were kind of a wild card team, and they were kind of good, but then it was like the Yankees and the Red Sox were just like the evil empire, like dual like evil empire. You know, so like, I remember, I got to watch Roy Halladay pitch day in and day out for a, a, a decade, you know?
BOBBY: Quite a treat.
STEVE: Like, basically–
BOBBY: Quite a treat.
STEVE: –the whole time he- yeah, yeah.
ALEX: Pitch boy.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: It was awesome. You know, and it’s like still–
BOBBY: Throwing complete game, complete game shout outs on a team that wins 70 games ever year.
STEVE: Yeah, like, like his complete game. Like one nothing losses. Yeah, it was, you know, like, I remember like the Vernon Wells contract. I remember Lyle Overbay first baseman I remember. Troy [39:11]–
ALEX: [39:11] remember some guys
STEVE: –Scott Rolen? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m, it’s, it’s you know, David Roth has been like, oh, you remember some guys okay, that’s–
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: –you can, you can hang.
BOBBY: It’s nice when, it’s nice when the, the king accepts you into his realm. And he says David Ross like you can remember some guys.
STEVE: Yeah, you ever might remember too many guys like John McDonald, you know. We’re gonna get weird but like, basically the like angry J’s is what we call them. The when they had the black jerseys.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: Josh towers. But you know, and, and then kind of, it’s sort of shifted into this kind of place of like, for a long time music was my hobby, or like, you know, when I was in school, I did my degree in music. And, you know, nobody, there’s no one I personally want to hang out with less than someone who can only talk about one thing. And I feel–
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: –like I feel like I, I got to that point in my life where music had was such a huge part of my life. Both from kind of like doing my education standpoint, and then as PUP kind of started to, to grow. I was like, I can’t, I cannot be that guy. And so that kind of brought me back in to baseball kind of in the last 10, 12 years, not that I was ever out of it. But, but just being like, oh, this absence of hobby can be filled by being into baseball again. And it was kind of just as the Jays were starting to make that, that sort of turnaround with, with Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion and you know, that sort of era. So it was kind of a nice as the city was kind of coming up you know, something like Drake when take care came out renting out the Sky Dome wearing that old the black Jays cap. Like in, in that music video, you know, it all it kind of was a nice, a nice way to enjoy the city and enjoy time hanging out with my parents and friends while I was kind off the road.
ALEX: Now, are you, when you got to be, because PUP is currently on tour. You guys are on a bit of a break right now. But you–
STEVE: Yup!
ALEX: –you’re, I believe you’re headed across the world next, right?
STEVE: Yes.
ALEX: So are you–
STEVE: Feels insane, wild [41:29]–
ALEX: Weird thing to say. Yeah.
STEVE: Yeah, it’s, it’s yeah. Oh, yeah.
ALEX: How much are you really able to kind of like, stay up to date when you’re, when you’re on the road? Like, are you, are you on a bus like checking score updates when you, when you come offstage, is it more casual?
STEVE: No, like it’s kind of nice, actually. Like, I haven’t been BTV. And some of the buses that we’ve been on ever had a satellite, which is crazy. But you know, they have the baseball packages and stuff usually on those. Because the drivers tend to want to watch the for the bands they have on our sports fans. So yeah, I’ve been able to follow the Jays and you know, in headlining slots most of the time like in North America, we’re not on until close to 10pm.
BOBBY: Right.
STEVE: So if the Jays are on the East Coast, like I can sit and like, watch the game kind of after dinner. And then you know, even my bandmates who are not like particularly avid baseball fans by any means. One of the cool things about kind of traveling, especially in the United States. Traveling around is sort of like, there’s a lot of Minor League Baseball, just on a day off, you know. You might be, might be in a town somewhere and you’re like, oh, it’s actually a 20-minute drive to the stadium or whatever, we can go see a team. We’re gonna go try and see the Indianapolis Triple-A team, when we’re there and you know, kind of, yeah, just keep an eye out. Dan, our tour managers is a big baseball fan of St. Louis Cardinals guy, so he’s also someone where like, whenever we need something from him in, in his office, he’s got the Cardinals game on and he and I are able to kind a. Yeah, which funnily enough, we weren’t roasting each other the last two days even though the the Jays and Cardinals were playing. Because mostly we’re just like, I’m gonna see you in a week like we just need some time away from each other [43:09]. But, yeah.
