Alex and Bobby debate the merits of rally towels, then break down the last week in baseball, including a mighty Astros showing again the White Sox, the endless cycle of Rays “resources” discourse, the exceptional balance between the Giants and Dodgers, and more. They also listen to some voicemails about just, like, enjoying things, the virtues of losing your voice, and the difference between Thom Brennaman and Jim Kaat’s offenses. This week’s Three Up, Three Down features a modest proposal from Tony La Russa and One Weird Trick That Made the Red Sox Likable.
Songs featured in this episode:
Haim — “Gasoline” • Robyn — “Call Your Girlfriend” • Booker T & the M.G.’s — “Green Onions”
Episode Transcript
[INTRO MUSIC]
Tell us a little bit about what you saw and and and being able to relay that message to Cora when you watch Kimbrel pitching and kind of help out so he wasn’t Tipping his Pitches. So Tipping Pitches, we hear about it all the time. People are home on the stand, what Tipping Pitches it’s all about. It’s amazing. That’s remarkable.
BOBBY: Alex, my question for you this week to start the podcast.
ALEX: Bang, wow. Right off the bat. Hi, Bobby. Hello–
BOBBY: Hey hey hey.
ALEX: –it’s wonderful to see you.
BOBBY: Let’s do it. If you are sensing a listener, if you’re a listener at home, sensing a chaotic energy to this podcast, it’s because it’s on a weeknight, which I can’t remember the last time I really recorded, made week late after a couple long days of work. You know, Alex cracked open a beer, I’m still drinking a latte, as I do–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –later–
ALEX: All hours of a day.
BOBBY: –than I should every single day. Uhm, if you’re sensing that energy, that’s why. We’re throwing it back to the early days of Tipping Pitches where we just recorded whenever and wherever we wanted and released whenever we felt like it. Uhm, so I’m excited for that. But my question for you, is one that’s rooted in in the postseason. And it is, what is your stance on rally towels? Very controversial item but they pass out at ballparks in the stadiums.
ALEX: Are they controversial? I can’t I can’t–
BOBBY: You supposed to go along with the controversial element, Alex, embrace debate.
ALEX: Okay, so we’re gonna pretend like I this is a long held take that I have. And and this is defi–this is not a topic that I have not felt an urge to come down on either side of prior to 20 seconds ago, right?
BOBBY: I think–
ALEX: This something that–
BOBBY: There are not actually controversial. No, they’re not controversial. People just think they’re annoying. Like the terrible towels in Pittsburgh with the Steelers when they’re waving these yellow towels all the time. And I think that it can get a little bit annoying visually on a broadcast. But I’m asking you as a fan of the sport of Baseball, what is your stance on rally towels?
ALEX: When I am watching a Baseball game, and fans are waving the towels around? That’s fine.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: I don’t I don’t I don’t care, doesn’t doesn’t bother me. I mean, it’s yeah. Is it a bit of a kind of a visual distraction? Maybe. But is it oftentimes the, the most that you see fans engaged in a game? Yeah, probably at least they’re, at least they’re moving at least they’re cheering. My biggest, I think gripe with it is like it’s a it’s a bit of a hazard, isn’t it? You catch one of those things in the eye, you know. If there’s 40,000 people waving them around, someone’s going to get whacked.
BOBBY: That’s definitely the hazard that everybody has been concerned about at Major League Baseball stadiums.
ALEX: Yes, right.
BOBBY: That’s the item that might hit you and you might get injured. Ahh, I’m staunchly pro rally towel.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: And I’m glad to hear that you agree. Since every once in a while you throw a curveball at me and you decide that you hate jerseys and that no one should be allowed to wear them except the players you have to earn that jersey.
ALEX: This, you know what? A year the way that this is progressing a year from now it’s I’m going to be the one who cut up the White Sox jerseys in the in their locker room, right? I think that’s–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: –how this story is on its way to [3:32].
BOBBY: That is why Chris Sale is your favorite Baseball player of all time.
ALEX: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
BOBBY: That’s to jerseys. Ahm, I just I I asked you this question because I went to the Dodgers-Giants game four last night in Los Angeles. And they handed out rally towels. And I gotta say, it was exhilarating–
ALEX: E–easily entertained?
BOBBY: You walk in, and they just hand you something that doesn’t happen all the time. Usually, you walk in and you have to give them something, you have to give them a lot of things–
ALEX: That’s true.
BOBBY: –you have to give them money. You have to show them your ticket. You have to give them all your items as you walk through metal detectors. But this time, they started to do all of those other three things, but they handed me a towel.
ALEX: Yeah, in return they said here’s a rag for your troubles–
BOBBY: Worth five cents.
ALEX: I like I don’t mind rally towels. I also don’t know that if I was like I have one item to bring to a Baseball game that–
BOBBY: [4:21] towel–
ALEXL: –is going to show my support. What if it’s a white cloth, like a like a washcloth? You know, like who was i would i would love to be a fly on the wall of that boardroom meeting, where they were like, how can we get people more engaged?
BOBBY: Yeah, I do think we could workshop it. You know they could hand out rally clappers.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Rally megaphones?
ALEX: Might, kid–run into some trouble with that one if you give 40,000 ahh somewhat drunk people megaphones?
BOBBY: Well, rally kazoo?
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: That would really throw off the opponent.
ALEX: Right? You want to talk about annoying?
BOBBY: Yeah, ima–
ALEX: I would not go to that Baseball game.
BOBBY: Imagine it’s a 10th spot, you know, bottom of the eighth, base is loaded. I don’t know why I said bottom of the eighth usually people say bottom in the ninth In this scenario, well, bottom of the ninth bases loaded tie game and all of a sudden the crowd just bust out kazoos.
ALEX: Yep.
BOBBY: That’s right.
ALEX: Yup.
BOBBY: That’s it. That’s when [5:26] added.
ALEX: Uhm, I do enjoy that the kind of offbeat modes of engagement that fans sometimes use to ahh show support at games. Like when the A’s at, like at A’s games a few years ago. vuvuzelas were very big, right–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –and I know that wasn’t just at the Coliseum. But that was a that was a really big thing. I think especially like, it was like in the wake of like the World Cup. And then like Baseball–
BOBBY: Yeah then.
ALEX: –as fans, we’re just we’re just kind of like we’re gonna start bringing these two games to and they were fun–
BOBBY: The 2010 World Cup in South Africa was where they came to prominence and then on the international stage,
ALEX: Right, exactly. Uhm, and ahh I think Major League Baseball shut that down. Ahh, after a year or two, right? A couple years–
BOBBY: No more fun.
ALEX: –like, what you guys are enjoying this now? Take a seat.
BOBBY: Well, maybe they were maybe they were convinced by my argument that it’s too much of a competitive advantage.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Rob is just trying to create a level playing field, as always. Thanks, Rob. Okay, well, the Tipping Pitches is a firmly pro rally towel podcast. Ahh we are going to talk about that game that I attended. We are going to talk about the fact that we’re getting a rematch of the 2018 ALCS. After the Red Sox eliminated the Rays–
ALEX: Booo.
BOBBY: –and the Astros–
ALEX: Booo.
BOBBY: –eliminated the White Sox.
ALEX: Booo.
BOBBY: We are going to bid adieu to the Milwaukee Brewers, we’re gonna answer some voicemails we’re gonna do “Three Up, Three Down”. This is gonna be a fun one. But before we do all of that, I am Bobby Wagner.
ALEX: I am Alex Paisley.
BOBBY: And you are listening to Tipping Pitches.
[7:03]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: Okay, Alex, this is a bit of housekeeping, before we start discussing the 2021 Baseball playoffs. You’ll notice if you’re a listener that this podcast is coming to you on a late Wednesday night, early Thursday morning, depending on when you’re actually refreshing your podcast app. Uhm, that is because we had some scheduling conflicts and cannot record on our normal Sunday for a Monday release. So we put out a little mini episode on last Saturday. If you missed it, go check it out. It’s only 30 minutes, it’s talking about the playoffs so far. It’s talking about broadcast booths being racist. It’s talking about the Rays not spending any money, which might be a topic that might come up in the next five minutes, we’ll see. Uhm, but yes, we are putting this podcast out midweek and then we are going to do that again next week, just because of some more scheduling conflicts, conflicts. It’s October, our lives are a little hectic. The Baseball world is a little hectic. So after this pause, look out for another one a week from now next Wednesday. Uhh, that is my housekeeping. If you want to do some more housekeeping Alex, you want to tell people to buy some shirts, you want to tell people to go leave a five star rating throw them off, do all the stuff that we usually do at the end right here at the beginning.
ALEX: Yeah, well, I have to clean my desk–desk off too. Uhm I just went–
BOBBY: [8:27]
ALEX: –my room a little bit.
BOBBY: Yeah, I went checked my laundry before we started recording.
ALEX: Yeah, I mean, you can get a T-shirt. That is a thing you can do. We do have a store–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: —tiny.cc/nationalize.
BOBBY: That’s what a natural plug.
ALEX: What a natural–
BOBBY: We do have–
ALEX: –plug.
BOBBY: –a profile on Apple podcast–
ALEX: [8:46] review. You put one of those shirts out of the laundry, didn’t you?
BOBBY: I actually did, yes, I actually–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –did. Uhm, I was really bummed that it was too cold for me to display my Tipping Pitches T-shirt yesterday because I had to wear a sweatshirt over it but that’s okay-
ALEX: Uh-hmm, I was wearing it. I knew.
BOBBY: That’s that’s the way that they tell you to promote your merch wear it underneath a bunch of other stuff.
ALEX: Right, as long as you know.
BOBBY: Where do you want to start, Alex? It’s October 13, we’re almost halfway through the MLB Playoffs. Ahh, the most exciting stuff is yet to come. Where would you like to start? Somewhere preferably that’s not about rally towels.
