Alex and Bobby react to the news that MLB plans to provide housing for all its minor leaguers starting in 2022, wonder what that will look like in practice, and theorize how that will affect the continued organizing effort among minor leaguers. Then, they’re joined by Josh Gondelman, comedian and producer of Desus & Mero, to make a humble case for why the remaining non-partisan baseball fans should throw their support behind the…gasp…Boston Red Sox. Finally, this week’s Three Up, Three Down features an existential look at advertising, Carlos Correa apologia, and one more slap in the face to A’s fans.
Links:
Songs featured in this episode:
illuminati hotties — “Pool Hopping” • Ariana Grande — “just like magic” • Diet Cig — “Harvard” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and and and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about. It’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, I don’t know if you’ve heard that the New York Mets are currently in the market. Bombing the deaths of the job market, the dried up job market these days hashtag no one wants to work. And they are searching for a new General Manager or President of Baseball Operations, whatever made up role that they hire for and they’re having a tough time finding that candidate. Billy Beane said no, David Stern said no, Theo Epstein said no, from the heavens, as he sits up there and looks down on the rest of the Baseball world, he said no. I think you would be a good candidate for this job. So I put it to a poll. If the podcast would be a better podcast if you became a general manager of an MLB team, and 111 people made their voices heard. 111 people realize that democracy dies in darkness, and so they voted. And by a 76.6% margin. Well, that’s not what a margin is, by 53.2% margin. People think that the podcast would be more interesting if you became a GM. So first words that you say on the podcast, yes or no? Will you commit to throwing your name in the hat to become the ne–next Mets GM?
ALEX: Well, first off, I want to thank the Academy for even considering this. Ahh this is frankly a dream come true to even be in consideration and–
BOBBY: Be in a list with your man Billy Beane,.
ALEX: Right, exactly, we go way back.
BOBBY: Truly.
ALEX: I also want to thank the, some thank the fans for ahh, for thinking that this this podcast would be more entertaining if I if I held that position. And and I know that a majority of the people did not think think that because I would lend any any insights into what it’s like to running a Major League team. But but you know, the laughs would be good. I think I’d get to come on here and say I really fucked up our double A team today. Man, whoop, oh I accidentally added an a a zero to the end of someone’s ahh arbitration number. Fuck dude, I’m gonna get in so much trouble with Uncle Steve.
BOBBY: I’m paying the seventh catcher in our system $12 million this year. I just think the Tipping Pitches fans are looking for a boss that they can root for you know, they haven’t had one in their life and you’re their guy. How does it feel to be on the other side of the table?
ALEX: Right–
BOBBY: You feel good?
ALEX: –people to be rooting for me to be a boss?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: You know that’s tough, uhm I–
BOBBY: Problematic fave Alex.
ALEX: Very obviously I did I did not choose the boss life. But as it turns out, the boss life has has chosen me and so this this is my swan song as ahh as the pro labor guy on this on this podcast uhm–
BOBBY: Finally, it’s finally time to embrace debate.
ALEX: It is over, I you know what we’re going to talk in a little bit about uhm about some some wonderful news about Minor League, Minor Leaguers getting housing. And frankly, I’m not sure how I feel about it anymore. Because–
BOBBY: Because you’ve just been worried.
ALEX: –that’s one less free agent that I can go out and get now.
BOBBY: And you’ve been deep deep in the weeds of Alex Rodriguez, his youtube channel so you’re starting–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –to have some thoughts, conduct some independent research about how to run a business, how to really make ends meet, you know, balance that budget sheet at the end of the fiscal year.
ALEX: Yeah, you know how it is, we’re we’re out here every day grinding I will take all the input that I can get. My LinkedIn is popping off right now.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I must say, I just wrote uhm wrote like 4000 words on uhm what a what a positive work mindset really means and how that can improve the performance of your employees. Just–
BOBBY: Are you getting rid off–
ALEX: –by [4:30] manifesting positivity.
BOBBY: Are you getting rid of your smartphone so you can really ground more and authentic communication as opposed to cursory communication?
ALEX: Or I don’t know that I’m I’m the the Jack Dorsey type boss yet.
BOBBY: I hope that you’ve eaten in the last 24 hours.
ALEX: Exactly. You won’t find me taking any retreats where I come back having lost like 20 pounds and like a foot long beard. I’ll tell you that much.
BOBBY: I’d like to see you with a foot long beard though. I’d like to see you try out the Jack Dorsey aesthetic
ALEX: Wouldn’t, wouldn’t we? I’d like to see that too. Good thing my body physically will not allow that to happen, save us all.
BOBBY: Okay, Alex mentioned we’re going to talk about the Minor League housing news. Of course, we have a special guest Josh Gondelman, who is a Writer and Executive Producer of Desus & Mero. Ahh as well as the host of the Make My Day podcast. Ahh and then of course, we will do “Three Up, Three Down” at the end of this here episode. It’s a packed one, I’m excited to get into it. Before we do all of that good stuff. I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I am Alex Spacely.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[5:34]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Alex, my new favorite thing after the intro music is to do some housekeeping. Can I do some housekeeping really quickly? I promise it’ll be fast, promise.
ALEX: Yeah, we got our brooms out, baby.
BOBBY: Brooms are out, ahh brooms might be out for the Dodgers as we watch this game, down down for two, ahh down 2-0 in the series. Ahh we’re recording this live on Tuesday night, uhm halfway through the Dodgers game before the Red Sox and Astros’ game has started. But really quickly, I wanted to mention to people ahh this episode is episode 197 of Tipping Pitches, if we have done our math right. Chances are we haven’t, although Alex is going to be a Baseball GM, so we better get that math straight soon. This is episode 197 of Tipping Pitches, which means episode 200 is coming up. Of course, episode numbers and milestones are arbitrary. But let’s use this as an opportunity to celebrate the fact that we’ve made it this far. We thought that episode 200 would be a good occasion to do a full episode as a mailbag. So hopefully, if you’re listening to this right now, you will help us achieve that goal. And if not, I will go back and delete this from the archives. You can help us achieve that goal by ahh tweeting questions at us, emailing questions to us tippingpitchespod@gmail.com, or calling into our voicemail 785-422-5881 to ask us about anything under the sun. It can be Baseball related, it can be labor related, it can be socialism related, it can be unwritten rules related. Or–
ALEX: I’d rather be none of those, honestly.
BOBBY: It could be Taylor Swift related.
ALEX: Taylor? Yeah.
BOBBY: Really anything that you want to hear us talk about, we’re going to answer questions for the entire podcast uhm and get a little bit more off topic than we usually get on this year show. So I will be reminding everybody at the beginning and probably the end of each show for the next couple of weeks, so that we can get a robust list of questions going for that special episode. Uhh so thank you for indulging my housekeeping. Shall we talk about Minor League housing news now?
ALEX: Let’s do it.
BOBBY: If you’re listening to this, you probably know that uhh Jeff Passan reported earlier this past weekend, that ahh in mid September, Owners from the league’s 30 teams agreed. This is quoting from the Jeff Passan piece, “Agreed unanimously to a plan that provide housing for a certain Mi–for certain Minor League players, the lead said in a statement. Now they have not yet outlined their plan formally, but they are beginning to prepare to help house players across each of the four Minor League levels and affiliates for each of the 30 clubs”. So obviously the devil is going to be in the details here. Uhm it’s it’s going to drastically affect how we feel about this policy whether or not they means test the hell out of it. And uhh it doesn’t actually mean–
ALEX: You mean like by saying certain Minor Leaguers–
BOBBY: They’re already, they’re already–
ALEX: [8:34]
BOBBY: –setting, they’re already setting themselves up here. Uhm and I you know, a lot of people were calling on us to do an emergency recap podcast. I love that that people call on us to do an emergency podcast about it’s not like a big trade. It’s not like post to game five of Dodgers giants. People are like, let’s talk about the minutiae of the of MLB clubs providing housing to Minor Leaguers. Now, I will start by saying this is significantly better than it was a week ago. The fact that clubs are committing to this will make real change in a lot of real human beings lives. Uhm and that’s not just the minor league players, that is the members of their family, their significant others, their kids, their extended family members who are going out of their way to support them in their journey in the Baseball world. Uhm this will make an impact undoubtedly, how much of an impact that makes is still up to these clubs and still up to interpretation based on the plan that they come up with. Now having said all that, I’m going to assume that you agree with me that this is now they have now stepped over a bar that was placed lightly onto the ground.