BOBBY: I love the idea of a seventh inning bullpen blow up like ruining the first couple songs of your set. Has that happened–
STEVE: Oh, yeah.
BOBBY: –to you before?
STEVE: No, like, I would say probably the, the worst, the most like agonizing was during the Jays second run to the LCS when they lost to Cleveland a couple years ago. Like having to go on, those games starting a little bit later. Because they’re–
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: –like national broadcast–
BOBBY: Like natio–
STEVE: –games.
BOBBY: Yeah, primetime.
STEVE: And it was just like, I, nah, you can’t do this to me, you know, but like, no, there’s nothing that the Jays, I feel like at this point there’s nothing that Jays could do.
BOBBY: Much actully played a fed up version tonight, guys. We’re gonna play–
STEVE: Yeah.
BOBBY: –30 minutes.
STEVE: Yeah, I’m bringing my phone on stage. And there are no refunds like I’m sorry, I don’t know what to tell you. Like–
ALEX: To shout out score updates to me please.
STEVE: Yeah, people have done that people in Boston.
BOBBY: That’s cool.
STEVE: When we were there. People were people were telling us to score the leafs game, you know. And it’s one of those funny things where like, you don’t want to make it about I feel like there’s still this idea that the like, there’s like that. It’s like, sometimes I feel like people think it’s still a John Hughes movie. You know, you’re like, oh, like they’re the jocks, and the jocks can’t be rockers, and the rockers can’t be preppy. And you’re like, everything is bad for everyone. Like I don’t know why we’re trying to distinguish between any of this stuff, you know, I think like–
BOBBY: Right.
STEVE: –I think it’s, it’s, it’s fine to have people who like rock bands also be into sports and not in fact, especially in baseball, we need all the non douchebags that both in the sport and outside of sport. Whom who we could possibly get at this point.
BOBBY: I feel like there’s a, there’s a healthy crossover between baseball fans and fans of not only just PUP, but like kind of this entire music scene that PUP lives in. Like, based–
STEVE: Yeah.
BOBBY: –on just the people that we’ve met through doing this podcast. Like, I don’t know what it is. But Alex and I were talking about this on the way to your show in New York City. But is it just that like baseball fandom is pain? And punk rock music just expresses that pain or what?
STEVE: I mean, I, you know, in terms of like, being emotionally wrecked by something that doesn’t particularly like have any effect on your day to day life. Music and, and like baseball and that kind of punk rock roll probably have a lot in common. You know, I don’t know, I don’t know what it is, I think, I think there’s also just something like, maybe, maybe it’s pleasant, you know, just in terms of like, the, the length of time like, there’s a lot of downtime–
BOBBY: Yeah.STEVE: –that a baseball game, I feel like Phil’s the same way that if you’re in home on a Sunday, like, having a game on a radio, even like or on the TV. But also like, I know that these are very niche things, but you know, I, I, it’s yeah, I, I think probably it’s the emotionally crushing reality of it. Like I think you’re reading, I think your reading is right, you know.
ALEX: I think, I think there’s also a sense there of, you know, a kind of political ethos that probably ties a lot of it together, right? We’re obviously in a very, you could call it a bubble of, of like–
BOBBY: You keep doing this thing, or keep, like doing the echo chamber spiel, that feels like it lives in 2018. But I love this for you. You’re coming to it in 2022.
ALEX: While we’re still here.
BOBBY: That’s fair.
