Bobby and Alex banter about the Rays doing Rays things with a generational talent, then break down the new plan to provide minor leaguers with housing and why it’s a bittersweet victory. Then, a close reading of Rob Manfred’s comments about the state of CBA negotiations.
Links:
Jeff Passan’s roundup of Rob Manfred’s comments
Songs featured in this episode:
Slaughter Beach, Dog — “Gold and Green” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and and and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about. It’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, our old friends, the Tampa Bay Rays, formerly known as the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. Were in the news this past week. Did you see this? Do you see why?
ALEX: It’s possible, I’m not, I’m not sure the direction you’re going with this. So ahh I’ll I’ll just toss it back to you.
BOBBY: The direction that I’m going with with this is that uhm they saw the Ozzie Albies contract, they saw Ronald–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –Acuña Jr. contract. And they said we have a player that’s a generational talent. We’d like to underpay him. And they said maybe we’ll offer Wander Franco 10 years $150 million. Alex, is that fair compensation for Wander Franco?
ALEX: I would say, year, so 15 million a year.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: That is probably fair compensation if you are, say the the CEO of a real estate company looking to ahh buy renovate and flip homes and evict dozens of people, I think that’d be fair compensate compensation for that, yes. If you’re a generational talent, Baseball talent, it might be a tick below the market value, I’d say.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: What is what is what is Bryce Harper making? Upwards of 30 million a year? What is Mike Trout making?
BOBBY: I think that Harper makes exactly 30. And I think the Trout makes like almost 40.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That’s what after his extension kicked in. Ahh no, 15 million a year ah Wade Davis from the Rockies contract is not enough for the best 21 year old Baseball player maybe ever. Well–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –it’s hard to say that because of Juan Soto but one of the best 21-year old baseball players ever should not sign out, should not buy out his maybe best 10 years over the next 10 years for $15 million per year. That is not–
ALEX: I mean.
BOBBY: –not a good idea.
ALEX: The the Rays, the Rays said, “Look, we’re not spending money on anything else, right now. We might as well just see if see if ahh see, if we can screw out one of our players”, right? You got to start them early, right? Like set like set the playing field. Say, say, Franco, this is what you should be expecting over the next six to seven years. Just kind of, you know, steel yourself for what’s to come.
BOBBY: Just think about it, though, Alex, the Atlanta Braves just won a World Series doing this. So this is just actually the market inefficiency that the Rays are trying to recreate.
ALEX: The Rays aren’t even original in their exploitative ideas, you know. It’s like their–
BOBBY: No they are–
ALEX: –pulling from the A’s–
BOBBY: -give them some credit–
ALEX: –like pulling from the Braves.
BOBBY: Come on, give them some credit. They’ve they’ve put their own little secret sauce on it.
ALEX: That’s true.
BOBBY: No, you know, you might say maybe this is the starting point. But this is a bad starting point, this is a bad start. If you wanted to defend the Rays, you could say well, it’s a it’s a negotiation. Why would they oversell themselves to begin with? I don’t know. Because you respect the employee, you res–respect the player and want to show him that you mean business and not drastically ahh undersell what his actual value is. So that in four years or five years when it comes to free agency, he has no interest in actually coming back to the club. I don’t know, just a just a thought about–
ALEX: So–
BOBBY: –employer-employee relationships.
ALEX: So does Franco come back and say I want 10 years 500 million?
BOBBY: That’s what–
ALEX: So they–
BOBBY: –they should say.
ALEX: So they can meet somewhere in the middle.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: If that’s if this is what the Rays doing?
BOBBY: Well–
ALEX: There’s no reason Franco shouldn’t also come back to the table with.
BOBBY: If we’re meeting in the middle, you stay, I want 10 years $600 million. Because after we’ve adjusted for the way that the market will shift over 10 years, that is a lot closer to what he would actually be worth. You bought Bryce Harper just won the NL MVP. Congrats to Bryce Harper. didn’t do it for a playoff team, though couldn’t get his team to the playoffs. What kind of valuable player doesn’t get his team to the playoffs, Alex?
ALEX: It’s true.
BOBBY: Uhm, he’s making $30 million. Yet so far through the first three years of that contract, he has drastically over performed that dollar amount based on the cost of a win above replacement on the free market. So even he who signed three years ago is already underpaid.
ALEX: I like how the the conversation resets every couple years. This is in regards to Bryce Harper, right? It’s kind of my North Star of is Bryce Harper overrated? Or is he underrated?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: And it’s like a pendulum that just swings back and forth, right? When he signed the contract, I think there were a lot of critics, a lot of skeptics who said, “Bryce Harper really deserves a $330 million contract?” I don’t know about that. And now we’re at the point where we’re like, uh, he deserved that. And then some, we may get to your five years six of this contract, and–
BOBBY: Then it’ll swing back.
ALEX: –and it’ll swing back. They’ll say, look, the contracts underwater–
BOBBY: And then he’ll have–
ALEX: Ha–Harper is turning 31.