ALEX: Right, well it is, it is solving the problem that that they created. No, no applause here, please, for Major League Baseball. Just doing them the morally right thing after doing the morally wrong thing for years, for decades, for for many Minor Leaguers most of their paycheck if not all of it will go to go to housing every week every month. And like you said this this ripple effect goes far beyond just the players themselves because they actually have the means to take care of their families and the and the people around them after being set up for failure by by Major League Baseball, the corporation right? We’ve talked ad nauseum about how, you know, they were, they were they’re excluded from minimum wage laws through the Save America’s Pastime Act. And Executives use every opportunity they they get to cut corners with them in actually providing them with the the the tools they need to let live a fulfilling life, right? Just a basic human human life. Like they’re like the rest of us aspire to do, right. And this is–
BOBBY: The flawed version of life in Maslow’s hierarchy. They don’t even have that.
ALEX: I mean, I think back to uhm last year, when the maybe it was this year, I don’t fucking know it’s times just doesn’t exist in my brain anymore. When the photos were circulating of the the lunches that were being given to Minor Leaguers, right? And this is ha–come up on more than one occasion, right? But this little slice of bread and the little, little speck of American cheese, right? Well, a little drop of an unidentified meat on there, one wilted piece of lettuce, right? This is moves like providing housing, meaning that a player can actually go and get himself a a real meal that is actually sustainable and will be beneficial to his health. So like you said, this is far overdue. And while I don’t think that Major League Baseball deserves any credit for this, per say, I do think you have to give a massive amount of credit to all of the people who got us here, right? And that’s advocates for Minor Leaguers and more than Baseball, and the the collection of media members who have been covering this over the last couple of years, right? [12:45] and Evan Drellich. And you mentioned Jeff Passan, Jun Lee and, and, and the list goes on and on. These are the people who are the reason why we are, where we are today. Not not the suits, up in the up in the sky boxes.
BOBBY: Yeah, cosign on all of those people that you mentioned then and then of course, uhm a more recent development in the last few months is more actual Minor Leaguers willing to go on the record, I think of a guy like Kieran Lovegrove, who’s at the end of his minor league career, by his own admission, but who went on the record with all of the gory details about both personal and professional things that had sprung up from the way that he was treated in the Minor Leagues. Uhm, you know, all of this comes within the context that most Minor Leaguers still make less than $15,000 a year, most Minor Leaguers do not sign signing bonuses over 10,000 or 20,000, or 50,000, or whatever. And that signing bonus is expected to last for six full years, which is just an insane understanding of what it costs to do things in America in 2021. Uhm, ca–can you, would you like to come along on my cynical journey of this, Alex? Uhh I’m glad that you framed it in this way. Because I completely agree that this is solving a problem that they created. Now, what purpose does that serve for them? To me, it–
ALEX: Okay, real quick, it’s out of the goodness of their hearts, okay?
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: As the resident GM, I was in the room when we were having this discussion. And we just looked around and we were like, it’s time folks.
BOBBY: What’s the right thing to do? Exactly, we can be leaders of men today. Uhm, no, what purpose does this serve for them? Well, I think in their minds, they think it takes the heat off of them. They’re like, alright, Minor League solved, right–
ALEX: Now, throw them a phone–
BOBBY: –everything’s good now, everything’s good now, right? And it’s just a, it’s a classic tactic that you see from capital from corporations from ahh ownership that you create a problem that you then solve so that you can play a mind game with employees and then in this case with the public because there’s such a vested public interest in all of this. But it, it’s no different than when ahh, when all of the propaganda was coming out about Prop 22 In California, and rideshare apps are saying, we let drivers make their own schedule, this doesn’t feel that different to me heading into a CBA fight where uhm public perception is going to matter. You know, it’s not gonna be the only thing that matters, but it’s going to be something that matters. They owners have known that this is a losing battle that they can’t wait in the public. And as more and more players have been wearing #FairBall wristbands, and you’ve seen more and more Major League players during the playoffs wearing this, it’s clearly something that’s at the forefront of conversation. And so I’m sure that they felt like they needed to do something to address it. That is my cynical view of the timing of all of this. And, to that point, I don’t think that we should take any of the heat off, I think this just goes to show that we should keep the heat on. Because this was something that Owners are willing to give in on, because they did it, once they started to feel public pressure. But something that they are probably not willing to give in on, the reason that you give on this you the reason that you quote unquote “appease” on this, even though that’s such a gross right way of framing this. But you know, that’s the way that they’re thinking about it deep down to their core because they hadn’t done it yet to this point. The reason that you appease on this is because you don’t want them to form a union and to demand this because then they can start demanding other stuff. And now that we’ve seen it worked, now that we’ve seen public organization, public protesting publicity, affect change in this way. I think that I am optimistic that if the forces in support of minor leaguers do not backslide that we can use this to spring us forward with even more momentum.
ALEX: Yeah, absolutely. Well, well put. And there’s no doubt in my mind that this was done largely to quell greater calls for better conditions more broadly, in the Minor Leaguer in the Minor Leagues. Including but not limited to a union itself, right? And will absolutely down the road be used as a cudgel ah to push back against actual meaningful change in other areas of the game, right? They can say we look you don’t need a union. You asked for these things. And we gave it to you, I the the the deeply cynical part of Major League Baseball’s ahh messaging around this was the the parts in which it was not even discussing the housing itself, but when it was in its statement to ESPN. About the the the news that they’d be providing housing they they also listed off the other laundry list of of things that they are doing to help out Minor Leaguers right now, right? They’re engaged in a multi year effort to modernize the Minor League system. They’re adding hundreds of millions of dollars worth of improvements to Minor League ballparks. They increased salaries, Bobby, for Minor Leaguers by 38 to 72%. That sounds so good, that’s amazing. They increased salaries up to 72%. That is, that is next level man. I wonder why it is that they didn’t put the dollar amounts of what they increased it up to, right? Coz 9,000 up to 12,000 doesn’t ahh doesn’t look so good. When you actually drill down to the brass tacks of what’s actually going on.
BOBBY: At least they didn’t put out a statement that made them look like Amazon when they flagrantly denied that their drivers have to pee in bottles while making deliveries–
ALEX: Uh-hmm, slick.
BOBBY: –to include the dollar numbers you might be getting yourself into Amazon territory there.
ALEX: Yeah, my my shirt saying that ahh our drivers don’t pee into bottles have a lot of people asking questions, etc, etc. But all I mean all that to say the spin doctoring really never stops with them.
BOBBY: Yeah, they’re like everything is fixed, everything is fine. And it always has been, that that’s like, that’s union busting 101.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: It’s like looking all this great stuff that we gave you. As if like they are these all powerful, all controlling warlords who give out these rations whenever they feel it’s necessary to quell an uprising. It’s like, guys relax these are these people are human beings working for you. Providing the thing, the literal thing that makes your product so popular, the players playing the game. Like–
ALEX: I mean, okay, once again, as the GM here I can personally say I’ve never met a Minor Leaguer. I’ve you say they’re human beings, but I’ve never seen one, have you?
BOBBY: There are no photos of mine. You can’t prove it. You can’t prove that they’re real. Uhm anyway, I I you know, we I wish we could have a longer conversation about what this means in the future. But there’s a lot of questions about that. Uhm–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –and we just have to see it, we just have to see what the terms of this are, we have to see. Uhm we have to see if it even means that they’re going to provide housing, or if they’re just going to provide some BS stipend, and it still makes it really hard for the actual individual themselves to find a place to live–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –now, organizations like More Than Baseball, have helped to bridge that gap, they find apartments that are available within a player’s price range or that are available within a housing stipend that More Than Naseball can provide. And then maybe now that Major League Baseball will provide, but that’s not really MLB solving this problem. That’s MLB saying we’ll put a little bit of money towards this problem and then let other people solve it, which–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –I don’t think is the resoundingly, I don’t think is worthy of the resounding positive ah response that it got, and should be called out as such.
ALEX: Yeah, I this is a cost that I mean, per a couple Executives in Jeff Passan’s article. This is an initiative that will cost each team a million dollars, like at most, at most, that’s that they gain that back in arbitration, like every year, you know?
BOBBY: This is why they’re fighting so hard for arbitration all along. Just like we needed to find the money for housing for our Minor Leaguers. So now it’s arbitration good, Alex? You the GM on the podcast.