ALEX: You know, I’d like of like vaguely, like lefty, like online, baseball–
STEVE: Yeah.
ALEX: –people, right? And it feels like, you know, especially like punk music is very kind of rooted in that, like wearing your heart on your sleeve of like, politics, right?
STEVE: Yeah.
ALEX: And, and that’s certainly I think, something that, that you guys have brought to your music, right? I think I said, I wouldn’t even call it, call it undertones on the most recent record. There’s a lot about corporate overlords, right? Thanking of the sponsors, right? So it’s certainly not something you, you guys have shied away from in your music. And I get the sense that like, I think there’s probably a lot of fans who, who can appreciate that and maybe have the same concerns about, about baseball as they have about the rest of the world.
STEVE: Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that. Thank you. You know, I think, I think it is kind of a thing, like just even off the top being like it is a very accessible kind of entry point into talking about labor, talking about some of these kind of political things, unionization. Which, I mean, those T shirts you, you to have made are amazing. But you know, I think like, it’s, it’s also one of those things where, for every example, we could probably hold up to support that. There are a bunch of examples we can hold up within both of those worlds that completely negate it, right? But I do think like, being able to kind of show that it’s easier than you think to kind of unlearn some of the worst behaviors of like a, a sports fan or have like, a kind of thoughtless concert going douchebag you know. Like, and actually, like, it’s, there’s totally a space for people to feel like safe and welcomed and, and have a kind of progressive worldview while still enjoying this game. Even though, you know, at its most kind of fundamental level it like, re creating the kind of culture of capitalism is something that has to be dealt with, in some way, you know. Like, but that doesn’t mean like, well, like what the new like, what can you enjoy at that point?
BOBBY: Exactly.
STEVE: Like, you know, I don’t know.
BOBBY: Yeah, you just kind of have to like hold space that you’re also allowed to like, to like this thing and enjoy this thing.
STEVE: Yeah.
BOBBY: And just because you do and put your money towards it, so that you can enjoy it. It’s not your fault. Like–
STEVE: Yeah.
BOBBY: –what you said about, you know, touring and being in a lot of minor league towns. I think strike, struck a chord with me because that how differently is Minor League Baseball, in all these small different places. Then, like a, a big tour, or like a tour that you go on, when you’re early in your career where you’re going to all of these small towns. Like you’re doing it for a few 100 people. Minor League Baseball players are putting on an exhibition for a few 100 people. And ostensibly like they’re doing it so that they can get called up to the majors. This are a lot of bands doing it so they can play bigger venues and, and have more fans and get to make more music and that kind of thing. And–
STEVE: Yes!
BOBBY: I, I do think there is sort of a communal aspect to this to things. That maybe makes it more of an obvious linkage for why you might like both then it would appear on its face.
STEVE: Totally! And I think even like you know even something as kind of like there was that post about the food, right? the the minor league Are some of the meals that they were getting. And that’s like not so different from some of the stuff that we’ve encountered when the, when the venue is like, we have food for you.
BOBBY: Here’s a blank slice of Bologna on two pieces of [50:11]–
STEVE: Yeah, right? Like, you know, like, here’s pasta that we like the with, there’s the tomato sauce is actually ketchup, right? Like, whatever. I, I do think that you kind of anywhere where you can kind of pull that curtain back, whether it be you know, in some of those songs that kind of we worked on with a new record or, or kind of post like that, where you’re like, here’s the reality.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: You know, I, I, I think it’s good. I think it makes people appreciate both. What it takes to kind of get to a level where you are playing in front of 1000s of people. Whether that’s on the field or on a stage and also kind of like, just like how, how exploitive by kind of nature these industries are.
ALEX: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
BOBBY: Alex has assembled a Spreadsheet of Walk-Up Songs and sing as you are a musician. We do want to ask you about Walk-Up Songs. Before we do, can we talked about your walk-out song in the New York City show, which was Heart Of A Champion by Nelly. How do you guys, how do you guys select music like that? Is it the same process that you think that, do you think it’s the same process as a baseball player selecting a walk-up song?