BOBBY: –one good year.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: He’ll have one good year in the last three years of that deal. And people be like, well, maybe it was worth it. He did win an MVP in the third year [5:36]–
ALEX: Yeah, exactly.
BOBBY: –never ending.
ALEX: That’s just my North Star.
BOBBY: Exactly. Uhh, okay. Well we got a bit of news in the past week. Uhm with regards to the CBA negotiations. We also got some more details about the Minor League housing situation. We’re going to detail all of that. But before we do. I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I’m Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[5:55]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Alex, want to spend five more minutes talking about the Rays? I got more thoughts about the Wander Franco thing? What’s the point of all of this salary suppression if you don’t actually, eventually shell out for the guy, the best guy that you develop through all of this seller suppression? And all of these team control, this team control. years of team control hoarding.
ALEX: I mean, the the earnest answer to that is you hope you never have to shell out, right? You can just keep the cycle moving.
BOBBY: All right, I can’t do this. I shouldn’t have done it. I shouldn’t have even said anything more. Let’s move on to something that is good? Question mark. Good news? Question mark. We talked a few weeks ago, or a month ago, whenever this actually came out that when it was reported that MLB is planning to provide housing for its Minor League Baseball players who cannot afford it themselves. Because MLB chooses not to pay them enough money to afford their housing. They are now solving for one problem by drastically underpaying these players by providing them housing. Ahh and then this past week, we got the details of that plan. Alex uhm, do a run through the deats.
ALEX: I’d love to run through the details. Because they are as you said, maybe potentially good? Did MLB–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –do something right?
BOBBY: I don’t know.
ALEX: I don’t know. It makes me–
BOBBY: It’s yet to see how they actually skirt around some of these things, but you are the numbers guy, you are the details guy. So let’s–
ALEX: What they say. Uhm, so the the gist of it is that Minor Leaguers uhh from here on out will be, will be housed in apartments or rental homes, with teams managing the leases and the utility bills, not the players, which was a huge point of concern among a lot of Minor Leaguers who obviously bounced around from city to city and can be stuck with multiple leases at a time. So right off the bat, we’re starting in a good place that lifts a huge burden on a lot of players. Some of the de–details include fully furnished apartments, right? With whatever basic accommodations are needed, including beds, couches, chairs, etc. Actual these are like not studio houses, but actual living spaces with a bedroom and a bathroom and a kitchen and a shared living space with with max, two players per bedroom. Which again, doesn’t that doesn’t sound like a step up. But when you see some of the pictures of where players were living before with like, nine players on on blow up mattresses on the floor. It’s It’s remarkable that that this is a victory that took so long to secure. As I mentioned, clubs are are responsible for utilities including electricity and Wi-Fi and water. And this applies to basically any Minor Leaguer not on a Major League contract. Any player who’s not making more than $20,000 per month, which is I would say fairly reasonable. Because if you’re making $20,000 a month that’s I mean, I think you’re making more than I am probably. Uhm–
BOBBY: Really? I was under the impression that you were pulling in at least 20k I mean, the 15k a month from this podcast alone, that’s your share–
ALEX: Oh oh oh I will I wasn’t counting that, yeah, that’s–
BOBBY: Oh, cuz that’s going to the LLC, right?
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: That’s not actually, you can’t pin that to Alex Bazeley IRS, Internal Revenue–
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: –Service please.
ALEX: That’s that’s either go into the LLC or like offshore accounts. Don’t be don’t don’t search my name in the Panama Papers.
BOBBY: That that’s being funneled back through my uhm ar–my Art Charity.
ALEX: Right, exactly. Yeah, I’m buying so many NFT’s with that.
BOBBY: You haven’t seen the art yet? Because no, no NFT’s, you haven’t seen the art yet? Because it’s in uhm a tax haven.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: [10:00] cart.
ALEX: It exists.
BOBBY: 30 miles off the coast of the Atlantic Ocean.
ALEX: It it exists, just like my girlfriend who goes to the other school.
BOBBY: Right, exactly.
ALEX: That you’ve never met.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: Anyway, that seems to be it, right? Not not much in the way of fine print that, you know, excludes players who are still young enough to to be on their parents health care plan. Or excluding players based on the level that they’re at. It seems to be relatively cut and dried. And again, it remains to be seen kind of how this works in practice, or, or how long this is even in place for. But like I, you know, again, you under no circumstances, do you have to hand it to MLB? But do you maybe have to hand it to, to MLB. I feel like this is me saying Rob Manred’s name in the mirror three times, like is he gonna appear behind me if I if I give them kudos.
BOBBY: He’s gonna appear on this podcast in about 15 minutes. But–
ALEX: It’s true.