ALEX: Fuck, okay, hang on I need to do some reorganizing my notes real quick. I think I would like to start with the fact that I don’t really know who to root for anymore.
BOBBY: Okay.
ALEX: The faves are gone. What are we–It feels like we’ve got a lot of behemoth franchises in this, in the–in these playoffs. You know which is is fun to an extent. It’s and I you know, Far be it for me to truly dislike teams who actually spend to put a winning product on the field, you know. I don’t know, we can’t exactly rail on teams who don’t spend to get eliminated and then say but I don’t really like watching the the the big spenders either. People will start to wonder our integrity. That said–
BOBBY: I want people questioning our integrity.
ALEX: –that that I do. Yeah, no underdogs, no underdogs these playoffs.
BOBBY: Well, it’s funny because like the underdog teams, meaning the teams that people would have picked to be the least likely to actually win or come out of their respective leagues are probably, the Braves who have the largest national fan base of teams not named the Yankees or Dodgers.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Mainly because of their TV contract in the 90s. So it’s about, it always comes back to TV deals, so it always comes back–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –to cable. Uhm, and then the Red Sox who have won four World Series since the turn of the millennium, and who have won as recently as 2018. And to are obviously in a huge market and thought of to be like a nash–like a historical behemoth. And also traded Mookie Betts and I don’t want to see them get rewarded for that. So you’re right, we are in a little bit of a tight spot but when you say that your faves are gone, are you just who are you referring to? Were you, who are you rooting for, the White Sox?
ALEX: Why think you know I was pulling for the White Sox tonight they were kind of I think the last hope in my book, you know–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –with them out I’m like well, I can just watch this and you know, I I put on my ahh this is where I put on my objective neutral observer cap, you know. Become a capital J journalist, capital P podcaster. Just sit back and enjoy it you know, let the games wash over you.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: 0 0 rooting interest whatsoever.
BOBBY: You root for the Baseball?
ALEX: Yeah, I root for a for a good game. Day in and day in and day out, you know.
BOBBY: Well I, Alex, I root for the content which is why I chose Dodgers-Astros rematch as my prediction for the 2021 World Series. I guess that is still alive still in place at the Dodgers win game five tomorrow. Uhm, we si–since your fav the a, the White Sox are gone. Let’s use that as an opportunity to just talk about the Astros really quickly because I feel like that series–
ALEX: Not even the White Sox. Since the White Sox are gone.
BOBBY: No since–since the White Sox are gone. Let’s use it as a as an opportunity to talk about the Astros advancing, I should say–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –that series in general because I feel like that’s the easiest one to talk about. We don’t always get tidy narratives in the playoffs, but I feel I feel justified in saying that this narrative is as tidy as it gets that the Astros were just the better team.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: In every facet, they they came out they they pitched relatively well for a team that’s that pitching is no longer their strong suit in the way that it was the last time we saw the Astros make deep runs with you know Verlander and Gerrit Cole and Greinke, a little bit younger version of Zach Greinke. Uhm, and then of–of course, the lineup came out and just absolutely mashed. Uhm, I’m going to talk a little bit later in my “Three Up, Three Down about some of the controversy of–around that production at home versus on the road. But without getting too far ahead of ourselves. I do think that whether it be because neutral fans or neutral media or whatever, or National Media we’re not watching as much Astros because they play a little later frequently on the west coast, or because they’ve been around for so long. Or because like I said they don’t have the top tier starting pitching that makes headlines. I do think that they came into October, very underrated, somehow very underrated a team with, you know, Correa, Altuve, and Bregman, the same as the same, a similar core to the one that won them the World Series in 2017 and got them back in 2019. Uhm, they just looked to be in a different class than the White Sox, the team that was really good all season and has an incredible amount of talent and who a lot of people had talked themselves into being a world, a legitimate World Series contender and they did not look like one against Houston.
ALEX: No, although they were still put out they still put out a pretty respectable performance that was largely ahh the ahh you know, Mr. Professional Manager over here. Uhm, you know, the one that they brought in because he’s like a he’s like a real players manager–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –like they bring him in, not because he’s ahh not because he’s ahh a sparkplug or because everyone loves him, but because when it when it comes down to brass tacks, when the game’s on the line, he you know, he’s been there before,–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –he’s been in the playoffs. He knows how to make the moves, like, like leaving in your starters for too long, right? Like that’s, I mean, tried and tested, this works. We’ve seen it work uhm ahh many times in the past. That’s why just this past week, we talked about how we’re seeing managers leave starting pitchers in for far too long over and over again. I actually I kind of appreciate Tony La Russa you know–
BOBBY: Yeah, he’s like who brought me here–
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: I’m gonna isolate that audio of you saying that you appreciate Tony La Russa, I’m just gonna drop that into our outro?
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: “Tipping Pitches, this is the one that I love the most. I appreciate Tony La Russa.”
ALEX: Nah, I’ve made my bed.
BOBBY: No, I I don’t think that–
ALEX: Yeah–
BOBBY: –the White Sox looked bad. They didn’t look like a bad team. But they did not look like a World Series team, when lined up against a team that we know is World Series caliber because they’ve won one and made another one or at least a lineup that we know is they just looked a little bit overmatched. And that’s not to say that their core is not one that could still lead them to a World Series. I do think that they need to make significant approved improvements to their rotation depth. Because Dallas Keuchel fell off a cliff. And they didn’t really have another plan for that, especially when you factor in that Carlos Rodón was coming off of a shoulder injury, which he seems to have a lot of, you know, either nagging or serious injuries that keep him out for an entire season. He missed most of last year. Uhm, he’s a phenomenal pitcher, but from a team construction level. Those are really big question marks to have going into a series against a team that up and down the lineup one through nine just matches,
ALEX: Especially going into next year, you have this question marks around Keuchel, Rodón is going to be a free agent. Like there’s there are certainly some holes to plug if they actually want to–which like, the rest of the AL Central would be happy to, you know, part of the see for them to let them [16:52] to the playoffs, right? And I think they shouldn’t–
BOBBY: [16:54]
ALEX: –they did on their Laurels. Right, exactly they did–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –that will continue to be the case. There’s not as, it doesn’t look like there’s a strong ahh overpowering contender, I’ll say right. The Twins can hang, the Guardians can hang if they really want to, which is I guess the–
BOBBY: Larger question.
ALEX: –another question.
BOBBY: Yeah, but I I think that it’s nice to get a taste of Luis Robert in the playoffs. Uhm, I know that we got that last year. But he I if I remember correctly, he was just coming back from an injury and he wasn’t quite fully formed. MVP contender, Luis Robert, that he, I think justifiably is now. Uhm, I’ll be interested to see what he can put together over the course of hopefully a 162 game season next year. Uhm, wishing him more health than he was able to have this year and that whole team more health than they were able to have this year. They missed significant amounts of time from basically all of their best players in their lineup. And so it never really jelled for them. Uhm, they looked like they were not in the correct gear. Can I use any more cliches that announcers or media people love to say? They they could–
ALEX: Yeah, I mean [18:07]–
BOBBY: [18:08]
ALEX: –then the White Sox are playing checkers–
BOBBY: That’s right.
ALEX: you know.
BOBBY: That’s right. Okay, anything else to say about your beloved White Sox? It’s unfortunate, they were clearly the best looking team in the American League. We no–longer get to look at them. We no longer get to appreciate the fact that they’re all wearing three different un–three different buttons undone.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: We’re going to be missing that for the rest of the playoffs.
ALEX: Yeah, certainly there’s a uhm, there’s a swagger vacuum that has that has been created with their exit.
BOBBY: Yes, and and despite what I said about the Astros yesterday, displaying some on field gameplay swagger, they don’t have the like, we don’t have the same kind of swagger that the White Sox have. They have swagger because they’re getting hits they’re confident.
ALEX: Because they’re really good at Baseball.
BOBBY: Yeah–
ALEX: They don’t have like general world swagger–
BOBBY: They don’t have–
ALEX: No.
BOBBY: –swagger in their daily lives in fact I think that they are all intensely swagger less.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: The Astro’s players.
ALEX: Well and I think their swagger has been that we should see how much how many times we can say this this word uhm–
BOBBY: Like a sip every time.
ALEX: Like was slowly kind of, I think left to the left to the building. As the the cheating scandal unfolded, and they acted like they were the ones with a chip on your shoulders. And it’s like guys, you’re still one of the top five teams in Major League Baseball, it’s fine. And I know that I know we’re going to talk more about probably some ahh certain accusations later on so we don’t have to get too far into it. But later-
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX –it’s okay with–you guys can take take the heat, it’s fine.
BOBBY: Uhm, let’s go to the other series in the AL that wrapped up as well. Red Sox eliminated the Rays in four games. Of course, people know our feelings. About the Rays and we’ve made them known. Uhm, we alluded a little bit to our feelings about the Red Sox and how they’re not quite as uhm exciting to cheer for as if a different underdog team had eliminated the Rays, but that’s okay. Ahh we’re hoping to have a special guest next week to explain to us why actually rooting for the Red Sox is good and fun. Uhm I I want to use that out too much, because we’re still we’re still waiting to do that interview. But we should talk about the Rays. And we should talk about the discourse surrounding the Rays early exit. Uhh, which I and I mean you to a lesser extent, but especially me, I’m a big part of because I took immediately to Twitter, to share my to make my opinion known about how funny it is that the Rays were bounced early, and failed to failed to cash in on all of their success and regular season success. And, you know, I think goodwill among a certain media type, who is shocked at how well they do with quote unquote, “limited resources” every year. I just thought it was funny that they got bounced in the first round, Alex. But instead of rehashing the entire conversation that we had, even before they got eliminated, even before they were down in the series, on Saturday morning, I just want to start this conversation from a place that we can mutually agree is sane. Are you okay with that?