STEVE: Yeah, I mean, sometimes we will, we’ll do things like that are a little bit more tied to the performance. So you know, for, for a while they’re walking on to Rambo rock. We had figured out that it was, it ended on a chord that was relative to the opening of morbid stuff.
BOBBY: Ohh, okay.
STEVE: So, so we would like hit the end chord in time with the walk-on music and then start more of a, you know, so there’s some some of that.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: And then I think other times, there’s just stuff that we think is really goofy that like, doesn’t go over well. Like, do you remember that, like, YouTube clip that went, went viral? That was like, the 20th Century Fox theme, but someone played it shittily on a flute–
ALEX: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
STEVE: –remember that? We like we like thought it would be so funny to walk-out to that. And people were just like, what the fuck are you doing? Like, you know, so sometimes it’s, it’s about like, trying to sync it as part of this kind of show. And, and as part of the production and other times, it’s just like, who’s got the dumbest idea? Which like, still to, to, to, to me is not dumber than what Ben Zobrist did. Like–
BOBBY: Which was what?
STEVE: Had his wife song.
BOBBY: Oh. Oh. Oh, oh.
STEVE: And it was so fucking bad, it’s so, that song is so bad. I can’t believe.
ALEX: Well, it makes it even worse, knowing that the context around–
STEVE: Absolutely.
ALEX: –what happened to it.
STEVE: Yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: I feel like 45% of walk-out songs, walk-up songs and baseball are pretty, pretty bad. Like they’re just like, you know, the wrong part of a country song.
STEVE: Yeah, yeah I mean–
BOBBY: 45% of the time, you know?
STEVE: Like that, that was the thing about like, I think Jose Bautista did it so well, walking out to Drake, right? It was right at that time when like, you know, trophies and, and big rings. Like, sometimes it’s just like, a guy like Bautista is like, I know, this is my city! Like, even though this is a hockey town, this is my city, you know? And like, here’s how because I’m the guy walking into Drake. Like, stuff like that sometimes it’s really compelling and I think, I think is great, you know. But then it was like yeah, Justin Smoak would walk-out to like, the just worst country song.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: So [53:40] a curveball.
ALEX: I appreciate when the players put, you know, a similar level of like, thought into it as, as you guys might, you know, walking out to a song or you can turn the chords or something like that. Or, or–
BOBBY: Or one that will remind everybody of, of their high school lifting playlist like Heart Of A Champion.
ALEX: Right, exactly. Well, like well, like you have like, like Bay Area players who are like walking out to like back Dre, right.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: Yeah.
ALEX: Like oh, like shout out you know? Or, or, or Yu Chang on the Cleveland Guardians walking out to Crank That Soulja Boy, right?
STEVE: Right.
ALEX: Because it has that like opening you know, it’s like this is, you, you put just the right amount of thought into it. But like what, what makes the, the ideal walk-up song for you? You know, is it like, like, if, if you’re a baseball player or even back in your baseball player days, right? Because I know this is something that everyone who has ever played baseball has, has thought about at some point.
STEVE: Yeah.
ALEX: What is what is the kind of thing that like really gets you, gets you in the mood?
STEVE: I, I feel like it has to be up tempo or it has to be something that just like, like, I think the ultimate thing is like having something that is now associated. Because it’s like no one can use Enter Sandman anymore, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: Like, like that is that is like the ultimate where you’re like, you are so good and people are so afraid of you that your song can’t be used in baseball anymore. Because if someone were to use Enter Sandman it like–
BOBBY: [55:18] valor–
STEVE: –[55:19]
ALEX: They get, they get [55:20]
STEVE: Yeah. I think people saw that I’m driving in New York City, right? Like, like, uhm, you know, so I think that’s kind of the thing as to what, like now [55:28] I supposed to give you one here?
