Alex and Bobby attempt to parse Phil Mushnick’s sprawling metaphor for New York sports teams, discuss the dizzying flurry of player movement in the last week and what it has revealed about some teams, a labor win for minor leaguers last week, then answer listener questions about their playing days, advertisements on uniforms, the nonexistence of the Phillies’ defense, how their consumption of the game has changed over time, and more.
Links:
Judge rules MLB violated wage law with minor leaguers
Wilco — “Sunken Treasure” • Hitoshi Sato — “Say Goodbye” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and and and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about. It’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, there was a lot of good feeling recently, in the last week about Baseball being back. Lockout over spring training, returning. We saw Major League Baseball players in uniform on baseball fields.
ALEX: Yeah, I didn’t recognize any of my guys, personally.
BOBBY: Well, you probably did recognize them on different teams wearing different uniforms.
ALEX: That’s fair. Yes, you’re right. It was, it was a little surreal, like getting lineup notifications.
BOBBY: I know, ho- MLB home run notifications?
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: Yeah. But despite all of that joy, our old friend, old, one of our oldest friends on the podcast, Alex, he found something very tried and true to complain about. This friend that I’m talking about is of course Phil Mushnik Do you see this? Go–
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: –you’re out making the rounds on Twitter?
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: I think we just have to do a bad take dramatic reading. I saw this–
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: –I saw this New York Post article from the original bad take dramatic reading artists himself–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –Phil Mushnik, for those who have been listening for four years now.
ALEX: Right, this is real tipping heads.
BOBBY: That’s what we’re calling them.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: New York teams make effort to find players who make no effort. That’s the headline.
ALEX: Amazing.
BOBBY: Alex, clues generally come in two sizes, small and those that are dead giveaways.
ALEX: Wait so–
BOBBY: [2:03] large–
ALEX: [2:03] clues–
BOBBY: –they can be seen from outer space.
ALEX: Clues.
BOBBY: Outerspace, clues.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Clues come in two sizes.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Just to review, small and those that are dead giveaways, those are the two sizes. We’re now into the second paragraph.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Steal yourself. During World War II. I saw someone underneath it, be like I tapped out after I saw the phrase World War II. That’s like the 15th word in–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –the article. During World War II, Joseph Stalin’s spy masters, established a front in Brussels. They named the foreign excellent trench coat company. After all, what self respecting spy could operate without a trench coat? Just a reminder, this is an article about Baseball.
ALEX: It has big like, I I read a Wikipedia article last night and kind of just want to incorporate it–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –energy.
BOBBY: Yet for some reason, perhaps the inability to provide trench coats. The foreign excellent trench coat factory was a bust. And that naturally, naturally, brings us to Gotham’s professional teams, and the inability of its management’s. We really need a copy pass on this like really badly. To see what’s coming, then wait too long to seek a remedy.
ALEX: What is this about? Wait, I’m sorry, like I–
BOBBY: You’re gonna see what it’s about in just a moment.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: It’s Phil Mushnik.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: What do you think it’s about?
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: In sustaining the counterproductive presence of Gary Sanchez.
ALEX: Yes! Yes!
BOBBY: They finally traded them away and Phil had to send them off the right way.
ALEX: Right. He was like I gotta turn out all the, all the takes I can.
BOBBY: And paying him more for his presence. It certainly seems the Yankees were the last to know that he was more doorstop than backstop. He was MLB’s highest salaried, listless retriever of past balls.
ALEX: And has the thesaurus.com just open at all time as he’s writing this.
BOBBY: Now he’s, now he’s sharing a message from his reader, reader Joe Nugent. Quote, “Poor Sonny Gray traded to the Twins the same day they get Sanchez to catch them again. That Sanchez conspicuously resisted all attempts, including private tutoring to become even a minimally efficient catcher who ran the bases with even a minimal degree of enthusiasm and situational awareness. And batted with the goal to hit the ball rather than strikeout. Only seem to escape Aaron Boone, Brian Cashman and YES’ broadcasting teams, drive by shoot effort, YES Network. Please don’t disrespect my friend Ryan Ruocco but such as life in the big city. And now we move on to the part where he talks about the Crosstown Dominican player Robinson Canó. Robinson Canó is back to play somewhat for the Mets after his second PED suspension. As a Yankee, it was clear that Canó was a minimalist, that the fundamental winning baseball act of running to first was beneath him.
ALEX: This is Robinson Canó, right? We’re talking about that universally beloved Yankee who is one of their greatest players ever, especially if he spends his whole career there.
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: That same Robinson Canó. As an aging M-who isn’t? M-met, his disinclination to reach first base in even a moderately quick fashion was excused explained and rationalized by the pandering as a veteran quote, “Trying to save his legs.” Saving them for what? He’s a professional ballplayer.
ALEX: He has not been on the Yankees for years.
BOBBY: I know. Anytime you have a long history of columns that you can just reprint and change the team name.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Instead of actually doing your job, you just have to do it. Anytime you can get from–
ALEX: Joseph Stalin to Robinson Canó in like four paragraphs?
BOBBY: It’s actually kind of [6:04]
ALEX: Kind of is. I, is is there more to this article? I’m like, I’m still kind of missing the thesis here, right? Like I’ve, there was something about trench coats up top. And, and then there was casual racism in the middle.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like what are we, what are we building towards, you know?
BOBBY: It’s, it’s just taking back to–
ALEX: The casual racism freshman English class days.
BOBBY: Yeah. Like thesis statement. Topic sentence, topic sentence, topic sentence [6:36]–
ALEX: Right. Exactly.The classic like five paragraph.
BOBBY: Yeah, the, the casual racism is a feature, not a book.
ALEX: Right. Yes.
BOBBY: It’s like the whole thing.
ALEX: Really.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm. Uhm, so here’s where we get back to the thesis of the whole article and the headline.
ALEX: Okay, I’m I’m waiting for this.
BOBBY: We- you’ll recall the headline was New York teams make effort to find players who make no effort.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: So the whole article is a list of all of the players that Phil Mushnik thinks are lazy, who have played for New York teams. He then goes on to talk about Le’Veon Bell.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: He talks about Ben Simmons who won’t play, who’s day to day with a back injury.
ALEX: Good.
BOBBY: Though, that’s the whole column. Shall I, shall I treat you to the kicker?
ALEX: Please. I, you know, I’m kind of torn on this, because on the one hand, it was a really inspiring lead. Like I, I actually thought there was going to be like, this is clearly a guy who is at the peak of his craft. And it just kind of feels like he maybe mailed it in a little bit. Like, I know that most of his articles are just like, pick up a player, pick a non-white player on a New York sports team. And spend 500 words, critiquing them with convoluted metaphors.
BOBBY: Right!
ALEX: But I don’t know, I feel like he set things up so nicely up top. And, and then just kind of lost.
BOBBY: Yes, he he goes out of his way to talk about Carmelo Anthony, who hasn’t been on the Knicks for like 8 years. He talks about Evan Engram, who was the first-round pick by the Giants and just recently signed with Jacksonville. And here’s the kicker, Alex, but the folks who run teams in Florida can’t be expected to be sharper than those who run teams in New York City. Besides, let some other town be the last to know. Because Evan Engram signed with the Jacksonville Jaguars.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Needed a trench coat? Out!
ALEX: Wow! Mic drop.
BOBBY: Uhm, I just thought you might appreciate that.
ALEX: I didn’t know that I needed that–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –in my life.
BOBBY: You had a rough night last night. And now this is bringing you back to life.
ALEX: I was at a a a bar that was doing some karaoke. And while, yes, I could have gotten up there and and sing a Taylor Swift song or–
BOBBY: Yeah, you got up there and sang “hope ur ok” by Olivia Rodriguez.
ALEX: Right. Exactly.
BOBBY: That’s the one from that album that you love the most.
ALEX: Uh-huh. Yeah. I really should have gotten up there with this and done kind of like a, like slam poetry.
BOBBY: Yeah. The modern beatniks, [9:12].
ALEX: Right. Joseph Stalin, man.
BOBBY: We should work Joseph Stalin references into more podcasts.
ALEX: It would not actually be that hard for us to do.
BOBBY: I don’t even think it would be that far off topic.
ALEX: Right, exactly. Yeah.
BOBBY: Let’s work on that. Uhm, we got a ton of news this past week. We got some big and positive news in Minor League Baseball, which we’re going to talk about. And then we’re going to finish the podcast by doing a bunch of mailbag questions. But before we do all of that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I am Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[9:46]
[Music Theme]
BOBBY: Okay, Baseball is back, the hot stove is hot again, Alex. A bunch of signings in this past week. Obviously people don’t come to Tipping Pitches to hear about Transaction Analysis.
ALEX: Which is why we’re gonna spend 20 minutes on it?
