Alex and Bobby talk about unionizing the fans and getting in on labor negotiations. Then they review the week in CBA nonstarters and remark on the apparent tone shift among fans and media ahead of the league’s self-imposed deadline. Finally, they answer a few questions about minor leaguer NIL rules, the MLBPA’s strategies, baseball road trips, and more.
Songs featured in this episode:
Wilco — “Too Far Apart” • Talking Heads — “Road To Nowhere” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and and and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about. It’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, I’d like to start the podcast by reading an ad that I took out, in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel this past week. I took out this ad and I thought that it would really, it would really go over well. So can I, can I read it to you? I don’t know if you saw it. You don’t get the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel delivered anymore. You’re all on digital.
ALEX: Right. I–
BOBBY: That’s right.
ALEX: –do I have their digital subscription. So, so yeah, please graced us with this, whatever it is that you had to say.
BOBBY: This is an open letter from the National Fans Union to MLB Commissioner Robert Manfred. “Commissioner Robert D Manfred, on December 2, 2020, you published an open letter to fans about the Major League Baseball lockout. Obviously, you never intended for the fans to respond, but we accept your invitation to the conversation. Fans don’t need one way declarations about your cancellation of the sport we love. If you’re going to collectively bargain over how to best divvy up our money. What you really wants to be heard and respected. We want a seat at the table.” You like the ad copies so far, any notes?
ALEX: No, I think it’s great. It’s a, it’s very on message.
BOBBY: Uhm, uh-hmm.
ALEX: It’s pointed at all the right individuals, I think and I love the you know, the call to to action of sorts, right? That, you know, I mean, it’s it’s encouraging fans to to rise up and–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –band together, take matters into their own hands.
BOBBY: Right. This is populism at work.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: “Without us decisions will be made with only the billionaire owners and millionaire players in mind. Not the fans who support makes the entire enterprise possible. With us, MLB has an opportunity to change the conversation and turn this labor dispute into an historic calling in of the group most often disregarded. It’s time for fans to be part of the conversation over how our dollars should be spent, and how our favorite pastimes treat us. To all fans of MLB or professional sports who agree that fans have been ignored for too long, please join us. Our strength lies in our numbers. It’s time for fans to be more than spectators.”
ALEX: Bravo.
BOBBY: Let’s get–
ALEX: Bravo!
BOBBY: –that seat at the table, Alex. We’re storming in. We have Eric Adams and his SWAT team to bust the door down.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: And we’re going to get our seat at the table, if it kills us. That’s how collective bargaining works. You just get an ad and then you ask for a seat at the table. And then Congress goes right to amending federal labor laws. That’s, as far as I understand it, that’s, that’s the process.
ALEX: Well, like, Yeah. I think that if you determine that this deal may somehow impact you and in any way impact the how you consume baseball games or anything like that, you’re therefore entitled to–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –to a seat at the table, right? That’s why, that’s why I sit in on Cheez-Its shareholder meetings, right? Because like I have a vested interest in the quality of the product. That’s just it.
BOBBY: How many boxes of Cheez-Its would you say that you go through in one month?
ALEX: In a month?
BOBBY: In a month.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like if you go to the store every Sunday, do you need to buy yourself a new Cheez-It box every time?
ALEX: Usually, yes, I’d say I–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –probably, it’s probably three, maybe maybe two or three boxes a month.
BOBBY: I think that that gets you a seat at the table.
ALEX: I think so too.
BOBBY: Frankly, I think that gets you a seat at the board.
ALEX: Right. I mean, I’m giving them what? Like, like 150 bucks every year?
BOBBY: A 150 hard earned dollars.
ALEX: That’s basically union dues at this point.
BOBBY: That’s like 10 hours of work at what the minimum wage should be.
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: Before Tax. I mean, come on. You’re committing to the things you care about, just like my National Fans Union. That went over swimmingly on Twitch.
ALEX: When I initially read about this, I thought it was the Nationals Fan Union.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: And I was first very impressed that they were, you know, taking is, deciding to take a stand for all baseball fans. And also slightly puzzled over why they chose the Milwaukee–
BOBBY: Journal Sentinel.
ALEX: –Journal Sentinel as their, as their venue of choice for this message. But I would, I would respect it either way.
BOBBY: I thought you were just gonna say you were surprised that there was enough Nationals Fans to form a union.
ALEX: Wow.
BOBBY: These days. No, I’m sorry. I think we have some Nationals fans listen to the pod. It’s just friendly, and at least digs and at least shots being taken. Not even worth it because there’s not going to be any NL East when there’s no Major League Baseball. Which is the pace that we’re going at here.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: As baseball Twitter’s friend Richard Staff put in our replies one time, I very distinctly remember him saying it like this. As it relates to MLB, and the MLBPA, negotiating, he said, “How does this affect me the main character of reality?” And that’s what the ad reminded me of.
ALEX: It is, I mean, perusing their website is, yeah, I mean, it is very slick. It’s, it’s smart. You know, it’s a, it’s very, it’s very direct.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: They clearly understand that baseball is about the fans, ultimately–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –right. In fact, they, they, they talk about the, you know, these negotiations over how to split up the financial pie. And they asked the question of whose pie is it really? And the answer is, it’s our pie, Bobby, it’s the fans pie–
BOBBY: Bogged–
ALEX: –down to the last bite.
BOBBY: –communist meme. Our pie, down to the last slice. Really special stuff made even more special by the fact that Craig Calcaterra, within hours, found out that the law firm that incorporated their LLC is also a law firm that represents like 15 MLB teams. So it’s definitely just a sigh up.
ALEX: Right. It’s, it’s, this is smart, you know, MLB is getting a little more savvy, in their, in their place. You know, they’re realizing they they can’t, they can’t count on the usual channels to kind of sow discord. Or they can’t, they can’t count on the, on the usual channels to, to kind of inflame the the masses. So they’re kind of having to sow discord among the ranks, right?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: By by infiltrating us, the, the fan.
BOBBY: They’re cutting straight from the the typical mainstream national baseball columnist because that person has been, you know, their power has been degraded in society. They’re cutting directly to taking out ads in physical newspapers. Thinking that that’s going to get directly to the people that they need to change hearts and minds. Oh, and also, don’t forget that they have the Associated Press on their side now. So everybody who’s reading a newspaper across the land is going to be on this side of the owners.
ALEX: I don’t know about you, but I have joined their mailing list so that I can keep up to date with any actions.
BOBBY: The National–
ALEX: [7:48]
BOBBY: –Fans Union?
ALEX: The National Fans Union, yeah.
BOBBY: Did you, did you actually put your email in there?
ALEX: Yes, it did.
