Bobby and Alex trade prospective “get off my lawn” takes they’ll hold in future years, then take stock of the settlement in Senne v. MLB and how it might play into the future minor league economic system, discuss the recent ill-fated ventures into cryptocurrency around the league, and determine which players are certified Cool and decidedly Uncool.
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Senne v. MLB comes to a settlement
MLB partners with Sorare for NFT game
Nationals announce an ill-timed Terra partnership
Songs featured in this episode:
Nelly — “Heart of a Champion” • My Chemical Romance — “The Foundations of Decay” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and, and, and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about? That’s amazing! That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, I spent some time this past week with my older cousins. They’re in their 50s, 60s, they’re older gentlemen. They’re baseball fans, but they’re a little bit older. We’re talking about the Mets, talking about the Yankees. They’re asking me if there might be a Subway Series this year? But then they got started talking about, you know, there’s sort of more get off my lawn opinions about how starters should complete, should throw complete games. And all the rule changes are awful. Which, ironically enough are things that you and I agree with.
ALEX: Right. It’s kind of a weird, like horseshoe theory of Baseball.
BOBBY: Yes, exactly. But it got me thinking, you know, if that is the crotchety old man take for them in 2022. What might be our version of that 35 years from now, when we’re that age? Look into the future and tell me what you think is going to be your crotchety old man opinion. That you’re sharing over lunch, over three quarters Italian dinner lunch. With your younger cousins, when they want to hear some, some Baseball wisdom from you.
ALEX: That’s such a hard question, because it’s so hard to determine what bizarre changes will come about in baseball over that time, right?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Like, am I still gonna be going off on banning the shift at that point, once the shift is entirely banned?
BOBBY: That will feel like settled, a settled conversation, though the DH conversation. After the American League introduced it continued basically until the present.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: That’s not fun, though, you already feel that way.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: Throw me something out creative.
ALEX: Well, so then it has to be something that, that is not a part of the conversation at this point, right? People weren’t talking in the 60s and 70s, about how starters need to go longer. Because they were doing that at the time, right? So what is–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –what is the change that’s going to happen in the game that, that maybe radically alters our understanding, our consumption of it? Will players returned to hitting the ball the other way? And I’m going to say, man–
BOBBY: I miss all those pull–
ALEX: –back in–
BOBBY: –pulled home runs.
ALEX: –back in my day, players knew how to utilize that launch angle. Maybe, perhaps there will be a, a new advanced stat that comes about. And I say I remember when we just figured out who the best player in baseball was by WAR.
BOBBY: Like WAR becomes the new RBIs basically?
ALEX: Right. Or batting average or like wins or something like that.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I feel like that might be where, where I end up just because it’s like a such a poor understanding of how I interpret the game, right? Is a lot of the sabermetrics that are very in vogue right now, right? wRC+, these, these things that may seem–
BOBBY: [3:39]
ALEX: –seem a little bit opaque to the previous generation. I am certain that, that the generation that comes after us will decide that defense is the most important part of, of WAR and hitting is devalued completely. I’ll say–
BOBBY: Just a league full of Ben Reveres.
ALEX: Right, exactly. I mean, or I mean, this has already happened, right? But like, stolen bases, will stolen bases be so completely devalued? That they’re a rarity in the game, as they kind of already are, right? But will they be on the verge of extinction, to, to the point where I’m just begging a, you know, six foot, 250 pound first baseman to just try and make a scramble for second base?
BOBBY: So I think that the gameplay changes happen so gradually, that I don’t think that I’ll ever get quite as crotchety about them. As I will definitely get about the incoming, I guess, technological revolution of the sport. Meaning like, remember when Clint was on the podcast, for The All-GIF draft? And he’s Buck Showalter, and then we were like anything else on your mind, anything you want plug? And he decided to just do a two and a half minute rant about how baseball is not supposed to involve this much technology.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: The thing that makes it interesting and wonderful is that you can, you can understand it just by looking with your eyes using your hands, using your feet. It’s just a very, it’s like a very tactile experience. And we’ve already seen the introduction of the pitch calm, which I don’t have strong feelings about necessarily. And we’re about to get robot umpires within the next 5 to 10 years. And that will lead you to believe that 35 years from now, there will be like a ton of tech. And therefore, like there will be tech companies with active investments in trying to win contracts for Major League Baseball. So I know that’s kind of like a general answer. But I think like the digitization of the game, I think will, will come to annoy me more than it already does. Like when you have to learn how to code to play baseball, competitively, I’m going to be pissed.
ALEX: Right. When, when you are majoring in computer science, as opposed to like sports management–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: –you know.
BOBBY: Exactly. Because it helps you better understand like the big data that you get fed by your coaches like, ahh.. Nah!
ALEX: So basically we’re saying the sport is about to become a bunch of nerds.
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: And we remember when it was just jocks who had nothing bouncing around in their heads, they just knew how to, how to swing a bat and throw a ball.
BOBBY: Right. We need to go the other way. I know that the whole like dog in him thing has been overused in, in the past two weeks since it became a meme. But we need, we need more focus on the dog and him of baseball. Rather than the zeros and ones of the game.
ALEX: Right. And this is obviously nothing to say of like, the, the technological future that’s already upon us around sports betting and fucking blockchain, which, which we will get to, right? And, and who knows if that’s something that exists 30 years from now, or if we’re about to hear a big old pop? But I feel like I will, I will certainly yearn for the days when I collected baseball cards instead of like, JPEGs, you know.
BOBBY: Counterpoint. My, my memes folder is looking pretty good.
ALEX: It’s true.
BOBBY: It’s looking pretty good.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I’ve built up the foundation. I have like 10 or 15 that I go to regularly.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I haven’t even used like 50% of them.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: They’re just in there, just in case, just in case the right situation comes–
ALEX: Brake in case of emergency meme folder.
BOBBY: Exactly, exactly. So maybe the, maybe the JPEG-ification of Baseball is a good thing? I don’t know–
ALEX: I–
BOBBY: –to be, to be determined.
ALEX: –we have traded a brand around GIFs. So I suppose we can’t talk too much off our high horse.
BOBBY: I just know that like, within the next 50 years, you actually won’t be able to go watch a baseball game in person. Like it’ll have to be some sort of digital barrier to it. Or they’re going to try to do that. And there’ll be a revolt. But what, what we’re seeing right now going to a baseball game of 50,000 people? I think 50 years that’ll probably be, be dead and I’ll be pissed about it.
ALEX: You certainly–
BOBBY: [8:10]
ALEX: –and it’s because of that it exists, right now.
BOBBY: By then we’ll have like robots with consciousness that always sit in the same seats and you can just inhabit one of them. Instead of actually like taking the seven train to City Field. You just like put on a–
ALEX: Right [8:25] VR.
BOBBY: –Oculus headset.
ALEX: Yep.
BOBBY: Yeah. And your quote unquote, “At the game”, nah, fuck that!
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Fuck that! That’s my prediction.
ALEX: I’m on board with that.
BOBBY: It seems eminently plausible. With the direction that, that society is heading.
ALEX: Yep! Piped in audio noise.
BOBBY: Then it won’t even matter if the field is on fire. Because of climate change.
ALEX: That’s true.
BOBBY: The players will just play through it.
ALEX: So maybe it’s a good thing, right? We’ve, we want them to stick sports anyway.
BOBBY: Or maybe there’ll be robots on the field like Rock’em Sock’em Robots, and they put on a VR headset to and they’re just playing MLB: The Show.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Or dream of making the majors realize.
ALEX: I think the future we’re describing is just out of the park in baseball. Like Major League Baseball purchases it and says, people seem to enjoy this.
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: This is, this is our sport now.