BOBBY: No, I don’t think that we need to do Transaction Analysis but I did kind of want to ask you what it felt like to see the free agent carousel again. We got some really big names changing teams.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Trevor story is now a Red Sox for six years. $140 million. Carlos Correa is a member of the Minnesota Twins. Big market, big bad Minnesota Twins that the Yankees can’t possibly outspend and attract Carlos Correa away from. 3 years $105 million with an opt out after each year. So obviously a high average annual value there but think of much shorter contract? And a lot of people were expecting Carlos Correa to sign, given that, you know, most 27-year old middle infield superstars tend to opt for the long contract like Francisco Lindor. Freddie Freeman will be wearing Dodger blue for 6 years $162 million. super weird. That’s like a real MLB: The Show vibe when you’re like five years into a franchise motor “Road to the Show.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And all of a sudden, like franchise icons are playing for other teams and you’re just like, sure that would never happen in real life. Well, it happened. And speaking of franchise icons playing for other teams, flip flop of that is Kenley Jansen is now on the Atlanta Braves for 1 year $16 million. There was obviously a bunch of other stuff, the Matt Olson extension. The groundbreaking, Hansel Robles back to the Red Sox move that really puts them as World Series favorites in my mind. Nick Castellanos to the Phillies for 5 years 100 million. Kyle Schwarber to the Phillies, they just don’t think that they have to make any outs in the outfield there, but that’s okay.
ALEX: Right. That’s what the universal DH is for.
BOBBY: Yeah, you just get to put as many fielders out [11:54]. Universal, the Phillies are the universal DH and they were like we get to have 98 spots?
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: Sweet. As all of this news was breaking, were you like, oh, yeah, Baseball is back, baby. Were you, were you eating it up? Because I’ll say for myself, I found it kind of disorienting. I think I need like a couple of weeks and the regular season to start before I really start to conceive of any of these teams as real collects. You know, collections of players ever again.
ALEX: Yeah, I’m still not, not in a place where I’m thinking about the idea of of baseball teams.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Playing baseball, like Sonny gray being on the Minnesota Twins.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I’m like, I guess. I mean, that’s groundbreaking analysis here, you know. It’s actually Kenley Jansen to the Braves is like the weird one for me. Freddie Freeman on the Dodgers, I I totally see. I mean, it’s weird. But I get it because it’s the, it’s the Dodgers, right? I mean, you–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –would never think. Trea Turner on the Dodgers. But I feel like Kenley is such a beloved hometown player, and has obviously dealt with both on and off field struggles, health issues, etc. I don’t know, I feel like you never really think about those types of players who maybe not like franchise players, but–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –the ones you can kind of, kind of count on.
BOBBY: Especially closers too, because they, they have like such a similar rhythm to every game, they’re always coming in. I think of Kenley like the excitement that it brought to the Dodgers crowd when they would play his intro music, which “California Love” by Tupac. And–
ALEX: Right. What is it gonna be now?
BOBBY: I don’t know. I, I wonder if he would just keep the same song.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Like after you’ve been closing games for so long to switch that up, seems like a too big of a risk.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: But you’re right, nothing can com- nothing can prepare you for the thought of seeing a player who you otherwise love putting on an Atlanta Braves jersey. Although I guess you had to prepare yourself for that last week when they traded Matt Olson into the Braves.
ALEX: And Matt Champman to the Blue Jays and Chris Bassitt to the Mets.
BOBBY: Well, you’re used to seeing incredible third baseman get traded to the Blue Jays. Not the first time that that happens.
ALEX: Tough scene. Mookie Betts, Trea Turner, Freddie Freeman. I know I’m just reading the Dodgers lineup now but–
BOBBY: Should we just ke- why stop there? Max Muncy.
ALEX: Justin Turner, Will Smith.
BOBBY: Like it’s unbelievable.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: They are, unbelievable.
ALEX: I feel like this is, this is real throwback vibes. You know, like first few episodes of this podcast vibes. Were just kind of like, man, crazy how many baseball players there are. And how many of them are really good at what they do?
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah. Let’s spin it forward to a more modern version of Tipping Pitches and talk about the A’s and the Reds completely tanking for unknown reasons?
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Although we kind of know the reasons. The second, the CBA was inked. The second, the lockout was lifted. The first thing that the Reds and the Oakland Athletics, thought to do was like, thanks for sticking with us, fans. Thanks for getting excited about the lockout ending and the season coming back, 162 games. Now we’re going to trade every player. So it looks like those anti-tanking measures from the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Ho- how are they, how are they doing? How are they holding up so far? 12 days into the CBA.
ALEX: Right, we knew this was coming. Or at least I knew it was coming on behalf of the A’s. I think maybe the Reds are the one that was a little more surprising. Any less so given what we know about Bob, I seriously, we have mentioned the name Bob Castellini on this podcast so many times.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I, I genuinely did not think about him.
BOBBY: I feel like we need intro music for him.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like at this point we’ve talked about him so many times that–
ALEX: Right. My God!
BOBBY: –someone that Bob’s [16:18] someone needs to read, it’s like a little jingle talking, talking about his wholesale produce.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Get some carrot mentions and maybe some brussels sprouts. You know, maybe Romaine?
ALEX: We love this bit.
BOBBY: It’s such a good bit.
ALEX: I will say–
BOBBY: What is the bit by the way? There’s no joke in there, really. The bit is just talking about how he sells fruits and vegetables.
ALEX: Right. Like a, like a genuinely kind of generic business? I think maybe our, it’s our disbelief that you can–
BOBBY: [16:48]
ALEX: –get, get so wealthy–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –from that. But I guess, stranger things have happened.
BOBBY: That’s just supply chain economics right there.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Supermarket needs carrots, someone’s got to get them carrots, you know?
ALEX: I hope the listeners enjoy this content.
BOBBY: If somebody writes us a jingle, I can’t think of a good way to pay them back. But you know, the future Patreon, which we will someday launch at some–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –point for some amount of money to provide some level of content that is more than just this free podcast. That person will have a free access pass to the Patreon for life.
ALEX: That’s right.
BOBBY: Okay, back to Bob Castellini. My God! Someone honked outside, it’s like they heard us. Let’s go!
ALEX: I actually, I can’t speak too much to to Bob and his current financial situation. I will say I was on John Fisher’s Forbes page.
BOBBY: Oooh. Real time–
ALEX: And–
BOBBY: –what’s the real time looking like?
ALEX: Well, the real time is is 2.5 billion. I I will say it looks like he from from April of last year to October of last year. He went from 3.1 to 2.9.
BOBBY: Ouch.
ALEX: Which I think probably explains the the slashing and burning–
BOBBY: Of the A’s.
ALEX: –of the A’s, right?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: That’s why they’re gonna run out a $30 million payroll this year.
BOBBY: Just the Forbes know about the ROI yet? Like have they, have they updated that based on the extension that they don’t have to sign Matt Chapman and Matt Olson.
ALEX: That’s true. Yeah!
BOBBY: Like that could be, you look tomorrow?
ALEX: Well–
BOBBY: Once the ink is dry on those deals.
ALEX: They raised season ticket prices. One of our listeners Mike DMed me to point out they also raised the price of hats.
BOBBY: Ooh.
ALEX: I don’t know, it feels like they’re, they’re almost running out of ways to alienate their fans. They’re like, what else can we, can we do? Disassembled hot dogs? You know, like–
BOBBY: Yeah, I feel like hats are a pretty standard price.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: You know, anytime you you can raise prices while trading all of your best players. You just kind of have to do it, feels like it’s capitalism having a moment again, like is it bouncing back? And all of this pro union sentiment, all of these, the young leftist wave. the A’s are just like, Nah! You guys are still gonna come to the games, right? Like you–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: You’re still gonna [19:05] new stadium.
ALEX: [19:05] give us that money.
BOBBY: Yeah, you’re gonna, you’re gonna come on down to Howard Terminal huh?
ALEX: Here’s the thing and I have never understood this. But I really don’t understand the the business case for this.
BOBBY: For raising prices?
ALEX: For raising prices for, I mean for trading players again, not to just be like, why- why not just spend the money to keep them? But–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –for all the whining about gate receipts, and fan attendance, and how important that is to owners bottom line? This feels like that flies directly in the face of that, right? The fact that the Oakland A’s are still able to maintain themselves as a profitable franchise, while routinely drawing 10,000 fans?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: 7,000 fans, and and doing the very things that you think would alienate them. The fact that they still are in existence feels like that is disproving the very theory that you need the fans to be able to make money off the sport.
BOBBY: Yeah, to the extent that we actually believe that there is a floor at which you, you start becoming unprofitable. If you don’t, you know, attract some fans to the ballpark for the actual in person games. If that even is true, the A’s are challenging that floor. But we kind of thought, oh, they might be at it, you know. They sell 5,000 tickets per game. on weeknights. There was a, there was a lot of discussion about a stadium turnout last season.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: To which you said, What the hell guys? Like why would people turn out–
ALEX: These.
