Bobby and Alex bask in the glorious prose of Bob Nightengale’s accidental poem and give Derek Jeter his due as a spurned former owner, then recap a whirlwind of a week in labor talks, including MLB’s astute weaponizing of the media, Rob Manfred’s press conference, the movement in the players’ latest offer, the concept of bad faith negotiating, and much more.
Songs featured in this episode:
The Beatles — “For No One” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and and and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about. It’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, I would like to start the podcast this week, by reading you a, a poem that I saw online. It’s been a busy week for me and moved into a new apartment. All of my belongings are strewn about haphazardly, as we sit here to record this.
ALEX: But as we sit here, it should be noted in person–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –face to face.
BOBBY: How, how do you prove that over audio? Like if I, if I reach over and like tap your mic while I’m talking?
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Do you think that that would be a different listener experience?
ALEX: Ye- I, it would be an experience for sure.
BOBBY: Uhm, despite all of that, despite my life being kind of chaotic, and this last week, poetry is something that that grounds me. And so I wanted to read this poem to you. And for our listeners, in this moment of chaos in the baseball world.
ALEX: I’m ready.
BOBBY: “It is now midnight. And no one is moving. As the two sides moving ever, so closer.”
ALEX: I really appreciated the inflections in your voice there.
BOBBY: Right. The inflections of me trying not to laugh–
ALEX: To laugh.
BOBBY: –too hard. Uh-hmm.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: That’s right, Bob Nightengale accidental slam poetry god.
BOBBY: “It is now midnight, and no one is moving as the two sides moving ever so closer”. Of course, I’m referring to the fact that as it was now midnight, no one was moving. As the two sides were moving ever, so closer, leading up to the Major League Baseball deadline to start the regular season on time. We got a little bit of momentum, something that we’re not accustomed to seeing in baseball labor negotiations, and it looked for a hot second, Alex. Like we were going to get a deal before the February 28th bargaining session concluded, and that we would be able to start the season on time. But that turned out to be a facade, you might say, because of what Bob Nightengale so poetically described. So while moving- while the two sides moving ever so closer.
ALEX: I, here’s the thing is, it it somehow makes sense, you know, like in a word in a weird, twisted way.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Certainly, certainly the two sides were moving. They they weren’t having a discussion.
BOBBY: Is is what you think happened here that Bob started one tweet? And and thought that he had scrapped that tweet language. And then he started a second tweet, but then just forgot to delete the first part of the tweet.
ALEX: I–
BOBBY: So this is, this is contradictory language here.
ALEX: Well, I mean, do you want my actual–
BOBBY: No one is moving and the two sides are moving ever so closer. Those are two different.
ALEX: My actual belief in what happened is that he was talking about everyone outside of the negotiating room. So reporters fans, again, it’s like midnight or whatever–
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: –and no–
BOBBY: So no one–
ALEX: –one–
BOBBY: –no one is moving as everybody is like–
ALEX: Right. Everyone is like–
BOBBY: –laying their tracks like this might happen.
ALEX: Right. I’m not going to go home now. Because the deal, you know, maybe coming down the pipeline.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: And as the, as the two sides are on the [3:48]–
BOBBY: Moving closer, no one is moving on the edge of their seat.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Glued to the edge of their seat as the two sides moving ever so closer.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: See, this is why we talk this out. Like this is why we start the podcast with this. Because I think annotating texts to find subtext is a really like under sold art form.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: In our modern media world, it’s all about like tweets and replies.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: It’s not about like getting into the nitty gritty of the language anymore.
ALEX: And I appreciate that Bob Nightengale so often allows us to consider a a a broader scope of how we can use the English language,–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –right? That kind of I think goes beyond–
BOBBY: It’s not all out there for us–
ALEX: It’s like–
BOBBY: –it’s all out there.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You have to, you have to earn it.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: This is we didn’t learn this at J-school.
BOBBY: Inverted Pyramid is all I remember learning at J-school. And I remember that Twitter, I actually learned in J-school, that Twitter was going to be very important for the future of journalism, and we learned that as baseball fans on Tuesday night as well.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: No, we actually learned nothing from Twitter on Tuesday night. That was anything approaching reality. Instead, we learned what the league wanted us to learn. We are going to talk about that. We’re going to talk about the fact that the first two series of the Major League Baseball season have been officially canceled by MLB Commissioner, Robert D. Manfred. And we’re probably going to talk about banning the shift. Like I guess, we’re going to talk about that and robot empires. From the same room, live from Brooklyn, New York. But before we do all of that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I am Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[5:33]
[Music Theme]
ALEX: Before we actually get into it, because and there is is a lot of it to get into.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: We should talk about what is at least according to one writer, an even bigger story than the labor negotiations and even bigger story in baseball right now.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: And that is Derek Jeter, is stepping down from his role as CEO and part owner of the Miami Marlins.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: Would you, would you like to venture a guess as to the writer who believes that this is the, a bigger story than labor negotiations right now.
BOBBY: Yeah. Starts with Tom ends with Verducci. The guy who’s had all access passes to–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –Derek Jeter, in the past the guy who if you’re listening to this and you you listened way back when, when Alex and I did that dramatic reading of Tom Verducci’s profile of Derek Jeter for Sports Illustrated, titled: The Boss is Here. I just want to say, you know, big thank you, if you want, email me your address, and I’ll send you a Christmas card or something. That’s like that’s deep cuts stuff right there.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Tom Verducci like semi-radically describing the desk that Derek Jeter was sitting at–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –like talking about how he’s the only human being on the planet who could turn around the Marlins. And now, whoa, three years later, there he is. He’s out, he realized that, oh, owners don’t actually want to spend.
ALEX: It, so–
BOBBY: George Steinbrenner was actually an anomaly.
ALEX: Yep, he was. Well, and so like, obviously, I I am being facetious when I when I when I somewhat endorse his theory that it’s a bigger conversation than- it’s a bigger story than labor negotiations right now. But it is kind of a fascinating twist that came amidst the the most tense moment of the offseason as–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –far. And as Verducci astutely points out, it is, it does tell you a little bit about the state of the sport that one of the this generations or the or I suppose last generations, most revered players–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –stepped down from being an owner. Tried it out and said, Damn–
BOBBY: this shit sucks.
ALEX: –this shit sucks. I’m getting out of here.