BOBBY: This is the beautiful future that we always imagined on Tipping Pitches. When we talk about how can we make a better sport. We believe a better sport is possible where there’s actually no players and no fans and it all happens online. Okay, we’re going to talk about as Alex alluded to, the crypto crash and how it interacts with Major League Baseball in absurd ways. We’re going to talk about Stan versus MLB, which is the minor league lawsuit that was just settled this past week. And then we’re going to do a fun listener question for the back half of the podcast. But before we do all of that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I am Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[Music Theme]
BOBBY: Okay, before we get into it, a quick shout out to all of our new patrons from this past week. If you listened last week, you know that we had to read every single new patron, which was 142 names. We don’t have that many names to read this week. Though, still, still a good showing from everyone, so much appreciated. Thank you to Stratton, Zach, Olive, Abel, Referu, Peter, Jess, William, Coco, Eric, Abby, Zack, and Chris.
ALEX: Thank you, Mari, Coleen, Jesse, Peter, Drew, Mike, Dan, Bill, Sarah, Samantha, Tom, Sarah, and Jay.
BOBBY: Reading this many names in a row always feels like you’re reading like a top 100 baby names in the US list. And there’s so many repeats. But we love, we love all of you equally. Thank you so much to everybody who signed up this week or last week, or at all. As a reminder, it’s patreon.com\tippingpitches, three tiers, you get great stuff in all of them. And you get access to the slack by signing up to any of them. And the slack is absolutely going off. It’s, it’s a fun way to procrastinate doing my work during the day.
ALEX: Yeah, it’s like, did you wish Twitter was, was just people who held your same worldview about the sport we love? You love an echo chamber?
BOBBY: Horrible sales pitch by Alex! It’s more like do you wish Twitter was fun?
ALEX: Yep. Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Period.
ALEX: Yeah. Not filled with toxicity.
BOBBY: And Alex and I are in the slack popping in and out of different channels, talking music, sharing photos of ourselves from the pub concert.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Shout out, shout out to our man, Anthony, who we ran into at the pub concert.
ALEX: That’s right.
BOBBY: Very nice to meet you, sir. Let’s get into it, Alex. We’re going to start by talking about Stan versus MLB, which was a class action lawsuit, which is a class action lawsuit. Which has been going on for eight years now. It’s gone up and down through the courts and made it all the way to the Supreme Court to determine whether it was eligible to be a class action lawsuit, they made a ruling on that. The parameters of it cover quite a few people now at this point. And it centers around the fact that Minor League Baseball players are, should not be considered seasonal employees basically. And because of that must be paid for any work that they have travel to, must be paid for their travel time, things like this. So this lawsuit which a judge in California preliminarily ruled, before they even went to trial, that many of the minor leaguers were already owed damages. It was like a preliminary judgment before all the evidence was even put forward. It’s safe to say that this had, had potential to be both financially and reputationally very damaging to Major League Baseball. And they’re 30 teams, because basically every, every team is affected the same because they’re all legally colluding with each other. It was settled this past week. We don’t know the terms of the settlement agreement yet. And they’re not set to come out for another few weeks at the earliest. So we’ll talk about them more in detail when they do. But, but I’m curious what you think this means for the sort of rising tide movement of making progress in the better treatment of minor leaguers. That we’ve been chronicling for the last two and a half years of doing the show.
ALEX: Yeah, and I mean, that’s, that’s the really tough thing to tr- to try and predict, right? Because as you mentioned, there was a, there was a ruling by, by Judge Joseph Spero in California. Back in March, that, that said MLB was in fact violating California wage law. And suggested that, that damages could be in the range of $2 million. And I think it was it seemed relatively evident that Major League Baseball was, was not interested in leaving it up to the courts to decide that they are owed millions more than that to minor league players outside of California. So there is obviously, there’s the outstanding size of the potential settlement, which again, could, you know, we may not learned about until as, as late as early July. But then there’s the factor of how Spero’s ruling will impact Minor League Baseball’s wage structure moving forward, right? Because at this point, he has ruled that they were acting illegally. And I mean, I guess they could keep doing it.
BOBBY: Yes, a company violating wage law has not necessarily precluded them from violating wage law in the future.
ALEX: Right, yes.
BOBBY: But I think that long, long, rich history in America of companies continually violating wage law and not getting punished for it.
ALEX: Yeah. But certainly the size and scope of this lawsuit combined with the increasing public scrutiny of the actions of Major League Baseball, when it comes two minor league players. I think it’s probably enough for them to maybe start to reevaluate what that payment structure looks like. Now, does this mean they’re going to voluntarily recognize minor league players as year round MLB employees? No, I think arguably, nothing short of a union will actually get Major League Baseball on board with that. But it, it may impact things like you said, like payment during spring training. Like compensation for time it takes to travel to games. Payment for work that players are required to do in the offseason.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: This will come nowhere near to compensating them for the actual value that they’re providing for teams right now. But if it means that players are making more than 8, 9, 10 thousand dollars in a year? I think it’s, it’s something, it’s some sort of movement. And you and I were discussing earlier in the week, how we really felt about the decision to settle because on–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –the one hand–
BOBBY: Standing around waiting for [16:34] come on talking about the minor league settlement.
ALEX: [16:36]. On the one hand, there are hundreds of players who are owed back pay due to these violations of wage law. On the other hand, if you go to trial, there’s obviously much broader implications that it could have on, on the sport, and there’s probably a lot that would come out in a sort of trial like that.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: That would leave Major League Baseball, very vulnerable, even more so than they already are. Both to having to owe even more in damages, and letting things see the light of the day that maybe they are not so inclined to let see the, the light of day.
BOBBY: Yeah, I think, so, I think oftentimes, when we talk about the role of the justice system, in the world of labor, at large, we have this false dichotomy where you can either settle and like get more cash immediately, upfront. Or you can ride it out to its bitter end, and try to do the righteous thing of exposing the company, in this case, MLB and it’s 30 teams, for the true nefariousness of their practices. And the reason that we presume most companies would prefer to settle is because they don’t want to go to discovery. And they don’t want what you’re describing to happen. They don’t want you and me to be talking about what they told a player when the player was like, did you guys violate California wage law? And they lied to him. And now we’re here with this trial. They just don’t want those things to come to the light of day, and it’s a headache for them. And so they may pay a little more upfront, they may give a slightly larger settlement, they may add a 10% bonus. A 10 30% premium on top of what these people are actually owed, in order to not have to go to trial. Now, I say that’s a false dichotomy, because not for good reasons, for bad reasons. Because the righteous element that taking it through the courts element doesn’t always work. In fact, most of the time doesn’t work how you intended it to. We might go to discovery and you and I might learn, you and I in the greater baseball media world might learn exactly what MLB was doing to fuck with minor leaguers. And we might have that information to work with for the fight for the future. But that might not actually help the people that need the help. That might actually help get money in the pockets of the members of this class action lawsuit. Which is what a lawsuit is for. Organizing and changing the Minor League Baseball system is not going to happen because of this lawsuit. You can use the momentum from a lawsuit like this. And I think that’s where you where you and I have to wait and see what’s in the agreement, the settlement agreement before we determine whether or not it would have been better to kind of wait it out and go all the way through. It would have been better for the, the movement to unionize Minor League Baseball to wait it out and go all the way through and hold MLBs feet to the fire. But it’s not always going to, it’s not up to us to determine that. Like that’s what the lawyers are for. They determined what to recommend as a settlement agreement. And then the, the client determines if that’s a better option for them. And, and it probably is, it, if we’re being honest, it probably is better for these minor leaguers who are in the class action lawsuit to settle it. I have no idea whether it’s better or not for like the unionize the minors crowd. Which we are obviously a vocal part of. But after having rambled on about the, the sort of two options that you have, for the last five minutes, I will, I will close by saying this, which is that, we shouldn’t need this lawsuit. Or, or people who are on the fence about whether we should fix Minor League Baseball shouldn’t need this lawsuit to change their minds about that. Like we already have mountains and mountains and mountains of evidence of really poor treatment by a billion dollar teams. Multibillion dollar teams with multibillion dollar owners who are profiting like they never have before off of the sport. We already have all of that evidence. So organize, and get out in the field and actually get enough people on board to eventually unionize Minor League Baseball. I don’t know that this lawsuit would have been make or break in that effort. But I think that, I think that some people rightfully get a lot of hope when they see legal proceedings coming against the company. I just don’t think that that is often the reason that you get large structural changes. Like we got free, free agency is in Major League Baseball, because of the Curt Flood court case, but he lost that court case. They only got that because of the organization that happened after they lost the court case. So my knee jerk reaction was to be like, ah, they settled, I wish we would have taken this all the way through. But then I had to sit with that for a little while and be like, that’s maybe not the right opinion to have right away. And so we know and understand the settlement agreement and how it helps the people involved in it.