BOBBY: –they’re like, in a nosedive. And most of these guys are not going to be on the team next year. And they’re also trying to flirt with Las Vegas in front of everybody’s very eyes. But yeah, I think that the economic reality of baseball right now, is that if that floor even exists, I don’t know that any team has hit it. And that’s pretty bleak to think about. Because when you consider the fact that the A’s are pulling in just a few 1,000 10,000 On weekends, you consider the fact that the Marlins don’t even open half their stadium seating.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: You consider the fact that the Rays never sell out or whatever. But they still have a great local cable deal. And they’re still a good team, and they still won’t find ways to sell fans and get people in the stadium. I don’t know how you look at that and think anything other than owners are just going to keep trying to see how far they can dig that–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –that grave.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Dig that floor. [21:43]–
ALEX: They’re very clearly saying how far can we go?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I mean, we’ve seen that in every other aspect of the sport.
BOBBY: Oh, I thought you were just gonna say life. But I’m–
ALEX: That too, just–
BOBBY: –how far can we go? How much will people take?
ALEX: Yep. I mean, I guess this is the logical conclusion.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: [22:02] for.
BOBBY: As we sit here, as we sit here, and like a 9 by 12 room that I paid 1000s of dollars a month for, recording this podcast, for free.
ALEX: Yeah. What are you going to do? Where else you’re gonna go?
BOBBY: Exactly. But so so here’s where I bring the nuance into the conversation, though, when it comes to the A’s. Because though this has been happening your whole life. And it’s equally as gut wrenching every time when you, when your favorite players get traded. And obviously, if people listen to this podcast, they know, I think that teams should make so much more of a good faith effort to try to keep players around and build around franchise cornerstones. Because I think that that creates the longest lasting relationships for fans, and it creates the most loyal fans, at least with the A’s. This is like kind of what, this is not what the fans signed up for, but it’s what they know.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I think that there is a more recent trend in Baseball, probably inspired by the A’s. And inspired by Moneyball, where all of these other teams try to do what the A’s do. It’s like, oh, we we push, we kind of push in a little bit of a window. And then we like, sell the team for parts, and we wait till we strike it rich with a prospect. Or strike it rich in the draft a couple years consecutively. But I think that is a total myth. Like I, for what the Reds are doing. I think that that is much more aggressively anti fan than even what the A’s are doing.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Because the A’s are like, this is the deal. You know what’s coming. And we’re gonna get a bunch of really good prospects back. Because we know exactly when to train our guys, because we’ve been doing this for two decades.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Like Olson and Chapman still both had two years of Team control.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And so they got massive returns for both of those guys, much better than the Reds really got for any of their players that they traded.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Those were all just salary dumps, but to what end? You know what I mean? Like, I understand the A’s end, I don’t understand teams like the Reds. Because they made like a halfway push for like, a year and a half.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like, why even do that at all? Why not just be the Pirates? Why not just tank all the time then? I don’t even understand why you would even lie and try to set, do you think that you created lifelong fans and that 18-month period. Where you made the pa- the pandemic playoffs and nothing else.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And lost in the first-round.
ALEX: Right. You had- you actually had a year and a half of sheer excitement, not just from Reds fans, but I feel like around the sport like I was getting excited about the Reds. I think you were getting it, you, you bought me a Cincinnati Reds hat.
BOBBY: I sure did.
ALEX: I I still wear that from time to time.
BOBBY: Wow. So embarrassing now.
ALEX: Right?
BOBBY: I think it’s something to keep track of too, especially now in this new CBA. And we’ve already seen teams kind of flout the new anti-tanking measures so to speak. But we’ve yet to see if there’s going to be any kind of blowback, or any kind of gradual realization that it’s doesn’t pay off quite as much as he used to. Unfortunately, I don’t think that that’s going to happen. And that’s what we said, the night that we sat down to record, the CBA reaction podcast. Like these, this anti-tanking stuff is kind of eyewash. As we say–
ALEX: There is no [25:26]–
BOBBY: –in the Baseball world.
ALEX: –there was no real anti-tanking measures, because there’s still no incentive to spend money.
BOBBY: Yeah, I feel bad. I mean, I feel bad for you. And I feel bad for Reds fans and I, there are a whole host of teams that are kind of like, spinning in place. Which is almost like as a fan. At least you can write that off to be like, it’s hard to compete, it’s hard to put together a good baseball team. But then the team’s actually actively throwing it in reverse. The second that they get the their their first chance to just dumping all of the fans like renewed hope now that Baseball is back, like that, that really hurts. And I think that that for all of the like fear mongering that we saw from the both sides media, in the lockout, and collective bargaining coverage about how fans we’re not going to come back if we lost games. And fans weren’t going to care, because it was millionaires versus billionaires. Like where are all of those people now? Where are all of those people getting furious at the Reds? And the A’s? Where’s the column that says Moneyball is worse for fan engagement than a lockout? I’m wait- I’m still waiting for that one. From all the people who were like if we miss one single game, I will tie myself to the, I will tie myself to second base at Yankee Stadium and protest. It’s just funny how we just lose that energy or like we lose the the desire to make that kind of like high minded think-piecy argument throughout the rest of the Baseball calendar.
ALEX: Yeah, I mean, we yeah, we had we just had months of nonstop discussions about the business of Baseball, and everyone had an opinion on it.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Now we’re back to business, as usual, right?
BOBBY: Well, the one thing that we haven’t lost from the last few months is people sharing conspiracy theories about Scott Boras.
ALEX: It’s very true.
BOBBY: But I don’t even really want to, I don’t think I understand the conspiracy theories as it relates to Carlos Correa’s contract well enough to really dispel them on the podcast, you know. And I don’t think I want to, I don’t think listeners really want me to.
ALEX: No, Scott Boras’ conspiracy theories, I don’t know. Is there an appetite for them? I, maybe?
BOBBY: Listeners will just have to call in and let us know.
ALEX: Yeah. I just feel like you can probably come up with more creative ones, than Scott Boras is what manipulating the market. Like–
BOBBY: Scott Boras is only out to help himself.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Once again, he’s an agent.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like what–
ALEX: Like, yeah.
BOBBY: Yes. He wants to help him sell–
ALEX: But you–
BOBBY: –but also has to help his clients to do that. Otherwise, they won’t hire him.
ALEX: What did you think the setup was here?
BOBBY: Did you think he was like a public servant?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: He’s Scott Boras, like where have you been for the last two decades? Okay, we are going to answer some of those listener questions. Unfortunately, none of them are about Scott Boras or conspiracy theories. Before we do answer listener questions, we got some news about the minor leagues, some positive news. In that a judge in California awarded preliminary damages before this case even goes to trial about illegal wage practices for minor league teams in California. They determined that minor leaguers are year-round employees who need to be compensated a year-round. And also need to be compensated for things like travel time. The time that it takes to get to places like Arizona and Florida for Spring training, to get to games, that sort of thing. So do you have those details on what the actual damages were rewarded for? And you know, what, what what we can expect as this case progresses.
ALEX: This is [29:10] versus the Kansas City Royals that has grown to now include effectively 1000s of of minor leaguers, and it is really kind of bounced around all over the place. It’s been bounced up to the Supreme Court and back down. It has flirted with class action status. And as you mentioned, this is it hasn’t gone to trial yet. But there were some some dueling claims, basically where Major League Baseball tried to argue, as we have seen them do before. That minor league players are seasonal employees.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Akin to–
BOBBY: Amusement park worker.
ALEX: Right, interns. And the judge, and the judge disagreed with that. He said that minor leaguers should be paid for travel time to road games in the California League. And to practice in Arizona and Florida. Now, this ruling is somewhat limited in scope, right? It doesn’t dismantle the notion that minor leaguers are seasonal employees exactly. It is not going to overhaul the payment system. It’s limited to California, Arizona, and and Florida. The the damages that players will be awarded for playing in Arizona and Florida are still pending the stuff to be sorted out. But the judge ruled that MLB was not following California’s wage statement requirements and ordered close to $2 million in penalties as a result. Which is like huge, it’s a it’s a huge win for this movement, even though we know that it’s long overdue.
BOBBY: I thought one of the more interesting parts was that the judge also found that MLB is a joint employer. Which means that along with the fact that individual clubs who F minor league teams in California are exposed in this lawsuit that that means that the MLB central office itself is exposed too. So they could be found guilty, I guess, for violating California Wage Law. Because they are considered a joint employer who has jurisdiction over all 30 teams basically, about setting policy for the 30 teams. And if one of those 30 teams is violating California Wage Law, then MLB will be found guilty as well. Now, I’m not sure what that would mean for where the funds come from to pay these minor leaguers back for the wages that they’re owed. But I think this is another thing you know, like we get asked a lot does X open the door to unionizing the minors?