BOBBY: I know, it was, some ominous timing by Jeter stepped down when he did. And I think that it caused a lot of people to draw like conclusions about the fact that Jeter was stepping down in solidarity with the MLB Players Association. And I think that that’s kind of a little bit overblown. Like, I think that it’s more so coincidental that this came at the same time, and that Jeter was kind of getting out of dodge before the season was really getting underway, like while the lockout was still going on. But it’s a, it’s a pretty damning indictment of, I think the landscape of your sport when a revered former player shows an obvious interest in getting into the management side of baseball. With with a franchise that he wasn’t even involved with directly in his playing days. And in less than 5 years. After having the stated goal of wanting to turn Miami into a winning franchise, it’s a pretty damning indictment of where the sport is at that that player can’t last longer than 3 years.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like this is Michael Jordan going to buy the Bobcats. Except he still owns the Bobcats.
ALEX: Right, exactly. And because the sport has generally been doing pretty well over the last decade, two decades–
BOBBY: Even if the bobcats have been bad, and I’ve now been moved to be the Hornets. I just think that it’s it’s another one of those things that’s so indicative of the divide between players and owners and how they view what the sport should be like. Even if basketball which is the example that I just use, but, but it’s true of other sports in America too. Like even if it’s always going to be businesses business among the owner in class, like at least they understand that business is the sport. Whereas like baseball owners don’t really always seem to think that business is the sport. They don’t show the players the proper respect when it comes to acknowledging the fact that they are the the product and the workers at the same time. And that’s sort of like a unique thing to sports. Which is how we got ourselves here. I’m glad we paid our respects to Derek.
ALEX: I I’ve really come like like full circle on Derek Jeter. I mean, I it’s been really remarkable to witness the evolution of both his and Alex Rodriguez’ public personas over the last–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –5 or 6 years, right? Where, where A. Rod obviously was a villain for so long. And then kind of near the end of his Yankees career and those first few years in retirement, he had the redemption story. There were profiles written about him, and he was all of a sudden on TV and talking about baseball and everyone. Everyone was like I were work in on A. Rod.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And obviously–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –Derek Jeter has–
BOBBY: A. Rod industrial complex. It was alive and well.
ALEX: Yes, it was booming. And Derek Jeter said, Yeah, I’m gonna go become an owner. And we were like, damn, really, dude?
BOBBY: Yeah. Yeah.
ALEX: And now and now–
BOBBY: We love a based owner.
ALEX: I feel like the tables have turned. Yeah, we’re back on on jitsu side.
BOBBY: Yeah, geez.
ALEX: I think so.
BOBBY: I’ll tell you one thing, you know, who would not have stepped down from running the Miami Marlins because of seeing- because of differences of opinion over how to run a team?
ALEX: Who’s that?
BOBBY: Alex Rodriguez.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: He would have been like, mom making a lot of money here.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: It’s just like my landlord business.
ALEX: Yeah. Can we cut payroll more? Can we, can we run out 24 players? Do we have to go to the max roster limit?
BOBBY: Well, he’s getting to play out his fantasies in the National Basketball Association.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: We can’t start talking about A. Rod as early in the podcast. We have a continuing lockout to discuss. Where do we start? Like should we, should we start with a Rob Manfred press conference? Should we start with the night before the Rod Manfred press conference when for a couple hours there you and I were texting each other thinking that the steel might actually land somewhere before I kind of like rubbed the sleepiness out of my eyes at 1am Eastern Time, and realized, oh, man, it’s weird that Bob Nightengale and John Heyman and Buster Olney. Like these types of–
ALEX: Joel Sherman.
BOBBY: Yeah, Joel Sherman, like these types of guys seem to be the only ones who have this. And Evan Drellich, who has been reporting beat by beat since December 1st and earlier. He was kind of like our source text for dating all the way back to pandemic return negotiations. He’s radio silent right now. And Jeff Passan is radio silent right now. And Hannah Kaiser is radio silent right now. And a lot of people like got their excitement up thinking oh, they were about to reach a deal. And then the next morning turns out they actually were not that close to reaching a deal.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: So did you find yourself duped at all, that evening? Because I think that I, if you when read our text messages right now, I think you could probably find one from me that says Oh, shit, we might get a deal. Oh, this might be really happening. Bob might be getting this. Yup, Bob might have gotten the scoop to end all scoops finally.
ALEX: Solely because it was Bob Nightengale I still had hesitation, you know. I said, and I think I may have texted you that I was like I’m still I’m still waiting for Drellich to confirm anything. You know, like–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –and and I insert cheap joke about Bob Nightengale reporting the opposite of what actually happens. Bum shesh. But like it was a really bizarre, it seemed like it came out of left field that he all of a sudden [13:45]–
BOBBY: Have a joke, nice. Man, you’re full of them.
ALEX: I am. That again it as you mentioned, out of nowhere, that radio silence from some of the biggest reporters in the sport that he was having “the scoop” to end all scoops. That alone was enough to make me think that there was maybe something else at play. Although I think like many other people on on baseball, Twitter, and boy was that a night for baseball Twitter, man.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I have not felt that level of camaraderie.
BOBBY: Put that one straight in the instant classics.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like that, that one is running back the next night on ESPN Classic.
ALEX: I think that collectively a lot of people thought this might be it.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: That they have implemented their deadline. It would make sense that they would wait until the very last minute–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –to hash all this stuff out. But maybe they’re actu- this a, this is the light at the end of the tunnel obviously. It was not to be.
BOBBY: Uhm, yeah, obviously the no one was moving as the two sides were moving–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –so closer.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: But it followed like it, that, I think the thing that tricked all of us, dupe all of us, bamboozled all of us, lead us all astray.
ALEX: Right, pulled the the wool over our eyes.
BOBBY: Yeah, I think that the thing about it was that dating back to like, the first labor negotiation that I can remember even being aware of like covering was when we were in college together at the student newspaper, covering the NYU Graduate Student Union. Their contract, which was expiring with New York University, and they had a, you know, full on strike vote. And at midnight, if they didn’t get a deal done by then it looked like they were going to go on strike. And we were gearing up to cover that strike. The picket lines, send people to write new stories about that the very next day, and the news trickled in. And I, you had to start writing an article at 12:07, that they got a deal. And we were like, wait, what? Like we this was completely not the plan that we had here. And this was not what either side was saying. So I think that people, I think that people, whether they know it or not realize that that is a cadence that this kind of stuff follows a lot. And that’s what happened in 2020, with a pandemic restart, they waited until the very last minute. And Rob had the ability to come off the top rope and say, this is just going to be a 60 game season now. And to know now, or to know the next day, that the owners took advantage of the fact that fans were hopeful, on that presumption to leak stuff to friendly reporters who would report basically exactly what they were saying.