ALEX: Yeah, this is one data point. This is one puzzle piece that fits into that larger movement. And at the very least sets a sort of precedent that you actually can take on an organization like Major League Baseball, which wields incredible social and political power and win. So like, it feels more like the one of the first dominoes to fall than the, the really big one, right?
BOBBY: Yeah, I agree. It’s not, no one thing is the end all be all of this organizational effort. Okay, shall we move on to MLB’s other large shady structural practices?
ALEX: Right, speaking of dominoes falling.
BOBBY: That’s a much better segue. Congratulations on winning the segway off for this episode of Tipping Pitches. Alex, crypto it’s not sent a little bit of a slump, we might say in baseball terms. It’s cratering.
ALEX: It’s got the yips.
BOBBY: It’s got the yips, let’s get to. You know way more about this than me, because you went on one of your 2am. rabbit hole deep dives into what the hell is going on? And what MLB is association with this is. And so you wanted to talk a little bit about how, how much MLB has opened themselves up here, like left themselves unprotected with how quickly and aggressively they’ve dived into the crypto space.
ALEX: There were kind of two pieces of crypto related news that came out of baseball this week, right? One was that Major League Baseball and the Players Association announced a, a new venture in partnership with Sorare.
BOBBY: How confident are you that it’s not Sarare? On a scale of 1 to 10, how confident? Come on! There’s a little party that’s like it could be Sarare?
ALEX: Yeah, well, I’m like, I’m like a three.
BOBBY: But then like, it’s a crypto thing. So it’s probably like Sorare, bro. Like they probably thought of that. And they were like we’ll just put those words together and name with that. Elon will think this is so cool.
ALEX: Yeah, exactly. Well, becoming rarer and rarer as we speak. They announced a, a forthcoming game with So- Sorare, Sorare. Which is already known for it’s relatively popular NFT Soccer games over in Europe.
BOBBY: How relative are we talking?
ALEX: Right. As, as popular as a NFT-based fantasy Soccer game can be. I don’t know man Soccer is bigger than in Europe than Baseball is in the US.
BOBBY: That’s true. More users than listeners of this podcast. So we don’t have that much room to talk.
ALEX: Right. Exactly. MLB announced a, what is essentially a version of that, that they are positioning as a sort of engagement tool for fans a way for fans to see collect virtual cards, build these, these virtual teams. Compete against other players, all based on how the players are actually performing on the field. Which I see no pr- no problem with creating tradable pieces of electronic currency tied to the real world value of human beings, I think it’s a very good idea. I, I see no potential issues regarding ethics or morals in this whatsoever.
BOBBY: Every time someone tries to describe something in the crypto world to me, it’s like, the ultimate end goal is something that already exists. This is just fantasy sports.
ALEX: Yep. Uh-hmm. This is failed–
BOBBY: Fantasy sports–
ALEX: This is failed–
BOBBY: –fantasies–
ALEX: Right, meets, meets the, the fake stock market. The details on this are, are relatively sparse. We know that you will, you will be gifted some, some free cards when you sign up. You can collect cards as you go on.
BOBBY: Your first trip to the Caribbean is free. But the ones after that you have to get three people to come with you, in order for you to go free.
ALEX: Now, the, this, this game is, is, as I mentioned, popular among soccer fans in Europe. It’s also somewhat controversial, because cash prizes are paid out to users, it’s pretty, entirely unregulated. There is actually relatively little known about the where the money is actually coming from. It’s a, it’s a hedge fund that is composed of a, a group of players that, that back these cash prizes. That element isn’t going to exist in the Baseball version. So not covering, covering their asses and in one space. But it was, it was certainly, it, it made waves on Baseball Twitter. I think because of the recent volatility of the NFT market, right? There’s obviously we heard a lot about NBA Top Shot early last year, and its incredible valuation and its subsequent, incredible cratering.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm. Who could have seen that coming?
ALEX: As I mentioned, little is known about the mechanics of the game, so we can’t speak too much to that. The other news item that came out this week, which was, which tracked far more with current events was the Washington Nationals partnership with Terra. Which is a, a blockchain network that creates an, an algorithmic stable coin. Which is supposed to be less volatile than your average crypto currency. It’s supposed to be pegged to the US dollar. There’s a, there’s a, there’s a lot that goes into it. And the Washington Nationals tweeted out a very helpful video kind of breaking it down. Crypto 101, presented by Terra, that happened to be on the day that Terra decoupled from the US dollar and went directly into the tank. As of today, you actually cannot trade or use Terra, it has been been halted by the blockchain markets. Oooh… Once again, I’m not sure who could have seen this coming. But both of these speak to baseball’s desperation, their their desperate desire to create new pathways into the game, right? To hopefully broaden the the market of fans who say may not be as interested in baseball but have more of an interest in crypto. Or the, the average baseball fan, who says hey, here’s a new way to engage. And the obvious glaring problem here is that very little is known–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –about, about a lot of these stable coins, and they’re actually, what do you call it? Stability!
BOBBY: I think, well, number one, I think MLB isn’t so far over their head. They’re just, they just seem like a brand right now. That takes a lot of meetings and it’s easily swayed.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like let’s get into and, and this is true of like all sports leagues, where they think that their sport needs to be some- somehow like a government? Like they need to do all types of things. They need to centralize power by having a little bit of put their hand in, in every element of society. We can’t just let the crypto fad go by without having the Nationals partner with Terra. Or the Mets partner with TEZO’s. Or the NBA, officially, partner with NBA Top Shot. We have to, we have to be a part of it. And that, that’s true of all leagues, but MLB’s feel so out of touch with reality. Because for the most part, they are like a very traditional sport, and a very traditional sports league that has leveraged something that makes sense to a lot of people and make sense of their product to make a lot of money and that’s television. And so when they try to make these forays into things that they clearly don’t, don’t know about. They’re, there’s mere seconds away from showing their ass at all, at all time, at all moments in time.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And I just wonder, when I see stuff like this, I just wonder why it has to be like this? Why can’t you just be a sport? Just, just be a sport, like people like your sport. So just be a sport.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Don’t be a bank. Don’t be a real estate development company. Don’t be a political lobbying firm. Don’t be a consulting company. Don’t be a big data firm.
ALEX: The list goes on.
BOBBY: No, I’m serious, though. Like, and if you are going to be something, be like a force for societal good, which they never are. MLB is never like, we’re going to make sure we stop climate change. MLB’s never like, you know what, we’re gonna try to lobby so that we can pack the Supreme Court. They’re never like–
ALEX: Do match.
BOBBY: –they’re never doing anything that actually helps. Like anyone really, but, but honestly, that never it helps. They’re never doing anything that helps a majority or plurality of the people who actually liked their sport. They’re never using any of their power and acclaim and political influence to do that. They’re just doing stuff like this.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: They’re just, they’re just like taking checks from crypto companies.