BOBBY: Oh, this is why I love you. Okay, we’re gonna talk about the latest in collective bargaining between Major League Baseball, and the Major League Baseball Players Association. We’re going to do some voicemails about that topic, and some other topics at the end of the pod. But before we do all of that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I am Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[8:19]
[Music Theme]
BOBBY: I can’t wait until your email address is like harvested because you signed up for the National Fans Union.
ALEX: Yeah, well, I–
BOBBY: The only thing that is ever going to pop up on your phone as calls from NYU to donate and emails from the National Fans Union–
ALEX: I still get one time they called me like three times in one night. Like [8:44]–
BOBBY: They call me–
ALEX: –minding their call.
BOBBY: –they’re calling me right now. Like, I I know the number 212-998.
ALEX: It’s so bad. Yeah, no, it’ll get harvested. But the good thing is that my email has already been harvested to death. You know, like, it’s so overloaded that like at this point, I feel like they’re getting diminishing returns. Like you can’t–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –really package up my email while they mark people because everyone already has my email.
BOBBY: That’s just supply and demand.
ALEX: Exactly. You know, should I create a an email users union, right? Because I have–
BOBBY: Yup.
ALEX: –I have all the power as the person who–
BOBBY: Take back your labor, take back space in your inbox.
ALEX: Yeah. Exactly.
BOBBY: I thought you were gonna say should you create a blockchain for your email address. Like an NFT market for giving out your email address.
ALEX: There you go.
BOBBY: You know, Alex’ email address is actually an NFT now. If you know what his email address is, you’re not allowed to send emails to it unless you’ve purchased it on the blockchain.
ALEX: Right. This is how, this is how NFT’s work. You can NFT an email.
BOBBY: Have you take NFT as screenshots?
ALEX: Yes, it’s a screenshot of the email. Yes, it is 300 pixels by 1200 pixels.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: It degrades in quality if you try to blow it up.
BOBBY: [9:59]
ALEX: [9:59] everyone up.
BOBBY: What’s the font?
ALEX: Georgia?
BOBBY: Yes. I love Georgia. The New York Times is very own Alex Bazeley, Georgia.
ALEX: That’s right, been a great lady.
BOBBY: We’re just talking about fonts. We’re talking about fonts. And we’re not talking about collective bargaining. Should we talk about collective bargaining?
ALEX: What is there to talk about? We could talk about fonts and probably end up in the same place.
BOBBY: I don’t know where to begin. Because for most of this offseason, you and I were talking about one, maybe two sessions of collective bargaining. And now they’ve met every day for the past seven days. We’re sitting here to record this Sunday night, it’s 9pm. Eastern time. They just finished meeting a couple hours ago. And we are kind of getting some trickling information about what those meetings entailed. And I think there are varying levels of interest in the nuggets that are coming out right now. Like we just got an Evan Drellich tweet about how MLB is trying to tie getting rid of compensation picks or compensatory picks, for free agents who leave. They’re trying to tie that, which is something to Union wants. They’re trying to tie that to the steeper competitive balance tax rates. Now, this is all very confusing stuff. It’s, it’s been very confusing to try to follow along, as both sides have, even for us, as both sides have put stuff across the table, and it comes out on like a three hour time delay from five different Twitter accounts. And it’s like slightly, it’s always like slightly different the wording of it. And there’s always depending on what reporter you’re reading it from, there’s like Jessie Rogers, there’s Jeff Passan, usually comes off the top rope with like one or two tweets at the end of the night. Evan Drellich with a tick tock of what’s going on. He’s pretty like baseline, you know, then you got Heyman’s–
ALEX: Nuts and bolts, yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah, he’s, he’s nuts and bolts. He’s just getting the facts out there. Then you got your Heyman who’s like, the league, put this across, everybody’s psyched about it. Everybody’s really happy, they’re all gonna go get dinner tonight. That’s Heyman’s view on the whole situation. And then you have Nightingale who’s like, they will meet tomorrow. And it has no other information at all. So it’s, it’s been a very kind of dizzying experience to follow along with what’s being proposed. I want to start here, Alex, Saturday morning, the MLB Players Association, who was their turn to put together a proposal and send it back. And I thought, they made some pretty big concessions. They went from 100% of your 3 players being arbitration eligible. That’s where they started this whole bargaining process, since the lockout began. They are now all the way back down to 35%, which is only 13% higher than Super Two eligibility is that now or in the previous CBA. They compromised on a little bit further on the draft lottery structure that has been much discussed in the last week or two. Which is basically saying, you know, they wanted if the top 8 teams get the same draft lottery odds. So that it’s less beneficial to tank and have the worst record and get the best pick. And they signaled to the, to the owners, that there was a kind of a meeting in the middle structure to the deal. And they came out of that deal, it was like a 15-minute proposal. Everybody was tweeting about it, saying they just offered this package deal to the owners. And just like an hour or two goes by, and it’s like MLB didn’t react well, to this package offer. And I was excited in that interim period. Because I was like, clearly the two sides, some someone needed to push the ball down the hill and start some momentum. And I thought, though, I was frustrated that it had to be the players to do it. Because it’s always the labor side that does things like that in this, in these negotiations. And seemingly moving a lot, you know, like knocking that third year arbitration eligibility all the way down to 35%. From where they were most recently at 75%. That’s a big move, like that’s a a good dozen, a couple dozen players not being arbitration eligible every year now. And then to immediately just have it stonewalled. And then for the owners next response to be, no, no, no, no, no on all of those things. And we’ll move $1 million on the CBT and keep the same penalties. That’s when I Saturday night, as I was kind of catching up on my Evan Drellich reading, my Evan Drellich tweet reading. That’s when I was like, yeah, man, we’re missing a a good chunk of games in the Major League Baseball regular season. Like would, there’s no, there’s no shot here, we’re done.
ALEX: Yeah, it I mean, we’ve been headed towards this for a while. Certainly the last 72 hours have given no indication that anything’s gonna happen. Before MLBs self-imposed deadline of Monday. Is I think you mentioned we’re recording this on a Sunday. So we, you know, we’re kind of, we have to to look into our crystal balls, a little bit about, about what might happen. But it it does feel like that the the end of every day kind of comes with some sort of admission, that very little progress is made. You know, they talked on some, on some, on some minor points. And there were concessions made in certain areas, but on the big issues, they remain far apart. They’ll be back in the morning to try again. And that’s kind of what it’s, you know, it’s been our little Groundhog Day for the last week. I mean, it seems it’s, this is the understatement of the year, but it seems very obvious that the owners are not actually going to move significantly in any of these areas, right? Like the, like the luxury tax. And I don’t know, when that changes. Like, again, I I I maybe naively assumed that the thought of losing games, which would negatively impact their bottom line would actually be enough of a threat for them, right? Given how much they’ve tried pour over the last couple of years.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And that doesn’t seem to be the case. And honestly, it’s, it’s possible that there is as much internal strife among the owner side, as there is strife between the players and the owners, right? Because there are obviously different interests on the league’s side. Small market owners and and large market owners, very well could be differing–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –on some of these major issues.