ALEX: Uh-hmm, yeah yeah, no, it’s going somewhere, it’s definitely not–
BOBBY: Make sure you win those arbitration fights, do not let who’s an arbitration player on the men’s right now? Do not let Jeff McNeil get what he’s owed. For the love of God, how are Minor Leaguers–
ALEX: I said don’t look un–don’t look under my bed.Uhm iIn the box titled Arbitration Money, please.
BOBBY: Okay, ah let’s take a quick break and when we come back Josh Gondelman.
[21:56]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Alright, we are now joined by Josh Gondelman, comedian, a writer, producer for Desus and Mero. Uhm Josh, I’m realizing that I introed you in the intro of this episode, which is like you know how podcasts work like 20 minutes before you’re actually going to be here–
JOSH: Sure, sure, sure.
BOBBY: But I didn’t say why you’re gonna come on. So first of all, hello.
JOSH: Hello.
BOBBY: Thanks for joining us,–
JOSH: Thank you for having me.
BOBBY: –good to see you. Uhm I didn’t tell people that you’re here to make a case for why the Red Sox are not evil and terrible and awful–
JOSH: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –and why neutral observers should be actually rooting for the Red Sox. But first of all, do you want to talk about your relationship to Baseball and the Red Sox in general? Are you just like really in in the postseason now? Have you been following them all season? Are you like every single 162 games?
JOSH: I have been following, I’m not a 162 game watcher. Like I don’t have the whatever the Baseball app is, MLB Redzone? But I don’t I you know, but I check in it’s like a thing that like if I’m out doing stand up I’ll I’ll check the score on my phone. If I’m like waiting to go up. And I and I follow generally every couple few days, I’ll check in on the standings. So I have some Baseball writer friends that I have been kind of checking in with through the season starting about three weeks or a month in and just ahh everyone’s know, I’ll text them. Are the Red Sox dot dot dot good this year question mark question mark question mark. Because that was not expected, I didn’t expect it certainly. Maybe maybe I mentioned the players did because you know, I think to be a professional athlete, you have to believe in your abilities and those of your colleagues, but I don’t think I mean they were they last in the American League East last year. No,
BOBBY: Yeah I believe, no, I think they were–
JOSH: Last, below the Orioles.
ALEX: –[23:47]
JOSH: Yeah, very bad.
ALEX: Oh wait no, no, no, no, they did not finish below the Orioles. They were second to the last. No, the Orioles has a worse–no, no, no wait. I actually don’t know, let’s–
JOSH: Let’s do that. They were–
ALEX: –you’re supposed to be the experts here.
JOSH: Uhm, yeah, I don’t feel bad not knowing things. I’m not here to know anything. So and historically–
BOBBY: They did finish last, one game behind the Orioles how about that?
ALEX: Incredible.
JOSH: Truly Incredible.
ALEX: I know.
JOSH: Uhm last in the league. And that’s where they’ve kind of been for the last decade is just like a true ah sinusoidal wave of a Baseball team, just like winning the World Series and then falling off a cliff and then winning a World Series and then ah trading Mookie Betts and then ah finishing one game behind the Orioles. And so it has been a real roller coaster. My brief history of the Red Sox, I was born in 1985, ah so my first experience of Red Sox game I’m sure was my or of other Red Sox like history was I’m sure my dad trying desperately not to swear in front of me as a one and one half year old. As ah Bill Buckner uhm let a ball dribble between his legs. Also vindication for Bill Buckner, he didn’t lose in the series. Ah I feel like someone’s gonna beat me up. If I put it on Bill Buckner, and then I grew up in the kind of lean 90s where the teams were mediocre there are few players great players to root for. I I love the team, but it was also that era of like, deep in the curse of Babe Ruth as as your 86 inch closer. Roger Clemens leaving becoming a super villain with the Blue Jays in Yankees tormenting me personally it felt like and then 2003 I had to lead I was I was in college outside of Boston, not Harvard. [25:35] Brandeis but no one knows where that is. And my buddy Matt, who’s from Newton, Massachusetts, a shout out to Jen Maddie Francis. He almost fought half our friends. Because when Aaron Boone hit the home run in that series, and so, uh, and then I know for when they they won the World Series, ah great relief. I said to my parents, I think Grandpa can die happy. My father said, don’t let him hear you. He might get ideas. So it’s like a very ahh, it feels very, like germane to my life. But I grew up in the period where I think there’s there’s a great perceived arrogance about New England sports fans now. But in the time where I was growing up, there was the idea that that you you participated, in part because of the tremendous agony of always losing.
BOBBY: Right.
JOSH: I was part of the draw.
BOBBY: I assume you grew up in Red Sox country. You don’t just like–
JOSH: Yes.
BOBBY: –deep, deep self loathing. And you just chose this random team and known from Boston.
JOSH: Yeah, just choosing to be a Red Sox fan and as a six year old in 1991. Just like, I don’t know, Mike Greenwell was left handed that did something for me as a lefty. Uhm I grew up in Stoneham, Massachusetts hometown of athlete who endured great agony, Nancy Kerrigan–
ALEX: Mmm.
JOSH: –to, this is my parents very New England loyal to the point where my parents will not watch the movie. I Tania out of loyalty to Nancy Kerrigan. Fact.
ALEX: I love that I must respect to that.
JOSH: Deeply, I and I I love that about them. I think that is like I find that admirable. Uhm I think that commitment that staunch commitment decades after the original sin and the kind of public vin–vindicate, not vindication, but the public exoneration rehabilitation of Tonya Harding I find that that grudge be [27:31] New England. I am deeply from Massachusetts, I am Jewish and not in therapy.
BOBBY: I like the idea that like your parents are sitting there like maybe Tonya Harding will get some money if we watch this and we don’t want that.
JOSH: I think it was sweet–
BOBBY: If we see this movie, Tonya Harding is going to benefit.
JOSH: I will say, it is it is part grudge and part like a deep my parents are so sweet and they have such a deep empathy that I think they would feel like they were betraying hometown hero and Olympic medalist Nancy Kerrigan.
ALEX: Because it’s it’s claming up the character of the person who for for decades was thought to have almost personally taken a crowbar to–
JOSH: Sure, right [28:14] like–
BOBBY: Right
JOSH: –it it but it also feels like the Tonya’s sons–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
JOSH: –was kind of and nothing against Tonya Harding, uhm who I who I–
BOBBY: Who I know is listening right now–
JOSH: [28:27] Tonya Harding–
BOBBY: Tonya Harding thinks loves [28:28] Baseball podcasts.
JOSH: I I don’t think, I think history did her wrong. But I do think in the cultural rehabilitation of justified rehabilitation of Tonya Harding’s public image, it kind of happened without a parallel like, but there was a victim of a violent crime.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yeah, yeah.
JOSH: Yeah. And and she’s, she’s not [28:51] either.
BOBBY: Josh, you know very well, that society can’t hold multiple nuanced opinions about multiple women–
JOSH: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –at the same time. Come on, Especially certainly–
JOSH: Sports.
BOBBY: –not in sports.
JOSH: Yeah, exactly. Uhm, so that is kind of my, my history. I went way off the rails here, but like, lifelong Red Sox fan, and I was, I feel proud of myself for kind of tracking this season from the beginning. And and, and like, you know, I didn’t jump on just for the playoffs, but also, I live in New York City. So I don’t have a ton of opportunity to watch games. And there’s so many games and I’m back out at night now that stand up comedy exists again. So I haven’t–
ALEX: Yeah.
JOSH: –I didn’t watch a ton of the games until the playoffs but I was like, oh, this is exciting. And there’s a lot of players from when they were good before they got very bad, which is only three years ago. So you know, I’m getting to to watch Xander Bogaerts play for another very good team is like is delightful and like the Chris Sale. Come back from injury is like very, very nice to see. But anyway, that I I am excited to make a case for my beloved hometown Baseball team.
ALEX: I’m I’m I’m curious, before before you jump into that, because you are, as you said, a Red Sox fan living in New York City.
JOSH: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: Some of the people with whom you work very closely, happened to be diehard Yankees fan
JOSH: Absolutely.
ALEX: What is what is that relationship in, do you like, is it the kind of thing where you just can’t be in the group chats come October. Like the–
JOSH: We–
ALEX: –separation of church and state, you leave all the stuff at the door?
JOSH: We talk about it and because Desus and Mero, my bosses are enormous Yankee fans and I work with other Yankee fans and–
ALEX: Mmm.