ALEX: Right. This is this is like the New York Yankees in 2007. Saying, we heard about these subprime mortgages.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: You can, you can use them at our ballpark.
BOBBY: I don’t think they were calling them subprime mortgages at the time.
ALEX: But no, I mean, and the thing about crypto is that it has value ascribed to it, insofar as all of the users agree that it has value ascribed to it.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Right? And like that’s, that is kind of central to the, the downfall of Terra, which was thought to be leading the way for this more stable form of, of crypto currency. And then there was a run on the bank. And everyone said, hang on a second–
BOBBY: Tail as all this time.
ALEX: –it might, I, it might be time to cash out.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I mean, ultimately, I’m, I’m not sure how much the Washington, the Nationals care as long as the checks keep clearing.
BOBBY: Yeah, that’s not going to keep happening, but yeah.
ALEX: Right. Well, exactly, right? And it’s it feels like it’s only a matter of time, before a team or an owner or something like that inextri- inextricably ties their wealth or their success to a fundamentally unstable market, right? I mean, it was just a year ago, that we were joking about Steve Cohen’s hedge fund, propping up the short position against GameStop, right? And subsequently–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –burning through–
BOBBY: 10s of millions of dollars.
ALEX: –quite, quite a lot of money.
BOBBY: Hundreds of millions of dollars.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: So like this is far from the first time this sort of thing has happened. But what is frightening is it seems to be far from the last time that it will happen. And you start to wonder when they will learn their lesson. And they just seem so anxious to try and be on the cutting edge. Without really properly doing a Wikipedia search of let me see if the person I’m going into business with is currently being hunted down by the SEC. Because the, the creator of Terra was at the time the Nationals linked their deal.
BOBBY: I think overextended is the word that I would use to describe MLB and most of its individual teams, overextended. They’re trying to do too much And the result is no fan feels spoken to. You said something that I thought was interesting, which is that presumably the company line with crypto partnerships, NBA Top Shot, memorabilia markets. Presumably the reason that they are so interested in it or what they would tell you if you sat them down at a press conference is, oh, this is such an interesting way to get new people interested in the sport. Like maybe you don’t like baseball because you didn’t grow up playing Little League. But you might care about cryptocurrency. And so you might like us because now we are telling you we care about cryptocurrency. But here’s the problem, anyone who knows anything about cryptocurrency or doesn’t even have to be crypto, it can be anything. Anyone who knows anything about crypto knows that MLB doesn’t know anything about crypto. So who is the, who’s the crypto bro who doesn’t give one fuck about Mike Trout? Who’s going to be like now I’m gonna get really into baseball the product?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Now I’m going to start going to games.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Now I’m going to buy MLB TV, that, that person does not exist. I challenge anyone listening to this podcast if I knew one person who was like, yeah, I got super into the Nats. Man, Nelson Cruz having a, having a tough year. You know why I got into them? I was, I had a lot had a big position on Terra.
ALEX: Yep, I was, I was able to buy a hot dog with my, with my Terra coin. Right, they’re not, they’re not selling baseball.
BOBBY: No!
ALEX: And, and to be frank, they haven’t been for a while.
BOBBY: I know. But like, if that’s the company in line, though, if the reason that you are partnering with Terra is because you want to get crypto people into Baseball, it’s obviously not. Just fucking spend your time making little league more accessible.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: That will do way better–
ALEX: [36:51] investments.
BOBBY: –forgetting [36:52] in the next couple decades. Like you want to, you want people to like baseball? Help people play baseball.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: You know why I like Baseball? Played it. You know why Alex likes Baseball? He played it. Do you know why most of the people who are we friends with like baseball? They or someone they know played it.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Or their parents played it and showed them it at a young age.
ALEX: Yeah. I mean, and the, the cynical response to that is, you, you can’t make money off of a kid liking Little League., right? You can’t–
BOBBY: No, but you can, though.
ALEX: I, I mean, yes, I know.
BOBBY: They, I, I know, because I’m giving them so much money. I am giving them four figures, 1000s of dollars a year of my own money just to consume their product. And it’s has nothing to do with what they did. It has to do with the fact that I played Little League, and I fell in love with the game. And this is the best version of the game that I can watch now. Period. And it’s, it’s confounding to me that they’re not more concerned about creating more people like us. And preferably more people who don’t necessarily look like us. Because they have never catered to people who don’t look like us in a thoughtful or creative way. And it’s just weird, like for this group of, quote unquote, “like old school owners”. Or a traditionalist sport that we think baseball to be. It’s weird that they don’t think like that, but they don’t think about the long term investment. Like these are like real estate guys. These are stock market guys. These are old money, old world people. They should understand that investing now, in growing the game would actually pay off for them in not that long. But they don’t seem to understand that.
ALEX: Right. Well, and I think it’s, part of that is, they are not interested in the long term because they are, are not for the, the long term, right? Lots of these guys–
BOBBY: More like they’re gonna be dead.
ALEX: I mean, what good is the health of the sport [38:57]–
BOBBY: [38:57] Alex? Are you threatening the owners of the podcast?
ALEX: I am certainly not threatening John Fisher whatsoever.
BOBBY: John Fisher, you are not being threatened at all.
ALEX: Once again, this podcast is parody.
BOBBY: What?! So, so you are threatening in there. You’re saying you’re not threatening him and that it’s parody. Get your story straight, sir.
ALEX: Yeah, I, I mean, yeah, it’s, it’s unfortunate that they choose instead of choosing to build the game from the ground up at the community level, they are instead choosing to cash out in very obvious Ponzi schemes. That–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –frankly, are preying on actual individuals–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: –who are, I, to put it lightly having their lives ruined by this sort of thing.
BOBBY: If we’re to get super 20 Something lefty galaxy brain theory of, of global capitalism about it, it does kind of reflect a larger shift in how billionaires think about their income streams. Where if you were a real estate Baron in like, the 20th century, you were like, oh, I’ll just corner the market on building houses and I’ll own all of the means of production. Then I’ll sell the houses and then I’ll make a ton of money. And now it’s like, why would I do all of that when I could just be a slumlord? That’s like the shift in society and it’s also the shift in Baseball. These are just 30 ownership groups being slumlords with our sport.
ALEX: Right. Well–
BOBBY: Ruining it and also profiting off of it at the same time. They’re not improving the product, they’re letting it become dilapidated. And they understand that they don’t have to invest any of their own money to continue to turn a profit off.
ALEX: Right. Well, if you look at the increasing wealth disparity in both the US and around the world, I think they’re saying hmm, who do we want to be in bed with? The, the, the 98% who might love the game but have very little money to give us? Or the, the for the folks at the top? Who don’t give two shits about baseball. But will allow me to pad my pocket book a little bit? I don’t know, man. I, it feels too obvious to say out loud sometimes.
BOBBY: That capitalism is the problem?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: It’s been a while since we’ve done one of these.
ALEX: Yeah, exactly.
BOBBY: Okay, you have anything else on crypto? You want to any investment advice for people? Is now the time to buy the dip.
ALEX: Right, ex- yes, it is!
BOBBY: You get credentialed to go to a Mike Rizzo press conference and you ask him, Mike, should I buy the dip on Terra?
ALEX: The thing is I think he has no fucking clue what Terra is.
BOBBY: Hey, Juan Soto, nice to meet you. Alex Bazeley, from Tipping Pitches here. I know that you had a little bit of a slow start to the season and you’re starting to turn it around. Do you think that Terra can do the same?
ALEX: Right. Is it time to buy in on Ethereum>
BOBBY: Okay, we’re gonna take a quick break. When we come back we are going to do each five capital “C”, Cool players and five lowercase “u” uncool players.