ALEX: I’m, of course.
BOBBY: We’re we’re trying to win the World Series, right? Just statement. Teams are–
ALEX: –trying to win–
BOBBY: –the World Series. That’s the goal, right?
ALEX: I mean, at face value. Sure. In theory, yes, that is the point of Baseball.
BOBBY: Not like not like the front, not like the Owner is trying–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –to win the World Series, the team–
ALEX: But these are what–
BOBBY: –the Players–
ALEX: –are going for.
BOBBY: –the Coaches, the Baseball Development, the GM thinks tha–that is the goal, right? Or at least agrees that that is a goal that they would like to achieve every year that they are putting a good team on the field and not rebuilding, right? That we can start from that point of conversation, right?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And winning in the regular season doesn’t absolve you of not achieving that goal.
ALEX: Seems like you’re ahh–
BOBBY: Leading the witness?
ALEX: –[22:08] here.
BOBBY: Because as soon as the Rays were bounced, we had a lot of people being like, man, people are going to use this in a bad faith way to say that the Rays aren’t good. Or people are going to use this in a bad faith way to say that analytics don’t work in the postseason, or people are going to use this in a bad faith way to act like the playoffs are actually predictive in a way that they’re not because they’re such a small sample size. I agree with all of those people whose knee jerk reaction to was to be like, this is going to be terrible, people are gonna dunk all over the Rays and analytics and everything. That isn’t my criticism of the Rays. Of course, they’re good. They did win 100 games, they have won the most games of any team in the American League for the last three years. But we have to also, at the same time, hold the idea in our head that the playoffs are a measure of something. And it’s a measure of something that the teams think is valid, because they call it a failure when they get eliminated or when they don’t win. And so I’m not indicting the fact that the Rays are not a good team, that what they’ve done, in terms of turning players into what they’ve turned them into is not impressive. I acknowledge all of that. But the fact that they have been able to do that is the reason I’m so frustrated, when they show up to the playoffs. And they get bounced because they were cheap, 365 days in advance, or 180 days in advance at the trade deadline. That is my specific criticism of the Rays, they are intentionally holding themselves back so that they can convince the world that they don’t have enough money to spend on players. So that the world then accepts that and is okay with it when they never spend money on players in the future. It’s like a self fulfilling prophecy with them.
ALEX: Right. You’re already setting the boundaries in which you can play, right? And that is to say that, well, we only have X amount of money. We can’t even fathom a world in which we have more than that, because we’re just telling you we don’t.
BOBBY: Exactly, and I think two things are true at the same time. I think that if they played the Red Sox in a seven game series, they probably still would have found a way to win, or if they played the Red Sox 15 times or however many times you think is a predictive sample. I think they were a better team than the Red Sox. But I think that they also lost in this specific series to the Red Sox, because they did not show up with the best team that they could have put together because of money. It wasn’t because of injury. Even though Tyler, not having Tyler Glasnow hurt that’s part of Baseball teams lose pitchers all of the time. They lost game four, and got eliminated on the road against their division rival the Red Sox, because they threw Shane McClanahan in relief on short rest. Two things he has never done in his professional career. He’s a rookie who got called up earlier this season, and he gave up five runs, and they lost the game because of those five runs. Now you can say, if they had resigned to Charlie Morton, he might have blown up in game four too. You can say if they hadn’t salary dumped Rich Hill, he might have blown up in game four too. All of that stuff is hypothetical. I’m just talking about what’s real and what actually happened at the Rays cheaped out and they lost because of it. They didn’t have a starting rotation that they were confident enough to throw in trust against a very good Red Sox offense. And they came back to bite them in the ass. Everything else about analytics don’t work in the in the postseason. None of that. That’s all bullshit. That’s that’s all bad faith arguing.
ALEX: Yeah, uninterested in litigating that.
BOBBY: Yes, completely uninterested in litigating that. But not calling out that narrative is how we create unimpeachable figures like Billy Beane, because this happened to you, this happens to the A’s. We now have a guy who we’re not allowed to criticize, and Billy Beane or who you are considered to be, like fringe radical. If you think Billy Beane is actually bad. Just because people were like, amazed by that what they did, as a front office with a little amount of money, with limited resources. And I just don’t think we need to compliment the Rays, when they get eliminated. We don’t, we we are allowed to think it’s funny, we are allowed to make fun of the fact that they lost because they are so dead set on winning in only this way. And if we’re not allowed to say that, then we’re just going to get more and more teams, putting the front office on a pedestal in the way that the A’s have, and the A’s still have nothing to show for it. And and we’ve talked a ton on the show about that, about how, yes you might be able to cobble together something over the course of 162 games season. But by limiting yourself, you are not giving yourself a good enough if any chance to actually win a World Series, which as I stated in my leading question at the beginning of this rant, is still the goal is still the goal that good teams judge themselves by because October for all you can say about the playoffs being a crapshoot. It still is reality. Like they still do play the games. Yes, it’s a crapshoot and maybe the best team doesn’t win every year. But if you really are the best team in the best version of yourselves, you should eventually come out with a World Series, eventually, over a long enough sample size. And until the Rays do that, I just don’t believe that this method of doing it showing up to October every year with a worst version of yourself can win you a World Series.
ALEX: Like drop? I largely agree with everything you’re saying. Although I don’t know that the measure is even whether or not you win a World Series, right? Because if the Rays do this, and win a World Series by doing it, right? If the Rays win last year, the Rays win this year. That does not run counter to the point I think that either of us is trying to make which is that they are exploiting an economic system that disadvantages players and advantages. Front office’s, Owners who who know how to bend the system to their benefit, right? And I think there is a, there’s kind of a disconnect in this conversation. Uhm, and a lot of times it’s framed as like, you know, you have pro Rays people who are saying, well, what they’re doing is what they’re doing works. And so therefore it’s good. Versus, you know, the anti anti Rays people who are ostensibly saying well, what, what they’re doing works, but it’s not good enough, or it’s just bad, or I just like I don’t like the way that that it plays out or–and I think that that’s the wrong framing of the of this side of the argument, which is starts not from whether or not what the Rays do succeeds, but starts from what the Rays are doing is is bad. What they are doing is operating in bad faith, even though it works sometimes, even though they have a really good Scouting Department and player Development Department, right? Even though they’re really good at identifying these undervalued players. That doesn’t absolve them, of the fact that they’re still owned by a a billionaire who can afford to actually add to this on field product, right? So it’s, and I think that a lot of, you know, kind of professional Baseball media people kind of like to forget that the second part that the economics part of it and say, Well, if it works, what’s what’s wrong, right? What they’re doing is is winning them games and it’s getting them into the playoffs, and the playoffs are a crapshoot one day they win the World Series, yes, that’s true. I agree with that. What the Rays do by and large, like, you know, they, they won the division this year, they won the most games in their franchise history, right? My my gripe is is not with the idea that like, the Rays are good or the Rays are not good, but rather that by accepting the world that they are creating, you are giving cover to more teams to do this down the road. You are you are you are setting yourself up for for failure. And that’s so important, especially with a CBA expiring, right? And this sort of thing, as the ahh you know, one of the big topics of conversation, right? Is how to get teams to spend by valorizing teams that don’t, you are, I don’t know, inherently taking aside, and it’s not pro player.
BOBBY: Yes, I, I agree. But take pro player versus pro owner out of this because that is its own fraught argument as to whether media people think that they should be a pro player, even though we sit here as two media, people who are obviously pro player and who have made that stance, known over and over again. Uhm, take the larger CBA fight out of it. And let’s talk about just the social contract of Baseball fandom. Like what it even means that these teams are the only 30 professional Professional Baseball Teams, that most people have a meaningful relationship to. Like what the Rays do, does not happen in a vacuum. It doesn’t happen on a spreadsheet, it happens on a field. And this is not an anti analytics take, this as an anti bottom line, budget take. There are Rays’ fans who do not get to see their team win the World Series because the Rays are not bringing their best team to October. Just admittedly, they are admittedly not bringing the best version of themselves. Because if you got every front office person who works for the Rays, they’d be like, yes, we would be better if we could spend more money. There is not a single person who works for the Rays, who doesn’t think that. Because they are all very, very smart people. And they know that they could acquire more good players, if they had more money to work with. Nobody, if you think that the Rays spending less makes them good. You just don’t understand Baseball. Fans like that the Rays 100 games this season, they like that the team was really good. But they still experienced the pain of getting eliminated every year all the same. And the way that we interpret Baseball, it’s a historical to say that the Rays are the best team just because they’ve won the most regular season games. Nobody thinks that you you you can win the most regular season games. And if you don’t actually come out on top in the World Series. At some point, then you weren’t the best team. And I think that Rays’ fans are being deprived of getting to actually watch and root for the best team. And I think that that is bad for Baseball. Because if not, then we’re just doing it for we’re just doing it for Executives. Like MLB–
ALEX: –I got some bad news for you.
BOBBY: Yes, MLB, the Rays exist only for Executives. They don’t exist for fans, they exist for Executives in their current state. And until they do something that is pro fan, then that take continuous–
ALEX: –stadium that’s actually somewhat ahh easy to get to.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: That’d be nice,
BOBBY: Like not threatening to leave the city for half the year, like not trading away every arbitration eligible player before they hit free agency, like a–anything, anything. But every move that they make is just for the Executives. And when you come out and you defend the Rays and you say, “nope, this is actually okay because the playoffs mean nothing”. “It’s fine that they got eliminated because it’s all a crapshoot”. That’s just bullshit. I’m sorry. That’s just more ways of defending the Executives who put together a good team but know that they didn’t put together the best team. All in service of saving Stu Sternberg money. That’s the craziest part of this to me, is it’s not your money, it’s Stuart Sternberg money. Like–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –we all have to be reasonable enough to say that the Rays can put together a better team if not forced Stu Sternberg, not wanting to spend a little bit more.