JOSH: –ahh Desus and Mero specifically give me a ton of shit about it, about Yankees and Red Sox–
BOBBY: [30:41]
ALEX: No.
JOSH: –yeah, I know–
BOBBY: I’ve never imagin that.
JOSH: But, uhm, I mean, it it started truly in my interview for this job. I interviewed in November 2018, the Red Sox had won had clinched the World Series victory the night before.
BOBBY: Oh, yeah.
JOSH: I walk–
ALEX: Nice.
JOSH: –into the interview, and Desus said, [31:00] feel pretty fucking good today, because we knew of each other already. He and I [31:04] he was pretty fucking good today. And he said, yeah, it feels amazing. You should try it sometime, it’s great to win the World Series. And ahh and so that truly the genesis of our in person relationship is talking trash about Red Sox-Yankees. And so they were when the Yankees eclipsed the Red Sox in the standings over the summer. They were really giving you hell about it at work. And it was it was pretty brutal. Ahh and then this the first we were on hiatus for a few weeks, and then we came back this week, the show started with them saying ah congratulations to Josh’s Boston Red Sox. Thank you. I feel amazing. And they said, ahh Josh, we’re gonna beat you up. We’re gonna jump to you. And I said, shouldn’t someone here get to be happy? And they said no. So that is, uhm it is like very, truly, the Red Sox winning the one game wildcard series against the Yankees was enormous for me, both personally and professionally. I really needed that, and until until the series because the Rays were such heavy favorites. And because I’m kind of a casual follower of Major League Baseball, like I saw that they’re really good. They uhm kind of an unexpected story, it felt like to me, and and so I was like, wow, the narrative is really like the the Red Sox, who kind of pulled it together this season are up against this juggernaut, AL East leading Ray’s team. And so I was like, look, if if it had just been the Red Sox beating the Yankees to get into the Division Series, dayenu as the Jew say, it would have been enough. Uhm but then, to win that series now I’m like, deeply unhelpfully invested.
ALEX: Just like the rest of us.
BOBBY: You got the taste that yellow blood in the water.
JOSH: Absolutely, that’s what it is. They they chum the waters and now uhm it’s psychologically it’s very bad for me.
BOBBY: Well, I think that that means that it’s time for you to make the case now on you’re wonderful and uplifting and great to listen to podcasts Make My Day, you and your guests give a pep talk. At the end of every episode. Now, we can imagine this as a bit of a pep talk for the fan who’s kind of on the fence, the neutral fan, who thinks maybe they like the players on the Red Sox, but they just can’t get over the hump of rooting for those uniforms, those jerseys, those–
JOSH: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: –fans up there in Boston, who have become, you know, I think, reasonably it’s reasonable to say become quite annoying in this century. Uhm but that sounds short–
JOSH: It’s been like, it’s been a big century for us.
BOBBY: All that being said, let’s hear you make your case.
ALEX: For for context. We’re not extending this invitation as far as I know to fans of MLB teams. So you go as in as you want, if you want to trash the Braves, this is a safe space to do so.
BOBBY: I’m certainly not gonna let a Braves fan Come on in [34:00]. Absolutely.
JOSH: Let’s, okay, first of all, I like this team a lot. I think they’re really fun. They have a collection of players that uhm that are easy to root for. I think like Rafael Devers is so such a great hitter and so likable and like overcame how, how kind of clunky his fielding and throwing was early in his career. I think like it’s just it’s been great to watch him develop as a player. Ahh Alex Verdugo coming over from the Dodgers in the Mookie Betts trade which people felt was a lopsided. It’s great to see him uhm, play really well. I know I have Dodgers fan friends who are I’m not going to name names. I don’t want to put anybody on blast. Who are big Kiki Hernandez fans that are excited just to watch him. Say they have Chris Sale as I mentioned coming back from this injury that kept him out for such a long time. There are players through for and there isn’t that kind of like goofy exuberance of like the Kevin Millar years, right? The cowboy up kind of too slow. gimme like, alright, we get it, that’s enough. I think if it had been that this year, it would have been too much for people. But let’s quickly take a tour around the other teams playing, shall we? Ahh the Los Angeles Dodgers won last year. They’re from Los Angeles, neither of those things should endear them to the rest of America. I think that’s that’s, that’s on nothing against them. I just think they had their turn. It was last year. L.A. has enough. They’ve got LeBron, they’ve got everything. I say this as a resentful Bostonian and New Yorker, which is just like an absolute voltron of feeling less than compared to L.A. especially. Ahh the the Atlanta Braves, if people I think people uhm and this is I I don’t have me saying this as a as a white person. I understand the problematic nature of that. I Boston does not have a spotless record in terms of racial equity and equality. I will say only one team left in the playoffs has a fairly team sanctioned racist cheer that happens every game. Ahh so that’s that’s that’s–
ALEX: Every inning.
JOSH: –[36:06] can’t root for th–every inning. Can’t root for the Braves. Uhm the Houston Astros, ahh the most hated team in Major League Baseball, I think they’re the hate for the Red Sox comes from the hate of of Boston and Boston sports based ah 21st century cockiness. The Astros’ hate comes from, their team being ravaged by a cheating scandal of two years ago. You can’t root for the Astros against the Red Sox now that is on uhm we’re taking off mic I I I got started too early. But ah to root for the Astros is to watch ah every Batman film and root for the Joker. Just to be like, you know the Joker has a few good points and it’s like yeah, that’s why it’s a compelling drama but you don’t side with the Joker. Um all that is to say ah the greatest, I mean to me, the real combination of this this season and I think even the fan exuberance has gotten us some some really fun moments. Alex Rodriguez having to broadcast post game in like ah one of those things you drop divers down into when they’re gonna hang out with sharks. [37:15] booing him well he broadcasts is like, so funny. I can’t imagine they’re gonna put the booth the postgame booth there tonight after what happened last time last night where it was inaudible and they’re not only because of how loud the fans are because of how much they were cursing and true and just had to bleep which is just like beautiful comedy as A. Rod. sits there and goes, you know, I’ve always loved play good Boston. It just like, did you do do? Wow, it’s like I–cuz you know if they do it tonight, he’s just gonna snap and be like, Fuck Fenway Park, fuck Ben Affleck.
ALEX: I think, I think the fans had a JLo chant at one point going last night.
JOSH: It’s so spiteful. And ah it’s like, look, a woman is not a man’s property. Not a prize to be won. But I do ah I’m conflicted because it is very funny to make Alex Rodriguez feel bad as he broadcasts a Baseball. So that is that is my pitch. I think this is a and they finished last in the American League East last year. Nobody expected this, this is a classic uhm worst to first turn around. I don’t I’m not asking people this is my plea to your listeners. I’m not asking them to love the Red Sox enduringly. I think that they, I would I would be mad if they did. If they started now, I would consider them bandwagon [38:36]–
BOBBY: [38:36]–
JOSH: –and I would reject them. However, because that’s but that’s my uhm neurosis. But I think this season, there are four teams remaining. And there is one team that clearly deserves America’s sympathy and appreciation and rooting interest. And that is my case for the Boston Red Sox.
ALEX: Hell yeah. Give it up.
BOBBY: Alex did Josh, did Josh come on here and make a an argument straight from the Democratic Party platform, we’re not the other guys. That what just happened here on Tipping Pitches?
JOSH: I did I really I really was like, like the Red Sox know how to get things done. They they have this-
ALEX: A return to normalcy.
JOSH: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You won’t you won’t have to look at Twitter every day, worrying that the Yankees official Twitter account is gonna get us into some kind of nuclear war with Iran. That’s just that’s me the centrist argument for the Boston Red Sox.
ALEX: That it really truly does resonate to an extent the that they are kind of the, the centrist choice just because I throughout the year, have just not felt a strongly about them in any way–
JOSH: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: –you know, like, like growing up uhm and watching the the Red Sox teams of the early 2000s. And featuring some of the characters that it featured like uhm, like Dustin Pedroia–
JOSH: Sure.
ALEX: –and like Jason Bay attack and Manny Ramirez is right. All guys who very easily kind of leaned into the heel position, right? And it was very easy and even fun for myself and I think a lot of people to to hate them, right? They–
JOSH: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: –were really in my my mom growing up as a Yankees fan, right? It’s like it’s very, very, ah you can easily slip seamlessly into into hate for the Red Sox. And this year, I’m just kind of like, it’s like demoralizing. Like, I don’t know, I don’t have it in it. I don’t have it any [40:34].