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Okay, Alex. For listening this late in the podcast, you probably know that we have a Patreon. You might even be signed up for that Patreon. You might have even seen this question in the podcast mailbag Slack channel, which you can get access to if you sign up for that patreon@patreon.com\tippingpitches. This question came from longtime listener, many time question asker. One of our faves, Becca, who first presented an argument that she was having with her friend. currently in an argument with a friend who was a Yankees fan who thinks Anthony Rizzo is cooler than Tim Anderson. I disagree. Who were a few players that you guys think are capital “C”, Cool, and lowercase “u”, uncool? Now I thought this was a very good question. So we decided to make it the entire last segment of this podcast, we are going to answer that question by naming five cool and five uncool players. First, I want to, I want to make a ruling on Becca’s argument with her friend. There’s absolutely no world in which Anthony Rizzo is cooler than Tim Anderson. I’m sorry. Even if you think Anthony Rizzo is cool, which I’m not convinced. I think he’s nice. I think he’s fun. I think he’s good hang. He’s probably a good friend.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: If he was in this room right now, I think the three of us would be having a good time.
ALEX: Well, and here’s the thing.
BOBBY: But I don’t think that I would be like when he left, I don’t think I’d be like that guy.
ALEX: [43:46]
BOBBY: Cool. Cool.
ALEX: I will say, now, so Anthony Rizzo isn’t on my capital “C”, Cool players list. However, he does remain the only current MLB player who has walked up to a Taylor Swift song. So the jury might still be out on.
BOBBY: Okay, but Swifties we’re not all cool.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: Like in fact, maybe a point towards uncool–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –if you are a Swifty.
ALEX: But, but if you’re–
BOBBY: Like, if we’re, if we’re doing it the system, the how the good place does it where like, every action that you have is either a point towards you getting to the good place or a point towards you going to the bad place.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Swiftly is probably a bad place, more often than not.
ALEX: Yeah, true. Though, is it, is it a point in cools favor, that he is unabashedly a Swifty?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Right?
BOBBY: See now we’re, now we’re cooking with gas. This is–
ALEX: Yeah, exactly.
BOBBY: –this is where our headspace is? Either way, Tim Anderson is cooler.
ALEX: Yes. Yeah!
BOBBY: I’ve shared space with Tim Anderson. He is as cool as he looks on TV, potentially even cooler.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Tim Anderson doesn’t even pretend to know other players in his division, if he’s never played against them before.
ALEX: That’s the coolest fucking thing I’ve ever heard.
BOBBY: He just goes out, and he just plays baseball. He started playing baseball in high school and he is already one of the best shortstops. On the face of the planet, he’s a, he’s a cool guy, he’s a cool guy. I’ll let you do the honors of going first. Let’s, let’s trade off between our cool and uncool lists. It will be pretty obvious which, which list these guys fall under.
ALEX: Yeah. And I, and I want to say I’ve, in both categories, I’ve, I’ve elected to leave off some of the more obvious ones. Especially when it comes to, to the cool guys. I, I think Sean Doolittle might be the coolest player in baseball.
BOBBY: See- okay, wait. Sean Doolittle is the most with it player in baseball. But is he cool?
ALEX: I think he is. Yes.
BOBBY: See, I think when I saw like, capital “C”, Cool, I was picturing like, suave. I don’t think–
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: –Sean is like–
ALEX: No!
BOBBY: Sean is like Sean rocks.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: But is he cool? Sean is dope. But is he cool?
ALEX: Okay, I mean, that’s, that’s interesting. We should have, we should have set the definitions of, of cool, right.
BOBBY: I mean, he’s cool. Like–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –he’s cool that he like Star Wars. It is cool that he likes metal–
ALEX: [46:13]
BOBBY: –and he’s cool he’s actually a lefty [46:15]–
ALEX: [46:15]
BOBBY: Yeah, he’s cool. But is he cool?
ALEX: Right. Okay. All right. So here’s–
BOBBY: He walked in the room, you’d be like, that’s a normal guy that I can have a conversation with. You wouldn’t be like, he’s so cool. I can’t talk to him.
ALEX: Right. Yeah, fair. Okay. So–
BOBBY: Say that, but then my list violates that rule.
ALEX: No!
BOBBY: So it’s fine, it’s fine. I’m a fraud.
ALEX: First cool guy, maybe the most obvious one in, in Major League Baseball right now. And that’s Jazz Chisholm Jr. Probably the, the coolest player in the sport at the moment.
BOBBY: Yeah, he’s pretty cool.
ALEX: Between the, the way that he plays the game, which is just with such a bravado, and swagger. And the way that he talks about the game, which is with both a, a reverence for it, and also a desire for it to feature more of that bravado and swagger. I am, and the fact that he has blue hair.
BOBBY: Yeah, blue hair.
ALEX: Ice cool. Yep. Yeah.
BOBBY: You should dye your hair blue.
ALEX: I could do like maybe like a, like a blue like strip, you know?
BOBBY: Oooh, yeah.
ALEX: Like real–
BOBBY: Can you grow–
ALEX: –like [47:18] face.
BOBBY: Yes. Yes. Like dashboard confessional. over one eye.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And the hair that’s going over one is blue.
ALEX: Yeah. I mean, My Chemical Romance just dropped a new song. So we’re trending in that direction.
BOBBY: –right, they did. Not only did they just drop a new song, it’s the song that’s gonna play this podcast out. Because it’s my turn to pick the music this week. I guess I’m giving that away. It’s supposed to be a little game that people play. It’s gonna be pretty obvious. Okay, my first cool guy. You know who’s cool? Starling Marte.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Yes, sir!
BOBBY: He is cool as fuck, I don’t even know how to describe it. He’s a super nice looking guy. He’s confident, he has a swagger. He’s got the buttons unbuttoned like super, super low down to the middle of his chest. He, he wears the jewelry. He never looks uncomfortable on the field, which I feel like is an important part to being one of the coolest baseball players–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –in the league. And you know, everything, everything with his style. The haircut is always fresh. The beard is always tended to. This is a cool guy.
ALEX: He’s cool. Also good at baseball. Helps, helps to be good.
BOBBY: He’s pretty good.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’s pretty good. Worth it.
ALEX: Steals, steals bases, you know what’s cool?
BOBBY: Stealing bases.
ALEX: Stealing bases.
BOBBY: Yes, stealing bases is fucking cool as hell. Okay. It’s your turn to do an uncool guy.
ALEX: Okay, you know who’s uncool? Blake Snell. So–
BOBBY: [48:43]
ALEX: Corniest motherfucker in the league.
BOBBY: Wow. Wow, he’s gonna put us on blast on Twitch.
ALEX: I hope he does. Him in his like Black Scent like–
BOBBY: Yeah, Yup!
ALEX: He, he’s just goofy. He’s a guy that tries so hard to be cool. And I feel like that characterizes maybe a lot of the guys on my uncoolest is guys who are like, no, I am cool. Like–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –as soon as you come out and put yourself forth as a cool guy, you’re uncool.
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: Sorry.
BOBBY: I agree. His, his 97-mile an hour fastball from the left side is pretty cool sometimes, though.
ALEX: Yeah!
BOBBY: No, he hasn’t been very good for like three years. But–
ALEX: [49:26]
BOBBY: [49:27] to each their own. My first uncool player fits that same description that you just described. He, he tries really, really, really hard to be cool. Last you think I’m a, a Mets homer choosing Sterling Marte, as my first cool player. I’m choosing Pete Alonso as my first uncool player.
ALEX: Yes, sir.
BOBBY: This is maybe a little bit too obvious. He is so uncool that it’s almost cool, but it’s not.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: He is incredibly awkward, both physically and I think like spiritually? Like in the way that he talks and the things that he likes. And he got his polar bear nickname from, from Todd Frazier. Because of the way he like walks around, he kind of looks like a polar bear when he goes up on. When polar bears go up on their two legs.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And that’s true, but that makes you uncool. The pre- the prevailing image that I think of when I think of Pete being uncool is him just bobbing his head at the Home Run Derby. While, like, I don’t even remember Mobb Deep was playing.