ALEX: Right. Well, but that’s also why I brought up the pro owner pro player because like, I think you can’t separate them, right? Like these, the economics of the game are intrinsically tied to the way that these teams operate and the products they ultimately put on the field. And so, if you choose to ignore all that, if you choose to say, I’m only looking at wins and losses you’re making you’re you’re taking a stance there, you are, right? You are deciding what matters as a fan, what you want to see what, what doesn’t matter to you. And if a team spending more money to try and put a better team on the field, whether or not it succeeds, but like, teams trying if that’s not something that really interests you. What do you–what are you still doing here?
BOBBY: Yes. Wha-why are we here?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That is what that is what actually really makes my blood boil every time there is Rays discourse, and every time I set it off or contribute to it, is that I always come back to why are we here? Why are we here? Why are you defending the Rays? Being the best team, because you really think that they were the best team? Well, they lost, when they were trying their hardest. And when all of the other teams were trying their hardest to beat them. They lost again, and again, and again and again, to teams that spent more and used more of their resources to put into the on field product. And I realized that maybe there is some logical fallacy there. But that is what I think and it was proven right again. So we can keep saying in this hypothetical world where eventually the Rays when it with a $50 million payroll, but it hasn’t happened yet. They’ve basically squeezed all of the juice out of this orange. And they still lost in the first round to their division rival in four games, let alone.
ALEX: Which can I say, is unfortunate, because I really like a lot of those players, as a Baseball team? Would have liked to have seen them do something more.
BOBBY: But and I’m fine with you saying that I don’t, I don’t root against the players is the thing I–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –I I think it’s actually–
ALEX: We’re rude against the discourse.
BOBBY: It’s depriving the fans it’s depriving the Rays’ fans and depriving the general fans of Baseball of what could be maybe some of the best teams ever assembled. Like if you get this much production out of the guys who are in the bottom half of your lineup in the bottom half of your roster. Imagine what could happen if you also add it in superstars to that. You have the Dodgers who actually won the the actual World Series last year, and have made the actual World Series three times this decade.
ALEX: Against all odds. We did 15 minutes on the Rays, a team who’s not in the playoffs anymore.
BOBBY: Sorry. I realize I’m just like–
ALEX: No, it’s you got it, the blood gets flowing, you know. We said this was gonna be a chaotic episode upfront. We were both hyped up. You had these Rays takes, stew in for a few days. You were going at it on Twitter with Joe Sheehan and shit. Like I feel it, you had to this is the outlet.
BOBBY: I just needed to get it out of my system. That’s all.
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Yeah.
BOBBY: And ahh, now we can enjoy the rest of October without the Rays. And without the discourse surrounding them. I’m sure that will definitely be accomplished right?
ALEX: Uh-hmm. Well, and another thing please, please don’t post that I got mad.
BOBBY: Ahhm, since we spent so much time talking about the Rays. Unfortunately, the Red Sox are going to get short shrifted, uhm because we need to talk about the fact that there is a game five between the Dodgers and Giants tomorrow. Uhm, this series is an absolute treat. It’s unfortunate that it’s coming in the first round and that we don’t get to get seven games of it. Because I am certain that it would go to seven games because these teams are so evenly matched. Uhm, but so far, it has delivered uhm as the marquee matchup among the team, the teams with the best, two best records in Baseball. I think the thing that has struck me about this series so far is that most people, myself included, just consider the Dodgers to be the best and most talented team. They won the World Series last year, they had an incredible season this year. But at every turn of this series and really at every turn of the whole season as well. The Giants are the perfect foil for them. You know, you have all this overwhelming overwhelming talent on the Dodger side. And then you have this kind of underwhelming equal talent on the Giant side. These guys who are not huge names, who have not had as long of a track record of putting up incredible MVP type seasons. Just foiling them at every turn and it’s kind of played out that way in this series. Uhm, you know you get a marquee matchup in game one of Walker Buehler versus Logan Webb and Logan Webb just completely dominates the Dodgers lineup. Uhm, how has it been for you? Have you been locked into these games?
ALEX: I have been somewhat locked in. Although because these are the games these are the West Coast games that means they’re the games that are starting the latest which means they’re they the games that usually run past my bedtime. So you know I can go get up in the morning to work ahh, to work a nine to five job–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –pays the bills, but there is such a palpable energy between these teams. That, it feels like they have been here before–
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: –they never have but it feels like that. It almost feels like the Giants somehow sapped all the energy from the Padres in the second half of the season. And just took it and ran with it because I you know, remember like in June in May, we were watching Dodgers-Padres games and saying, “holy shit it already feels like the postseason”
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: Dodger Stadium is rocking, Petco is is rocking, the fans are into it, look at these two powerhouses going at it. And the Giants just kind of picked up the baton right where the Padres dropped it and I you know, we’re all the all the better for it because I think that. It’s fun seeing a team that is uhm that complements it’s ahh it’s developmental finds, and fringe players who turn out to be good with ahh with extra stars, you know, Chris Bryant? Heard of him?
BOBBY: Yeah, he’s been huge.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Even if you stretch it all the way back to Evan Longoria–
ALEX: Evan Longoria–
BOBBY: –been on the team forever–
ALEX: –who I feel like, I–I I am reminded of on like, a weekly basis. I’m like, Oh, that’s right. You know, the information enters my brain, and then it kind of immediately leaves again.
BOBBY: Yeah. I mean, I was in I was like I said I was at game four it was a sellout at Dodger Stadium. Everybody was really rowdy, I would describe the crowd as nervous but confident. Uhm I think like me, most of the Dodgers fans assumed that these teams are evenly matched enough that it would have to go five games. And that was the case. Walker Buehler was incredible on short rest, uhm even though he got pulled in the fifth inning, ahh because his pitch count was a little bit up. But yeah, I mean, I wish we could just watch this for the rest of the playoffs. But whichev–one of these two teams is going to advance to play the Braves who most people thought was the worst team in the playoff field. And that would be a reasonable thought because they had the worst record and in the worst division, and not a terribly impressive run differential to show for it. And that just goes to show that the Brewers came in a little bit. They came in a little bit light on the offensive end. Uhm, you know, we don’t need to spend a ton of time with the rest of the series because we’re already going long. I I take the blame for that because of my incredibly long drawn out repetitive probably Rays rant. But do you find yourself caring who wins this Giants-Dodgers game? As a relatively neutral observer? Are you rooting against the Giants just because of the A’s connection?
ALEX: I have to choose my words very carefully, because I have people close to me on both sides of the aisle.
BOBBY: You’re like a you’re like in a like in a presidential primary right now. Like you don’t want to offend the radicals and you don’t want to offend the moderate.
ALEX: Right, exactly. I need to keep the base, you know–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: –the base largely being my ahh my, my mother, who–
BOBBY: The person who brought you into this world–
ALEX: –who house me and raised me–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Who was a big Dodgers fan? We should say [43:39] not your mom.
ALEX: Right, exactly. Yes. I guess I’m probably pulling for the Dodgers, I guess? Barely and because I love a lot of individual players on the team, I love Mookie, obviously.
BOBBY: What a star.
ALEX: Cody, wh–when he learns to hit again, fuck, dude. It’s gonna be fun.
BOBBY: He does look a little bit more competent. They still–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –a bunch of broadcasters have brought this up that they still kind of pitch him like he’s capable of taking them deep at any point even though he has not proven that to be the case this year. But it only takes one with him. His swing is very timing oriented because it’s the biggest swing I’ve ever seen. Uhm but yeah, you you know, tough season for him but you know resets every October he can make an impact here.
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: Two [44:37] in game five that would be incredible. What a story would.
ALEX: Yeah, all in all I’m it’s the se–it’s a series that has lived up to the name of the rivalry and the hype that has kind of come along with it. And whoever comes out I feel like we will have gotten our our money’s worth.
BOBBY: Can I tell you the story of the guy who was sitting in front of me yelling for three innings about MLB should have a salary cap? This was, he came to game four between the two best teams in Baseball. Both of whom spend a lot and it was very entertaining game and he was a Dodgers’ fan so it’s not like he was he was even a sour Giants’ fan. He was the Dodgers, he’s definitely rooting for the Dodgers. Although we kept yelling about how he was from Boston and he also wants the Red Sox to make it to the World Series.
ALEX: So a lot of click conflicting identities.
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: I mean you know–
BOBBY: And his big thing was–
ALEX: –we contain multitudes, salary cap, spend less money–
BOBBY: Let fewer good players–
ALEX: New, new too good teams.
BOBBY: Uhm, just a very confusing why a person would want to spend most of their most of their time at a playoff game talking about the salary cap, you know, you would think that I would be the type of person to lean over and be like, actually, this is why this having a salary cap is bad, but not even I want to do that in a playoff game.
ALEX: No, that’s not why you saw you go there.
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: He found the real underdog to root for, so I guess I applaud him for that.
BOBBY: Yeah, the owner, of the Dodgers? Okay, are you ready to do a couple of voicemails and then “Three Ip, Three Down”?
ALEX: Yeah, shouts shouts to the Braves, shouts shouts to the Red Sox. pitch you on the way background,
BOBBY: They got a whole nother week to play at least.
VOICEMAIL 1: Hey, guys, ahm this is Becca, I just have a message for the man on the bar, who told me he was rooting against the Dodgers because he didn’t like that a team could send money and get all the good players uhm to USA. That’s the point. So maybe relax and have some fun and don’t root for the Cardinals because that’s not good. Okay bye.