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Does this class action lawsuit mean that it’s easier to unionize the minors? Or does the challenge to the antitrust exemption mean that forming a union is easier? And I think the short answer to that question is no, not really. But the slightly more nuan- nuanced answer to that question is that it sets a tone for what you would eventually talk about when you’re talking–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –about unionizing the minor leagues. You can point to your, someone who is on board, a minor leaguer, who was on board with the union can talk to his teammate about why he feels this way. And then he can point back to the fact that major league teams are violating California Wage Law in how they’re paying us. And the court system, the federal judges, the public, they’re all on our side. So why not unionize? Why not go the extra step and do it? And so all of this stuff is greatly overdue. But it is also the kind of thing that I don’t want to say greases the skids for a minor league union. But at least eliminates some speed bumps towards something like that, in terms of how you talk about it with other people, and how the tone of the labor conditions for these players is conceived of.
ALEX: Yeah, I’m obviously no law professional lawyers [33:38]–
BOBBY: That’s what law- lawyers call themselves. Hey, nice to meet you, I’m Alex Bazeley, law professional.
ALEX: I think this precedent is is important as you’re saying. It, it helps shape the dialogue. And it feels like one piece of the puzzle that will be important for for lawyers to point back to when making this broader case. As you mentioned, it’s it’s going to trial in June given the way that this is headed. I, I think it seems unlikely that it gets that far.
BOBBY: Oh, you’re you’re you’re going big settlement guy.
ALEX: Well, I mean, do you think that MLB, especially if it sees the writing on the wall with this
BOBBY: Yeah, they don’t want to go to discovery.
ALEX: I don’t know that they really do. [34:32]
BOBBY: Yeah, but at post parties have to agree to a settlement, you know.
ALEX: Well, yes. Yeah.
BOBBY: If the, if the Senside Seney, Senside, I don’t know, I really apologize for not knowing how to say his name. If the side of the minor leaguers does not want to agree to the settlement and wants to, wants this to play out and fold that’s their legal right.
ALEX: Oh, absolutely.
BOBBY: It should be say.
ALEX: That, I’m I’m all for that.
BOBBY: But also I understand if you don’t want to wait another 8 years.
ALEX: Right. This feels like a similar dynamic to actually what we saw play out with In the CBA, right? Where you’re kind of balancing, do I want to be a part of this project that dismantles the the baseball’s financial structure? Weighing that against, do I just kind of want to get out? You know, like this is dragged on for–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –a while. Do I just want to get paid and what I deserve?
BOBBY: The other thing that I’ll say with regards to how this affects minor league unionization, is that, what you said like legal precedent does matter when it comes to bargaining. So it might not actually help them form the union, which is the hardest tasks to accomplish. But if it could help them, when they’re putting proposals back and forth, and MLB is saying, No, we don’t want to give you X. No, we can’t afford to give you X, etc, etc. It gives them a legal case to point back to and say, actually, your prior business practices were illegal. And so you can’t hold firm to this clause where you’re trying to enshrine your prior business practices. Because in California, where a large chunk of minor leaguers play, that actually was illegal and you had to pay damages.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Creative professionals, that’s what, that’s how MLB would like to describe minor leaguers, they’re creative professionals, like artists.
BOBBY: Do you consider yourself a creative professional?
ALEX: In that I spend a lot of time doing something that I get paid nothing for?
BOBBY: Yeah. The way that you play Grand Theft Auto is creatively professional.
ALEX: Not as much as I am a a law professional.
BOBBY: Right. Yeah.
ALEX: But the creative side bleeds out everyone’s problem.
BOBBY: Okay, let’s take a quick break and when we come back, listeners questions.
[36:46]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Okay, we have a ton of good questions. And I apologize to all the people who asked lockout questions that we tried to get to but just ran out of time. We asked people to submit questions that are kind of like baseball is back. What do we want to think about? So we’re gonna start with a couple of the submissions from Twitter, and then we’ll do a couple voicemails to and then we’ll get out here. This first question comes from Mike Schubert. And we’re getting to Mike’s question first, former guest of the podcast, Mike Schubert, hosts a million great podcasts about many different things. Mike gets to ask the first question because he bought us pizza this past week. If you buy us pizza, you get to ask the first question. That’s a new policy. I’m always saying this. Schubes wants to know what team is going to have the worst jersey patch? And will owners use their other companies to buy jersey patches on their baseball teams?
ALEX: Yeah, we haven’t really talked about this, have we?
BOBBY: No. I mean, I’m sure people know by now that part of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement is that teams can sell sponsorships on jerseys. They’ll be a, I believe they’ll be on hats, batting helmets, and the jersey itself. So advertising stretches just a little further in the game of baseball.
ALEX: I actually weirdly don’t have a strong opinion about this.
BOBBY: I don’t either.
ALEX: Like I, we’ve been seeing this phased into various sports for years now. I mean, this has existed in soccer, for example, for eternity.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I know it, it just res–
BOBBY: So many Etihad jerseys out there in the world. I mean, it is like Rocket 10.
ALEX: Right. It does feel like like Little League a little bit, you know. Where you–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –have like the local auto shop on the front of your–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –jersey.
BOBBY: De Lorenzo’s Pizza was mine.
ALEX: There you go.
BOBBY: Only one of the years. I mean, I I think that there was probably like 15 of them in my time. But De Lorenzo’s Pizza was the one that I remember the most. Just free ad space right now for De Lorenzo’s Pizza, Fairless Hills, Pennsylvania.
ALEX: Was it worth it? Did you ever have it?
BOBBY: I think we got like a pizza party from them at the end of the year. But–
ALEX: Clearly not memorable enough.
BOBBY: It was good. It was more of a V&S Pizzeria guy myself. There’s one person–
ALEX: [39:13] nothing to me or most of our listeners–
BOBBY: There’s one person listening right now from Bucks County, Pennsylvania who’s going hard right now. Like yes, V&S Pizzeria. I know that person’s out there.
ALEX: All that to say I just know we are going to get the the randomest companies buying up patches, right, you know? We’ve seen this happen before where I learned about the existence of companies through the fact that they are like sponsoring spring training–
BOBBY: I know.
ALEX: –you know,
BOBBY: I know. Dusan.
ALEX: Right, Dusan.
BOBBY: Baked Dusan push a couple years–
ALEX: There you go, Dusan push Camping World.
BOBBY: Yeah, Camping World, although I feel like Camping World was out there. Yeah. And we were just not the target demo, right? Like I don’t feel like they really jumped onto the scene. I think camping worlds probably been around for a bit. I mean, do Sun probably as well. Yeah, true, but I think they probably made their push in the United States a few years back and baseball was one of the things could be totally wrong. Now we’re talking about international commerce.
ALEX: No free ads, and unless we have to talk about it.
BOBBY: So what’s the answer, then? What’s the worst company that’s gonna buy a jersey patch? And we’ll, I don’t think that owners can sell the jersey patch to another company that they own that feels like straight up money laundering, right like that, that that is money laundering. That’s what money laundering is, right? I’ve watched enough TV shows, to know that that’s money.
ALEX: Well, also just that, would that be profitable? To buy?
BOBBY: But money laundering doesn’t have to be profitable, Alex just has to hide some of the income. That’s the whole point of money laundering.
ALEX: Jesus Christ. I don’t know what the worst company is going to be.
BOBBY: Haven’t you ever watched Breaking Bad? They buy the carwash that launder all of the drug money through it?
ALEX: Yeah, there is an owner who watched that show and was like, Oh, I didn’t think about that. Jersey patch. Idea. So I was Mike’s question, what’s gonna be the worst company or what is going to look the worst? Because I do think there are jerseys on which it may seem more out of place. Like on on on white jerseys, for example. I don’t think depending on the color scheme of the logo, I’m not sure it’s gonna make that much of a difference. But I think of some of the more colorful jerseys we have in the league, like, like the Rockies, purple jerseys, or the as kelly green jerseys. Where if you just have like a big blue logo, yes, smack dab on the you know, the the shoulder. Yeah, it’s gonna look weird.
BOBBY: I don’t know that I can really predict who’s going to be the worst, but I can I can name a couple companies that are definitely going to buy one. Mm hmm. Roman. Yeah. course. Course. Yeah. Feels like corps just has to buy the Rockies one that you think they have like an obligation? They get a deal do that? I do think that probably rocket 10 will buy one. Squarespace. They sponsored the next su Okay. Those will be my predictions. Disney sponsors the Orlando Magic, which I think is cool in the NBA cuz it actually makes sense. Yeah, cuz Disney owns everything in Orlando, right. But other than that, I don’t really know probably like WB Mason, because they’re like a huge baseball sponsor. But you see WB Mason, you like WB Mason for sure. What do they do, Alex? What does WB Mason do? Are they like shipping? Yes. Shipping logistics?
ALEX: What does that mean? How is that getting from point A to point B? Like is don’t you just plug it into Google Maps? Yeah.
BOBBY: Mm hmm. Those are little logistics. We saw how important shipping logistics have been in the last two years with the pandemic.