ALEX: Right, right.
BOBBY: Okay, you’re from Florida,
ALEX: Right. Yeah, the ultimate try hard he’s good at baseball. So what are you, what are you gonna do?
BOBBY: Yeah, he’s good at some things. Okay, cool, cool guy. Your turn.
ALEX: It should be a call guy? Jose Ramirez.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Just, just does his, it does his thing–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –unabashedly, I think that his cool factor was admittedly heightened when Francisco Lindor played directly to the left of them. Because they are both extremely cool. And when you’re in the presence of someone else who radiates that coolness, I think they kind of, they, they double down on each other. I. I think I’ve said this before, but like, I love the way he walks up to the plate. Like he does not look like he’s about to be a 40-40 player or one of the best disheveled. Yes. When he walks up to the plate, right? Huge, huge cheek full of two. It’s like, like, it almost is ruffian. Right. Yeah. Where I’m like, This guy is not one of the one of the best players of his generation.
BOBBY: Kind of like he’s doing a bit.
ALEX: That’s right.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Swings out of his ass every single time. That’s extremely cool. He has, he has not had his swing the way he plays like, Tinker down to a science. He’s a guy who, who just sticks with what he knows.
BOBBY: It definitely is more of an art for him.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: When I watch him play like, I’m, I’m always like, I’m always like, weirdly surprised by what he does.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like, wow, I didn’t expect you to make that diving stop to save this game against the White Sox while they collapsed. Though I know that you’re a wonderful defender. It just didn’t look like you were gonna be able to get over there. And then all of a sudden, you’re like we have the teleporting. He’s so cool. He’s, yeah, he’s really cool. I liked what you said about Lindor, there’s sort of like a coupling effect when you’re around other cool people. If you’re around another cool person, and you look less cool. It’s a great indicator that you’re uncool. Like if your lack of cool is exposed by being next to a cool pe- you can’t–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –be cool with another cool person. You’re not cool.
ALEX: That’s true.
BOBBY: You’re a fraud.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You’re a fraud. My next cool person, Brett Phillips.
ALEX: Yeah. Yup!
BOBBY: This is the guy who goes against the Sean Doolittle argument that I was trying to make.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So maybe I’ll, I’ll admit that Sean’s cool. Sean, I’m sorry for saying that you’re uncool. Though, I think that he would describe himself as uncool.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Brad Phillips is so funny.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: He’s just fucking–
ALEX: He’s weird, man.
BOBBY: –[52:58] a weirdo. And he has one of the most pure senses of humor, and hearts and spirits of any player that I’ve seen on a Major League Baseball field.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Since we started doing this. He’s like, he has absolutely no shame. He, when he, he’s there a position player who pitches. He has a cannon, he has an absolute cannon. And he goes up there and because they don’t want him to get injured, he throws 54 mile an hour curveballs that get obliterated by one of the best players of all time in Mike Trout.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And he still makes faces at Trout as he’s going around the bases afterwards and then goes on Twitter and tweeted him saying, “You got lucky hitting that one out”.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That is cool. I don’t like, I don’t care. It’s such confidence. It’s like class clown cool.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And I think that the sport is better for it.
ALEX: Well, and it, I think it helps because he knows that he is not a star. He’s, he’s not the best player on the Rays. But he’s had his moments in the spotlight. And I think is totally fine with that. He doesn’t need to be the center of attention on the baseball field. He’s just a dude who’s like, happy to be there.
BOBBY: Yep. Yep. We need more, we need more people like Brett Phillips. Okay. uncool.
ALEX: Uncool. Marcus Stroman, brutally uncool!
BOBBY: See, I think that some people think he’s cool, though.
ALEX: I know. I mean, he’s a guy who like if you watch him play baseball, you probably think he is one of the coolest players on the field.
BOBBY: Right. He plays cool.
ALEX: He plays extremely cool!
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: He tweets extremely uncool. Like he is his own worst enemy. If we’re, if we’re being quite honest.
BOBBY: I have no comment on this.
ALEX: I know you don’t.
BOBBY: I have no comment. He’s a good photographer. That’s cool.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Photography is cool.
ALEX: Yeah. I mean–
BOBBY: He’s a good pitcher.
ALEX: –and he might be a, a good hang. Might be, if you don’t get them talking about crypto.
BOBBY: Bans topic, bans topic.
ALEX: True. You’re right.
BOBBY: That’s a penalty for you. 5 minutes in the penalty box. Bans topic. Okay uncool. Corey Seager.
ALEX: All right. Explain.
BOBBY: He’s not cool at all!
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: He doesn’t look cool playing. He just goes up there. He has the most boring swing. The most boring fielding mechanics. I’m not saying they’re bad. And I’m not saying he’s bad. He’s the one of the best uncool players in baseball.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’s like, six, the least interesting six WAR you’ve ever seen in your life. Oh, look at that. Oh, he shot it the other way and then stand up double the second. No emotion.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: There’s Corey Seager again.
ALEX: See, I think–
BOBBY: He even looks like a creative player.
ALEX: I think of him is just like, boring in the way that like Mike Trout is boring. Where he’s like, extremely good. But like, I don’t think Mike Trout is resolutely like, uncool. Like I don’t–
BOBBY: I think Mike Trout is so uncool that he’s cool. He’s one of the guys who actually walks that fine line.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like he, he likes weather. That’s cool.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: If you like something that other people think is boring, but you like really earnestly like it. I think that’s kind of cool.
ALEX: Right. That people have hobbies. That remains to be, it feels like a, a bit that got out of hand, you know. Like, it’s kind of like, oh, there’s Mike Trout weather guy. Like, this Mike Trout guy likes weather. And he like went along with it. And now he’s into deep and so now he has to have The Weather Channel on–
BOBBY: See, I think–
ALEX: Like all time.
BOBBY: –well, I think that he probably likes weather just fine.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Way more than the average person likes to think about the weather. But I also think that it’s a real indictment of baseball media, that they can’t think of anything more interesting to say about Mike Trout or interesting to learn about Mike Trout, than the fact that he has whether. It’s proof that baseball media is actually uncool.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: His words just we’re just like, Oh, haha, Mike Trout, here comes the weather joke again.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: It’s all we’ve got.
BOBBY: Okay, we’re on cool again.
ALEX: Cool. Andrew McCutchen.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: Again, this feels obvious if we’re being honest.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Just like I probably should have left him off the list, given my caveat up top. But like he fits he, it seems to me like he fits in that kind of Curtis Granderson mold of like being a, a genuinely good dude. He’s also extremely weird online, which like, I just have an affinity for, right. He has the, the weirdest posts on his Instagram,–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –on his Twitter. He’s like, engaging, and he like knows how to use them the platform. Actually, he’s not just tweeting out sponsorships, and retweeting like teammate highlights. He’s actually like–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –in his mentions.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But not in a toxic way.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: That’s cool to me.
BOBBY: Okay. That’s a good one. I think he’s pretty cool. I think he’s a little bit obvious. A little played out for me.
ALEX: He is little, yeah.
BOBBY: You know, he’s cool. Like Nirvana was cool. Not cool anymore. Now we’ve moved on. Just kidding, Nirvana was cool as fuck. Are you kidding me? This is my third guy who is cool. His name is J.P. Crawford.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Shortstops are cool, most of the time. And then they have to like actively become uncool.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: By being a certain way like Corey Seager. And J.P. has done nothing but make himself seems even cooler to me. I don’t even really know much about him. Like as a guy, what his personality is, like what he’s into. But just his aesthetic is very, very cool to me. So J.P. Crawford.