BOBBY: –the the big thing, the big takeaway from this is that, this is a big win that was one only because of pressure. And the second that you release the pressure, you open up the opportunity for MLB. To feel like they don’t need to actually enforce this in the way that they’ve outlined it. Yes, the way that they outlined it is good. And yes, it covers 90%, around 90%, estimated by MLB of current Minor Leaguers. That’s according to a tweet that I saw from Chelsea Jane’s. Uhm but making no mistakes about it, this is not guaranteed in perpetuity. Just because they do something now does not mean that they’re going to wake up and do it tomorrow or next year or five years from now, or 10 years from now. And it doesn’t mean that they’re not going to just start slashing all of the Minor League teams to the point where they only have to do this in five cities. There are plenty of ways around policies like this. And I don’t, I don’t want to imply that that’s gonna happen. But it it’s the type of thing that is not guaranteed until it is literally a guaranteed and a legally binding document. And in this case, that legally binding document should be a CBA between the Minor League players Union and Major League Baseball. Uhm but for now, this is a this is a very big win. And I was pleasantly surprised at what this housing policy looks like. It basically covers everybody who needs to be covered by it. And now, there are like some sort of optically unsavory things about the way that this will play out in practice. It’s like you’re living in the company’s building, living with other company employees never getting away from your life within the company. And then he kind of like trickled down issues in the workplace, you’ll never get away from just because of the nature of the fact that the place that you work for owns your living space.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And you’re living with other people that you’re working with. But I do think that Baseball is different than like podcast producing or working for a nonprofit or working at Starbucks–
ALEX: Little, little different.
BOBBY: It’s slightly different. And these people, these players have frequently would like to live with their teammates. I don’t wanna speak for everybody. But having talked to guys who came up in the Minors like part of the part of the thing they loved about it is the spirit of the camaraderie and being around these players who are all trying to grind and make it so there are positives and negatives to it. And it’s a nuanced thing. Uhm but it is undoubtedly better than it was two months ago, and it is definitely more accessible than it was two months ago. Now, there are people who can afford to give it a shot a little longer, write it out a little longer. And that’s all we wanted. That’s all that’s all we want from Minor League Baseball, it’s like the the thing that we love the most about it is like the connection with the community. And the fact that these players are in a sort of romantic way. Just trying to give it their best ride and trying to make it to the show. And that’s that that–
ALEX: In money money, not an object. I mean, that’s my favorite part, right? You know, is that they’re, they’re playing without the the big bucks behind them. They’re doing it for the love of the game.
BOBBY: I still think that I don’t need to like reserve space in my heart to praise MLB. Like space on this podcast really praise MLB because like any problem that is at the Minor League level is there because they chose to either make it that way actively, or let it fester to the point that it became a big problem. So like, you don’t get praised for solving a bunch of problems that you allowed to be created. Do you know what I mean?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And until Minor Leaguers like, you know, all make a living wage and all are able to afford to focus on Baseball 365 days a year. And all have a say in the conditions with which they work under then I will still not give really give any kudos to MLB when it comes to any of these issues.
ALEX: Yeah, these are conditions that have existed for years and the only reason they were addressed in pretty rapid fashion, right? We saw this really develop over the course of just a few months this–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –past year. Solely due to public pressure being put on the league by Minor Leaguers and National Media members, right? But again, these issues didn’t just crop up, they have existed, but it was beneficial to the league to keep these conditions in place until their hand was forced, like it was.
BOBBY: And need I remind people that this comes one year after they slashed the Minor Leagues by 42 teams. So that’s, that’s 42 teams that they do not need to provide this service for. So in the long run, I think that their attitude, their general philosophy towards Minor League Baseball is actually probably going to save them money. Even if needing to provide this housing next year, starting next year, is going to slightly dip into whatever ridiculous amount of revenue and money that they make every year. I think in the long run, the notion that they’re treating Minor Leaguers better and paying them a livable wage or whatever, is just going to give them the political capital to continue to slash the Minor Leagues and continue to take teams away from Minor League towns. Because they’re like, well, it just the overhead on this just became so much higher. And it’s a crude way to think about it. But that’s the way that teams think about their employees in their team. That’s the way that large organizations think about their employees and their Minor League teams, it’s straight up overhead, to get the best players to the Major League level, and to then capitalize on those players to make the most profit. So this is, this is a business decision. Like whether it’s a business decision that they made, because they felt pressure, and they felt like things were gonna start to collapse and spiral around them, or whether they really feel like in the long run, they can make this economically profitable for them, it doesn’t really matter. It’s a business decision, because all of the decisions that teams make our business decisions.
ALEX: Yeah, and this one happened to benefit the class of players that needed help the most. And so I know that they are grateful for this. And, and we’re grateful that they have those accommodations. Because, as you said, anything that makes these conditions even a little bit better, that allows just one or two players to eke a little bit more out of their career is, is really all we’re looking for.
BOBBY: Okay, let’s talk about the uhm, Major League Collective Bargaining Agreement and the updates that we got in the past week from there. Uhm not a lot of details about the bargaining itself. But we did get some interesting quotes from one Rob Manfred, who spoke to the media after the quarterly Owners meetings. And obviously, the Owners meetings in this quarter were heavily focused on the CBA. And what’s going to happen and whether the each Owner is going to have to put his John Hancock on some some lockout paperwork on December 1st or not, December 2nd or not. Uhm and so I wanted to, Alex, play a little game with you. And that game is “Let’s interview Rob Manfred on the podcast”. Now, Rob is not on the other line. But Rob’s quotes are here in front of us in a Jeff Passan article, which we have linked to in the description. And I am going to read the some of these quotes and you are going to read some of these quotes and we are going to do a you might call it a close read, a dramatic read. Maybe a table read of our–
ALEX: [18:24] have it all.