BOBBY: Right, I I forgot to mention the players did drop their, their proposal on changing revenue sharing too. Which you just reminded me of the fact that there are differences between small market and large market owners. And we just don’t know about any of that, like we don’t, we don’t hear reporting on any of that stuff, they very effectively leak just that they are aligned, and that they don’t go for the players proposals. That’s the only thing that ever comes out of that side.
ALEX: It is kind of remarkable. Even when the league is not really moving at all, on any of these issues. They still managed to piss off the players with how they do it, you know. Like their their tact, their strategy at the table is often just so callous. That, you know, at one point this weekend, it was reported that the players considered walking out on negotiations, right? And and they may not even return on on Sunday. And and that was, you know, I’m sure they were just feeling feels at the moment, right? But but this is a result of the owners trying to tie some of these past agreed upon issues. Like the universal DH, like the loft draft lottery, tie them to expand the playoffs and a a shortened period of time in which they can institute rule changes, right? This is completely out of nowhere. So like, where do we go? Where do we go from here?
BOBBY: I I, it’s a fascinating question. And, you know, I kind of wish that we had tomorrow to inform us on how we answer that question. Because, you know, I think as people are listening to this on Monday, or maybe you’re catching up with it on Tuesday, or Wednesday, or whatever, and you know, more than we do as we record it. But I think, I wonder what like, I genuinely wonder what Manfred is going to come out and say. Because they, they will discuss they will bargain. They want negotiate tomorrow. And then they will have to basically say, we’re pushing the season back here, but we’re gonna miss at least the first week of games. Or this deadline was fraudulent all along. And I doubt that they’re going to say that because that’ll make them look a little bit weak and a little bit like they were posturing the entire time. Which is a bad look, especially given that, I think that we will remember this as the week that the owners lost a lot of people who were still hanging on to the idea that this was both sides fault. They completely lost a lot of media people. And I think it was because of death by 1000 cuts, basically, you had the Braves Liberty Media financial file, filings. Which came out, showed that they had a $104 million profit margin in 2021. A year after losing $53 million in 2020, allegedly. And these are all like, obviously have to take these with a grain of salt. They are reported to the SEC, but they are very general. So we don’t know quite how they’re accounting for expenses and revenue and what counts for all of those things. But to know that they made it back doubled their, “biblical losses” from 2020. Just goes to show that this is all for nothing like we’re we’re we’re playing on a slanted playing field and the players moved. Like they blinked on Saturday and the owners were like, great, we’re not going to do anything at all. And I think that a lot of people, I think a lot of people realize that this [20:30]. I think a lot of people are fed up with the fact that MLB didn’t propose anything for 43 days. They know that the Braves are making over $100 million in profit before depreciation. They, we know that the players are aligned and saying we want to play. This is not that radical of what we’re asking for anymore. And to be honest, I feel like there was a, there was a, a real valley and peak in the millionaires versus billionaires discourse in the past week. Because we saw players coming out and directly saying, this is not millionaires versus billionaires. We saw Walker Buehler’s tweets, which he eventually deleted, which is dumb. Because he should have kept them up because they were right. But we saw him tweeting things like this is not millionaires versus billionaires. This is workers versus owners. We’re actually doing the thing that you guys like. We’re actually going out there and playing this. And not that I think that every single fan like had a complete 180 enlightenment moment in this past week about how capitalism has wrapped its tentacles around baseball. But I do, I don’t know, maybe it’s just wishful thinking. But I felt a little bit of a downshift. Like even if, even if you read Ken Rosenthal’s column from Monday, and then you read Ken Rosenthal’s column from Saturday, he still threw in a couple nuggets, a couple bones to the league on Monday. And the one that he wrote yesterday, he was, he was literally using league in front of everything, to make sure to not mince words about whose fault all of this was.
ALEX: Right. He, I I paraphrasing him, I believe he said, The league gave the players a collective middle finger. Which is, which is not wrong, but maybe not the kind of thing we have been conditioned to see from someone like Ken Rosenthal, of his ilk. I think you’re right about the tone shift a little bit. Because it has been so, so blatant, so brazen, the way in which owners have acted with kind of increasing stonewalling. And almost almost a sense of apathy towards the negotiations, right? When it seems clear that like, the players are actually invested, and, and emotional out there. So I’m, like, actually care about getting a job done, right? They’ve been able to kind of telegraph that messaging to the public. And the owners really haven’t, you know, you don’t hear from them. Which I think [22:59], any other time in the year. I think that that that serves them well, right? The owners keep their place kind of up in their castle on the hill. And they don’t have to, have to talk about how they care about baseball or not, it’s it’s fine. But like this–
BOBBY: We should, we should bargain that into the next CBA. Once a month, every owner has to come out and give a State of the Union on why they actually like baseball.
ALEX: I mean, wouldn’t it be something to hear owners try and talk about, like, how their team is actually doing?
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: You know–
BOBBY: Or little public embarrassment for the owners.
ALEX: Can we start like Cole’s calling Bob Castellini and asking him about, like, Sonny Gray’s projected FIP of next year or something like that–
BOBBY: I don’t know what to care–
ALEX: –you know.
BOBBY: –the market is down. I got bigger–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –fish to fry here, Alex.
ALEX: Yeah, it just, it just seems like I think people all of a sudden see that the owners are not serious, right? And the fact they are effectively unable to come out and say that they are, I think tells you that much Rob Manfred is proving to be a pretty useless mouthpiece, at least in the last week or two, right? I think fans have rightfully called him on a lot of his bullshit. So it feels like they’re losing tricks.
BOBBY: They lost Buster Olney, at least for a part of this week. I don’t know if you saw this, but I I’ll just read it off. So I don’t, so I don’t add my own slant to what Buster was saying. He’s really a lot of clubs, staffers and agents strongly believe a draft lottery will have only a slight impact on the MLB’s tanking problem. So this is the draft lottery that I was talking about where the, the union originally proposed that the 8 worst teams would have equal likelihood in the lottery or you know, slightly various, slightly variant likelihood of getting the top pick. Versus just it going in straight order of how bad you were in the previous season. Buster tweeted, “What it really needed they believe is a more direct mechanism to compel teams to spend on payroll. Rather than pocketing the money and accept the losing.” I say Buster, welcome aboard, I don’t know why you needed to talk to a lot of clubs, staffers and agents to realize that. But that’s what everybody has been saying all along that, of course teams could, teams in the bottom third, especially, but really teams in the bottom half or two thirds of payroll. Of course, they could be spending much closer to the luxury tax. That’s why they have revenue sharing. And that’s why we set the tax of what we set the tax at. And then Buster in reply to someone else. So just under the current system tanking makes sense, because if you slash payroll, and aim to be awful than at the very least, you make a lot of money. Which is more important to some of these teams than competing. Now–
ALEX: Yup! That’s it.
