Bobby and Alex talk Jon Heyman’s growing sentience, then take stock of the World Series so far, examining what has made it enjoyable — or not — to watch. Then they discuss the looming likelihood of a strike, assessing what they think a potential work stoppage will look like and where the power balance stands right now. This week’s Three Up, Three Down features the pitfalls of Steve Cohen’s poster’s mentality, and the Oakland A’s continuing their calculated retreat from Oakland.
Links:
Robert Blum on the possibility of a lockout
Steve Cohen’s tweet is brought into the courtroom
Steve Cohen in talks to bring a casino to Queens
Joe Biden tells the Pope a Satchel Paige story
Songs featured in this episode:
Brad stank — “Watering the Garden” • J. Rawls — “That Very First Day – Instrumental” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcription
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and and and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about. It’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, I’d like to start this episode by doing something that no podcast host should do. Rules are made to be broken. And it’s not a question, it’s not a question. Ahh It, it will lead to a question.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: I like to start–
ALEX: As good podcast hosts do it usually leads to a to a question of some sort.
BOBBY: It’s all about discussion, debate, open forum, thought–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –free thinking.
ALEX: Yeah, reaching across the aisle.
BOBBY: Just asking a lot of questions. And well, double the advocate. That’s what this podcast is about.
ALEX: Yeah. What are the ideas, guys?
BOBBY: Anyway, I’m going to start this podcast by reading a tweet. I’m going to read the tweet and you’re going to tell me who tweeted it. The tweet goes like this, “Great job by the Padres to get Bob Melvin to manage the team, one of the better managers in the game. As for the A’s, they get to save money.” Dantantan, who tweeted that tweet Alex Bazeley.
ALEX: Hmm, my first guess is us. Did we tweet that?
BOBBY: It sounds like us, immediately defaulting within minutes to criticizing a team for being cheap. That sounds like us.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. No, was it? Was it one MLB insider Jon Heyman?
BOBBY: Yes, this is how–
ALEX: –that he who it is?
BOBBY: This is how we know that Rob Manfred and MLB are stacked up against the A’s, because Jon Heyman is tweeting shit against the A’s.
ALEX: Yeah. How do you think the the higher upset uhm that MLB Network felt about that? Hey, Jon, pump the pump the brakes on the on the team criticism over here on the on the A’s finances situation? That’s kind of a it’s embargoed right now. I would imagine that sort of thing is embargoed for for MLB Network reporters.
BOBBY: Maybe I’m just reading too much into it in my own tone in the voice in my own head. And perhaps what he was saying is like they get to save money, yay.
ALEX: Well, actually–
BOBBY: All teams need to save money–
ALEX: I on thought he was being earnest.
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: And I’m not entirely convinced that he he he wasn’t being earnest and was like, no the A’s get to, and A;s save a few million dollars,
BOBBY: You have your million dollars–
ALEX: [2:35]–
BOBBY: –while he’s still under contract for nothing, just for those few million dollars, like [2:39]–
ALEX: The new market inefficiency is having your manager stay for the period of his contract.
BOBBY: That’s–
ALEX: Why would you do that, when you could just not do that?
BOBB: Michael Lewis been been a little quiet on the Moneyball front, by the way. Oh, he just puts out the money, no follow up, no interrogation, no criticism. You want Moneyball rot in the world, Michael Lewis–
ALEX: Were you write one 500 book and I one time 500 page book and I guess you’re done, huh?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: That’s it? At Least your ton to be use in discourse.
BOBBY: Where’s your appearance on Tipping Pitches to explain how Moneyball turned into 73 raised front office rants from me 15 years later?
ALEX: I really respect a bit he dropped a a somewhat groundbreaking work that for at least the the broader for at least the broader public, reshaped how we how we looked at Baseball how uhm, how we understood the the the game in modern terms. And then he just left and was like, Yeah, I’m done with with that chapter of my career. I’m gonna go do something else. It’s like, I’m gonna I’m gonna let you guys go fight amongst yourselves for the next two decades.
BOBBY: And fight we did much like “The Avatar” when we needed Michael Lewis most he vanished.
ALEX: Uh-hmm
BOBBY: Okay, Alex, we’re gonna talk about the actual World Series, which is actually still going on in the actual real world. Even though it doesn’t quite feel that way. We’re going to talk about the impending work stoppage. Lockout strike, I don’t know how it’s actually going to go down. We’re going to talk about Minor League Baseball as we always do, and we will finish with “Three Up, Three Down”. Before we do all of that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I am Alex Bazeley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[4:22]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Alex, obligatory plug next week 200th Episode. You heard about this, you heard about the 200th Episode?
ALEX: Fro–from you, yeah–
BOBBY: For all the all the other times we’re recording where I said this and then I asked if you were excited about the 200th episode.
ALEX: Yes, I think you’re reminding that you’re reminding me as much as you are reminding the listeners of this.
BOBBY: We’re like the proxy for the listener, you know. If I can make you laugh, I can make the listener laughs. If you can make me laugh or cry, you can make the listener laugh or cry.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: 200th episodes coming up next week. Uhh unfortunately, the World Series is not over yet. So we will have to talk about the end of the World Series at the beginning of that episode, but we will quickly dispatch with that real Baseball talk and we will move on to the 200th episode, voicemail AMA, email, question extravaganza. Please, if you have not submitted a question, you’re interested in submitting a question, you may do that via email tippingpitchespod@gmail.com. You can do that via our voicemail if you’d like to hear your voice on our show. And we would love that 7854225881. And we will also this week because it is less than a week until that episode comes out, we will put out a tweet calling for those questions. Uhh we wanted to wait until the last second to do that, because that usually elicits like a bunch of people asking fake questions that they don’t actually want to know the answer to. So I’m putting that off until the very end so that we can field as many questions as possible, but as many real questions as possible.
ALEX: Yeah, I’d like real questions to an extent.
BOBBY: They can be about not real thing like not real topics, not Baseball, but real questions that aren’t like sarcastic, cynical poison brain. I don’t actually want to know the answer to this question. I just want you to know that I’m funny by asking it not–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –that those come on Twitter.
ALEX: Right, exactly. So the kinds of things that you and I might post were posed, were this not our own podcast, we may be [6:20]–
BOBBY: [6:20] one shoe on the other foot, yeah.
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: With a mic in front of the other mouth.
ALEX: Yup, you got another one in there?
BOBBY: Uhh, where the headphone on the other ear?
ALEX: We the we the, we the pitcher in the in the in the batter’s box.
BOBBY: I don’t get that one. All Right, let’s talk about the World Series.
ALEX: Okay
BOBBY: 3-2, Atlanta’s up, it looked for a hot second, like they were gonna close it out in game five at home, and it was gonna be a gentleman sweep of the team that we have been saying this whole time was actually a lot better than the Braves. Uhh, let’s just get right into it, what are your action is so far through through five games as we head back to Houston for game six and potentially game seven?
ALEX: You know, I I feel like I have really myself and perhaps the average fan out there has gone through a rollercoaster of of feels about this World Series. Because I think that many people were not enthused coming into the matchup, right? And you and I talked ad nauseum about why the reasons why it morally it doesn’t make sense to for either of these teams, right? And that largely has nothing to do with the the thing that they actually are doing on the field which is playing Baseball. Both of which these teams are quite good at doing. Ahh I will say that actually the the Baseball that has been played in this World Series I found to be quite enjoyable all things considered, the first couple games got off to a bit of a slow start I think as we know it was a bit of a route uhm going both ways. And I think after the first two games people were kind of like, we’re still waiting for further like the the World Series to kick in you know the Fall Classic still still waiting for that classic part to ahh to arrive at the station and things got a little more interesting from there I would say. We had the the the flirting with the no hitter a combined no hitter if you will. You know we may we may talk about that. We had some comebacks by both the Braves and the Astros things picked up in my opinion I’m do I think it’s a it’s a World Series that will stand the test of time? Maybe not, but all things considered have I enjoyed watching watching these Baseball games I’d say I’d say overall I’d say I’m in a really weird like headspace right now. Where when I’m watching the actual games, I find myself by and large enjoying them enjoying the two teams, because I enjoy a lot of the players and it’s really when you kind of step outside of that arena, right? And listen to whatever Rod Manfred is saying on a given day or or or watch the Fox Broadcast pan to a a crowd of of white people doing ahh doing a racist chant and gesture you know those are the things–
BOBBY: Pan lovingly you can say.