BOBBY: So this was obviously from a little over a week ago when it was Dodgers versus Cardinals in the wild card, Alex. But I did plan it to be this way. Another listener sharing that spending money is actually good, right after talking about the man in front of me who is wearing a T shirt that said there should be a salary cap basically.
ALEX: Short, sweet, to the point. That’s, I love this, back–to that I say that’s the point. Maybe have some fun with it.
BOBBY: That is the point okay–
ALEX: And don’t root for the Cardinals. Getting those those three sentences tattooed on my forehead,
BOBBY: Pro player, unless the player is on the Cardinals. Uhm, next voicemail.
VOICEMAIL 2: Hey, Alex, hey, Bobby, hope you guys doing well. So when you guys were talking about what Jim Kaat said, and what bookshelves sell off, they said about Yoán Moncada. And then you mentioned Thom Brennaman. It got me thinking, do you guys think that it would have been handled the same way if it were a regular season game? So for instance, Thom Brennaman got pulled in the middle of that game, after he said that homophobic slur, but Jim Kaat only had to issue an apology, very half assed apology. Ahh do you think it would have been the same if you like, do you think it would have been pulled? If it were a regular season game? Or do you think it would have been the same just him having to apologize and then carrying on, I personally think that they didn’t want to do something that would provoke the old white male viewers, as we know, that’s still a very prominent demographic in Baseball. Ahh, since it was a playoff game. It’s on a much larger scale. But I don’t know, I wanted to see what you guys thought because like, I don’t think he should have got to stay in the booth, but I’d really like to hear your guys’s thoughts on this. So yeah, thanks, guys.
BOBBY: It’s hard to say definitively whether he would have continued calling the game if it was a regular season game. I think for me, at least the dichotomy here is that Tom Brennaman was scheduled to call the next however many games for the Reds, he was just their announcer and he was just like their play by play guys. So it was clearly going to be untenable in that he was caught on a hot mic saying something horrible. And fans, we’re not just going to accept that he would continue. So why even let him continue on for the rest of this game. He’s going to go on, you know, leave and then also ultimately be fired. For Jim Kaat or Jim Ka-at. I don’t know how to actually pronounce it. Uhm I think that he was only scheduled to call this one game. So the MLB Network people were just like, “let’s ride it out”, I guess? I mean, I also think that there’s something there’s something different in that what he did was alluding to something heinous and racist. And he didn’t actually say a slur, the way that Thom Bre–on air the way that Thom Brennaman did so I think that if you’re an Executive, I also agree that they should have just pulled them off air. Like if you’re gonna say that on air, what else might you say before the end of this game? But I think that they’re an Executive to talk could talk themselves into the fact that not everyone at home listening, heard it or paid attention or caught. What he said.
ALEX: Right, it feels like there’s more plausible deniability there, even though we all know kind of where that where that reference came from, where what was triggered in his mind–
BOBBY: Right now, Yeah.
ALEX: But the fact that he almost, maybe this is this is a weird thought, but I almost feel like because he said it on air in the middle of a conversation in which nobody was really in the clear that almost lent him a little bit more cover, right? Brennaman as you said, caught on a hot mic saying, you know, slur, straight up, very easy to like, draw the line there and be like, yeah, we don’t, we don’t, you know, we don’t say that. We don’t tolerate that. And with what Kaat said, you can say, Well, you know, he was 40 acres, 35, 45 acres. I just want all the y’all kind of, you know, like, I there were plenty of people on online, saying, well, what’s I don’t see what the big deal is. He he wasn’t saying anything wrong, right? He wasn’t insulting Moncada. He, he just, you know, just happened to pull a very specific reference out of his ass.
BOBBY: Yeah, I mean, you can find people online defending Brennaman too though. So, like–
ALEX: I’d yes, yeah.
BOBBY: –you can find many people online at media outlets that shall remain unnamed defending Thom Brennaman until they’re blue in the face. Uhm, yeah I think that that’s the only difference really, and that and what I said and that he’s not going to have to call the rest of this series or the rest of the postseason or anything like that. So they don’t have to worry about what comes next. They just kind of let it ride out for the rest of this game. Uhm I–I think it just has more to do with the individuals making that decision really than anything else. Uhm, either way, I still can’t believe that that happened. Feels like a million years ago, but I cannot believe that happened. Uhm, we have one more ahh, one more message from listener. This one is an email not a voicemail, so I’ll read it out for you, Alex. Ahh this comes from Seamus, “I wanted to send in this as a voicemail but 24 hours after my first ever playoff game in 18 seasons following the Red Sox, my voice remains totally shot, which actually illustrates my thoughts pretty nicely. Playoff Baseball kicks ass like nothing else. Fenway Park is genuinely magic. I so badly hope the Sox decide to keep this core around for a while. If Kike Hernandez does not get a long term contract with Boston, I’m going to have serious words for the front office. Cheers guys. Keep up the incredible work.” Let’s go. That’s what it’s all about.
ALEX: That’s right.
BOBBY: Losing your voice for your squad.
ALEX: Don’t don’t really remember what that feels like. It’s been a spin a minute.
BOBBY: Yes, uhm, this gives us a good opportunity to talk about Kike Hernandez who is absolutely on fire and is also just one of the most delightful and exciting people to root for, especially come October because he is having as much fun out there as anybody. And he’s not like he’s not the name that jumps off the page on any team that he’s on. But time and time again he finds himself in the lineup because of his defensive versatility because of his bat to ball because he has had a long track record of performing in these big moments. He was great on the Dodgers and all of those postseasons. I I just love that for a guy who I think is funny and light hearted and has a great spirit on the field and embodies like a lot of those things that we talked about wanting more of.0
ALEX: Yeah, it’s still weird to me seeing him in a Red Sox uniform.
BOBBY: So weird.
ALEX: I still, he’s still a Dodger. He’s still on the Dodgers.
BOBBY: I know I just expect him to like Superman pull off his Red Sox–
ALEX: Brilliant.
BOBBY: –have a Dodgers jersey on it’s really weird. I think to because he was on the 2018 team that played against the Red Sox
ALEX: Right, uh-hmm.
BOBBY: It’s even weirder.
ALEX: That we’re through the looking glass right now.
BOBBY: Uhm, okay let’s take a quick break and then when we come back, “Three Up, Three Down”.
[53:52]
[Transition Music]
BOBBY: All right now, lets go, “Three Up, Three Down”. Uhm, let’s start with Up this week.
ALEX: Yes, yeah.
BOBBY: Uhh you want to go first?
ALEX: Ahh sure, yeah, I will take it away. Let’s talk about broadcasters since we’re on the topic.
BOBBY: And this is an Up? Are you sure?
ALEX: This is, this is in–
BOBBY: –you’re not actually, you’re not actually reading from the wrong side of the list?
ALEX: Uhm, yes. I’m referring to the Fox Sports One broadcast booth baby–
BOBBY: [54:37]
ALEX: –three legends. Three legends–
BOBBY: Three?
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: Three?
ALEX: Yes, yes.
BOBBY: Wow.
ALEX: This is my take, Fox Sports uhh broadcast booth who have been who they were. They were calling me, ahh Astros-White Sox series. And it was composed of Adam Amin who was the ahh play by play and complimented by One, Adam Wainwright. And who I think was referred to as “Waino”–
BOBBY: The [55:07].
ALEX: –that time he was his actual name, like I don’t actually–
BOBBY: Legally obliged to call him “Waino”.
ALEX: Yeah. Ahh and A.J. Pierzynski.
BOBBY: Oh my God.
ALEX: A.J. Pierzynski.
BOBBY: This is an [55:18], such a curveball.
ALEX: He is such a blowhard.
BOBBY: Mm-hmm.
ALEX: And talks way too much. And also–
BOBBY: I’m trying to imagine A.J. Pierzynski listening to us, call him a blowhard who talks too much and being like, who the fuck are these guys? They–
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: –spend 90 minutes every week with no basis, just sharing their Baseball [55:43]–
ALEX: Just circle circle jerking like strikes and stuff.
BOBBY: Yes. Uhm, let’s change gears–
ALEX: [55:49]
BOBBY: –in the bio to that. Tipping Pitches circle jerking strikes and stuff.
ALEX: Yeah, pretty much. Uh, what I appreciated about Pierzynski and Wainwright [56:00] like the whole booth is that they have really good chemistry with each other and very clearly enjoyed the Baseball that was being played on the field.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Wainwright is a hoot, right? And–
BOBBY: And he’s–
ALEX: –just I will I will have him, ahh you know commentate my you know doing the laundry, right? Us doing housekeeping that’s all, I’ll let him do it.
BOBBY: Look at this Cardinal spend him sneaking through again this guy–
ALEX: I know right?
BOBBY: [56:20] born in St. Louis is this whole Bay area thing–
ALEX: –what’s happening–
BOBBY: –is it a bruse, like did you just pull one over on me when we met in college? Or–
ALEX: But I think like having a a a pitcher and the catcher.
BOBBY: Yes [56:42]–
ALEX: Cause especially, especially ones who have like played in the last decade, was really valuable. Because they were able to like speak the same language with each other and and like tease out the the you know, the topics and the ideas that the other one was was pulling out. Wainwright was as much comedic relief as he was actual analysis which I completely appreciate, right? And Pierzynski was as much just just saying words as he was actual analysis.
BOBBY: Yeah. It is a delicate balance, when you have a a a funny outgoing affable personality like Wainwright and you have like a Red ass in the booth also like Pierzynski famous Red ass like when he was playing was known as the Red aas on the team.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: And I think that, this is not to be a Mets homer again but this is kind of a dynamic that you see in the Mets booth where like Keith is the old timey guy who they have to rein in sometimes because he has bad opinions but they are self aware about that. And when you have play by play and another color guy in there who can be self aware about the third guy in the booth maybe having an opinion that not everybody can fully get behind. I think–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –I think that that makes for entertaining viewership and I mean it’s great I–
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: –like him a lot. I I think that he’s my type of play by play guy and that he is bringing his energy level up to the game when it needs to be and he’s having a good time. I’m not i’m not for the like straight laced old old timey play by play guy it’s not my not my flavor.