BOBBY: –at the risk of drawing too much from a Buster Olney reply tweet. I do think that when, when like a Buster Olney type who very often finds himself carrying water for owners just by nature, of his view on the industry, having been so deeply embedded in it for so long. And who he talks to and who he gets his very obviously gets his tips from. When he finds himself logicing him his way into saying something like that. Which is, it was just a repeated union talking point and a repeated Tipping Pitches talking point. I think the owners like it’s reasonable to assume that the owners have themselves a PR problem. Like there are 1000s of people canceling MLB TV subscriptions right now. It’s a, it’s a total shitstorm.
ALEX: Yeah, I mean, I, and it’s tough because the the owners have actually received some of these concessions from players, right? Without really needing to make any movement on their own. Which is, which is tough, right? Because you’ve already, that already kind of shifts the playing field a little bit. It, you know, the players give up a a tiny bit of their leverage in that and you know, the owners can very well kind of, you know, effectively let the, let the players negotiate against themselves, right? And, and hope that their proposals are are whittled down, due to sheer attrition over the next few weeks, right? And then, and then they can actually come to the table and start and start talking and say, okay, we’ll, we’ll be serious about this now. Now that, now that we’ve made you guys, like cut your proposals in half. So like, it’s not like nothing that the owners are doing is working, but like, you know, in their favor. But it does seem like they’re, they’re losing in the court of public opinion. Maybe maybe more than they were, say a month ago, certainly more than they were three months ago.
BOBBY: Yeah, I just don’t think they care about that. And I think that that’s why we’re dealing with a kind of really explosive, labor, sports, sports labor situation here. Because I think that the MLB owners are uniquely positioned in that they’re not as powerful relative to their workforce, as the NFL owners are. And they are more powerful relative to their workforce than the NBA owners are, relative to the starpower of their workforce. I’ll say you could probably debate that last point. But they think that they can’t be had at the table. And they’re so far removed from the court of public opinion, which we just spent the last 15 to 20 minutes talking about how they’re now losing in the court of public opinion. I think it’d be years before they ever even realize that. Which is why I think that this negotiation has not gone the way a lot of people in media the way that you and I hoped that it might have. Because I don’t think that they actually have anyone holding their feet to the fire. None of them were in the room in 1994-1995, when this went wrong when this went haywire, and they lost a whole season, or not a whole season, but when they lost second half of a season and playoffs postseason. None of them remember a time when baseball had to actually be a thing that made them money so that they could pay their bills. And so they’re just so insulated from any kind of fan pressure, any kind of respect for the players, and the the other people on the other side of the table. And even though I’m not in the room, it’s so easy to tell that you put a $1 million increase to your CBT across the table on the same day that the players make objectively, the largest moves that they’ve made of this whole process. Like that, that just tells me, there’s no respect, there’s no desire to keep this going. It’s like a complete and total contempt for anyone else in the room. Anyone else in the industry, anyone else who’s involved in baseball or has a vested interest in baseball. The owners just have a complete total contempt for them.
ALEX: Yeah, they really are are uninterested in the greater health and well being of the game, right? Because you could argue that having opening day is like a relatively important thing for the sport of baseball to have. Especially when you’re worried about waning popularity, and worried about losing gate receipts. Like, you’d think that would, that self imposed threat would light a fire under the raft asses? Or maybe you won’t that or maybe you wouldn’t? I’m like, maybe you’re naive to think that, right? Like–
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah, it’s, it’s, we’re kind of at throw your hands up hours here with what with what’s going on. Because there’s still so much left to be done. And there’s not enough time to do it. At the deadline that they said, you know, it’s kind of like when you have a paper due at midnight, it’s like 1115, you still have like, 10 pages to write? Do you just do you stop entirely? And do you kind of reset and try to ask your teacher for an extension? Or do you work right up to 11:59? Like, it’s that same sort of brain melting, catch 22 that we’re trying to describe and absorb as fans, as you and I are fans too. I wonder, do you think that we’re going to be coming together on Wednesday or Thursday of this week to record another supplementary pod? Because Rob Manfred has come out and said, No, we’re not bargaining anymore, we’re gonna miss the whole season, or Rob Manfred has come out and said, we just struck a deal. Or do you think that we’re just gonna keep getting drip, drip, drip, drip, drip, and we’ll just wait until next Monday to record?
ALEX: If if there, if there is no movement tomorrow, I don’t really see why there would be any significant movement in like a day or two later, right? Like if they, if they have already conceded that they are going to be missing games and accepted that reality, then–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –then it’s kind of like why did you, you know, why would you miss the deadline otherwise, right? You know, if you were just going to make a deal a couple days later. So something tells me, we might be back here next week, kind of throwing our hands up in similar fashion.
BOBBY: Well, I hope that this is at least an entertaining product for people who are listening to us throw our hands up via audio form. Uhm, we’re gonna take a quick break. And when we come back, we’ll answer some more questions about the events of the last week.
[32:42]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Okay, Alex, ready to answer some questions from the lovely friends of the pod?
ALEX: I am ready. And they usually ask ones that are, that are more fun for me to answer than, than yours at the beginning of the podcast would usually just kind of throw me into a bit of an existential tailspin.
BOBBY: I like to, you know, knock you off your feet a little bit right as we’re starting the pod just to kind of get a dazed and confused Alex for the first 30 minutes. So that you can bring it all the way home by the end once the sort of concussive symptoms have worn off.
ALEX: Right, I’d love to listen to myself at the beginning of the podcast versus at the end of the podcast.
BOBBY: Uhm, this first question comes from Devin. Devin asks, “Would be curious to hear your thoughts on whether it even makes sense for the PA to keep negotiating at this point, given the situation?” You want to take a stab at this? Does it make, does it make sense? Is it required? I mean, it does make sense to keep negotiating, it doesn’t make sense to negotiate against yourself. Like I thought the way that you described that, like 15 minutes ago, Alex, was was right in that, I think that the owners think that things are going well. Like I think that they would rehire Rob Manfred if they had to. You know, like if this was a normal situation, and he was your lawyer, I think that the next case that the owners had, that they would rehire him. Because the PA has already dropped a lot of the, “radical things” that you said that you are never going to accept. And now if the owner start to move, now, they’re only moving from a point that the PA was halfway at, versus their full ask. So if you’re the PA, does it make sense from a game theory perspective? No. But this is why collective bargaining agreements are so hard to negotiate. And when, and truly be satisfied about when you’re a worker under capitalism, is because the ownership side, the management side, has the ability to just sit there and wait and say, no, we don’t want to give you that. No, we don’t want to give you that. No, we don’t want to give you that. And what are you going to say? Your your only power in this situation is withhold your labor. So the players can say no, we’re not going to propose anything more. And this lockout can go to a stalemate. And we can send this to the courts to end this. But then we don’t get baseball for potentially like two years. And these guys are baseball players. They want to play baseball.