ALEX: –pan lovingly like oh my God, I’ve turned on I think it was game five the other day and they were doing their little intro tee up. And it wasn’t just like a shot of the chop it was like seven consecutive you know it was like we’re gonna show you section 312 doing it and 110 and the folks in the bleachers and the folks in the nosebleeds [9:40]–
BOBBY: We just want to make sure you know everyone, the the fascist former president in the box sweets like–
ALEX: Yeah, it’s everywhere you turn.
BOBBY: Yeah he was doing like the fascist plus version of the chop. Hi–his–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –was really rigid is like you, yeah, I don’t want to get into that this is that’s gonna poison the well of this conversation. Game four was the one for me, that was the best game of the series so far that was a real bonafide World Series game. Great play on both sides, particularly the Eddie Rosario catch. And that being the other side of the coin of your Ron Alvarez being unable to make a similarly amazing grab, as Jorge Soler homered for the Braves after going back to back with Dansby Swanson to give them the 3-2 lead. And eventually, that lead would hold on as they went up three one in the series. Uhm it’s been a bit of a weird series so far, though, because while I agree that that game had some great Baseball, there have been some highlight moments, highlight performances, standout performances from guys who you can spin a narrative about. I think that, for me, it’s been more so that Houston has just not played that well, in the games that they’ve lost. And they’ve played this, this is gonna sound very reductive, but they’ve played a lot better in the games that they’ve won. They’ve looked a lot more like themselves. It hasn’t been like, Houston has looked like this powerhouse team and Atlanta is just failing them at every turn. To me, it’s been more like, Houston’s let themselves down. And I felt like–
ALEX: Less out Braves winning and more the Astros losing.
BOBBY: Right, and that maybe seems a little bit unfair to Atlanta. And I think that it’s kind of deceptive the way that they’ve been beating teams all postseason, because, like their bullpen, who I don’t think that everybody thought was really the strong suit of the team coming into the year, they’ve really shown out. Uhm and they’ve really looked very, very good. And then some games they just look like they don’t quite have it. And I guess that that can happen when you’re a bullpen in games. You just not every guy might be, not every guy might be as rested as he needs to be. Uhm and then that can just sort of lead to a snowballing effect against a a lineup that is as deep as Houston’s. But you know, I quoted this from fullest from fullest Baseball, and the stat heading into game five. This was before Houston kind of exploded a little bit in game five and scored nine runs and won that game convincingly. Hitters are slashing 172 To 59 to 63, with runners in scoring position versus Atlanta this postseason. Now again, that was before game five yesterday, so those numbers are probably a lot higher now. Given that Houston scored a few two out runs yesterday, uhm and had a ton of hits. But that’s really bad and we’re like in game five of the World Series now, that’s like a decent sample of innings. You know, that’s like almost a month’s worth of games of teams just forgetting how to hit when their guys on second and third against them. And that will propel you to the World Series. I’ll tell you why that will propel you to a 3-1 series. But it might not close it out for you, you might need to do a little bit more than that. Uhm if you want to actually stick the sword in the Astros, twist it and kill them because man given up a grand slam in bottom of the first inning, on the road, down 3-1 in the series, and then climbing back and winning a game that it was barely ever in doubt after the fourth or fifth inning. That’s real comeback stuff right there. That is real champion level, flip the script stuff that they did in that game. So we’ll see. I mean, this is all just narrative BS until it completes itself. But I did think that they missed a golden opportunity there. Similarly, I felt like Houston blew a golden opportunity in game four to wrestle back control of the series with those back to back home runs, like it seemed like that was Houston’s game to lose, especially given the fact that they left double digit runners on base, and only ended up scoring two runs in that game.
ALEX: A lot has happened and also very little has happened, right? And I think that at the end of the day, a lot of these games have felt kind of like, run of the mill Baseball game. You know, we haven’t had a lot of those like, trademark October moments. I’ve I I feel like you know, those those moments that you will look back on and say, Well, we’re going to be thinking about that for for years to come, right. Obu–you mentioned Eddie Rosario’s catch, which was amazing. And Ian Anderson’s, you know, five no hit innings and the team going on to throw a two hit shutout against the Astros. I mean, it was a wonderful performance by that pitching staff. But I haven’t gotten like goosebumps.
BOBBY: No, not a lot–
ALEX: Not anything yet?
BOBBY: –not a lot of bang bang plays. What’s the bang bang play index on this on this series so far?
ALEX: I don’t know what’s what’s what’s the scale we’re talking about? A four? Is it this weighted, scale? Yeah, weigh it, scale it to 100. Bang bang play index, 70?
BOBBY: Right, 60? Uhm, I agree the game the game still really normal. Uhm Houston is leading the series run differential 2018 Despite being down 3-2, so none of the games that Houston wins are super close. And none of the games that Atlanta wins are blowouts. So I just don’t I mean, I guess that’s Baseball, right? Is a small sample seven game series. I don’t know, maybe that’s a good opportunity to ask you what you think is gonna happen in game six and seven. Not that I have to hold you to this prediction or anything like that. But, you know, do you think Houston can pull off the 3-1 comeback? Do you think they can perpetuate the Atlanta sports curse, which is really rigging around the Georgia area right now.
ALEX: Mmm.
BOBBY: It must be really feeling it,
ALEX: in my professional opinion and I’ll use a lot of analytics to back this up. I feel like the Braves got to pull it off, right?
BOBBY: That was it? That was the professionalism [15:39]–
ALEX: [15:39], those are my those are the analytics that I was using to back it up is, right? It kind of feels like it, right? You know?
BOBBY: The intonation at the end, right?
ALEX: I mean–
BOBBY: That’s rhetorical flair.
ALEX: Exactly. There is something about the team that does feel a little bit special, right? The fact that they fortify their outfield at the the deadline with a lot of run of the mill players who on any other team might be a role player or a fourth outfielder or something like that. And they’ve managed to cobble together some really incredible moments. Uhm again, that that doesn’t mean anything when you’re out there on the field in front of 40,000, screaming Astros fans and Ted Cruz. But you know, you mentioned kind of the Astros not really showing up. And the Braves do feel like the kind of team that are that we’ll be able to capitalize on that sort of thing. Right now that they’re the Astros only have to win two, right? The Braves only have to win one. So it’s not like the Braves have a massive lead in this series or anything like that. But it really only takes a couple mistakes or the or the bats going quiet for the Astros for a few innings for the Braves to really eat this out. And if they can hand it over to the bullpen and see their guys really like do what they can do. Like they’ve been doing this postseason, then I think they have a good shot at making it happen.
BOBBY: They just feel like a really well rounded team. They don’t have a lot of holes,
ALEX: Correct. Well, it’s so I think the Braves can can do It. Are you are you on board with that?
BOBBY: No, I think Houston’s gonna win.
ALEX: Yeah, you think they’ll pull it out?
BOBBY: I think they will.
ALEX: To place bets, should we ahh should we bet some crypto on this?