ALEX: Right, very useful foot servants.
BOBBY: And make it seem like they were making all of these big moves that they hadn’t yet felt comfortable making. But now all of a sudden, they’re going to move closer to the Union on the competitive balance tax. And now all of a sudden, they’re amenable to the draft lottery. And now all of a sudden, they’re going to meet somewhere in the middle, around 50 million on the pre-arbitration, bonus pool, all that stuff is coming out. And yet none of that stuff was really even passed across the table in that way. You know, I’m sure everyone has seen by now the Ross Stripling quote, where he said, “The owners treated us like we were dumb baseball players who got sleepy after midnight, and they started sneaking in all these things that we had not seen yet in bargaining ever. In this round of negotiations, they started sneaking across the table and proposals at 12:30am.” And that’s just like, insanely, insanely cynical behavior from the owners. Knowing that all of those details would be very hard for people to follow from the outside. And that they could control the tone with which those details first made it out into the world. And then the ripples that they would make among fans and media and interested parties, once they put that out there.
ALEX: And they and they picked up where they left off the the next day, right? After kind of setting the table.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: For things to to look like they were kind of on the up and up. And to to to make it look like that MLB was bargaining in good faith, obviously, deal was not reached.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Players came out and and said this is nowhere near accurate. And the league as they are want to do came out and said no, this this is, this on the players. We we tried, really? And and he credit words, do you you kind of called it, right? That was, that was a it was a late–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –night tweet–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –that says–
BOBBY: This is what a podcast is, give me my credit. Yes, yes. Yes.
ALEX: –that said, Hey, maybe maybe we are being had with with this, with these leaks that are coming out. And–
BOBBY: Look, if I’m going to be had at least I’m going to be had with my eyes open.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You know.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: I want to be had ball knowing I’m being happy.
ALEX: Yes. And and again, like you, you know, you kind of mentioned I think that they expected and probably assumed rightly that a lot of fans would not care to dig into the the nitty gritty details of a deal. They would just see things got really close. MLB made a really great offer last night, that got much closer to the players. And then when things fall apart, it’s very easy for, to think that maybe it was the players that didn’t come to the table, right? And this in his press conference.
BOBBY: Yeah. In the state media–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –but they after
ALEX: Yes. Yeah. Which ironically, they they did cut away, MLB Network did cut away before MLBPA’s press conference, which I’m not sure why. They they did that.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: They’re very good at both sides and things.
BOBBY: When it’s actually in MLB is interesting. Uhm, yeah, we should talk about, maybe we should talk about Rob’s press conference because I didn’t watch it. So tell me about it actually.
ALEX: Well, I I will, again, we are obviously talking about this days after it happened and so much of, much of what we’re currently discussing has already been dissected to bits by Twitter. But it still feels worthy to point out Rob’s somewhat jovial, demeanor–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –coming into the press conference, right? Uhm, he he got up there and was making jokes. He was–
BOBBY: Kind of vibes.
ALEX: –you know, right.
BOBBY: He’s working on his hobby.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. He was he was laughing. I think it kind of people, people getting their mics set up and stuff.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: It was a really interesting tone to strike. Given that you are the Commissioner of a sport who is about to announce its delay.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: I I think that like it really just underscored the kind of optics issue that a guy like Rob Manfred has, where while he is very much willing to kind of do the owner’s bidding and take a hardline stance. He doesn’t seem to really be able to read the room all that well.
BOBBY: Yeah. It’s I mean, to be honest, like the way that I read that, I mean, of course, it’s terrible optics to watch the Commissioner of Baseball. Like the screenshot of it is–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –of him, like smiling, while up there to talk about the fact that we’re gonna miss the first, at least two series of the 2022 Major League Baseball season. But to me like, this is just Rob being Rob. Like this is this is him in his element, you know. Like, the last week is what he’s here for. Like rolling out this playbook where you negotiate back and forth and back and forth, and back and forth. Or rather, you hold out long enough so that the last day requires 15 back and forths between the Players Association, and the league. And then you put something across the table that you describe to your media puppets as your last best offer. They later came out the next day and said that that was not our last best offer, that that was their last offer for the night, no in that back and forth. Which is semantics, but you can’t say that that’s your last offer. Because that’s not a thing in collective bargaining. Like legally speaking, you can’t say we’re done giving offers because that would mean that you’re deadlocked. Which would mean they would have to go to a court to decide how to resolve this labor dispute, the strike or this lockout in this case. And you go back and forth that many times on the last night. And you put the ball, you push the ball forcefully into their court, and make them say no, to starting the season. So that you can disguise the fact that you’re the reason that the season is not starting, that you started this lockout. And what foot did we start this lockout on? It’s actually a defensive lockout, the Players Association is so radical, and they’re on the offensive, this time around. They are out for blood after the last two CBAs have not gone in their favor. And so rather than looking like the greedy billionaires that they are by locking everybody out of the sport of baseball, when they don’t really need to do that. They’re always making these subtle moves that make it seem like the players are the ones choosing the fate of how this goes. And that is just that’s not the way that labor negotiations works. Like the tone of labor negotiations and the intractability of labor negotiations is 98% of the time set by the capital side. Because they are the ones saying we don’t want to give you X, we want to take back more about why. And typically the union comes with their set of proposals first, and it’s on the capital side to determine where they’re going to start giving and where they’re going to hold their hard line. And baseball, they just hold their hard line on all on all clauses. And it actually is kind of like death negotiating for at these key moments. The deadline that by the way, MLB set to start the season on time and arbitrary deadline. The lockout which by the way, didn’t need to happen. It’s actually deft negotiating that on that final night. The last thing that happened was the players had to say no to a proposal.
ALEX: Oh, absolutely!
BOBBY: Even though the it’s like even though the proposal was nowhere near an actual completion of bargaining, they made it seem like it was. And so Rob Manfred comes out the next day of course he’s having the time of his fucking life. Like he just in his eye, he just won that negotiation. And he’s, what is he? He’s a labor lawyer, he is a corporate side labor lawyer. Nothing makes him happier than making his capital clients happy.