BOBBY: Well if you want and you don’t need–
STEVE: [55:32]
BOBBY: –to be put on the spot too much. But–
STEVE: Yeah.
BOBBY: –you had thought about it, you had to have thought about it.
STEVE: I’m trying to think like, I do think it would be something like very nerdy, right? Like, like it would be like a, it’d be like Rush or something. You know, it’d be–
BOBBY: Oh, nice.
STEVE: –like something like Titanicly just like he’s walking out to YYC it’s been like seven. And there’s it’s an instrumental and like–
ALEX: Right.
STEVE: –tet tet, tet tet–
ALEX: The audience can’t really bop their head to it, you know.
STEVE: Like what the fuck? Like, it’s just like the like brain worms version of walking out to like journey or something, I don’t know. Like–
BOBBY: Right. I think my answer at one point was Limelight, which I mean–
STEVE: Right, there you go.
BOBBY: –the rush song [56:14] the drums come in and everybody’s fuckin’ into it even if they don’t know the song.
STEVE: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
STEVE: I, I my bandmates and I talked about this a little bit but like, you like to think that your, your tastes has sort of like as you’ve grown up, like evolved or changed?
BOBBY: Oh, yeah.
STEVE: And then you’re like, you know, for Stefan he was like, a be, yeah, but then My Chemical Romance and that’s a reunion tour.
BOBBY: And I spend $300 per ticket, yes.
STEVE: Well, he’s like, yeah, not only my like bothering our agent to be like, get me tickets for this, please. Also, I how do we open the show? Like this is all I want to do.
BOBBY: Wait, if you’re going to open to My Chemical Romance show, can you please open the one in LA? I–
STEVE: Yeah, I, I wish.
BOBBY: –my ticket to LA. And it was supposed to be obviously for 2020 and they’ve now pushed it back to years. I no longer live in LA so I have to fly back [57:03] show.
STEVE: Yeah, unfortunately, we won’t be opening any of the shows. But that’s okay. I’m going to, I choose to, to, to say that it’s not for any, any, any reason other than it just like it couldn’t happen.
BOBBY: It just didn’t work out [57:20]
ALEX: Right.
STEVE: They want to not me being drunk once and telling Frank that I had never heard of My Chemical Romance. Well I did.
BOBBY: Did you play a show with him?
STEVE: We put, we did a tour with, with Frank in Thursday. Frank has like a solo band it was–
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: –Thursday. And, and Frank, they, it was lovely, it was really fun tour. And at the last show I was like, I was like listen Frank. I don’t really know the band very well. And he, his wife was there, they thought it was hilarious. That I is goofy. There’s a lot of goofy stuff that’s happened like that where I’m like, ah, if I were an anxious person, this would be bad. Like, like yeah, I would be laying awake at night, like, fuck! You know, but no, no, we still, we still, yeah, Frank’s cool, Frank’s been real supportive in the DMs and, and, and whatever.
ALEX: Is, is there a PUP song that you think would like fit well?
BOBBY: Yeah, that was my next question.
ALEX: As a–
STEVE: Okay.
ALEX: –as a walk-up song?
STEVE: Ah, actually, when Mark Buehrle was still pitching for the Jays. There was a start that he had in Toronto, and they played Lionheart while he was walking–
ALEX: Wow!
STEVE: –off the field.
BOBBY: Wow!
STEVE: Which was cool. So yeah, apparently somebody in, in Jays game ops says yes. And, and maybe it’s Lionheart which is funny because it’s seven tweeted this the other day, it was like that, that song is not, those lyrics are nonsense. It was like going back. We were like, talking about old songs to try and learn and he was like, what the fuck? What was I thinking? You know, but yeah, no, yes. Lionheart res- I don’t know. I feel like I feel like it’s one of those funny things where like, again, people sort of are like, oh, you’re like a rock band that people like and you’ve been kind of upfront about enjoying sports. You know, whether that be like Stephen as big Leafs fan I wear Raptors jersey on stage for a long time, and then the Jays stuff, whatever. Surely the songs work in, in video games. Which is so funny, because like, I remember that as like a hallmark of like, The Show, right? Or like–
BOBBY: Oh, yeah.