BOBBY: Yeah, I’m gonna bet one one 1,197th of a Bitcoin on this game. Uhm to the Moon. No, I It feels less than likely that Houston will do it because they would have had to win three straight games, they will have to win two straight games from this point. And you’d never pick a team to beat another team this late in the season two straight times if you’re going to truly believe the analytics. But I think going back home, I think Houston obviously hits very well at home. Couple times in the broadcast where Joe Buck and John Smoltz just said that without really like realizing how that would reverberate around, mainly Twitter. But Houston hits so incredibly well at home and then a bunch of people at home making jokes about the science dealing. Uhm I just think that there is a snowballing effect to their lineup and their team that can just get away from Atlanta very quickly. And I think that that–
ALEX: [18:20] game five.
BOBBY: Right. And if they’re going to play that there anything approaching their best version of a game, then I don’t really think Atlanta stands a chance. And I didn’t before the season, or before the series started either. So maybe I’m wrong and maybe you’re right, maybe Atlanta will sneak one in game six, or absolutely crushed the Astros on the road in game seven. Do you see the stat that no team has clinched the World Series on their home fields since 2013?
ALEX: Really?
BOBBY: Isn’t that kind of hard to believe?
ALEX: It is kind of hard to believe.
BOBBY: At 17 was the one that I thought Houston won at home, but I guess I’m wrong. I guess I was wrong there. Uhh, okay, so you got Atlanta. I got Houston. Let’s talk really quickly about, I have it written down in my notes as imminent work stoppage. Uhm, we got a few reports before the World Series that Rob Manfred and Tony Clark had met and discussed the upcoming CBA expiration, but we haven’t heard much since then. We’ve obviously had a couple of trickle couple news items trickle out over the last few months about the things the various things that they were discussing the various pressure points that each side was most interested in discussing in the lead up negotiations. It’s when the CBA expires on December 1. We’ve discussed those items in detail, but I’m curious Alex. Uhm I guess we’ll start here. I was listening to effectively wild ahh earlier in the week, when Michael Baumann, my coworker at the rigor was co hosting filling in for Ben Lindbergh and mega rally, who is the regular host of that show, asked him what scenario he thinks is most likely out of this offseason on the labor front. So I’ll steal that question and ask you the same thing before options that make presented were new deal before December 1st. Extension of the current deal and a new deal like immediately after December 1st, and like maybe a week after. The deal expires, but a new deal before the season starts, ahh or like an extended labor stoppage, we miss a lot of next year. So out of those four options, what do you think is the most likely outcome based on what you’re you’re feeling as we start to hear word of imminent work stoppage or imminent failure to agree upon a new CBA before the December 1st deadline expiration?
ALEX: Right. Well, this was this conversation was renewed via ahh AP news article from from Ronald bloom about a week ago. That was basically his take after talking to sources right? Saying it feels like we have a work stoppage looming. For their part. Rob Manfred, and Tony Clark seemed relatively optimistic talking ahh before the World Series, they were like, Yeah, well, we feel like we’re gonna get a deal done. I feel like they’re probably legally obligated to just say that, because the last thing you want to do is so doubt–
BOBBY: Definitely legally obligated you say that I can confirm [21:18]–
ALEX: Yes. It feels at this point, almost certain that we are going to get a work stoppage. And it’s not going to feel like a work stoppage because it’s the offseason. And we won’t see that actually impact the game itself. Uhm but I think we’re gonna get a lockout, nothing that we have heard over the last few months, has indicated that they are anywhere close to reaching a deal. The the, the proposals that we’ve heard floated from both sides seem radically far apart. And that’s not to say that they haven’t been negotiating in the interim. But I don’t see a a scenario in which the frankly, the owners feel compelled to actually make their best faith proposal prior to the expiration of the agreement. Because frankly, the owners have a little more leverage in this situation, right? Because it’s not in the middle of the season. The the players in the players could strike, but it wouldn’t do much to impact owners bottom line. And and with the the luxury tax rules, expiring with the CBA. The thinking is that teams are going to be far less incentivized to actually sign free agents are make deals with anyone without a contract in place, right? Because why would they if you don’t know what the luxury tax is, or, or what arbitration looks like, or anything like that. So I think the owners see it as they probably have a decent runway to get things done. I mean, there’s a couple months, right, I mean, spring training doesn’t actually start until mid February. So I feel like the most likely scenario is on December 2nd, the owners file whatever legal papers they have to do to create a lockout, and negotiations go from there. And my guess is by the time that February rolls around, they probably will have hammered out the deal, because I don’t really think either side is interested in missing a boatload of games this year. But then again, I don’t know, things have been really acrimonious over the last couple years. And I think that the players are going to be a lot more militant that made then maybe they would have been in years past, given how poorly negotiations went over the shortened COVID season, right? I think players are going to be slightly more willing to to dig their heels in and not cede ahh more ground to management than they have to so we’ll see. But my instinct is saying we’ll get a lockout that that likely ends around the time that Spring Training gets into into full gear, and maybe we maybe we miss some Spring Training games, maybe–
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: –open days push back a week–
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: –[24:20] like.
BOBBY: We must have those spring training games. So yeah, so that it’s that middle path that a lot of people assume is going to happen because it’s in everyone’s best interest to have labor peace and an industry that makes billions of dollars every year. But a couple things, a couple of things. By the way, you you answered it the same way that Bauman did so congratulations. Uhm in being in solidarity with our uhm annual State of labor correspondent. Ahh we have the hive mind together. Ahh yeah, a couple things that you said though, I, I think it’s basically in unless the owners come with some sweetheart deal before December 1st, which as you expertly laid out, they probably won’t because they don’t need to. I think it’s basically in everyone’s interest to let this current CBA expire. I don’t think it’s in anyone’s interest to lose games over this. But if the owners are still offering a shitty deal, come February 1st, I think that the player should continue not to agree to it. Uhm because I think that is every workers right to withhold their labor unless they are offered terms with which, which they think are fair. That’s the whole point of the negotiation. But like the players have been publicly maligned by the owners, basically, for our entire lives. And they’ve been made out to be the reason that there ever might not be labor peace, in Baseball. And that finally started to shift last year, in the return to play package where they they had this coordinated message where they said, Tell us when and where we want to come back, we want to, we want to play because we want to put on as much a season as possible, both for the fans, and also for ourselves, so we can continue and for the league for the greater league so we can continue to bring in money. I I think that it’s a kind of a double-edged sword as to the fact that the CBA expires in December, on December 1st in the offseason, because on the one hand, you can say, well, it’s much more public, if it ends in the middle of a season, and the players can then weaponize that, but I think it’s a bigger risk, too, because that sort of backfired in 1994, they did get a lot of wins. So I guess it didn’t really backfire. But in terms of public and the court of public opinion, they lost a lot of public favor with with fans, I think that it’s reasonable to be optimistic about the fact that fans might be more accepting of something like that if it happened in the 21st century. But I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that a majority of fans would be okay with that, because who do you blame if your team is not doing well? Typically, most fans don’t blame the Owner, they blame the players because they want some play every day, and they watch them lose, a lot of days. So and if your team’s not playing at all, then the players are just gone. And it’s just like this ever present reminder that the players don’t, aren’t willing to come in and work now that is all capitalists, brain drain bullshit. But, you know, a lot of people think that way. Uhm but back to my circling all the way back to my point about it ending on December 1st, and it’s not in the player’s interest to accept a deal before then, because they have legitimate gripes about how the last few years have gone, how the last five to eight years of free agency spending has gone. How year over year spending is actually going down when revenue is going up. They have legitimate gripes about all of that stuff. And unless the owners truly come with what you know, is their best offer, which is very hard to prove, then you haven’t quite done your due diligence in being a militant union, which the MLBPA, at least was conceived as when Marvin Miller started it because they fought a lot of battles a very aggressively, and that’s been much written about. You haven’t really done your due diligence in extracting as much possible out of the other side in this negotiation, because you’ve been mad, don’t forget the fact that you’ve been mad for the last five years. Because they’ve been treating you like shit and eroding the power of your union. Because of it, because of those ex–exploding revenues that they’ve been able to leverage for their side and not your side. And, again, I say you can’t forget the fact that they were in your opinions and your legal opinion still operating in bad faith in the return to play package, which they need I remind everyone that that lawsuit is still unsettled. That billion dollar lawsuit that the players are suing on the ownership side for is still unsettled. So I think it’s basically a 0% chance that they agreed to terms before December 1st because of that reason, because the players need to send a signal send an overture to the Management side that this can’t happen in the lead up to the next expiration of the next CBA. It’s all about the long game, win the battle, but also make sure you’re still winning the war. And you can’t just accept a decent win of this battle, if it means that you’re allowing them to set the terms of the war in the way that they have in the last five years.