BOBBY: –about Rob Manfred. Uhm, are you ready to do this?
ALEX: I think so. This is unchartered waters we’re in right now.
BOBBY: Alex, the first quote that appears in this article from Jeff Passan, on espn.com is Rob Manfred saying, “I don’t think 94 works out too great for anybody”. I think–
ALEX: Wow–
BOBBY: –we need to–
ALEX: –starting off super strong.
BOBBY: He’s throwing, first pitch of the game 99 mile an hour fastball middle mill, check me out. Check me out. “I think we need to look at other sports, the pattern has become to control the timing of the labor dispute and try to minimize the prospect of actual disruption of the season. That’s what it’s about. It’s avoiding doing damage to the season”. Okay, Alex, you’re up. Time to respond to Rob.
ALEX: You know, Rob, I have to agree with you. No one would like to see the season impacted by a labor dispute. Out of curiosity, I’m curious whose bottom line is impacted most by by an in season labor dispute? It seems to me there might be a bit of a power imbalance in that because it I think that there are probably 30 people who would be not too pleased with an unseasoned labor dispute because it may affect the the millions that they are raking in. So you’re right, no one wants it. There’s just a class of people who especially do not want it.
BOBBY: Uhm can I go back to the I don’t think 94 worked out too great for anybody.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Rob Manfred is just bank on the back, that people didn’t pay attention to the actual outcome of the 94 strike which most players, most people who follow this from, from a player, sympathetic perspective would tell you was the largest win for the players Union in a very long time. Uhm and since that wins since that strike that allowed them to get those wins those concessions from the Owner side. Uhm it’s been sort of a slow erosion of player power ahh since 94, so interesting that Rob chose to bring up 94 so quickly in his comments. So we move on to the next quote?
ALEX: Yeah, I just real quick, I appreciate that he was really playing the middle ground here thinking not only of the Owner in his castle up on the hill, but also of the lowly fan, right? They don’t want to they don’t want an end season lockout. They don’t want an end season labor dispute either, you know? So this is he’s he’s looking out for for all of us here.
BOBBY: Well, as we know–
ALEX: With to that, we must be grateful.
BOBBY: Rob considers himself to be about as big of a fan of Baseball as anyone–
ALEX: Right [21:02]–
BOBBY: –considers himself to be that I don’t think anybody else, really.
ALEX: I mean, I think that I think he would go so far as to tattoo it on his forehead, right? How much he enjoys the sport.
BOBBY: Okay, next quote.
ALEX: “We understand, I understand that time is becoming an issue. That’s a challenge. We’ve had challenges with respect to making labor agreements before. And we got a pretty good track record of overcoming those challenges. I can tell you from the club’s perspective, we’re co, we’re committed to continuing to offer proposals and suggestions in an effort to get to an agreement before December 1st.”
BOBBY: Okay, thank you, Rob. Appreciate that. Uhm that’s nice of you to say that you are committed to continuing to offer proposals and suggestions in an effort to get to an agreement before December 1st. Though, I will just take that with a grain of salt, since you are legally required to say that you are trying to get to an agreement before the deadline of the agreement. If not, you are what is called negotiating in bad faith, which is actually against the actual law. Uhm–
ALEX: Right, if if I recall correctly, I think that’s something that Mr. Manfred and his cohort of owners gotten got in trouble for, as of late, were accused of.
BOBBY: If you recall correctly, there’s still an active lawsuit about that exact thing facing MLB and its owners. Okay, uhm let’s talk about time becoming an issue, Rob. Time is an issue, I agree with this. That issue has been exacerbated by the fact that owners have not really seemed. But really, neither side has seemed interested in solving this before that deadline. And if time was becoming such an issue, and you had this wonderful proposal to replace salary arbitration that was gonna make everybody happy. Why did you wait until three weeks before the deadline to drop it on everybody? You know, we we talked about this last week, the proposal from Major League Baseball side to replace salary arbitration with a an algorithmic system that would determine how many how much money uhm players in years three through six of their team control would be paid based on how much water they have accumulated on thin grass, multiplied by a, a set constant number, depending on what year of that team control you’re in. So that is a radical change to the system of how the youngest and most ex–most exploited players in the MLB current economic landscape would be paid. And you know that that radical change would need to be discussed for months, at minimum for the Players Association to agree to it, because they would have to talk to every player, maybe not, the Executive Committee themselves would not have to talk to every single player, but every player would have to be briefed on it. And then would have to go through their own internal process of deciding whether it would be best for them and whether they agreed on it, and then they would have to vote for it in order to ratify it. So you know that this is not like a three week thing. So if time is an issue, why did you wait until now to propose that crazy idea? Which is a bullshit idea. But even if you thought it wasn’t a posted idea, why did you wait? Time is an issue, okay, we’ve learned that time is an issue.