ALEX: Right. Well and I think a lot of times use the play by play guy and the color guy are having two separate conversations, right? They’re not necessarily talking to each other, one guy is calling the game and the other guy is just doing kind of like stream of consciousness, you know, like–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: –word association.
BOBBY: Right.
ALEX: And and what was great about, I mean is that he really did kind of tie everything together, right? And was very clearly having a good time with the guys sitting next to him. And while watching the game going on on the field,
BOBBY: The secret ingredient is that you just have to force your color guy to eat a different thing every inning and then you’ll have a good booth.
ALEX: Right, exactly, yes. I I do not know how Adam Wainwright is still a professional Baseball player.
BOBBY: Yes, yes. He’s just housing it, the different, the hot dog is a [59:08] yeah, the nachos, the helmet, yeah, uhm that was your right that was a lot of fun. I could do without prison ski we could get a different catcher in there. But your point well taken.
ALEX: I agree, but he was like kind of self deprecating again, I please do not accuse me of being an A.J. Pierzynski fan. like that’s you know don’t insult my my ahh, my character like that, but he was almost self deprecating enough that and and provided enough like kind of red ass insight that
BOBBY: I was like, Oh, it’s good to know when like some people–
ALEX: I don’t like you, yeah.
BOBBY: Yes. Uhm, okay my first Up this week is short rest. I love short rest. I love pitchers coming out and throwing on short rest–
ALEX: After when it’s Shane McClanahan and Rays.
BOBBY: After when it’s Shane McMahon and the Rays. I know when it’s your A’s, and you need them and you’re like, really don’t want to you know you’re doing the whole like theatrical of it, where the Manager has to come out the day before or two days before and be like it’s off the table, we’re not doing that, we’re not doing that with Walker Buehler, we’re not we’re not doing that with Max Scherzer, Julio Urías will not be throwing in short rest. And you just make a whole a whole storyline, a whole narrative out of it, and then the pitcher comes out on short rest and it feels like you’re seeing him on a day that you’re not supposed to see him and it feels like you’re looking behind the curtain at his off day routine but he just happens to be on the mound. I live for that stuff in October, I am such a sucker for narratives like that especially when they’re surrounding starting pitchers and when guys do well on short rest I am floored. Because these are guys who put their bodies through so much every fifth day they are suddenly–
ALEX: [1:00:57] creatures of habit.
BOBBY: Yes insane creatures of habit like if you talk to pitchers, the third day is their throw day and then the fifth day is the day that they are ramping up towards in the way that these guys know their bodies and to then throw on short rest and to be good on it, I am I love that. And that’s it there’s no there’s no other big sweeping takeaway from it I just love that October it gives us that opportunity to see something that is a little bit like it’s just a different tone. It’s a different uhm i–it’s like a soggy mess in a different rhythm.
ALEX: It’s right it’s like when love on top ahh, you know does the key changes at the end of the song–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: –Oh, whoa. Oh–
BOBBY: Whoa. got another [1:01:36]–
ALEX: –you can do that?
BOBBY: Exactly. exactly. All right next Up for you.
ALEX: Uh next Up for me features a a brief story involving One John Cusack. Far be it for me to actually reference barstool sports on this podcast.
BOBBY: Wow. So you–
ALEX: But–
BOBBY: –so you’d like it A.J. Pierzynski and you’ve been following barstool content, noted.
ALEX: Right. And I’m a Cardinals’ fan. This is real 180 [1:02:01], people tuning out as we speak.
BOBBY: Yes. The retention–
ALEX: Uhhh.
BOBBY: –are dying right now.
ALEX: No, there was a there’s a ball–barstool ahh writer, you know, Twitter, whatever, just personality who was at the White Sox game. The White Sox fan, [1:02:20] White Sox saw John Cusack there, wearing White Sox gear. Now John Cusack who is who is from the Chicago area has been known to go to both ahh Cubs games and White Sox games. He was very notably at the World Series that the Cubs won back in 2016. But, uh, but he was here this postseason because the White Sox were the Chicago team that was in it, and–
BOBBY: Uh-hmm.
ALEX: –it’s the city where is he from, so he was at the game and [1:02:49] approached him with the intent of [1:02:55] parent attentive, trying to accost him for going to Cubs and White Sox games or or or rooting for both teams or something like that. It was kind of unclear to me what the what the end goal was. And it it became completely lost when John Cusack turned around and bodied the guy. I don’t mean physically bodied him, although that arguably would have been cooler.
BOBBY: That would have been really something.
ALEX: But John Cusack, like effectively turns around and says, I’ve been watching this team, you know, for decades here. Ahh, do you know who who the first baseman was on the ’83 team? You know. Do you know who the this player was? And like, while that’s not always the best way to like, display fandom, especially to someone who’s like half your age, he effectively gave the the best possible retort to all of this, right? Which is like, fuck you. I’m John Cusack, I can do what I want.
BOBBY: Yup.
ALEX: And that’s true, he is and he can. And more broadly speaking, I just like, I don’t want to get into like a fandom like gatekeeping conversation right now because we’ll–
BOBBY: No.
ALEX: –go for like a half hour about it. But like, It’s so fucking stupid. Just let people enjoy Baseball. Just let people go to games and like what they’re watching
BOBBY: It is like weirdly freeing when you see someone else who is not governed by all of these, you know, ancient rules of fandom that we’ve passed down through generations, when John Cusack is just like what are you talking about weird demon that I’ve never met, like why are you approaching me? I don’t know you–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –like that. And also I can name the first baseman on the team in the 80s so I can pass your test and also I don’t agree that your test is valid.
ALEX: Right, yes, exactly. He’s like no, I’m I’m not playing by your rules to which the the [1:04:40] had like a certified meltdown. He was like literally threw his hands up in the air and was like, voice got like two octa tire and was like, no but you can’t do that. Like wow.
BOBBY: It really–
ALEX: –by feels been made–
BOBBY: –It felt like a person who was like I don’t believe that the SAT should count for anything but also score is a perfect SAT score.
ALEX: Exactly, uhm anyway, John Cusack is an absolute legend, so–
BOBBY: You can’t do that. Uhm, thanks John Cusack. Ahh my next Up this week is, has to do with the Boston Red Sox, Alex. After the Red Sox beat the Rays, uhm there was a video of them celebrating in their locker room. They were gathered around, spraying champagne, jumping up and down, having a merry old time. They were also singing a song and I will let the listeners hear that song right now.
[1:05:30]
[Red Sox players singing a song]
BOBBY: Look, I’m not a Red Sox fan. I don’t subscribe to their underdog narrative. I think it’s bullshit like I said at the beginning of the show they’ve won four World Series they’re tired and underdog they traded away Mookie Betts, there’s a whole host of reasons you can convince yourself not to root for the Red Sox. But man they’re Robin fans. That’s pretty tight.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Never in my life that I think that I would see a group of grown men in an MLB locker room singing dancing on my own.
ALEX: I was so confused at first because I was like it sounds like they’re like chanting something. Is this like a like some sort of team bonding experience, you know where they’re like exercising the Devils or something like that. But you know ri–after exercising the the Rays. Uhm but no, there was just chanting along to dancing on my own.
BOBBY: Which player Do you think brought that song into the locker room? Because you know, it was one guy that was like, okay, listen, I know that we usually you know, we play our own things. We put our country player hip hop, we play our rock, whatever. Everybody gather around, I’m gonna show you a song that’s gonna blow your mind. Which player? I think it was Tanner Houck.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: That’s just my shot in the dark.
ALEX: I’m gonna go with Nate Eovaldi.
BOBBY: Oh, good one.
ALEX: Yeah, he just seems like kind of like a Baseball player who actually has managed to retain some semblance of like his humanity throughout it all you know.
BOBBY: He seems great. I would love–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –to have him on this show. He seems like the nicest guy. I’ve heard that he is incredibly nice and also–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –the perspective that you have to have to just maintain a positive outlook after to Tommy John’s being the guy that he is–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –and everything that he’s been through in his career on the field. He just seems like the best thing. So actually, I think I think that’s good you know that he told Alex Cora that he he could throw an inning in game four if he needed to.
ALEX: Jesus.
BOBBY: He started game three.
ALEX: Yes, chaotic energy.
BOBBY: One of legend. Well, this man just does not care, he’s like my, I’ll go to my fourth elbow I don’t give a–
ALEX: Right, he’s like this thing’s shredded anyway.
BOBBY: Uhm, okay your next Up, your final Up.
ALEX: Okay, my final Up. Because it may be the the the last time we discussed Tony La Russa this season, unless you’ve got unless you’ve got them and you’re Down in which case–
BOBBY: No–
ALEX: –fucking nevermind.
BOBBY: I have them in my up in my final. I’m very curious to see if this is the same thing.
ALEX: It is his modest proposal.
BOBBY: Yep. Uh-hmm.
ALEX: To ahh prevent sign stealing.
BOBBY: So good. It’s so perfect.
ALEX: This ahh, this comes from Jesse Rodgers over ESPN who covers the Chicago Baseball team among, among other Baseball teams. And ahh and he sent this tweet out a couple days ago in a read regarding signs stealing. Tony La Russa’s idea to the league was to require the runner on second base to turn towards centerfield when the sign is given to the catcher then turned back and then to linebreaks, the idea was ignored. Now I almost love the the pros of this tweet.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: The as as much as I do the actual idea, which is–
BOBBY: Just one of the weirdest ideas I’ve ever heard–
ALEX: –some brain genius like, well, what if we just have them like, put their heads down? You know, and then someone will come around and like tap them on the head when they can come up, you know, like some heads up seven up action or whatever.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Uhm, but no, it was literally, like, just just have them close their eyes.