STEVE: –EA Sports like NHL games and stuff.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: And it’s, it’s, it’s bizarre to now be like on the other side of that, where I’m like, Oh, I’m it like I’m in that’s, I’m there, that’s weird. And I don’t play these games anymore! That’s the funniest part.
BOBBY: I know.
STEVE: It’s like I, I don’t play video games anymore. And was never really into that.
BOBBY: The two of us play enough for all three of us, so– It’s funny, it’s interesting question about the walk-up song. Because you obviously want to please the crowd. There’s 40,000 people there. They don’t have to enjoy the song that’s, that’s an important part of a walk-up sign. It’s not just for you, you know, it’s not like your headphones before the game. But you also want to get hyped for your, your at bat. But you also want to seem like kinda cool, you know? Like, you don’t–
STEVE: Yeah.
BOBBY: –want to pick the most obvious song. You want to pick like the third or fourth most obvious song.
STEVE: Yeah.
BOBBY: So that everybody–
STEVE: No, it’s true.
BOBBY: –still knows it. But everybody knows that you didn’t choose, you know, like, Headline by Drake or so [1:00:21].
STEVE: Yeah. I feel like, I feel like there. There’s like a good like subsection I’m trying to think of who it was on the Jays. But there’s like, anytime there’s like a good sense of humor.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: Like, where they’re like playing something that’s obviously ridiculous. So they’re kind of like taking the piss out of it a little bit. The crowd kind of gets it. And you’re like, and you probably liked this song. And you think like, yeah, it is funny that I’m walking out to, you know, a Space Cowboy by Kacey Musgraves or something. But like–
ALEX: Yeah.
STEVE: –you know, like, I don’t know, you know, like. But yeah, I, I, I do think there’s, there’s that angle that can be taken.
BOBBY: Yeah, Wilmer, Wilmer Flores walking out to the Friends theme song because that was–
STEVE: Exactly!
BOBBY: –’cause I know him, that was [1:01:05]
STEVE: Yeah.
ALEX: Well like, like Josh Reddick for the longest time walked out to Careless Whisper–
STEVE: Right.
ALEX: –by George Michael, like yeah.
STEVE: That’s what I was trying, that’s the one I was trying to think of. I was like, it’s, it’s someone from Oakland and not Houston, that push them up [1:01:16]. Like, yeah, yeah, Reddick, that was it, that was it.
ALEX: Yeah.
STEVE: Because then they–
ALEX: Yeah.
STEVE: –would do the sax thing and, you know. Yeah.
ALEX: Right. And then it becomes a bit and it kind of takes–
STEVE: Exactly!
ALEX: –on a life a lifestyle zone–
STEVE: Exactly.
ALEX: –right?
STEVE: Yeah, yeah.
ALEX: We, we need more of that in baseball, and music.
STEVE: Yeah. It’s a bit more doing bits,
ALEX: More bits.
BOBBY: We don’t need more bits here. But in Baseball [1:01:38]
STEVE: Yeah, in baseball, we do. Yeah.
BOBBY: Alex, what are the, what are the big takeaways for you putting together this Spreadsheet of walk-up songs? Do we can have Steve analyze them and decide where the music industry is headed because of this.
STEVE: Oh, my God.
ALEX: Well, big, lots of lots of Kanye representation–
STEVE: Okay.
ALEX: –obviously. He’s the most represented among walk, walk-up songs. I mean, I think maybe not what struck me because this is if you think about it, it makes sense. But just because of the disproportionate representation of Latin American players in baseball, there’s like a lot of Latin music, right? Like, like Daddy Yankee is in–
BOBBY: Oh, yeah yeah yeah.