ALEX: Right. And as we, as as as kind of trickled out, in the, in the days following a lot of people were talking about how the owners are actually probably fine with missing games through April. Because attendance numbers are usually lower in just due to weather in that month. And then also, you know, with with expanded playoffs kind of in the pipeline, there’s the opportunity that they’ll be able to recoup any losses that they do take in April, anyway.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: But it was really, kind of quite a sight to see this being talked about, like so plainly that that really is just all posturing, right? This is the, this is not the owners saying, this is our last resort. Even we are, you know, we’re willing to do this, even though we know it’s gonna hurt us financially. It’s them saying, yeah, this doesn’t make a difference to us.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Which is really just a staggering thing to do, when not only is like the health of your sport, on the line.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And the relationship with your players, but also the livelihoods of 1000s of people who actually work the stadiums where the concessions, were at the parking lots. It it was just very illuminating, how much this sport and these negotiations are are simply just chess pieces to them.
BOBBY: Yeah. And like, how insulated they’ve become, from reality. I mean, in a general sense, but specifically, the supposedly economic reality of what baseball was founded on. Like, why did baseball become big commerce? Why did baseball get an antitrust exemption? Why is it America’s Pastime? Because it’s exhibited baseball games for fans to come, watch. Now, when whoever invented the television, invented the television, that of course, changed the economic pie of baseball. It grew it, a ton. And then suddenly, it made the exhibition of baseball games. less important, though, still important, because not everybody had a TV, and then not everybody had national access to baseball. And not as much advertising money was pumping into the sport. Because of that. And now in the last 20 years, live television has really gone in the tank. And sports have declined a little bit from live TV from cord cutting, but not as much as everything else. So those ad dollars are even bigger towards sports now. Because they are a bigger portion of the pie, even if the pie of you know, traditional TV is smaller than it used to be. And the owners, through their own decisions have said, Great, that trend is great for our pockets. It’s bad for the game. But it’s great for our pockets. And for them to admit that and admit that going to baseball games, the people who are the most fanatical, and come out to the park, and create those lifelong connections with sports teams. That those people are less important than the people who buy cable but don’t even watch baseball. Because of how many dollars are directly routing into baseball teams, through those actions, those two disparate actions. I mean, it’s not surprising, because we’ve been talking about it on the show for 3 years now. But it is kind of like, the the safety is off. Like we’re no longer dealing with a group of rational people who care at all about the health of the sport. And I don’t know if we ever were really because I wasn’t doing this podcast in 1981. But I kind of get the sense that we maybe were for a second–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –there.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: You know, like, you read Lords of the Realm, you see that, yes, there was always about the money. Yes, it was always about commercializing the sport. Yes, it was always about billionaires trying to get their profit. But at least their profit was motivated on the fact that baseball was interesting and entertaining. Not on the fact that they can make money in spite of baseball.
ALEX: Really not a good sign for your sport when anti union, hardliner, Jerry Reinsdorf is actually like, one of the more reasonable guys in the room, right? He has not been at least just according to kind of the folks familiar with the situation. He’s not been one of the more militant owners trying to crack down on the players, right? And I think that’s due in part because she has a relatively good baseball team right now.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: That I think he actually, you you know, that larger market teams, or at least teams that are in a good position right now, I think, are probably less inclined to want to delay the season. Because they actually have a vested interest in playing baseball. And it’s why it is the the Diamondbacks owners and the Tigers owners. Who are–
BOBBY: The Tigers owners, one of the Chris Ilitch, one of the members of the Cespedes Family BBQ lease terrible owner.
ALEX: Yeah, yeah, we we might have to do some reshuffling there of the rankings.
BOBBY: No, let them have him. We had a better squad.
ALEX: We do, yeah.
BOBBY: I don’t see Steve Cohen out here saying, Viva lockout, you know.
ALEX: I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah, good thing we didn’t pick pick Bob Castellini [31:08].
BOBBY: Never even considered him, never even other than the fact that I could get a couple of good jokes about wholesale produce out of him. Like he’d never even crossed my mind.
ALEX: But like, is some of these negotiations are so unserious at this point, right? Like the–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –like some of the owners the you know, some of the aforementioned owners, Chris Ilitch, Bob Castellini, etc, actually thought that the MLB was giving too much in these proposals, right? They said–
BOBBY: I know.
ALEX: –the luxury tax is actually too high already. You need to be giving less to them, right? Meanwhile, it it came–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –out that teams, some owners wanted to include meal money in counting towards the luxury tax. Which is like just such an asinine slap in the face–
BOBBY: Yeah.ALEX: –to the whole negotiatin
g process. I do not know how the players did not storm out of the room when they heard that, although they were pretty angry.
BOBBY: I I really just think it’s because we’re dealing with a group of people who have had every roadblock to their quote, unquote, “success under capitalism”, removed from in their lifetime. Removed for them through legislation, through more legislation, through mostly legislation in the United States of America. Rewriting the tax code basically themselves, you know. Lobbying to elect whoever they want to elect that will be beneficial for quote, unquote, the aca- capital T, capital E, “The Economy”. Which really we know is actually just for the people who already have the wealth that makes up the economy.
ALEX: Uhm.
BOBBY: And they’re like, why should baseball be any different, they don’t think baseball should be any different. They think that they should be allowed to use any tool on their tool belt that they have ever used in their lives, to make as much money as possible. To help with the union, to help with the sport, to help with the product. And that’s why, I mean, maybe we can use this as an opportunity to talk a little bit about one of the proposals in MLB’s last best offer. Which was, that they would be able to implement rule changes with a shorter runway. Instead of having to communicate the rule change that they want to make a year ahead of time. Or rather, before the season starts, that they would be able to implement rule changes with 45 days of notice. So in theory, the rules could change on average, every, you know, couple months.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Turning the baseball calendar, which I mean, for a lot of reasons, is absurd and unnecessary. Mainly being that the players are the ones who actually play the game on the field. And I don’t totally understand why management should be the ones completely dictating rule changes that materially affect their ability to go out there and play and win and earn in the future. But it’s the type of proposal that just you have a hard time as a union member, understanding why that’s something that they need. And it hasn’t been truly articulated to you throughout the bargaining process that this is something they want and why it just comes up on the last day. And you’re like, So why were you waiting to roll this one out? Like why didn’t we get a proper explanation for why this is something that you need? Is is the thinking that like you need to be able to be more nimble. Like this is the tech world or something, like if someone is tweeting in April that the games are too slow. We need to put a shorter pitch clock by June. Like you can’t think about it on a year by year basis, you have to think about it on a month by month basis. And then when the players roundly rejected this, it suddenly was like a thing that MLB was like blustery about. They’re like mad that they can’t change the rules every 45 days. Like the players were just going to be like, Yeah, sure change the rules every 45 days.