BOBBY: The way that they know when to turn back is that over the PA system, they play hokey pokey, and when they say you do the hokey pokey changes that’s when you turn back that’s how they–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –then the sign is done. If you’re not done giving the sign but then then you can steal it.
ALEX: I just, I can’t imagine he actually proposed this entire seriousness, right? Because you get two seconds of thought to it and you’re like of course this wouldn’t work my my thinking is like they were just kind of soliciting ideas or having a general like roundtable about signs stealing and he was like what if we haven’t closed their eyes?
BOBBY: Yeah I think that after you pass a certain age you just lose the ability to deliver most people just lose the ability to deliver things with a sarcastic tone the people who keep it are like you know, Marvels were like, how would they still have their fastball they’re 90 so funny, but most people lose it and I think that he lost it. I think that–
ALEX: So we think this is this is sarcasm that was lost in translation.
BOBBY: I hope so, this is a man who is running a Baseball team.
ALEX: I know.
BOBBY: He cannot earnestly think that the right idea is to have his runner turn around and face centerfield.
ALEX: For four seconds while the sign is being giveng–
BOBBY: Can you imagine trying to get back to the bag you want to pick off move you just have to [1:10:55]–
ALEX: –you’re not allowed to to do pick offs while the runner is turned around. But there’s going to be a brief second there where the runner is turning around and the catcher and the pitcher has just finished receiving the signs and that’s that sweet spot right–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –where no one really knows where anyone [1:11:13]–
BOBBY: Exactly. Uhm okay, let’s move on to Down, because that was my third Up as well. I will go first.
ALEX: Okay.
BOBBY: Back to the Houston Astros back to the Chicago White Sox. Uhm White Sox really very Ryan Tepera was had some interesting things to share with the media after the series shifted back to Chicago the first two games were in Houston. Uhm the next few games were in Chicago after game three, Ryan Tepera felt like the Astros were not teeing up as many Baseball’s on the road as they were at home. He was thus alluding to the fact that the Astros signs stealing scandal, they were only able to pull off that system while they were at home because they were using their own cameras, their own replay review and their own trash cans, in the tunnel. Look I don’t want to spend a lot of time on this. I don’t I even kind of regret putting it on my Down at all. Because every time you talk about this, it just becomes the same conversation. I feel like I’m just yelling into the void every time.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Number one, the Astros shredded White Sox pitching on the road as well. Like they scored si–six runs in the game that they lost and they scored seven runs in the elimination game.
ALEX: You weren’t exactly mowing them down, Mr Tepera.
BOBBY: Number two, ho–how long are we going to do this?
ALEX: Uh-hm.
BOBBY: Is my question like, how long is it an excuse for you as an opponent, as an opponent of the Astros? When you get beat, just just to say, maybe they’re cheating again. They couldn’t do that with every team. If a guy looks locked in on your fastball from the first pitch of the game, couldn’t you be like, well, they just copied the Astros–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –and we quickly start to lose the thread here we quickly start to lose reality, you know?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Yes, I am all for finding out that team’s cheated and preventing them from doing it again. But just pointing at circumstantial at best evidence and being like, that’s cheating. At some point, it’s like why are we even playing it all Then? if you just think every time you lose, someone cheated against you then like, just don’t play.
ALEX: Yeah, it was it was a very bizarre thing for him to bring up especially in a game where their pitching had just domi–the White Sox fishing had just dominated right there. Their bullpen had like, the White Sox just had a good game. And you’re worried about the other teams splits? I it’s unclear to me. I was saying–
BOBBY: Spending too much time on Baseball reference, actually relatable.
ALEX: I will say, like I am, yes, I initially had this on my Down to because I’m just like Astros discourse. I’m done with Astros discourse, right? Like I don’t, I guess that they cheated. I don’t really care anymore. I do think this is the bed they’ve met right? I, this is–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –the Astros like and if you will recall, Rob Manfred’s rationale for not punishing the players was like, well, everyone else will punish them.
BOBBY: Yep–
ALEX: And–
BOBBY: –to put bounty on them, yep I recall.
ALEX: To an extent, I mean that that hasn’t happened, right? Like know, that I’m sure the Astros will feel very punished when they ahh go to the World Series–
BOBBY: To play in the ALCS next week.
ALEX: Yeah. So I do think they brought it on themselves. I also have to commend them for not taking the bait, because that’s a team that in the past has responded very negatively to this type of criticism, right? We’ve seen players come out and be like, they just you know, they just want to be us. They’d you know, we got a chip on our shoulder. We’re the–we’re the underdogs now. Like no one, we can’t see the haters. Cause the World Series trophy is in the way, you know like this–
BOBBY: I love this. This is a whole section of itself, Alex, is trash talk.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I think it’s dusty Baker. I just think that dusty Baker’s like, whatever. This is a weird comment–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –like I think he’s responsible–
ALEX: Which is effectively what his [1:15:14]–
BOBBY: He was like interesting thought, next [1:15:18].
ALEX: Yeah, I think Martine Maldonado was like, uhh that’s that’s motivation for us. And then they went and won.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: So seemed to have worked.
BOBBY: Okay, what’s your first Down? No more Astros discourse. Except when they go on to play in the ALCS, I have to talk about them.
ALEX: My first Down, which is simultaneously and Up just because of the chaos that it sews, but it’s still somewhat frustrates me every postseason. Is that the the Baseball playoffs, every time October rolls around, It’s It’s It’s just a pop quiz on whether or not you know the rulebook. That is exactly what it is every single postseason. There’s one or two plays that just you may not have seen before. Maybe you haven’t seen it this season. Maybe you’ve never seen it before in your life–
BOBBY: I’ve never–
ALEX: –I don’t know–
BOBBY: –seen what happened with Hunter Renfroe in my life.
ALEX: And that’s what I mean, that’s you have 40,000 fans sitting there being like, how do we interpret this? You have players who I imagine aren’t really sure what, what the rule is–
BOBBY: I can’t imagine–
ALEX: –you have Umpires.
BOBBY: No, I can’t imagine the Red Sox fans or the Rays fans who were at Fenway.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Trying to make sense of what that call actually ended up being like they needed–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –full paragraphs on the screen explaining the rule on the TV broadcasts. So imagine being at–
ALEX: Yeah,
BOBBY: –the stadium, how do you like, did they send a push notification to everybody from the ticket app being–
ALEX: Right.
BOBBY: –like, here’s what happened, like, I don’t know.
ALEX: It would it would be nice if ahh, as an aside, if the Umpire, if Major League Baseball took a cue from the NFL, and gave Umpires like microphones, you know, so after the–
BOBBY: [1:17:10]
ALEX: –after the call is over, like you, you have to explain what the ruling was. And that would be especially–
BOBBY: Please–
ALEX: –entertaining. I think in these–
BOBBY: –you do not, under any circumstances have to hand a microphone to Joe West.
ALEX: That’s not true at all. He could he could bring some fire rock into the stadium. Uhm, I think it’s hilarious every time this comes up. I’ve also will say, I really, I appreciate ho–the minutiae of MLBs rulebook–
BOBBY: They thought they have everything.
ALEX: –that they have thought out just about everything. It’s really incredible.
BOBBY: Yep.
ALEX: Everything that’s reviewable is right there, and it says exactly what it is and why it’s reviewable. And if it’s not in there, sorry, you’re SOL. And I, like there’s nothing worse than than like, you know, a rulebook that is, like, kind of upper to interpretation that the language–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –is very vague on–
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Yes.
BOBBY: MLB is rulebook is the exact opposite of the Constitution. And nothing is–
ALEX: Exactly.
BOBBY: –after debate.
ALEX: Yes, yeah.
BOBBY: Uhm, yes, I found a way to undermine the US Constitution this late in the podcast, love to see it.
ALEX: Fill out your bingo cards, folks. Uhm, alright, what is uh, that ended up kind of being an Up for me–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –uhm, because I had just, you know.
BOBBY: It’s okay.
ALEX: It’s fun.
BOBBY: It would be down for you if it negatively affected your team. Uhm–
ALEX: Made that the truth.
BOBBY: My next down is a very quick one. It is uhm, it’s unfortunate, and you know, we didn’t spend a ton of time talking about the Brewers. But it’s unfortunate that Christian Yelich had a really tough season and has had a really tough couple seasons, stating back to the shortened season last year. Because I really think that what this Brewers team was missing was a huge bat in the middle of their lineup. I know obviously, Willy Adames played incredible and he came over from the Rays, both offensively and defensively. Uhm, but like incredible for Willy Adames was like, just under 900 OPS and Christian Yelich for two straight seasons put up like over 1000 OPS just consistently not for a half season like Adames, like he was that hitter every at bat and he is just not right now. I don’t know what’s going on with him. I’m not the person to try to figure out what’s going on with him. But it did feel like it robbed us a little bit of a closer, more intense series between the Braves and the Brewers just because the previous offense just wasn’t there. There was just nothing for them and they gave up a backbreaking home run to Freddie Freeman. But it’s even more backbreaking because you know that it’s going to be an incredibly uphill battle to even score a couple runs against the Braves, who’s pitching is not even that scary to be honest. I mean, they have a couple good frontline starters but bullpen huge question marks and the Brewers just looked like they could not hit anything uhm in that series. So that’s my down. I miss God level Yelich, was a very fun player to watch.