ALEX: Bill, this is a real big part for us just talking about industries of which we have little to no knowledge.
BOBBY: Yeah, exactly. That’s how we got good at talking about the baseball industry, which we came in with little to no knowledge. And now we see people seem to think that we have a lot of knowledge now.
ALEX: I mean, we’re gonna get a crypto sponsorship. Oh, yeah. A crypto or betting one? FTX? Probably.
BOBBY: Yeah, Jesus. So a betting? I have a question about a betting one. Okay. Can they do that? That feels that feels too far.
ALEX: I don’t know. Can they not?
BOBBY: So like, should they do that? Obviously, no. But well, they as in the league? Yeah. Should the teams be allowed? Should they? Should they allow a betting company to literally put something on the literal players who are playing the games? I think no, that seems like a recipe for disaster. But then I would have to imagine they have some kind of policy about which companies teams are allowed to sell these sponsorships to. And you might think that there would be at least enough separation of church and state still to say, let’s at least allow the the casinos to stay in the outfield. When you walk in, not on the literal field, for as much as they’ve done with the broadcast. They’ve, they’ve done a lot less on the field with the players themselves. And I know that the most recent CBA expanded what players are allowed to do in terms of accepting money to sponsor you know, sports betting companies and whatnot. But still, I would think that the jersey patch itself is at the very least distasteful, and at most, like potentially corrupt.
ALEX: I mean, yeah, that’s, that’s why it’ll it’ll happen. Right?
BOBBY: Okay. All right. I think that crypto is the worst one. Shoot, it’s yeah, that’s my answer.
ALEX: Yes, I agree.
BOBBY: Very important. Next question. Probably the most important question we have today comes from Nico, who is better at baseball, Alex or Bobby?
ALEX: Was that is that President surpassed NS like who is better right now
BOBBY: the question says who is better at baseball, okay. We can do both. Who was better who is Better now. Tough question. How do you compare across positions? You know, right?
ALEX: Well also, neither of us have ever seen the other play baseball.
BOBBY: Well, we saw each other play softball. It’s the closest thing that we can get to that. We’ve also played catch. Not a great showing for either of us in a limited time playing catch.
ALEX: Right. We both have arm injuries. Yeah, week afterwards.
BOBBY: Yeah, you know, it hurts throwing a baseball. I get it taken off the ground. Please don’t be in as much pain this year throwing a baseball. Um, I think you’re probably a better hitter than me. And I’m probably a better pitcher than you. Yeah, that would be my assessment. Yeah. But by the time I was like, 12, now probably like 13 or 14. I was like a PA pitcher. Oh, yeah, basically, there you go. I played first base every once in a while. Like I would come out of the game and go to first if we were winning by a lot. But I also didn’t wear glasses full time until college. But I definitely needed to wear glasses full time. So I had a really hard time hitting, because I couldn’t really see the Yeah, yeah, I remember my coach in middle school was like, so you wear glasses in class? And I’m like, Yeah. And he’s like, that doesn’t seem weird to you that you don’t need to wear glasses on the field. And I was like, No, I could see it. Right. But my other sport was basketball. So big orange ball. Not that hard to see. So I just never went in on like the sports goggles or contacts, which would have been easier.
ALEX: I think I was I was pretty good in Little League.
BOBBY: On it way back now. Two guys talking about their little league highlights.
ALEX: Right. Relive in the glory days. High school was a little more hit or miss. I, right, raked freshman year.
BOBBY: Wow! Raked.
ALEX: Dude, I hit like 350.
BOBBY: Wow! What’s the OBP though?
ALEX: Probably like 350.
BOBBY: Yeah, dude.
ALEX: Abysmal sophomore in junior years.
BOBBY: What happened?
ALEX: I–
BOBBY: Talk me about it.
ALEX: –I, the the sample size became bigger.
BOBBY: Oh. Whoa, second base, right?
ALEX: Second base, yeah.
BOBBY: So you probably–
ALEX: I think, I think, I was, I was a pretty good defender, actually.
BOBBY: Yeah, you’re probably better with the glove than me. I was never much of an infield defender.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Never much of an outfield defender either. That’s why I got moved to the mount. I could feel the position at pitcher.
ALEX: There you go.
BOBBY: You know what I liked? Catching. I thought that that was fun. In a kind of, like weirdly masochistic way.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: You know, like, I’m definitely doing the most work out here. I’m in the most pain. I’m getting the most bruises out of this deal. Like it was kind of fun.
ALEX: I mean, you are at the literal center of the action, right. You are involved in effectively every single play.
BOBBY: Yeah. So what you’re saying is that you’re doing an entirely different job than the rest of the players? That’s the argument you’re making? So what you’re saying is that you think that there should be a second DH for the catcher position? Just like I’ve been saying, that’s the argument that you’ve been making for years.
ALEX: I don’t, I don’t think, I don’t know that that’s the argument I’m making.
BOBBY: You’re saying, your argument for having a pitcher, a DH for the pitcher is that the pitcher does a different job, than everybody else.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: A harder job, which is the same thing you’re saying about catcher right now?
ALEX: Well, I mean, my my k- I can’t believe we’re doing this. The cases that pitchers dedicate so much time to their craft that is completely different from everything else on the field. That they physically are not able to dedicate time to being a good hitter. Otherwise, they would have to sacrifice some of their- like catchers are bad hitters, and still hit like 100 points better than pitchers.
BOBBY: We’ll see how long that lasts. Okay, so Nikko not really a great answer for your question. Depends on what your team needs, I guess. Let’s do a voicemail now.
ALEX: Okay.
VOICEMAIL 1: Hey, Alex and Bobby, my name is Nick. And I’ve been a regular listener of the pod for just over a year now. Free agency has been really heating up post lockout. I’m really excited for that. And one thing that I’ve actually noticed in the past year, for me personally is a change for the better in my, my baseball fandom, more specifically, kind of how to separate the players on field value with their salary or the contract that they signed and being able to treat those things separately. As a bit of background, I’m a Brewers fan. So any mention of Jason Heyward’s time with the Cubs used to be a prime invitation for my friends to label him as overrated. Because he was making a lot of money and not really playing well. And in hindsight, that’s obviously really stupid. Fans clearly don’t have a serious financial stake in play or payroll. So Heyward catching all that flack just because the rig is decided to give him Scrooge McDuck money demonstrates really a lack of understanding of how franchises the run. And obviously just a really weird way to be a fan. So my question for you is this, can you remember something about your early fandom, either baseball or otherwise, that changed once you started doing the podcast? Love the show, keep up the great work and look forward to hearing your thoughts.
BOBBY: This is a tough question. I mean, there definitely are things that that we’ve changed our, or or I guess more so like refined our opinions on.
ALEX: Right. Like there’s some really easy answers here just about how we like, consume the business of baseball and think about it and talk about it.
BOBBY: Yeah, like I’ll say, for myself, I barely ever paid attention to things like arbitration.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Honestly, I didn’t really pay attention to payroll, all that much like league wide payroll. I would obviously pay attention as it affected the New York Mets. And I knew that the Yankees route spending most everybody in the Dodgers route spending mostly everybody. And I knew that the Rays were spending no money. And that was kind of like the extent to which I cared about this. I never really cared about League wide trends in that respect. So I guess that would probably be my answer is caring about the like, health economically of the sport. Uhm, but similar to what Nick is describing. I was like, Jason Bay is a waste of money.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Bobby Bania de like, got my jokes off too.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And and now I’m like, that was a waste of time and effort and not funny at all. Remember being like good thing, we’re paying Óliver Pérez all that money to suck? Just excavating all of my worst player salary takes, live on the podcast. You never had to worry about that. Because the A’s never actually paid anything.
ALEX: Right, right, exactly.
BOBBY: Don’t–
ALEX: It never crossed my mind.
BOBBY: –have any skills in New York closet.
ALEX: I definitely think I changed the way I watched players and team or like, enjoyed other players in teams, especially when I was younger. It was very much like I’m an A’s fan, so I know all the A’s players. And I see the teams that come to town. I mean, this is what we’re talking like, pre MLB.TV also.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: So the way that you were actually able to consume the sport was very different. And I think maybe due in part to the way the A’s run their franchise. But also just due to the kind of accessibility, the relative accessibility of of other teams and players.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: It got me far more interested in like, what was going on around the rest of the league. And like, actually enjoying seeing other teams have success. Other players have success. I feel like, weirdly, this isn’t fair. But like, Mike Trout was one of the first non-A’s players who I was like, watching religiously.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: It’s like, obviously. But that was, it was just kind of like, Oh–
BOBBY: Why? He can’t even get his team to the playoffs? Like why were you watching him?
ALEX: Right he’s–
BOBBY: He’s overrated–
ALEX: –overrelatable.