ALEX: It should be noted that they actually did offer that in their latest proposal.
BOBBY: I know.
ALEX: Right, after this is a week later.
BOBBY: Right. The players did [35:31]–
ALEX: The players, the players offered this you they can change the pitch clock, they can make the bases bigger. Great, bigger, bigger bases, bigger ball next? Bigger gloves. And–
BOBBY: [35:48]
ALEX: –and shift restriction.
BOBBY: I although the one thing that they did say no to was robot umpires.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Because that has a more direct, that could potentially have a more direct material effect on how certain types of players make money. And that that would be too dramatic of a change for a large class of players. We don’t know which class of players that is yet because we haven’t really seen like a long term experiment of what this would look like at the Major League Baseball level. But you could see it having a dramatic effect on pitchers or a dramatic effect on hitters or a dramatic effect on certain types of pitchers, or certain types of hitters. So players were like, No, you can’t do that within 45 days, we need more time for that. Are you okay with this? I mean, in general, like the like, are you okay, with the rule changes? We don’t need to litigate every single individual one. But at least for me, I’ll say I don’t like that this is part of collective bargaining. Although I don’t think it should be at the Commissioners complete and total discretion. But I don’t like that this is now something more for them to argue about. Like more for the owners to try to assert themselves into it doesn’t seem right to me.
ALEX: Right. It’s another place where the players are going to have to make concessions, right? As they, as they did, as they came back and offered the the 45-day timeline. It does feel really weird that this sort of thing that deals directly in what is happening on the field, right? Seconds between pitches, and that sort of thing. Is, right, is negotiated in the contract of the terms of the player’s employment, right? Like it just feels like a, like a different conversation. And it was really weird to see this kind of come up at the very end. And I’m not sure why that was. Like is it to distract from the the strife over some of these more naughty, complicated subjects? Like everyone started talking about banning the shift in like, a week’s time. And I was like–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –is, is this a plant? Like what, there was the, there was an article in The Athletic that quoted, Joey- Joey Gallo, right? Where he talks about his–
BOBBY: Thumb coats for him.
ALEX: Right. Yes, yeah. his distaste for the shift. And I don’t know–
BOBBY: I love Joey but, yeah, of course. Of course you want the rule that’s going to help you.
ALEX: Yes. It just felt weirdly coordinated–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –to me.
BOBBY: Wow. Oh, wait, hold on. Are we about to open our third eyes right here?
ALEX: That we are.
BOBBY: Just a podcast with two guys sitting in the room opening the third eye. I thought Jeremy Frank put it about as tightly as you can in terms of what I feel about this issue. Which is that he tweeted, “MLB’s goal is to rightly increase balls in play, and reduce strikeouts. So there’s more action and diversity in the game. But banding the shift only really benefits left-handed sluggers who strikeout a lot.” Like that’s what I’m saying about Joey Gallo, I’m sorry, Joey Gallo, that at some point in the process, you were steered, or you chose to be an exclusively pull hitter with a flyball swing, so that you could access your AD grade raw power. That’s a choice you made. And then like halfway through your career, if they ban the shift, that seems lucky for you. But it’s not righteous that they banned the shift for you. There was nothing wrong with the shift.
ALEX: We’ve been doing shift has been around. It’s not it was not invented in 2002. No, right? This has been around for like a century.
BOBBY: This feels like if you banned double teaming Michael Jordan.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like oh, he’s so good. We have to double team him. And then Michael Jordan was like, Ah, I’m so good. I should be able to play one on one with everybody. Like that doesn’t make any–
ALEX: Right. That is less impacting my ability to compete. And is not fair.
BOBBY: I just don’t understand why Joey Gallo, great defender that he is, doesn’t also think it’s okay that the defense is choosing to do something that is beneficial to them. Like we’re playing a fucking game here we’re trying to win.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Not to mention, like, experiments with this have just been not super successful, right? Like, then you have to, this is now another rule that needs to be litigated in real time. Which we know that Major League Baseball historically is not great at litigating rules in real time. I do not want a replay review that is looking at where Didi Gregorious was positioned. I am sorry, I do not care.
BOBBY: Wow, new anxiety unlocked. I didn’t even think about replay review as it relates to the shift ban. But now that’s what I’m gonna think about tonight when–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –I close my eyes and my head hits my pillow. That’s just ridiculous. You, this make it non-reviewable. And while we’re at it make every single thing non-reviewable. Can we talk about pitch clocks?
ALEX: Sure.
BOBBY: Just another in a long line of examples of MLB trying to galaxy brain solution, a problem that they created. I feel like the blame for game length should be 70% league and game structure and 30% player. Like 30% player, Pedro Báez, you could go faster, like you could. A lot of guys could work quicker. But the glor- like the glorification of like Mark Buehrle, quick pitching, I don’t really think that every player should be like my Mark Buehrle. Like I think he was pretty unique. And the fact that he worked so quickly works to his advantage, but it certainly wasn’t a requirement of the position to work that quickly. And never has been–
ALEX: Right. Well–
BOBBY: –in the baseball history.
ALEX: –and and we didn’t have fans saying, Boy, a Mark Buehrle game is just much easier for me to watch. Then, another–
BOBBY: I think I had some fans like, who were like, I thought it was like entertaining to watch him work that quickly?
ALEX: Oh, for sure.
BOBBY: Yes. You know, like, I remember Johan Santana, working pretty quickly and admiring that about him. But at the same time, primarily, the reason that games are long, is commercials.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Like, that’s, that’s what really lengthens the game the most. I think that games would not feel that long even if they took as long as they do now, or 10 minutes less, or 15 minutes less or whatever. If the outcomes of each at bat, were not what they are currently structured as. Like if it wasn’t so many strikeouts, and walks and more balls were being put in play. I do think that it, that three hours would feel like three hours and three hours would not feel like the five hours that it currently feels like right now. I I could be proven wrong about this, but I fail to see how implementing a pitch clock is going to fundamentally change anyone’s relationship to baseball. And I’m feeling a little bit like Groundhog Day talking to you about this. Because I remember you saying that in 2018.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Like, probably verbatim honestly.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I’m probably just repeating a memory that I have with you.
ALEX: I mean, and and at this point in my existence as a baseball fan, I can absolutely say with the strongest possible conviction that I I don’t care if there’s a pitch clock. If they implement one, kudos!