ALEX: Yeah, I yeah, I would wonder how much the players would actually really want to miss. Like, I can’t imagine them, I mean, I can’t imagine them wanting to miss any games. But I can’t imagine them wanting to see this bleed over into 2023 or beyond. Like that would I mean, you want to talk about catastrophic for the sport. That would, that would be brutal. And I think that the players ultimately recognize that, right? Recognize the the the best interests of the sport, so to speak, and are kind of negotiating on that principle. But you know, it might be nice for them to throw the middle finger back every once in a while.
BOBBY: Well, to me, it’s so frustrating that the worker side always has to think about what it will look like, to the public, you know? Like that the players have to think about what this will mean for the long term health of the game. Because they are the ones associated with the game. Which is the entire reason period as to why they should be getting whatever they want, when it comes to baseball. And yet, they’re not because the structure of all industry is ridiculous. That’s one thing. The other thing is, this is why it’s so frustrating that we even have a lockout to begin with. Because it didn’t need to be this way. Like we could have just been playing under the previous CBA. If ultimately where we’re gonna end up landing is somewhere near the previous CBA, then it wasn’t that urgent of an issue for the owners to lock the players out and set that tone, and then wait 43 days to even respond and give a proposal. Like we could have just been chugging along as slowly as we are right now. And it wouldn’t have felt so doomsday, it wouldn’t have been so frustrating because everybody could have been preparing for a season like normal. And the owners are were afraid of doing that, because they were afraid that the players would call a strike vote. But you’re only afraid of the players calling a strike vote. If you’re doing actions that frustrate them to the point that they’re going to call a strike vote like they did in 1994. If you have the ability to stop that from happening, but you can’t trust yourself, like you can’t trust yourself in collective bargaining negotiations, to not piss the other side off enough to call a strike midway through a season that they are playing and want to be playing.
ALEX: I respect that they’re self-aware–
BOBBY: I guess so.
ALEX: –[37:39]
BOBBY: Like that, that’s what’s so frustrating to me about this question and, and whether or not the PA should be continuing to get proposals back and forth. Because yeah, they’re by nature, how how these things work. You eventually bargain against what you want. Like, that that’s how it works. It sucks, but that’s what happens most of the time.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: All right, let’s go to voicemail.
VOICEMAIL 1: Hey, Alex and Bobby. this is Izzy, longtime listener. Just want to say at first like you guys really have the right podcast for the moment mixing ba–baseball and labor. Totally the right moment. Maybe there should be more lockouts. Anyway, or call about two things. The first is blitz senses there have been for you guys about solidary around players. Like they’re all in a union, they’re good negotiating their bargaining. Do you think players have taken something away from this and applying it to their feelings of other unions? Or politics generally? I don’t know. I think I’ve seen a few people on social media, but it’s not like I’m seeing Max Scherzer stating his support for striking workers or organizing workers at Starbucks. So I don’t know. Love your thoughts on that. The second piece is, how do you feel about baseball players on politics generally? Given the demographics of especially the white players of being good old southern boys. They don’t really see like, do I really want to know what they’re thinking? I’m not sure. Like you get your Trevor Bauer and I’ve had enough of him so do you really want more? Anyway, love your guys thoughts on this love your show and can’t wait to listen more? Okay. Bye!
ALEX: Great question. Izzy, thank you for calling in. I think baseball players politics generally suck. That’s kind of, that’s kind of a summation of my my thoughts on them. But I do think there’s been a shift not even just over the course of the lockout, but over the course of the last two years. That has radicalized players at least on their own front, right? And we have maybe have not seen it extended too often to other industries to, to solidarity outside of the baseball world. But it’s not completely non -existent. There are players who are showing solidarity with, you know, food service workers and that sort of thing at at a baseball stadium. Frankly, I think that the last couple years have probably done much more to radicalize minor leaguers than major leaguers. Because they’re, the the conditions that they live in. And what’s at stake for them is much more dire, is much closer in line with how the average American is treated by their boss, or or at least, I think most people can maybe see themselves in their shoes a little bit more. But I don’t I, I don’t think we’re gonna see baseball players like canvassing for Bernie in 2020. You know, like, I’m not sure we’re there yet.
BOBBY: I don’t, I don’t know how much the second question matters. Like, I I agree that we don’t want to hear players thoughts on electoral politics, but I don’t most of the time, don’t think electoral politics or even change anything. Like most days, if you asked me, I wouldn’t be like a baseball player saying that he supports this candidate in the House race is going to change society.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I’ll say like, when you’re in a, when you’re in a union together, it doesn’t really matter what your fellow union mates politics are, you’re supposed to stand together no matter what. Like you’re united by the fact that you are all workers together no matter what. And I think that in some respects, I think that the the baseball union is like a pretty good example of that. I don’t know how many unions I can think of where there are like that many disparate world experiences that leads you into that specific of a union, you know. Like people from all over the entire world coming together in a union. And in a, in a weird one at that, which doesn’t have any real correlation to any other part of society, I think is one of the reasons why like, a lot of labor people give a shit about the baseball. MLB Players Association and the the history of it and how it came to be, and how they took back a lot of power from an incredibly powerful group of owners. Now, to to the first question, that is, he asks, I think that it sucks that baseball players, and the Players Association doesn’t do more when it comes to the labor movement. Because to be frank, they have a ton of money, and a huge public platform. And if it were normalized, to talk about their involvement as labor in American society, more than just every six years, when we’re talking about a collective bargaining negotiation, I think that that would not only like, improve the likelihood that people treated them that way, as opposed to just treating them as spoiled, rich millionaires who play a kids game, every time we talk about these things. But I think that it would just make it more likely that people would know this dynamic when they see it in the real world. And I don’t think that as a union, they wield their collective power in that way enough. I think that, like you said, they’re the same guys who, in a one off way, go out of their way to give a shit about striking workers when it affects baseball or not. And it’s it’s Sean Doolittle and it’s Collin McHugh and it’s Jerry Blevins. And it’s all of those same guys that we have talked about on this show ad nauseum. And I think that, given how much the union has done for players in the long run, I think that they could probably ask players to, like, show more support for other other unions, who are having public fights within the labor movement. But what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? Not every union cares about the people who aren’t as well off as them as much as [44:10]–
ALEX: Right, yeah, I mean, yeah, this is, this is where you kind of these two competing ideas bump up against each other, right? Which is that baseball players are in their industry, they are the labor. And so in that sense, they are the organizing of themselves and and negotiating and bargaining is a, is a political act. And also, many of them do make millions of dollars and by and large, are probably somewhat disconnected from with what’s going on in the rest of the country, right? So like–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: [44:47]
BOBBY: Do I wish that this is Screen Actors Guild would come out and support retail workers? Yeah. Do I wish that, you know, the Directors Guild would support Starbucks union? Like I–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –wish a lot of things about a lot of unions.