ALEX: Yeah, I think that ever since the 94 strike owners did their best to make certain that players would never have that leverage again, right? That that players would not be the one to call the strike because again, like you said, they managed to win a good amount of concessions there, right? And so that’s this is why the CBA is expiring in December and not in in July or whatever. Uhm but the the other side of that is that an owner imposed lockout does tend to push public opinion towards the side of players, right? Because the player are saying as you as you mentioned, they had their their messaging down during the shortened season negotiations by saying, “Hey, we’re ready to play. If you give us fair terms, we’ll come and do it.” And so I do think that that’s something that the owners probably have in mind is they don’t want to see a protracted work stoppage that is because of them. Because I think the public will turn on them pretty quickly. And I’m pretty sure that Rob Manfred does not want to be the reason that Baseball has Baseball season end till labor peace after 26 years, right? Knowing how poorly he’s doing in the in the approval ratings category already. I can’t imagine that he wants to go down as the Commissioner who breaks that labor piece. And the other tool that players have, which we haven’t even mentioned, at least on this episode is expanded playoffs, right? Which is a massive bargaining chip that owners want incredibly badly. And so while while owners, I think we’ll have a good amount of leverage in the, in the first few weeks, or even month or so, in negotiations. Like we’ve said, I don’t think it’s in either side’s best interest to let it actually bleed over into the regular season. And I think you’ll find that owners are are not really interested in letting that happen either. Because there is both a cultural war for them to be lost. And, and an economic poor, there’s a lot of money on the line. So we’ll see, this is this has been inevitable for for months, we have foreshadowed this for a while now. And while it’s certainly going to be less exciting, and it’s going to feel like less than a than a player’s strike. I am hoping that the the union is is unified on what they want and can actually use that position to to extract some real wins. Because there’s a lot wrong with Baseball’s economic system and the end the play itself what goes on on the field. So the players have a lot to win if they can actually get their ducks in a row.
BOBBY: I think chief among those things, you mentioned extended playoffs, right? That’s what the owners want. I think chief among what players should want is lowering the age with which you are allowed to start making your most money. Because the age of the best players is getting lower and lower every year just because of the different ways that teams develop players at younger ages now. The different expectations of players at younger ages, the different international exploitations of teenagers causes younger players to be making it to the Majors earlier, There are many different global factors as to why players are better younger. And yet, the CBA is still preventing them from making the proper money that they’re making at those ages. And, you know, we’ve talked a million times about how that specificity still leaves out, Minor Leaguers from the equation. However, a win for younger players in the Major League union can be spun at least publicly as momentum and shifting public opinion towards a win for even younger players who are in the Minor Leagues, you know, or even ahh less established big leaguers who are not established at all and are still in Minor league Baseball, still making below minimum wage in most cases. Uhm we got a little bit of news on that front today, the court, federal court hearing for the class action lawsuit uhm that has been led in the public and in the courts by Garrett Broshuis uhm that we’ve talked about a bunch of times on this show. It is sort of like this ominous looming thing that is coming in, I think June of 22? Uhm but there was a little bit of reporting in the athletic today from Daniel Kaplan, about how both sides are gathering up as much evidence as possible to present pre trial to the different federal courts to try to win the case before it even happens. Uhm I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t totally know how common or normal this is, it seems like it’s a normal practice to present as much as many exhibits and as many items to the different the various sides across the various sides in the case before it actually gets heard by the federal judge. And one of those items that the ahh the Minor Leaguers side presented was an actual Steve Cohen tweet. And if you’ll remember us discussing the Steve Cohen tweet, they came after the Mets failed to sign their first round draft pick Kumar Rocker and Steve Cohen tweeted “Education time – Baseball draft picks are worth up to 5x their slot value to clubs. I never shy away from investments that can make me that type of return. So the site the minor leaguers side is trying to present this as evidence as to how much value that Minor leaguers are actually bringing the club compared to how much money they are being paid back. And how MLB’s side is arguing that they don’t need to pay them more than minimum wage because their contractual workers and the Minor League teams are not profitable as it is. So it it’s not necessary to pay these guys what they’re actually worth to the greater organization. So all of these factors are linking Baseball teams together in a legal sense, in a public opinion sense, in a labor solidarity sense, in a way that they have never been linked before. The enemy for the MLBPA, Steve Cohen, the MLB for Minor Leaguers in court, Steve Cohen. On Steve Cohen’s side, Rob Manfred, the enemy of us, Rob Man–for you know what I mean? It’s like, everybody is now starting to train their focus on the ownership side. And I I think that that is a good thing. I’m cautiously optimistic.
ALEX: I have to be grudgingly respect to the hell out of the fact of it. Steve Cohen is posting his way towards paying Minor Leaguers fair wages, uncompletely unintentionally this man logged on to Twitter one morning and said you know what I’m going to do accidentally up into the sports economic system whom among us–
BOBBY: If we could have done it, we would have done it.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: All right, anything else to say on this? So we should take a quick break.
ALEX: No, let’s get to “Three Up, Three Down”.
[36:38]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: All right, Alex, “Three Up, Three Down”. Let’s start with Down. Let’s start with you. Are you ready? No, I’m saying–
ALEX: I guess.
BOBBY: –I’m saying I’m starting with it’s actually me my Down this week is you, you’re a downer. Uhm you’re taking away my joy. I don’t like doing this anymore, I know. Eric Bledsoe tweet, “I don’t want to be here.” Just kidding, you go first. Down this week.
ALEX: Oh, what to pick first. There’s a plethora of options over here as an A’s fan. Let’s go with Bob Melvin. You know the Oakland A’s Manager, the one of the more revered managers in Baseball. You know the the second longest tenure A’s Manager behind the story. Connie Mack. You know the A’s Manager who had just had his option picked up for for next season IS coaching the Padres new new Padres’ Manager. Incredible–this news broke on like a random Thursday night. And correct me if I’m wrong, every single aspect of this took everyone by surprise. I don’t think anyone even really had an awareness that that Melvin was looking at other managerial jobs that the A’s would let him walk from his contract. And I am of two minds of the I am of two minds on this. One, the the Padres got a really great dude over there for a clubhouse that could probably use an experienced Manager in it as we saw. I mean we they they had their their issues over the last year and and the second half collapse didn’t didn’t bode well for Jayce Tingler anyway. Uhm but I think it helps to have someone who knows his way around a winning ballclub and I knows how to navigate the relationship between the the front office and the coaching staff. And who is even keeled and gets along with players like this is these are all wins for the Padres. As for the Oakland A’s, what’s a what’s what’s the dealio? What’s what are we what do we got cooking up, Johnny-
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –Boy?
BOBBY: I really don’t know. It’s confounding. You’re right, your characterization is completely correct. This happened on a random Thursday night, nobody saw it coming. There was no whispers no trickling of this news. I didn’t even see it until the next morning.
ALEX: Didn’t even see it.