BOBBY: This is just for the listeners at home. This is a truly Alex Bazeley experience. I can say the most possible conviction you can put on something is that you don’t care about it.
ALEX: I do not care, right? And like it may speed up games slightly and it may not.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And either way, I am not going to notice. So–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –go for it, I guess. I mean, like it’s kind of like a sure, I I don’t think, I don’t think anything is really going to change but it’s not necessarily going to hurt my viewing experience. And like you said if it there are certainly some pitchers to which this will be applied more heavily than others. And that’s, that’s great. But again, it just strikes me as this technocratic approach that we’ve talked about that Rob Manfred takes to the game. I’m not meant for it alone but him and his cohort of lawyers? Like it feel it really does feel like it kind of like a focus grouped response, right? What is what is the way that we can shave off the most time while impacting the game the least.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: And so they said, Make pitchers go a little faster.
BOBBY: If they spent 1/10 of the energy on making the game accessible to people under the age of 18 that they have on trying to implement robot umpires and pitch clocks. We would literally would not be sitting here having this conversation.
ALEX: We we’ve been talking about pitch clocks for like five years.
BOBBY: Yeah, just fucking shit or get off the pod. Rob.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Like just fucking do the pitch clock. I don’t even care. I’m actually pro-pitch clock now so we can stop fucking talking about whether we’re gonna get a pitch clock. I’m done with it.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I feel the same way about the Universal DH. I’m actually you know what, they should just do it now. So that I don’t have to keep getting on here on this fucking soapbox, sitting in a room with you, with 10 moving boxes and suitcases sitting around me. 5 days after I moved all of my belongings 3000 miles, talking about whether a pitcher has to throw a pitch within 14 seconds, 19 seconds or an unlimited amount of time. It’s fucking asinine, honestly. And I didn’t even think I was gonna get that man when I was joking at the beginning of the podcast about how we were talking about rotators. I didn’t even think I was gonna get this worked up.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Maybe that’s just the energy of being back in the same room.
ALEX: Can I just say, this is not related whatsoever.
BOBBY: Yeah, I did enjoy my dinner tonight, so good.
ALEX: Sushi?
BOBBY: Yeah, so your sandwich looks pretty good. Alex and I ate dinner tonight together. And he just had something completely different than what the rest of us are having. And I love that for you as I roll. You knew what you wanted. And you went out and got it. Like, if you think about it, your turkey sandwich was sort of sort of like the pitch clock to Rob.
ALEX: It just, it really was.
BOBBY: I wish he would just go to the bodega and get the fuckin’ [47:04], get it dude, it’s right there down the street.
ALEX: I just want to say that I love that they were having these negotiations at a baseball stadium, you know. Like MLB has cushy offices in New York,–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –in New Jersey–
BOBBY: I was protesting outside [47:25] one hear you were.
ALEX: Yeah, I was for different reason. But you know, pulling doing double duty.
BOBBY: Yep!
ALEX: I I just really, it brought me joy, thinking about a lot of players and lawyers, like, I don’t know, huddled in a locker room/ Or like a club? Like this is they were in Jupiter, Florida, right? Which is obviously where some of MLBs spring training sites are. And they’re–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –they’ve they’ve plenty of property down there. And and then just led to these beautifully bizarre, like photos of Rob Manfred walking across just like an asphalt.
BOBBY: Yeah. A lot of still camera like landscape shots–
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: –of Rob, like walking into the frame and then passing out of the frame.
ALEX: Yeah, exactly.
BOBBY: So good work by everybody involved.
ALEX: I I really–
BOBBY: [48:19]
ALEX: –appreciated it. Like I felt like I was there. The scene was set.
BOBBY: This is what we got into journalism for, actually. Should we have gone down there? Like, did we mess up?
ALEX: I mean, probably, yeah.
BOBBY: Okay. Well, I don’t really think it’s worth getting very deep into the details of the proposal that the Players Association made today.
ALEX: 20- immediately after spending 20 minutes talking about pitch clocks.
BOBBY: Right. Essentially, they kept the CBT thresholds exactly the same. They moved to down $5 million dollars on the pre-arbitration bonus pool. They, as Alex said, agreed to three of the rule changes but not the robot umpires. And I think they met in the middle on the draft lottery at 5?
ALEX: I think they’re it, I think they’re a pick apart at the PA is at 6–
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: MLB at 5.
BOBBY: Great. So it’d be five and a half six.
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: But I think more interestingly coming out of that MLBs company line was that the Players Association went backwards. Which, according to them, is only the case because of what the Players Association allegedly verbally talked about across the table in the marathon February 28th negotiating session. I’ll read you the quote from Glenn Kaplan, who is, I don’t know, how do I describe Glenn? He used to do PR for the Hillary Clinton campaign and Major League Baseball hired him to, I guess, run interference in the media on how CBA negotiations are going. I think that that’s probably as tight of a way I can describe it to listeners without spending too much time researching who Glenn Kaplan- Kaplan is and what motivates him. He said, “On some issues, they even went backwards. Simply put, we are deadlocked. We will try to figure out how to respond. But nothing in this proposal makes it easy.” So, Glenn Kaplan, to The Athletics, Evan Drellich, is suggesting that the MLB Players Association violated federal labor law on two accounts today. Do you think that the MLB Players Association violated federal labor law on two counts today?
ALEX: I mean, he said they did.
BOBBY: Well, when you put it like that, I think they probably did.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I think I actually think they did.
ALEX: This is not the first time this sort of thing has really come up either, right? The MLB in the past has kind of kind of tried to make the sly suggestion that maybe the players were violating labor law. And I actually thought it was interesting at Rob’s press conference, he went out of his way to acknowledge there’s a, there’s a legal definition of impasse. And that is, that is not the place that they are at. So Robert Manfred is aware of how these discussions should be going and how they should be talked about.
BOBBY: I think that because this is so precise, because this is such a legal process. Like we sometimes conflate the concept of some things with what that thing is, in practice. Like Glenn Kaplan saying, they even went backwards. It’s like, you went backwards from where? Where you thought that they were going to go on last Tuesday night? Or what they actually put across the table. Because if they went backwards from what they put across the table, you’re better off just filing that with the National Labor Relations Board.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And waiting for a court to decide whether they actually went backwards. Two and a half years from now, have fun doing that, we’ll see what a judge thinks. I seriously doubt that a very well-funded union who has been doing this professionally with a ton of resources for a very long time actually, engaged in regressive bargaining. That seems unlikely to me. They have a lot of high paid lawyers to make sure that they don’t do exactly that. And then the deadlocked part a part of it. Like you said, Rob, Rob acknowledged that impasse is a legal term. That means neither side will put another proposal across the table. And it needs to be essentially neutrally arbitrated. And that is also not where they’re at. Because MLB did not say we’re not giving another proposal back to the one that the Players Association give today. So it is really kind of like a sinister thing that they’re doing by trotting out this guy to suggest that they’re engaging in these bad faith tactics that are literally illegal if they were doing it. So that’s how you know that not happening. But most people don’t know that, so like, they’re banking on the fact that people will see that and think that they’re just like being shitheads.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You know, not that they’re actually like violating the law.