ALEX: Yeah. I think there’s, I think there’s limits to you know, with any any rich person’s politics. Like they’re, you know, they’ll let you down eventually it’s okay. That’s fine.
BOBBY: Okay, uh, since you brought up minor leaguers we got, we got a question about minor leaguers.
VOICEMAIL 2: Hello, this is newly happy first time caller, recent first time listener. I’d sort of dove into a little bit back when you had to CBA ABCs. And I saw a recommendation. You’ve been nothing but great. I had a question about unionizing the minors when it comes to actually practically getting it done. I know that MLB has the big exemption, monopoly, which is being challenged. And I know that’s being challenged by minor league teams. But I don’t know if that actually interferes at all with minor league players for assembling a and organizing as a union. I’m just confused, I don’t know exactly how that works. I’m interested to find out. Thank you so much. Bye!
BOBBY: Yeah, so this is a tough question. So actually full, so full transparency. Alex and I are planning a podcast in the near to medium future. Talking about what it would look like for minor leaguers to unionize. And this will be one of the questions, one of the questions being how much can MLB do to push back? They’ve already done so much. They’ve already crushed so many young man’s hopes and dreams about making it comfortably in the minor leagues and then eventually on to Major League Baseball. The antitrust exemption does not prevent minor leaguers from unionizing. I I would guess that it gives them, it gives MLB and MLB clubs a little bit more leeway in what they can do to collectively prevent minor leaguers from forming that union, you know, in terms of their union busting strategies. But there’s nothing about the ruling and the antitrust exemption that full stop prevents minor leaguers from forming a union. Though I would guess that, on the flip side of that conversation, if the antitrust exemption did get taken away, I could see a world where like that creates the momentum for minor leaguers to then be like MLB is reeling. MLB is on the ropes. Let’s try to form this union now. While, while this tidal wave of public opinion, is kind of against these colluding, Major League Baseball teams.
ALEX: Well and it matters with regard to minor league pay–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –as well, right? Because, because they have this antitrust exemption that 30 teams can come together and, and legally collude against minor leaguers, right? And say, we’re gonna set the salary the wages for you guys. We’ve all agreed on this, you don’t have a say in it, you, you know, we’re gonna do whatever we can to make sure exempt from minimum wage laws, etc. And if that antitrust exemption is gone, there are far more legal pathways to actually making a claim that the owners are are paying the minor leaguers illegally. They’re–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –they’re fix, that they’re fixing wages in a way that is just criminal. So that feels like the, the the big part for me, right? And it would I, you know, as you said, maybe not directly impacted the push for a union. But it would certainly open up ways for the minor leaguers to actually address some of these issues that so far they’re unable to do outside of a union.
BOBBY: Yeah, I think that you would have, if the antitrust exemption was gone tomorrow, I think that you would have far more, a much quicker push for a class action lawsuits defending minor league players than you would for like a real true unionization push. But when you have a class action lawsuit, and everybody is involved in the same legal process, it does create pathways for you to meet the proper people that could eventually help you organize into a union. Like one of the biggest challenges for the minor leaguers is guys don’t spend a lot of time in the same place in the minor leagues. They get shuffled around a lot. There’s a lot of pressure to conform. You have a lot of like barriers to entry to the conversation of what it takes to unionize. You’re not always in the same place with all of the people who would be unionized alongside you. And it just becomes a huge logistical challenge. And if if the antitrust exemption went away tomorrow, like I said, and every single minor leaguers on suddenly getting a bunch of emails from whoever organizes a class action lawsuit against Major League Baseball. Hey, why don’t we just all Reply All and say you guys want to form a union? It obviously would not go that easily, but that’s the kind of thing that the interest exemption gives cover to MLB clubs to do. To just kind of suppress a lot of that activity. Okay, should we go to the next question?
ALEX: Yeah.
VOICEMAIL 3: Hi, guys. This is Brian from New Jersey. I had a quick question about some sort of minor league player compensation that I hadn’t really heard discussed anywhere. And it has to do with with licensing. I know that you know, for the major leaguers in MLBPA, handles licensing. And wondering if there is a equivalent for minor league players. I know that a couple of years ago, there was some stories about how MLB: The Show was able to use the likenesses of minor league players in the game without having to compensate them. And I’m kind of wondering about merchants x now because I’ve noticed that my local affiliate the the Somerset Patriots are the Yankees, they’re selling shirts, sherseys for some, you know, notable prospects, and I’m wondering, are they getting paid for it? So I’ve done a little bit of a searching and it couldn’t find any information on my own, so I was hoping maybe you might be able to sell me in. Thanks so much. Keep up the good work.
BOBBY: Brian, I’m glad you asked. What a fantastic question that illustrates the total and immoral hypocrisy of Major League Baseball owners. So it’s a good question. Because the Players Association for major leaguers negotiates their likeness deals with places like MLB: The Show, or out of the park baseball, any of these places where you see a player’s name, image, jersey, all of that used or sold, or disseminated, or all of those other legal terms. For minor leaguers, they are forced to forfeit the rights to their name, image and likeness when they execute their uniform player contract. So the UPC is the contract that every minor leaguer has to sign that says the club owns your rights for seven years, they only have to pay you $1,500 a month for your first level. Like all of these things that specify all of the heinous ways that clubs treat minor leaguers. And there’s a subsection of that contract that says pictures of player. And in that it details here, I’ll read you the first sentence very quickly. “Player agrees beginning with the day that this minor, this minor league uniform player contract is executed that photographs, whether still or action and motion pictures may be taken. And any form of telecasts made of the player individually or with others, at such time replaces as club may designate and agrees that all rights they’re in shall be long to club that and that they may be used, reproduced or otherwise disseminated or published by club directly or indirectly, for any purpose in any manner, at any time. And you are also not allowed to use your own name image and likeness in association with the club to make money.” So you can’t without the permission of the club. You can’t be in a local commercial, as a member of the minor league team, or as a prospect and make money off of that. Does that make sense? You give up all of your rights.
ALEX: Yes. [53:38]–
BOBBY: In short, you give–
ALEX: [53:39]
BOBBY: –every single right that you should have. That even NCAA players app now.