ALEX: And he’s good, he’s having a bit of a coming out year. [58:36] this year.
BOBBY: His OPS is like 950 right now.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: So, that helps.
ALEX: Uncool. Mike Clevinger.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like he kind of does, does the work for us on this one. Like, there are guys who are weird and cool. And there are guys who are weird and just feel like a little toxic. Like he radiates like toxic positivity almost, right? His whole thing is like, is like hippie, like–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –sunshine and flowers, man. Like, I’m just all like, like peace and love in the world. And you get the sense that he just kind of wanted to create that brand for himself. Because he thought it would like make him cool.
BOBBY: You can’t be about all peace, love, and rainbows in the world if you’re also like, just a barstool guy.
ALEX: Right, and getting into like, getting into like fights with fans online. Which he did a couple years ago.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I don’t know. I just, I ju- he’s just the kind of guy I’m like, I don’t, I don’t trust you.
BOBBY: See, this is a good example of somebody who like has, for whatever reason, just developed a lot of clout amongst baseball highlights, Instagram pages.
ALEX: Right, yeah.
BOBBY: All the cleats, all the hair, all the funky delivery. Like it’s all over pitching ninja all the time. Even sometimes it makes his way to House of Highlights and I’m just like, this guy is annoying, [1:00:03]
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Speaking of guys that are annoying, and maybe the most uncool player on my list, Alex Bregman.
ALEX: Wow. Okay.
BOBBY: He is not cool at all.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And he wants he wants it too much. He’s doing an impression of a cool guy. And he does a good impression.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: It does good job of not breaking that kayfabe. But after like all of the signs stealing and stuff, like him trying to turn himself into the heel. It, it was very much like when LeBron went to Miami, and he tried to turn himself into like a villain. He’s like, I’m LeBron villain mode for all of 2011. I’m like, dude–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –like, you’re just a normal guy who plays a really solid third base. And I, I just don’t I, I don’t think his stick is very interesting.
ALEX: Yeah, it feels a little, you mentioned LeBron. It feels a little like Kevin Durant asked to.
BOBBY: Oh, yeah. See, I think Kevin Durant’s cool.
ALEX: I mean, I think I’m, right–
BOBBY: [1:01:01], so many times.
ALEX: I know, yes, you have.
BOBBY: I think he’s just a cool guy who does a lot of uncool stuff.
ALEX: Right. But it’s like–
BOBBY: But like when he logs on to Twitter and just ethers people are like, wait, is this the coolest guy–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –ever seen in my life.
ALEX: Are you may be the, the best poster of all time?
BOBBY: I think he might be drill.
ALEX: Right. Like the fact that dude has like actual burner accounts out there. He’s that’s just hilarious to me. I know, this isn’t an NBA cool-uncool.
BOBBY: Unbelievable. Okay, back to cool. Rapid fire through the last few.
ALEX: You know, I think is really cool. Who does not get the shiny deserves from Yankees fans is Gleyber Torres.
BOBBY: Hmm. Interesting.
ALEX: I think it, it is obvious he has maybe had a, a rocky career to say the least in New York. I think has drawn the ire of a lot of Yankees fans and continues to do so especially now that Gary Sanchez is gone.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: But like when you talk about suave, like a guy who looks good out on the field, maybe you don’t have to look at results all the time. But he’s a guy–
BOBBY: Or who don’t have to run to the bathroom if hit ground balls hit to him.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: It’s conveniently be out of the room.
ALEX: He’s a guy who I think like, like, looks like a, like a baseball player.
BOBBY: Yeah, he does.
ALEX: He has maybe the best jawline in the sport. He also is a fit-God.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I don’t know, in, in another world where he’s a good baseball player. I think he’s like a, like a he’s like a fashion icon. You know? He’s like, he’s like, bizarro world like Javier Baez.
BOBBY: Okay. Although–
ALEX: [1:02:44]
BOBBY: –Javier Baez sometimes it’s not a good buyer either.
ALEX: [1:02:46] very good this year.
BOBBY: I thought about putting Javier Baez on here. He’s one who felt too obvious. He’s so cool.
ALEX: Yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: I like it. You convince me. He’s not good, but he is cool.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah, he’s definitely not good. This is too much Yankees apologizing–
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: –going on here. Mike Schubert is gonna text us saying that this were his favorite Yankees podcast. Alright, let me, let me knock the Yankees fans down from there high in just a second. But I have to do an another cool guy first. That cool guy is Jose Abreu.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’s so damn cool. He’s like dirty, his jersey is like all the way down to his ribcage.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’s got a some of the thickest chains I’ve ever seen like a good baseball player be able to wear for long periods of time–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –while playing well still. He’s got like a dad strength energy to him. Like his, many of his home runs are just all forearms. Kind of like how Albert Pujols was–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –in his peak. Not that I’m saying that Jose Abreu was anywhere near the baseball player that Albert Pujols was but–
ALEX: Not yet.
BOBBY: I think is the ponytail, the bun is cool. I think the, the big lip in is cool. It’s all cool, it is, he’s cool. He’s so show. And again, that’s a phrase that we use on baseball Twitter a lot to describe someone who just looks like a big leaguer. Who has like mastered the mannerisms of looking like a big leaguer. But there’s a way to do that where it feels like you know that you’re doing the mannerisms of a big leaguer. And then there’s a way to do it where it feels like you’re, you’re like living the mannerisms. Like you were put on this earth to show people how to dip. And that’s kind of what Jose Abreu is like.
ALEX: Well, and you mentioned earlier, right? If you’re standing next to someone cool and you look uncool, like big demerit in there.
BOBBY: Yeah, red flag.
ALEX: And he’s–
BOBBY: He’s standing next to, like 20 cool people.
ALEX: He’s hap- he’s standing next to like maybe the coolest team in baseball and manages to–
BOBBY: Still the coolest guy, yeah, yeah.
ALEX: All right back to uncool. Another sort of obvious one. The, the uncool ones oftentimes feel just as if not more obvious than, than the cool guys.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Noah Syndergaard. Supremely uncool!
BOBBY: Ohh, this is such a good one. This is such a good one. It, I don’t know why he didn’t come across my mind because I think all of the time about how uncool he is.
ALEX: Yeah, it’s like–
BOBBY: He’s like if Jordan Peterson was 6’5″ and through 98.
ALEX: Right. Exactly. Like, you know, is always posting–
BOBBY: Except only throws 93 now.
ALEX: Yeah, is washed. He’s always like posting like the books he’s reading on Instagram. And they’re like, how to, how to level up your, your mindset, you know?
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Here’s my, here’s my, my dinner. It’s a piece of raw steak and one lettuce.
BOBBY: Leaf.
ALEX: One lettuce leaf.
BOBBY: One lettuce, I’ll take one lettuce, sir.
ALEX: He actually is Jordan Peterson. Become to think of it.
BOBBY: He is Jordan Peterson.
ALEX: Yeah, he’s- and like, he’s not even like corny, he’s like, I would, I would like to not have a conversation with this man. I don’t think I’d be able to make it through.
BOBBY: Oh, man. Another New York pitcher on my uncool list. Though I know that Noah Syndergaard is an Anaheim pitcher now, which feels weirdly more accurate. Another New York pitcher who should have maybe also been an Anaheim pitcher, I don’t really know. Garrett Cole. He is not cool at all!
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: There’s nothing cool about him.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I used to think he was kind of cool.
ALEX: Right. When he was on the Astros, it was kind of like–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –damn, this guy shoves.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Every time he goes out there.