ALEX: –the top 5, and bad bunny. I mean, in some of their songs are just, like, perfectly suited to–
STEVE: Yes.
ALEX: –like, get you in the mood, right?
BOBBY: Yeah, like the instant hook of them. Yes.
ALEX: Yeah.
STEVE: Well, and, and it’s so obvious, like, sorry, I don’t mean to cut up but it’s like–
ALEX: No no no, go.
STEVE: –there was a summer there were this sort of like, Columbia kind of backbone of like, Latin American pop music was, you know, like, Despacito was a huge song.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: Not because of Bieber.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Right.
STEVE: Right? It was because–
BOBBY: The version without him was playing–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –everywhere [1:02:54] too.
STEVE: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah.
STEVE: And it’s because of like, there’s such a like a deep appreciation of dancing in a, in a lot of kind of like, Spanish language pop music that, that it just crosses over so naturally.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah. Yoan Moncada walks out to his own song, which I, I just I deeply admire that.
BOBBY: He’s trying to get more Spotify plays.
STEVE: Well this is the thing is like you if most at the arena level, most of them do have to pay out royalties.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Right.
STEVE: So like, that is kind of like a goofy–
BOBBY: Is this is a CBA violation?
ALEX: This move–
STEVE: Yeah, right. Like but like, Yoan’s double dipping, for sure. And he should double dip, you know?
BOBBY: Wow. Is this way, is Yoan Moncada want he got his own song actually practice?
STEVE: Yeah, exactly. There we go. That’s, that feels like a Patreon only bone. Like that’s a bonus episode, maybe? That’s a little deep.
ALEX: Yeah. The rest of the list is probably I, as relatively boring as you can imagine, right? Like, like Drake’s up there too. Drake, Drake’s–
STEVE: Oh, yeah.
ALEX: –in the, in the top five. There, there are some players who walk-out to like VOB.
BOBBY: Wow!
ALEX: And, and like all-time low.
STEVE: Yeah, we have to remember that–
ALEX: You are just living your, your best 2007 life right now.
BOBBY: Well think about it. Like we’re 26 Alex, the, the MLB peak is 27. So a lot of the guys who make up the bell curve of Major League Baseball right now. We’re in middle school at the same time as us.
STEVE: They’re hitting–
BOBBY: So–
STEVE: –nostalgia, they’re hitting the nostalgia window.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly. There’s maybe–
STEVE: Yeah.
BOBBY: –there’s gonna be a pop punk wave for walk-out song soon.
STEVE: Let’s go. Yeah, let’s go.
BOBBY: Just sitting there waiting.
STEVE: Yeah. I think who ever the 15-year old kid that likes PUP and throws somehow throws 80 miles an hour and can throw a changeup and a slider.
ALEX: Well we’ll start, we’ll start working on that campaign.
BOBBY: We should make that our mission. Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Put that on the shirt or something we could sell that on our merch store. Walk-up to a PUP saw.
STEVE: That’s right.
BOBBY: I think Losing My Religion is now my walk-up song. Now that we’ve talked it through and now that I’ve thought about it, I think that that–
STEVE: Wow.
BOBBY: –might go to that. That’s just instantly recognizable.
STEVE: But like, not, not like any like not it’s the end of the world, as we know it, like–
BOBBY: Well, yeah.
STEVE: –there, there’s a lot. Like R.E.M. was on the other day and like I was in the hardware store or something. And I was like, oh, yeah, this one. And I feel like R.E.M. is one of those bands where I’m like, damn!
BOBBY: Whatever the last song that you heard from them, you’re like, this is their masterpiece, basically.
STEVE: Yeah. Yeah. Like Radio Free Europe, hell yeah! I want!