JOSH: It was like a weird season to me. Because I don’t know like i–it, like they finished, what second in the American League East. Easily could have lost one more game and finished outside the playoffs entirely. So there wasn’t like, there was no like team of destiny, exuberance. It was like up and down, even right at the end. So there was no like we’re surging at the right time. We’re making this playoff push, it was almost like, please don’t let us fall out of the playoffs. And and as as a fan. And so there wasn’t like this kind of like, it didn’t even get into the position until like this week truly have like, hey our guys are making some noise, when it was really like, Oh, thank God, we’re not last again. And just like, please don’t let the Yankee fans in my life called me and go out.
BOBBY: Yeah, they are playing a bit with house money right now. Uhm–
JOSH: I mean, it really felt like that after especially after the wild card game. I was like, we–given the expectations coming into the season, they’ve so far exceeded that already that I feel great. And then again, once they beat the Rays, I was like I’m all in.
BOBBY: Uhm I I I can’t tell if this is a point in favor of your argument that neutral fans should root for the Red Sox or a point against it. But if Alex Cora goes to for two with a one year gap year in between two for two with two World Series, that’s like relatively historic throughout Baseball history–
JOSH: [41:58].
BOBBY: –like no first year Manager I’d ever wanted. And now he’s just gonna win it in the next year that he manages? I mean, that’s kind of insane–
JOSH: With, Grover Cleveland. Just like a, it’s like really weird, and I do. I will allow that Alex Cora’s involvement with the Houston Astros is not a point in favor of the the joy and uhm sports purity of this Red Sox team. However, as as someone from Massachusetts, it would be very funny.
BOBBY: Just yeah, just–
ALEX: Wipe your hands of it and say what’s gonna be the funniest outcome?
JOSH: It is, I mean, there is that luck again, as coming on the lefty baseball podcast to say this I think we can all acknowledge. Uhh Donald Trump one of the the worst people living in America. His–
ALEX: Not a, not a, not a fan here for sure, for sure.
JOSH: –not a fan, his statement on the death of Colin Powell. Kind of funny.
BOBBY: Topical references only here.
ALEX: Worse person you know.
JOSH: You were supposed to [43:02] a good boy. Yeah, it’s also uhm, gosh, we need uhm, we need a new one. Because because that’s such like an iconic Onion article, right worst person–
ALEX: I know.
JOSH: –just made a great point. We need one for like, a artistic or athletic hero of your youth. Just said thing that made you fall out of love with him forever.
BOBBY: Yes, that’s called the Mike Piazza endorsing Larry Elder and the [43:27].
JOSH: [43:27].
ALEX: Yeah, that’s called a Tom Glavine ah showing up–
JOSH: Ohh.
ALEX: –at [43:33] at like a fundraiser with uh, with Trump for for who’s that, who’s the candidate who’s in vogue right now? I can’t even remember his name off the–
BOBBY: Herschel Walker?
ALEX: Yeah, there he is.
BOBBY: Madison Cawthorn? I don’t know.
JOSH: Real bad, but I do. I mean, obviously that’s not satire. I just say what the idea is, but like, I was just thinking about that the other day–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
JOSH: –and like, worst person, you know, just made a great point is like such an iconic wonderful, like, truly great piece of American satire writing and but then the opposite. I’m like, Oh, that’s true. A lot of the time to favorite person in your life just disappointed you to the point of like, losing faith in the world.
ALEX: That’s true far more often.
JOSH: Oh, yeah, to be honest.
BOBBY: Favorite person, you know, just killed your last bit of hope–
JOSH: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –okay, Josh, ahh thank you so much for making that case. I I do wonder if listeners will will hear it and take it to heart. We’ll have to check back in next week. Thank you for joining us here on Tipping Pitches. Do you want to let people know where they can find Make My Day? Sure obviously they know where to find these the scenario where you do great work.
JOSH: Thank you. I’m @joshgondelman on Twitter and Instagram, joshgondelman.com. I have a couple stand up albums if you want to listen to those. Uhm yeah, podcast Desus and Mero. I’m Imran and I’m on Wait Wait, Don’t Tell Me! [44:47] frequently. Uhm so if you if you listen to that, you’ll hear me. Uhm and then yeah, just maybe I’ll be at at at the Knicks-Celtics game masked up screaming into my masks tomorrow night. If you want to find me there I’ll probably be there.
ALEX: Hell yeah.
JOSH: Thank you–
BOBBY: Thank you so much.
JOSH: –so much for having me, this is such a pleasure.
ALEX: Thanks Josh.
[45:10]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Okay. Thank you to Josh Gondelman. Tipping Pitches listeners, let us know, does Josh Gondelman convince you to root for the Red Sox? I I feel like no, but I could be wrong. Sometimes I miss the pulse of the Tipping Pitches listener, sometimes they surprised me. I was surprised when they said they wanted you to become a GM.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: I thought that we said no bosses ever around here. No GMs, get rid of the position of GM before Alex [45:47] job.
ALEX: Well, to to to to to be fair, to be fair to our listeners, I believe the question was not necessarily, should I become a GM? But would that make this podcast more interesting?
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: To which the answer was a pretty resounding, yes.
BOBBY: See, I think it would make it less interesting because you’d have to pull punches. And the best is when you just come out here and you’re like, Yes, I will fight John Fisher to the death with a broken stick.
ALEX: Right, exactly.
BOBBY: Like when the Joker snaps the pool stick in half and says whoever. Whoever lives gets to stay in my crew. Uhm, too much Joker talk in this podcast.
ALEX: Yeah, I love a Joker talk.
BOBBY: Let’s go to “Three Up, Three Down” instead. Hopefully the Joker doesn’t feature in this one. By the way, we’re recording this on Tuesday night, like I mentioned, Uhm Josh just finished making his claim as to why you should vote for the Red Sox. And they are now winning 2-1. And they’re up 2-1 in the series as we speak.
ALEX: Yep. We’re we’re not going to finish recording this by the end of the Red Sox game. And this is gonna come out later night. But ahh how about the Grand Slam in this Red Sox game guys–
BOBBY: Still freak–
ALEX: Wow.
BOBBY: [46:50]. Yeah, that’s a that’s a safe bet. A safe bet brought to you by bleep because I can’t say any of the names of sports betting companies because. Ahh all right, “Three Up, Three Down” let’s do it. Let’s start with ahh let’s start with Down.
ALEX: Okay, let’s start with Down this week. Do you uhh do want me to kick it off?
BOBBY: You can kick it off, or I can kick it off or–
ALEX: No, I’m no I’m just–
BOBBY: We can heard you–
ALEX: –talking, [47:13]–
BOBBY: –we can kick it off, we can talk at the same time [47:16] at the same time–
ALEX: -we can same–
BOBBY: [47:17]–
ALEX: [47:19] bad.
BOBBY: Your Down.
ALEX: All right, my first down this week. As you mentioned, we’re recording this on a Tuesday night. We are in in the twilight of game three of the NLCS as I as I say these words, the Dodgers are down 5-2. I do not know how this game will end. But regardless of the outcome, as ahh as the Dodgers have their backs up against the wall, and really regardless of how the season ends in general. My first Down is the end of this Dodger score. Because I have never seen such a stacked team maybe in my life, like over the course of the last four or five years, right? The core that they have put together has had probably the the most pure talent on on a team year to year that I have seen in my lifetime. If you think about, I you know, you can think about this year alone. And Scherzer and Trea Turner, obviously add to that mix. But even outside of that, guys like Chris Taylor and Clayton Kershaw guys who’s whose career in white and blue are potentially coming to an end. It really is, I think, a somewhat some somber moment? Certainly for Dodgers fans, maybe maybe less so for ahh fans of other NL West teams. But it it is a kind of remarkable thing to look back on, reflect on both the amount of talent there. And also the I mean, it’s weird to say that they underperformed but that they only got one ring out of it is–
BOBBY: Wow you’re just writing them off–
ALEX: [49:17] It’s done. One, maybe two, I don’t know that that that changes things necessarily. And again, they have sat at the top of the NL West for effectively the last decade, Right? So I don’t think anyone’s and they’re cashing their checks. I don’t think anyone is crying over there uhh in the Dodgers front office. But it has felt like such a consistent team year over year and it’s the kind of consistency that you really don’t see anymore from Baseball teams that retention of talent year in and year out but willingness to extend guys and actually add on to the the core talented players that they have. It’s weird. It’s kind of a bittersweet moment even as someone who is doesn’t consider myself an active Dodgers fan, as a Baseball fan, it’s I don’t know, what is this next Dodgers era going to look like?