BOBBY: Didn’t even see it was just living my life. Uhm and a couple people made fun of me and I was like, sorry I was fucking, my phone was on “Do Not Disturb”. Uhm it was very weird both in that nobody knew that Bob Melvin was available or looking for another job. And also in that Oakland didn’t get any compensation back. There’s obviously precedent for gaining compensation, draft pick or financial compensation for Executives or Managers or coaches or whatever it ends up being not just for players. So it really did seem like ahh the only real explanation you can have for this is that the aides are gonna blow it up or move, or both. And Billy Beane, wanted to let his friend stay in California, and go manage an up and coming team. I hate for that to be the read here. But I just don’t have another explanation for it.
ALEX: I don’t either. This felt to me a bit like them saying, “Get out before the ship starts sinking”. You know, you we we respect you, we don’t want to leave you here with a with an empty out roster. We’re going to let you go with grace before we tear down. And that’s really unfortunate, because, you know, he’s been a really good Baseball team over the last few years and has some really good players on it.
BOBBY: Yeah, basically, since like the 2012. They’ve been pretty good.
ALEX: Yep, Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Ahh, yeah this sort of reminds me of when all of those Senators got tips about the pandemic, how it was going to tank the stock market. And then they went and sold a bunch of shit. Sorry, Bob Melvin [41:14] me to compare [41:15].
ALEX: Insider trading.
BOBBY: Kelly Loeffler, but you know, it’s insider trading is very acceptable in the Baseball world. Baseball world is built on insider trading.
ALEX: Yeah, seriously. Uhh all right. What is first Down for you this week?
BOBBY: Speaking of things that the Baseball world has now built on Alex, not just insider trading, but ahh gambling, sports gambling. Think that maybe you’ll recall, we’ve talked about this a few times. Ahh guess who, which after mentioned OOwners interested in building casino. Oh, it’s Steve Cohen, baby.
ALEX: That’s right.
BOBBY: Steve Cohen is in talks with some Las Vegas casino ring doesn’t know free ads, no free ads Las Vegas casinos. Uhm to put a new casino close by Citi Field. Because you know what’s gonna really revitalize the good hard working people of Queens. Casino every you know–
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: –everybody says the customers always win at casinos. Right? That’s what I’ve heard about casinos.
ALEX: You know, where I love to go spend a good amount of time is the area surrounding Citi Field also.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Lots going on there. It’s really hopping lots of places to get drinks. It’s just it’s not contrary to what most people claim. A massive parking lot.
BOBBY: It’s not.
ALEX: The world iss your oyster you know.
BOBBY: Shade to flushing like guys, shade to flushing. No, most of that deepest part of Queens is just residential. Uhm–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –there’s like no economic or social goods reason why you need to put a casino there. Other than that, sports betting and Baseball runs so deep, that it just makes sense for for all of the Baseball Executives to be within a close driving distance of all of the casino Executives. Like that is literally the only reason, it’s not like there are millions of aspiring 11 year old card dealers who are just waiting for the right job opportunity when they matriculate through high school. So I’m gonna create a bunch of jobs.
ALEX: Yeah, but this stuff is inextricable from the sport at this point, even if it’s not going to be Citi Field casino, they’re gonna feed into each other.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Right, I mean, it’s you have if if, if one person is owning both that’s just business, you want them to to be in conversation with each other. So I it’s the the casino isolation of Major League Baseball continues. I for one, I for one, welcome our new gambling overlords.
BOBBY: I mean Baseball’s name of the game in Baseball has always been money laundering. Why make it more complicated than it needs to be? Ahh–
ALEX: Yeah, that’s true.
BOBBY: Speaking of, you know, Cricket business operations, did you see that our good friend, Chris Christie is advising Steve Cohen on how to hire a new GM. According to Deesha Thosar of The New York Daily News, Cohen is mostly talking with uninformed people about the Mets GM job, like former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie, and folks that is hedge fund point 72, who serve as some of his advisors during the search. According to a source familiar with the situation, Christie joined the Mets board of directors in February, forgot about that. And his son Andrew also works for the Mets as the coordinator of amateur and international scouting. Cohen keeps Alderson informed on the status of the search and occasionally asked him to dig around for more candidates part of the source. I don’t know about you, but I can’t think of anybody that look for a new anybody better to look for a new GM than Chris Christie.
ALEX: Frankly, give it to him.
BOBBY: Just let him be the GM?
ALEX: Give him, give him the job. I mean, the list is running kind of short right now. I think you and I are on the list at this point
BOBBY: From an from another person on Mets’ Twitter who appears to perhaps just be a podcast host. But I guess he talks to sources. Everybody talks to sources now everybody has a source. I have a source here my source.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: You’re always right. No one around Steve Cohen is too concerned right now. This is from Jack W. Ramsey. From a source close to the owner, quote. “No one is concerned. All he fucking does is win.”
ALEX: Hmm, the last year of the New York Mets says otherwise. But yeah, sure. Things have gotten real great ahh in the business suites over at the New York Metro–Metropolitan Baseball Organization, right?
BOBBY: We’re up to like rejected script ideas for the TV show billions level of operations–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –over in Queens right now.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Chris Christie?
ALEX: Chris Christie.
BOBBY: All right, next Down for you, Chris Christie.
ALEX: Uhm, Well, you, I’m sorry that I’m a miserable A’s fan. But that’s the who I am, remain to ahh to my core. And ahh and you mentioned, the only possible reason they could let Bob Melvin walk. He’s either blowing up the team or ahh leaving. Well, this weekend, the the A’s sent out an email to fans of the Las Vegas aviators. That’s the that’s the A’s AAA affiliate right now. To say, “Hey, guys, what are your thoughts on ahh on a Baseball team in Las Vegas? What are your thoughts on a Baseball team that rhymes with mathletics in on the Las Vegas strip?”
BOBBY: Mathletic, were you ever part, you ever mathlete?
ALEX: Uhm, I was a part of the Oakland A’s mathletics.
BOBBY: Ohh.
ALEX: You know, stick, whatever it was, you know where you’d like kids, you would like sign up to be a part of the program and you send in some some math problems and they send you like a backpack full of swag. It was great.
BOBBY: Nice.
ALEX: I had my timetable down, front to back.
BOBBY: Wow. This is why America is so far out ahead of the rest of the world, the Baseball teams ask you to send in math problems.
ALEX: Anyway, I I this doesn’t actually, I think indicate anything different. This is just a part of the same, you know, round of quote unquote “fillers” that they’ve been putting out over the last year, year plus. But it doesn’t bring me much peace or solace knowing that they’re asking Las Vegas Baseball fans what their thoughts are on a Las Vegas Baseball team. Some of the ahh some of the questions on the poll were fairly straightforward, but I think my favorite collection of questions were about the ballpark design as it relates to a potential roof. Because as you know, Las Vegas tends to get a little warm during the summer months. And as you may also know, it’s only gonna get hotter. And so they are forced to say of these three options. What do you most prefer an open air ballpark? Retractable roof ballpark? Or a fully enclosed ballpark? What would you prefer? If you were going to see a Baseball game in Las Vegas?
BOBBY: It feels like obviously, retractable roof. You could have both options.
ALEX: Right, I don’t know. Like who is Mayor saying [48:52]–
BOBBY: Are we including all of the other accoutrements that come with retractable roof like a hat how I like every business in the area has to give like a 10,000, one time $10,000 stipend to them to build this retractable roof. About how the taxpayers have to have their taxes raised for the next–
ALEX: Probably.
BOBBY: –13 years to pay for the retractable, do we have to include all of that? In my answer, do you want me to just say face value what I think would be best. Yeah, I don’t think it’s a good idea to find–
ALEX: There is no, there’s no long answer option.
BOBBY: I give the notes Am I allowed to give notes? I’ve always been more of an open ended extended essay answer kind of guy. Ahh I don’t think that Matt Olson should be playing in 114 degree heat for the next three years, that’s all you’re asking. Reason I didn’t say Matt Chapman is because he’s not playing there at all. Yeah, it’s pylon Alex hours.