ALEX: I can also appreciate how quickly he switched to tell him the club’s perspective.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Mere seconds ago, I think he was was feet he was speaking on behalf of, of all of us, you know, you me himself. But but he’s got the inside track with the the Executives with the teams. So I you know, he’s pulling back the curtain a little bit, and I think we’re all better for it.
BOBBY: This next one is one of my favorites. Alex, are you ready?
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Switching putting my Rob hat back on. The focus on 2020, I think has been excessive. I’ve been in charge of labor in this industry since 1998. I’ve been in charge of labor in this industry since 1998. In charge of labor, okay. Every single time I have found a way we have found a way to make an agreement and keep the game on the field. You know, one sort of mid term negotiation in the middle of a crisis of pandemic, crisis of pandemic. I just don’t put that much weight on it. Like I said, we’ve had a very, very difficult situations in the past, we found our way through them, we’ve got great people, I think we’re going to find our way through this one too. It goes on to talk about personalities and how there are multiple personalities on both sides. And we don’t affect that we don’t let that affect the negotiations and may have a level of professionalism, etc, etc. Alex, one sort of mid term negotiation in the middle of a crisis of a pandemic, he doesn’t put that much weight on it. Could that be because of the aforementioned lawsuit against him for how he handled that negotiation in the middle of a pandemic? He doesn’t put that much weight on the thing that he’s being sued over for a billion dollars?
ALEX: Right, Is it maybe that it was widely considered to be at the Owners fumbling the bag on this one, and really just setting themselves up for failure? There might be some truth to that there might, right? It’s all allegedly, personally, actually, my favorite line in here is the is the very last one. Uhm in in the quote about the personalities, right?
BOBBY: Oh yeah [26:04]–
ALEX: Which is, which is, which is, which is where he says uhm–
BOBBY: Sorry, I’m passing my Rob [26:05]–
ALEX: Ahh, you know, he mentioned not letting personalities get in the way of this this negotiation, what’s happened in the past, he regards as you said, as an essential, essential part of professionalism when it comes to being a labor negotiator. And he says, I know that applies across the board with respect to the people involved in the process, pause. At least from our side.
BOBBY: It’s so good, it’s so good. I love that so much.
ALEX: Just fired a shot across the bow there.
BOBBY: Yeah, at least from our side.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I know that we’re handling this with professionalism and respect.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: Meanwhile, the guy called himself the Czar of labor three lines earlier.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: He says I’ve been in charge of labor this industry since 1998. Now I know that when you read a quote, you impart your own tone onto it, you impart your own bias onto it, that’s completely reasonable. But like when you’re the chief negotiator, for a $20 billion industry, that is exempt from antitrust laws. That is a very important thing that millions of people across this country have an emotional connection to, and you are coming out after speaking to the Owners who write your check. And you are speaking to the media for Jeff Passan and his millions of followers and have intelligent has hundreds of thousands of followers to circulate to. You have to choose your words carefully, you just do. You can’t say I’m in charge of labor. The whole point of labor is that neither side is in charge. That’s what we’re doing here, we’re negotiating, there’s no one in charge. And I realized that this seems like stupid stuff to quibble over. But it’s like, the guy can’t help himself. His subconscious speaks for him, because he he he just doesn’t have like that emotional, we’ve talked about this before. He doesn’t have that like emotional, charismatic aura to him that some commissioners have been able to veil the truth of the office, the truth of the purpose of the office in the past. He doesn’t have that, he just says the truth about how Owners and the MLB side feel about this stuff.
ALEX: He makes our job remarkably easy.
BOBBY: Unbelievable–
ALEX: [28:20] that.
BOBBY: Yes, he does. He may have created our job.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Like this, this podcast might not exist. If not for the Owners being like, you know, we should just throw that Rob guy into mystery. It’s a really good job as being in charge of labor since 1998.
ALEX: Right, they’ve only interacted with him over email and finally they see him get up to give his first press conference and they’re like, oh, shit, what did we do?
BOBBY: Okay, uhm, the the last few quotes. There’s a lot of gems in here too. But they are less about the current status of direct negotiations and more about the wider discussion about what Owners think about the state of the game. So ahh I believe that it is your turn to wear Rob’s hat even though I failed to read the most important line of the last one. Maybe we should pitch this to listeners as our audition to be uhm the next Commissioner of Baseball, which one of us sounds more convincing reading Rob man’s–Manfred’s quotes.
ALEX: Yeah, you know, hopefully neither of us. I mean, I know personally, I I’m not sure I want to want to win the contest of who sounds more like Rob Manred. I’m happy to just see that competition and–
BOBBY: No bro, you have–
ALEX: [29:33]
BOBBY: –no, you take it, bro. No, it’s all you. Well, how are you going to be Commissioner of Baseball and the GM of the Mets?
ALEX: Right, well, that’s really my my question.