BOBBY: Yeah. As the resident lifelong Dodgers fan of the podcast I’ve always been a Dodger fan.
ALEX: Uh-huh.
BOBBY: Always lived in L.A. my whole life, I’ve never root for–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –any other team and I don’t acknowledge any other fandoms. Uhm you’re right it is weird. It’s like ahh. Oh shit, Ohh shit. Cody Bellinger just tied it up.
ALEX: Right he did.
BOBBY: Holy shit. Wow, hold on I need to set by Luke Jackson tweet now.
ALEX: So a–as I was saying the the Dodgers who are on their way to a second straight World Series victory.
BOBBY: It does feel a little bit like Ship of Theseus question when you how many guys you have to replace before it really feels like the same era of Dodger Baseball? Is keeping Dave Roberts enough to make it feel like that? Is Clayton Kershaw the keystone of this? I don’t know and I’m not the person to litigate that. But I think it is just a feel thing, right? And if you lose Chris Taylor and Justin Turner, and Clayton Kershaw, which they cannot do, they have to bring Clayton Kershaw back, he cannot wear another uniform, he cannot make another team’s hat. So disgusting that I can smell it through the TV screen, and October, even when he’s not playing. That’s just we cannot allow that to happen, by the way, uhm, I think you’re right. Uhh but you know, testament to them for [51:33] get together until they actually won one. And it just goes to show you how hard it is to actually win a World Series and how I will say this, again, without mentioning the name of a team that plays in Tampa Bay. You need to put all the chips on the table to win, even if you are the best team. Uhh so you went to the Dodgers for your first round. I’m going to go to the Braves for my first Down. Alex, my first Down this week is the chop, it’s disgusting. And it should embarrass Atlanta, Executives, MLB Executives, Liberty Media who owns the Atlanta Braves, Atlanta Coaches, Atlanta Managers. Honestly, Atlanta players now like I’m not going to say that the blame is on the players. But if every single player came out every day and said stop doing the chop, I feel like you know, you don’t want to lose your home fan base, but I feel like most people would probably stop doing the chop. Now I saw Aaron Dolan, former guest of this podcast saying on Twitter that she thinks that MLB should come out the way that UEFA or FIFA has come out and said that they will start finding teams, finding clubs, whose cheering sections, make racist chants or do racist chants or whatever, because this is a bit of an epidemic in European soccer right now, and always has been. Uhm–
ALEX: Boston, Boston Red Sox fans in shambles right now.
BOBBY: Uhm, John Henry in shambles right now. Uhh, I don’t know if MLB would ever entertain anything like that. I agree with Aaron that there is more that they could be doing. Atlanta has basically cosign this, even though they’ve stopped playing messages telling fans to do it, they are still doing the drum beat that they can do along with, they’re still playing the sounds that they can do it along with. They are not taking any action to make this stop. Uhm, so they’re kind of in this in between period where they’re like, they’re not officially endorsing it full throatedly, but they’re definitely not condemning it. Uhm so that is my first Down this week. It’s just it’s impossible to enjoy a Baseball game played in Atlanta.
ALEX: Which is unfortunate, because they have–
BOBBY: Games have been good.
ALEX: –a lot of, ga–games have been good. And they have a lot of players that in any other context would be really easy to root for. And for all intents and purposes, are really easy to root for. Like would I die for all the albies? Probably–
BOBBY: Oh my God.
ALEX: –I probably would. I I you know, a few weeks ago, you mentioned Ronald Acuña Jr., right? And not being able to watch him this postseason. And I you want to talk about the future of Baseball? That’s him right there. And the fact that every single one of their home game home games is marred by this is is, yeah, frankly an embarrassment on on the sport. The fact that we’re seeing this on the national stage in some of the biggest games of the season is, I don’t know, requires a reckoning on behalf of Baseball, as you said.
BOBBY: Absolutely. And this is not new, right? Like this is not just a chant that they came up with this year. We’ve had years and years and years and years and years to reckon and they just haven’t done it. All right, what’s next Down for you?
ALEX: Next Down for me, is ahh is an easy one. This is this is on your bingo card. It’s ahh It’s Rob Manfred on the Oakland A’s.
BOBBY: Rob Manfred, what position?
ALEX: Booo. Last week he spoke at a conference hosted by the Sports Business Journal, which is always where you want to see the commissioner of your league, uhh discussing the future of the sport. And–
BOBBY: The Sport Business Journal is like this guy’s podcast, like you just see the raw unfiltered takes through–
ALEX: It was incredibly, he was very chummy with the interviewer like I, it was, it would have been enjoyable if it wasn’t so bleak. Uhm but uhh but the the subject of the Oakland A’s and the Tampa Bay Rays was broached in this in this discussion. He didn’t really discuss the Rays, noting that, quote, at least a ballpark is playable. Uhh but he went on to say that both the teams Oakland and Tampa need new facilities, Oakland is, quote, critical just in terms of the condition of the ballpark, and ahh, and that we need to find a way to get new ballparks built. And frankly, in some ways, we’re not sure we see a path to success in terms of getting something built in Oakland relocation is a possibility. They’ve been talking to Las Vegas, it’s gotten a lot of publicity. But there are options in terms of relocation. In addition, they’re not sure they see a path to success. In terms of getting something built in Oakland. [56:24] pass. I I can almost let that speak for itself. You the listener know why it’s Down for me. But you know, Bobby Wagner, we didn’t know–
BOBBY: No offense about this.
ALEX: No why it’s a Down for me. But once again, this is just manufacturing consent for the ultimate ahh departure of the of the A’s is from Oakland, right? This is people on all sides chiming in and saying, Well, we don’t think it’s feasible until the fans throw their hands up and either agree, or say, like they did this September, that they’re not interested in coming to games anymore, because of the constant threats of leaving. At which point MLB and the and John Fisher can turn around and say, well, well, look, you guys abandoned us. We this is why we can’t build a stadium here. It’s not feasible, we don’t have the support to do it. We’re gonna go look elsewhere, right? And it’s this self fulfilling prophecy, because they are ostensibly the ones who hold all the cards in this situation.
BOBBY: Exactly.
ALEX: And it’s, it’s, it’s really bullshit. I mean, it’s different leak, same shit, and uhm I’m really tired of it.
BOBBY: It’s just, we don’t see a path here such a way, is such an interesting way to phrase it, because whose job is it to chart a path? Who else involved in this equation is trying to figure out this path? If not, John Fisher, and Rob Manfred. Those are the only people who can chart a path. If I get on a city bus, and the bus driver turns to me and says, I don’t know where to go, what am I gonna do? I’m gonna get off the bus, like, I’m not going to be a fan anymore of the A’s if you can’t find a path. If I’m if I’m been living in Oakland, and I’m an A’s fan, I’m just not going to be a fan anymore of the A’s if they just can’t find a path to keep the A’s in Oakland, the Oakland A’s who have been there for 80 years or however long they’ve been there, I don’t actually know. It’s like, it’s again, back to our point about Minor League housing, you’ve created a problem and now you’re dictating the solution that you think serves you best in this scenario. It is truly bullshit.
ALEX: Yes, sir. Nothing changes. Okay. Next Down for you.
BOBBY: My next Down is also something that Rob Manfred might have mentioned or talked about with the Sports Business Journal, maybe it was off the record maybe was on the record doesn’t matter. My next Down is the just the ads during the season. It’s not every ad, it’s not every commercial. I get it, whatever but the incessant FTX ads, the Moon Blast ads, Moon Blast, not a thing. That’s not a thing. Uhm the gambling integration on screen about Walker Buehler strikeouts in the second inning, the loan depot ads that play every time you open the TBS streaming app to put on an NFL game. Uhm it’s just a lot, it’s just a lot. And it’s like a real., this society has failed long ago moment for me every time I see one of those ads where it’s like, I’m trying to enjoy Baseball. And it’s like, here’s this company. That’s the only way you can get a home. Like, dude, this is dark. And it just so happens to be the company that has the naming rights for the Marlins like–
ALEX: Right, yeah.
BOBBY: Loan depot, loan depot, loan what is a loan? It’s somebody owning your life, but it’s a family company that gives people rooves. It’s so bad it’s so bad and it would be it’s any it’s it’s just the nature of the ads that gets served to people and the society that we’ve built that have facilitated them. That is my Down and that’s a big one but.