BOBBY: He shoves every time he goes out there. His stuff is off the charts. He really talked that much. He’s a pretty good game face. But the, the game face is completely gone now that he’s not allowed to have a beard. Now he’s just kind of looks like I keep saying this joke because it keeps being true in my brain. He looks like the Michael Myers mask, without facial hair. And I mean, talk about a way to expose yourself as supremely uncool. The whole spider tax situation–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –was just one of the least cool, cool ways to handle anything that has ever happened in–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –baseball.
ALEX: Big I’ve never had media training in my life energy.
BOBBY: If you’re on the Yankees, you have to really do something to overcome and, and present as cool and he does not.
ALEX: Yep!
BOBBY: Okay, we’re up to our final [1:07:13] category.
ALEX: All right, I’ll just give you my my cool and uncool real quick.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: My cool guy. Mark Canha.
BOBBY: Nice. The aviator shades.
ALEX: Yeah. Aviator shades, he’s a huge like foodie. He’s always posting, I mean, when he was on the A’s he was always popping around to like the hot spots in town and posting about it on his Instagram.
BOBBY: Wow! Wow!
ALEX: And again, like a guy who kind of like came up out of nowhere and [1:7:41]–
BOBBY: Mark Canha guess right for the [1:07:42] 38, brother.
ALEX: That’s right. Has no business being good at baseball. Like just looks like a, a dude.
BOBBY: Yeah. He looks like such as like a dad who’s really into golf.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: But not very good at golf.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like, yeah, he’s, I love him.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Unbelievable that he’s on the Mets.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Let’s go Mets, as they completely botch a game to the Seattle Mariners, but it’s fine.
ALEX: My last uncool guy is a bit of a zag. Because I know he’s a bit of a favorite on this podcast. But he is extremely uncool. And that’s Nick Castellanos.
BOBBY: Ohhhh! Okay. I thought you were gonna say my last guy too. And I was gonna be mad. Because I’m zagging as well.
ALEX: Nice.
BOBBY: But also zigging at the same time, you’ll see what I mean.
ALEX: He is incredible for the content, man.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: It’s partially because he’s uncool. Like he wants to be that guy, right? Who’s like exposing baseball for the, the sham that it is, right? The, the business of baseball, right? He’s, he’s vocally anti Rob Manfred. He will hand over the mic to a fan in a postgame interview, just to let that sentiment be known. And again, I hope he keeps doing what he’s doing. Because there, there are very few players like him in baseball, and, and I love it. That’s not cool. It’s not, it’s not cool.
BOBBY: Okay, my only counterpoint would be, if you walked into a room and Nick Castellanos was in the room in street clothes, I think you would think he was cool.
ALEX: Yeah. I think once he started talking–
BOBBY: Yeah, you might lose the thread.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Might lose that thread. That’s fair. That might be a controversial one, we’ll see.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: The listeners will have to decide whether or not he is cooler or uncool. That’ll be the poll that I put underneath is on Spotify.
ALEX: There you go. All right. Give me your last two.
BOBBY: Okay, my last two are actually one, one man. He’s on both.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’s both.
ALEX: I feel like I know who this is.
BOBBY: It’s Bryce Harper.
ALEX: Hmmm. Hmmm.
BOBBY: I, he’s like that to me when we’re talking about cooler uncool. He’s like that painting, that looks like a bunny if you look at it in one angle, and looks like a duck if you look at it in the other angle. It’s just a matter of whe- how you choose to look at it that day.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Whether or not what he’s doing is cool. Because like, okay, 485 foot home run. Backflip, yelling, hands straight up in the air. It’s pretty cool.
ALEX: Happy Mother’s Day in into the camera after hitting a bomb.
BOBBY: Yeah, like he is like I said earlier he’s show.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And he has been since he was like 15.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And the I black like back in the minors like getting tossed. He got tossed in a minor league game because a pitch was outside and he went and drew a line where the pitch was and the umpire ejected him. Like, it’s pretty, that stuff is all pretty cool. The obsession with like, the barber shop that we discovered on this podcast a couple years ago. The pandering to Philadelphia like the second that he got in the door by like, making his Instagram captions like #cityofBrycereallylove and shit like that. That stuff is like maybe not cool that I could be convinced that it is cool in a certain way. And I do think he’s pretty corny, and a try hard. So that’s why he occupies kind of both sides of my list. He’s like the one guy who I will allow an argument for either case based on the day or even the hour, or even the inning of the specific game that he is playing.
ALEX: Yeah. Yeah, maybe not cool personality wise. Don’t scroll through his Instagram likes.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Which I don’t even think you can do anymore but–
BOBBY: Not politically cool.
ALEX: No! But like, he, but like, I know the like whole like, that’s a clown question, bro thing was, like, really play it out really quickly. But when it happened, it was fucking hilarious, right? That was like when, when Trump tweeted covfefe and, and for a moment, the whole internet, internet was united in how fucking stupid our President is, you know? And then like, he got in on the joke and it got really played out. And like liberals–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –glommed on to it. But, but when it happened, boy, that was that was a day on the internet.
BOBBY: He’s got pretty funny, pretty good comedic timing or like life timing.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He does big things in big moments.
ALEX: Yeah
BOBBY: Good or bad, orr dumb or silly. Or like whatever.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I, I’m, he’s such a main character.
ALEX: Yeah, he really is, big main character energy.
BOBBY: Also, he won MVP last year. I don’t really feel like we’re talking about him as one of the best players in baseball anymore. His two MVPs, he’s still under 30. It’s sort of ridiculous how good he is and how much we take him for granted because he’s not been on very many good teams. Okay, that’s it, Alex. That’s everybody on the cool and uncool list. That’s not all of the cool and uncool players. Please don’t be offended if we left out your favorite cool or your least favorite uncool player.
ALEX: Yeah, but, but let us know who it is. You can slide into our, into our DMs. You can drop us a reply on Twitter. If you’re in that Patreon slack. You can pop in there as well, where we have an episode discussion channel set up for all you Tipping Pitches heads.
BOBBY: Still never come up with the name.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Still never came up with a name for this sport is the podcast.
ALEX: Speaking of the Patreon.
BOBBY: That does- speaking of the Patreon, patreon.com\tippingpitches. Three tiers $5, $7, or $12 a month. You get a bunch of good stuff at all of those tiers. At the top tier, the Alex Rodriguez VIP club. You will get a shout out, as a producer level supporter of this podcast. We are going to shout out five of those A. Rod.-tier patrons per week. This week, huge thank you goes to Alexander, Connor, Jacob, Becca, and JT. If you have questions for the podcast, but you’re not in the slack, of course, you can drop them tippingpitchespod@gmail.com, tipping_pitches on Twitter. In the DMs you can call our voicemail line 785-422-5881. It’s been a while since we’ve done a bonafide voicemail mailbag segment, but maybe we’ll do one of those soon. We’ll let you know ahead of time if we do, Alex anything else to leave the, leave the people with? Did we contemplated on what other cryptocurrencies that people could, could buy into?
ALEX: You know, I haven’t. You want to know if he’s uncool?
BOBBY: I’d love to know.
ALEX: Mayor Eric Adams.
BOBBY: Oooh. That’s so true. I forgot about this. So we should play them out with, with how uncool he is.
ALEX: Yes, yeah.
BOBBY: Okay, appreciate everybody listening. We’ll be back next week. Please enjoy the dulcet tones of New York City’s meme of a Mayor, Eric Adams.
[Music]
ERIC ADAMS: But just think about it, from sitting in those seats, to sitting in the broadcast. Only in America.
Speaker 1: Pretty cool.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
ERIC ADAMS: Only in America.
Speaker 1: I know, who knows what see that planning for you?
ERIC ADAMS: Without a doubt, only in America. Listen, this is the only country with dream is attached to about me. There’s not a German dream, there’s not a French dream, there’s not a Polish dream. This is an American dream. And that dream came to reality just by sitting in those seats.
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most, Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya!
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
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