ALEX: That hurts. At least I’ll be able to watch him out here in Queens, you know?
BOBBY: Yes, that is right. finally coming around. You got so mad as you just did that last year.
ALEX: At this point. I just accept my fate is such as life. Okay. Your Up.
BOBBY: [49:59] last on this, it’s it’s kind of a power move to just as the climate crisis barrels towards us. Just be like, we’ll lean in and we’ll, we’ll adapt to the desert before the rest of the world as a desert. You know, like–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –they’ll be hardened to it. There’ll be like bane–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –you know, like that you don’t want to be playing in Oakland with Oakland becomes a desert.
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: For floods, you know, and it doesn’t exist anymore. And, you know, the slightly inland Bay Area’s just desert. You don’t want that.
ALEX: Can’t can’t watch your surrounding city. Slowly turn into a desert if you already live in one.
BOBBY: Yes. My thoughts exactly. Uhm speaking of the Bay Area, my next Down is Giants owner Charles Johnson. Everybody quick round of applause for Charles Johnson, who pledged that the San Francisco Giants and Baseball ownerships, his Baseball ownership in general would not contribute to political candidates who were, you know, loosely arguing in favor of treason? I guess you could say. Uhh this came after it was reported that he had supported Lauren Boebert, ahh who is a California representative who’s like, deeply cute on Magga stop the steel type of person. And then it came out just today or yesterday that Charles Johnson has been contributing to the campaign of Herschel Walker for Senator in Georgia. Herschel Walker, former professional football player who is a real big stop the steel guy. It’s kind of like his whole thing. It’s like stop the steel. Vote me for Senator. I’ll stop–
ALEX: Like some of some of–
BOBBY: single-handedly gonna stop the steal.
ALEX: Some of Trump’s cronies are like distancing themselves from him like that’s that’s where we’re at right now is they’re like hang on you’re a little too radical for us.
BOBBY: Well, they know that they have a lawsuit current lawsuit in court–
ALEX: [52:00]
BOBBY: –about the stop the steel thing. Herschel Walker has that you know, impugned himself because he hasn’t held elected office yet. Uhm yeah, so that that’s the whole story right there. Is he committed to it and less than one year later, he was like, You know what? I’m back in on treason, I’m back baby. Give me some more treason again, I just I miss it so much treason not even in his own state. Not even in his own state, just going out of his way to tip the scales in elections 2500 miles away from him. Just because he can–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –and wants to–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –and doesn’t have anything else to do with his money. You know what–
ALEX: Treason for me and for the [52:38]–
BOBBY: Giants Minor Leaguers don’t need the money. Herschel Walker needs the money. Who else will deliver us from this stolen nation? Certainly not some guy in high a, hitting 285.
ALEX: No, but he will return five times his investment so–
BOBBY: I mean, that’s the fact–
ALEX: –that’s that’s why I’ll keep that round.
BOBBY: I mean, that’s known. That is an accepted fact because Steve Cohen tweeted it. Ahh Steve Cohen also tweeted at the Mets OPS numbers are terrible. Just look at them. And guess what? He was right about that too. Steve Cohen doesn’t miss all he does is fucking win. All right, your final Down this week.
ALEX: My final Down is just the comments that Rob Manfred made prior to the start of the World Series on topics including but not limited to the the vaunted chop performed by Atlanta Braves’ fans. It got to the point where I’m somewhat impressed at the amount of lies he was able to get into like such a short quote, and I’ll read you some of the things that he said right now. This uh, this comes from Chelsea Jane’s. He says the the Native American community in that region is wholly supportive of the Braves program. Program? Okay. Ahh including the chop. That’s we already have a lie there. Ahh for me, that’s kind of the end of the story.
BOBBY: Are we doing like the Pinocchio meter, you know, like PolitiFact right now. I hear live love to see yourself become Capitol Hill fact checkers.
ALEX: In that market, we’re taking into the to account the Native American community.
BOBBY: Okay. We’re taking them into–
ALEX: Not tha–
BOBBY: –not what they want just them their existence.
ALEX: Right, exactly. We’re recognizing that they’re there. I–
BOBBY: Found Manfred came and said, we’re on stolen land, we will continue to steal more.
ALEX: A bald faced lie but what he followed it up with was I think actually even more impressive like pretzel twisting that he was doing. Ahh he said, we we don’t market our game on a nationwide basis.
BOBBY: Ohh.
ALEX: Uhm, why?
BOBBY: Man, you ever just hanging out–
ALEX: You don’t?
BOBBY: Do you ever just, do ever just hanging out Alex, you’re the Commissioner of Baseball and you just admit that you don’t market the game nationally. Just chillin hanging out just admitting, you ever just go to a meeting Alex and you just say, I don’t work on Tuesdays, you just write to your boss. Never do it.
ALEX: He continues, ours is an everyday game. Okay, those are those are just words that don’t mean anything. But I respect that he at least broke up the the string of lies–
BOBBY: Bunch [58:32] game.
ALEX: You have to, you have to sell tickets every single day to fans in that market. I I suppose that’s, that’s true. You do have to sell tickets every day to fans in that market and all markets. That’s that’s the name of the week–
BOBBY: [55:51] just like to have a conversation about states rights versus federal rights. That’s what this is about.
ALEX: And there are all sorts of differences among the club’s, among the regions as to how the game is marketed. So this is this is him saying, “Look, we get it, we hear your concerns. The thing is, Braves fans are a little more racist than your average Baseball fan. And as a result, we need to defer to them on this one, they’re the ones buying the tickets, they want to be racist. I’ve said we need them to show up to games.”
BOBBY: The most troubling part of this is that that wasn’t even verifiable until they chose this path. Until, like I don’t think that that was true about the majority of Rays fans. Majority of Atlanta is not suburban white people, majority of Atlanta is working class black people. And the fandom of the team in the 90’s, when they still played in downtown Atlanta, was one of the blackest fan bases in all of Baseball. And instead, they chose to flee to the suburbs and play in Cobb County, which has been much discussed about and they opted into a certain type of fan. They catered to, I should say they catered to a certain type of fan that would appreciate that move that would feel seen by the team’s continued acceptance of the chop, even though they tried to distance themselves for a hot sec. If you’ve watched the last four games of the World Series, you know that they continue to except the chop. And now what Rob Manfred said might be true. But they also made that problem out of thin air. And for what? For for tax breaks to build a new stadium that everybody just like worships at the altar of because it looks cool on TV when you have a drone shot of it. It’s all a scam man. It’s a scam, It’s a scam. And the commissioner of Baseball should not be out there proving that before the most important series of the year.
ALEX: You know, you know who really needs to be seen by a billion dollar sports industry? Acolytes of white flight, those that’s the silent majority, frankly. And Rob Manfred is just giving a voice to the voiceless.
BOBBY: Man, if Rob Manfred doesn’t stop openly admitting what owners do, he’s gonna be the voiceless in about 30 years.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Yeah, Rob Manfred and Steve Cohen are, Steve Cohen are going toe to toe on who can get kicked out of the league first.
BOBBY: Somewhere Jerry Reinsdorf is throwing an absolute tantrum today. Uhh okay, my final Down this week is, wow. very convenient that that was your third Down because I’m looking Down now. And I wrote these notes earlier today and forgot that my third Down was the conversation that Joe Buck and John Smoltz had about the Atlanta ballpark Truist Park.
ALEX: Mmm.