ALEX: God, I pine for the days of just like a Carl’s Jr. ad featuring Mark McGwire or something like that, you know, watching the burger just fuckin rocket down onto that table right seeing each ingredient pile on top of each other. That’s not good.
BOBBY: I like ahh, I like Camping World, bring back Camping World. Good Sam–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –sell me trailers. That’s okay.
ALEX: Right, yeah. Where’s the where’s the Dusan representation that we that we really craved–
BOBBY: I want–
ALEX: –and desire.
BOBBY: –products. I don’t want like money manipulation companies.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: I can deal with regular old industrial revolution capitalism, like I’ve ingested that and that’s part of me now.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: But when it’s like, here’s this money laundering company. I’m like–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –yeah–
ALEX: Mmm.
BOBBY: –is this really who you want to be in bed with and the answer, Alex, as always is yes. Uhh–
ALEX: Really. It really makes you wonder what the ads are gonna be next, like once we normalize this–
BOBBY: Yeah, right.
ALEX: –you know, like–
BOBBY: There’s a Halliburton ad in left field dirty [1:01:21] games. So uhm–
ALEX: Yeah, coffins are us. Uhm–
BOBBY: What’s next down for you?
ALEX: All right, the last Down for me is ahh, damn Dodgers good. Dodgers are good.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –said anything I said about them.
BOBBY: With Jackson kind of looks like Fred Durst.
ALEX: The last Down for me this week is a is a conversation that broke out on Baseball Twitter this Tuesday afternoon.
BOBBY: No next, no more conversations for Baseball Twitter.
ALEX: Conversations from Baseball Twitter that’s where we get the the the best of content the worst of content–
BOBBY: That’s gonna be the name of my memoir.
ALEX: Content from Baseball Twitter?
BOBBY: Conversations from Baseball Twitter.
ALEX: There you go. This comes from uhh one and I’ll and I’ll say his name only because he was the one who tweeted it and I’ve said therefore is the one who has to stand behind it. It’s from uhh when Kevin Goldstein, uhh former Executive with the with the Houston Astros, current writer at Fangraphs. He tweeted, “Today I learned I’m the only person in the world–
BOBBY: Oh my God.
ALEX: –who says OPS like a word (like rhymes with cops or mops or hops).” I appreciate that. He gave three different examples of in case you weren’t sure after the first one. Uhh–
BOBBY: It’s sketchy how we pronounce hops.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: He gonna make sure–
ALEX: H H O P S. Ahh “Instead of saying the three letters. I will not change this and continue–
BOBBY: [1:02:49] proprietary information invented by Baseball perspectives.
ALEX: –and continue to believe that all of you are wrong”.
BOBBY: What’s? No.
ALEX: I really appreciate that many, many other members of Baseball Twitter chimed in to say what the fuck dude, but there was a not insignificant number of other writers who said, “Oh, yes, I do this to”, you say ops. You say, wow, this guy has an 800 ops. No, you don’t. I don’t–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –believe that.
BOBBY: I–
ALEX: You say tha–that, wow, this guy’s got a 114 [1:03:23].
BOBBY: Like what–
ALEX: What’s happening here.
BOBBY: You forgot the plus, ahh I agree with you. This is obviously wrong, you obviously say OPS. I think Craig Goldstein, I retweeted his tweet. Uhh stats, you say his words, BABIP. ISO, Woba, Slug, FIP, whip and war. And then all the other stats, you say the mess letters. I agree with Craig, I do think there is a little bit of a look in the mirror moment as to how we got there. Those are right. But why? I mean, I know some of the ones that you say the letters of you can’t really pronounce them like OB. OB. That just is not right. Era? That’s a different word. Ops? That’s a different word. I understand why you say those letters. But like, why don’t you say FIP? Why don’t you say ISO? I it’s just just a question. I’m just asking questions.
ALEX: No. Wow, we reached the just asking questions part of its. I became a boss and you became a devil’s advocate. It’s tough podcast for us. No, you’re you’re absolutely right. I also think that some of the stats were designed so that you could say them as words, right?
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Like something like babip, no one expects you to be like, so what’s his B-A-B-I-P? Like that was that was never a conversation.
BOBBY: I saw Lindsay ahh Adler–
ALEX: Friend of the show.
BOBBY: Been on the show, uhm interacts with the show all the time. I I hope that there’s I’m not slandering Lindsey or anything but I saw Lindsay being like, I won’t say BABIP I will only say “Batting Average on Balls in Play”, and I’m just like, you’re losing so many seconds of your life.
ALEX: Yeah, but.
BOBBY: I know I’m losing so many seconds of my life recording this podcast for three hours every week, but just say BABIP. It’s okay.
ALEX: I think people just don’t want to say BABIP or do people say that? Some people say BABIP.
BOBBY: So Jared Siler saying that he says, BABIP. A lot of people just saying bad takes that they have for no reason online today,
ALEX: Right, I mean, I, well, this is the thing where like, I mean, a lot of a lot of us just know each other through online, so you don’t you never get the benefit of like, learning someone about this upfront.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: All of a sudden, someone just like tweets and says, No, I say draw. I say loser, you know–
BOBBY: [1:05:45] Yeah, I mean, it’s tough. It’s tough. I’m glad that we met in person, our initial interaction wasn’t online.
ALEX: I am uhh, I’m glad for that, as well. All right enough, enough time–
BOBBY: So imagine if I saw the reason that we became friends, I saw your A’s hat and I walked up to you and I said, go ass.
ALEX: You know, more defensible than you walking up and saying, go A S so.
BOBBY: Go A S. All right, my final Down this week is uhm this is a quick one. I just hate how Fox mics their games. I hate the mix–
ALEX: Mmm.
BOBBY: –of their broadcasts. Sometimes the crowd noise is really loud. And other times it cuts out when the announcer starts talking. Ahh listen, I know I’m annoying audio guy sometimes about certain things. But why am I hearing the amp tell me where the ball is missing. If you’re going to force the case zone down my throat, I don’t also need to hear the amp. Tell me where it missed. I see–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –a picture on the screen of where it missed literally, it’s like, there’s a picture of it. That’s it, it’s just the FOX broadcast is. If you want to make a big sweeping claim out of it, it’s just another example of local broadcast doing it well all year and then the National Broadcast just not be equipped to do it as well. Just a slightly worse product. Here you go.
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: At the most important time.
ALEX: Sometimes the people who do this year round and are on the ground doing it day in and day out are better than the people who just swoop in to do it for like a week.
BOBBY: Just a thought. Uhm, alright, let’s move to Up.
ALEX: All right, first Up for me is ahh like an actual news item, which I think in any other context you may have talked about up top. But we gave Josh Gondelman 20 minutes to talk about the Red Sox instead.
BOBBY: Thanks, Josh.
ALEX: Such as life. Uhh this comes from the New York Post “Major League Baseball is in talks to launch a nationwide streaming service for home games without cable TV”.
BOBBY: Wow.
ALEX: That’s right, folks. You cord cutters have got something coming for you.
BOBBY: Your time is here, Alex, I feel like we did it, you know, you make enough jokes about Field of Dreams. You put a little blackout thing on ah–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –on the game where the ghosts come back to life. And they just feel the pressure they feel the heat. I’m taking full–
ALEX: They do.
BOBBY: –credit for this one. No one else has ever brought this up ever, just us.
ALEX: Yeah, you disparage the game enough and they’re like, fuck it fine, we’ve give you what you want.
BOBBY: It really does feel like, all right, damn, you could have it.
ALEX: Yes, I know. Now, okay. Yes so uhh the, you can read more details about this in the New York Post article. It’s uhh the the link is in the notes. Obviously, details are relatively scant at this point, it’s these are just discussions that are being had, although they say it could launch as early as the 2023 season. I will believe it when I see it. Again, reasonable streaming networks are not going to give this up very easily.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Because they currently have exclusive rights to broadcast these games. And–
BOBBY: Don’t care. Nope, I don’t care.
ALEX: Then you don’t care. And–
BOBBY: Let them fight, give me the Baseball.
ALEX: Absolutely, yeah. The NBA and the NHL are also said to uhm be interested in partnering with MLB on this. And uuh
BOBBY: Ohh, let’s go, get it all in the same place. Why not? Yeah.