ALEX: The lockout has done many things. And one of the the most defining things I think, is it has really unmasked the contempt for fans and their intelligence. Because we are seeing this constantly, that they are not only disparaging the players in the media, which is to be expected, right? I am not expecting them to come out and say that things are all golden and rosy. But they are making the assumption that fans are either too uninformed or simply uninterested in the actual facts of the situation. And what that means from a labor perspective. Because they keep trotting out there and doing shit like this.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I, I appreciate their candidness let me just say that.
BOBBY: They’re making our job kind of easy. I thought this was a good opportunity to pivot really quickly to like two or three questions that we got in the last week. Because one of them, one that we got from Cal, in a DM, actually was asking kind of about this exact thing, which Cal said, Could you guys talk a little bit about what it means to negotiate quote, unquote, “negotiate in bad faith”? And if any of MLB’s behavior could constitute is that they said one thing that’s specifically on their mind is the league pushing back the deadline, and then sneaking stuff in the fine print. So what Ross Stripling was talking about in his quote to Sportsnet, Canada. Uhh, yeah, I mean, I can talk a little bit about, like, what negotiating in bad faith really means, like, obviously, I’m not an actual lawyer. But I had a lot of experience with like, the urge to say something is in bad faith, versus actually being able to legally call it bad faith and pursue that legal outcome. Because I think like bad faith actors is an often used phrase, in our country and in our society. Because there are plenty of bad faith actors who are not on the level with how they’re behaving, how they’re acting.
ALEX: Including quite often Major League Baseball.
BOBBY: Yes, most often, the 30 Major League Baseball owners, in in our case, for our purposes. But negotiating in bad faith means that you are, like lying in your negotiation, you know. Like, like, if you were obscuring the reality of why you were putting something across the table. So say, for example, in collective bargaining, the owners said, in this proposal, we are going to propose to get rid of free agency. Because within the next five years, we plan on contracting six teams. Because they’re not making enough money. And these are the six teams that we’re going to contract. And you said that at the table, and strong armed players into agreeing to get rid of their free agency, because you were planning on contracting six teams. If you then did not contract those six teams, or did not show why you didn’t end up contracting those six teams, then yeah, you could probably be considered as negotiating in bad faith. Or if you’re putting something across the table, that you don’t have the sign off as a low as the negotiator that you don’t have the sign off from your bosses. Like from the owners to actually agree to, that’s considered negotiating in bad faith. So it’s, it’s impossible for me to know whether they are actually negotiating–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –in bad faith, but it is a much more narrow term than I think most people who throw it around on Twitter, really intended to be like, they are bad faith people. And they, but they are not not unfortunately, not negotiating in bad faith.
ALEX: Right. Like, you may be able to say, like, boy, it really seems like the league is kind of user kind of bad faith moves on they’re [57:59]. Like like lowercase b- bad, lowercase f- faith moves, you know.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: But but, but there’s like a real meaning behind those words, capital B, Bad. If I need to say it again, capital F, Faith.
BOBBY: Right. Like, it’s the difference between me saying to you, Jeff Bezos is stealing his employees wages. And me thi- thinking that from a qualitative perspective, versus if he’s actually not paying his employees, overtime, that those are actually stolen wage.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: And he will actually lose that in the court of law.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Like that is the very fine difference between what it means to be a bad faith person and what it means to be negotiating in bad faith.
ALEX: Right. And unfortunately, like not being in the room, we have no way of knowing. Even if we think their negotiating tactics are skeevy and morally reprehensible, or whatever, whatever you want to slap on–
BOBBY: Keep going.
ALEX: –that boy.
BOBBY: Pull out the list, of adjectives.
ALEX: Thesaurus.com
BOBBY: That you write down to describe how negotiations are going. Yeah, so it’s very hard. And the kicker to all of this is that they could be negotiating in bad faith. And the league could file that grievance with the National Labor Relations Board. And you know what? They could even fucking win. And we wouldn’t know about it for like, three years.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: That’s the trouble with society. Like you have to wait a really long time. Wait for people in power to be held to account.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And typically, people in power know, or it can pay someone who knows how to get right up to the line and save the most money by doing that. All right, let’s let’s do one more question. This is a question that we got an email from Ian. And then I think we also got asked this on Twitter as well. I apologize, if you asked us this, and I did not name you on the podcast. Ian wants to know, now that the players rejected, quote unquote, “the owners last best offer that evening”. And I guess this probably would have been a better question to answer right after it happened. Because the players have since proposed, since put a proposal across the table. But Ian wanted to know, basically, does this mean that because they rejected that, that they can then start from scratch on all of the negotiations that happened that day? Like, essentially, did those happen in a vacuum? And because they didn’t come to a deal, does all that progress get undone? Or are they, he asks, are they still bound legally, to those concessions? The concessions that the Players Association made that day in terms of coming down on the competitive balance tax coming down on the pre-arbitration, bonus pool. All of those things. The answer to that question is yes, they are legally bound to those concessions. They, anything that gets put across the table, anything that gets set at the table promised at the table. Those are legally binding things. And that’s part of the reason why it’s so hard to get either side to move in these negotiations. Because once you do, there is no going back, you’re writing in permanent ink. And you can’t undo any of that stuff. Unless you’re taking your kind of total economic package down so much in another place, that you’re adding a little bit back here. Which even still might be considered progressive, might be considered what MLB is accusing the Players Association of doing. And so this process is much more like trench warfare than it is like the idyllic Donald Trump art of the deal. You just change it all at the last minute, you know, you’re like you try to convince someone that this is the better deal. Like it’s not, it’s not like that. It’s not the game theory, negotiating pokery style that I think a lot of people imagine it to be that you’re legally bound to every move that you make in a contract proposal.
ALEX: Isn’t Rob Manfred, supposed to be like Commissioner deals. Like this was kind of his thing is like–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –he’s good at the table. Am I wrong in thinking that?