BOBBY: This came in game five of the World Series. You know, I hmm it’s very invoked to complain about Joe Buck and John Smoltz, as it always has been. Much of it is earned, some of it is not. I think that Joe Buck in particular has done a good job calling the actual games, the actual onfield games. It’s been a little bit awkward when he’s talking about the sign stealing scandal, but how could it not be? I’ve said multiple times on this podcast that it’s impossible to talk about the Astros I don’t know why it would be any more possible for the guy who’s literally calling the game to talk about the Astros that must be a very hard job. Ahh John Smoltz, whatever the two of the two of them the conversation that they had about Truist Park and the surrounding battery area and the way that it’s been built up and the type of shit that is there, and who it caters to, as you just laid out. Just missed man. It was a it was a full on eyes closed. Oh two with at a curveball that bounced 57 feet. They literally said and this ballpark revitalize the area. Like they just literally the talking points from the people who wrote up the plans, the like construction plans and pitched it to the city council that then gave tax breaks to the Braves to build the stadium. It was all just like, you know, when like something vibrates on the same frequency and it just shatters. That’s what it felt like to hear me for for me to hear them saying, and it just revitalize this area, you can’t deny it, this is a beautiful park. And then not mentioned any of the other stuff that we’ve just spent the last five minutes talking about. Man, I felt like I was losing it, I really did. I really did. I shattered I was the wineglass that shattered when the soprano hit the correct note.
ALEX: None of these buzzwords just mean anything anymore. Revitalize? Revitalized, what?
BOBBY: If you can just say anything is revitalized for any reason? We revitalize the podcast industry?
ALEX: Yeah, wha–we did.
BOBBY: We did. No, that’s right, we did. That you agree that we revitalize the podcasting industry.
ALEX: I mean, I I’m listening to my in my headphones right now. And I don’t hear anyone saying anything to the contrary. So it’s got to be right.
BOBBY: Right. So the podcast industry has been revitalized by us.
ALEX: Correct.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: Great.
BOBBY: Just saying it a couple more times, so that it really hammers home to people, because that’s all MLB did. That’s all MLB–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –and sports owners have ever done about the ballpark thing. They just say that it revitalizes the the neighborhood and they never prove it. They never say anything else.
ALEX: Did you see ahh Manfred being asked about like politics? Is it harder to get politics out of the game these days? And he’s like, Well, it’s harder than it used to be. You know, we’ve always tried to stay apolitical. Uhh there was a notable exception this year, but our desire is to try and avoid another exception to that general rule. And I’m like, every action you take outside of the chalk lines is politics.
BOBBY: Yeah bro.
ALEX: Everything you do, moving to the suburbs,
BOBBY: Not like Logan Roy right now, dude. People are politics and I know politics.
ALEX: Are–aren’t they? Sorry, I’ll refresh my memory, there was a bill that went through Congress that had something to do with Minor Leaguers. But I don’t, I’m kind of drawing a blank on who who made the charge on that one.
BOBBY: Imagine postulating that your business is going to quote unquote “save America’s pastime” and then saying that you’re apolitical.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Just imagine the amount the the level of high on your own supply that you must be to say both of those things out of two different sides of your mouth. It’s gnarly stuff. Alright, can we go to Up at risk–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –of this podcast just shutting itself off because it’s overheating.
ALEX: First Up this week, we’re talking arm barns.
BOBBY: Arm barns.
ALEX: That’s right, PETA those laughably lovable, lovably laughable folks, animal rights activist says they are they’re looking to liberate the language we use in Baseball. And they’d like to retire the term bullpen in favor of arm barn. That’s their that’s their proposed replacement. The reason they’ve said that is that ahh they claim somewhat erroneously ahh that the the the term bullpen in Baseball refers to the the area of a bulls pen, were bulls are held before they’re slaughtered. It’s a word with species its roots and we can do better than that.
BOBBY: Which I know [1:03:44]–
ALEX: That’s that’s not–that’s not where the word comes from in this context, but I actually don’t care because arm barn is such a better name than bullpen. So frankly, we’re we’re at the point where this is like horseshoe theory where we’ve come back around where we disagreed on a lot, but we ended up in the same place. This is a good idea, I’m here for it. That’s it, that’s that’s all I got. I I look I I actually have the utmost respect for ahh what they try to do, even though they traffic more in viral stunts than they do actual activism, which is not this is not the place to have that conversation.
BOBBY: Reactionary alarmism.
ALEX: Right, exactly. But a broken clock is right twice a day, right? So here we are, PETA, come on Tipping Pitches.
BOBBY: Uhh, nope. It’s it has to be unanimous to be invited on Tipping Pitches and I do not condone that–
ALEX: Much saying no.
BOBBY: I’m saying no. Ahh my first Up this week was Zach Greinke, calling into a World Series game as none other than it pinch hitter Alex. Zach Greinke, game five, pinch hitter. They said to Rayfield, DH is dead, more dead than it ever has been, what a pro, what an athlete, an athlete’s athlete. Getting on first base rounding first turning to Freddie Freeman and said, let me get two more at bats. I love Zach Greinke so much. It’s–
ALEX: I do too.
BOBBY: It’s amazing that we just get to watch him in whatever this storm of World Series is between the different forces of the Astros and the Braves. And then all the reasons not to like either of those teams that are incredibly valid. And then there’s just Zach Greinke stand in the middle of all of it in the eye of the storm just like hey, “just gonna get some hits”. I’m a pitcher who’s gonna get some hits. Ahh I also wrote down underneath here, just the job boy tweet, just just the job boy tweet–
ALEX: Oh my God.
BOBBY: –about the about, the pitchers wear jackets on the base paths being the softest thing that he’s ever seen. This is truly hilarious. There’s like, if you called any Major League Baseball pitcher right now and said Is it soft to wear a jacket on the field. How you might find five that would say yes, maybe? But come on, come on real with [1:06:11]–
ALEX: What we do, what are we doing here?
BOBBY: Real [1:06:11]–
ALEX: [1:06:11]
BOBBY: Zach Greinke, we don’t need to get a DH argument because we’re already going pretty long. So what’s your next Up?
ALEX: Ohh, what’s my next Up? You know what we don’t have to deal with anymore.
BOBBY: Oh, you’re next–
ALEX: Most likely–
BOBBY: –Up is about the DH?
ALEX: The DH.
BOBBY: Oh my–
ALEX: We may have just witnessed the last Baseball game without a DH ahh without a DH, that was it. Zach Greinke put it to bed–
BOBBY: Cool.
ALEX: –I mean what better person to do it–
BOBBY: Cool.
ALEX: You know and look I’m not I I’m not going to get into an argument with it. Look, I there are, there elements about pitchers hitting that I will that I will really miss. I also think that if pitchers are actually good hitters, they’ll still hit, right? You’ll see guys come into pinch hit–
BOBBY: That Frankie should hit.
ALEX: I mean yes, you could you could do it, put them at the DH on his on his days off.
BOBBY: I don’t know about that. Ahh I met more like Maldonado should have the DH spot for him instead and Greinke should keep his spot in the lineup. That’s that’s what [1:07:15].
ALEX: I got you I got you.
BOBBY: This is so dumb. I I’m so exhausted having this conversation with you. Pitcher should hit, the DH is bad. That is my opinion forever.
ALEX: i Yes, I know. But again, I mean, if pitchers are are good enough to hit they should still be able to hit, right? They still can–
BOBBY: I still–
ALEX: –you be using pitchers as pinch hitters?
BOBBY: I still don’t understand the motivating fact. I mean, it’s happening in the literal World Series. So someone will do it. But
ALEX: Zack Greinke kind of feels like the exception to the rule. The the extreme exception to the rule.
BOBBY: Okay next Up–
ALEX: [1:07:50] worse than they’ve ever been. Let’s go.
BOBBY: Next Up for me. I’m just gonna change the subject entirely. My next Up is not about Baseball at all. But it is about sports and it was online. Alex, have you seen the video of the New York Knicks fans reacting to their season opener, home opener that the home opener double overtime win?
ALEX: Yes, I think I know what’s shocking about.