ALEX: This obviously led to the demise of EA Sports, NCAA football games few years ago, because of the the nasty world of college sports. But this sounds about right. I would have been shocked if my only players actually got compensated not for for this, absolutely not.
BOBBY: Every time if you buy a minor league jersey with a player’s name. They’re not making that money.
ALEX: Yeah. And there’s nothing, there’s you can’t really do anything about that, right? Like you’re not, you can’t negotiate your way out of that sort of thing.
BOBBY: No, because they’re never going to give that right to one guy here and there. Because then that will give them a legal precedent to take that out of a contract. Well, hey, you’re giving it to that guy. Why don’t you give it to me? And you’ll have more and more minor leaguers, pushing back on signing the uniform player contract or that part of the Union uniform player contract more agents will be able to say, well, Vlad Guerrero Jr. has that taken out of his uniform player contract. The reason that hits a uniform player contract that everybody has to sign at higher low prospect doesn’t matter. And then the way that they skirt around that and the reason that some players who have much more leverage are still okay with signing that is they just give them huge signing bonuses. It’s nice, just throw cash at the problem because they have the cash. They just don’t want to evenly distribute it, so that they can save a little more of it.
ALEX: If you’re Michael Jordan, you can negotiate out of the uniform player contract. That’s what he did in 1994.
BOBBY: Wait. So we did a whole episode about that? About Michael Jordan not signing a uniform player contract.
ALEX: Yeah, I mean, I don’t know all of the details on it. But I suppose that’s all the more reason to–
BOBBY: I didn’t mean [55:29]–
ALEX: [55:29]
BOBBY: –we start that whole episode right now. You’re allowed to read it about, before we do that. I think that’d be fun.
ALEX: I agree. We’re, you know, we’re we’re kind of teasing a lot of ideas here on the podcast as well. A lot of talks about episodes coming down the pipeline–
BOBBY: We’re calling Dibs. We’re calling Dibs on the, nobody–
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: –else do that. The best thing about doing a niche labor baseball podcast is that nobody steals your ideas. Just nobody has put in the time to build up an audience about of people who care about stuff like this. Like our wonderful listeners. Thank you, Brian for calling and asking about that. And hearing that terrible, awful, depressing answer. Just time for maybe two-ish more. Two more questions?
VOICEMAIL 4: Hi, boys. Jack, I was curious how you guys feel about how Max Scherzer slowly becoming a labor leader? And if anything, an iconic labor leader? Yes, basically, I just want to hear your thoughts on that. Thanks, boys. Stay pos.
BOBBY: Max Scherzer labor leader, Alex. We also, we also got a question from Michael on Twitter. Does Mad Max scare the owners? What do you make of Matt–Max Scherzer. the new Jimmy Hoffa?
ALEX: About as intimidating albeit in different ways.
BOBBY: I hope he doesn’t go out like Jimmy. Got three more years to play for the Mets, right?
ALEX: Yes. That’s, that’s the priority.
BOBBY: Steve Cohen brings them to a house in North Jersey or whatever. I don’t remember actually where they brought Jimmy Hoffa.
ALEX: I think you could maybe make a case to, to kind of, you know, New York area, Mob members that Max Scherzer is, in fact vital to the New York Mets.
BOBBY: Oh, yes!
ALEX: And so if they could at least wait three years, and then do the hit like that, you know. There’s kind of, there’s some larger interests at stake here.
BOBBY: Jesus Christ. Okay. Can we answer the question? We’re getting too far off the rails. Please keep Max Scherzer [57:35] at all times. He seems great.
ALEX: I don’t know. I know very little about Scherzer. And how he’s engaged with this process. He’s one of the less active players on Twitter, although he has come out with a few banger tweets in the last few weeks, That seem to just kind of represent the broader sentiment among players right now. It’s hard to say how, how militant or hardline he is, though, honestly. In part because like, I mean, you saw the car he drove up in, right? Like, can he really effectively negotiate driving a car that expensive driving? Driving a Porsche? Like–
BOBBY: Okay, here it is. Here’s the part of the podcast where we talk about the Associated Press. Specifying Max Scherzer was driving a Porsche, and not mentioning any other cars driven to the complex in Arizona. Very rare for us to get an example of media bias, that clean cut. Usually, you have to try a little harder. Like this is the one that they would put across the table at an Adam Penenberg’s journalism 101, Alex. That reference was for you and you alone.
ALEX: Shattered Glass, be still my heart.
BOBBY: Wow. If anyone listening has seen Shattered Glass, please write in tippingpitchespod@gmail.com. So we could talk about it.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: No spoilers, though. Only for the people who have seen it or are gonna go the extra mile to write into our email. We got stories.
ALEX: Oh, I hope, I hope Max is, is a good guy to have in the room. He’s certainly intimidating, right? He may be more of the muscle, than the, than the brains behind the operation, but who knows?
BOBBY: Scherzer is just an interesting leader of the Players Association. If we’re to bring this actually back to the question at hand here not about his model of Porsche and the Associated Press. Associated Presses, various interests in that model and price point and what it means for society. Because he’s clearly like, baseball has been good to him. You know, like he’s signed the megadeal. He has the mega-agent, the mega deal paid off, he just signed the second megadeal. The very rare second megadeal that we’ve been talking about how owners never give that out anymore. And he’s earned every single penny, he he was the best bargain imaginable for the Nationals for what he did for that franchise. And even delivering in the postseason and helping them win the World Series. Like every single penny was so so so worth it. Because he never talks about it, or because he doesn’t is not that vocal. And because he doesn’t tweet about it that often. I wonder what he would say, if you asked him like, when did you want to become so involved in the union? Like at what point did you realize this is something that you could wield your power within this game for the betterment of younger players. Because it it very clearly is like, I want to help the next guy have the same path that I had. And I’m seeing that window close, faster and faster and faster year over year. And I think that that sucks. Now Scherzer avoided arbitration when he was with the Tigers. They settled for 3.75, 6.75 and then 15.25. That was after he had already won the Cy Young with the tighter–with the Tigers. But even still, like knowing that you’re winning the Cy Young while you’re not even a free agent yet. I think for a lot of guys, that has to be pretty radicalizing. Now to the second question from from Twitter, to the owner sphere, Max Scherzer. If they don’t, I’ll have what they’re having. Because I would certainly fear him in a small confined room, making him angry. But who knows, maybe it’s just something that he accesses on the mound. But I think that that a lot of people have gotten a lot of good overworked Twitter jokes off about how Mad Max Scherzer should just throttle them until they give the Players Association what they want.
ALEX: Again, I’m not trying to make a deal with him.
BOBBY: Steve Cohen just did it. Just give him what he wants. And then we can all move on and everyone will be happy.
ALEX: There you go.
BOBBY: Steve, get in the room, bro. Get in the room. Make a deal.