ALEX: Yeah, he’s the kind of player who changes the game when he’s on the field and actually playing at the level he can play. One of those dynamic players who by himself can change outcomes with his power with the speed with his glove. Uhm, I mean it was it was only a couple years ago that he was putting up MVP caliber seasons, right? It was three years ago that he actually won an MVP award, like he’s still got it, I have to assume–
BOBBY: Yeah, just–
ALEX: –still in there.
BOBBY: –I just don’t know where and and why it’s we’re not seeing more of it. I don’t know. I mean, there’s obviously a very granular down but I I just found myself thinking a lot about that as he stepped up to the plate I was like, man, this guy used to strike fear.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: When when I would face him or when my team would face him and he’s just not at that level right now. And I hope that he can get back to that whatever adjustment that takes,. Uhm–
ALEX: Especially especially on the National stage in the postseason, it sucks to see like a star–
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: –just absolutely crumble–
BOBBY: it’s like you’re–
ALEX: –you know–
BOBBY: –talking about with Ballenger you know like you hope that it–
ALEX: Yeah, yeah.
BOBBY: –doesn’t go down that same path for him.
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: Okay, what’s your next Down?
ALEX: All right, my next Down. Real quick, Bobby, do you know what today is? Is the anniversary of something?
BOBBY: I do not.
ALEX: 20 years ago today, flip heard around the world.
BOBBY: Oh yes, I actually did see this on Instagram this morning.
ALEX: Uh-hmm, uh-hmm.
BOBBY: But I thought that it was yesterday, but okay, whatever.
ALEX: Derek Jeter,
BOBBY: I know where you’re going with this.
ALEX: The flip to Jorge Posada. Jason Giambi called out–
BOBBY: Very specific wording there.
ALEX: All I’m saying, that game is played today? If that play happens today? You want to know what the what the call is?
BOBBY: Yes.
ALEX: Not not out.
BOBBY: No, he was safe. Although–
ALEX: And I–
BOBBY: Yeah, really depending on the angle, though. It’s so hard to tell, you need–
ALEX: It is really it is really hard to tell–
BOBBY: –from the first baseline dug out where you see his right foot touch. Just before you see Posada’s club bend backwards as he hits Giambi’s left leg. Because that is the only angle–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –that you can see that his right foot got in there because he didn’t slide–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –all this to say, slide on close plays at home.
ALEX: Kids, shhh yeah, seriously. How long do you think it would have taken for this review to happen? Had they instituted a a replay review on eight minutes, Eight minutes?
BOBBY: So long.
ALEX: That’s about that sounds about right to me.
BOBBY: Yeah.
ALEX: Yeah. It would have gotten to the point, which is the point we never want to get to, when the broadcasters are sitting there saying, “I really don’t understand how it can take this long”, you know. Like that’s always a fun point in Baseball games for me when even the broadcasters are a little confused as to the mechanics of what’s going on behind the scenes–
BOBBY: I like when they have it [1:22:54] the broadcasting staff whe–when they call they bring them in to like explain something–
ALEX: Uh-hmm.
BOBBY: –and they’re like, you know, this happens more in Football and Basketball than it does in Baseball. But when they bring in the official and they’re like, take us through what you have to what what boxes you got to check in there. Basically just being like–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –why the fuck does it take you guys so long? [1:23:11]–
ALEX: What’s going on? Yes.
BOBBY: Uhm.
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: Giambi was safe.
ALEX: I agree, that’s right.
BOBBY: You you convinced me–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –of that. Over the years, I don’t think I would be allowed to remain friends with you if I thought he was out. Alright, what’s your what’s your final that my final down this week is not related to baseball, which is why I saved it for the very end is related to collective bargaining agreements in the reporting that is done on them. Alex, you might have seen a controversy over a leaked email from Adam Schefter. The NFL News Breaker, the NFL equivalent of a Passan or Rosenthal, currently employed by ESPN, though, we will see if that remains to be the case. Uhm, sending an email to Bruce Allen, who is a lead who’s an NFL official, former GM was uhm a party to the CBA negotiations on the league side, Adam Schefter sent an email to Bruce Allen ahh with an attachment of an entire story that Adam Schefter had written covering the CBA negotiations and he asked Bruce Allen quote, “please let me know if you see anything that should be changed should be added changed, tweaked. Thanks, Mr. Editor for that, and the trust plan to file this to ESPN about 6am”. Man, that is an email you don’t want to leak as a journalist, but even more so you shouldn’t be sending it at all. You know what you’re not supposed–
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: –to do? lead to your sources, edit your stories. That’s what we call not objective. And I think that, you know, we spend a lot of time doing meta criticism with media on this podcast probably more time than any other people who extensively have a Baseball podcast quote unquote, but it’s because of stuff like this, it is because if you think that this is only happening with Adam Schefter, and the NFL, man, you’re a sucker, because it really seems every time there’s CBA flare ups, that we’re hearing verbatim sources that have knowledge of the league side. And the reason that we spend so much time criticizing how the media covers, and both sides is these labor fights between the MLB Players Association and the MLB side who often act in bad faith. The reason that we spend so much time is because of stuff like this, because stuff like this is pervasive and because the story that gets told is often one that is just leaked directly from the league side. And in this case, like 10 steps past that, just edited by the league side, it’s just the article that is supposed to be objective is a PR statement. Unbelievable stuff, Mr. Editor. I can you start calling me that?
ALEX: Yeah.
BOBBY: I do edit this podcast.
ALEX: Yeah, you do. By the way, I was gonna I was gonna ask if you want to meet a week, we transfer this straight to Rob? Or are you going to edit it and then send to him?
BOBBY: Just make sure that Rob is okay with like, we’re still recording shit. Just make sure he’s okay with everything that you said.
ALEX: Okay, all right. I’ll send them the–
BOBBY: CC Eric Neander as well. I mean, I know we went a little hard at the Rays.
ALEX: Yeah, yeah, true. Good call, good call. Tough. All right.
BOBBY: All right, your final Down.
ALEX: My final Down, is ahh, is a serious one. And that’s that uhm long time longtime Oakland A’s broadcaster Ray Fosse passed away, right as we ahh right as we started recording this podcast. And did ahh, it took me by surprise a little bit more than it probably should have given that I, you know, I’ve, we learned back in August, that he’s been battling cancer silently for the better part of the last two decades. Uhm, but it really caught me off guard. And I, my heart is a little heavy, because he, no person could call an A’s game like he could. And this is a man who’s been calling A’s games for 35 years, 35 years, that he’s been on TV, talking about the green and gold. That’s the kind of presence that is is missed in broadcast booths. And he was so unique in his delivery, and like, weird and unabashedly himself. And I think it really runs against the grain of what a lot of broadcasters are today, which is oftentimes seeming like they don’t necessarily want to be there. Ray always felt like he was enjoying the game was never upset about youth movements, about the way that the game was evolving. He was a a passive observer. And not to mention a fucking truck of a human. The amount of injuries that this man sustained over the course of his career is kind of unbelievable that he was still walking, right? As a, as a catcher who was just taking hits left and right. One time dislocated his shoulder because he was breaking up a fight in the A’s locker room that Reggie Jackson was on one side of, you know, who is a person in a fight, I don’t want to be between? Reggie Jackson. Anyway, he was he was not doing A’s games for the last couple months of the season. But it still feels like there’s going to be a hole in that booth when the A’s come back next year, because that’s the sort of personality you can’t you can’t replicate. You can’t fake that.
BOBBY: Yeah, I think I mean, obviously, you have a much bigger relationship to Ray Fosse than I do. But speaking generally about the the announcers who add to our experience of watching games, it’s, you know, there’s been so much discussion about the idea of parasocial relationships and, you know, developing, developing a one sided relationship with people through podcasts, through media, through video, through TV, whatever it might be. And that’s basically what we have with announcers. And the best version of that is when you feel like they actually care about the people who are developing those parasocial relationships with them. They care by doing right by them, of adding to their experience by letting you get to know the players better because they get to interact with the players and that experience of being a fan and having someone who can be your conduit in your ear 162 games a year or however many games you end up watching can be such a rewarding one. And so we have to cherish the people who give us those positive memories. I mean, I think that’s why so many people had such a big relationship to Vin Scully who did it for so long and still have such a big relationship to him and he’s such a legend and that’s the case for all broadcasters who do their job, as well as Ray Fosse did so RIP.
ALEX: The the coda to this Down, uhh the the sub header to this Down is just the uhm, the the statement, the rare statement that his owner John Fisher just put out about Ray Fosse. Talking about the impact he had on his franchise, and the A’s family and the A’s. You know how he was part of the A’s legacy. To which as I say, you don’t deserve to have his name in your mouth. If you gave an ounce of care about the community that he was a part of. You would not be trying to run this team out of Oakland, sorry.
BOBBY: Well said. Uhm, all right, Alex, that does it for this week’s episode of Tipping Pitches, we will be back like I said next Wednesday, we’re working on a little bit of a midweek schedule, we might move back to our normal Monday after that, but until then, TBD. Thanks to everybody for listening. If you want to call in 785422581 you want to write in tippingpitchespod@gmail.com or @tipping_pitches on Twitter. Go ahead, throw us a throw us a review on iTunes. It’s been a little while since we got one of those usually make Alex cry out for that. But uhm I’ll do it this week. Anything else you want to leave the people with before we go?
ALEX: No, just just ahh look out for Tipping Pitches, rally towels in stores.
BOBBY: To get on that branding opportunity–
ALEX: Thank everyone.
BOBBY: –Thanks, everyone. Bye.
[1:31:30]
[Music]
[1:31:51]
[Outro]
ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Hello everybody, I’m Alex Rodriguez, Tipping Pitches, Tipping Pitches. This is the one that I love the most Tipping Pitches. So we’ll see you next week. See ya.
Transcriptionist: Vernon Bryann Casil
Editor: Krizia Marrie Casil
Tipping Pitches 
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