BOBBY: –in a bust.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: No, I hear you. I think I had like a personal transformation as to how I thought about baseball. Like how seriously analytically, I thought about baseball, from like a sabermetric perspective, at the same time that we were starting the podcast. And that was because I was reading a ton of FanGraphs, instead of going to class or, instead of paying attention in class, I was there physically, just not mentally, right. And I was listening to a ton of effectively wild and and just like, having my mind expanded as to what you could actually pay attention to and think was cool in the baseball world. Rather than just kind of the the intangible things like fandom love. The feeling of being at the ballpark like a beer at a game, a hot dog, like all that stuff has always been really important to me. And then I feel like doing the podcast, and also just kind of like, coming of age at a time where so much baseball media is accessible to us. Has been able to, like add those things into my general love and pleasure for the game. As opposed to just like making me into one type of fan or another. I feel that we talk about like, types of fans or what people like about the game in such a binary way. And it’s not really always like that. And that’s what the podcast has kind of proven to me is that we bring on people who are much more analytically focused and talk to them, and we can still enjoy that. And they can still enjoy being on the podcast. And we bring on people who are much more I would say, like qualitatively interested in the game versus being quants. And that’s all fine. And that’s all good. And that’s what makes baseball so rich and beautiful and rewarding to be a fan of.
ALEX: Yeah, I agree. The last thing I’ll say is I think I just became far more aware of baseball’s culture war. And just like the way–
BOBBY: How do you feel about that? Do you feel good that you’re much more aware of the culture war now?
ALEX: I don’t, I mean–
BOBBY: You’re on the frontlines, dawgs.
ALEX: I think I just, I started to, you start to realize and this is just like a part of getting older and learning about the world is like sports doesn’t exist in a vacuum, right? You see how intertwined it is with the rest of society and how it’s how, you know, our our world’s worst inclinations are fed into the sport and vice versa. Yeah, I don’t know if that’s a, if that’s a good or or bad thing for my fandom. It’s broken my brain a little bit.
BOBBY: Well, we actually got a question about that. How, how do you deal with the fact that your brain has been broken from talking about baseball or looking at baseball or analyzing baseball in this way? So let’s, let’s go to our next question.
VOICEMAIL 2: Hey, guys, it’s me, Jamie, again. I call a lot, but because I love you guys. I just wanted to, I was having some thoughts. And, you know, I just got back from broadcasting a high school baseball game. So reminder that baseball is alive and well and awesome, out of the hands of greedy billionaires. But I was just thinking about how, you know, I’ve kind of, you know, honestly, disengaged a little bit from the podcasts recently. Because I’ve just been so desensitized to all these horrible things that are happening in the negotiations right now. I mean, I, I feel like it’s kind of the same as you know, the way I treat, you know, climate change. Is this horrible thing that is pissing me off so much this ignorance from people in power and like, I just have to check out for my own sanity. And I mean, I was just wondering if you guys kind of like, feel a need to stay in it, you know, as people who do this podcast and stuff. But I mean, I love you guys for you know, keep continuing on with that and respect you so much for it. But I, it’s really hard for me. So I was just wondering kind of your your thoughts on that? Thanks, guys!
BOBBY: How do you avoid nihilism, Alex? In all aspects of your life? I think that we’ve probably slipped into baseball nihilism at moments where–
ALEX: Moments.
BOBBY: Yeah, but honestly, though, I don’t feel like we’re that, we don’t like fear monger about how baseball is dead and ruined, and we can never make it better. You know, like, one of the most frustrating things, for me personally is like discourse without solution oriented conversation in it. Like we can have discourse all of the time about how or why baseball is being ruined by billionaires. But then also, every once in a while, we need to like reground ourselves and talk about what would it look like without those people. And I think that we’ve done a pretty decent job enough so that I don’t feel the sensation that Jamie is feeling every time we get in front of the microphones to do this podcast. But obviously, it leaves a sour taste in your mouth all the time. In a, in a kind of like, I guess I just have to shrug and be cynical way that there’s like 15 moments for me like that every week, you know, when it comes to baseball. And we make jokes about like 12 of those moments. And then there are three moments where I’m like, I don’t even feel like making a joke about this, you know what I mean? And at the end of the day, like, our passion for talking about the things that are wrong in the baseball world only exists. Because we actually love the sport and the community and the good aspects of it so much. And so if I can, at the end of a long podcast where I like, feel like I’m just throwing my hands up a lot. If I can finally like reorient myself to that, I It feels more cathartic than crushing. And it’s interesting that he compares it to climate change, because I also feel that way about climate change. And then I hear pe- I hear people who dedicate their lives to studying climate change or to climate activism. I hear people be like, you have to resist that urge, you know, to just throw your hands up and feel nihilistic about it. Because there are still things that we can do. And then I feel like I have to be that person for baseball, you know. You have to resist the urge to just completely give up. But I don’t blame anybody who feels that to the point where they are pushed away from the sport. Like the, like the, the greedy billionaires who run the game, have done their their part in pushing away as many people as they can.
ALEX: Yeah, I mean, I find it exhausting to consume the sport a lot. And again, it it extends beyond just baseball to other, like just living under late capitalism.
BOBBY: Yeah, we’ve had practice elsewhere.
ALEX: Right. I just, it is really hard not to, like I feel like my emotions to some extent, get sort of flattened where I’m like, I don’t actually have a intelligent way to think about this thing. I’m just like, wow, fucking normal world, man, okay.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I guess you’re just gonna get the team for parts.
BOBBY: Sure.
ALEX: And I think if anything, you know, during this podcast is a good exercise for me of like, trying to push beyond that, for all the times that we just kind of throw our hands up in the air on this podcast, I think we do a fair amount of, I think I get reinvigorated by seeing the communities of fans out there who really give a shit about their team, about their their fan base, about their city. And this extends to minor league teams and cities almost maybe more intently, right? Seeing how many people have like, cared and checked in about the state of minor league players over the last couple years has been really like when things feel really bleak about this sport. Which is most of the time knowing that there are millions of people out there who see this as an issue that needs to be rectified and talked about is heartening. That’s why doing the T shirts, and donate the proceeds to to More Than Baseball has been, I feel like a really fun exercise, a really fun project for us.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Because it has, because it has allowed us to connect with fans in a way that I think we probably wouldn’t otherwise, right? There’s kind of a shared sense of value and responsibility, almost. As consumers of the sport to say, hey, maybe there’s a better way?
BOBBY: Yeah, I think so there are so many things and systems in our world baseball being just one of them, that are completely stacked against everybody except capital. As you said, like, so many aspects of late capitalism, we’ve had practice with dealing with this kind of thing. And I just think you have to pick and choose the things that you want to hold space in still. Because it’s, it’s much harder than it should be to like, actually hold space and affect change in different parts of the world. And you have to choose the things that you’re not going to let them ruin for you. Some of the best things in the world are commoditized and commercialized. And, frankly, co-opted for profit by like the worst people in our country. And a lot of things that I love, are on that list. Like, if you think about, I like going to museums. I’m not like an art history buff or anything like that. But I like the feeling of going to museum and seeing art, and whatever it makes me like evoke. And like being in that space. The art world is not doing great, like the art world is not helping out most people that it should.
ALEX: Like mon- money launder.
BOBBY: Exactly, on the timeline that it should. But does that mean that I shouldn’t like enjoy going to museum? No. And and baseball is the same way. Like those are, those guys are artists, not, not for the purposes of being excluded from being considered workers. But what they do is what baseball players do at a high level. Or even at a low level, like the game is art, to me. And so there are some things that you just though they have been commoditized and co-opted that you have to remove yourself from that, that worldview sometimes and just appreciate them for what they are, even though you have to like buy into it at a certain financial level to access it. I mean, until we change a lot of things about society, you’re not gonna be able to change that about Baseball. So I think that we should just enjoy Baseball in the interim.
ALEX: Well put.
BOBBY: Thank you! Uhm.
ALEX: Let people enjoy things.
BOBBY: Yeah, let people enjoy things.
ALEX: I think we need to remind ourselves of that, from time to time.
BOBBY: Like you and I? Or or like–
ALEX: What, I–
BOBBY: –via the society?
ALEX: No, I think that like me personally, like for all the, the frustrations and and venting that we do here. I think sometimes I need to remind myself to take a step back and be like, damn, this is just a sport, you know. Like we can enjoy–
BOBBY: Some people just like the Rays.
ALEX: Right. I;’m like–
BOBBY: Some people think they’re doing a good job.
ALEX: Yeah. And maybe that’s not the worst thing in the world. Like maybe you don’t like, I don’t know, I feel this way about against so many issues where you know, health care, you get really frustrated. And I, I don’t really have a solution, because I’m, I think I’m pretty dumb. But I just, I just think we should all have it. You know, and–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –like I think our sports should be, should be better.
BOBBY: I know.
ALEX: But, but if, if you think your sport is doing okay, or your team is doing okay, that’s fine. I’m not mad about it.