ALEX: Yeah, stop letting Dick Mon–Monfort take the mic.
BOBBY: Clearly. Clearly, there’s one owner who doesn’t want to make a deal. It’s the guy who traded every star he’s ever had. And then forgot to trade Trevor Story and is still not going to give him a deal. So the guy who paid money to give away Nolan Arenado, that’s not the guy who’s gonna make the deal. Steve Cohen, on the other hand, the guy who lost you know, $50 million on a GameStop short. He’s willing to just let the margins be what they are.
ALEX: Right. I mean, that’s part of deal making.
BOBBY: Exactly. You win some you lose some.
ALEX: Yeah. Do you have any more questions for us?
BOBBY: There are a few more questions. But we’re we’re running out of time here to get into the weeds on some of these questions. So I’ll I’ll end with a non-labor question.
ALEX: Non-Labor. Wow. On Tipping Pitches? All right, I need to–
BOBBY: I missed the lockout.
ALEX: –switch off that part of my brain.
BOBBY: Switch, switch on the himbo baseball fan part of your brain. This comes from Turn a Pair Baseball Podcast. This is Turn a Pair Chris. He says, “If I gave you an RV for seven days, what college or pro teams are you visiting?” Great question, Chris. A question that requires Alex to think about United States geography. We don’t get enough of those.
ALEX: Yeah, Kastrina here firing up Google Maps just so I can, I can know where, where Des Moines, Iowa is in in relation to other major league teams. It’s a struggle over here. Do you have it? Do you have an answer? Do you, while I, while I do my research.
BOBBY: So I have been known to throw a a touch of shade at college baseball in the past. I don’t remember if I’ve ever done that on the podcast. But I have certainly done that. When you have been watching college baseball in our shared living space. Or when Michael Bauman has been texting me at midnight being like turn this college baseball game on. To the point where he just doesn’t send those messages and he knows not to send those messages anymore. Uhm, but in the last couple of years, I’ve tried to expand my baseball palette so that I am not completely at the whim of Major League Baseball for obvious reasons for that for the last 86 minutes of this podcast, we we know why I’ve done that? I still think given carte blanche to just take off for a week. Drive, see something that is completely a different experience. I actually think that I would want to try to take a run through the South East, the SEC Softball slate because softball is such a different both TV but I think in person experience too. Just a different speed, slightly different incentive structure for how to play the game. So there’s like more slap hitting more bunting. I think that the pitchers are much bigger storylines in softball than in baseball now as they’re sort of been like the denigration of the starting pitcher, which is not really the case in softball. And I think that I would take a run through the SCC, as much as I could get done in seven days. Because many of the best college softball teams are in the SCC, and it just seems like a riot to be down there. For one of those games.
ALEX: Yeah, that would be a blast. And there are certainly some powerhouse college baseball teams that you can hit as well.
BOBBY: Yeah. Give me, give me a Florida doubleheader.
ALEX: Yeah, exactly. Go see what Vandy is up to. I think they may end up doing a trip down the East Coast.
BOBBY: Coastal elite Alex strikes again, just refuses to go to the heartland.
ALEX: Right, which is yeah, it’s not it’s not super surprising.
BOBBY: He’s given a dream scenario, the RV and everything. Seven days, they still won’t leave the Coast.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Yep. No, I mean, I, there’s just, I think a great array of baseball that you can find. I would love to go to the Cape Cod League.
BOBBY: Yeah. We were like–
ALEX: And–
BOBBY: –eight feet away from that last summer. I didn’t go but–
ALEX: Yes, yes, we were. Yeah. Uh-hmm. And not to mention there are plenty of good baseball programs in and around the area. You know, as long as I’m getting out of New York City itself, in which there’s literally no baseball to watch right now.
BOBBY: Wow. Well, New York City burnout on the pod?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Are you gonna read a think piece for the Atlantic?
ALEX: Why I’m leaving New York? Because it doesn’t have enough college baseball teams.
BOBBY: Why I’m leaving New York in an RV to see the Cape Cod League?
ALEX: Right to see the Durham Bulls.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah.
ALEX: Yeah, I want to check out like North Carolina baseball.
BOBBY: Yeah, we should go see the Durham Bulls this year. That’d be fun.
ALEX: That ,that would be fun.
BOBBY: You you and I have talked about doing like a little mini minor league tour in the summer. Potentially the summer of 2022, but maybe the summer of 2023. But all of that to say this question does not completely come out of the blue. It’s something that we’ve considered doing. Because there are so many little pockets of baseball that we’ve just had no, no experience with.
ALEX: Yeah, this belief that if this was a real scenario, I would spend countless hours in a fucking spreadsheet.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Just trying to figure out–
BOBBY: This is, this is–
ALEX: –what is–
BOBBY: –fucking bag, dude, this is your real house.
ALEX: What is, what is like, statistically speaking, what is the best like most efficient route you can take, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Only seven days, that’s not a lot of time. You’re not hitting more than a few cities in there. And even then, at best, you can maybe pack in two games a day. If you’re lucky, draw it if [1:07:56]–
BOBBY: [1:07:56] you’re not good, yo’re not gonna do that on an empty day.
ALEX: Right, that’s exactly. Well, you know, it’ll make you appreciate the the Major League Baseball that you do see, yeah. If there’s any that exists.
BOBBY: If big IF.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: We might be doing several seven day trips to see different types of baseball this year. Feel a lot of free time and free and capital that’s freed up with with no New York Metropolitan baseball.
ALEX: It is a little bit freeing, you know.
BOBBY: Don’t get crazy.
ALEX: Yeah, I know. I actually, I thought about it for a second. And and the th prospect of not having baseball like washed over me. And I felt instant regret.
BOBBY: This is the part of the podcast where I say, opening day is literally supposed to fall on my birthday. And if it doesn’t happen on time, it will ruin my birthday. 26, guess what get off your parents health care and you don’t even have baseball.
ALEX: Oh my gosh, we’re devolved.
BOBBY: Anything else? You want to move tax date that day? Anything else? You want to research on student loans on March 31st?
ALEX: Don’t give them any ideas, Jesus Christ. You know, I’m I’m on board with with these road trips. And if you the listener, have ideas, maybe you have done this sort of trip–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –before?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Send them into us. We’d love to hear about it. We’re we’re we’re always looking for ideas.
BOBBY: I’ll open your Spreadsheet, tippingpitchespod@gmail.com.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I listened to your voicemail, max cap three minutes, as long as you can leave a voicemail don’t call [1:09:31] 785-4225881. I will read your DM tipping_pitches on Twitter. We may be back later this week. If there is significant news about the collective bargaining agreement if there is not, we will be back. Tried and true, next Monday. Thank you for listening.
[1:09:52]
[Music]
[1:10:02]
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya.
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
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