BOBBY: You you have like a whole like a year long thing where like a non-compete, you can’t quit and then you go do–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –another job within Baseball. So it doesn’t even make sense for you. So–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –and me it’s a it’s a, ahh no. It’s a conflict of interest–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –because I’m too big of a Mets fan. Because I know you and because you’re the GM of the Mets, it’s a conflict of interest. Just got to do some someone else got to do it.
ALEX: Good. I’m glad we got that settled live on the air,
BOBBY: Maybe Theo Epstein.
ALEX: Oh Jesus, ahh Manfred goes on to say, I think the best thing for the club’s in the fans is to do everything humanly possible to make an agreement. Not leaving this one or two the robots interesting. I left a pretty good job with a pretty good future to try to get this industry to the point where we can make deals without labor disputes. Big Deal Guy. I don’t think there’s anybody who understands any better than I do that from the perspective of the fans. Oh, we’re back to the fans perspective.
BOBBY: All right.
ALEX: They don’t–
BOBBY: [30:39]
ALEX: –they don’t labor dispute. And that’s why our number one priority is to make a deal. Bobby, your response?
BOBBY: Wait, sorry. I was trying to look at what he was doing before he was Commissioner of Baseball or before sorry.
ALEX: I did the exact same thing.
BOBBY: Before he was uhm, before he was the chief labor negotiator. Uhm here on on wikipedia.org. after law school, Rob Manfred clerked for Judge Joseph El Tauro of the US District Court for the District of Massachusetts, from 1983 to 1984. He then joined a law firm, Morgan Lewis and Bockius where he worked, he worked on Labor and Employment Law. That’s exciting stuff, that does sound like a good job. Morgan Lewis that’s headquartered in Philadelphia. It’s probably in cheesesteaks left and Right, you know, that he brotherly love,
ALEX: interestingly, on unsaid Law Firms page and this is kind of an interesting twist that really has nothing to do with our conversation about Rob Manfred. But apparently they owned the mlb.com domain name. And in 2000–
BOBBY: Morgan, Lewis and Bockius.
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: mlb.com, d+o you think Rob cheap labor negotiated that one away from them and his exit package?
ALEX: Right, exactly. I’m taking this with me, it’s possible.
BOBBY: The guy can’t get away from MLB. Uhh it says here he went to Rome Free Academy, which is a high school located in Rome, New York, at the former site of Griffiths Air Force Base. So you went to an Air Force Academy for high school?
ALEX: We’re just reading Wikipedia now. Rome Free Academy, commonly abbreviated.
BOBBY: Rome–
ALEX: RFA.
BOBBY: –Rome Free, r-o-m-e, not r-o-a-m. You don’t just get to roam free around. Okay, back to the point, back to the point. Uhm, this is so funny. Thi–thi–this one is really funny to me, because he’s like talking about stuff that he did that 19 early 1990s.
ALEX: Yeah, I, what’s my favorite part about this is him saying I left a pretty good job with a pretty good future.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Implying that the job he’s in right now is–
BOBBY: Is nothing they could–
ALEX: –not incredibly lucrative.
BOBBY: Right, like he’s a public servant.
ALEX: –and not fun, right.
BOBBY: He’s just–
ALEX: Yeah, he’s like–
BOBBY: –he’s a pup–
ALEX: I’m just–
BOBBY: –spender in Brooklyn right now.
ALEX: Right, I’m doing the Lord’s work. I’m not doing it for the paycheck. I mean, I had to go to celebritynetworth123.com, which is where I get all my celebrity net worth ahh data–
BOBBY: Damn Rob in the Forbes page.
ALEX: I know, right?
BOBBY: Broke boy.
ALEX: Tough beat.
BOBBY: Can you try to imagine Rob Manfred listening to this segment. It’s just, wow.
ALEX: $20 million, now again, this is according to Celebrity Net Worth 123. But it is backed up with it is backed up from networthpost.org and celebritynetworth.com. I’m curious which celebrity net worth came first, but that’s a topic for another, another episode.
BOBBY: Maybe we can find that on Wikipedia somewhere.
ALEX: Uh-hmm, yeah.
BOBBY: Paragraph by paragraph. Do you think–
ALEX: [33:45]
BOBBY: Do you think that Rob Manfred makes more than $20,000 a month? Do you think that he would qualify for the MLB housing if he was slashing it in Triple-A?
ALEX: Ahh it’s, yeah, it’s possible. I mean, it’s a banana, how much does it cost? $10? Anyway, I you know, shout out to Rob for for grinding it and really putting it in putting in the work for for all of us.
BOBBY: Can I read you one more quote, Alex, will be pertinent to you and pertinent to something that we’ve discussed on the podcast a lot in the last year? Uhm it is not specifically about labor disputes. It is about a dispute of sorts, with Rob Manfred beloved fans on one side and Rob Manfred beloved owners. On another side. Ahh Jeff passan writes, “The Oakland Athletics continued to look into Las Vegas for potential relocation while pursuing a simultaneous path towards staying in Oakland with a new stadium. Of this Rob Manfred says if the industry could speak, I think the industry is satisfied with the effort that’s being put forth in both places. If the industry could speak, Alex–
ALEX: Industry could speak.