BOBBY: Uhh this comes from Sidetalk NYC which I had not heard of before this video was surfaced. They interviewed Knicks fans after the game, there’s really no way to do it justice. If you haven’t seen yet, I’m just gonna I’m just gonna play some select moments from this video.
KNICKS FA:N Double fuckin’ overtime? What the fuck baby. New York is fucking back. Knicks are here baby, the Knicks are fucking here baby. [1:08:41] baby. We taken it all the way. We have Toblasio, we had Cuomo, it was rough shit. But we have the Knicks. That’s New York, that’s right New York, stay down. Bingbong. Tell me that KD. Don’t you regret not coming to the Knicks, do you regret not coming to the Knicks. Lets go Knicks, lets go Knicks–
BOBBY: The reason that I put it on my Up this week is because I’m trying to imagine any Baseball game eliciting that kind of response any regular season Baseball game, eliciting that kind of response. If there was going to be a place where it would happen. It would be New York, and it would probably be for the Yankees because there’s a most overlap of fans between the Knicks and the Yankees. But I could see, I could see a little bit more of a Staten Island D version of that happening for a big Mets win.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And I’m putting it in my in my mind’s eye and I’m hoping that next year’s Mets team does something worthy of this much excitement for the fan base.
ALEX: I have to give it up to Knicks fans who given their the the this success or lack thereof of the team in recent years and their and their continued support. I are probably more self deprecating more self loathing than than any fanbase in Baseball. Say for perhaps Mets fans, and for that I have to I have to give it up for them. There’s it’s sticking through it.
BOBBY: I truly think we should interview as many Knicks fans as are willing to participate and try to learn something from them about the different ways that you can bully ownership.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And still love your team above all else, that you can just boo and humiliate James Dolan at every possible opportunity and try to run the guy who owns Madison Square Garden and the Knicks and the Rangers out of town and is worth like, 8 billion dollars. Try to run that guy out of town. Only based on mob mentality. It’s amazing what they do. And I’m in awe of it. No Baseball fan base can touch that. Not–
ALEX: That’s–
BOBBY: –not even close.
ALEX: –that’s collectivism right there. That’s direct action.
BOBBY: Mets fans wanted against the Wilpons, what Knicks fans have against the Dolans and Mets fans actually–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –got rid of the Wilpons. But the Knicks fans are still doing a better job of amassing political capital against their owner.
ALEX: Yeah, well, also, I don’t know that you can say Mets fans got rid of the Wilpons.
BOBBY; Yeah, [1:11:05]–
ALEX: Didn’t want to be a billionaire in the ballpark.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: In the in the market for a team.
BOBBY: Exactly. Which is why what Knicks fans are doing is even more impressive. We should write books about them. Incredible work by them. All right, your final Up.
ALEX: My final Up is about our President Joseph Biden.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: Who flew–
BOBBY: Oh, I know this is.
ALEX: –halfway around the world this past week, to tell Pope Francis a story about Satchel Paige.
BOBBY: Who among us.
ALEX: To a to a somewhat confused looking Pope Francis who I think wasn’t quite sure why he was being told a story about a long dead iconic Baseball player, although I’m not sure how much ahh how much Baseball news reverberates around Vatican City. But but he Joe Biden went for it, wrapping up his his 90 minute meeting ahh with with the Pope. He told a story about about Satchel Paige. And and his age, the the success that he found at his height and age, right obviously, Satchel Paige pitched well into his into his 40s and 50s. And found great success there and and still was managed to to be young at heart. And this was I think Joe Biden’s way of saying “hey, you and I were kids were young if we want to be”
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I would give anything to know what the Pope said to his interpreter after Joe Biden left.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Something like, I haven’t watched since they instituted the DH.
BOBBY: No, the Pope’s all about breaking tradition. Haven’t you heard?
ALEX: Yeah, that’s that’s true.
BOBBY: Yeah. The the Pope said that gay people can live.
ALEX: He’s a communist.
BOBBY: Ahh this is a really good one. I’m glad that you I’m glad that you included it. We’ve all been there where someone’s telling you a story. Doesn’t seem like there’s an end in sight. It’s usually with an older person, maybe uncle, maybe a grandfather. And you know, to your pleasant surprise, they kind of bring it around at the end. I thought that what he said–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –was pretty funny.
ALEX: Oh, it was I mean, I it it made sense. It was obviously a little stilted because it was through an interpreter. So Biden had to kind of pause at each pivotal, pivotal moment in the story, but it worked. I’m curious the process of how they came to to him telling this story. Like it certainly wasn’t an on the spot thing where he was like, I I have something the Pope will appreciate–
BOBBY: In might–
ALEX: –anecdote.
BOBBY: It could have been it.
ALEX: It could have been like, do you think his mind is nimble enough to pull that sort of thing out of his hat?
BOBBY: Uhm, no no comment. Ahh I think the main criticism of Biden is not that he doesn’t have a sense of humor. You know–
ALEX: That’s, that’s true.
BOBBY: You you gotta kind of have a dark sense of humor to handle the climate the way that he’s currently handling the climate.
ALEX: Ahh yes, that’s true or or not.
BOBBY: Maybe Joe is the the third cohost that we’re missing?
ALEX: Is is Joe Biden and irony, bro? I don’t know.
BOBBY: Ahh I think he’s the exact opposite of that. I wish that Bob Kendrick could tells the Pope some stories about, God, about Satchel Paige.
ALEX: Facts. All right ahh, enough about the actual President. what’s your what’s your final Up?
BOBBY: Actual Pope. Uhm do you remember the time that we saw the Pope? We didn’t know that we were gonna see the Pope and all of a sudden a man comes out–
ALEX: [1:14:38] around–
BOBBY: –their window and he starts speaking loudly–
ALEX: –looking up, what is everyone pointing out?
BOBBY: All that commotion, everybody pulled out their cell phones and their selfie stick–
ALEX: A cardinal or something —
BOBBY: –and then it was the Pope.
ALEX: –I don’t know Bishop.
BOBBY: Pope just started praying out onto the courtyard that we were in, he’s praying. That was fun. Ahh all right, my monologue this week Alex you know it is the final Up is that next week is our 200th episode. I’m both cheating because I don’t want to come up with another Up again this week but also using this as one final opportunity on the podcast, plug the 200th episode and tell you if you have a burning question about anything. That Alex and I’s level of spoken and written Italian about our many fun stories abroad, hanging out with the Pope telling stories about Satchel Paige, about our friendship, how we came to know each other our lives before the podcast. Our lives after the podcast eventually gets pulled off of the internet because Rob Manfred hones his team of lawyers on to us after he’s done worrying about the upcoming CBA. Anything you want to know really, please ask it. tippingpitchespod@gmail.com, tipping_pitches on Twitter, in DMS, 7854225881 to call into the show. Anything else leave the people with this week, Alex?
ALEX: Well, I’d love to hear if any of you listeners have have thoughts on what a Tipping Pitches fan is called? We never came to a conclusion last week, we had some people write in with some with some thoughts, but we’re trying to cast a wide bet. So–
BOBBY: As always.
ALEX: –that’s really the that’s, that’s really the one I’m looking forward to the most. But other than that, we’ll we’ll see how the next couple weeks goes actually after these 200th episode our CBA happens to be tiring as well. So we’re in our own protracted negotiations. I’d hate to have to find a replacement host ahh in the interim.
BOBBY: Which one of us is the boss?
ALEX: That’s good, that’s a good question. My mother?
BOBBY: Oh, wow. We’re going across the table from your mom. We’re gonna lose that.
ALEX: Yeah, we will, [1:16:42] my little league. I’m not going to–
BOBBY: She can play hardball.
ALEX: Thanks for listening, everyone. We will be back next week and enjoy the ahh end of the World Series.
BOBBY: Thanks for participating in our revitalization of podcasting this week. We’ll talk to you next week.
[1:17:13]
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya.
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
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