BOBBY: Yeah. And and ultimately, like, if people are already happy with baseball, that’s fine. In that case, I think you’ll still be happy with baseball once it’s better.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You know what I mean?
ALEX: Right,
BOBBY: And like, but we need to make space to not be mad at those people.
ALEX: Yeah, I agree.
BOBBY: Yeah, I see what you’re saying. Uhm, we got a couple team specific questions. You want to do some Phillies questions real quick?
ALEX: Sure.
BOBBY: Breathe in orange fire. asks, how much joy can we having a good conscience looking at the Phillies outfield defense numbers this season? I believe, breathe in orange fire, according to their profile photo is an Astros fan. So they’re saying how much can we laugh at the Phillies defense, just just as a primer for the listeners. That outfield will feature Nick Castellanos, Odubel Herrera, and Kyle Schwarber- Kyle Schwarbe,r and Bryce Harper, for less than stellar defenders. And then their infield will supposedly have Rhys Hoskins and Alec Bowman, [1:06:13], they’re not great defenders either at this point in their careers. So how much before it becomes bad natured laughing? And how bad a team’s defenses?
ALEX: Yeah, the chances that you’re gonna see incredibly awful defensive displays on a regular basis, I think is maybe not as high as one would think, you know, defense is the kind of thing I think plays out–
BOBBY: Over a larger sample.
ALEX: –over a larger sample size. And, and the kind of thing that maybe you cannot even always see with your eye, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Where a guy misses catching a fly ball, because he maybe doesn’t have the range, but, and maybe sometimes you say, oh, a better defender gets that. Or maybe you’re just kind of like, dude, get the shit out of the ball. And I went to the wall, like, what are you gonna do, you know?
BOBBY: Yeah. I think it’s funny that the Phillies are just not caring about defense. Like I wouldn’t think of it was funny if I was a fan of that team.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: As I have not found it funny that the Mets have–
ALEX: Yes, exactly, yeah.
BOBBY: –not cared about the people for the better part of the last two decades. But there is a breakeven point where if you have good enough offense, it actually doesn’t matter. And, you know, Kyle Schwarber, playing left field for the Cubs team that won the World Series. Or for the Cubs team that just missed going to the World Series in 2015. He was basically the physical embodiment of that breakeven point. So to to widen the scope and do that for an entire team, I think is at least interesting. Like if we only have teams saying, We we want light hitting defensive outfielders because we’re afraid of what it will do for our team UZR. Like that, that gets pretty boring on a league wide basis is some Kyle Schwarber is good enough that he should be paid a lot of money to hit very well for a team.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And same with the Castellanos. So we got another question. But what do you think of the Castellanos signing? I think I’m going to not enjoy watching him hit against–
ALEX: Right, yeah.
BOBBY: –my team 17 times this year. That’s what I think about that.
ALEX: Yeah, the Phillies are, man the Phillies are so weird. I–
BOBBY: I know.
ALEX: –never know how to judge them.
BOBBY: It made it even more complicated by the fact that Dave Dombrowski is their GM.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And yet, they still haven’t really made the huge trade.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That he is known for, I guess, because they don’t really have the prospects to do it the way that the Red Sox do.
ALEX: Right. Yeah, I think you may not enjoy, enjoy watching them but Nick Castellanos is good.
BOBBY: I’m worried for the like, cultural events that him being on the Phillies is gonna cause.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like the, the cauldron of Mets nonsense. And Nick Castellanos is powered.
ALEX: Right, there on a collision course.
BOBBY: Yeah, they really are. Like, that’s, that’s a lot of explosive material in one place.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Uhm, the Castellanos signing is like, it strikes me as the kind of thing that is, that is actually maybe indicative that the sport is not totally broken. That free agency is not completely broken. Now, do I think that the Phillies should use that as an excuse not to go like sign good bullpen pieces? No or or sign someone who can start a game that has not been [1:09:13] if he’s still starting games for them? I know that’s a sore subject for Philadelphia fans. But no, I don’t think that I think that the Phillies should be spending up to Luxury Tax because they play in a big market and have had enough successful runs that they should have enough money in the coffers. But he Castellanos is not a perfect player. He’s a player who does a couple things really well. You know, like slugging, extra base hits, he has a good arm. But he’s the kind of guy that teams have talked themselves out of signing for 5 years. $100 million.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And that he got that contract is like, a a a good indicator that maybe there are a few teams who are not totally out on spending money on good players.
ALEX: Yeah, he is kind of the anti-Moneyball type of player, right. Where he’s not necessarily a great defender. He doesn’t walk at above average rates or anything–
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: –like that.
BOBBY: He just hits.
ALEX: He just, he just hits–
BOBBY: [1:10:11] he gets it.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. So yeah, you’re right. I think it’s cool that teams actually are still willing to kind of reward that playing that pool a little bit. It’s going to be insufferable if he like has a a down year. I, and I think it’s *sigh*, it’s really unfortunate that anytime this kind of thing happens where I you know, I managed to find a little joy and a piece of news I’m like, *sigh* how’s this gonna get fucked up from?
BOBBY: The Galaxy brain that’s gonna be going on in that outfield between Bryce Harper’s beautiful mind.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: Nick Castellanos [1:10:46]
ALEX: Oh my gosh.
BOBBY: Existentialism is gonna be really special. So I’m looking forward to that, if nothing else. All right, we we’re running short on time here. So I’m just going to bang through a couple of these that we got. We got, we got a question from Shrimp Factory, Shrimp Factory, Alex, thank you for writing Shrimp Factory. Given how Collective Bargaining Tax conscious the Red Sox have been, as of late, and sign the fact that they signed Trevor Story. What are the chances of keeping both Rafael Devers and Xander Bogaerts, I think, pretty low, pretty low based on ownership priority. Though, that is a false binary to have to choose between those two and I think that the Red Sox and [1:11:26] could, to me, it would be surprising if they chose to sign Story instead of resign Bogaerts.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You know what I mean? Like, that feels like an unforced error. If ultimately, you don’t plan on going over the Competitive Balance Tax for a couple of years, in order to keep all three of those players. So you already got rid of Mookie Betts. So what was that for? If you can’t keep Bogaerts and Devers.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like, ostensibly when you traded Mookie it was because a couple guy, a bunch of guys were going to be coming up soon, and you needed the space to keep those guys. So then to go out and sign Trevor Story wouldn’t make a ton of sense. It’s like when the Thunder traded James Harden and then spent even more money than it would have kept than it would have cost to keep James Harden. Just because they felt bad about trading James Harden.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Learning into a really great player.
ALEX: Like they don’t need to do this kind of roulette through players.
BOBBY: No, they didn’t–
ALEX: I mean, no–
BOBBY: –to sign Story.
ALEX: Right, exactly. So–
BOBBY: Though it’s cool that they did, especially if they’re going to go over the Competitive Balance Tax now.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: We also, we got a question from Matthew, who wrote in to say, how fun is it that the Twins traded for Gary Sanchez and now have to go immediately to an arbitration hearing to explain how he sucks as a way to suppress the salary? That’s even played for them yet, the first thing to welcome in him in the door is a arbitration hearing.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: How much, how much of the Yankees work are you allowed to just plagiarize?
ALEX: Right. Like, can you go to them and be like, so we know you’re already thinking about this. You’ve been through this before.
BOBBY: Why don’t we just switch out, you know, Command F, Command replace–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –all of the stuff that says the Yankees we’ll put Twins there.
ALEX: Yeah. Or do you just pull up Phil Muchnick archive?
BOBBY: True.
ALEX: He’s kind of done a lot of the the work for you.
BOBBY: Exactly. We got a question from Chip, who says, my favorite thing that happens in Moneyball is Brad Pitt eating [1:13:18] popcorn out of a coffee filter while trading for Ricardo Rincon. What snack would you guys want to eat out of coffee, out of a coffee filter watching baseball this year? Just an absurd question. Thanks, Chip. You’re the best. My go to snack during baseball games is sunflower seeds.
ALEX: Does that mean you need two filters? One to hold the seeds and one to hold the the shells?
BOBBY: Yeah. Yep, it does. Unless I’m outside in which you can just in which case you can just spits seeds on the ground.
ALEX: That’s true, yeah.
BOBBY: What is your go to baseball snack?
ALEX: My go to baseball snack. Like if I’m like watching a baseball game, especially at the park.
BOBBY: Is popcorn, right?
ALEX: I would do like popcorn.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I don’t make popcorn at home every time I watch a baseball game. Although maybe that should change.
BOBBY: I don’t think you need that. That’s a lot of butter. You watch a lot of baseball?
ALEX: Yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: I think the funniest part of this tip is right is that he’s eating out of a coffee filter, [1:14:19]–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –coffee filter. It’s just a nice little packaged image of what Billy Beane is, who he is and what he believes. Is the day old coffee filter of the Oakland A’s. All right, let’s close it out with two voicemails, Alex.