BOBBY: –what the fuck kind of like stock market, Wall Street weirdo, Lawyer speak is that if the industry could speak? The industry is the fans and the players–
ALEX: As in theory.
BOBBY: –but but like it is, though. Like the the people–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –main stakeholders in the industry of Baseball are fans and players. The–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –Owners are just the capital. Like, you wouldn’t say that Private Finance is the main is the Industry of Journalism, but they own most of Journalism, but they’re not the industry of it. So the industry here that we’re talking about is fans and players, and Coaches and Managers or whatever. Do fans and players think that the Industry is doing a good job here with the A’s. The industry is satisfied with the effort? Are you, Alex, Mr. Alex industry Bazeley, are you satisfied with what’s going on in Oakland right now?
ALEX: You know, I just really appreciate that everyone’s waking up every day and trying their hardest. Uhm and I know that really the best candidate is going to win. And so yeah, I I appreciate that the billionaires are looking to do whatever is best for for not only for the fans and for the team, but most importantly for their their wallets, which are probably running a little thin as of late.
BOBBY: Right, now that they have to provide–
ALEX: Housing for Minor–
BOBBY: –housing [36:19]–
ALEX: –Leaguers, yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah, [36:21]–
ALEX: I mean–
BOBBY: –that’s one forest that John Fisher cannot afford to cut down all of the trees in it.
ALEX: Yes. The the “industry”, that Manfred is talking about is is not an industry at all, right? Is the interests that he’s representing that of the the Owners, the investment class, that the investment class that is responsible for the financing of the and so of course, they’re, they’re the size about this–
BOBBY: The checkbooks of the Owners is the industry that he’s referring to?
ALEX: Yeah, exactly. And so, of course, they are happy to see two cities being pitted against each other, because what will come out is the best possible deal for that, right? Of course, they want to see competition in that because one to one negotiation with his with the city means that city has a little more leverage than if you are trying to get to locales to to vie for a ma–a sports franchises existence there. So I mean, I suppose, in a sense, he’s not wrong. Like what he’s saying, in his head. Makes sense and is true from his point of view.
BOBBY: This is a consistent theme with Rob though.
ALEX: Yeah, I know.
BOBBY: He’s not wrong, but what he’s saying is just not in the interest of anybody except the people who he meets in dark smoke filled rooms with. Which–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –is usually not the people you’re supposed to come out and openly cape for.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: But he does, he does, he does. Because like it, it’s so out of touch. It’s just such an out of touch thing to say, to see A’s fans. And I don’t mean to cosplayers, the A’s fan on the show because I know that you are the A’s fan, but I don’t want to mine your pain anymore. But to A’s fans who are about to lose Matt Olson, Matt Chapman, Chris Bassitt, Frankie Montas, like any number of these people that they actually trade. While also simultaneously being told that they it’s a 50/50 shot as to whether they even stay in the city that they’re in. It sucks, man, it’s very out of touch, it’s very out of touch things to say.
ALEX: Yeah, again uhm. I’m opening up my services as a fan to the market.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: I think the industry is very happy to see what I have put out there in my 25 years as an A’s fan. And you know, I’m looking forward to my next chapter as–
BOBBY: RIght.
ALEX: –a Baseball fan.
BOBBY: Uh-huh.
ALEX: You know.
BOBBY: Uh-huh, correct. I think that’s about does it for this week’s episode of Tipping Pitches, Alex. Uhm Thanksgiving coming up, this Thursday. You got plans? What do you, what are you going to cook up? I know that you are quite the chef. The listeners to the podcast might not know that you’re quite the chef, but what dishes do we got on the menu?
ALEX: Aside from Rob Manfred?
BOBBY: No, that’s that’s that meal [39:24]–
ALEX: [39:24]–
BOBBY: –podcast–
ALEX: –for anyone, for any Lawyers from MLB listening. Uhm you know, I really don’t know. I only heard–
BOBBY: That tires, that tires, that tires–
ALEX: Yes, exactly. Allegedly, allegedly. I think we’re gonna keep it, keep it low key, keep it simple this year.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: I’ve got some some turkey breasts, which I mean, we could have a whole conversation about why on earth turkey was the was the meat that we chose. Just just–
BOBBY: It’s fine, it’s fine.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: It’s the base.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: The protein. Uhm–
ALEX: Right, right. It’s a it’s a blank canvas.
BOBBY: Quite literally, especially the white meat. Uhm are you a big Thanksgiving guy? Are you like, do like this holiday, more than the average holiday? How many wins above replacement would you give Thanksgiving?
ALEX: Shhh. No. I mean, as far as holidays go, Thanksgiving is like on the verge of being cut. If I’m being quite obvious.
BOBBY: Wow.
ALEX: I I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t need it. Exactly.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: It feels kind of like it’s one of those things where it’s more tied to tradition than it is anything you actually do. Like I’ve, as you mentioned, I like to cook a lot anyway. So I’d probably be cooking dinner that night, where I were there a holiday or not.