ALEX: And uhh and then and then we’re gonna see then we’re gonna see NBC partnering for their ahh, for their, you know, daytime shows. And then ABC is gonna say, okay, well, we want to get in on this streaming package and then–
BOBBY: And collectively–
ALEX: –it will cost–
BOBBY: 129.99 a month and–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –you get they give you a cable that you can connect it to your TV.
ALEX: It’s gonna be so–
BOBBY: Wait a second. Wait, wait a second. Michael Belbin was way out ahead of this I just, way out ahead of this.
ALEX: No, obviously this is like a a net good, like for the game for Baseball fans this would be a good thing. But you know, we’re there’s a huge gap to ahh overcome for this to actually happen, but it’s a it’s a step in the right direction. Once again, public shaming works, bullying works, just saying.
BOBBY: More on this one, it actually happens. And we actually know the terms of it. Uh, my first Up this week is offense. I feel like there was so much discourse this whole season with the sticky stuff with the growth of pitcher development and the uhm the honing of pitches and pitch tunneling and everything that went into the do we need to move the mound back to need to make drastic changes to level the playing field for hitters. All of that stuff is still probably true, definitely true in a cosmic sense in the future of the game existential sense. But when I sit down to watch a Baseball game in October, and I see explosive offenses doing their thing, and it’s really hard to get out again, I think that is truly one of the most beautiful things in Baseball is when this is gonna sound cruel. But I know that you know what I mean, I know that let’s hope the listeners know what I mean, when a pitcher is just out there on a literal island, just scratching and clawing to try to get out. It’s just one of the most naked things in all of sports. And it’s what makes Baseball so unique. It’s like if someone had to shoot a free throw, to start every Basketball play. And I just like when the offense is good, you know, we’ve seen the Red Sox explode. Houston’s offense is obviously still really good. Uhm the Braves have been able to outscore both the Brewers and now the Dodgers, you know, as we record this, the Dodgers are making their big comeback in game three, but it it takes balance. It takes scoring it takes hitting I mean, I know this seems obvious to say but you guys score runs to win and those are that create some of the most exciting electric October moments, even though I love a good pitcher’s duel as well. Uhm I’ve been enjoying it enjoying the hits, Alex, play the hits. That’s what they say.
ALEX: Yeah, offense is a it’s good. Lots of lots of hand wringing over ahh rising strikeouts. And you know, a decline in fundamentals Baseball, all for naught, right? One postseason has changed everything.
BOBBY: No, not quite.
ALEX: Maybe not.
BOBBY: Uhh your next Up.
ALEX: Uh, my next Up is this guy. I don’t know if you’ve heard of him, Kike Hernandez?
BOBBY: Oh, yeah, Kike.
ALEX: So that’s it. That’s that’s–
BOBBY: That Josh got you, he convinced you.
ALEX: Yes, wha–yeah, I listeners will know Kike Hernandez has been a a longtime pod favorite. And, frankly, it’s so great to see him getting his shine this postseason and just be the absolute, blistering, hottest hitter in all of Baseball. I mean, at one point yesterday, he had more home runs than strikeouts. This postseason, like you’re doing when you had five home runs, and you have had four strikeouts. I’d say you’re doing ahh all right?
BOBBY: You’re achieving the goal.
ALEX: This is, this man is a one true outcomes king.
BOBBY: One of the waited runs created there.
ALEX: That’s it. There’s no There’s no analysis here. There’s no take. It’s just he’s a he’s a very joyous man who I enjoy and and like somewhat unassuming. You know, I mean, he’s not a massive star. He is not an ahh a extremely large dude. He’s relatively small as far as professional athletes go. And yet he is out here just putting the team on his back. Him and along with every other Red Sox player who’s hit a grand slam this postseason.
BOBBY: Yeah, Carlos were helps to. Uhm–
ALEX: Yeah. [1:13:48]–
BOBBY: JD Martinez, remembered how to hit homeruns? Ahh Kike is the best, I love Kike. This is a good one. Uhm we are a bit a little bit pressed for time here. So I will move on to my next Up. Ahh Max Scherzer getting his first career save in game five against the Dodgers’ rival. Ahh this was a really cool moment. Now, Max Scherzer has, he’s not like a Dodgers legend, he is not, I’m sure that he’s endeared himself to the fan base with how well he’s played. But from for an individual player perspective for him to have done all of the stuff that he has done Cy Young with two different teams, potentially a third different team this year. Uhm obviously the huge contract that worked out, the rare contract or even the ahh most neoliberal of or do con of Baseball media people have to admit that this contract was good for the team that signed it. Uhm and then obviously everything he did in the World Series run with the Nationals pitching on his throw day. All of that whole rotation doing all that stuff. Uhm I love to to watch him get one more notch in his belt of this–just truly absurdly decorated Baseball career that he has had to this point.
ALEX: It’s incredible because it started off so on assumingly, right? He really didn’t hit a stride and he was like 25-26 for Max Scherzer was on the Tigers. Yeah, dude, barely.
BOBBY: Yeah, he won a Cy Young.
ALEX: Remember he was when he was on the Diamondbacks?
BOBBY: No, that I don’t remember–
ALEX: I’m just gonna be–
BOBBY: –that I actually don’t.
ALEX: Yes, everything you said is true. Max Scherzer deserves everything he’s getting and, and more. All right. Last Up for me is a three part story. I know we’re pressed for time. And I’m going to make a quick I promise you, Bobby. I guess it’s a four part story. So I’m already I’m already lying to you. Ahh some of you may remember a few games ago Carlos Correa hit a towering homerun turned and pointed to the the dugout Houston Astros’ dugout, pointed to his watch and said it’s my time. Part two of this story, ahh Eduardo Rodriguez got Carlos Correa out, turned him pointed to his watch tapped is ahh tapped his wrist, indicating that it was not in fact Correa’s time, it was Rodriguez this time. Part three of the story is Alex Cora admonishing his pitcher for for doing that for taunting Correa back using the the the same taunt that Correa used–
BOBBY: To his.
ALEX: –I’m not even going to read what Cora said. Uhm, but part four of this is Correa turning out to be the good guy and saying, I thought it was kind of cool. It’s just the way Baseball should trend going forward. We talked about Baseball growing and more people coming to watch the sport. You need to have more things like that. You need to let the people have fun and the game should move in that direction, where you can show motions and beat yourself and keep it real.
BOBBY: Wow, Alex becomes a GM–
ALEX: That’s fucking right, Carlos Correa.
BOBBY: And the Carlos Correa apologists in same episode come on.
ALEX: This is a tough beat for me right now. But a tough post season for me really–
BOBBY: This is right he did the right thing.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: This whole thing was just felt like it was created in a Baseball Twitter lab.
ALEX: It’s literally did I’m ugh, we have all the characters here. It’s good, it’s all in good fun.
BOBBY: Okay, my final Up this week and I will end the podcast on this, is our 200th episode coming up. This is a plug again, Alex, I told the listeners that I would follow up again at the end of this episode. Ahh 200 episode is is a cool milestone even though milestones are kind of arbitrary, especially in podcasting. Uhm we already passed our four year mark, which I think is just as big of an accomplishment and we didn’t blow it out quite as much as we’re doing for this 200 thing, but uhm please write in. Please give us good questions to answer even if those questions are completely unrelated to Baseball, tippingpitchespod@gmail.com, tipping_pitches on Twitter. You can DM them to us so that we could keep a record of them please don’t just tweet them at us on the timeline that will be hard to keep track of. Uhm 7854225881 is our voicemail. That’s it, Alex, that ends the podcast. Do you have anything else that you want people to do anything specific that you want them to ask questions about?
ALEX: No, I’d prefer uhm as obscure as possible you know, if you’re curious like what are iPhone settings are. Uhm–
BOBBY: Light mode forever–
ALEX: –what we’ve, what we’ve, what we’ve wrote about is our like senior thesis and–
BOBBY: Ohh–
ALEX: –college–
BOBBY: –yeah, lets talk about that.
ALEX: Yeah, talk talk to me about ahh that about oil drilling and fucking climate change in Louisiana and shit. Like let’s, let’s get it.
BOBBY: Talk me about public space being used to create Basketball courts in New York City.
ALEX: That’s fuckin’ right. It’s gonna be a self indulgent podcast. I’m just saying, it’s gonna be pretty insufferable. So at least y’all gonna make it fun of this.
BOBBY: Thanks, everyone for listening. We will talk to you next week.
[1:18:54]
[Music]
[1:19:17]
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya.
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
Leave a comment