VOICEMAIL 3: Hi, guys, first time, long time, this is Alex. For the pod, I’m really thinking a lot about the idea of expansion. And how the idea of this current group of 30 owners willingly choosing to split up all of their pots an additional two ways, kind of fundamentally goes against the way that they’ve acted. And it’s kind of leading me to believe that they wouldn’t want to expand anytime soon. Which is what makes the Oakland and Tampa Bay situations, so convenient for them to kind of cover up. I believe this is the longest period of time that baseball has gone without expanding, basically, since the first expansion. And you would think it would be a move that they should do. And the expansion fee would obviously be enormous. But over the long run, it would obviously, I think, very quickly, in fact, become a financial detriment to keep splitting whatever pots they get an additional two cuts worth to 1/32 instead of 1/30. I would love your guys’s thoughts on kind of how much do you think expansion actually seems likely, if at all? Because I’m starting to think it’s not likely whatsoever, Thanks!
BOBBY: This is I mean, this is a good question. And it’s obviously the devils in the details here. Like, it depends how much each team would have to pay in like an entrance fee. And how much the owners would prioritize like the immediate financial gain. And what they could then do with that money, like how they would reinvest it into, you know, a new stadium, or, you know, like a new streaming service platform that they could then resell for $4 billion in the future like they did with MLB Advanced Media. But it’s all about short term versus long term gains. And I actually think I would push back a little bit on Alex’s question and say, I think MLB owners have given up long term profits for the sake of short term gains. I would argue that it would be better for the sport to take short term hits on something so that you could some things like, you know, RSN money so that you could get better access or ticket prices, so that so that people could have better access to your sports in the long run, they be lifelong paying customers, as opposed to just people who tap out after three years. And so I think that that is an example of them putting short term gains in front of long term profits, which expansion, they would get huge checks right away. And even though they would be splitting it 32 ways instead of 30. You have to think that they will expand into larger markets. And so then those larger markets will then become revenue sharing payers versus revenue sharing receivers, as its outlined, as the revenue sharing system is outlined in the Collective Bargaining Agreement. So I, I don’t think that there is any like big financial roadblock to them expanding, I think it’s just in terms of like creativity and actually getting it done.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And like the desire to do it, because it’s a lot of work. And I don’t know how much the power brokers of baseball want to put that work in to actually make it work, work out in the long term and make those viable markets remain viable.
ALEX: Yeah, wouldn’t be the first time they procrastinated on a, on getting a job done for the good of the sport. And, and obviously, you add two more teams to the mix. That means that your broadcasting deals are in theory going to go up, there’s going to be more money that is coming into the sport as a result. Because you have two more markets that are in play.
BOBBY: Yeah, to more markets where you’re selling, where you’re selling jerseys.
ALEX: Yeah,
BOBBY: Two more markets, where you’re getting RSN deals. Two more markets, where you’re bullying local governments into sending you tax rebates–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –they build stadiums.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like a lot of all of that stuff that makes each individual market profitable now will then be the same for those two new markets.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Maybe even more so in the case of some more like, look like Las Vegas, who are just dying to have more sports teams, and they’re willing to compromise like most of their ethics to do so.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Yeah. So I would hurt in the long term? I mean, maybe but not noticeably.
BOBBY: Yeah, I think it’s, it’s hard to say because if those two new teams become like bad faith actors, and that you have two more teams like monkeying with service time, like, yeah, it could hurt. But then at the same time, like you now have two more teams that could potentially be interested in free agents. And you know, like, there’s a whole litany of things that would change and I don’t know how much we can address them until we know like what the markets would be and–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –how how the expansion would actually be formalized.
ALEX: Right, who the billionaires would actually be and you would think that they would want to court more folks who are splashy, who are splashy, this Steve Cohen types. Although I I maybe not maybe–
BOBBY: Not Jerry Reinsdorf.
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: Like we did this wrong once now you can. You guys should listen to me then. All right, let’s, let’s do one final voicemail, real quick.
VOICEMAIL 4: Hey there guys. So my cousin’s boyfriend is a low level minor leaguer in the Washington system. Nice guy, I’ve met him a couple of times. And I expect to see him at an upcoming family wedding. So I’m looking for advice of how I can bend his ear and give him something encouraging, some encouraging, or warm feelings towards the Players Associate- Association side of things. Which of course, he should be so lucky to join that association someday and play in the big leagues. And I don’t want him to be afraid about how the lockout is imperiling his livelihood and this whole thing is such a mess. And what could I say to this kid to get him thinking about his value and sticking to his guns during the lockout? Thanks.
BOBBY: This is a, this is a really interesting question, I thought. Like–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –because so often we talk about these groups of people as monoliths, but as we’ve discussed with the MLB Players Association, ma- the minor leagues are made up of people who all have different opinions about how things should work. I don’t think that there’s probably a predominant view that the minor league system is messed up and that you’re getting ripped off. But like we’ve talked about with, you know, with Harry Marino, for example, in the past, not every minor leaguer has the bandwidth to think about that, that on an active basis while they’re trying to, you know, hit higher than the Mendoza line.
ALEX: Right. They’re often well aware of it, right? Like most minor leaguers are aware of the conditions in which they play and that–
BOBBY: How much they’re being exploited.
ALEX: Right, exactly. But, right, and many of them don’t just like you said, don’t have the bandwidth to actually do, like, get angry about that, which–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –I get.
BOBBY: I think, I how I would approach it would be, and I apologize that it’s taken us so long to answer this question. We’ve just been obviously bombarded with news and a bunch of lockout stuff. So obviously, the listeners heard that this question came in before the lockout. But even now that it’s over, I don’t think that it really changes the approach that I would have to discussing this, to discussing something like this with someone who’s in the minor leagues. But the approach that I would take would just be like, to talk about how much I love baseball, you know, and, and to try to relate to this person, about their love for the sport? And the like, collective societal value that even something like Minor League Baseball has to a person like me. And then, and then have that be sort of like the setting off point from from which you start to discuss like, yeah, and it’s pretty, it’s pretty messed up. They’re trying to like monkey around with how many teams there are, and how many minor league players they’re gonna retain on a roster. And, obviously, it’s messed up how little you guys get paid, like that kind of thing. But, but I wouldn’t go into it being like, Hey, are you ready to burn down the house? Because I think most people, it’s actually not really that productive for them to think like, in the moment how crushing their exploitation is, because then, then it’s like, what can you even do–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –about it? That would be my approach.
ALEX: Yeah, I agree. I would just want to hear about his experiences on like a human level. As you said, we, we talk very broadly about the state of the minor leagues, and the the poor conditions. But these things vary so much from player to player from team to team league league. fit my guess is, while every player by and large experiences a lot of the same contours of the minor leagues. I think they probably all experienced those things in different ways, and are impacted by them. I, you know, on a uniquely human–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –level, right? So this guy might not be sleeping on a floor with seven other guys in a room. And also, you know, has has PB and J’s for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day. And also is spending 12 hours on a bus every day. I mean, maybe, maybe he has all these things, in–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –in which case, like, here’s your poster boy, for the sake of the minor leagues.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Uhm, but I think if you can relate on that human level, it becomes far more, it becomes far easier to actually open the door to that sort of encouragement. It’s also a good way to find out like, politically how you, how he feels about that right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like, like–
BOBBY: Has anyone approached you about a minor league union?
ALEX: Right. Right. And, and, you know, the answer to all of this might be, yeah, sucks, but like–
BOBBY: It is what it is.
ALEX: That’s, that’s the deal, right? This is what you sign up to do and which case we maybe have a little more work to do.
BOBBY: Yeah, we have a lot more work to do. I think that you, you’re right, you’re right. That’s like, relate to someone on a human level is never bad advice. Let’s wrap it here, Alex. Thank you everybody for listening. Just a quick reminder that you can buy Unionize The Minors shirts, and more Tipping Pitches merch for the proceeds to be donated to More Than Baseball, which will help said minor leaguers. You can follow us on Twitter, tipping_pitches, you can email us tippingpitchespod@gmail.com You can call in with your own voicemails and questions 785-422-5881. Not sure, I think over the next couple of weeks, our schedule might shift slightly because I have a lot of travel responsibilities. But we will be doing the all-gift draft again, as we do every year. So prepare yourselves for that. And we- we’ll be opening communication about when the episodes are not coming out on Monday. Anything else, Alex?
ALEX: I guess keep your eyes peeled for Tipping Pitches trench coats?
BOBBY: Oh, yeah.
ALEX: We have, we’ve already been–
BOBBY: Own Masonic emblem–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –right over the heart.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: No, that’s it. If we let the listeners get out of here.
BOBBY: We should, we should let ourselves get out of here. Thanks, everybody for listening. We’ll see you next week.
[1:26:17]
[Music]
[1:26:31]
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most, Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya!
BOBBY: This ad has a 504 Gateway Timeout, this pop-up ad on this article. All right, here we go!
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
Leave a comment