BOBBY: Amazing point. I love Thanksgiving. Uhm–
ALEX: I just get dictated what the what the meal is, you know.
BOBBY: You have to try a new recipe. He said to work on making last year’s better. Uhm what’s–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –your favorite Thanksgiving dish? Last year, longtime listeners will remember that last year, we built a Thanksgiving plate from stuff that you can find in a ballpark. We’re not–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –going to rip that idea off and just repeat it. But–
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: –what’s your favorite–
ALEX: We thought about it? But we wont.
BOBBY: –what’s your favorite regular Thanksgiving dish?
ALEX: Hmm, you know, stuffing? Again, like I’m basic. Like I like things that have a lot of fat and salt them.
BOBBY: Salt fat acid heat. Uhm my favorite Thanksgiving dish ahh objectively they’re better Thanksgiving dishes than this. But the thing that I look forward to in Thanksgiving most is creamed spinach.
ALEX: Hmm.
BOBBY: Nothing wrong with spinach, which is maybe the best green up there, up there with chard. I like chard.
ALEX: Interesting. Oh my goodness.
BOBBY: What, [41:34]–
ALEX: [41:34]–
BOBBY: –lot of like?
ALEX: I I don’t know, like, like brussels sprouts. Like, I’ll make brussels sprouts.
BOBBY: Oh I mean, like leafy green.
ALEX: Okay, okay.
BOBBY: But brussels sprouts are kind of leafy. It’s a whole different type of green. That’s like brussel sprouts, broccoli. Like those brussels sprouts are better than spinach. But–
ALEX: Yeah, okay.
BOBBY: –leafy green. Spinach, heavy cream, delicious, salt, garlic. What else do you need?
ALEX: Heavy cream, yeah.
BOBBY: All the ingredients right there. Uhm well, I hope that our listeners have a wonderful Thanksgiving. They’re doing anything special for and if not, then have a wonderful Thursday. Uhh one more thing if you’re listening this late in the show, of course, Google bonus heads up for stuff like this. We have designed two new t shirts, Alex. And maybe even some stickers, I don’t know–
ALEX: Yeah, TBD.
BOBBY: However, we have designed two new t shirts. We would like them to be up on our website. So keep your eyes peeled for them. If you’re the type of person who would like to buy a t shirt. Uhm if you order anytime in November before December, it will arrive current below be guaranteed to arrive before Christmas. So please keep your eyes peeled for that. We will be handing out promo codes on next week’s episode. So long as we have the y shirts up and live. And I gotta say, the designs are phenomenal. I’m very excited about them. I’m going to be buying both of these designs with my own hard earned cash.
ALEX: Yes, I’m really excited for them as well. I hope you all will enjoy them as much as we do. And yeah, keep your eyes peeled for that before we head out of here. Bobby Can I can I leave you with a with a quote?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: You’re familiar with Carlos Correa?
BOBBY: I am familiar with Carlos Correa, yeah.
ALEX: Okay. Uhh you’re familiar with Derek Jeter?
BOBBY: I am familiar with Derek Jeter, yeah.
ALEX: Okay both both shortstops.
BOBBY: He’s the guy who didn’t get Jeremy Giambi out at home, right?
ALEX: Good, that. Yes, that’s correct.
BOBBY: Gotcha.
ALEX: This quote is from Carlos Correa. On a podcast he was on earlier this week. Derek Jeter–
BOBBY: Oh great, he’s doing the podcast circle? Carlos–
ALEX: I know–
BOBBY: –come on lets go–
ALEX: –right, yeah.
BOBBY: -come on down.
ALEX: Derek Jeter, how many gold gloves did he win? Five, I think he won. Derek Jeter didn’t deserve any.
BOBBY: Oh. Wow, I didn’t realize he was so categorical about it. I saw that he had thrown a little shade at Derek Jeter’s defense, but geesh.
ALEX: Just just, nope, don’t. Didn’t deserve a single one.
BOBBY: Carlos Correa here making the UCR case.
ALEX: Yeah, right.
BOBBY: Carlos Correa said DRS.
ALEX: Crossed the Marlins off the list of his potential landing spots.
BOBBY: Were they still on your list? They didn’t have a red line through them yet. Do you also want while we’re at it? Do you also want to cross off the Rays? The pirates?
ALEX: Right, yeah.
BOBBY: Anyone else you want to cross off?
ALEX: I think the A’s as well–
BOBBY: The Astros.
ALEX: –my eyes rolling.
BOBBY: Okay, well, thanks for being a hard truth teller, Carlos Correa, we appreciate it. If you’d like to come and tell more truths about anything about your time in Houston. About the bullshit lowball offers that the Houston front office’s has given you. Uhm you’re welcome here onTipping Pitches anytime. Thank you for listening, everybody. We will be back next week with a very special episode dedicated to explaining the concept of arbitration. We’ll see you then.
[44:55]
[Music]
[45:09]
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya.
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
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