BOBBY: See, I don’t know how he got that persona. He was a dutiful servant.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: But he wasn’t like a wizard.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: He won at the table. I think it’s fair to say, because for whatever reason, external climate, external factors, the composition of the Players Association. Because they were willing to sign off on those things, that they, that they put across the table. I don’t think that he like Jedi mind trick them–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –into signing some shit ass deal. And now the Players Association has suddenly learned the force and realized what was going on the whole time. I think that there were probably a lot of factors as to why those deals were not quite as beneficial to the players. One of those factors being it was really hard to foresee analytics having this big of a revolution on the role of young players in baseball.
ALEX: Right. Well, and also like, there was maybe a little bit of faith arguably too much faith put in owners to be good faith actors. You could say, Ray is like–
BOBBY: Oh my God, you’re you’re you’re part of the problem right now.
ALEX: But like, that’s kind of my my understanding, right? Is like they didn’t feel the need to crack down so much because they kind of assumed that owners weren’t going to be so Craven and like brazenly craven.
BOBBY: Right. Like our business is booming. Why don’t we all just share a little bit and spoiled.
ALEX: Right. Wow, ru- rude awakening.
BOBBY: Wow. Uhm, does that seem quaint?
ALEX: You know, we–
BOBBY: If this is booming, why don’t we just stab the sport in the back and push the players off a cliff while we still can.
ALEX: We all, we all get radicalized on our own timelines.
BOBBY: What was the thing that radicalized you? When it came to baseball?
ALEX: Like radicalized in the sense of like where we are right now? You and I having this conversation about being militantly pro player?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Probably Twitter, I think.
BOBBY: Twitter is real life, this just him?
ALEX: Uh-hmm. I mean, I think I find it–
BOBBY: Twitter is the new knocking on doors.
ALEX: You know what, changing minds and hearts one suite at a time. I think it was actually pretty instrumental to find a community of people online who were willing to be more critical of the sport and think a little more critically like from a political perspective, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: More than just a like, I want to, I want to talk about whether or not Aaron Judge is good or not, you know. Like, and I don’t know why that he is my just like go to example of a baseball player, you know?
BOBBY: What does that say?
ALEX: What does that say about the sport?
BOBBY: Wow! ‘Cuz he’s the face of baseball.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: You’re admitting it right, live on the pod.
ALEX: [1:05:25] the same we, this is–
BOBBY: One New York [1:05:27]–
ALEX: –Mike Trout came out and said, we stand together.
BOBBY: Yeah, that’s right. Mike Trout said we’re gonna start pushing Rob Manfred’s cars into the fucking river.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: That feels like a pretty good place to end podcast.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Uhhh, where can people reach out. 785-422-58881, tipping_pitches on Twitter, tippingpitchespod@gmail.com. If you have more questions about the CBA, if you have questions about minor league baseball as it as its opening day approaches. Because it will not be affected by the Major League Baseball lockout. Please don’t hesitate to write or call in. There are a bunch of questions that we didn’t have time to get to today. We just wanted to kind of let it rip first podcast back in personalities.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: First of many.
ALEX: The vibes are already flowing. I mean, I can just tell, I, before we get out of here.
BOBBY: We’re in the deal zone. Did you see this in the NBA? Trade deadline?
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: With the James Harden to the Sixers trade?
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: Brian Windhorst described the negotiations between the Brooklyn Nets and the Philadelphia 76ers front office as, it is said to be that they are in the deal zone for [1:06:41]
ALEX: Ohhh, my goodness.
BOBBY: They were like, he was like it went from it probably won’t happen at the deadline, they’ll probably have to wait for the next offseason to it’s probably going to happen, they’re in the deal zone. So your [1:06:53] ran the po- the pod zone?
ALEX: I I’m using–
BOBBY: [1:06:56]
ALEX: –I’m using that every single episode.
BOBBY: Feels like something that Alex Rodriguez might actually be saying like in this moment right–
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: –now. I’m in the deal–
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: –zone.
ALEX: Yes. Okay. Close this deal, for me. Joey Gallo, fittingly, is trending on Twitter. And I I don’t know if you have seen that, the the Twitter trends now offer a little bit of context, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Sometimes when–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –when it’s not obvious, like about what the actual trend is about?
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
ALEX: There are employees for Twitter who have to write up a usually a like a brief, like less than one sentence summary. You know, maybe just a clause.
BOBBY: I feel like we could do that job.
ALEX: I think we could do.
BOBBY: Specifically for baseball.
ALEX: Well, here is, let me read you the description for Joey Gallo.
BOBBY: I’m ready to get right now.
ALEX: Fans discuss Yankees outfielder Joey Gallo’s past comments criticizing shifting it term–
BOBBY: You can tell that they write this for canceled culture things a lot.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Past comments criticizing shifting. Okay, keep going.
ALEX: A term used to describe the situational defensive realignment of fielders away from their traditional starting points.
BOBBY: That’s pretty accurate.
ALEX: It is, it was a very succinct explanation.
BOBBY: With that one straight from Google.
ALEX: After MLB networks, Jon Heyman reported that a player’s union agreed to allow the league to ban shifts in ongoing negotiations for the next collective bargaining agreement. I don’t even think that would fit in a tweet.
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: I think that’s probably longer than 240 characters–
BOBBY: That–
ALEX: Or 280 [1:08:31]
BOBBY: –is longer than some Bob Nightengale articles that I’ve read.
ALEX: Right. Like I, what I appreciate is that almost, almost every single name or idea mentioned in this. Like needed some sort of exposition to someone–
BOBBY: Another clause.
ALEX: –who is not–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –who’s not familiar with baseball, right? So you probably don’t know who Joey Gallo is. So we need to–
BOBBY: Sure shit on who fucking Jon Heyman is?
ALEX: Right. Exactly.
BOBBY: And the first exist- existence have to know who Jon Heyman is?
ALEX: I think he really is. Yes, I, frankly, they would have done people a service by just kind of [1:09:06]–
BOBBY: Not yet. Just just, yeah. Okay, thank you for that closing note, which I don’t understand. I guess it was full circle.
ALEX: Right. As you know, you you power up Twitter and you see that there’s a paragraph in the trending topics and you just have–
BOBBY: You have to read that paragraph.
ALEX: You have to read the paragraph.
BOBBY: Thanks, everybody for listening. We will be back next week.
[1:09:27]
[Music]
[1:09:27]
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya.
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
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