BOBBY: All right. Well see, we don’t want to take up the rest of your evening. You’ve been so gracious with your time and we’ve, we’ve enjoyed talking to you so much. We want to let you, let people know where they can come see PUP, if you’re coming through their cities, potentially.
STEVE: Oh, sure. Yeah.
ALEX: I here you guys dropped an album recently.
STEVE: We did.
BOBBY: You can find the album that you are currently touring.
STEVE: Find it in record stores and on internet streaming services. You there are some of you listening who will probably steal it, that’s probably fine. I don’t get too mad about it now because I’m sort of living in the aftermath of the music industry that I helped create by being an avid Napster user, so I can’t get so mad. But you should pay for your content, all that to say, we will be on the road starting next week. I have to look up where we’re going. Because I don’t know what date it is. I was on time for this though. And that’s a win. Yeah, we’ll be next, next month we’re in throughout kind of the Midwest and a little bit in the South. We’re in Cleveland, in Royal Oak, get in Cincinnati, in Milwaukee. Some Major League Baseball towns, Indianapolis, Kansas City.
BOBBY: Cincinnati, I can recommend the PUP show instead of a Reds game.
STEVE: [1:07:00]
BOBBY: So it’s gonna be more entertaining, and better [1:07:03]
STEVE: My fiance’s family is going to be at that show. So please come and just make it seem like it’s really a great. Yeah, we’ll be in Nashville and then we’ll be kind of back in the United States this, this fall. We’ll be all over the place in Europe in Australia. It still feels those flights are booked, I know I’m going but it feels weird. And then if you want to see me tweet deranged things about Major League Baseball see me that read I suppose is more. It’s a podcast. It’s an audio medium. I’m @sladkow, s-l-a-d-k-o-w. As we kind of said at the beginning. And PUP band is around on, on the internet as well.
BOBBY: Alright, Steve Sladkowski from PUP, go check out PUP’s, all their music, their new record their old records all of it. If they’re coming through your town, consider going to their concert. It’s a great time, Alex and I had quite a bit of fun. Steve, thanks so much for coming on Tipping Pitches, man.
STEVE: Thanks, thanks for having me. I’m, I’m sure I’ll see you guys again soon.
[1:08:13]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Okay, thank you to Steve. Thank you to PUP for putting on a wonderful show. They’re coming through your town and you like their music, or you think you might like their music. Check out the new record. Let me check them out in concert. What a fun time to get back to live music. Thank you also Alex to five more members of our Alex Rodriguez VIP Club tier on Patreon. Those five members this week are Mike, Justine, Neil, Kyle, and Tony. Five of many who have signed up for that top tier. We’re so thankful for everybody’s support. As a reminder, that top tier gets you access to the Tipping Pitches Slack. At Tipping Pitches yearly holiday card. Tipping Pitches live Q&A. A Tipping Pitches Newsletter. Just, just so much Tipping Pitches for you. And it’s just $12 a month, if you have it to spare and if not, those other two tears are there for you. $5, $7, whatever you can contribute. And if you can’t, that’s okay too. Listening is all we really need and all we really asked from you. And maybe sharing it with a friend, telling them hey, you might like this podcast you. I liked this podcast, you might like this podcast too.
ALEX: The real, the real Patreon is the, the friends that we made along the way, you could say.
BOBBY: No, the real Patreon is the patreon.com\tippingpitches where you can sign up and give us money so that we could maybe do this podcast full time one day. That’s the real Patreon. But, but the metaphorical Patreon is the friends we made along the way.
ALEX: Yes, so always, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts. If you’d like to call in with a listener question. Drop us a voicemail at 785-422-5881. You can also slide into our DMs on Twitter @tipping_pitches. Or if you go on for the long form question, shoot us an email tippingpitchespod@gmail.com.
BOBBY: Thank you everyone for listening. We’ll be back in your feeds in one week.
[1:10:29][Music]
[1:10:38][Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most, Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya!
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
Leave a comment